My guest today is Nora Bateson. Nora is an award-winning filmmaker, research designer, writer, educator, international lecturer, as well as President of the International Bateson Institute based in Sweden. She’s also the creator of the Warm Data theory and practices.

Nora’s work brings the fields of biology, cognition, art, anthropology, psychology, and information technology together into a study of the patterns in ecology of living systems. Her work asks the question “How can we improve our perception of the complexity we live within, so we may improve our interaction with the world?”

Nora has written two absolutely beautiful, thought provoking books, Small Arcs of Larger Circles and her latest book, Combining, where Nora challenges conventional fixes for our problems, highlighting the need to tackle issues at multiple levels, understand interdependence, and embrace ambiguity. 

Nora and I talk about double binds, which in some cases are similar to multipolar traps or predicaments that feel impossible to get out of, what we might call “lose, lose” situations. Nora says in these situations, the question becomes, “How do we move with our predicament in a way that allows movement?”

And so we discuss how we cannot solve our current global challenges or the metacrisis with direct correctives. Nora says you don’t meet something head on, you meet it around, you meet it within, you meet it totally. In ecological systems nothing is happening one thing at a time. There’s not A solution to A problem.

We also discuss that while we can point to aspects of the metacrisis with language and statistics and measurements, that the real issues are insidious and underground and in our baseline presumptions of our understanding of what life is.

I absolutely LOVED this conversation and I hope you do too.

Nora Bateson’s Links & Resources:

International Bateson Institute

https://batesoninstitute.org/

Warm Data Host Training (Next in-person training Feb 19th-26th 2024 in Singapore)

Books:

Small Arcs of Larger Circles by Nora Bateson

Combining by Nora Bateson

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Entangled World explores the interrelated, existential social, economic, ecological, and technological risks we face, their underlying drivers, and how a more beautiful world might emerge. 

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