Let's talk Transformation : The business leaders podcast

Collective intelligence is the most important intelligent asset an organization has.The conventional wisdom of “command and control” in leadership is crumbling. A rapidly changing world demands a different management model, one built on “power with” rather than “power over.”Rod and I dig into why nobody is smarter than everyone and explore the power of collective intelligence in organisations. In a fast-moving world, a top-down hierarchy stymies progress and innovation; networks require different leadership that is not based on levels or departments, i.e. not horizontal or vertical in structure. In fact, networks are the lever for effecting lasting change, and harnessing the potential of an organisation.Rod vividly recalls a pivotal moment at Blue Cross Blue Shield: “The world moves faster than any CEO can think.” He realized no single leader, no matter how brilliant, could keep pace with rapid change. This insight sparked a shift from traditional hierarchy to a networked approach. This led to the unlocking of collective genius. In an AI world, how can we keep that human creative genius ?We explore extending the principles of collective intelligence to the development of artificial intelligence and integrating the learning from human and crowd sourced wisdom.Rod shares his insights, experience and research from working inside and with organisations on building a more collective and distributed leadership and decision making structure.Are you inadvertently stifling your team’s collective genius?The main insights you'll get from this episode are :Culture-building meetings with external parties are often more productive - having internal leaders act as facilitators off-site and bringing together a microcosm of the business gives everyone the same voice.Success depends on seeking first to understand then to be understood; asking clarifying questions; engaging in small mixed-group discussions; ensuring diversity of opinion; no censorship; and participation over disruption.Debate often gives rise to ‘lowest common denominator’ solutions; preferable is looking at the outcome regardless of agreement and disagreement, always having group decisions and avoiding polarisation.Uncovering what we didn’t know we knew as well as what we didn’t know we didn’t know is very important in a rapidly changing world - networks are better at this; successful companies know that it drives efficiency and leads to growth.Mining and leveraging collective intelligence (CI) is based on four attributes that work together: diversity of opinion, independent thinking, local knowledge, and an aggregation mechanism.Bosses who become facilitators make growth, adaptability, innovativeness, and the ability to pivot more likely - intentional design for CI busts leadership myths and creates conditions for sustainable growth.Senior leaders must accept divergent thinking, which is traditionally sorely lacking in the West, and companies must be free markets of ideas (with a decision-making structure).In a network, miscreants become contributors and leadership is about facilitating constructive conversations where everyone is heard and diversity is welcome - everyone has an obligation to speak up in a safe space.Slowing down to move fast under pressure reduces resistance - leaders ideally keep their opinions to themselves to allow CI to run its course and come to a (different) solution.If everyone’s voice is heard, everyone is accountable – in a network, accountability is to peers, and is an effective mechanism for experimenting, keeping what’s working and discarding what’s not.CI principles are critical for AI as they will determine whether we build a tyrannical AI on an enormous scale (enemy of the state) or evolve human intelligence (accelerator of humanity).Fast thinking (biases, false confidence) vs. slow thinking (rational, deliberative, doubtful): AI could enable the former at the speed of the latter, thereby playing a constructive rather than destructive role.Find out more about Rod and his work here :https://rodcollins.net/

AI is changing work faster than people can change how they workThis requires a new approach to human adaptation, not just technology deployment.A rich discussion with Nikki about how to move past chaotic AI adoption to focused, fast-paced organizational learning cycles, understanding at the same time that AI speed is unprecedented. We explore how leaders can transform, innovate, and amplify their impact in the AI age.Many organizations are grappling with the “Shiny Object Syndrome” in AI adoption. It is vital to keep business fundamentals in sight given that AI is ‘just’ a tech to help meet business objectives, yet shiny object syndrome prevails in many companies - strategic business clarity does not come from AI.Now is an opportunity for every business, also to stay competitive – the fundamental operating cycles are getting faster, and models are changing (from pyramid to molecular).We discuss how to ensure sustainable transformation, through continuous iteration in rapid 90-day cycles. This sprint-based approach allows for quick wins, builds internal capability, and maintains relevance in a fast-changing AI landscape.The result is Agentic-Human Reinvention; where humans and AI amplify each other, where output becomes exponential without more hours. Where people become People Squared.Nikki shares insights from her 25-year career helping top brands reinvent their culture and capabilities.What specific business objective could AI help your organization achieve in the next 90 days?The main insights you'll get from this episode are :Organisational learning cycles help leaders trying to navigate the rapid changes AI is wreaking on work – it is the greatest disruption in modern human history, and most leaders are ill equipped to deal with it.It is not just a matter of AI adoption, but how to help humans adapt and relinquish evolutionary design to co-evolve with AI for a new reality that reshapes roles and value creation models.It is vital to keep business fundamentals in sight given that AI is ‘just’ a tech to help meet business objectives, yet shiny object syndrome prevails in many companies - strategic business clarity does not come from AI.Clearly defined AI projects create sustainable change, which requires continuous and rapid iteration – in cycles – for specific use cases to create the highest ROI and demonstrate the value of AI.The superficial application of AI erodes trust and wastes resources; this new tech must be taught rather than learnt, which makes it more valuable yet also more difficult to create a culture of trust in it.Deploying AI must begin with the people, not the project - AI is forcing a deep change in human beings who feel threatened evolutionarily by a lack of safety, certainty and comfort.Embracing risk and navigating uncertainty is an identity/mindset shift and the starting point to determine which zone of genius remains and what must go; AI as a co-worker follows the reinvention of the people, the process and the tools.Personal transformation is the first step towards reshaping the philosophy of leadership guided by core values; continuous learning is now the ultimate superpower to turn knowledge into wisdom.Clarity, courage, and conviction could be joined by a fourth ‘c’, curiosity - we all have access to infinite intelligence, but it is our own inherent curiosity that will distinguish us from others – innately human skills make us valuable in an AI age.Flipwork is a response to the scale and speed of change and how to approach transformation in order to make it a reinvention engine; people2 is about collaboration between humans and AI.The aim is to amplify not replace the human by building a world to bring out the best of humans - agentic human reinvention beings with a personal case study that is then developed for deployment in organisations.The adoption of AI (at scale) as a team member is challenging at both individual and organisational levels as it requires reimagining the business as opposed to simply implementing tech.At individual level, the challenge is about trust – job security, data privacy, rogue use of tech, AI slop, fake content – as not trusting the effects of AI will prevent its adoption; AI upskilling helps people think differently about it to adapt skill sets.The unit of value is decreasing in organisations, affecting community - hybrid must contextualise humans and machines and embody teams of specialists operating with speed, precision and ability to adapt to any given environment.Redefining hybrid also changes cultural codes and organisational design; redesigns the role of HR; reimagines planning cycles; and must keep employees engaged rather than transactional.The power of leadership necessitates leaders to recognise their important new role in the new reality and understanding what makes people (feel) uniquely valuable rather than focusing on (machine) productivity.Expectation management, accountability, etc. still matter and leaders must be willing to shed the playbook for previous success and reinvent themselves, bringing people with them by being explorers, not experts.Constant learning is about moving from a level-1 toolset to an improved toolset to overcome obstacles and move up to level 2, etc. - there are infinite levels, but progress is limited by the time available and attachment to identity/skills.A sense of self that does not come from success is threatening, therefore embrace this change as the best adventure of your life – have fun, build skills, drive change, and trust yourself.Find out more about Nikki and her work here :https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikkibarua/https://www.nikkibarua.com/https://www.nikkibarua.com/newsletters/reinvention-roadmap/https://www.flipwork.ai/

"The way we talk about change is more important than how we plan it.."88% of organizational change efforts fail to produce lasting results. What if the solution isn’t a new framework, but a new conversation?This episode challenges leaders to reconsider why change efforts fail, pointing to a surprising culprit: a lack of listening and communication. Jeff and I explore how shifting our approach to conversations can transform outcomes and build stronger, more adaptive organisations.We literally change the conversation, digging into the fact that individuals are often ambivalent about change, possessing both reasons to accept it and reasons to hesitate. This ambivalence is not fixed but fluid, and can be navigated intentionallyMotivational interviewing (MI), originally developed in clinical psychology, provides a framework for guiding individuals toward change they cannot be compelled to make. Motivational Interviewing teaches us to listen for “change talk” and “sustain talk” — people’s own reasons for and against change.This deep listening reveals the raw ingredients for productive dialogue, moving beyond fixed attitudes to address underlying concerns. It’s about meeting people where they are, acknowledging their ambivalence, and helping them clarify their own path forward. This approach doesn’t dismiss models; it feeds them the human insights they need to succeed.How do you differentiate between true resistance and genuine hesitation in your teams?The main insights you'll get from this episode are :Conversations about change need to be front and centre in organisations – organisational change requires communication, commitment and engagement, making it easy to find excuses not to undertake it.Failed organisational change comes at enormous cost, making successful organisational change essential for the bottom line - everyone is ambivalent about change, but leaders often interpret hesitation as resistance.Change management has unhelpfully popularised the word ‘resistance’, yet attitudes towards change are not fixed - the many reasons why people are for or against change fluctuate; tweaking this balance can move the needle towards change.‘Resistance’ attributes intention without discretion or discernment, whereas it might be due to a lack of understanding or training - calling people resistant is self-fulfilling; likewise silence does not always signify defiance.Motivational interviewing (MI) for organisational change can be defined as a set of conversational tools and skills for helping people move towards change that you can’t make for them – this makes it relatable and teachable.Understanding how to listen differently, speak differently, and help build belief in different modes of communication means that small steps can be interleaved with immediate effect (MI-inspired microskills).Learning to listen for change talk (someone’s own language of change) and sustain talk (someone’s own language against change) brings to light the ‘raw ingredients’ for a different kind of conversation.Frameworks and models (i.e. planning) for organisational change don’t work, are unsustainably expensive and alienate staff; ‘all models are wrong, some are useful’ is true if they are used consistently.Overinvestment in models makes it difficult to undo and reveals the gap in change management: clients have expectations of a certain model but generally only half the tools required for successful organisational change.Change is constant, which makes a relational infrastructure essential - change fatigue is real and driven by the low success rate; transformation is necessary to remain competitive but it can be stressful to revisit it all the time.The cycle of change is a relational activity to build the social tissue of an organisation, not a process flow, roadmap, etc. – a different approach positions the relational piece as a solution to the problem.AI is transforming multiple aspects quickly but is not immune to the laws of change adoption (like the Internet before it) – the issue is to get people to adopt it, which is a highly relational pursuit.AI will not eradicate the problem of talking and helping others to change – it makes people worse at communicating, therefore exacerbating the problem – and is still a long way from being able to help us solve these problems.Interaction with AI is by default transactional rather than involving empathy and human connection, but the way we speak to each other about change matters, and requires skills that most leaders have never been taught.Find out more about Jeff and his work here :https://www.linkedin.com/in/wetherhold/https://www.jeffwetherhold.comhttps://www.miforhealth.com

"Leadership is a collective ability. It’s not an individual skill set."Now more than ever this phrase rings true for leadership in teams, organisations and society as a whole. The inherited leadership model is destructive, not productive in today's interconnected world.Never has it been more important to challenge the status quo, to unlearn old formatting and build new patterns so that organisations and teams can thrive. The best way to avoid risk is to actually do nothing.- Celine's observation highlights a critical issue in modern leadership. Many organizations inadvertently foster environments where inaction is safer than innovation. I see this firsthand frequently.Leaders, fearing blame for mistakes, often maintain the status quo. This “risk of doing versus risk of not doing” dynamic stifles creativity and energy. We need leaders to challenge this complacency. Rather than trying to be the best, leaders should challenge themselves ethically and morally; pursue human pastimes to maintain emotional and creative ability; hold space to think and feel; and improve the quality of relationships with their people and between people - leadership is a collective ability, not an individual pursuit.Celine shares her insights and experience from working with leaders all over the globe and from researching her book : Dare to Unlead.The main insights you'll get from this episode are :The inherited leadership model is destructive, not productive: it is evident in the corporate world that leadership has been transformed into an industry, making it difficult to progress (business- and human-wise) in large, industrialised companies.Toxic patterns are reproduced, resulting in a male-dominated, ego-drive, territory-obsessed culture with the heavy infrastructure of prediction and control that is slow, outdated, inefficient, and comes at enormous personal, social and planetary cost.Red flags often come in the form of multiple small indications, such as cultural, ethnic, and gender homogeneity at decision-making level; a prevalence of no vs yes; and difficulties driving innovative projects forwards because leaders are risk averse.A lack of accountability for not doing the right/wrong thing leads to complacency and ‘yes’ people who maintain the status quo, leaving no room for new blood or change, which in turn produces stagnant energy that is directed into negative politics.In the workplace, we have to be with people we haven’t chosen or who aren’t like us, giving us an opportunity to develop our diversity muscle in terms of dealing with different opinions, worldviews, etc. against a clear mandate of making the business work.Leadership is about enabling something productive; creating value across the board; and mobilising all talent - energy and power are omnipresent and can be either a constraint or an opportunity, depending on the mindset.Familiar power structures are still honoured, e.g. one knowledgeable expert has the right to overrule all other opinions, but they are no longer applicable given that managers now are often less knowledgeable than their direct reports.Knowledge and relational work has changed the foundations of old decision-making systems, with more agility and diversity required - leaders must stop seeing themselves as the centre/top of the system, and rather as an enabler of a network.Leaders must foster strong, effective connections in multiple ways, including making themselves dispensable - mentoring other good leaders to overcome the parent/child dynamic and step into the less comfortable environment of an adult/adult relationship.Late-stage, extractive capitalism is unhelpful in that it encourages us to seek an ‘easy’ solution and gives way to a ‘strongman’ approach: when it comes to mobilisation vs manipulation, the former should be top of mind for any engagement professional.The new identity in the workplace is not tied to roles or locations, but is part of a larger, living ecosystem in which people must feel valued and welcomed - hierarchy can remain, but the relational aspect is more relevant, and everyone is important.Relational energy is scaled by spreading the load and opening up the vision to everyone – it cannot simply be replicated as it is a living system, therefore new versions can be created by connecting the energy centres in the system for mutual benefit.Leadership practice based on liberty, equality, and fraternity (from the French culture):Liberty: allowing for more (creative) freedom in the system (reducing control, trusting people to play); becoming free yourself (questioning our behaviour and latitude)Equality: connecting freedom at a collective level (having a network model); maintaining a cohesive network (no bureaucratic control)Fraternity: wanting to be together with very different people; promoting co-activismIt is important to build a ‘we’ space – internal social media let down by algorithms that fragment rather than connect; community audio (e.g. internal radio/podcasts) gives people a voice without a visual image that can have an excluding effect.Storytelling and relational leadership in the AI era must value the human aspect to heal, teach, lead and let people be human, otherwise we will have more rebellion and an increasingly negative impact on the planet.Rather than trying to be the best, leaders should challenge themselves ethically and morally; pursue human pastimes to maintain emotional and creative ability; hold space to think and feel; and improve the quality of relationships with their people and between people - leadership is a collective ability, not an individual pursuit.Find out more about Celine and her work here :https://www.linkedin.com/in/celineschillinger/?originalSubdomain=frhttps://www.figure1publishing.com/book/dare-to-un-lead/https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dare-Lead-Relational-Leadership-Fragmented/dp/1773271822https://weneedsocial.com/

"If my top talent walked out tomorrow, or AI shook things up overnight, would I still know how to win with people ?"This is the question Kate and I discuss - the urgent need to rewire work and change the way we view talent, skills and the workplace. One of the shifts is moving from viewing individuals as mere “employees” to recognising them as “contributors.” This change fosters a sense of agency within any organizational system.The topic of agency highlights a crucial shift: workers have agency to choose and the long time loyalty contracts are gone. People, particularly the younger generations now prioritize health benefits, time off, and flexible working over pay raises. This signifies a deeper desire for lifestyle integration and genuine care from employers. It’s about feeling valued for one’s skills from day one, having a voice, and ensuring long-term employability, especially with AI on the horizon. If our identity is tied to what we know, how do we adapt when AI “knows more”?Historically, the more people got used to new tech, the less anxious they became. But with AI, it’s the opposite! The closer people get, the more nervous they feel. This isn’t just about understanding the tech; it’s about our identity and status tied to what we know versus what we’re willing to learn. This paradox calls for a fundamental shift: from being “know-it-alls” to “learn-it-alls.” Leaders must foster environments where learning and adaptability are paramount, rather than relying solely on existing expertise.If you had the opportunity to redesign work in this department how would you do it differently ? The insights you'll get from this episode are : -      It is people, not technology, who breathe life into businesses and keep them competitive; the pressure businesses are under puts a premium on talent and GenAI is increasing the gap between average and high-performing employees.-      Hiring, development and promotion must be right for a business to unlock opportunities, but workers have more options than ever before - Gen Z feel work is broken and the lift provided by augmented AI does not fix what is broken.-      The proximity paradox, i.e. the nearer people get to AI, the more nervous they are about it, is the opposite of past experiences with tech – if people are worried about losing their jobs and using AI, they will not innovate and look forward.-      This paradox is also a human paradox – GenAI provides no reassurance as it is always changing and learning, which is at odds with a system that values knowing over learning: know-it-all v learn-it-all is a threat to identity and status.-      Companies must care about guiding employees so that they stay relevant, and managers must have honest conversations with employees about how AI will change their jobs – this may well involve not having all the answers.-      The employee turnover rate is driven by the labour market and HR must know what the company’s reputation is externally to prevent the top talent from leaving in a flexible and fluid talent supply – motivation is key here.-      More agility in the workforce requires intentional work redesign - fixed v flex v fully flow roles - to solve real human problems and supply gaps through e.g. offshoring, right-shoring, making use of global capacity centres.-      Leaders must be able to work across temporal, digital, cultural and behavioural boundaries, and across generations, i.e. manage paradox, sense markets and people, have a global mindset, and embrace DE&I.-      Upskilling is crucial, as skills are the real currency in the AI era; businesses must make clear what opportunities they offer but it is difficult to move to skills-powered talents practices if we don’t know what skills we need in future.-      Leaders must hire based on skills and relocate skills internally, which means less cohesive teams, but the benefit must be demonstrated and governed - the transferability of skills becomes essential for both employees and employers.-      Change is easier under the right leader, who must understand what really creates value and what human skills will become premium – a commitment to breeding great leaders is urgently required.-      Leaders need to be empathetic; inspire a team; understand what the impact of AI is going to be; and build sustainable businesses with a healthy workforce to drive up productivity.Find out more about Kate and her work here : https://www.linkedin.com/in/kate-bravery/?originalSubdomain=ukhttps://www.mercer.com/en-gb/insights/people-strategy/future-of-work/podcast-new-shape-of-work/the-skills-powered-organization/https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sustainable-People-Strategies-Organizations-Employees/dp/1394181299 

“Most organisations don’t fail through lack of strategy, but because the strategy never reaches the front line.” How do we ensure that our organisational strategy truly reaches the front line of operations, preventing it from remaining solely at the board level?Matt & I delve into this critical challenge facing leaders today. We uncover how to bridge this gap, ensuring your strategic vision translates into frontline execution and sustained growth.The tension between “explore” (innovation) and “exploit” (business as usual) is a constant balancing act for organisations. and we need to inherently foster both. But how ? The Square management system provides an architecture for leaders to scale their culture without stifling innovation, a critical balance for companies. Matt shares his journey, from transforming underperforming sports franchises to investment banking and corporate development, where he observed how different companies created or captured value. He realised the importance of intentional organisational design when asked how to maintain culture across multiple offices and states, leading to the development of his book and approach.“square” does not imply a rigid, binary system but represents a dynamic space for culture. He defines good culture as the alignment between an individual’s perceptions, beliefs, and values and the company’s systems and procedures. The “square” changes in size and shape depending on the company’s needs. Discover the four "I"s—Identity, Instruction, Intercommunication, and Information Feedback—that form the foundation of an effective organizational design. We discuss how leaders can utilize this system not just as a culture tool, but as a comprehensive operating framework, especially vital during M&A integrations or major reorganizations. How do you balance freedom for innovation with the need for operational consistency in your organization ?The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -      Regardless of sector, there are commonalities in terms of workplace cultures and thriving, i.e. understanding where value lies and how to create or capture it - the square management system is an architecture for leaders to scale culture without suffocating innovation.-      The Culture of Alignment is a philosophical exercise around how to run a company, a model for operationalising strategies into tactics, as strategy often stays at the top, without penetrating the front line.-      Rather than copying what others have done, it offers a way to intentionally structure a high-performing organisation, with direct tools to provide for growth and scale - not a blueprint, but an invitation to create a bespoke model.-      The system factors in both alignment and flexibility by understanding what the culture is and intentionally designing for it: the culture is the square, but the size of the square and the walls can change.-      The square comprises: identity (do customers and staff know what we stand for), instruction (expectation for performance standard across the organisation), intercommunication (flow of information across the company), information feedback (data and information on the company and employees).-      The fifth i in the middle of the square is constrained independence (the known degree to which an employee can action their own ideas) = culture; a lack of constraint leads to mini squares = chaos.-      Most companies fall short in one area: identity deviation erodes trust; instruction deviation leads to a varying standard of performance; intercommunication deviation produces a disconnect between the publicised view and the reality of the culture; information feedback deviation sees companies failing to assess themselves.-      The system must offer space to pivot (e.g. startups) yet ensure constraint where necessary (e.g. hospitals, factories); when scaling intensifies, there must be adherence to the full system: intentionality, completeness and constitution.-      It also acts as an operating framework for diagnostic purposes, e.g. flagging employee churn as a sign of misalignment, and as a container for ‘business as usual’ and innovation (degree of innovation depends on the size of the square).-      The square allows for known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns, but if these are not communicated by leaders, employees fall foul of them unwittingly; the system enables leaders to be in alignment with their employees.Find out more about Matthew and his work here : https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewdperson/https://townsquare-advisors.com/

"Think about how stretchy you are and what you accept. Where are your breaking points?"One particularly striking data point: 70% of people face obstacles asking questions at work. This statistic underscores a core issue. Curiosity is often cited as a value, yet many environments make it unsafe to ask for clarification or challenge ideas. Fear of looking incompetent, challenging authority, or slowing down progress often silences valuable input.Julie and I discuss how curiosity, respect, and self-awareness can transform organisational life. We explore practical strategies for leaders to foster psychological safety and inclusive collaboration, using Julie's own unique journey and the powerful “Seven Forms of Respect” framework for guidance. We often talk about “soft skills” in organisations, but as teams become more global and complexity increases, these skills are anything but soft. They’re foundational. We discover a refreshing perspective to curiosity, respect, and self-awareness, showing us how to make these invisible dynamics tangible and actionable. This in turn allows leaders to shift from just “knowing” to truly “learning” — a real leadership superpower in our changing world.Recognising your “rubber band” stretchiness - Understand personal boundaries and breaking points, and communicate them to others is also key as it prevents snapping and strengthens relationships. This episode offers key insights into navigating complex team dynamics and maintaining a learning mindset in high-pressure environments.The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -      Being a self-taught organisational development consultant taught the critical value of sharing resources and building communities in times of crisis; there is tension and friction in any community but making the invisible relational dynamics tangible helps to understand them.-      When it comes to learning from other people, curiosity and self-assessment are required for the shift from knowing to learning, and to decode the different dynamics; curiosity requires questions, but do people feel safe enough to ask questions?-      Internal narrative and cultural formatting influence communication - we are all members of multiple cultures, communities and identities simultaneously, and inward curiosity is a prerequisite: What matters to me?-      Our multiple identities mean that we must slow down and reflect to enable good decisions to be made from a place of curiosity; leadership rituals (e.g. meeting facilitator rotation) can help teams maintain curiosity when under pressure, create empathy and force listening.-      Using the seven forms of respect as a framework for collaboration helps understand how respect is relative, dynamic, subjective and contradictory: Procedure, Punctuality, Information, Candor, Consideration, Acknowledgement, Attention.-      A useful analogy here is with language: the organisational level represents the national language; departments represent dialects; and the individual is represented by their own language – we all need to be multilingual.-      Intercultural working results in unclear messages, which lead to perpetuated actions and unmet expectations that were never made explicit - a team must understand what respect means to them, not by guessing, but by asking others.-      Inward curiosity is about self-reflection and admitting what challenges us and what our expectations are – this can be difficult to acknowledge given that it can be perceived as a challenge to our identity.-      Curiosity in practice means approaching conversations curiously and asking ourselves two questions first: Do I want the other person to learn from me? Am I willing to learn from them? This applies in the workplace and in our private lives.-      Context, such as corporate, personal communities, etc., can make a difference to the outcome given that some relationships are more transactional (e.g. tech company) than based on investment in people (e.g. governments) - it is easier to practice curiosity when there is less emotional attachment.-      The golden rule of respect is to treat people the way you want to be treated. The ‘rubber band rule’ holds that we can all stretch, if we want to, for other people; if we overstretch, we snap and break but often blame others for this.-      The stretchiness of the band varies depending on contexts, which require different boundaries; it is about adapting, reframing what you can do rather than what you can’t, and feeling safe enough to make a counteroffer.Find out more about Julie and her work here : https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliepham2/https://curiositybased.com/https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/curiosity-at-work/id1761849370TedEx : https://youtu.be/Jb0aQ2gE4tU?si=izPd0kf_1OfzW7BzYouTube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMatwOESTROb6qJF5qYf1Kg

"it’s faster to implement a piece of technology than it is to get 10,000 people to stop doing what they’ve been doing for a decade and start to do new things and work in new ways"Hilton and I unpack the hidden dynamics of organizational change, and the influence of informal power dynamics on transformation. Most change programs falter, not due to strategy, but because leaders often overlook the invisible power of trust and connection networks. Amidst the 'talent' lists and org charts, do you know where your powerful influencers are in your organisation ? Hilton shares his powerful “people, not pixels” philosophy, explaining how technology investments frequently overshadow the critical human element. It is difficult to budget for, and prioritise, translating a ‘people not pixels’ approach into culture change; similar to what we are finding with AI today, digital transformation stands and falls with the people and the culture of an organisation, not the technology. We also dive into the “3% rule" from Innoviser, exploring how identifying and activating informal power networks can create significant momentum and surface untapped potential and highlight the 'key influencers' in your organisation. This conversation challenges traditional views of leadership and offers a fresh perspective on cultivating a resilient, adaptable culture.Discover how to transform your approach to change by understanding the relational and emotional infrastructure that truly drives performance. Learn why acknowledging emotions and mapping your organisation’s real connections are non-negotiable for future success. Look at where and how you can unlock potential in your teams and organisations.How can you use data differently to understand the potential of your organisation ? The main insights you'll get from this episode are : o  C-suite is under such immense pressure that people are overlooked and investment is made in technology, which becomes an efficiency tool that is quicker to implement and yield results than changing people’s habits.o  We ignore previous failures and neglect to learn lessons, yet without an enthusiastic commitment of the culture to change, strategy will flounder and adoption will slow – the vital balancing act is to engage humans proactively: tech + humans, not tech v humans.o  The invisible part of culture is where it has been made amorphous and ambiguous, so that it is seen as the ‘soft’, human-related aspect of change when it is actually the most challenging aspect – to motivate, entice and energise others.o  How humans behave and make decisions within an organisation is important because of how we interact with each other across ecosystems – the many decisions that are made (or not made) on a daily basis must align with the strategy.o  Culture can be defined as the worst behaviour tolerated by management - this is pivotal to sustainable transformation because of the importance of the relational and emotional infrastructure when building culture and performance.o  Functioning informal power networks and humanly - not digitally - connected organisations are built on the basic tenets of humanity, i.e. trust, advocacy, commitment and energy, which in turn are reliant on relationships as the currency of systems.o  In terms of influence, leadership impact involves many other parties on the edges who build communities, create momentum, and unlock hidden potential (cf. Innovisor’s rule that 3% of employees drive 90% of change in an organisation).o  The inherently human approach of organisational network analysis to define the connectors in the organisation enables leaders to unlock potential by engaging those people who provide the ideas and the energy and invite trust.o  Agency is diluted by a lack of clear accountability – a more informal structure is possible if leaders acknowledge human characteristics; are transparent and authentic; are explicit about latitude for failure; and encourage enthusiasm, curiosity and creativity.o  Passive constraints make consequential management difficult as systems favour familiarity but ‘early warning radar’ humans are those who are (not obviously) the influences on others – this is the disconnect between sense-making at the top and what people experience on the ground.o  Emotions drive decision-making but are not spoken about because they are messy, uncomfortable, and vulnerable – organisations that ignore emotions and how they play out in teams do so at their peril.o  Emotionally literate leaders would bring about different outcomes by unlocking hidden potential at the edges of the organisation – the pressure on leaders to succeed is excessive and often comes at the expense of cultural sensitivity.o  It takes confidence and courage for leaders to ride out the exciting, exhausting and unpredictable ripple effect when like-minded people find each other; it is a missed opportunity not to ‘dimensionalise’ emotions and secure – immediately and deliberately – the foundational elements to withstand today’s speed of change. Find out more about Hilton here : Culture & Strategy - Building Your Competitive Advantagehttps://www.linkedin.com/in/hiltonbarbour/ 

"The future won’t belong to humans or machines, but to those who master the hybrid skill set combining AI literacy and human literacy."The future of work is not about humans versus machines. Instead, it belongs to those who master a unique hybrid skill set. This blend combines AI literacy with essential human capabilities. Literacy in today's world lies in the ability to learn, unlearn and relearn - this has never been more true as it is in today's partnership with Agentic AI. Andréa and I delve into the what these combined forces could look like, and how to build the framework for operational implementation. Digital transformation requires a hybrid skill set that fulfils the three different facets of transformation (cognitive, behavioural and emotional), which in turn align with the aspects of workplace culture (how we think, act and interact). We discuss how to build a culture of trust in AI, essential for successful collaboration and highlight a critical distinction : humans interpret data semantically, giving it meaning and purpose, while AI processes it syntactically, based on patterns and probabilities. This difference impacts decision-making and ethical considerations. Leaders of the future must be honest about and clearly see what tasks should be augmented using AI and how the time saved should be spent, i.e. what does AI do best now and, consequently, what should humans do better?How are you ensuring that you, your teams & your organisation are developing the skills necessary to complement AI’s analytical power and drive results together. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -      Democratising access to a hybrid skill set means defining how to navigate the ‘fear vs. opportunity’ narrative of human potential in a world of AI, harking back to ‘man vs. machine’ as opposed to embracing a ‘man with machine’ approach.-      Digital transformation requires a hybrid skill set that fulfils the three different facets of transformation (cognitive, behavioural and emotional), which in turn align with the aspects of workplace culture (how we think, act and interact).-      The cognitive transformation element, i.e. decision-making, is the most problematic for leaders as humans still believe in the old way of making decisions; leaders are most exposed to this risk due to their past successes.-      In the words of Rasmus Hougaard, “ego is the worst enemy of leadership” and hampers effective decision-making - AI makes new things possible and humans are taken aback by the exponential rate at which we must learn and unlearn.-      Prompting, data sense-making and re-perception mean that we need to craft better input for AI but also ask humans better questions - unexpected questions open our minds to novelty and creativity.-      Our inherited educational model rewards good answers, not good questions, yet this stifles creativity and re-perception; the latter goes against the human (and educational) grain, but AI tools represent a good sparring partner.-      Rather than a product-centric approach, we are now called upon to make sense of data, but AI and humans interpret data differently: humans interpret it semantically (adding their own perspective); AI interprets it syntactically (as tokens without understanding meaning).-      The problem inherent to AI is that it does not understand or give meaning to its decisions and has no conscience about the action taken - humans must have responsibility for giving data meaning and not outsource this to AI.-      AI learns on a binary basis without context; tasks that are too demanding generate bad outcomes due to a lack of adaptability and long-term perspective - AI requires a predictable environment to perform well.-      Uncertain tasks result in hallucinations, generalisation and transparency problems (how conclusions are reached); hallucinations result from the need to provide an answer, and humans need to be able to recognise this.-      AI does not fail often and boosts the need for humans to accept failure and fail more through smart failures – the value of learning is higher than the cost, but automation reduces the scope for failure.-      Emotionally in terms of transformation, what does it mean to feel in the world of AI? AI’s empathy is code, not consciousness; it cannot prevent the uncanny valley effect of providing empathy but not reciprocating feeling.-      Leaders must embody such reciprocation, blending efficiency with the HITL (human-in-the-loop) empathy touchpoint; the complexity of the human discernment process requires building a culture of trust in AI.-      The cognitive dimension is about training people to understand how AI works and how to use it well to collaborate successfully: Do people feel reassured or scared? Do they feel that AI complements or substitutes them?-      Leadership endorsement of the tool increases positive perception and builds trust as the lubricant for collaboration. Messaging and communication are also important, as is agency, both individually and collectively.-      Outsourcing decisions to AI does not relieve us of responsibility - AI is not responsible legally, morally or technically, and our responsibility increases the more we outsource (risk of the ‘many hands’ problem).-      Leaders of the future must be honest about and clearly see what tasks should be augmented using AI and how the time saved should be spent, i.e. what does AI do best now and, consequently, what should humans do better?-      AI is not coming for humans - those humans who use AI well are coming for those who don’t; there must be an understanding of the sense of urgency as we cannot afford to miss the boat. Find out more about Andrea and his work here https://andreaiorio.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreaiorio/https://betweenyouand.ai/ 

"Any AI you use today will be the worst AI you will use. You need to really learn how to challenge AI and learn how to have AI challenge you."Rasmus and I delve into the research and questions of how leaders can embrace AI to become more human in their leadership, and how can this accompany them on the journey of navigating uncertainty and a more transactional workplace. Currently less than 20% of leaders are ready for AI, despite it being a strategic necessity – it is an uncomfortable prospect that AI will take our jobs, but we can counter this by embracing AI and being better human leaders. AI democratises knowledge, strategic thinking and decision-making - it will flatten organisations and leaders must embrace this, aiming to embody gratitude, humility and selflessness. This shift from ego to eco, and from doing to being is the key to leveraging what AI can enable in our humanity. Leaders must guard against cognitive laziness and human disconnection caused by AI, and actively challenge its outputs to ensure true human engagement.AI surpasses humans in information access and processing speed, making it unwise for humans to compete in those areas. Instead, leaders should focus on what AI cannot replicate : Awareness involves understanding oneself, emotions, biases, and others. Wisdom is the ability to ask good discerning questions, distinct from AI’s knowledge. Compassion stems from a true intention to support & connect on a human level, which AI lacks despite its ability to process emotional data.Rasmus shares his research and insights from his latest book 'more human' and from working with leaders and companies across the globe on how to create more human centred leadership in today's workplace. The main insights you'll get from this episode are : -      AI augmented leadership requires three core competencies of awareness, wisdom and compassion: AI will have more information and faster processing power than any human brain but cannot be completely human.-      AI can help make us more aware if we use it as a sparring partner, providing it with everything there is to know about us to help us make decisions based on multiple different perspectives - context and mindset are vital here.-      Our neuroanatomy is uniquely human in that we perceive, discern, then respond (sentience). In terms of leadership, this translates to awareness (of biases, emotions and systems), discernment (wisdom not knowledge) and compassion.-      We are formatted to ‘do’, but AI requires us to react using our soft skills and human traits - being human at work is the blueprint for future leadership, driven moreover by purpose.-      It is the choice of every individual leader to ask not just what AI can do for me, but also to me: AI makes us cognitively lazy given that it is confidently both wrong and right - we must not fall prey to accepting its output without question.-      AI also has huge user bias – we must challenge it and have it challenge us, deploying mental hygiene when engaging with AI to make us more aware, wise and compassionate, fostering a mindset of equanimity.-      Having an AI proxy carries the risk of putting information in the hands of a tech firm, but once it has all the requisite information, it can provide very helpful answers in the form of outside-in views with psychometrics, etc.-      Asking AI for compassion-based responses highlights blind spots and gives actionable feedback to push us back into human compassion and awareness, e.g. asking for the worst possible outcomes of a potential decision.-      The workplace is more humanly disconnected than ever – despite digital connection – and leaders can radically reimagine communication and collaboration by asking AI for inspiration.-      We can use the speed of change to act intentionally but must decide whether we do it in humanly healthy or unhealthy ways, i.e. using some of the time we save to pursue human tasks like conversation, reflection, strategic long-term planning.-      AI democratises knowledge, strategic thinking and decision-making - it will flatten organisations and leaders must embrace this, aiming to embody gratitude, humility and selflessness.-      The hope is that AI will elevate humans to accomplish more creative work and elevate leaders to become beacons of humanity – we are called upon to reinvent ourselves, learning to toggle between human capacities and the AI algorithms.Find out more about Rasmus and his work here : https://www.potentialproject.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/rasmushougaard/?originalSubdomain=dk