The Glenn Show

My guest this week, filmmaker Rob Montz, is an unlikely figure: a libertarian-leaning Brown University graduate who loves ‘90s rap and produces politically inflected documentaries that push back against the orthodoxies of the mainstream media. Rob has featured me in several of his works, and so I thought it was time to return the favor and have him on TGS.I begin by asking Rob how someone with a Brown pedigree ends up interested in such un-Brown-like figures as Charles Murray, Roy Beck, and Scott Atlas. Rob traces out his path from Brown to the Cato Institute to starting his own company, Good Kid Productions. He talks about some of his work, including a forthcoming doc about James Blake and Kyle Rittenhouse and one defending Roland Fryer from Harvard’s spurious sexual harassment charges. We then discuss the niches we’ve created for ourselves outside of the mainstream. Rob asks whether there’s a place for younger figures who can follow in my footsteps by achieving legitimacy both within academia and as a critic of the pieties that govern academic and political life in the US. We then move on to what’s shaping up to be one of the most crucial questions of the next two years: Trump or DeSantis? And finally, I ask Rob about his abiding affection for rap.Rob is doing important work as a filmmaker, and I recommend that everyone check out his YouTube channel. I’ll certainly be keeping an eye on it to see what comes next. (Note: This conversation took place on September 20, 2022, before the latest set of controversies around Kanye West emerged.)This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.Featured Content from City JournalRoland G. Fryer discusses affirmative action, why the current system doesn’t work, and suggests alternatives to the status quo.0:00 The appeals of immigration restrictionism 16:52 The 2013 Ray Kelly incident at Brown University 24:39 Rob’s forthcoming documentary about Jacob Blake and Kyle Rittenhouse 36:29 The response to Rob’s Roland Fryer doc 41:41 Why Rob and Glenn aren’t seeking the mainstream spotlight 47:20 Is there a “next Glenn Loury”? 55:10 Glenn’s course on race and policing be required? 1:02:19 Rob’s position on Trump 1:09:11 DeSantis vs. Trump 1:15:22 Rob’s love of ‘90s rapLinks and ReadingsGood Kid Productions on YouTubeRob’s interview with Roy BeckRay Kelly getting heckled at Brown in 2013Rob’s interview with Jay BhattacharyaRob’s mini-doc about Roland FryerRoland Fryer’s education company, ReconstructionRoland Fryer’s other company, Equal Opportunity Ventures Dexter Filkins’s New Yorker piece on Ron DeSantis This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

I’m back with John McWhorter for the latest installment of our ongoing conversation. John hit some technical snags in the first ten minutes of the recording, so apologies if the beginning sounds a little jumpy. After that, things smooth out. On to the conversation.We begin by talking about my memoir, which is now, after years of false starts, humming along nicely. But the process has forced me to confront some very dark episodes from my past, and they don’t always cast me in the most flattering light. As I explain, I think that presenting this unvarnished account of my own actions is necessary, both in the service of truth and in building credibility. John says he’ll probably never write a memoir, but I believe that if he sat down to do it, people would be more receptive than he thinks they would. After a rant about the “lightweights” against whom John and I often find ourselves pitted in the public square, we consider that we and people like us are finally making some headway in the conversation about race. Our views are no longer so marginal, and we may even be in, as John says, a “golden age of black heterodoxy.” And speaking of heterodoxy, I recount my recent debate with Shelby Steele, Robert Woodson, and Kmele Foster on “the ethics of racial identity” (watch this space for more soon). We finish the episode with accounts of the strange case of Jessica Krug’s racial masquerade and Darrell Brooks’s pathetic defense in his murder trial. We get deep in this one. As always, I’m looking forward to your comments. This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.Featured Content from the Manhattan InstituteReihan Salam argues Congress should fund innovative public–private partnerships now to prepare for a future pandemic. 0:00 Walking through the valley of the shadow of death 5:20 Earning credibility through self-discrediting disclosure 16:29 The lionization of the lightweights  21:09 The golden age of black heterodoxy 26:01 The mainstreaming of Glenn and John 37:36 Glenn’s debate with Shelby Steele, Robert Woodson, and Kmele Foster 45:45 Are we ready to “get past race”? 56:03 The strange case of Jessica Krug 1:03:46 Darrell Brooks’s courtroom performanceLinks and ReadingsThe announcement for 2022 Philip Merrill Award for Outstanding Contributions to Liberal Arts EducationKmele Foster’s podcast, The Fifth Column Darrell Brooks’ closing statement at his trial This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

As I mentioned at the start of our latest subscriber-only Q&A episode, John McWhorter recently received the 2022 Philip Merrill Award for Outstanding Contributions to Liberal Arts Education, bestowed by the American Council of Trustees and Alumni. According to the ACTA, the award honors “individuals who have made an extraordinary contribution to liberal arts education, core curricula, and the teaching of Western Civilization and American history.” Perhaps I’m biased, but I can think of no one who more richly deserves such recognition, and so I was proud to be asked to deliver some remarks in tribute to John at a ceremony, which I offer below. (I’ve also recorded an audio and video version for those who prefer to listen and watch. The audio is available now, video will uploaded tomorrow.)Next month will mark the fifteenth anniversary of my first recorded dialogue with John. Since that first episode, the two of us have experienced much. The beginnings and ends of marriages, the loss of loved ones, the birth of children and grandchildren, not to mention changes in political orientation and new career paths. Through all of that, John and I have kept talking to each other. I think those conversations are important for the reasons I state below. But equally important to me is the friendship that has allowed us, despite our differences, to keep the dialogue going. Without that bond, we may have been able to continue the conversation, but it would not have meant nearly as much to me as it does. This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.There are things that don’t—or can’t—get said when we talk about race in most venues in America. Those who have followed the 15-year-long conversation on this topic that I have been undertaking with John at The Glenn Show know what I’m talking about, whether it’s crime in black communities or out-of-wedlock birthrates, academic underperformance or the unbearable intellectual lightness of anti-racism agitation. In academia, in mainstream publications and media outlets, and increasingly in K-12 classrooms, what I’ve called “the bias narrative” holds sway. Negative aspects of black life are attributed almost entirely to the nation’s history of racial oppression, which is said to begin in the early seventeenth century and to continue unabated to this day. We are said to be a bandit society built on genocidal plundering undertaken by unrepentant racists.That’s one story you could tell. And if that story were just one of many circulating through our national discourse, it wouldn’t be the worst thing. But this “bias narrative” has become not just one of many stories. It’s now the only story on newspaper opinion pages, in scholarly journals, and in educational materials disseminated throughout our schools. It’s the story told by the White House. It’s the story that ramifies out from the most elite precincts of our country and shapes ordinary conversations and relations between individuals. Its grip on so many areas of the public imagination has become so tight that anyone challenging it is viewed with suspicion and, often enough, outright contempt. If an alternate explanation for black underperformance is proffered, it’s not the explanation that gets challenged but the individual making it. For to challenge this narrative, ipso facto, proves that one is a racist, or a deplorable or, if the challenger is a black man, an Uncle Tom.This situation is intellectually infantile and morally bankrupt. How we talk and think about race has consequences that can be measured not just in dollars and cents but in stagnant lives and dead bodies. So, responding with ad hominem attacks to any account of our current predicament that is not rooted in bias isn’t merely unfortunate, it is actively damaging. The stakes are enormously high here and the hour is late. Candor, integrity and courage are in short supply. Name-calling and character assassination have largely replaced open debate, while naked emperors, pseudo-academics, and bombastic demagogues command the public square.Enter John and Glenn. Or as I sometimes like to refer to our duo, enter the WokeBusters!!In Hans Christian Anderson’s story “The Emperor's New Clothes,” two swindlers promise to provide an emperor with magnificent new clothes that will be invisible to those who are too stupid or incompetent to see them. Officials see plainly see that no clothes are being produced on the swindler’s looms, but none of them will say anything to avoid being thought of as a fool. So when the emperor walks through the city in his new “clothes,” everyone can see that he is naked, but no one will be the first to say it. But then comes along an innocent child who, in his naïveté, is willing to defy this false consensus and speak out.The thing about the child in that story is not that he’s saying it. It’s not even that other people hear him say it. It’s that everybody knows that everybody else has heard him say it. The child has created a situation in which it becomes common, shared knowledge that the emperor has no clothes. Everyone now knows that everyone knows the truth.German political scientist Elisabeth Noelle-Neumann coined a term that describes this phenomenon: the “Spiral of Silence.” In a spiral of silence, when holding a certain view entails a stigma then people stay silent for fear of being seen as having that view. Thus the masses believe they are alone or in a small minority of people with the stigmatized view, when in fact they are indeed one of the masses.In progressive-controlled areas of our society today, we are suffering from a spiral of silence when it comes to the topic of racial justice. A great many Americans don’t like it when Colin Kaepernick takes a knee at a football game and says, “I’m not going to stand for this national anthem,” or when a Black Lives Matter activist rises with his balled fist and says, “Burn this city down.” But they are afraid to be the only one in their community saying it, to be perceived either as racist or as a supporter of racism, for holding mild views that, arguably, most of America holds, views such as the obvious fact that “White lives matter, too!”There is a deeper point here. Though overt censorship is often spoken of as the leading threat to open discourse, the more subtle threat arises from the voluntary limitation of one’s own speech that create a spiral of silence. As John Stuart Mill recognized in his masterwork On Liberty, it is not the iron fist of state repression but rather the velvet glove of society’s seduction that constitutes the real problem.Who, we must ask, will speak for compromise and common sense, when to speak in this way is seen to signal a weak commitment to “the struggle”? Who will insist that we speak plainly and tell the truth about delicate and difficult matters (such as, the despicable black-on-black violence now ravaging many of our cities), matters that we would all prefer to cover-up or ignore? Who will declare “the emperor” to be naked? How can a nation sustain an elevated political discourse, when the social forces of conformity which promote silence threaten to usher in a dark age? In truth, it cannot. But, with a simple choice, with just a little bit of bravery, you and I can choose to be like that child who spoke truth to the empire. We can put an end to the gaslighting, the lying, and the willful blindness to reality on issues of race and social justice that are so characteristic of our time.My friend and longtime conversation partner, Professor John Hamilton McWhorter, IV, with his books, opinion pieces, and via his public ministry at The Glenn Show has, for nearly a quarter-century, been pointing the way. It is now up to those of us who are committed to an honest engagement with this age-old American dilemma of race and social justice to follow his lead, if only we dare do!Thank you. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

0:00 How Rafael came to the Manhattan Institute7:33 Rafael’s new book, Criminal (In)Justice: What the Push for Decarceration and Depolicing Gets Wrong and Who It Hurts Most15:35 Is prison the right response to violent crime?26:20 Why Rafael believes in three-strikes-type sentencing guidelines31:42 Incarceration may lower crime, but is it just? 41:54 Rafael: Defunding the police is an indefensible idea49:34 Should we worry about racial disparities in the non-deadly use of force by police?1:00:08 Why Rafael’s father didn’t want him to become a copLinks and ReadingsRafael’s new book, Criminal (In)Justice: What the Push for Decarceration and Depolicing Gets Wrong and Who It Hurts MostRafael’s conversation with former NYPD and LAPD police commissioner William BrattonRoland Fryer and Rafael’s appearance on Peter Robinson’s Uncommon Knowledge podcast This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

0:00 Is racist heckling at sporting events a real problem?15:13 John: “If you can’t be made fun of, you’re not part of the group”26:42 The LA County Federation of Labor racism scandal34:10 Why is there no Latino Michael Brown?41:22 Exalting (and exaggerating) the victim role47:47 Glenn’s daughter’s upcoming appearance on The Glenn Show49:48 Elite discrimination against AsiansLinks and ReadingsJohn’s NYT piece, “What a Report of Extreme Racism Teaches Us”Wilfred Reilly’s book, Hate Crime Hoax: How the Left Is Selling a Fake Race WarJohn’s NYT piece, “Stop Making Asian Americans Pay the Price for Campus Diversity” This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

0:00 Matt’s profile of the artist Rahmaan Statik11:26 Chicago’s “Great Unraveling” 20:41 Is Chicago slouching toward dystopia? 29:50 How will the near-end of cash bail affect crime in Chicago?33:24 The responsibilities of teachers, parents, and the police46:59 A snapshot of crime in Chicago52:26 Matt runs the numbers on Illinois’s out-of-wedlock births1:02:44 Lori Lightfoot’s prospects for reelectionLinks and ReadingsMatt’s book, What Next, Chicago?: Notes of a Pissed-Off Native SonWirepointsMatt’s profile with artist Rahmaan BarnesRahmaan Barnes’s artUniversity of Chicago Crime Lab’s Becoming a Man program This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

0:00 Is Florence Price’s music worthy of its current popularity?12:20 The decline of blind auditions18:27 Do diverse orchestras attract diverse audiences and musicians?23:26 Why Don is protecting his real identity27:00 Glenn delivers a soliloquy on humanity32:06 John: Eliminating blind auditions is “bat s**t crazy”38:22 Should John’s daughters benefit from affirmative action?Links and ReadingsDon’s Substack, The PodiumDon’s series on Florence Price: Part One, Part Two, Part ThreeFlorence Price’s Symphony No. 3Van Cliburn’s performance of Rachmaninoff’s Piano Concerto No. 2Anthony Tommasini’s NYT piece, “To Make Orchestras More Diverse, End Blind Auditions”George Walker on YouTubeWilliam Dawson’s Negro Folk SymphonyWilliam Grant Still’s Symphony No. 1Claudia Goldin and Cecilia Rouse’s article “Orchestrating Impartiality: The Impact of ‘Blind’ Auditions on Female Musicians”John’s NYT piece, “Stop Making Asian Americans Pay the Price for Campus Diversity” This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

This week I welcome Lara Bazelon back to the show. Lara is a lawyer, a professor of law, and the author of several books, including the excellent novel A Good Mother. Lara is also an energetic free speech advocate who has taken some principled stands that have, at times, put her at odds with other progressives.We begin by discussing Lara’s decision to represent a college student, “John,” who had been found culpable for the alleged rape of a fellow student. Lara explains how the Title IX regulations under which John was investigated unfairly stacked the deck against him. These regulations, while providing needed protections for women, can also allow for unfair results that can potentially destroy the lives of the accused without giving them a chance to defend themselves. As a feminist, Lara is committed to defending women’s equality, but she is also uncomfortable with the ways that some progressives seem willing to sacrifice free speech in the name of equity. This has led her to work with pro-free speech organizations that have, among other things, defended Amy Wax against Penn Law’s attempt to fire her. Lara finds many of Amy’s statements odious, but she does not believe Amy should be silenced. She’s even found common cause with conservatives with whom she has worked to overturn wrongful convictions.Lara is proof that, even in our current political environment, principled conservatives and progressives can act together in good faith to achieve some common goals. I admire her courage and conviction, and I’m very curious to know what all of you think.This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.Featured Content from City JournalJoanna Williams discusses how the concept of a motherhood pay “penalty” indicates a society with misplaced priorities. 0:00 Lara’s critique of Title IX adjudications 9:29 Why Lara defended a college student accused of rape 19:17 Lara’s cross-examination of the accuser 26:45 The trouble with “Believe Women” 36:11 What the Trump Administration got right about Title IX 39:26 Why Lara supports Amy Wax’s freedom of speech 50:25 Does Glenn still feel marginalized? 56:58 Finding common ground amidst political tribalism 1:01:12 Lara’s work on racial disparities in sexual assault casesLinks and ReadingsLara’s new book, Ambitious Like a Mother: Why Prioritizing Your Career Is Good for Your KidsLara’s book, Rectify: The Power of Restorative Justice After Wrongful ConvictionLara’s novel, A Good MotherLara’s keynote address at FIRE’s 2022 Student Network ConferenceUniversity of San Francisco’s Juvenile & Criminal Justice Law ClinicPenn Law Dean Theodore Ruger’s letter to the Faculty Senate regarding Amy WaxThe Academic Freedom Alliance’s letter in support of Amy Wax This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

This week, John McWhorter and I welcome special guest Ian Rowe to TGS. Ian is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, the founder and CEO of Vertex Enterprise Academies, and author of the new book Agency: The Four Point Plan (F.R.E.E.) for ALL Children to Overcome the Victimhood Narrative and Discover Their Pathway to Power. Ian is doing outstanding work establishing charter schools throughout New York City, so John and I invited him on to discuss his efforts, among other topics. We begin by discussing how the Rodney King beating and the LA riots that followed the acquittal of the officers involved led Ian and Nique Fajors to make a documentary, which, decades later, developed into their podcast Invisible Men. Ian thinks that two related and competing narratives—“blame the system” and “blame the victim”—place pressure on black teens and young men, and his work at the Vertex Enterprise Academies’ charter schools tries to help them grow in another direction. Ian stresses marriage as a central component in long-term success, but I push him to explain how marriage can correct for dysfunctional patterns present in husband and wife that have been present since childhood. John introduces the issue of academic success and “acting white”—can Ian’s schools overcome cultural barriers to black academic excellence? Ian then talks more generally about the ins and outs of running a group of charter schools in New York and their recent legal victory over a teacher’s union that tried to block their funding. And finally, we talk about the recent Old Parkland Conference, which Ian and I had a hand in organizing. He’s got some exciting things planned for the next phase in that project.Ian is out there on the front lines of education reform. It’s heartening to see someone with his intelligence and drive fighting the good fight. I’m very much looking forward to your comments on this one. Featured Content from City JournalJason Riley discusses the upcoming midterm elections, analyzing the impact of this summer’s SCOTUS decision on Roe and the prospects for the GOP to retake power in DC. This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.0:00 How Rodney King led to Ian’s podcast, Invisible Men 7:31 Blaming the system and blaming the victim 13:20 Ian: I run schools to show my students they can do hard things 17:16 What’s so special about marriage? 29:24 Glenn: Right living is its own reward 41:34 The problem of success and “blackness” 40:26 Ian’s experience running Vertex 45:41 How Ian funds his schools 55:46 The bureaucratic opposition to charter schools 58:47 What comes after the Old Parkland Conference?Links and ReadingsIan’s book, Agency: The Four Point Plan (F.R.E.E.) for ALL Children to Overcome the Victimhood Narrative and Discover Their Pathway to PowerIan’s charter school group, Vertex Partnership AcademiesIan and Nique Fajors’s podcast, The Invisible MenIan and Naomi Schaefer Riley’s podcast, Are You Kidding Me?Milton Friedman and Thomas Sowell speak at the 1980 Fairmont Conference Video from the Old Parkland Conference Glenn, Ian, and Robert Woodson’s appearance on Peter Robinson’s Uncommon Knowledge This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

Source post0:00 Introducing Glenn Loury8:50 What is “social capital”?19:24 Racial inequality and self-segregation 30:01 Glenn: “The jig is up” on affirmative action39:45 Balancing preferences and colorblindness 45:35 Rethinking the welfare state55:41 Why Glenn’s forthcoming memoir is titled The Enemy Within  This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe