Apptivate: App Marketing Explained

Jyoti Pannu, Product Manager at Booking.com, shares how AI is transforming the way travelers discover, plan, and book their next adventure. From AI trip planners that surface new possibilities to the integration of GenAI and ChatGPT into the core product, Jyoti explains why travel discovery is moving beyond simple search, how user intent is now mapped through nuanced signals, and what the rise of LLMs means for attribution, retention, and the future of app UX. She also dives into cross-vertical product lessons, balancing novelty and personalization, and offers advice for elevating women in product management.Questions addressed in this episode:What is Booking.com, and what does Jyoti’s role cover?How is AI being used at Booking.com beyond chatbots and content generation?What does intent-based and natural language discovery look like in practice?How is the app experience changing with AI-driven trip planners and smart filters?How does Booking.com balance user personalization and novelty in recommendations?How do LLM-based discovery channels affect paid UA and retargeting strategies?What guardrails and metrics are important for launching new AI features?What lessons cross over from fintech, e-commerce, and travel in app retention?How should product teams think about post-purchase and post-trip experience?What advice does Jyoti have for women building a career in product and tech?Timestamps:(0:03) – Jyoti’s role at Booking.com and scope of the app(1:39) – AI trip planners and intent-driven product development(3:17) – Smart filters and natural language input for hotel discovery(4:03) – How Booking.com infers trip purpose and personalizes UX(6:09) – LLMs, ChatGPT, and new search/discovery interfaces(8:13) – Attribution, channel mix, and UA economics in an AI-first world(11:01) – Avoiding the filter bubble in travel recommendations(13:41) – Booking.com plugins and booking via ChatGPT(15:41) – Cross-vertical product lessons from e-commerce, fintech, and travel(17:58) – Brand omnipresence, loyalty, and retention(19:04) – Emotional stakes and UX in travel vs. transactional apps(21:37) – Post-trip and post-purchase: product touchpoints(22:50) – Testing AI features for retention and quality(24:24) – Guardrails, review, and data governance(25:29) – Elevating women in product and leadership(27:50) – Rapid-fire: travel, career, life, and favorite placesQuotes:(3:35) “We have an option for users called smart filters, where they can make searches in the form of natural language, like how you would interact with a human. We map this in our systems to provide personalized results for these users.”(17:00) “If a user has interacted with our platform and they have made a purchase from two different categories, they are more likely to become a high value customer than someone who has bought multiple times in the same category.”Mentioned in This Episode:Jyoti Pannu on LinkedInBooking.com

Lenny Rabin, founder of direct advertising group Brown Boots and their reward app platform GoKart, joins Taylor Lobdell to dissect the evolution of rewarded user acquisition, focusing on how direct publisher-advertiser relationships can solve long-standing industry inefficiencies. Rabin, with over a decade in rewarded traffic and ad tech, explains why most publishers dislike third-party monetization platforms, how custom tech stacks like GoKart enable deeper, more transparent deals, and what both advertisers and publishers must do to thrive in an increasingly mainstream and competitive rewards ecosystem. This episode tracks the practical realities of running direct-sold inventory at scale, dives into shifts in audience intent (from GPT sites to fintechs), and breaks down why most campaigns fail. Rabin also shares founder lessons for building in ad tech without an engineering background.Questions addressed in this episode:What’s the origin story behind Brown Boots and Go-Kart?Why do most publishers dislike monetizing via third-party networks?What core problems do direct publisher-advertiser relationships solve that networks can’t?What are the unique challenges in building a tech stack for rewarded offers?How does Go-Kart’s programmatic model differ from legacy platforms?Who is the ideal client for Brown Boots vs. Go-Kart?What major changes has Rabin seen in rewarded marketing over 15 years?How do publisher audiences shape campaign strategy and outcomes?What retention and LTV signals matter most for performance marketers?What timeline is realistic for testing new rewarded channels?Where do most advertisers and publishers fail in UA campaign collaboration?What’s Rabin’s advice for ad tech founders without a technical background?Timestamps:(0:04) – Intro and Lenny’s background(0:27) – Brown Boots & Go-Kart origin story(1:55) – Direct publisher-advertiser relationships explained(3:22) – Building custom tech for publishers(5:20) – Ideal customer for Brown Boots and Go-Kart(6:30) – Fintech, UA, and why rewarded offers are growing(9:00) - What has changed the most in rewarded traffic acquisition(11:15) – How intent differs between GPT sites and fintech audiences(13:05) - How does that change the value proposition for app marketers(13:45) – Advertiser mistakes: not understanding publisher audiences(15:06) – How long to test new channels; why 90 days matters(16:46) – The retention metric and why it drives value(17:46) – Go-Kart’s programmatic disruption(18:18) – Why last-mile delivery in rewarded UA is broken(21:00) – The tech stack vision: features, flexibility, and future(27:00) – Lessons in building ad tech as a non-engineer(35:00) - Rapid fire roundQuotes:(1:05) "Publishers wanted less opaqueness in the revenues that they were making and also deeper partnerships with the advertisers."(5:00) "Rewarded traffic is a medium which continues to grow and is becoming more mainstream."(6:46) "Any app that has a core product offering not related to rewarded marketing and has a rewarding mechanism is a good target."(11:29) "On a GPT site, users come to the site specifically to earn rewards... Your quality of your user is inherently low."(13:55) "Every publisher will have a specific and unique audience and catering the campaign specifically to that audience is a big miss."(21:55) "Let's not be spending our time dealing with data loss and dealing with small decisions. Let's spend our time talking about how we create custom campaigns."Mentioned in this episode:Brown BootsLenny on LinkedinGoKart

In this insightful discussion, guests share their expertise on app marketing strategies for 2025. Andre Kempe examines the balance between AI efficiency and human creativity in ad production. Luca Stefanutti reveals how experimentation drives user retention at Adidas, while Advi Bishnoi emphasizes the importance of community-driven strategies. Sue Azari outlines tactics for e-commerce during Q5, focusing on loyalty and remarketing. Shilpa Reddy discusses leveraging podcasts to build brand trust and validate LTV investments, showcasing diverse paths to engagement and growth.

Lisanne Vera, VP of Growth at KashKick, joins Taylor Lobdell to talk about the incentives economy, a marketplace where leisure becomes an asset. From her early affiliate-marketing roots to leading growth at one of the fastest-growing rewards apps, Lisanne unpacks how KashKick designs offers that respect user time, prevent bait-and-switch dynamics, and build long-term trust. She discusses how micro-earnings sustain engagement, why transparency matters more than flashy payouts, and why being relentlessly user-focused, even at the cost of short-term ROAS, can drive the strongest growth stories in mobile today.Key Topics and QuestionsMonetizing leisure time as engagement, how to align offers with user habits.Micro vs. large payouts: why early small rewards matter more for retention.Identifying drop-off, how can you spot value mismatches at first action, not D7.Trust and expectation: showing average, attainable outcomes, not edge cases.Marketplace curation to add only offers users already want, not random buys.User and advertiser transparency for clear education, ratings, and funnel data.Which social platforms are delivering the most reliable new users?How to design for seasoned rewards users versus newcomers.What steps help marketers adapt when retargeting and paid attribution get harder?Why value energy and attitude over traditional credentials when building a team?Which user-focused investments have delivered the clearest returns in long-term retention or brand strength?Timestamps(0:00) – Intro and Lisanne’s background in affiliate marketing(2:04) – What KashKick is and how the marketplace works(2:21) – Treating leisure time as a market asset(3:00) – User-first campaign design and offer selection(3:37) – Why genuine interest matters more than payout size(5:29) – Designing offers that respect user time(5:48) – How micro-rewards sustain engagement(7:04) – Balancing small wins with big payout motivation(8:01) – Measuring engagement versus pure volume(8:58) – How KashKick incentivizes fintech and charity actions(11:12) – Building trust through transparency and education(13:03) – Giving partners visibility and fraud prevention(14:09) – Why affiliates and content creators still work(15:40) – Push, email, and the next wave of engagement(16:35) – Playing the long game with user-first growth(18:09) – What Lisanne looks for in new hires(19:00) – Advice for junior marketers(22:16) – Ocala travel tips and hidden springsSelected quotes(3:45) – “If the user isn’t genuinely interested, no incentive will change that. You can offer six hundred dollars, but if it’s not relevant, they won’t do it.”(5:48) – “We give people rewards along the way, micro-earnings that make their time feel valued. Small wins keep users engaged.”(11:44) – “We tell users exactly how tracking works and why we need it. Transparency builds trust, and that’s what keeps them coming back.”Mentioned in this episodeLisanne Vera on LinkedinKashKick app

It’s often said that for e-commerce brands, the holiday season is the 5th quarter of the year. Sue Azari, e-commerce industry lead at AppsFlyer, joins Taylor Lobdell for a tactical breakdown of how the smartest e-commerce apps move from Q4 user acquisition to Q5 retention and remarketing. From UK and EMEA trends to global shifts in spend, Sue details why remarketing spend surges fivefold at the end of the year, how loyalty and personalization schemes actually drive a second purchase, and what makes non-organic installs disproportionately valuable for real app revenue. Referencing real examples from brands like Zara, H&M, Temu, and Shein, Sue lays out the structural shifts, practical tactics, and emerging risks facing every marketer trying to build durable, app-based revenue in a volatile global market.Key topics and questionsThe in-house consultant role at AppsFlyer and its cross-functional focusHow the UK’s mature e-commerce market shapes global strategiesWhy Q5 matters, and how its install/revenue spike emergedWhen and why remarketing eclipses UA spendTactics for turning a Q4 buyer into a repeat customer in Q5Personalization, loyalty, and exclusive drops to drive frequencyUGC, influencer content, and AI tools for creative ideationWhat e-commerce needs to steal from gaming’s diversified media mixWhy DSPs and Reddit remain underused in e-commercePaid–organic uplift: why half of installs deliver three-quarters of revenueHow to respond to high December CPMs and new market entrantsThe 70-20-10 rule for channel testingGlobal UA patterns: Android vs iOS, tariffs, rapid spend reallocationQR codes, in-store modes, and the app as a bridge to physical retailSegmentation: why abandon basket and uninstalled users matter mostStaying current in a market defined by privacy shifts and macro volatilityTimestamps(0:03) – Intro, Sue’s cross-functional role and background(1:11) – UK and EMEA, market maturity, lessons, and cross-region strategy(2:52) – Defining Q5, why end-of-year cycles matter for apps and travel(4:10) – Black Friday: remarketing spend is five times UA at peak(5:03) – Tactics: loyalty, personalization, and getting to the second purchase(6:12) – Creative best practices, UGC, influencers, and new AI tools(7:02) – Diversifying media, DSPs, app-to-app installs, and what e-commerce misses(7:55) – Community and AI as emerging channels(9:13) – Paid–organic uplift, nearly three-quarters of revenue is non-organic(10:38) – Coping with high CPMs, moving spend, leaning on owned media(11:43) – Testing new channels; the 70-20-10 rule for risk(13:47) – Regional differences in UA: China, tariffs, and aggressive spend moves(17:00) – How Sue tracks trends, privacy changes, and new industry moves(17:32) – Temu/Shein: billion-dollar UA, loyalty pivots, and physical store expansions(19:42) – QR codes, attribution, and bridging digital and physical with apps(20:51) – Retargeting segments: abandon basket and uninstalled users(21:46) – Lightning round: favorite channels, brands, tactics, and London recommendationsSelected quotes(4:13) – “When we look at spend, remarketing spend is five times that of UA for e-commerce apps during the end of Q4.”(10:06) – “Nearly three quarters of purchase revenue comes from non-organic sources. Users are much more likely to buy something if they’ve been driven to the app by a particular marketing campaign.”(21:01) – “Abandoned baskets are my primary focus for remarketing, because 70% of users who install an e-commerce app will abandon their basket. The other one that I think is not as commonly done, but I think it’s very valuable, is remarketing to uninstalled users.”Mentioned in this episodeAppsFlyerSue Azari on Linkedin

James Dickins, Team Lead of Technical Support at Gamelight, joins Taylor Lobdell to discuss how rewarded UA and behavioral targeting shape user acquisition in 2025’s privacy-first landscape. From the company’s laser-eyed cat mascot to the mechanics of lookalike models, James explains how his team balances precision with ethics and how algorithms are trained on aggregated behavior data. He also discusses creative testing and when human intuition should override machine logic. He breaks down the real limits of automation, why model decay demands constant retraining, and how to build campaigns that adapt as fast as user behavior changes.Questions that James answered in this episode:What is Gamelight, and how does its rewarded game recommendation model work?How does the team identify and replicate high-value users?What causes lookalike model decay, and how do you avoid overfitting?How can UA teams respect privacy while maintaining performance?What signals matter most when predicting player retention?How can creative teams and data teams collaborate more effectively?What are the most common mistakes UA managers make when scaling campaigns?How do rewarded ads reshape consent and engagement models?What role does human judgment play in interpreting algorithmic outputs?How will privacy and regulation continue to shape UA in the next five years?Timestamps(0:00) – Intro: James Dickins and Gamelight overview(0:54) – The story behind Gamelight’s laser cat mascot(1:35) – What makes a high-value player, and how to identify them(2:04) – Using behavior profiles to guide acquisition strategy(2:55) – Lookalike models and the value of aggregated data(3:51) – Avoiding overfitting and model decay(4:50) – The surprise of discovering unexpected audience segments(5:20) – Privacy-first UA and ethical targeting(6:24) – Rewarded UA and consent-based engagement(6:30) – Managing ad fatigue and creative burnout(7:12) – When human intuition beats the algorithm(8:25) – Balancing optimization with experimentation(9:45) – Measuring engagement and long-term retention(10:17) – Designing for compliance before regulation hits(10:57) – Treating creative testing as data science(11:42) – Building the feedback loop between creative and data teams(12:52) – What keeps UA leaders up at night(13:07) – Predicting the future of user acquisition(17:35) – Wrap-up: how to connect with JamesSelected quotes(3:40) – “A strong lookalike model is always learning and changing, predicting not just who might install but who will stick around.”(4:24) – “Lookalike models are amazing, but they’re not magic. Model decay happens, and what worked last quarter might fail today.”(5:59) – “Precision targeting and privacy can feel like opposites, but they can work together when you focus on aggregated signals.”Mentioned in this episodeGamelightArchers.ioJames on Linkedin

Shilpa Reddy, CMO of Down Under School of Yoga and former Marketing VP at Acorns, maps her journey from fintech to wellness and explains why the same principles drive both: make time-tested tools accessible, and build a community that keeps people engaged. She breaks down her three-stage marketing flywheel, and shows why marketers must dismantle the false divide between direct response and brand storytelling. The conversation moves from Acorns’ spare-change investing to Down Under’s community-driven yoga. She interrogates the role of podcasts as the new TV, the measurement gaps left by ATT, and how authenticity risks becoming uniform in an AI-saturated content world.Questions Shilpa answered in this episode:What drew Shilpa from Acorns to running a yoga business?How curiosity and human-centered marketing let her adapt across industriesWhat is the three-stage marketing flywheel, and how do you know when to move from one stage to the next?Why brand and performance are one continuum, not opposing forces?How LTV makes the case for brand investment with a CFOWhy podcasts function as the ‘new TV’ for reach, trust, and ad effectiveness?How marketers should balance host-read storytelling with direct response calls to action?How AT&T’s affected mobile marketing measurementWhy authenticity should mean varied storytelling, not uniform brand policingWhat advice Shilpa gives to early-stage wellness founders with no marketing budget?Timestamps:(0:00) – Intro; Shilpa’s journey from Acorns to Down Under Yoga(2:00) – Growing up with yoga, curiosity, and career pivots across industries(3:50) – Acorns’ mission and how it relates to yoga(8:00) – The three-stage marketing flywheel explained (fit, LTV, brand)(13:50) – Signs you’re ready to move between stages (NPS, brand love, data)(15:15) – Making the CFO case for brand investments through LTV(17:00) – The orchestration problem: aligning funnel mechanics with brand reach(19:00) – Podcasts as the new TV: hours consumed, trust, and ad-to-content ratio(24:40) – ATT’s impact: creativity up, measurement lagging(26:20) – Authenticity vs. uniformity: the danger of AI-generated generic content(29:30) – Advice to early-stage wellness founders: start with your most loyal clients(55:00) – Wrap-up: Down Under Yoga, on-demand classes, how to connectQuotes:(12:30) – “Stage one is finding who your product is loved by. Stage two is increasing their lifetime value. Stage three is broadcasting your brand story.”(15:30) – “LTV almost by definition is long-term. It allows you to justify investments in brand.”(19:10) – “Podcasts are the new TV. Americans average three hours a week, and the trust in the host feels one-to-one, not one-to-many.”(27:20) – “Authentic does not have to mean uniform. It’s the opposite. It means telling varied, engaging stories rooted in what you stand for.”Mentioned in this episode:AcornsDown Under School of YogaShilpa’s Linkedin

Alejandro Hernandez, Senior CRM Notifications and Lifecycle Specialist at Babbel, explains how AI and human creativity intersect to drive retention in language learning. He shares how Babbel uses ecosystem segmentation, predictive models, and deep links to re-engage millions of learners worldwide. From predicting churn with behavior signals to ensuring that every push notification feels like a supportive nudge rather than spam, Alejandro shares his thoughts on the CRM strategies that lead to habits -- not hassle.Questions Alejandro answered in this episode:What is Babbel, and what role does CRM play in its learning ecosystem?How does an ecosystem approach to segmentation help map multiple user journeys?What signals does AI track to predict churn and reactivation opportunities?How does Babbel blend AI-driven insights with human empathy in its messaging?What role do deep links play in removing friction between a notification and action?How does Babbel balance engagement without overwhelming users?Why is CRM more than marketing, and what role does it play in habit formation?What advice does Alejandro give to new CRM specialists entering the field?What’s the most overlooked opportunity in mobile lifecycle marketing?Timestamps:(0:00) – Intro; Alejandro’s role and Babbel overview(3:30) – The ecosystem approach to segmentation: multiple user journeys(5:48) – How AI predicts churn and identifies user behavior signals(7:49) – AI vs human in copy: empathy, tone, and realistic learning nudges(9:10) – Preventing notification fatigue and balancing opt-outs(11:00) – Removing friction with deep links, and why they matter for busy users(14:32) – Balancing predictive intelligence with human creativity in messaging(17:03) – What CRM teams must do to prepare for an AI-driven future(18:45) – The overlooked role of CRM in mobile marketing strategy(20:01) – Advice for newcomers to CRM and lifecycle marketing(29:06) – Wrap-up: where to connect with AlejandroQuotes:(6:16) – “AI is helping us detect signals like when a user who was practicing every day shifts to three times a week - that’s when we step in with personalized communication.”(9:45) – “If a user doesn’t respond to our first or second message, we stop. That silence is also a signal.”(11:50) – “Deep links are critical. If someone clicks to review yesterday’s lesson, we send them straight to it, not to the home page where they need extra taps.”(18:54) – “CRM is still underrated in mobile companies. Done well, it’s not a random push, it’s the difference between feeling interrupted and feeling supported.”Mentioned in this episode:BabbelAlejandro on Linkedin

Advi Bishnoi, Head of Consulting at Social Plus, argues that in 2025, retention has overtaken acquisition as the real growth engine for apps. From Ulta Beauty to Harley Davidson, Advi has helped brands turn community features into measurable revenue streams. In this episode, he explains why micro-communities and in-app social layers transform loyalty programs, how first-party data becomes indispensable in a privacy-first world, and why marketers need to stop fixating on CPMs and CAC. The conversation maps out how fitness apps, travel platforms, sports teams, and retailers all harness community differently and why organic engagement often beats promotions or retargeting in driving long-term retention.Questions Advi answered in this episode:What is Social Plus, and how do its in-app social features work?Why is retention ‘the new acquisition’ in 2025?What mistakes do marketers make when they think about retention?How do community features increase CLV across verticals like fitness, travel, and retail?How can first-party data from in-app communities transform marketing and personalization?Who inside a company should ‘own’ retention marketing, product, or success?How can loyalty programs be built on organic engagement instead of just promos?What is the ‘spaces model’ for understanding community ROI?How should marketers balance personalization with scale across millions of users?What metrics should marketers stop obsessing over, and which deserve more focus?What new revenue opportunities do brand partners unlock inside communities?Timestamps:(0:00) – Intro; Advi’s background and Social Plus overview(1:38) – Micro-community examples: surf shops, fitness apps, Nike sneakerheads(7:03) – Why ‘retention is growth’ in 2025: CAC vs CLV(9:30) – Marketing silos and the ownership problem in retention(13:40) – Why promos and events are less effective than organic engagement(17:21) – First-party data: insights, sentiment analysis, and privacy advantages(20:00) – Loyalty vs. hypergrowth: why CLV is a long-term play(22:37) – Signals of churn, and how to intervene before users leave(25:41) – Balancing personalization and scale with AI-driven sentiment and clusters(28:20) – Metrics that marketers overvalue (CAC, ad spend) versus those they undervalue (LTV, frequency, order size)(31:00) – Brand partnerships inside communities: CPM rethink and new revenue models(33:32) – Rapid fire: food in Thailand vs Italy, habits, dream jobs, favorite brandsSelected quotes:(12:50) – “Promos and gamified events help, but organic engagement helps more. People join a 30-day fitness challenge not for the discount, but because others are posting daily and they want to participate.”(21:22) – “Customer acquisition is measurable and fast, which is why VCs love it. Retention is a long-term play, it’s demand gen, brand equity, and profitability over three to five years.”(28:30) – “Marketers need to stop obsessing over CAC. In my world, it’s 30% CAC, 70% retention and lifetime value.”(32:23) – “For sponsored posts in-community, we’ve seen brands charge $15 to $60 CPMs, because the audience is hyper-focused and conversion rates are so much higher.”Mentioned in this episode:Social Plus (social.plus)Advi on Linkedin

Louis Tanguay, founder and managing director of App Growth Summit, traces his arc from music magazine founder to film marketer to architect of a global mobile industry community now marking its 100th event. Louis explains why mobile marketers keep missing the basics: custom product pages, team silos, overreliance on AI and how AGS forges authentic connection in a field where ‘networking’ usually means sales pitches. Louis argues for true community as a defense against industry fads and reveals practical tactics for getting actual value from events.Questions Louis answered in this episode:Why Louis started App Growth SummitThe moment AGS’s ‘community first’ format revealed the gap in existing event cultureWhat are mobile marketers missing in custom product page strategy?Where does AI actually help and where does it actively dull critical thinking?Why do marketers keep separating teams and failing to optimize collaboration?How can retargeting go beyond surface-level re-engagement to real value?What separates high-ROI event vendors from the time-wasters?How does AGS build authentic community, and what’s the actual ROI of belonging?What advice does Louis give first-time sponsors and networkers who want more than a sales lead?Why do so many marketers waste the opportunity of an event, and how is AGS structured to avoid this?Where is the industry headed, and what does Louis see as the next phase?Timestamps:(0:00) – Intro, Louis’s journey from music to mobile marketing(2:45) – First AGS event: origin story, first sponsors, finding the ‘sweet spot’(4:23) – The ‘community not scale’ thesis: AGS’s unique approach(7:20) – Venue selection, why environment shapes event outcomes(9:33) – Industry blindspots: custom product pages, marketing-product silos(11:00) – Getting CPPs right: landing page principles, offer-matching, creative basics(14:00) – AI’s role: when it elevates, when it destroys value(23:00) – Maximizing events: actionable networking, why ‘closing deals’ is a dead-end(30:35) – AGS global: favorite cities, the meaning of event #100(36:10) – Rapid fire: first thing at an event, dream speakers, live shows, Austin food, travel recs(39:40) – Closing: next AGS events, community calls to actionQuotes:(11:33) – “ If you match your creative and the offer to the campaign, you’re going to get way more conversions.”(14:15) – “AI is more ‘A’ than ‘I’ right now…It’s a supercharged research tool, but it’s not going to replace real creative strategy anytime soon.”(24:12) – “If you want ROI from an event, don’t cluster with your coworkers. Talk to people you don’t know, open doors, and don’t expect a deal by Friday.”Mentioned in this episode:App Growth Summit (appgrowthsummit.com)App Growth Snacks newsletterLouis on Linkedin