Futurology

We’ve spent decades beaming radio waves into space listening for an answer. But it might be enough to start here on Earth, or more accurately, under the seas. Sperm whales live in complex clans and communicate in rapid-fire clicks. Even if we could decode their messages, is it safe to assume they want to talk to us? What, exactly, would we have to say to them? The Cetacean Translation Initiative – CETI for whales not SETI for E.T. – is considering the implications of AI translation tools for the ocean’s depths. In this episode of Futurology, CETI Founder David Gruber joins Claire Webb – the director of the Berggruen Institute's Future Humans program – to explore what it means to approach another intelligence with humility rather than conquest. In the end, creating a direct linguistic connection with another species may be yet another white whale that humanity should abandon as folly. For Gruber, the point isn’t fluency. It’s learning to speak more softly on a planet filled with minds we’ve barely begun to meet. Resources Aglow in the Dark: The Revolutionary Science of Biofluorescence — David Gruber & Vincent Pieribone (Book, 2005) The Art of Translation — Vladimir Nabokov (Essay, 1941) Songs of the Humpback Whale — Roger Payne & Scott McVay (Scientific Article, 1970) Songs of the Humpback Whale — Roger Payne & Frank Watlington (Audio Recording, 1970) Follow David Gruber @davidfgruber https://www.davidgruber.com/ Follow Project CETI Instagram: @ProjectCETI LinkedIn: Project CETI Twitter/X: @ProjectCETI YouTube: Project CETI TikTok: @ProjectCETI Want to share suggestions or feedback?  Email futurology@berggruen.org Keep up to Date with the Berggruen Institute at:  https://www.berggruen.org Instagram:   / berggrueninst    Twitter/X:   / berggrueninst    Facebook:   / berggrueninst   LinkedIn:   / berggrueninst   Bluesky /futurologypod Credits  Executive Producers: Nicolas Berggruen, Nathan Gardels, Nils Gilman, Dawn Nakagawa, and Jason Hoch. Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, and Nathalia Ramos. Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Theme Music: Marcus Bagala. Audio Engineer: Aaron Bastinelli Futurology is a production of Studio B and Wavland and distributed by Realm.

Artificial intelligence isn’t alive. But our belief that it is may be the most dangerous illusion of all. Tech leaders talk about AI as if it thinks for itself. But that fantasy hides a more nuanced story about people, power, and profit. In this episode of Futurology, musician and technologist Jaron Lanier joins Futurology Producer Grant Slater to explain why treating AI as a creature, rather than a tool, lets corporations own the work of millions and silence the humans behind the code. Lanier argues that every algorithm is built from borrowed human creativity — the songs, stories, and patterns we’ve already made. The way forward, he says, is to restore data dignity: valuing people for the music and meaning they create, instead of worshipping the machines that remix it. Resources Who Owns the Future — Jaron Lanier (Book, 2013) The Dawn of the New Everything — Jaron Lanier (Book, 2017) Vers la flamme — Alexander Scriabin (Solo Piano Piece, 1914) A Blueprint for a Better Digital Society — Jaron Lanier and E. Glen Weyl (Article, 2018) Computing Machinery and Intelligence — Alan Turing (Article, 1950) Instruments of Change — Jaron Lanier (Album, 1994) Fantasia — Walt Disney Productions (Film, 1940) Snow Crash — Neal Stephenson (Novel, 1992) Want to share suggestions or feedback?  Email futurology@berggruen.org Keep up to Date with the Berggruen Institute at:  https://www.berggruen.org Instagram:   / berggrueninst    Twitter/X:   / berggrueninst    Facebook:   / berggrueninst   LinkedIn:   / berggrueninst   Bluesky /futurologypod Credits  Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, Nathalia Ramos Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Mixing & Mastering: Aaron Bastinelli Theme Music: Marcus Bagala Special Thanks: Heather Mason, Olivia de Rienzo, Carly Migliori, Nick Goddard 

For the first time in human history, we can see other worlds. Nearly six thousand planets have been discovered orbiting distant stars — and more appear every year. Each one is a reminder that Earth is not unique, and humanity is not the center. Astrophysicist and astrobiologist Adam Frank joins Claire Webb to talk about what this means for science and for us. From NASA’s search for technosignatures — the fingerprints of alien civilizations — to the planetary traces we ourselves leave behind, Frank argues that the hunt for life beyond Earth is also a way of seeing our own species differently. Episode Resources: Vladimir Vernadsky — The Biosphere (1926)https://www.amazon.com/Biosphere-Vladimir-I-Vernadsky/dp/038798268X Cordwainer Smith — The Rediscovery of Manhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rediscovery_of_Man East of Eden (1955 film)https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048028/ Frank Herbert — Dune https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(franchise) Kim Stanley Robinson — Red Marshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_trilogy The Expanse (novel series by James S. A. Corey)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Expanse_(novel_series) Follow Adam Frank  Instagram- https://www.instagram.com/adamfrankscience/?hl=en Bluesky-https://bsky.app/profile/adamfrank4.bsky.social X- https://x.com/AdamFrank4 https://www.adamfrankscience.com/ Want to share suggestions or feedback?  Email futurology@berggruen.org Keep up to Date with the Berggruen Institute at:  https://www.berggruen.org Instagram:   / berggrueninst    Twitter/X:   / berggrueninst    Facebook:   / berggrueninst   LinkedIn:   / berggrueninst   Bluesky /futurologypod Credits  Executive Producers: Nicolas Berggruen, Nathan Gardels, Nils Gilman, Dawn Nakagawa, and Jason Hoch. Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, and Nathalia Ramos. Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Theme Music: Marcus Bagala. Audio Engineer: Aaron Bastinelli Futurology is a production of Studio B and Wavland and distributed by Realm.

The first machines mimicked our muscles. Today, they’ve learned to mirror our minds. Now they’re beginning to imitate something even closer to the core of our humanity – imagination itself. Sci-fi author, translator, and technologist Ken Liu calls this new medium the Noematagraph: a tool for capturing creativity and collaborating with AI in the same way cinema tells stories with actors, sound and a splash of light on a screen. In this episode of Futurology, Liu joins Berggruen Press’ Executive Editor Nils Gilman to explore how AI blurs the line between artist and audience, code and consciousness. They discuss why storytelling has always been humanity’s most powerful technology and how machines, by learning to tell their own stories, may change what it means to express emotion in the AI age.

Humanity has a deep time problem. Our internal clock simply cannot compute on a time scale that takes into account the rise and fall of civilizations, star systems, and superintelligences. Unable to fathom consequences beyond our chronology, we make decisions and take actions that could snuff out our species in a blinding flash of light that would barely merit mention on the cosmic timeline. Ross Andersen writes for The Atlantic about the sublime and scary implications  of deep time. In this episode, he speaks with Futurology producer Grant Slater about how our view of time itself dictates what feels urgent now. From our definition of consciousness to our search for life in the cosmos, a wider frame of reference could dictate a new organizing principle for life on our planet and beyond. SHOW NOTES Subscribe to Futurology on your favorite listening platform Apple Podcasts Spotify Youtube (Futurology Podcast playlist) Anywhere you get your podcasts  Episode Resources: Follow Ross Andersen  Bluesky / @rossandersen X/ @andersen Instagram @rossandersen www.theatlantic.com/author/ross-andersen/ Articles The Vanishing Groves – Ross Andersen, Aeon Magazine The Bristlecone’s Fate – Grant Slater, Aeon Magazine In the Beginning – Ross Andersen, Aeon Magazine Are We Disappointed With Space Exploration? – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic The Search for America’s Atlantis – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic (2021) Exodus – Ross Andersen, Aeon (2014) What Happens When AI Has Read Everything? – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic (2023) The Most Powerful Space Telescope Ever – Video by The Atlantic, Ross Andersen (2016) Welcome to Pleistocene Park – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic (2017) A Journey Into the Animal Mind – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic (2019) The Nuclear Club Might Soon Double – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic (2025) Books The Wild Trees – Book by Richard Preston Is a River Alive? – Robert Macfarlane (2025) The Three-Body Problem – Novel by Liu Cixin OtherTimeline of the Far Future – Wikipedia Will We Run Out of Data? Limits of LLM Scaling Based on Human-Generated Data – Epoch AI (2024)Want to share suggestions or feedback?  Email futurology@berggruen.org Keep up to Date with the Berggruen Institute at:  https://www.berggruen.org Instagram:   / berggrueninst    Twitter/X:   / berggrueninst    Facebook:   / berggrueninst   LinkedIn:   / berggrueninst   Bluesky /futurologypod Credits  Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, Nathalia Ramos Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Mixing & Mastering: Aaron Bastinelli Theme Music: Marcus Bagala Special Thanks: Heather Mason, Olivia de Rienzo, Carly Migliori, Nick Goddard  Chapter Headings 0:00 – Introduction 2:12 – Bristlecone Pines and Ancient Trees 6:20 – Trees as Climate Records 9:07 – The Oldest Living Things on Earth 10:47 – The Deep Time Beat 11:38 – The Incomprehensibility of Big Numbers 13:07 – Cosmology and Cyclical Universes 15:52 – Becoming a Journalist 18:50 – Human Migration and Lost Worlds 26:27 – Pleistocene Park and Rewilding the Arctic 33:26 – Long Now Thinking and Tech Optimism 37:01 – Elon Musk, Mars, and Longtermism 42:01 – Searching for Extraterrestrial Life 47:06 – How Creative Is the Universe? 48:19 – First Contact: West and East Perspectives 55:18 – AI’s Rise and Limits 59:05 – What Happens When AI Runs Out of Text 1:05:13 – Consciousness in AI and Animals 1:13:25 – Animism, Gaia, and Personhood 1:17:30 – Nuclear Proliferation and Global Risks 1:23:49 – Linking Geopolitics to Cosmic Futures

Aminah Bradford, a microbial theologian from North Carolina State University, delves into the fascinating intersection of microbiome science and spirituality. She discusses how our bodies teem with microbes, reshaping concepts of individuality and connection. The conversation touches on her journey from fundamentalist upbringing to embracing microbial theology. Bradford highlights the implications of the Human Microbiome Project, the challenges to hierarchical thinking, and even how fermentation ties into worship, urging a rethinking of faith in light of modern science.

Pico Iyer, a renowned travel writer known for his insights on culture and the inner journey, joins Nathan Gardels, co-founder of the Berggruen Institute. They discuss how globalization has complicated identities, revealing the clash of civilizations. Iyer emphasizes that wisdom often lies in embracing uncertainty rather than seeking certainty. They explore the synergy of science and spirituality, mindfulness in the present moment, and the transformative power of loss, ultimately promoting a deeper understanding of interconnectedness and the beauty of life’s impermanence.

Each and every image of the cosmos is an act of interpretation. Scientists collaborate with artists and illustrators to saturate the colorless data of distant nebulae and galaxies and invoke awe. They rotate images, signalling which way is up in a void where ‘up’ does not exist. They make up for the shortcomings of our perception with the power of our imagination. In this episode, space historian Lois Rosson joins Claire Webb to examine the hidden politics of how we picture the universe. What we see in the stars is never just out there. It’s also a projection of what we’re going through here on Earth. From frontier nostalgia to government propaganda and corporate branding to the increasing role of AI in depicting the unknown, space imagery dictates what destiny humanity will manifest.

For decades, world leaders told us that global trade would keep the peace. Markets would bind nations together, and economic interdependence would make conflict too costly to pursue. That logic shaped the global institutions of the late twentieth century and defined the worldview of Pascal Lamy, former head of the World Trade Organization. In this episode, Lamy sits down with Lorenzo Marsili, the director of the Berggruen Institute-Europe to reflect on why that promise can't be kept. From the collapse of the WTO consensus to the rise of U.S.–China rivalry, from Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to the splintering of the internet, he explains why globalization can no longer guarantee harmony and what a world order governed by “precautionism” that prioritizes a Planetary commons might offer instead.

In this engaging conversation, Nicolas Berggruen, a visionary investor and co-founder of the Berggruen Institute, and Nathan Gardels, a seasoned journalist and thinker, explore the power of transformative ideas in shaping our future. They discuss the inspiration behind their think tank, focusing on innovative governance models and wealth redistribution. The duo highlights the importance of bridging Eastern and Western philosophies, advocating for holistic approaches to democracy and climate challenges. Their insights reveal how philosophical thinking can drive meaningful change in today's complex world.