

The Power of Music Thinking
Christof Zürn
What can the dynamics of music teach us about navigating today’s complex world? The Power of Music Thinking podcast dives deep into this potent analogy.
Host Christof Zürn, founder of MusicThinking.com, explores how concepts like listening, tuning, rhythm, and improvisation translate into powerful tools for business, creativity, and leadership.Through engaging interviews with global thought leaders, designers, entrepreneurs, and artists, discover practical ways to improve collaboration, spark innovation, and lead teams more effectively. Learn how to listen differently, find your team’s rhythm, and embrace improvisation in the face of uncertainty. And there are special episodes around a theme or experiment.For anyone fascinated by the intersection of creativity, strategy, and human dynamics – subscribe to The Power of Music Thinking.
Host Christof Zürn, founder of MusicThinking.com, explores how concepts like listening, tuning, rhythm, and improvisation translate into powerful tools for business, creativity, and leadership.Through engaging interviews with global thought leaders, designers, entrepreneurs, and artists, discover practical ways to improve collaboration, spark innovation, and lead teams more effectively. Learn how to listen differently, find your team’s rhythm, and embrace improvisation in the face of uncertainty. And there are special episodes around a theme or experiment.For anyone fascinated by the intersection of creativity, strategy, and human dynamics – subscribe to The Power of Music Thinking.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Apr 1, 2025 • 59min
Science, Music and Regulating Emotions with Hauke Egermann
What can people and organisations learn from science and music? Why should we care? Are there universal mechanisms that are valid all over the world to all human species? Or is everything an individual experience?
Today, we talk with Hauke Egermann, Professor of Systematical Musicology at the University of Cologne.
We speak about universal mechanisms that are valid all over the world; we learn from research with an isolated culture in Congo, the Pygmies from Mebenzélé, that refuse to practise negative music and have different songs to regulate their emotions. Songs against fear, anger, or, among others, music to protect hunters in the rainforest.
How do they respond to music they have never heard or connected with? What does it evoke, and how does this relate to Canadian Indigenous people and the listening patterns in the Western world?
Hauke also shares the Music Date concert with us, where the audience's emotional reaction is tracked in the first tutti part of a concert to then separate and assign them to eight different mini-concerts around one emotion based on their responses.
Show notes
Connect with Hauke: https://musikwissenschaft.phil-fak.uni-koeln.de/en/mitarbeiter-innen/professoren-innen/hauke-egermann
Mentioned paper about universal emotion-related psychophysiological responses: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2014.01341/full
Google scholar profile: https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=de&user=aSSMPDoAAAAJ&view_op=list_works&sortby=pubdate
Related podcasts:
A love letter to sound with Nina Kraus: https://musicthinking.com/a-love-letter-to-sound-with-nina-kraus/
Standing still with Alexander Refsum Jensenius: https://musicthinking.com/standing-still-with-alexander-refsum-jensenius/

Mar 11, 2025 • 1h 1min
Everything about Orchestration with Robin Hoffmann
A few episodes ago, I asked the question What is Orchestration? This was because I saw a lot of different orchestrators, nota bene, non-musical orchestrators with job titles like Design Orchestrator, Value Network Orchestrator, Data Orchestrator and Innovation Orchestrator, just to name a few. This is an ongoing research, and I am writing a paper about what people do when they say they are orchestrating.
But today, we flip the side and talk with a music orchestrator, or, shall I say, an original orchestrator?
We speak with Robin Hoffmann, a prize-winning composer, arranger and orchestrator from Berlin. We talk about orchestration in music and the difference between composing, orchestrating, arranging and conducting in Hollywood films, games and concerts.
This is a deep dive into the music industry and all its facets and an inspiration for everyone orchestrating something.
Robin shares with us many insights and a great story.
Show notes
Connect with Robin: https://www.robin-hoffmann.com/
Show support
Please choose one or more of the ‘three ways to support the show’:
Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps! I appreciate your support; it helps the show!
Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and/or the Jam Cards at a 20% discount using musicthinking20 at the check-out of the BIS Publishers website only.

Feb 25, 2025 • 48min
Inspiring Books on Music Thinking
Let’s talk about books today. What was the last book that inspired you? Was it a novel, a non-fiction book, a design book, a music book or a cookbook?
In this episode, I share three books that inspired my sound way of thinking, experiencing the world with an open ear and what has led to developing music thinking, the framework, the jam cards, the book and the podcast.
I will briefly discuss Nada Brahma by Joachim Ernst Berend, The Soundscape by R. Murray Schafer, and The Glass Bead Game, the prize-winning novel by Hermann Hesse. These three books directly and indirectly influenced the ideas in The Power of Music Thinking.
But my book also influenced another author, and he used parts of the music thinking framework described in the book to explain his idea of rebels in digital development in Belgium.
Today I speak with Geert de Mol, a CDO for the leading Belgian Bank for 16 years, during their development of ‘the best app in the world’. Geert is a music lover of rock and pop, and he shares with us how music thinking and the book helped him to pen his story.
Show notes
Connect with Geert: https://www.linkedin.com/in/geert-van-mol-1779812/
Music from the world of Anathem: https://soundcloud.com/ztutz/sets/iolet-music-from-the-world-of-anathem
Show support
Please choose one or more of the ‘three ways to support the show’:
Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps! I appreciate your support; it helps the show!
Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and/or the Jam Cards at a 20% discount using musicthinking20 at the check-out of the BIS Publishers website only.

Jan 31, 2025 • 51min
Sonic Branding with Willemijn van Hussen
Today we speak with Willemijn van Hussen - a trained concert pianist, strategy consultant - co-founder and owner of Sonic Branding agency TAMBR.
We talk about the power of our senses and how sound can make a difference in recognising a brand and what it stands for. Willemijn shares with us insights from an audio branding project, with a sonic logo, brand anthem and different sound assets that are used strategically.
Among others, we hear the brand anthem of Lazy Vegan and how this might be different from other brands in the industry. Willemijn gives tips for students who work on sound assignments and for brands that want to make a start with sonic branding.
Show notes
Connect with Willemijn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/willemijnvanhussenfuhring/
TAMBR Sonic Branding Agency: https://www.tambr.nl/en/
Steve Keller Audio Alchemist: https://musicthinking.com/blend-sound-science-with-sound-art-to-make-sound-decisions-with-steve-keller/
Show support
Please choose one or more of the ‘three ways to support the show’:
Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps! I appreciate your support; it helps the show!
Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and/or the Jam Cards at a 20% discount using musicthinking20 at the check-out of the BIS Publishers website only.

Dec 21, 2024 • 49min
The role of emotions and rationality in research with Leonoor Opstelten
We end this year with Leonoor Opstelten, a young researcher who used improvisation and music as an experimental approach for her thesis on forest and nature conservation. With this approach, she won the Birgit Elands thesis prize just a few weeks ago.
In her thesis, she included five piano pieces accompanying five different storylines - patterns and themes that resulted from her research.
Let's listen to the research, its story, and the beautiful music.
Show notes
Connect with Leonoor: www.linkedin.com/in/leonoor-opstelten-088957297
Download her thesis: https://edepot.wur.nl/657505
Show support
Please choose one or more of the ‘three ways to support the show’:
Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps! I appreciate your support; it helps the show!
Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and/or the Jam Cards at a 20% discount using musicthinking20 at the check-out of the BIS Publishers website only.

Nov 29, 2024 • 38min
Thinking Music - Music Thinking - special epsiode
Christof Zürn talks about music thinking, the music thinking framework, and JAMMIN’ before SCORE and what this means in the context of co-creation in the business. How does this sound?
It sounds marvellous; we hear a lot of musical experts from the new (digital) album of MRZ - an ambient improvisation trio - and get an explanation of how this relates to the music thinking practise.
Show notes
Thinking Music Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0yITUGcz4pH8qU0FbN4vhc?si=bdb26633538a4495
Download Music Thinking Framework: https://musicthinking.com/download-music-thinking-instruments/
MRZ on Bandcamp: https://mrznl.bandcamp.com/album/improvisations-in-an-ambient-space
Show support
Please choose one or more of the ‘three ways to support the show’:
Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps! I appreciate your support; it helps the show!
Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and/or the Jam Cards at a 20% discount using musicthinking20 at the check-out of the BIS Publishers website only.

Oct 21, 2024 • 15min
What is orchestration?
What is orchestration? And
What is an orchestrator? What do they do?
Is everybody now a musician or music thinker?
Is it important? And Why should we care?
What challenges around orchestration are there in different fields and can music, music thinking or the grandmaster of orchestration, Rimski-Korsakov, help?
In this short episode, I discuss a pre-research concerning orchestration in different fields. If you are an orchestrator or use orchestration to explain your work, please fill in the form below.
Show notes
Please fill in the Pre-Research Survey about Orchestration: https://forms.office.com/e/MJchG9yEgP
Principles of Orchestration by Rimski-Korsakov on Project Gutenberg: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/33900/33900-h/33900-h.htm#rimsky1
Prize-winning orchestrator from Berlin: https://musicthinking.podbean.com/e/everything-about-orchestration-with-robin-hoffmann/
Show support
Please choose one or more of the ‘three ways to support the show’:
Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps! I appreciate your support; it helps the show!
Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and/or the Jam Cards at a 20% discount using musicthinking20 at the check-out of the BIS Publishers website only.

Sep 8, 2024 • 54min
Strings between MBA and AI with Anna Filochowska
join us in our conversation and hear more about the journey from Poland to Germany and the US, from playing violin in a top-notch orchestra to getting an MBA at Stanford University Graduate School of Business and writing a white paper about AI and music.
Show Notes
Connect with Anna: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aniaf/
Berlin Philharmonic: https://www.berliner-philharmoniker.de/en/
AI White Paper: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7228754698395148288/
Performing at Stanford: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJIjLMMMuYg
Show support
Please choose one or more of the ‘three ways to support the show’:
Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps! I appreciate your support; it helps the show!
Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and the Jam Cards at a 20% discount using musicthinking20 at the check-out of the BIS Publishers website only.

Aug 3, 2024 • 52min
Sound Walk in the Summer with Christof Zürn
Today is a special episode of the podcast, not just because of the 50th episode anniversary but because there will be no guests today. Instead, you'll be immersed in a unique sound walk experience, a journey of sound I recorded in July in Italy. This is not just a regular episode; it's a sonic adventure.
Open your mind and listening brain because, as we learned in the last episode with Professor Nina Kraus, you can only hear what you know.
But now let's get on our trip or, better yet, the sound walk of the summer.
Every two years, my wife and I, visit the Art Biennale of Venice. It's not just a visit, it's a learning experience, an inspiration, a ritual about creativity in the broadest sense. It's about un-learning, re-learning, and encountering new things that make you rethink. And this time, I brought my recording device with me on a sound walk through the Biennale of Venice.
Be my guest while I was walking with my ears and microphone open on this unique sound walk.
Show Notes
David Rothenberg website and books: http://www.davidrothenberg.net/
Biennale Arte Venice website: https://www.labiennale.org/en/art/2024
Italian Pavillion, Duo Qui/Two here: https://www.duequi-tohear.it/project
More on Deep Listening and Pauline Oliveros:
https://musicthinking.com/deep-listening-with-sharon-stewart/
Show Support
Please choose one or more of the ‘three ways to support the show’:
Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps! I appreciate your support; it helps the show!
Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and the Jam Cards at a 20% discount using musicthinking20 at the check-out of the BIS Publishers website only.

Jun 23, 2024 • 51min
A Love Letter to Sound with Nina Kraus
We don't just hear; we engage with sounds. Our hearing is always on, and we can't close our ears the way we close our eyes, yet we can ignore unimportant sounds. Making sense of sound is one of the most challenging jobs we ask our brains to do. But how does this work?
Today, we speak with Dr. Nina Kraus, scientist, inventor, book author, Professor of Neurobiology at Northwestern University, and Director of BrainVolts.
Nina's research reveals that our daily lives, filled with sound, play a significant role in shaping how our brain interprets the sounds we hear. This influence can be both positive, as seen in musicians and bilinguals, and negative, as in the case of concussion, hearing loss, and language disorders. Sound, therefore, leaves a profound imprint on our identities. Nina talks about the partnership of sound and the brain and how sound processing drives many of the brain's core functions.
To give you an idea of our conversation, there is a short, surprising sound example in the intro of the episode that will make you wonder! Because we only hear what we know, we have to hear and listen a lot to better understand our world and ourselves.
So, relax and join our conversation about exploring sound and listening! Or how Nina also talks about her work and book: It is a love letter to sound.
Show Notes
Brainvolts website www.brainvolts.northwestern.edu
Book Of Sound Mind: https://brainvolts.northwestern.edu/of-sound-mind/
Show support
Please choose one or more of the ‘three ways to support the show’:
Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps!
Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and the Jam Cards at a 20% discount using musicthinking20 at the check-out of the BIS Publishers website only.


