The Good Fight

Samuel Goldman, associate professor of political science at the George Washington University, is an intellectual historian and political commentator. In his new book, After Nationalism: Being American in an Age of Division, he criticizes traditional notions of patriotism while trying to lay out how members of modern nations can preserve some form of pride of country.In this week’s conversation, Samuel Goldman and Yascha Mounk talk about different notions of patriotism and debate whether strong participation in local institutions is the key to restoring a healthier political climate.This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.Email: podcast@persuasion.community Website: http://www.persuasion.communityPodcast production by John T. Williams, and Brendan RuberryLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesConnect with us!Spotify | Apple | GoogleTwitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasionYoutube: Yascha MounkLinkedIn: Persuasion CommunityLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ambassador Eric Edelman was Under Secretary of Defense for Policy in the George W. Bush administration and served as the U.S. ambassador to Turkey and Finland. A strident critic of former President Donald Trump, he is among the foremost voices of the “Never Trump” movement.In a wide-ranging conversation, Ambassador Edelman and Yascha Mounk discuss the trajectory of the Republican party and Donald Trump’s political future, Turkey’s illiberal slide under President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, and the fragility of democratic norms worldwide.This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.Email: podcast@persuasion.community Website: http://www.persuasion.communityPodcast production by John T. Williams, and Brendan RuberryLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesConnect with us!Spotify | Apple | GoogleTwitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasionYoutube: Yascha MounkLinkedIn: Persuasion CommunityLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kmele Foster is a heterodox writer who hosts The Fifth Column podcast. He recently joined with David French and Thomas Chatterton Williams, members of Persuasion's Board of Advisors, to oppose laws which seek to ban discussion of critical race theory from American schools in the New York Times.In this week’s conversation, which was recorded with a live Zoom audience as part of the Persuasion festival, Kmele Foster and Yascha Mounk discuss the fixation on race in current political discourse, why it obscures important truths, and how to form relations with one another that recognize both human individuality and our shared experiences.This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.Email: podcast@persuasion.community Website: http://www.persuasion.communityPodcast production by John T. Williams, and Brendan RuberryLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesConnect with us!Spotify | Apple | GoogleTwitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasionYoutube: Yascha MounkLinkedIn: Persuasion CommunityLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Alex Tabarrok is a professor of economics and co-author, with Tyler Cowen, of the blog Marginal Revolution. A strident critic of institutional failure during the pandemic, Tabarrok has applied his libertarian perspective to a wide range of topics, including public health, regulation and the law, criminal justice, and entrepreneurship.In this week’s conversation, Alex Tabarrok and Yascha Mounk discuss the failure of American institutions to respond to COVID-19, the cost of insufficient economic innovation, and the possibility of building a more agile and resilient American society.This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.Email: podcast@persuasion.community Website: http://www.persuasion.communityPodcast production by John T. Williams, and Brendan RuberryLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesConnect with us!Spotify | Apple | GoogleTwitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasionYoutube: Yascha MounkLinkedIn: Persuasion CommunityLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Roya Hakakian is an Iranian dissident, poet, and writer. She has long been a fierce critic of the regime. But in her latest book, A Beginner's Guide to America, she sets her sights on the United States, setting out to explain why the citizens of liberal democracies should value their political systems despite their flaws.In this week’s conversation, Roya Hakakian and Yascha Mounk discuss Iran’s democratic prospects, the state of democracy around the world, and why the benefits of freedom are often lost on those who have always enjoyed them.This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.Email: podcast@persuasion.community Website: http://www.persuasion.communityPodcast production by John T. Williams, and Brendan RuberryLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesConnect with us!Spotify | Apple | GoogleTwitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasionYoutube: Yascha MounkLinkedIn: Persuasion CommunityLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Adrian Wooldridge, the political editor of The Economist, has written on topics as diverse as Alan Greenspan, the history of radicalism in British psychology, and the evolution of the modern Republican Party. In his latest book, The Aristocracy of Talent: How Meritocracy Made the Modern World, he seeks to counter recent attacks on the ideal of meritocracy.In this week’s conversation, Adrian Woolridge and Yascha Mounk discuss the hidden radicalism of the meritocratic ideal, China's embrace of meritocracy, and the West's misguided rejection of it.This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.Email: podcast@persuasion.community Website: http://www.persuasion.communityPodcast production by John T. Williams, and Brendan RuberryLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesConnect with us!Spotify | Apple | GoogleTwitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasionYoutube: Yascha MounkLinkedIn: Persuasion CommunityLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Patrick Sharkey spent years studying the causes for the national decline in crime that took place from the 1990s to the 2010s. A Professor of Sociology and Public Affairs at Princeton, and the author of Uneasy Peace: The Great Crime Decline, the Renewal of City Life, and the Next War on Violence, he warned that it would prove unsustainable to rely on aggressive policing and mass incarceration to keep the peace in America's cities. Now, he is ideally placed to answer why violent crime has surged in the past year and what to do about that.In this week’s conversation, Patrick Sharkey and Yascha Mounk discuss the recent rise in violent crime, how this trend hits disadvantaged communities the hardest, and why neither defunding the police nor returning to the old model of keeping the peace offers a real solution.This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.Email: podcast@persuasion.community Website: http://www.persuasion.communityPodcast production by John T. Williams, and Brendan RuberryLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesConnect with us!Spotify | Apple | GoogleTwitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasionYoutube: Yascha MounkLinkedIn: Persuasion CommunityLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sabrina Tavernise is a national correspondent for The New York Times. She covered the Iraq War for the Times, where in 2005 she was one of the first people to document ethnic cleansing, and has reported on life in post-Soviet Russia for a variety of publications. She was a first-hand witness to the storming of the US Capitol.In this week’s conversation, Sabrina Tavernise and Yascha Mounk discuss Tavernise's experience in the Capitol on January 6, the roots of violence and civil war around the world, and why peace is elusive once violence becomes the norm.This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.Email: podcast@persuasion.community Website: http://www.persuasion.communityPodcast production by John T. Williams, and Brendan RuberryLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesConnect with us!Spotify | Apple | GoogleTwitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasionYoutube: Yascha MounkLinkedIn: Persuasion CommunityLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Niall Ferguson is a Scottish-American historian whose interests span from WW1 to Henry Kissinger to the history of money. His most recent book, Doom—completed at the height of the COVID crisis—attempts to rethink the distinction between “man-made” and “natural” disasters. Ferguson examines the historical record from Vesuvius to viruses and concludes that societies are guilty of repeated misjudgments and delusions; but he avoids ascribing any immutable pattern to the unpredictable trajectory of disasters. He is the Milbank Family Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University and a senior faculty fellow of the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs at Harvard.In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Niall Ferguson discuss the dangers of bureaucratization in disaster-management, debate populism and the threat from China, and examine the common threads linking catastrophes throughout history.This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.Email: podcast@persuasion.community Website: http://www.persuasion.communityPodcast production by John T. Williams, Brendan Ruberry and Rebecca RashidLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesConnect with us!Spotify | Apple | GoogleTwitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasionYoutube: Yascha MounkLinkedIn: Persuasion CommunityLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Arthur Brooks is a leading authority on the science and philosophy of happiness. In his books—most recently “Love Your Enemies”—and his regular contributions to The Atlantic, he urges us to act smarter in our pursuit of the good life. Combining insights from social science with wisdom from ancient sages, his unique blend of practical advice and philosophical depth serves as the perfect antidote to what he calls our “culture of contempt”. He holds professorships in the Practice of Public Leadership and Management Practice at Harvard, and was formerly the president of the American Enterprise Institute.In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Arthur Brooks discuss the biological and circumstantial origins of happiness, debate the necessity of transcendence, and explore stoic philosophy’s relevance for today’s polarized politics.This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight.If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.Email: podcast@persuasion.community Website: http://www.persuasion.communityPodcast production by John T. Williams, Brendan Ruberry and Rebecca RashidLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesConnect with us!Spotify | Apple | GoogleTwitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasionYoutube: Yascha MounkLinkedIn: Persuasion CommunityLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices