Paternal

Everyone at some point has ridden in the back of an Uber, but how often do we think about the people behind the wheel, or how they got there? Jonathan Rigsby had a master’s degree and a full-time job when he gave his first Uber ride, reeling from a painful divorce and seeking a way to help support his young son. But Uber’s promises of big bucks and a flexible schedule were soon replaced by long nights filled with despair as Rigsby realized he, like millions of other Americans, had been trapped in the cycle of the gig economy. On this episode of Paternal, Rigsby recounts how his divorce led him to the brink of poverty and why he picked up a second job driving all over town, but also what it’s really like to work for Uber, where wages are never quite what they seem and you can still feel lonely when the backseat is full. Rigsby is the author of Drive: Scraping by in Uber’s America, which is available wherever you buy books.

Peter Doocy isn’t the first guest to appear on Paternal as the son of a very famous father, but he’s definitely the only one who can claim to have an “adverserial bromance” with President Joe Biden. As the Senior White House Correspondent for Fox News, Doocy’s made it his job since 2021 to pepper the president and members of his administration with questions about immigration, inflation or international affairs, and in the process has become one of the network’s most recognizable figures - just like his father. On this episode of Paternal, Doocy discusses what it was like to grow up as the son of the affable “Fox and Friends” host Steve Doocy and if the family name ever held him back as a journalist, how he approaches fame, fatherhood and social media, and how becoming a dad himself has changed his opinion of Biden as the country’s most famous empathetic father figure. Doocy is the host of the three-part series entitled “Strike Zone: The Congressional Baseball Shooting,” which is now streaming on Fox Nation.

Paternal celebrates Father’s Day with a special episode paying tribute to all the new dads out there celebrating the holiday for the first time. Three past guests are back on the show to offer their thoughts on the early days of fatherhood and the challenges of becoming a new father, but also on the value of patience, the power a village has to raise a child, and why it’s so important to reconsider what we mean when we think of the word “sacrifice.” Guests on this episode of Paternal include: Author and professor Jesse Thistle, who penned the 2020 memoir From the Ashes and the 2022 collection of poems and stories, Stars and Scars. CNN political commentator and attorney Bakari Sellers, author of the 2024 release The Moment: Thoughts on the Race Reckoning That Wasn't and How We All Can Move Forward Now. Author and Wilshire Boulevard Temple Senior Rabbi Steve Leder, who wrote the 2022 book For You When I Am Gone: Twelve Essential Questions to Tell a Life Story.

Michael Andor Brodeur is a “big man.” That’s the term he uses to describe himself after more than 30 years of lifting weights - some of those spent as a powerlifter, and all of those spent not just trying to get fit, but to get big. But for all the time he’s spent in the gym over the years, he’s probably spent just as much time thinking about the way men think about the connection between men, muscles, and masculinity. On this episode of Paternal, Brodeur discusses the concept of getting big and why some men are so motivated to do so, the connection between how men build their bodies and their inability to express themselves emotionally, how some men use weightlifting to deal with issues like anxiety, grief and addiction, and why the gym is a place where men are free to fail and support one another when they do fail, two things they might not be encouraged to do in other parts of society. Brodeur is the classical music critic at the Washington Post and the author of the book, Swole: The Making of Men and the Meaning of Muscle, which is available wherever you buy books.

When you’re talking to Bakari Sellers about fatherhood, you’re talking to a man who truly is a link between generations. As the son of a famous Civil Rights activist who befriended the likes of Stokely Carmichael and Martin Luther King, Jr., Sellers feels the weight of expectations from his ancestors and his community. And as the father of two young twins, he feels the pressure of helping ensure the world is better for them than it ever was for him. But what happens when that pressure sometimes feels like too much? And what happens when, despite all the work he and his father have done to make it so, he simply can’t tell his kids everything will be okay? On this episode of Paternal, Sellers discusses why he sees his life as an extension of his father’s journey, how he copes with anxiety, his relationship to anger, and why he thinks the U.S. has reached a nadir after George Floyd’s death failed to produce a racial reckoning so many expected. Sellers is a political commentator for CNN and a former state legislator from South Carolina, as well as the author of the new book The Moment, which is available now wherever you buy books.

If you were a child of the 1980s and early 1990s, you lived through a golden age for sitcom dads. From The Cosby Show to Growing Pains and Roseanne to The Simpsons, fathers of all kinds ruled the airwaves for roughly a decade, providing an entire generation of wide-eyed kids a glimpse into what a father should look like and, for better or worse, what a family can be. But did these portrayals of paternal figures do more harm than good, and how did Friends and Seinfeld land a fatal blow to the fate of sitcom dads? Comedy historian and author Saul Austerlitz joins this episode of Paternal to take a deep dive on the history of the family sitcom, tracing the genre’s roots back to the dawn of television. He discusses how fathers were first portrayed in the 1950s and how they have evolved during each decade thereafter, including iconic sitcom dads on Leave it to Beaver, All in the Family, The Cosby Show, Married With Children, Roseanne, and The Simpsons. Austerlitz is a faculty member at NYU who teaches courses on writing about American comedy and writing about television drama, and he’s the author of six books, including on the history of sitcoms and the success of the hit series Friends. He recently wrote an article in The Atlantic entitled “Dad Culture Has Nothing to Do With Parenting.”

Paternal listeners email the show regularly with requests to cover various topics on the show. Some are serious and some are silly, but one request just keeps coming: How do we teach our kids resilience? Dr. Dennis S. Charney is a leading expert in the study of resilience and has spent decades examining the causes of anxiety, fear and depression. He’s also interviewed prisoners of war, victims of rape and assault, survivors of natural disasters, and frontline healthcare workers about the traits that have helped them overcome trauma, all in an effort to better understand how we can all learn to be more resilient. On this episode of Paternal, Dr. Charney discusses some of the most compelling factors to building resilience in yourself and your kids, including facing your fears, developing social groups, and establishing core values for you and your family. He also recounts a life-threatening experience that tested his own resilience, decades after living a charmed life studying the challenges of others. Dr. Charney is the co-author of Resilience: The Science of Mastering Life’s Greatest Challenges.

Rob Flanagan is a husband and father who lives with his family outside of Boulder, Colorado, and roughly one year ago he and his wife Dana began an ordeal that changed their lives. After a few days of fighting a cold and a slight fever while missing out on attending kindergarten, their daughter Saoirse was suddenly hospitalized and then intubated, and it was unclear if she would ever wake up.  On this episode of Paternal, Flanagan recounts the experience of spending days in the ICU with his wife while they awaited word on the health of their daughter, what the doctor’s diagnosis meant for their family, and how he learned to embrace both acceptance and hope on the path to becoming a better father.

Growing up on the Wasauksing First Nation indigenous reserve in Ontario, journalist and bestselling author Waubgeshig Rice learned early in his life about the value of culture and community. But as an Anishinaabe young man schooled in the challenges his ancestors faced as indigenous people in Canada, Rice was also keenly aware of what happens when a community loses its connection to its history, traditions and culture, and how men can easily fall victim to the effects of intergenerational trauma. On this 2022 episode of Paternal, Rice recounts his experience on Wasauksing First Nation and his sometimes conflicted emotions about growing up on the reserve, as well as the challenges his own father faced in trying to reclaim the family’s Anishinaabe identity. Rice - who penned the celebrated apocalyptic thriller Moon of the Crusted Snow as well as the recently released follow-up Moon of the Turning Leaves, and was dubbed “one of the leading voices reshaping North American science fiction, horror and fantasy” by the New York Times - also discusses the emotional strain he experienced after the complicated birth of his first son, and how masculinity and vulnerability are valued on “the rez.”

Most people know Kwame Alexander as the Newbery Medal-winning author of The Crossover, the bestselling children’s book about two young brothers hooked on basketball. Long before he was an award-winning author, however, Alexander spent his time writing love poems, in an attempt to impress women and find his voice as a poet and a young man.  But three decades and two marriages later, Alexander is a 54-year-old father of two now reconsidering those relationships from his past, and what exactly he knows - and doesn’t know - about love. And in order to do that, he’s thinking more about the marriage his parents modeled for him as a child, as well as what he learned about love and relationships from his father, a hard-nosed Baptist minister who rarely showed affection. Alexander’s book, Why Fathers Cry at Night, is available wherever you buy books, as is his latest collection of poems, This Is the Honey: An Anthology of Contemporary Black Poets. Episode Timestamps: 00:00 - 07:25 - Intro 07:25 - 09:50 - on learning to love from watching our parents’ relationship 09:50 - 19:47 - discussing Kwame Alexander’s father’s version of tough love 19:47 - 24:26 - digging into his father’s jazz collection 26:31 - 32:40 - on the vulnerability required to write about broken relationships 32:40 - 35:36 - on talking to our parents and children about love Read The Transcript For This Episode