Apptivate: App Marketing Explained

Alexa Wieczorek is the Growth Marketing Manager for Electronic Arts (EA). Previous to EA, Alexa was the Growth Marketing Analyst at DraftKings, and a Data Analyst at Glu Mobile. She is based in San Francisco.Questions Alexa Answered in this Episode:Do you have any thoughts on why EA, one of the largest game developers in the world, had not made any significant investments in DSP as part of their strategy until you joined?Why do you think it is important to be investing in the programmatic landscape? What are some of the advantages?What more data do you get from a DSP?What do you find yourself gravitating more towards: the self-service or the Bidder-as-a-Service as a managed service?You mentioned that DSPs that offer creative services can be more appealing. Is there anything else when you’re looking at DSPs that really matters? When you’re vetting DSPs, what are you looking out for?Have you found that most programmatic partners have been ready for the challenges presented by the ATT prompt and the lack of access to the IDFA? Are you confident that DSPs are doing the right thing?Timestamp:6:17 Alexa’s professional background9:46 Barriers to investing in DSP11:05 Advantages of a DSP11:56 The data you get from a DSP13:21 What you’re in for with managing DSPs15:05 Self-service or Bidder-as-a-Service19:15 Vetting managed DSPs21:41 Shifts in what DSPs are offering22:45 Tackling ATT and IDFA changesQuotes:(13:34-13:45) “I think it comes down to two things: a lack of understanding and I think it’s a lack of resourcing because going through a managed DSP is a lot more hands-on than a lot of Facebook or Google campaign management is.”(15:15-15:34) “The self-service option can be a little more cost-effective. The fees are a lot lower and they’re transparent. Whereas depending on the manager service partner, the fees aren’t always transparent. So I think that when you’re spending at a certain level of scale it makes sense. But if you don’t have the internal support, or you’re a smaller company, I think managed services are a great option.”(21:59-22:18) “I think that’s why a lot of people are moving toward a self-service or an in-house approach. I think also just being transparent about the data is important. All the DSPs don’t share exchange and publisher-level reporting, just to some degree. So I think working with a DSP that will share that level of data with you is also super important.”Mentioned in this Episode:Alexa Wieczorek’s LinkedInElectronic Arts

Questions Erin Answered in this Episode:What was the transition like from director to VP?How did you become comfortable with not having all the answers and being a little vulnerable?What is it that you’re doing every day for yourself so you can be the person and leader you need to be? What are some of those non-negotiables for you?Tell us about your career journey.What’s the worst advice you’ve received in your career?How do we encourage women to feel more confident in speaking up?What do you go to for inspiration?Timestamp:1:14 About Lose It! and Erin4:25 Stepping into the VP role during Covid7:38 Not having the answers9:15 Perspective from peers12:00 Working with an executive coach14:00 Non-negotiable self-care habits18:11 Erin’s career journey26:45 The worst advice Erin’s gotten29:02 Hacks for speaking up32:30 Sources of inspirationQuotes:(8:27-8:45) “Getting really inquisitive. Trying to be more of a coach and not a manager, and create space for the team to do their job. I realized over the last year, that’s what I should have been focused on instead of trying to understand everything that I needed to know as part of this job.”(11:03-11:20) “That notion of confidence and uncertainty, I think of it as, ‘I’m confident that we’ll find the answers. I’m confident that we’ll be able to solve this problem. I don’t know how we’re going to get there, but I believe in the team or I believe in my ability or whoever to get us to the place that we need to go.’”(13:02-13:25) “The whole mindset of this coaching program is that people will become better leaders when they’re more in tune with themselves, essentially. When you know who you are as your person, your authentic self with a capital ‘S,’ you’re more likely to show up in a way that’s authentic to you and to be a leader that people can believe in and follow and they want to work for.”Mentioned in this Episode:Erin Webster-Shaller’s LinkedInLose It!erin@loseit.comHarvard Business Review - Leadership E-NewsletterHBR Women at Work PodcastThe Skimm

Diane Le is the Senior Growth Marketer at Curtsy, a thrifting app for buying and selling women’s clothing. Diane’s specialty is scaling emerging channels like TikTok and Snapchat. Previous to Curtsy, Diane was a growth marketing consultant at Right Side Up. Questions Diane Answered in this Episode:What job experience do you think was most influential to your career? Are you still in performance marketing today? How have you felt during this period of privacy changes? You mentioned reverting back to old strategies. What does that look like for your team at Curtsy?Do you still buy media on a platform like Facebook and Instagram? Have you seen your media mix within these social channels change dramatically as a result of the privacy changes? Has it been challenging for you as a performance marketer to shift to this new mentality of mobile marketing, or has it been eye-opening or refreshing to you? Does this make you more meticulous in where you decide to spend your ad dollars? What do you spend your day focusing on?Timestamp:4:34 Diane’s background10:07 What is performance marketing today?12:06 Diane’s revamped strategy for app marketing15:42 Measuring aggregate performance over time19:22 Investing ad dollars in the right channels23:28 Tapping into existing, loyal users for content25:56 Cracking emerging social channelsQuotes:(11:20-11:42) “I think at this stage we’re kind of in the Wild Wild West of growth marketing. We’ve kind of reverted back to the olden days where we really just need to take a step back and get all of the learnings just because the historical data doesn’t count anymore. You can look back at your yearly metrics, but what are we going to learn from that at this point? So this is like year-one and then we’ve got to continue learning and move on from that.”(17:12-17:33) “Look at the holistic growth numbers, like where are we trending? Because we don’t have granular data anymore, we can’t afford to just get in the weeds like that and optimize based on A, B, CTA, things like that. We really have to take a step back. But I think integrating brand campaigns with performance, you should effectively see that growth.”(22:20-22:32) “Now advertisers need to really get creative. Can you incorporate your brand message in a TikTok dance? Can you leverage a trending song? Are you picking the right influencers?”Mentioned in this Episode:Diane Le’s LinkedInCurtsy App

Anna Yukhtenko is the Senior Games Analyst at Hutch, a mobile gaming developer and publisher known for its racing games. Previous to Hutch, Anna was a marketing analyst at Next Games. She is based in London.Questions Anna Answered in this Episode:When you were in university did you have an idea of what you wanted to do?Were you a gamer prior to joining Next Games?Why do you find game analytics more interesting than marketing analytics?Where do you find yourself spending the most time as it’s related to gameplay or game analytics?Is intuition a part of your strategy or is it really all data-driven?How do you make data and your explanations of data accessible to those who are not necessarily data savvy?What tools do you use for data analysis most often?Timestamp:4:03 Anna’s background7:20 The advantage of being a non-gamer8:41 Why Anna loves game analytics10:50 What to analyze14:45 Making data analysis accessible to team members16:45 How to make data easy to understand21:53 The best data presentations23:03 Memes27:26 Data analysis tools and applicationsQuotes:(15:15-15:28) “When it comes to presenting the numbers and the data to people who are not analysts or who are not working in the data, I would say that it’s part of an analyst’s job to make your analysis accessible, to make your analysis readable.”(19:21-19:24) “The job of an analyst and the point of data is to tell a story.”(10:52-11:03) “As a game analyst, quite frankly I feel the most efficient way is for game analysts to work in sprints with the game team. So basically, you’re there with them and you’re following the development of the game.”Mentioned in this Episode:Anna Yukhtenko’s LinkedInHutch

Arthur Cordier-Lassalle is the Creative Lead at Voodoo, a mobile gaming studio specializing in hyper-casual games. Previous to Voodoo, Arthur was a UI/Motion designer for Emissive. He is based in Paris.Questions Arthur Cordier-Lassalle Answered in this Episode:What does your day-to-day look like creating ads for Voodoo? How big is your team?What is the underlying theme that drives your creative approach?What’s weird is relative. Talk to me about how you arrive at these creative concepts.What was a successful ad you had achieving humor?What’s the life expectancy for a successful creative ad, like the one you described?When you’re iterating, how are the concepts that you’re focusing on?What has you excited about the future of creatives within Voodoo?Timestamp:1:29 A little about Voodoo3:08 Arthur’s background5:57 Creating ads for Voodoo games7:53 Balancing what works with the unusual9:33 Why “shock” isn’t a great strategy10:02 How humor can work17:25 Shelf life of creatives18:04 Identifying what to iterate on19:00 What’s to comeQuotes:(7:53-8:15) “What we like to do is first, keeping the balance between what we know is performing well and what new stuff we can do. My shtick with this is trying to find a daring creative, something that is going to stop the user in his track and have a moment of ‘What the fuck am I looking at?’”(15:55-16:07) “We kind of have a saying that is ‘we don’t know what works, so we just test.’ We don’t have anybody that says, ‘Okay, this is not going to work, don’t do it.’ We ultimately just rely on data.”Mentioned in this Episode:Arthur Cordier-Lassalle’s LinkedInVoodooDraw Climber

Josh joined M&C Saatchi Performance in early 2021 to head up their Client Services and Planning teams. Josh has over 12+ years in media working both in London and in New York specializing in Media Strategy and Planning. Outside of work, Josh is an avid fitness enthusiast and even launched a workout happy hour program during his time at Group M. Josh is also planning on running the NYC Marathon this year.Questions Josh Answered in this Episode:What podcasts do you listen to?What is the perception your partners have about podcasts as a performance strategy?When is appropriate for a marketer to consider podcast advertising?How do you figure out if a podcast has your audience or not?How are podcasts priced?How is measurement executed? Is it sufficient in its current form, or where do you think it’s going?Do you see a future in which marketers across the board will start leveraging podcasts?Timestamp:6:30 Josh’s background10:40 Planning and Client Services16:10 Client attitudes on podcasts18:45 When are podcast ads the right fit21:42 Deciphering the audience of a podcast26:01 Leveraging audio creative29:39 Performance metrics for podcast ads34:22 Josh’s forecast of audio adsQuotes:(11:50-12:06) “You can read and read data over and over, but if you can't then turn that into a strategy or go, ‘How am I going to use that to execute my media plan,’ that can be a really big challenge. And I think that’s what we pride ourselves on at this agency, is being able to combine those two to tell compelling stories for our clients.”(35:57-36:12) “Smart speakers are going to grow this podcast industry in the next few years because people’s behaviors are now changing. People feel more comfortable saying to Alexa, ‘Alexa, buy me this,’ or, ‘Alexa, can you find me this?’ And so as that becomes more the norm, this is where audio is going to play a really strong position in that.” Mentioned in this Episode:Josh BrooksM&C Saatchi Performance

Pan Katsukis is a Berlin-based serial entrepreneur serving as CEO and Co-Founder of Remerge, a leading programmatic app marketing platform. Before starting Remerge in 2014, Pan co-founded a European mobile ad network, madvertise in 2008.  Questions Pan Answered in this Episode:Why did you launch Remerge? When did you become aware of the retention problem and the opportunity to provide a solution?Typically, CEOs have to have a lot of conversations that they’re not willing to share with their employees. Are you saying that everything that you know about you’re willing to share with your team?What change do you think marketers will have the hardest time adapting to as it’s related to the privacy era?Why is iOS an opportunity for marketers today?When do you expect the market to stabilize as it’s related to no-id marketing? When do you expect marketers to feel more comfortable buying that 60% cheaper traffic to the point where it starts shifting to more expensive rates?Is retargeting still a strategy that marketers are leveraging?Is there a future in which the available inventory of IDs on iOS decreases, or do you think we’re at a point where it’s become saturated?The market is changing as a result of privacy changes. Why do you think we’re seeing a lot of businesses consolidate? What’s your take on what’s going on?What does consolidation do to open bidding? Is there an advantage to staying independent?What are you excited about for the future?Timestamp:3:16 Pan’s background5:25 Culture: The impetus for Remerge9:20 Modeling openness and transparency12:40 Adapting to SKAdNetwork15:42 The opportunity of iOS15 for marketers21:03 Why retargeting will stick around24:53 The drivers of the app market consolidation29:20 Strengths in staying independent34:08 Why Pan’s excited about the future of RemergeQuotes:(13:57-14:12) “I think the opportunity is big. Even if you have this inventory, this audience which is very valuable of iOS users who are using the newest version, you can’t simply stop spending on iOS. You want to tap into the audiences and address them.”(29:28-29:54) “Whether you’re independent or not independent, I think it doesn’t matter so much. It all comes to the mission and why you’re in the market. What’s the purpose? What do you want to solve? What do you want to achieve? What kind of mission are you on? Being independent and having a very clear mission and focused perspective on how to address market needs helps you obviously to execute towards that goal.”Mentioned in this Episode:Pan Katsukis’s LinkedInRemerge’s openly available dashboard for app marketersRemerge Careers

Suresh Pillai is a theoretical physicist by training and the Vice President of Data at Beat. Beat is an information and technology services company that created a ride-hailing and taxi mobile app. Beat claims to be the fastest growing app in Latin America (p.s. they’re hiring).Questions Suresh Answered in this Episode:How do you approach mobile data science from your theoretical physics perspective?How have you used uplift modeling or incrementality?Define propensity in the context of uplift modeling.Can you explain in more detail the marketing settings you never turn off?What is the difference between how people use uplift modeling, incrementally, and other causal machine learning?Do you have any tips for people to make sense of attribution in the complex setting of multi-touch marketing?We’re losing unique identifiers for users with the change to iOS14. What does this change for you? Has it been a problem? And do you think there’s a role for marketing mix models here?What are the most interesting insights you’ve seen from incrementality models? What really surprised you? What changed your view on how customers are acting?Timestamp:0:41 Suresh’s background & complexity science2:14 A physicist’s view of complex systems in mobile data science5:03 The granularity of incrementality and uplift modeling6:05 Sure things, persuadables, lost causes, and sleeping dogs11:31 Uplift modeling when there is no baseline13:31 Uplift vs causal vs attribution models16:48 What people get wrong with multi-touch attribution25:44 Dealing with the challenge of the iOS14 update27:50 The role of marketing mix modeling33:51 Validation: Engaging customers after conversionQuotes:(2:25-2:52) “When you’re thinking about any system, especially a complex system, and you’re given a problem, you need to decide which level of granularity you choose to model and understand that system. So different levels enable different insights, but it’s also a practical thing. If it’s a really complex system it may be too much to understand at the atomic level. What I say is you can’t predict anything at the atomic level because there’s too much going on. And we know this in physics, too.”(24:23-24:35) “When I come to a website, I don’t care what channel I came through. I don’t think about it consciously. There’s no reason to organize how you measure incrementality based on channels. Channels don’t exist. Customers exist.”Mentioned in this Episode:Suresh Pillai’s LinkedInBeat (Psst Beat is hiring)

Adrienne Rice is an Associate Director at the performance marketing agency, M&C Saatchi Performance. She manages user acquisition and re-engagement campaigns for multiple Amazon-owned apps, including Amazon Shopping, Zappos, and Amazon Kids+.Questions Adrienne Answered in this Episode:What are some deal-breakers or tactics that have helped your work-life balance and prevented burnout?What’s the first thing you do when you close your computer? Do you have some sort of routine?How do you help others on your team that you are leading avoid burnout?What is a leadership lesson that you’ve learned through your career that you’ve been able to go back to time and time again?How have you been able to turn a challenging career experience into a positive?What advice would you give to women who are just starting their careers in mobile?How do you encourage others to stay involved in meetings?Timestamp:1:14 Adrienne’s background7:05 A day working around the world8:40 Preventing agency burnout12:41 The gift of feedback16:30 Shooting for jobs we think we’re “unqualified” for19:44 Advice for others beginning their careers23:28 Sources of inspirationQuotes:(12:41-13:02) “I think one of my most valuable lessons is that feedback is a gift. And to me that means that anytime someone’s giving you feedback, whether that’s criticism or positive feedback, that’s really valuable and that’s really something you should want to get.”(19:52-20:16) “Take it all in, work really hard, learn everything you possibly can, and have a positive attitude because that really does take you far. People want to work with people that are pleasant and positive and enthusiastic. Even if you don’t have the best set of skills or you’re struggling in some things, if you just stay positive, people will want to help you and want to keep working with you.”Mentioned in this Episode:Adrienne Rice’s LinkedInM&C Saatchi PerformanceBook: The Making of a Manager by Julie ZhuoFilm: This Changes Everything

Abdala Pineda is the Chief Growth Officer at Fondeadora. Fondeadora is a digital banking services company based in Mexico City that aims to eliminate the inefficiencies related to the traditional banking system.Questions Abdala Answered in this Episode:What is Mexico City’s tech scene like?When did your realization about growth come to you in your career trajectory?Tell me about Fondeadora. What are you working on today and what’s that experience been like?What’s the importance of tracking and how do you go about it in the context of a fintech app?Timestamp:5:17 Abdala’s background6:50 Rocket internet strategy defined10:20 The beginning of Fondeadora14:30 Abdala’s concept of growth17:00 Abdala’s launch into performance marketing22:12 Fondeadora’s hyper growth26:50 How to build an event tracking plan for growth29:30 Criteria for an event worthy of tracking34:24 Mexico’s first metal debit cardQuotes:(14:41-15:25) “At least for me, growth is essentially the understanding of the business’s equation. Every single business, regardless of whatever it is that you’re selling, you’re doing, you’re delivering, every single business has a business equation. Has an equation on which on the left side you’ve got the variable that you want to maximize, that you essentially want to grow; and on the right side you’ve got all the other variables that describe your company. Some of those variables are in turn made of sub-variables. And the job of the growth team, at least in my eyes, is essentially to try and understand as many of those variables and how is it that you can, not only affect them per se, but also how is it that each of those variables is correlated with each other. Because for growth, the only way is not only up per se.”(23:05-23:20) “From my point-of-view, we should not be thinking about what the next campaign is going to say. We should be thinking as to what are the user behaviors that we’re seeing in our user base, and which of those behaviors can actually turn into habits.”Mentioned in this Episode:Abdala Pineda’s LinkedInFondeadora