Show notes:Links:Snohomish Centennial trailIndie Hackers AMAIntro CRMFull transcript:Starr:All right. Welcome back. Welcome back, everybody. So we took a little break. We're going to have her hot vax summer, but that-Josh:Hot vax summer.Starr:It turns out that was the mirage. It turns out that was a mirage.Josh:Well, it did reach 112 degrees in Portland. So it was hot.Starr:There you go. Yeah. The summer never existed. It was just an illusion caused by our overwhelming thirst for lots of things.Josh:Mirage.Ben:Well, there were a couple of weeks there that I thought, "Yeah. This is going to work out. And then Delta.Starr:Yeah. It was a couple of nice weeks, wouldn't it?Ben:Yeah. It was. It was.Starr:Except for the panic about, "Oh, crap. I need to learn how to deal with people again."Josh:Wouldn't it be wonderful when we can just look back on those two weeks and just remember those last good two weeks?Ben:Yeah. Went 112 in Portland. That's pretty bad. It got to 116 in my garage.Starr:Yeah.Ben:It's pretty warm.Josh:Yeah. That's like melt some things if you're not careful.Ben:I did not know this until well, at the beginning of the pandemic, that there was actually a special class of freezer called the garage freezer because at the beginning of the pandemic I wanted to have a freezer in my garage. I'm like, "Okay. I'm just going to go to Home Depot and buy a freezer." Oh, no, no, no, no. You can't just buy a freezer to put in your garage. You have to have a garage freezer to put it in your garage. So we have a garage freezer and even with 116 in the garage, the stuff stayed frozen. So I guess it actually works.Josh:Nice. Yeah. My freezer survived as well.Starr:I mean, not having a garage freezer in your garage is almost as bad as wearing white after labor day, or is it before labor day? I forget.Josh:I don't know. I never wear white.Starr:I just don't wear white.Josh:Yeah.Starr:Yeah.Starr:Stains too easily.Josh:I just always dress like I'm going to a funeral.Starr:All right. So today's going to be a little bit of a short episode. So we should probably get to the content.Ben:I thought we were already in the content.Starr:I know our reader.Josh:Yeah. It might be short. I don't know.Starr:Oh, we are?Josh:Our podcasts tend to have a mind of their own.Ben:That's true.Starr:Well, that's true. But we've got this Ask Me Anything schedule.Josh:Oh, yeah.Starr:20 minutes from now.Josh:Well, the great thing about asynchronous ask me anything is that they're asynchronous so you can post them even while you're on a podcast and answer the questions whenever you want.Starr:Yeah. Maybe you can, but my brain does not work that way.Josh:Oh, I've got it all queued up.Starr:I've got a one track mind.Josh:It's just a button press. We're locked and loaded.Starr:Oh, you're like Kramer. You've got the button.Josh:No. I'm ready to go.Starr:Sell sell sell!Josh:So yeah. At 10:30, we're recording this podcast. It's 10:08 right now. Pacific. And we're going to be doing an ask me anything AMA on the indie hackers forums.Starr:Yes. And it's a last minute affair as of 20 minutes ago. I didn't have an indie hackers invite code. We're running around scrambling.Josh:Yeah.Starr:Yeah. Ben wanted to try a new podcast recording software, and I'm just like, "No. I can't handle this amount of change in my life right now."Josh:We need to title this episode, live from the indie hackers backstage, by the way.Josh:[crosstalk]Starr:Oh, yeah. I don't know if you like a live album.Josh:Yeah.Starr:Okay.Josh:We're doing it live.Starr:Well, so Ben suggested, when you talk about one work thing and one vacation thing we did. And I guess, I'll start because I didn't actually have a vacation. I just got sick a lot, which I didn't get COVID, but there was some sort of bug that was going around and I got it and I was out for a couple of weeks. And so I guess that was my vacation. I don't know. I just played a lot of Diablo III.Josh:That's cool.Starr:Yeah.Ben:We got our worst vacations in Diablo III.Josh:Yeah. We got away for a few days. We went to this lake up north of Spokane in Washington and just five nights or something. But on the trip there, we're looking at our friends who were already up there, sent us the fire map of Washington. And we are traveling, literally our destination is in the middle of six fires.Starr:Oh no.Josh:We're like, "Should we be turning around?" I don't know. But it turned out all right. We breathe too much smoke the first couple of days, but it cleared up and-Starr:Yeah. After the first couple of days you hardly notice it.Josh:I only got a minor headache.Starr:Your nerves just die. The nerves in your lungs.Josh:Yeah.Ben:It's okay. We have good health insurance.Josh:I'm an ex smoker. So I'll just tack it on, it's just like adding a couple of days.Ben:It's like getting that upgrade package when you're buying a $30,000 car. And it's like, "What's another thousand dollars?Josh:Yeah. I've already got the risk.Ben:Yeah. I stayed closer to home. I read a bunch of books and I got out for a nice bike ride, went to the Snohomish Centennial trail. So it starts in Snohomish and it goes up through Arlington and it's rails to trail conversion. So there used to be railroad tracks there, but now it's a paved trail. And the thing that's neat though, they have a bunch of trail heads and a few of them have the recreations of the old train stations. So it's like, you can act like you're getting on board that train and actually getting on-Josh:Oh, that's nice. Really nice.Ben:Yeah.Josh:That's cool.Ben:That's a lot of fun. Let's see, a work thing that I did. It's a blur.Josh:Yeah.Ben:I probably migrated something somewhere at some point. And back-filled something-Josh:You were busy.Ben:Yeah.Josh:Yeah. You did a lot.Ben:Yeah. I can't remember what I did.Starr:Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of things, right? We're working with that sales consultancy, what is it? Intro CRM people?Ben:Yeah. Did do that.Starr:Have you done some outreach? You got some replies even?Ben:Yeah. Yeah. It's been kind of a mixed bag. So I've gotten some replies, but also the outbound stuff has not really been all that productive. So I'm questioning my life choices at this point.Starr:Have you had any overt hostility though?Ben:No overt hostility.Starr:Oh, you're not pushing hard enough then. You want your OH metric to be at least 10%. At least 10%, you want death threats.Ben:I will take that under advisem...

The hosts of the podcast announce a summer break, expressing their excitement to return with new content and well wishes for a great summer.

The hosts discuss their upcoming vacations and the process of shifting their vacation calendar. They emphasize the significance of taking breaks and highlight the advantages of being a calm company with plenty of time off. Other topics include planning downtime, prioritizing work and on-call support, adjusting to the new mask reality, parental involvement and shifting priorities, mixed feelings about going back to the gym, and productivity, projects, and compliance.

Discussion on investing in Bitcoin and skepticism towards it. Transition from independent workflow to collaborative project work. Advantages of using Stripe for web hooks and the launch of their own web hook system. Experiences with non-developer jobs involving development work and the future of email.

Show notes:Links:Mike MondragonCRDTShip of TheseusExceptional CreaturesShiba Inu Full Transcript:Ben:I'm just gonna dive on in there. I'm so eager. I'm so excited. It's actually weird because Starr is the one that typically starts us off. Josh:Yeah. I thought we were just going to start with our just general banter, and then not introduce the guest until 30 minutes later.Ben:By the way.Josh:It is also our tradition.Ben:Yeah. Well we're getting better at this thing.Josh:Where we say, "Oh, by the way, if Starr doesn't sound like Starr..."Ben:Right, yes. Today Starr doesn't sound like Starr because today's star is Mike Mondragon instead. Welcome Mike.Josh:Hey Mike.Mike:Hey.Ben:Mike is a long time friend of the show, and friend of the founders. Actually, Mike, how long have we known each other? It's been at least 10, maybe 15 years?Mike:Probably 2007 Seattle RB.Ben:Okay.Josh:Yeah. I was going to say you two have known each other much longer than I've even known Ben.Ben:Yeah.Josh:So you go back.Ben:Way back.Mike:Yep.Josh:Yeah.Ben:Yeah.Josh:Because I think Ben and I met in 2009.Ben:Mm-hmm (affirmative).Josh:Or something.Mike:Okay.Ben:Yeah, Mike and I have been hanging out for a long time.Mike:Yeah.Ben:We've known each other through many, many different jobs, and contracts, and so on. It's been awesome.Josh:Yeah, Mike, I feel like I've heard your name since... Yeah, for the last, at least, 10 years just working with Ben. You've always been in the background. And we've realized this is the first time we've actually met face to face, which is crazy. But it's great to... Yeah.Mike:Yeah.Josh:... have a face to put with the little... What is it, a cat avatar? Is a cat in your avatar? You've had that avatar for a really long time I feel like.Mike:Yeah, that's Wallace.Josh:Okay.Mike:So I'm Mond on GitHub and Twitter, and that cat avatar is our tuxedo cat, Wallace. And he is geriatric now. Hopefully he'll live another year. And if you remember in that era of Ruby, all of the Japanese Rubyists had cat icons. And so that was... I don't know. That's why Wallace is my icon.Josh:Yeah. Nice.Ben:So, so do Wallace and Goripav know each other?Mike:No, no, they don't. They're like best friends, right? They had to have met at Seattle RB.Ben:Yeah. Internet friends.Mike:Internet friends, yeah.Ben:Yeah. So, Mike is old school Ruby, way back, way back, yeah. But the other funny thing about the old Rubyists, all those Japanese Rubyists, I remember from RubyConf Denver... Was that 2007? Somewhere around there. I remember going to that and there were mats and a bunch of friends were sitting up at the front, and they all had these miniature laptops. I've never seen laptops so small. I don't know what they were, nine inch screens or something crazy.Mike:Mm-hmm (affirmative).Ben:I was like, "How do you even type on that thing?" But it's a thing. So I guess... I don't know. I haven't been to Japan.Mike:There are laptops that you could only get in Japan and they flash them with some sort of Linux probably.Ben:Yeah. Yeah.Mike:Mm-hmm (affirmative).Josh:Okay. I wonder how long it took them to compile C on there.Mike:Yeah. So, about the orbit with the founders. So, I think I'd put it in my notes that I... And I consider myself a sliver of a Honeybadger in that I did have a conversation with Ben about joining the company. And then in 2017, I did do a little contracting with you guys, which is ironic in that... So we're probably going to talk about cryptocurrencies and Bitcoin. So the Bitcoin protocol is, essentially, on a four-year timer. And in 2017 was the last time that we were building up to, I guess, an explosive end to that cycle. And I had just been working at Salesforce at Desk.com, And I left because of Bitcoin. And then this year, four years later, I, again, just left Salesforce, but I just left from Heroku. And I didn't leave so much because of Bitcoin, I just got a better opportunity, and I'm a principal engineer at Okta, and I'm in the developer experience working on SDKs, primarily, the Golang SDK.Mike:So I think one of the things that they were happy about was that I had experience carrying the pager, and knowing what that's like, and they wanted to have an experienced engineer that would have empathy for the engineers to main the SDK. So I'm really excited to be here, because I'm not going to be carrying the pager, and it is the fun programming. What I imagine, listening to the founders, about the kind of fun programming that you guys get to do, working with different languages and whatnot. So, obviously right now, I'm starting out with Golang. We don't have a Ruby SDK, because OmniAuth provider is the thing that most people use. But, there's also PHP, and some Java, so I'm just looking forward to being able to do a bunch of different languages.Josh:Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. We don't know anything about SDK teams, Honeybadger. But yeah, it sounds like we have very similar jobs at the moment. So that's cool. We'll have to trade tips at some point. Yeah.Ben:Yeah, I'm excited that you're there, because I'm definitely going to hit you up on the SAML stuff, because SAML's a pain in the tuchus yeah, I'm sure you'll have some insights from your time there.Mike:Well, that was how I was even open-minded to talking to Okta, was the recruiter had contacted me and I think actually it was the recruiter... I don't know the structure of how this works, but a lot of companies have a prospecting recruiter. And I think that a veteran oriented prospecting recruiter contacted me. And so being a veteran, I'll usually entertain those cold calls. And so then when I was at Desk, I wrote... So Desk was a big Rails monolith. I wrote a microservice to break some of the SSO off of the monolith itself. And in writing the API documentation that was on desk.com, I actually used Okta as one of the examples as a SSO identity provider using SAML. So yeah, I have had a little bit of experience from the outside of Okta with SAML. And so maybe I'll have more experience here to answer your questions.Ben:Yeah. We'll have to have you back and we can just do a whole hour on that. It's a fun world.Josh:After we do an hour on SDKs.Ben:Yeah, and your code that you wrote for us still lives on in Honeybadger.Josh:Yeah. Was it the webpack? That was some of the work, right?Ben:Some of it, yeah.Mike:Yep.Josh:Yeah.Ben:And some GitHub integration work.Josh:And the integrations, yeah.Mike:Yeah, well if I remember correctly with the GitHub integration, I did do some GitHub integration, and it tickled your enthusiasm, Ben, and then I think you went in and like refactored that a little bit.Ben:Well, if you have a monolith like Redo that's been around for as long as ours has, things don't... It's like, what was that Theseus' ship, it's goes around the world but you replace things as it goes, and it's never the same app, right?Mike:Yeah, that's...

In this episode, the hosts discuss their enjoyable experiences of riding scooters to work, including speed, handling, and the sensation of wind on their faces. They also cover extreme commuting ideas, the lack of front porches in houses in the Northwest, and the destruction of old houses in Kirkland. Other topics include feeling sad, difficulty in focusing, allergies, getting vaccinated, and their search for alternatives to Basecamp. They also talk about improvements in performance and DNS resolution, competing with a well-funded competitor, and the impact of front porches on social interactions.

The podcast covers topics such as using emojis, the differences between emoticons and emojis, comparing team inbox management tools, reaching out to celebrities, Basecamp's controversial changes, navigating political discussions at work, controversies within the Rails community, and casual conversation with movie references.

Show notes:Links:Lego space shuttleChallenger disasterChallenger: The Final FlightRoamxkcdFootage of Josh two weeks after final Pfizer shotThe Final CountdownThe Beach BoysFull transcript:Starr:All right. So now you're going to joke about how, since I've been vaccinated...Josh:Are you saying you are vacc'ed?Starr:In vacc'ed. I'm chipped. I like to say I'm chipped.Josh:Got your injection.Starr:People always act like being chipped is a bad thing, but now if I wander off, people will be able to return me to my family.Josh:Yeah. And I don't know what the big deal is, everyone loves new technology. I don't know anyone who's been bummed out that some new tech came out.Starr:That's true.Josh:I don't know what the... Yeah.Starr:I can't tell you the number of times I've been watching WWC and just being like, "why can't you just inject this into my vein?"Josh:Right.Starr:And now they are, and everybody's mad about it. Make up your minds, people.Ben:Let's see, so Starr you just got number one. Josh had two and I will have number two in a week and change.Josh:Yeah. I should have full immunity and well, I know on our next podcast in a week, it's been a week. Yeah.Ben:It feels good.Josh:So I'm not going to be here next week.Starr:Yeah. You get full immunity. Josh. You don't get diplomatic immunity, soJosh:Oh, okay. That's good to know.Starr:Cool it there, don't go off and rob any banks or anything.Ben:Did you see the new space shuttle, Lego kit?Ben:It's very cool.Ben:Yeah, it's the kit that is from the mission that launched the Hubble telescope. So it includes a little Hubble telescope as part of the kit. And you can mount it by itself, like display it on the stand itself or put it in the shuttle bay, the cargo bay of the shuttle.Josh:That's awesome.Starr:Oh, that's really cool.Josh:Yeah. My, my kids aren't quite Lego age yet. As we were saying the other day, they... what is the other, what's the bigger version?Ben:Duplo.Josh:Yeah. With their Duplo age, but actually, they're getting. We'll be getting Legos soon.Ben:Yeah. It's fun for the whole family.Josh:Yeah. It's going to be fun.Starr:Yeah. Mine's not really into Legos, but she loves... We just have like this big box full of random craft supplies, and she'll just go dig in through that and start building stuff.Ben:Pretty great.Josh:That's fun. My kids are both really into Pokemon right now. So that's actually pretty fun, because Pokemon's fun to watch.Ben:Have you done Pokemon Go with them?Josh:No, I haven't done that yet.Ben:I don't even know if the game is still around. Like..Starr:Oh, it's around. I know several people who are super into Pokemon Go and yeah, it's around trust me. Especially with the pandemic lots of people just wanted something to get them out of the house. They've been walking around with that.Josh:I could see that.Ben:We had this thing. So I haven't done Pokemon Go in quite a while, but when I was doing it, we had this Discord group here around town. They would use that to coordinate the battles. You know, they're like, "oh, there's a new ray, let's all go over." And like, oh, wow. I wasn't that into it, but all of a sudden I just hear through the same spot. And they're coordinating the text and the scores. It's kind of fun. So I went to a couple of raids, but I just kind of lost interest before I really got that deep into it. So.Starr:I just can't really get into a game where I have to socialize with people to win. Maybe I'm just showing my age. I'm from the generation where you play games, to like get away from people.Josh:Is it really socializing? Because you're all just standing around in a park, staring at your phones. Aren't you? I mean, for us, that is socializing.Starr:Yeah. That's pretty much socializing. That's what we do at my family some nights.Josh:Oh yeah. We all went to the park today.Starr:Yeah. So it's beautiful in the Pacific Northwest now. I assume it's beautiful where you are Josh? It'sJosh:Oh yeah. It's going to be 80.Starr:Oh my gosh. It's the first real week of sun after just months and months and months of gray and we all at this point, know not to get our hopes up. It's going to go back to gray pretty soon, but you can enjoy it while you got it.Josh:Is this the false spring? Is that what we're in right now?Ben:Yep. I think today probably after we're done recording, I'm going to be wrapping up some things pretty quickly and then getting the old foldable kayak out of the trunk and hitting the water.Josh:Nice.Starr:Oh, that's awesome.Josh:Yeah. I was thinking I might go sit in the sun or something.Starr:Yeah. So do you have any businessy type tech stuff to talk about today or we're all just have senior-itis?Josh:Well, we sort of unofficially launched a React Native support yesterday. So to our listeners, if you have any React Native projects that you want to monitor errors and you should hit us up, because we're looking for beta testers and things.Starr:That's awesome. And is that the one that Andre has been working on?Josh:Yep.Ben:Yeah. Andre did a fantastic job in getting the native stuff going and, Josh wrapped it up on the server side and I was pleasantly surprised at just how little work we had to do to get that working on a server side.Josh:Yeah. Source maps... Because React Native is a... I'm not a React Native developer, so it's probably only half working, but from what I understand, it's a little bit tricky, because it's React on top of native code. And so I've heard that you can end up with stack traces that have JavaScript and native, like source locations in them and stuff. And it gets tricky. So what we have, you can generate source maps for your React code and upload that to Honeybadger. And it works just like a regular JavaScript application. So we have yet to implement support for translating the native lines in the stack traces. But that's that'll be up next, I think. At least when someone requests it, so go use it and request it and we'll build it.Ben:That's that just in time development, we're not going to build it. Someone asks for it.Josh:Yeah. And also we have to understand it before we build it.Starr:Yeah. That's a biggie. Like somebody needs to come out with a a paid service that just processes source maps and Java trigger phrases. I know we would be the only customer because nobody has to do this, but us, but it seems like way too much work for what it is. It seems like we should just be able to like buy something and fix it.Josh:Yeah. What we're talking about here, basically it would be another source maps, service because are other types of... What is it? Symbolicating?Starr:Symbolification? I don't know.Josh:I can't remember. I think it's symbolication. Yeah, they switch it up on, you kn...

The podcast discusses a recent Wi-Fi disruption caused by a hack and the lack of security measures. They explore the security of mesh systems and introduce TailScale's smart VPN service. Strategies to improve email response rates are discussed, including sending personalized emails and using a chat widget. The concept of incentivizing survey participation is explored, along with the limitations of free plans and generating error messages.

The podcast discusses April Fool's Day pranks, morning routines, challenges of collaboration, a potential research engine, constantly switching between text editors, a grayscale version for free users, the changing perception of Windows, giveaway ideas, and podcast availability.