Futurology

Humanity has a deep time problem. Our internal clock simply cannot compute on a time scale that takes into account the rise and fall of civilizations, star systems, and superintelligences. Unable to fathom consequences beyond our chronology, we make decisions and take actions that could snuff out our species in a blinding flash of light that would barely merit mention on the cosmic timeline. Ross Andersen writes for The Atlantic about the sublime and scary implications  of deep time. In this episode, he speaks with Futurology producer Grant Slater about how our view of time itself dictates what feels urgent now. From our definition of consciousness to our search for life in the cosmos, a wider frame of reference could dictate a new organizing principle for life on our planet and beyond. SHOW NOTES Subscribe to Futurology on your favorite listening platform Apple Podcasts Spotify Youtube (Futurology Podcast playlist) Anywhere you get your podcasts  Episode Resources: Follow Ross Andersen  Bluesky / @rossandersen X/ @andersen Instagram @rossandersen www.theatlantic.com/author/ross-andersen/ Articles The Vanishing Groves – Ross Andersen, Aeon Magazine The Bristlecone’s Fate – Grant Slater, Aeon Magazine In the Beginning – Ross Andersen, Aeon Magazine Are We Disappointed With Space Exploration? – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic The Search for America’s Atlantis – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic (2021) Exodus – Ross Andersen, Aeon (2014) What Happens When AI Has Read Everything? – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic (2023) The Most Powerful Space Telescope Ever – Video by The Atlantic, Ross Andersen (2016) Welcome to Pleistocene Park – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic (2017) A Journey Into the Animal Mind – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic (2019) The Nuclear Club Might Soon Double – Ross Andersen, The Atlantic (2025) Books The Wild Trees – Book by Richard Preston Is a River Alive? – Robert Macfarlane (2025) The Three-Body Problem – Novel by Liu Cixin OtherTimeline of the Far Future – Wikipedia Will We Run Out of Data? Limits of LLM Scaling Based on Human-Generated Data – Epoch AI (2024)Want to share suggestions or feedback?  Email futurology@berggruen.org Keep up to Date with the Berggruen Institute at:  https://www.berggruen.org Instagram:   / berggrueninst    Twitter/X:   / berggrueninst    Facebook:   / berggrueninst   LinkedIn:   / berggrueninst   Bluesky /futurologypod Credits  Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, Nathalia Ramos Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Mixing & Mastering: Aaron Bastinelli Theme Music: Marcus Bagala Special Thanks: Heather Mason, Olivia de Rienzo, Carly Migliori, Nick Goddard  Chapter Headings 0:00 – Introduction 2:12 – Bristlecone Pines and Ancient Trees 6:20 – Trees as Climate Records 9:07 – The Oldest Living Things on Earth 10:47 – The Deep Time Beat 11:38 – The Incomprehensibility of Big Numbers 13:07 – Cosmology and Cyclical Universes 15:52 – Becoming a Journalist 18:50 – Human Migration and Lost Worlds 26:27 – Pleistocene Park and Rewilding the Arctic 33:26 – Long Now Thinking and Tech Optimism 37:01 – Elon Musk, Mars, and Longtermism 42:01 – Searching for Extraterrestrial Life 47:06 – How Creative Is the Universe? 48:19 – First Contact: West and East Perspectives 55:18 – AI’s Rise and Limits 59:05 – What Happens When AI Runs Out of Text 1:05:13 – Consciousness in AI and Animals 1:13:25 – Animism, Gaia, and Personhood 1:17:30 – Nuclear Proliferation and Global Risks 1:23:49 – Linking Geopolitics to Cosmic Futures

Aminah Bradford, a microbial theologian from North Carolina State University, delves into the fascinating intersection of microbiome science and spirituality. She discusses how our bodies teem with microbes, reshaping concepts of individuality and connection. The conversation touches on her journey from fundamentalist upbringing to embracing microbial theology. Bradford highlights the implications of the Human Microbiome Project, the challenges to hierarchical thinking, and even how fermentation ties into worship, urging a rethinking of faith in light of modern science.

Pico Iyer, a renowned travel writer known for his insights on culture and the inner journey, joins Nathan Gardels, co-founder of the Berggruen Institute. They discuss how globalization has complicated identities, revealing the clash of civilizations. Iyer emphasizes that wisdom often lies in embracing uncertainty rather than seeking certainty. They explore the synergy of science and spirituality, mindfulness in the present moment, and the transformative power of loss, ultimately promoting a deeper understanding of interconnectedness and the beauty of life’s impermanence.

Each and every image of the cosmos is an act of interpretation. Scientists collaborate with artists and illustrators to saturate the colorless data of distant nebulae and galaxies and invoke awe. They rotate images, signalling which way is up in a void where ‘up’ does not exist. They make up for the shortcomings of our perception with the power of our imagination. In this episode, space historian Lois Rosson joins Claire Webb to examine the hidden politics of how we picture the universe. What we see in the stars is never just out there. It’s also a projection of what we’re going through here on Earth. From frontier nostalgia to government propaganda and corporate branding to the increasing role of AI in depicting the unknown, space imagery dictates what destiny humanity will manifest.

For decades, world leaders told us that global trade would keep the peace. Markets would bind nations together, and economic interdependence would make conflict too costly to pursue. That logic shaped the global institutions of the late twentieth century and defined the worldview of Pascal Lamy, former head of the World Trade Organization. In this episode, Lamy sits down with Lorenzo Marsili, the director of the Berggruen Institute-Europe to reflect on why that promise can't be kept. From the collapse of the WTO consensus to the rise of U.S.–China rivalry, from Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to the splintering of the internet, he explains why globalization can no longer guarantee harmony and what a world order governed by “precautionism” that prioritizes a Planetary commons might offer instead.

In this engaging conversation, Nicolas Berggruen, a visionary investor and co-founder of the Berggruen Institute, and Nathan Gardels, a seasoned journalist and thinker, explore the power of transformative ideas in shaping our future. They discuss the inspiration behind their think tank, focusing on innovative governance models and wealth redistribution. The duo highlights the importance of bridging Eastern and Western philosophies, advocating for holistic approaches to democracy and climate challenges. Their insights reveal how philosophical thinking can drive meaningful change in today's complex world.

The liberal world order was built for a different era — more centralized, more hierarchical, more predictable. In the 21st century, power has gone fluid. It flows through supply chains and satellites, networks and platforms, alliances that shift issue by issue. In this episode, policy thinker Anne-Marie Slaughter joins Nathan Gardels to map a world no longer defined by blocs, but by webs. From climate cooperation to civilizational conflict, from multipolar diplomacy to local democratic renewal, they explore what comes after the end of the nation-state’s monopoly on the future.

The ever-branching network of lakes, rivers, and streams that flow west from the Rockies enable human life to flourish in one of the hottest places on Earth. This is a “cyborg watershed” – part natural, part machine, and wholly entangled with the myths and machinery of the region. In this episode, LA-based artist Lauren Bon joins Futurology producer Grant Slater to trace the path of her large-scale artworks that intervene in that system, blurring the lines between art, engineering, and activism. The conversation moves through buried waterways, the choreography of permits and politics, and the search for a civic identity grounded in the flow of water rather than the lines on a map.

Rana Dasgupta, a writer investigating the fading liberal order, teams up with Jonathan Blake, a political scientist focused on global governance, to discuss the unraveling of the nation-state. They delve into how national identity is evolving amidst climate change and digital connectivity. The duo explores the historical ties between state and religion, the necessity of adaptable governance structures, and the potential for transnational identities to promote global harmony. Their conversation is a thought-provoking reflection on belonging in a chaotic world.

Thomas Moynihan, a historian focused on human extinction, teams up with Benjamin Bratton, a philosopher of technology. Together, they explore how humanity's understanding of time and extinction has evolved, shifting from religious prophecies to scientific realities. They discuss the cosmic significance of extinction, the ethical implications of AI and planetary intelligence, and how these ideas change our obligations to future generations. Their conversation dives deep into the interconnectedness of life and technology, urging listeners to rethink existence and responsibility.