A finite game is a win-lose game where the goal is to optimize within the boundaries of the game and end the game by winning. An infinite game aims to continue playing indefinitely, including as many people as possible. It aligns with the modern Western democratic project, focusing on fostering innovation, creating safety nets, providing education, and lifting people up. However, in practice, the ideal may be disrupted by rent-seeking behaviors and individuals attempting to manipulate outcomes.
In today's episode I chat with one of my favourite thinkers and writers: Jamie Wheal. I got to know Jamie through our mutual interest in, well, the hot mess that our civilization seems to be going through, and I knew he'd make a great guest for Win-Win because he's one of those rare folks who can combine both intellectual rigor and a deep love for physicality and nature. So as well as discussing game theory and the meaning crisis and all that good stuff, we also get into his discoveries studying human "flow states" - he's the co-founder of the Flow Genome Project, as well as the author of the bestselling books Stealing Fire and Recapture the Rapture. If you enjoy this episode, I highly recommend you check out his blog linked below.
Chapters
00:00:00 - Intro
00:01:30 - Childhood Games
00:03:23 - Flow States
00:18:24 - Flow Genome Project
00:23:27 - The Meaning Crisis
00:32:00 - Moloch
00:36:12 - Seeking Win-Win Games
00:48:51 - AI Concerns and Risks
00:53:24 - Protecting oneself from cynicism
01:12:51 - Fostering Community
01:15:16 - Book Recommendations
01:19:40 - The Goal of the Cosmic Game
Links
♾️ Jamie Wheal’s Substack https://jamiewheal.substack.com/
♾️ Stealing Fire by Jamie Wheal
https://www.harpercollins.com/products/stealing-fire-steven-kotlerjamie-wheal?variant=32121993101346
♾️ Recapture the Rapture by Jamie Wheal
https://www.recapturetherapture.com/
♾️ Flow Genome Project
https://www.flowgenomeproject.com/
♾️ Group Flow
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6312318/
♾️ Bob Kegan
https://www.gse.harvard.edu/directory/faculty/robert-kegan
♾️ Finite and Infinite Games by James Carse
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/189989
♾️ Problems with Externalities and Capitalism - Substack
♾️ Bittersweet by Susan Cain
https://susancain.net/book/bittersweet/
♾️ Dawn of Everything by David Graeber
https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374157357/thedawnofeverything
♾️ Sand Talk by Tyson Yunkaporta https://www.harpercollins.com/products/sand-talk-tyson-yunkaporta?variant=32280908103714
♾️ John Lilly Wikipedia Page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Lilly
The Win-Win Podcast: Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, athletes and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose games into Win-Wins.
Credits
Hosted by Liv Boeree
Produced & Edited by Raymond Wei
Audio Mix by Keir Schmidt
