

SEEKING PLAY
How Might We
Welcome to the SEEKING PLAY Podcast, where your hosts, Dr. Jane Hession and Ronan Healy, explore how engaging in play and thinking playfully, are connected to childhood flourishing and organisational innovation.
Recall the natural playfulness of children – their boundless curiosity, unbridled creativity, and fearless embrace of new experiences. While these playful qualities are vital for children to flourish, have we overlooked the importance of these attributes in our adult workforce?
Jane and Ronan are keen to explore!
Recall the natural playfulness of children – their boundless curiosity, unbridled creativity, and fearless embrace of new experiences. While these playful qualities are vital for children to flourish, have we overlooked the importance of these attributes in our adult workforce?
Jane and Ronan are keen to explore!
Episodes
Mentioned books

Feb 8, 2024 • 43min
Savannah Vize - The Eco-Citizen's Playbook
Mural Madlibs Alert!
At 37.15, Savannah playfully answers some questions using Mural and some SEEKING PLAY mad-libs
___________________
Hello there!
We’re Dr. Jane Hession and Ronan Healy. We’re a husband and wife team and co-founders of the Irish design studio How Might We - www.howmightwe.design
We're passionate about Play and provide online and in-house training in the LEGO Serious Play method to:
1) Third-level Educators - https://bit.ly/LSP_Ed_Innovators
2) Organisational Innovators - https://bit.ly/LSP_Org_Innovators
Episode 5
Hear ye! Hear ye!
All hail the Jester Queen, Savannah Vize!
Playful and benevolent ruler of Season One!
Well, if you haven’t watched our introduction, those opening lines must be very confusing :)
Even before we met Savannah, we were impressed with the creativity and playful intelligence of her Master's Thesis, ‘The Eco-Citizen's Playbook’. And those attributes certainly shone through when we spoke with Savannah.
We hope you enjoy listening to this conversation as much as we did.
Savannah Who?
Savannah Vize is a regenerative designer-researcher based in Helsinki. She has a background in graphic design and place-based community engagement and a master’s degree in Creative Sustainability. Savannah uses collaborative and visual approaches to explore and communicate complex topics in accessible and digestible ways.
Touching on artistic, academic and activist modes, her work centres on the importance of playfulness, joy and emotionally supportive creative practice in our engagement with eco-social sustainability. Her multidisciplinary toolbox includes imagination practices, future thinking, participatory research methods, co-design workshops, information architecture and service design approaches.
LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/savannahvize/
The Eco-Citizen's Playbook - linktr.ee/ecoplaybook
Living Directory for the The Eco-Citizen's Playbook
www.instagram.com/eco.playbook
Website - www.savannahvize.com
Portfolio and CV - https://campsite.bio/savannahvize
Referenced
Play Matters - Miguel Sicart
www.dubraybooks.ie/product/play-matters-9780262534512
Timestamps
(0:00) - Introduction and welcome
(0:08) - Host introductions and podcast reminder
(0:33) - Guest introduction: Savannah Visce's background
(1:15) - Savannah's interview highlights
(1:27) - Quotes from Savannah's interview
(2:04) - Recognition of Savannah's impact
(3:23) - Savannah joins the podcast
(3:29) - Savannah's childhood and early interests
(4:45) - Childhood play experiences
(6:10) - Adult playfulness and its importance
(7:15) - Chosen quotes and their significance
(10:14) - Balancing seriousness and playfulness
(11:30) - Savannah's career start and advice to her younger self
(12:55) - Career evolution and current work
(16:04) - Explanation of the Eco Playbook
(19:04) - Importance of the distinction between play and playfulness
(22:46) - Contributions of play and playfulness to environmental action
(27:26) - Situated play design vs. gamification
(30:42) - Artifacts created for the Eco Playbook
(33:39) - Most impactful artifact
(35:08) - Ideal users of the Eco Playbook
(36:04) - Engagement with the Eco Playbook and future collaborations
(37:16) - Mad Libs activity and insights
(40:48) - Closing remarks and appreciation

Jan 29, 2024 • 1h 33min
Pat Kane - The Play Ethic
LEGO Literacy Alert!
Around the 1.20 mark, Pat uses LEGO to answer some questions. It's definitely worth watching!
___________________
Hello there!
We’re Dr. Jane Hession and Ronan Healy. We’re a husband and wife team and co-founders of the service design studio How Might We - www.howmightwe.design
We're passionate about Play and provide online and in-house training in the LEGO Serious Play method to:
1) Third-level Educators - https://bit.ly/LSP_Ed_Innovators
2) Organisational Innovators - https://bit.ly/LSP_Org_Innovators
Episode Four
Before you settle into this episode, pop on your leg warmers, shoulder pads, and acid-washed denim as you need to rock out to our guest's 80s anthem!
Hue & Cry - Labour Of Love - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CYZ6q7Wr9c
Ain't gonna work, for you NO MORE!!!
I can't stand it, I said I just don't.....Oh, hello. You're back :)
Not only is Pat Kane a pop legend (as is his bandmate and brother, Greg), but he is also a futurist, curator, consultant, activist, father, and partner. He is the author of The Play Ethic and its forthcoming sequel, SUPERPLAY.
With a long and varied career in media and arts, Pat consults and speaks globally. Pat was - and is - a lead campaigner for Scottish independence, and co-initiated the political lab Alternative Global
Pat who?
Book
www.theplayethic.com/thebook.html
LinkedIn
linkedin.com/in/patkane
Email
playethical@gmail.com
Twitter
@theplayethic
Main website
www.patkane.global
Blog
www.theplayethic.typepad.com
Pat’s Creative Consultancy
www.theplayethic.com
Pat’s Organisational Consultancy
www.newintegrity.org
Alternative Global
https://www.thealternative.org.uk
Topics Covered
Capitalist Realism - Mark Fisher
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalist_Realism
Capitalism On Edge - Albena Azmanova
https://cup.columbia.edu/book/capitalism-on-edge/9780231195379
Finite and Infinite Games A Vision of Life as Play and Possibility - James P. Carse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_and_Infinite_Games
The Culture Series - Iain M.Banks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_series
The Information Age: Economy, Society and Culture - Manuel Castells
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Information_Age:_Economy,_Society_and_Culture
At Home In The Universe: The Search for the Laws of Self-Organisation and Complexity - Stuart Kauffman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Kauffman
DAVID BOWIE: Internet is the new rock n' roll
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiK7s_0tGsg
Timestamps
(0:00) - Introduction
(4:08) - Pat's childhood experiences and imagination
(10:19) - Adult playfulness and structured play in adulthood
(12:33) - The playful dimension of gender and identity
(14:45) - The cultural shift towards play and self-determination
(16:02) - Balancing seriousness and playfulness in work
(19:04) - The importance of a Play Zone for creativity and innovation
(21:47) - The balance of risk and security in developmental play
(23:35) - The role of fundamental human nature in play science
(25:41) - The necessity of play for adaptability and innovation
(28:33) - Pat's earlier career and the influence of post-punk music
(33:03) - Developing a mentality of well-becoming
(38:02) - The societal implications of playful software development
(44:53) - Pat's book "The Play Ethic" and its impact
(47:17) - The balance of work and life, and the importance of play
(58:06) - The impact of game theory on understanding play
(59:18) - Exploring the societal playground and the need for play space and time
(1:03:31) - The role of complexity theory in understanding play
(1:13:23) - The interplay of care and creativity in work
(1:14:12) - The role of the gaming industry in legitimizing play
(1:16:23) - The need for a foundational approach to play and game studies
(1:18:23) - Pat's perspective on human creativity and its darker aspects
(1:23:35) - The role of paradox and adaptability in human creativity
(1:27:02) - Writing the book "Super Play" and addressing dark creativity

Jan 26, 2024 • 1h 33min
Di Gammage - Playful Awakenings
LEGO Literacy Alert!
Around the 1.23 mark, Di uses LEGO to answer some questions!
______________________
Hello there!
We’re Dr. Jane Hession and Ronan Healy. We’re a husband and wife team and co-founders of the service design studio How Might We - www.howmightwe.design
We're passionate about Play and provide online and in-house training in the LEGO Serious Play method to:
1) Third-level Educators - https://bit.ly/LSP_Ed_Innovators
2) Organisational Innovators - https://bit.ly/LSP_Org_Innovators
Episode Three
Digital Transformations and Systemic Change firmly reside in the parlance of organisational design, but since 2018, we've wondered if there's space for 'Playful Awakenings.'
Di Gammage, a Buddhist Psychotherapist, Clinical Supervisor, and Child Psychotherapist, authored the book "Playful Awakenings", and we're delighted to feature her as our second guest.
This was a wonderful conversation; we're confident you will enjoy it too.
Guest Details
"Playful Awakenings" Book
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Playful-Awakening-Releasing-Gift-Play/dp/184905150X
Di's LinkedIn Page
linkedin.com/in/dianne-gammage-4846bb42
Website
https://playful-awakening.org/
Email
di@playful-awakening.org
Topics Covered
A Playful Awakening in SouthWest Airlines - The best and funniest Safety Demo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbNy5Cc7GL8
Book Recommendation - "I Wonder” by Annaka Harris
https://www.amazon.com/I-Wonder-Annaka-Harris/dp/1940051045
Robert Landy - Mind-Body Healing Through the Arts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMLTJtMonVgn
Peter Levine - What is 'Titration' in Trauma Therapy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjNk3ns1MKY
'Falling Asleep' and how it links to Gabor Maté's work on addiction
Gabor Maté – Authenticity Leads To Freedom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1esGZE7whN0
Gabor Maté - How Play Can Heal Your Relationships
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L4V1cY5Pvs
Sharon Salzberg - Loving Kindness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQSWsOORBFY
Introduction to Voice Movement Therapy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Z_dxCYV40
Timestamps
(0:00) - Introduction
(2:32) - Discussion on Play and Playfulness in Organizations
(4:12) - Serious Workplace vs. Playful Interactions
(7:03) - D Gamage's Background and Early Life
(10:02) - Impactful Childhood Experience
(14:37) - Transition to Adult Playfulness
(17:23) - Balancing Seriousness and Play in Therapy
(20:02) - Breath and Its Importance in Therapy
(22:56) - Playfulness and Systems Thinking
(24:25) - Advice to Younger Self
(26:02) - Evolution of Di's Career
(29:55) - Impact of Working with Vulnerable Youth
(31:54) - The Role of Play Therapy
(35:26) - Playfulness in Serious Environments
(38:07) - Excerpt from Di's Book: Playful Awakening
(39:25) - Connecting Play to Something Bigger
(44:19) - Play and Confidence in Career
(47:45) - Shadow Side of Play and Abuse
(50:38) - Importance of Play in the Workplace
(52:02) - Mindfulness and Playfulness
(56:25) - Concept of the Cloak
(1:00:55) - Elaborating on the Cloak
(1:06:05) - Play in Overwhelming Situations
(1:12:38) - Presence as an Act of Love
(1:15:10) - Falling Asleep Metaphor
(1:20:14) - Attention as a Moral Act
(1:23:29) - First Lego Build: What Inspires Di's Work
(1:30:27) - Final Advice on Play and Playfulness in the Workplace

Nov 21, 2023 • 51min
Professor Christian Montag - Affective Neuroscience
Hello there!
We’re Dr. Jane Hession and Ronan Healy. We’re a husband and wife team and co-founders of the service design studio How Might We - www.howmightwe.design
We're passionate about Play and provide online and in-house training in the LEGO Serious Play method to:
1) Third-level Educators - https://bit.ly/LSP_Ed_Innovators
2) Organisational Innovators - https://bit.ly/LSP_Org_Innovators
Episode Two
Christian had to be our first guest, considering he worked closely with the late Jaak Panksepp.
Christian's work has also been a great inspiration to us, such as his book 'Animal Emotions: How They Drive Human Behaviour' plus his research papers:
1) How the six primary emotional systems are linked to the Big Five personality traits
2) Linking primary emotional traits to ideological attitudes and personal value types
3) The relationship between parenting behaviour and the personality of Kindergarten children
We highly advise you to:
1) read the short (and free!) book 'Animal Emotions: How They Drive Human Behaviour'
2) take the ANPS test to see how you score on Primary Emotions (plus your answers will help contribute to the data set)
Professor Christian Montag
Christian Montag is interested in the molecular genetics of personality and emotions. He combines molecular genetics with brain imaging techniques such as structural/functional MRI to better understand individual differences in human nature. Since September 2014, he has been a Professor of Molecular Psychology at Ulm University, Ulm, Germany.
Free Book (definitely worth a read!)
https://punctumbooks.com/titles/animal-emotions-how-they-drive-human-behavior/
Free test (definitely worth 10 minutes!)
https://affective-neuroscience-personality-scales.jimdosite.com/take-the-test/
How the six primary emotional systems are linked to the Big Five personality traits
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84366-8
Linking primary emotional traits to ideological attitudes and personal value types
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0279885
More of Christian's Research
https://www.uni-ulm.de/en/in/psy-mp/team/christian-montag/
Christian's Contact Information
Linkedin
linkedin.com/in/christian-montag-961732b7
Website
christianmontag.de
Email
christian.montag@uni-ulm.de
Twitter
@ChrisMontag77
Timestamps
(0:00) - Introduction and podcast overview(0:27) - Introduction to Jaak Panksepp's work(1:07) - Seven primary emotions and seeking system(1:39) - Origin of the podcast name "Seeking Play"(2:03) - Guest introduction: Dr. Christian Montag(3:00) - Reference to "Animal Emotions" book(3:20) - Affective Neuroscience Personality Scale (ANPS)(4:29) - Interview with Dr. Christian Montag begins(5:01) - Introduction and Dr. Montag's background(7:01) - Influence of childhood and upbringing(9:00) - Importance of social connections(12:01) - Balancing playfulness and seriousness in work(15:04) - Path to becoming a psychologist(16:18) - Early career and mentorship(18:01) - Evolution of Dr. Montag's career(20:10) - Explaining work to a younger audience(20:48) - First meeting with Yak Panksepp(23:02) - Collaborative research with Yak Panksepp(25:03) - Yak Panksepp's impact on understanding human personality(25:46) - Advancements in understanding play(27:43) - Screen time and digital society(29:45) - Importance of human relationships(30:01) - Discussion on the seeking system(31:19) - Personal stories illustrating primary emotional systems(34:32) - Connection between curiosity and seeking system(35:45) - Overview of Affective Neuroscience Personality Scale (ANPS)(38:22) - High seeking and play scores explained(39:59) - Cross-cultural study suggestion(40:53) - Linking flow and seeking systems(43:37) - Serious play in sports and workplace(47:41) - Importance of choosing work wisely(50:21) - Conclusion and closing remarks

Oct 25, 2023 • 34min
Intro Episode - Hello from Jane and Ronan
Hello there!
We’re Dr. Jane Hession and Ronan Healy. We’re a husband and wife team and co-founders of the service design studio How Might We - www.howmightwe.design
We're passionate about Play and provide online and in-house training in the LEGO Serious Play method to:
1) Third-level Educators - https://bit.ly/LSP_Ed_Innovators
2) Organisational Innovators - https://bit.ly/LSP_Org_Innovators
We're delighted to have you as a listener. Please get in touch with us if you would like to be a guest or have a guest suggestion.
Episode One
In 2015, we hoped to become parents and did what every expecting parent does. Buy ten books on parenting…read one, skim one....and leave the others to gather dust!
Coincidentally, at the same time, we were trying to figure out if the LEGO® Serious Play® method had any merit as a service design and systems thinking tool.
Trying to understand the LEGO® method led us back to the parenting books we had abandoned, which then took us down a rabbit hole of trying to understand two questions,
What is Play? and Why do we Play?
Since starting our "Play Odessey", we’ve come to understand that to answer these questions, we’re actually trying to understand:
1) What is cognition?
2) What is perception?
3) What is human physiology?
4) What is it to be a human being?
5) What is the centre of Human-centred design? (if that’s not too grandiose a question)
Before starting this podcast, we wanted to ensure that “cute” or “fluffy” conversations about play and playfulness didn’t happen. We know the workplace is serious. We’re not naive to that fact.
Since 2015, we’ve taken a serious look at play, and it’s taken us to rich and varied disciplines such as:
1) Pragmatism
2) Ecological Psychology
3) Affective Neuroscience
4) Material Engagement Theory
5) The Enactivist Approach and 4E cognition
6) Play Therapy, Psychology and Psychotherapy
The people we’ve interviewed have written books and research papers and dedicated much of their working lives to these topics. Because of that, our podcast is unapologetically long form. We want to know the person behind the research.
The name SEEKING PLAY is a homage to the work of Jaak Panksepp, which we cover in our video. We're delighted to have you as a listener and hope you enjoy this episode.