from a kind of product development point of view, I think we went through a phase at Reddit, which think a lot of startups go through, where they actually put their intuition aside and they only look at numbers. I think it's really hard, if not impossible, to run any company or system from a spreadsheet. kind of false ideal about, well, we're going to be so scientific and disciplined, put metrics on everything and test everything. But you lose some of the most important information, which is like, is it working? Is it good? How does it feel? Do I enjoy this? Do I see other people enjoying it? And so for the last couple of years, I've actually been working really hard to give the team permission to listen to their gut more. Honestly, I think the company is getting much better at it, but that has been a real piece of work over the last couple of years. No,

I couldn't agree more that it's kind of a combination of, it's kind of like combination art and science, combination of intuition and data, you know, and hitting both is what's actually, in fact, very important.

Right. Looking solely at data, I think at best you can optimize to a local maximum. To do something new, you have to have some vision for the future. And then you have to take a few swings at it. Of course, you'll be wrong along the way. But