The Importance of Focusing on Outputs, Outcomes | 2min snip from Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth

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A framework for PM skill development | Vikrama Dhiman (Gojek)

Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

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The Importance of Focusing on Outputs, Outcomes

Focusing on outputs in the initial stages of a career is crucial as it involves launching products, running experiments, or contributing to team strategies. Understanding and controlling necessary outputs lead to transitioning to outcomes, which are product areas or goals that individuals can own or collaborate on. It is common for product managers to operate solely in either output or outcomes, but transitioning to outcomes requires honing skills on outputs. Even at senior levels, it is essential not to forget the roots and components of individual contribution, as it can earn credibility within the team.

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Vikrama Dhiman heads all things product at Gojek, including product management, design, program management, and research, across Indonesia, Singapore and India. He has over 16 years of experience building internet products, consults with Fortune 500 companies, and is among the most well-known and respected product leaders in all of Asia. In our conversation, we discuss:

• The most common traits among successful product managers

• The 3 W’s framework for PM career growth

• The Four A’s of leveling up in product management

• The right way to push back as a PM

• Common pitfalls that stall PM careers

• Vikrama’s advice for transitioning into product management

• Why intent alone is not enough

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Brought to you by:

• Uizard—AI-powered prototyping for visionary product leaders

• Webflow—The web experience platform

• Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace

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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-framework-for-pm-skill-development

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Where to find Vikrama Dhiman:

• X: https://twitter.com/vikramadhiman

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vikrama/

• Website: https://www.vikramadhiman.com/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Vikrama’s background

(03:56) Three common traits among great PMs

(07:09) The first W: What you produce

(15:40) The second W: What you bring to the table

(18:58) The third W: What’s your operating model?

(20:36) Three traits that make you a great PM to work with

(21:49) How to improve the quality and quantity of your outputs

(23:26) The art of the pushback

(26:55) Common factors that impede career growth

(33:39) Vikrama’s personal reflections

(39:33) Choosing which skill(s) to focus on developing

(46:28) The ambiguity of the PM role

(51:47) The 8 axis for PM growth

(56:57) Contrarian corner: Why intent alone is not enough

(59:30) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Taxi mafias, cash vaults, and 100% MoM growth: The story behind Southeast Asia’s biggest startup | Kevin Aluwi (Gojek): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/taxi-mafias-cash-vaults-and-100-mom

• How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-hire-for-measure-and-unlock

• Gojek: https://www.gojek.com/en-id

• SQL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL

• Oracle: https://www.oracle.com/

• Crystal Widjaja on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/crystalwidjaja

• Raditya Wibowo: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raditya-wibowo-a0845436/?originalSubdomain=id

• Sidu Ponnappa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sidup

• Leveraging mentors to uplevel your career | Jules Walter (YouTube, Slack): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/leveraging-mentors-to-uplevel-your

• Kevin Aluwi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaluwi/

• Workday: https://www.workday.com/

• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

• Small Data: The Tiny Clues That Uncover Huge Trends: https://www.amazon.com/Small-Data-Clues-Uncover-Trends/dp/1250080681

• Originals: How Non-Conformists Move the World: https://www.amazon.com/Originals-How-Non-Conformists-Move-World/dp/014312885X

• Thinking, Fast and Slow: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-Kahneman/dp/0374533555

• Miss Congeniality on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Miss-Congeniality-Sandra-Bullock/dp/B002R5HQDK

• Schitt’s Creek on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Schitts-Creek/dp/B083LDRW9F

• DramaBox: https://www.dramaboxapp.com/

• Am I Overthinking This?: Over-Answering Life’s Questions in 101 Charts: https://www.amazon.com/Am-Overthinking-This-Over-answering-questions/dp/1452175861/

• Crazy Rich Asians on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Crazy-Rich-Asians-Constance-Wu/dp/B07JGJFXBF

• 9 Best Hawker Centers in Singapore—and What to Eat There: https://www.afar.com/magazine/best-hawker-centers-in-singapore-and-what-to-eat-there

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

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