Futurology

The current world order seeks to make sovereignty simple. One map. One flag. One final authority. But in Indian Country, the borders break down. Tribal nations govern alongside the United States, and sovereignty overlaps in real, everyday ways. This isn’t a historical footnote. It’s the future, hiding in plain sight. In this episode, Graham Brewer – the AP’s National Correspondent covering native lands and peoples – traces what sovereignty looks like when power overlaps and treaty promises from the 19th century adapt to the 21st. That negotiation is now playing out in the cloud: as languages are revived and culture moves onto servers. By its nature, the training of AI frontier models plunders native wisdom, but fully opting out risks another century of invisibility. The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity — David Graeber & David Wengrow (Book, 2021)  The Cherokee Nation and the Trail of Tears — Theda Perdue & Michael D. Green (Book, 2007) Prison Writings: My Life Is My Sun Dance — Leonard Peltier (Book, 1999) Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (NAGPRA) — U.S. Congress (U.S. law, 1990) United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP) — United Nations General Assembly (UN declaration, 2007) Music Modernization Act — U.S. Congress (U.S. law, 2018) McGirt v. Oklahoma — Supreme Court of the United States (Supreme Court case, 2020) Oklahoma v. Castro-Huerta — Supreme Court of the United States (Supreme Court case, 2022) Treaty of New Echota — Cherokee Nation and United States Government (Treaty, 1835) https://apnews.com/author/graham-lee-brewer# https://x.com/grahambrewer Want to share suggestions or feedback?  Email futurology@berggruen.org Keep up to Date with the Berggruen Institute at:  https://www.berggruen.org Instagram:   / berggrueninst    Twitter/X:   / berggrueninst    Facebook:   / berggrueninst   LinkedIn:   / berggrueninst   Bluesky /futurologypod Credits  Executive Producers: Nicolas Berggruen, Nathan Gardels, Nils Gilman, Dawn Nakagawa, and Jason Hoch. Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, and Nathalia Ramos. Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Theme Music: Marcus Bagala. Audio Engineer: Aaron Bastinelli Futurology is a production of Studio B and Wavland.

For Artist Refik Anadol, data is not just information. It is pigment. He feeds weather records, river flows, forests and archives into custom AI models and treats the outputs as brushstrokes. The point is to let AI learn from our memories and then push beyond them, catching the moments when the machine’s vision glitches out and creates something truly novel.In this episode, Anadol talks Claire Web, the head of the Berggruen Institute’s Future Humans program, about how this collaboration has changed his sense of nature, authorship, and the edges of reality. They explore how training a model on the textures of rainforests, rivers, and archives can produce a visual language that feels both familiar and strange, and why the future of art may depend less on controlling a system than on listening to where it leads. Resources Blade Runner – (Film, 1982) The Poetics of Augmented Space  — Lev Manovich (Essay, 2006) TED Talk Your brain hallucinates your conscious reality — Anil Seth (Talk, April 2017) Large Nature Model — Refik Anadol Studio (AI Model, ongoing) Refik Anadol https://refikanadol.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/refik-anadol-studio/ https://www.instagram.com/refikanadol/?hl=en https://dataland.art/?utm_source https://refikanadolstudio.com/ Want to share suggestions or feedback?  Email futurology@berggruen.org Keep up to Date with the Berggruen Institute at:  https://www.berggruen.org Instagram:   / berggrueninst    Twitter/X:   / berggrueninst    Facebook:   / berggrueninst   LinkedIn:   / berggrueninst   Bluesky /futurologypod Credits  Executive Producers: Nicolas Berggruen, Nathan Gardels, Nils Gilman, Dawn Nakagawa, and Jason Hoch. Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, and Nathalia Ramos. Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Theme Music: Marcus Bagala. Audio Engineer: Aaron Bastinelli Futurology is a production of Studio B and Wavland and distributed by Realm.

Humans are built for pattern recognition. It is the engine behind perception, emotion, and the fragile sense of self that feels so solid from the inside. For Anil Seth, this pattern-making power explains why consciousness is not a light inside but a process the brain assembles from guesses about the world. And it matters that each of us perceives that world differently. In this episode of Futurology, Seth talks with Nils Gilman about what these differences reveal about the nature of consciousness and why they matter for the debate over artificial minds. LLMs are pattern-recognition machines of a different kind, uncanny enough to gain our sympathy but Seth argues there is no there there. Caring for conscious AI could quickly become more than a harmless curiosity. It may turn into a zero-sum game that diminishes how we treat one another long before the machines ‘wake up’ in any meaningful way, if that is even possible at all. Anil Seth Anil Seth’s Website: https://www.anilseth.com/ Instagram: @profanilseth https://www.instagram.com/profanilseth/ BlueSky @anilseth.bsky.social https://bsky.app/profile/anilseth.bsky.social Twitter: https://x.com/anilkseth An Essay Concerning Human Understanding — John Locke (Book, 1689) How to Change Your Mind About Psychedelics — Michael Pollan (Book, 2018) Ex Machina — Alex Garland (Film, 2014) The Perception Census — Anil Seth et al. (Online Study, Ongoing) The Dress — Viral Internet Illusion (Internet Phenomenon, 2015) Müller-Lyer Illusion — Franz Carl Müller-Lyer (Visual Illusion, 1889) Want to share suggestions or feedback?  Email futurology@berggruen.org Keep up to Date with the Berggruen Institute at:  https://www.berggruen.org Instagram:   / berggrueninst    Twitter/X:   / berggrueninst    Facebook:   / berggrueninst   LinkedIn:   / berggrueninst   Bluesky /futurologypod Credits  Executive Producers: Nicolas Berggruen, Nathan Gardels, Nils Gilman, Dawn Nakagawa, and Jason Hoch. Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, and Nathalia Ramos. Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Theme Music: Marcus Bagala. Audio Engineer: Aaron Bastinelli Futurology is a production of Studio B and Wavland and distributed by Realm.

We’ve spent decades beaming radio waves into space listening for an answer. But it might be enough to start here on Earth, or more accurately, under the seas. Sperm whales live in complex clans and communicate in rapid-fire clicks. Even if we could decode their messages, is it safe to assume they want to talk to us? What, exactly, would we have to say to them? The Cetacean Translation Initiative – CETI for whales not SETI for E.T. – is considering the implications of AI translation tools for the ocean’s depths. In this episode of Futurology, CETI Founder David Gruber joins Claire Webb – the director of the Berggruen Institute's Future Humans program – to explore what it means to approach another intelligence with humility rather than conquest. In the end, creating a direct linguistic connection with another species may be yet another white whale that humanity should abandon as folly. For Gruber, the point isn’t fluency. It’s learning to speak more softly on a planet filled with minds we’ve barely begun to meet. Resources Aglow in the Dark: The Revolutionary Science of Biofluorescence — David Gruber & Vincent Pieribone (Book, 2005) The Art of Translation — Vladimir Nabokov (Essay, 1941) Songs of the Humpback Whale — Roger Payne & Scott McVay (Scientific Article, 1970) Songs of the Humpback Whale — Roger Payne & Frank Watlington (Audio Recording, 1970) Follow David Gruber @davidfgruber https://www.davidgruber.com/ Follow Project CETI Instagram: @ProjectCETI LinkedIn: Project CETI Twitter/X: @ProjectCETI YouTube: Project CETI TikTok: @ProjectCETI Want to share suggestions or feedback?  Email futurology@berggruen.org Keep up to Date with the Berggruen Institute at:  https://www.berggruen.org Instagram:   / berggrueninst    Twitter/X:   / berggrueninst    Facebook:   / berggrueninst   LinkedIn:   / berggrueninst   Bluesky /futurologypod Credits  Executive Producers: Nicolas Berggruen, Nathan Gardels, Nils Gilman, Dawn Nakagawa, and Jason Hoch. Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, and Nathalia Ramos. Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Theme Music: Marcus Bagala. Audio Engineer: Aaron Bastinelli Futurology is a production of Studio B and Wavland and distributed by Realm.

Artificial intelligence isn’t alive. But our belief that it is may be the most dangerous illusion of all. Tech leaders talk about AI as if it thinks for itself. But that fantasy hides a more nuanced story about people, power, and profit. In this episode of Futurology, musician and technologist Jaron Lanier joins Futurology Producer Grant Slater to explain why treating AI as a creature, rather than a tool, lets corporations own the work of millions and silence the humans behind the code. Lanier argues that every algorithm is built from borrowed human creativity — the songs, stories, and patterns we’ve already made. The way forward, he says, is to restore data dignity: valuing people for the music and meaning they create, instead of worshipping the machines that remix it. Resources Who Owns the Future — Jaron Lanier (Book, 2013) The Dawn of the New Everything — Jaron Lanier (Book, 2017) Vers la flamme — Alexander Scriabin (Solo Piano Piece, 1914) A Blueprint for a Better Digital Society — Jaron Lanier and E. Glen Weyl (Article, 2018) Computing Machinery and Intelligence — Alan Turing (Article, 1950) Instruments of Change — Jaron Lanier (Album, 1994) Fantasia — Walt Disney Productions (Film, 1940) Snow Crash — Neal Stephenson (Novel, 1992) Want to share suggestions or feedback?  Email futurology@berggruen.org Keep up to Date with the Berggruen Institute at:  https://www.berggruen.org Instagram:   / berggrueninst    Twitter/X:   / berggrueninst    Facebook:   / berggrueninst   LinkedIn:   / berggrueninst   Bluesky /futurologypod Credits  Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, Nathalia Ramos Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Mixing & Mastering: Aaron Bastinelli Theme Music: Marcus Bagala Special Thanks: Heather Mason, Olivia de Rienzo, Carly Migliori, Nick Goddard 

For the first time in human history, we can see other worlds. Nearly six thousand planets have been discovered orbiting distant stars — and more appear every year. Each one is a reminder that Earth is not unique, and humanity is not the center. Astrophysicist and astrobiologist Adam Frank joins Claire Webb to talk about what this means for science and for us. From NASA’s search for technosignatures — the fingerprints of alien civilizations — to the planetary traces we ourselves leave behind, Frank argues that the hunt for life beyond Earth is also a way of seeing our own species differently. Episode Resources: Vladimir Vernadsky — The Biosphere (1926)https://www.amazon.com/Biosphere-Vladimir-I-Vernadsky/dp/038798268X Cordwainer Smith — The Rediscovery of Manhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rediscovery_of_Man East of Eden (1955 film)https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048028/ Frank Herbert — Dune https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(franchise) Kim Stanley Robinson — Red Marshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_trilogy The Expanse (novel series by James S. A. Corey)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Expanse_(novel_series) Follow Adam Frank  Instagram- https://www.instagram.com/adamfrankscience/?hl=en Bluesky-https://bsky.app/profile/adamfrank4.bsky.social X- https://x.com/AdamFrank4 https://www.adamfrankscience.com/ Want to share suggestions or feedback?  Email futurology@berggruen.org Keep up to Date with the Berggruen Institute at:  https://www.berggruen.org Instagram:   / berggrueninst    Twitter/X:   / berggrueninst    Facebook:   / berggrueninst   LinkedIn:   / berggrueninst   Bluesky /futurologypod Credits  Executive Producers: Nicolas Berggruen, Nathan Gardels, Nils Gilman, Dawn Nakagawa, and Jason Hoch. Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, and Nathalia Ramos. Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Theme Music: Marcus Bagala. Audio Engineer: Aaron Bastinelli Futurology is a production of Studio B and Wavland and distributed by Realm.

The first machines mimicked our muscles. Today, they’ve learned to mirror our minds. Now they’re beginning to imitate something even closer to the core of our humanity – imagination itself. Sci-fi author, translator, and technologist Ken Liu calls this new medium the Noematagraph: a tool for capturing creativity and collaborating with AI in the same way cinema tells stories with actors, sound and a splash of light on a screen. In this episode of Futurology, Liu joins Berggruen Press’ Executive Editor Nils Gilman to explore how AI blurs the line between artist and audience, code and consciousness. They discuss why storytelling has always been humanity’s most powerful technology and how machines, by learning to tell their own stories, may change what it means to express emotion in the AI age.

Humanity has a deep time problem. Our internal clock simply cannot compute on a time scale that takes into account the rise and fall of civilizations, star systems, and superintelligences. Unable to fathom consequences beyond our chronology, we make decisions and take actions that could snuff out our species in a blinding flash of light that would barely merit mention on the cosmic timeline. Ross Andersen writes for The Atlantic about the sublime and scary implications  of deep time. In this episode, he speaks with Futurology producer Grant Slater about how our view of time itself dictates what feels urgent now. From our definition of consciousness to our search for life in the cosmos, a wider frame of reference could dictate a new organizing principle for life on our planet and beyond. SHOW NOTES Subscribe to Futurology on your favorite listening platform Apple Podcasts Spotify Youtube (Futurology Podcast playlist) Anywhere you get your podcasts  Episode Resources: Follow Ross Andersen  Bluesky / @rossandersen X/ @andersen Instagram @rossandersen www.theatlantic.com/author/ross-andersen/ Articles The Vanishing Groves – Ross Andersen, Aeon Magazine The Bristlecone’s Fate – Grant Slater, Aeon Magazine In the Beginning – Ross Andersen, Aeon Magazine Are We Disappointed With Space Exploration? – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic The Search for America’s Atlantis – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic (2021) Exodus – Ross Andersen, Aeon (2014) What Happens When AI Has Read Everything? – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic (2023) The Most Powerful Space Telescope Ever – Video by The Atlantic, Ross Andersen (2016) Welcome to Pleistocene Park – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic (2017) A Journey Into the Animal Mind – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic (2019) The Nuclear Club Might Soon Double – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic (2025) Books The Wild Trees – Book by Richard Preston Is a River Alive? – Robert Macfarlane (2025) The Three-Body Problem – Novel by Liu Cixin OtherTimeline of the Far Future – Wikipedia Will We Run Out of Data? Limits of LLM Scaling Based on Human-Generated Data – Epoch AI (2024)Want to share suggestions or feedback?  Email futurology@berggruen.org Keep up to Date with the Berggruen Institute at:  https://www.berggruen.org Instagram:   / berggrueninst    Twitter/X:   / berggrueninst    Facebook:   / berggrueninst   LinkedIn:   / berggrueninst   Bluesky /futurologypod Credits  Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, Nathalia Ramos Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Mixing & Mastering: Aaron Bastinelli Theme Music: Marcus Bagala Special Thanks: Heather Mason, Olivia de Rienzo, Carly Migliori, Nick Goddard  Chapter Headings 0:00 – Introduction 2:12 – Bristlecone Pines and Ancient Trees 6:20 – Trees as Climate Records 9:07 – The Oldest Living Things on Earth 10:47 – The Deep Time Beat 11:38 – The Incomprehensibility of Big Numbers 13:07 – Cosmology and Cyclical Universes 15:52 – Becoming a Journalist 18:50 – Human Migration and Lost Worlds 26:27 – Pleistocene Park and Rewilding the Arctic 33:26 – Long Now Thinking and Tech Optimism 37:01 – Elon Musk, Mars, and Longtermism 42:01 – Searching for Extraterrestrial Life 47:06 – How Creative Is the Universe? 48:19 – First Contact: West and East Perspectives 55:18 – AI’s Rise and Limits 59:05 – What Happens When AI Runs Out of Text 1:05:13 – Consciousness in AI and Animals 1:13:25 – Animism, Gaia, and Personhood 1:17:30 – Nuclear Proliferation and Global Risks 1:23:49 – Linking Geopolitics to Cosmic Futures

Aminah Bradford, a microbial theologian from North Carolina State University, delves into the fascinating intersection of microbiome science and spirituality. She discusses how our bodies teem with microbes, reshaping concepts of individuality and connection. The conversation touches on her journey from fundamentalist upbringing to embracing microbial theology. Bradford highlights the implications of the Human Microbiome Project, the challenges to hierarchical thinking, and even how fermentation ties into worship, urging a rethinking of faith in light of modern science.

Pico Iyer, a renowned travel writer known for his insights on culture and the inner journey, joins Nathan Gardels, co-founder of the Berggruen Institute. They discuss how globalization has complicated identities, revealing the clash of civilizations. Iyer emphasizes that wisdom often lies in embracing uncertainty rather than seeking certainty. They explore the synergy of science and spirituality, mindfulness in the present moment, and the transformative power of loss, ultimately promoting a deeper understanding of interconnectedness and the beauty of life’s impermanence.