#565: Michael Schur, Creator of “The Good Place” — How SNL Trains Writers, His TV University at “The Office,” Lessons from Lorne Michaels, Wisdom from David Foster Wallace, and Exploring Moral Philosophy with “How to Be Perfect”
The Tim Ferriss Show
Understanding Character Development over Jokes
The key lesson was that writing was not just about making jokes, as jokes were considered easy. The focus was on understanding the characters, their motivations, and the circumstances leading to their actions. It was about delving deeper into why a character behaves in a certain way and their traits, rather than just creating punchlines. This approach aimed to create authentic and compelling storytelling by exploring the reasons and emotions behind each character's actions.
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Michael Schur (@KenTremendous) created the critically acclaimed NBC comedy The Good Place and co-created Parks and Recreation, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, and the Peacock series Rutherford Falls. He is also an executive producer on HBO Max’s Hacks and Netflix’s Master of None.
Prior to “Parks,” Michael spent four years as a writer-producer on the Emmy Award-winning NBC hit The Office. His first TV writing job was at Saturday Night Live, where he spent seven seasons, including three as the producer of “Weekend Update” with Tina Fey and Jimmy Fallon.
Michael’s new book is How to Be Perfect: The Correct Answer to Every Moral Question.
Please enjoy!
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How did Michael get involved with The Harvard Lampoon, and what did the audition process look like? How was the writing process different during his time there than it might be in a comparable publication today? [05:58]
How performing live comedy is like Roman gladiator combat, and what Michael learned during his seven seasons as a writer for Saturday Night Live. [12:53]
Michael shares his David Foster Wallace story, and his own thoughts about adapting Infinite Jest into a miniseries. [20:03]
Why did Michael decide to leave SNL and continue his career in Los Angeles? How did he wind up writing for the US adaptation of The Office in spite of being unsure that such an adaptation was even a good idea? [31:10]
Why does Michael consider the opportunity to work with The Office showrunner Greg Daniels “the greatest stroke of good fortune” that’s ever befallen him? What did he learn from the experience that SNL didn’t teach him? [39:12]
What is the F = ma of sitcom writing, and how did this play into character development on The Office? [44:35]
If Michael’s house were burning down and he only had time to rescue five things, what would they be? [53:20]
How did Michael become a rare book collector? [57:45]
Where did Michael’s alter ego of Ken Tremendous (and Fremulon, his equally fictitious place of employment) originate? [1:01:13]
With television networks often skittish about deviating from proven formulas, how did a show as unique as The Good Place come about? [1:08:10]
How the seed of the idea that became The Good Place was planted by an outrageous car repair bill. [1:16:15]
Michael once joked that he would love How to Be Perfect to do for moral philosophy what A Brief History of Time did for astrophysics. If that’s a tall order, what would he consider an acceptable takeaway for its readers? [1:27:58]
What qualifies the legitimacy of a philosopher? Is it when they can get people to actually read (and understand) their work? [1:32:58]
If Michael could have a drink or dinner with any philosopher, living or dead, who would he choose? [1:39:53]
What two philosophers would Michael choose to have on speed dial for his own personal instruction? [1:43:36]
What comics in my own collection do I most treasure? What kind of D&D characters did I tend to play in my youth? [1:49:11]
Michael’s most worthwhile failures (and one recurring failure that still gives him nightmares). [1:51:17]
Michael is sorry if his billboard offends you. [2:01:28]
Who are Todd May and Pamela Hieronymi, and how did they become The Good Place writers’ room emergency contacts? [2:06:00]
Why Michael encourages us all to get educated about ethics by any means comfortable (and if that includes reading How to Be Perfect, so be it) where the proceeds of book sales will be directed, and other parting thoughts. [2:10:12]
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