The Twitch and YouTube star Hasan Piker understands what pushes people to commit acts of political violence. But does that understanding tip over into appreciation? In this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross Douthat and Piker debate why Piker’s post-liberal rhetoric attracts criticism from the right (and results in the occasional platform suspension) and why Americans’ changing attitudes on Israel feed his “revolutionary optimism.”

02:14 - Life during and after Twitch
10:45 - The Hasan Piker worldview
15:57 - “Revolutionary violence”
20:13 - Is it hyperbole or incitement?
30:48 - Hasan’s Luigi Mangione coverage
41:35 - The danger in pushing taboos
51:52 - Anti-Zionist advocacy and Hasan’s Turkish background
1:08:00 - “Revolutionary optimism”

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

A full transcript of this episode is also available on the Times website.

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Illiberal Future

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