The ABMP Podcast | Speaking With the Massage & Bodywork Profession

Does more experience always lead to better outcomes? In this episode of The ABMP Podcast, Doug Nelson explores both sides of the experience debate—when years in practice enhance clinical insight, and when they can quietly become a limitation. Doug also digs into the concept of therapeutic drift, how habits form over time, and why even well-intentioned clinicians can stray from best practices. Host: Douglas Nelson is Board Certified in Massage Therapy and Therapeutic Bodywork, beginning his career in massage therapy in 1977. Seeing over 1,200 client visits annually for decades, he is also the owner of BodyWork Associates, a massage therapy clinic in Champaign, IL. with 21 therapists that was established in 1982. He is the founder of NMT MidWest, Inc., providing training in Precision Neuromuscular Therapy™ across the USA. He has personally taught more than 13,000 hours of continuing education and is the author of three books. Doug is a past president of the Massage Therapy Foundation. Sponsors: Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA Precision Neuromuscular Therapy seminars (www.pnmt.org) have been teaching high-quality seminars for more than 20 years. Doug Nelson and the PNMT teaching staff help you to practice with the confidence and creativity that comes from deep understanding, rather than the adherence to one treatment approach or technique. Find our seminar schedule at pnmt.org/seminar-schedule with over 60 weekends of seminars across the country. Or meet us online in the PNMT Portal, our online gateway with access to over 500 videos, 37 NCBTMB CEs, our Discovery Series webinars, one-on-one mentoring, and much, much more! All for the low yearly cost of $167.50. Learn more at pnmt.thinkific.com/courses/pnmtportal! Follow us on social media: @precisionnmt on Instagram or at Precision Neuromuscular Therapy Seminars on Facebook.

In this episode of The ABMP Podcast, Angie welcomes Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar and Dr. Sheila Patel to discuss their new book, Awakened Sleep, how to rediscover rest as a transformative tool for healing, clarity, and personal growth, and how blending science, spirituality, and practical rituals to help cultivate deep, restorative sleep that helps unlock your full potential. Guests: Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar (BAMS, MD, Ayurveda) is one of the most prominent and academically accomplished Ayurvedic physicians in the United States with over 35 years of clinical experience. He is the director of Ayurvedic Healing, an integrative wellness clinic in Santa Cruz, CA. He is also the author of The Hot Belly Diet (Simon & Schuster, 2015) and Change Your Schedule, Change Your Life (Harper Wave, 2018) which has been translated into 13 languages and sold nearly 70,000 copies. As a leading voice in Ayurvedic medicine, Dr. Suhas is a sought-after speaker at Ayurvedic and wellness conferences both nationally and internationally. He is an Advisor and Consultant at Chopra Global and Chopra Foundation, which allows him to share the stage with some of the leading global experts in the field of Integrative Medicine. He has traveled around the globe popularizing Ayurveda, Yoga, Meditation & Natural Medicine. He Chaired & designed curriculums for several Ayurvedic schools. Dr. Suhas has formulated some very successful herbal products generating multi-million dollars in revenues. He was featured in numerous popular Podcasts, Radio & Television shows. Dr. Sheila Patel MD was former Chief Medical officer for Chopra Global and a board-certified family physician. Dr. Sheila is certified as an instructor of Ayurveda, yoga, and meditation and served as Chief Medical Officer for Chopra Global for 13 years. She joined the Institute for Integrative Nutrition as a Medical Advisor where she continues to be a lead educator for the Chopra meditation and health certification programs. In addition, she serves as the clinical research director for the Chopra Foundation, volunteer faculty at UCSD School of Family Medicine and Public Health and is a sought-after keynote speaker. Resources: Learn more about the book at https://awakened-sleep.com/ Host: Angie Parris is a licensed massage therapist and is the advertising director for ABMP. She is Chopra Center Certified in meditation and ayurvedic lifestyle. Her training explores physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual health. Angie is also the founder of the nonprofit, Project Inti, an organization that provides aid to low-income Peruvian families and communities. For more information, visit www.projectinti.org. Sponsors: Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com PMNT: www.pmnt.org Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA Precision Neuromuscular Therapy seminars (www.pnmt.org) have been teaching high-quality seminars for more than 20 years. Doug Nelson and the PNMT teaching staff help you to practice with the confidence and creativity that comes from deep understanding, rather than the adherence to one treatment approach or technique. Find our seminar schedule at pnmt.org/seminar-schedule with over 60 weekends of seminars across the country. Or meet us online in the PNMT Portal, our online gateway with access to over 500 videos, 37 NCBTMB CEs, our Discovery Series webinars, one-on-one mentoring, and much, much more! All for the low yearly cost of $167.50. Learn more at pnmt.thinkific.com/courses/pnmtportal! Follow us on social media: @precisionnmt on Instagram or at Precision Neuromuscular Therapy Seminars on Facebook.

A client has a very traumatic experience with their kidney transplant surgery in 2017. Ever since, they have lived with chronic, intractable neck and head pain that doesn't respond to any treatment they've tried so far. A recent CT scan reveals some calcium deposits inside the cranium but - is that the cause? Can massage therapy help? Are there any options for this person? Resources: Anwar, Z. et al. (2011) "Superficial temporal artery calcification in patients with end-stage renal disease: Association with vascular risk factors and ischemic cerebrovascular disease," The Indian Journal of Radiology & Imaging, 21(3), pp. 215–220. Available at: https://doi.org/10.4103/0971-3026.85371. CNN, C.S., Special to (2014) 'I couldn't move': Patients who wake up during surgery, CNN. Available at: https://www.cnn.com/2014/11/28/health/wake-up-during-surgery (Accessed: November 14, 2025). Healthcare, G.E. (2020) Waking Up During Surgery: A Nightmare | Clinical View. Available at: https://clinicalview.gehealthcare.com/article/waking-during-surgery-patients-worst-nightmare (Accessed: November 14, 2025). Kiroglu, Y. et al. (2009) "Intracranial calcifications on computed tomography: pictorial essay," Diagnostic and Interventional Radiology [Preprint]. Available at: https://doi.org/10.4261/1305-3825.DIR.2626-09.1. Li, Xuelong et al. (2022) "The association of renal impairment with different patterns of intracranial arterial calcification: Intimal and medial calcification," Atherosclerosis, 363, pp. 42–47. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.atherosclerosis.2022.11.012. Host Bio: Ruth Werner is a former massage therapist, a writer, and an NCBTMB-approved continuing education provider. She wrote A Massage Therapist's Guide to Pathology, now in its seventh edition, which is used in massage schools worldwide. Werner is also a long-time Massage & Bodywork columnist, most notably of the Pathology Perspectives column. Werner is also ABMP's partner on Pocket Pathology, a web-based app and quick reference program that puts key information for nearly 200 common pathologies at your fingertips. Werner's books are available at www.booksofdiscovery.com. And more information about her is available at www.ruthwerner.com. About our Sponsors: Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA

In this engaging discussion, a seasoned therapist shares her top five go-to techniques that have shaped her practice over 25 years. Discover the power of positional release, using the nervous system to encourage relaxation. Learn how therapeutic friction works wonders on adhesions. Explore PNF, a collaboration for improving range of motion. Delve into the mechanics of pin-and-stretch and its application in myofascial treatment. Finally, unravel the mysteries of trigger point therapy, focusing on communication and effective outcomes. It's a treasure trove of knowledge for therapists!

Join Kristin Coverly as she explores the health benefits of gratitude, practices to incorporate into your daily life, and chats with guests Allison Denney and Ann and Lynn Teachworth about their gratitude practices. Gain information and tools you can immediately apply to your personal and professional lives! Resources: ABMP Education Center: https://www.abmp.com/learn/ ABMP CE Socials Event: https://www.abmp.com/ce-socials What is Gratitude and Why Is It So Important?: https://positivepsychology.com/gratitude-appreciation/ The Neuroscience of Gratitude & Its Effects on the Brain: https://positivepsychology.com/neuroscience-of-gratitude/ The Effects of Gratitude Interventions: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10393216/ Health benefits of gratitude: https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/health-benefits-gratitude 11 Best Gratitude Apps to Increase Your Wellbeing: https://positivepsychology.com/gratitude-apps/ Host: Kristin Coverly, LMT is a massage therapist, educator, and the director of professional education at ABMP. She loves creating continuing education courses, events, and resources to support massage therapists and bodyworkers as they enhance their lives and practices. Contact her at ce@abmp.com. Guests: Allison Denney is a certified massage therapist and certified YouTuber. You can find her massage tutorials at YouTube.com/RebelMassage. She is also passionate about creating products that are kind, simple, and productive for therapists to use in their practices. Her products, along with access to her blog and CE opportunities, can be found at rebelmassage.com. Ann and Lynn Teachworth of Trunamics integrate structural, functional, and energetic concepts to help good therapists be great. Ann is director of education at Inspirit School of Healing Arts. She integrates manual therapy, energetic modalities, the Franklin Method, yoga, breathwork, meditation, and mindfulness to help people understand and experience their design and function more fully. Lynn has been a licensed massage therapist for over 25 years, and he specializes in pain, sports injuries, and sports performance. One of only a few therapists in the world with advanced training in structural bodywork, biomechanics, movement, and energy medicine, he is able to address a wide variety of acute and chronic injuries. Learn more at www.trunamics.com. Sponsor: Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA

Doug Nelson explores the power of systems thinking in bodywork, challenging the focus on isolated symptoms. He connects insights from family systems to anatomical relationships, showing how small changes can lead to significant effects over time. Using examples like golf swings, he illustrates how restrictions can lead to broader issues. Nelson emphasizes the importance of relationships in client care and gradual assessment, advocating for preventative approaches. He concludes with a hopeful message about the cumulative benefits of consistent bodywork.

In her final Business or Pressure episode, Allissa shares some of the big-picture guidance that has helped her make better decisions in her businesses. Host: Allissa Haines is a practicing massage therapist and business owner. You can find her building websites and coaching massage therapists at deepbreathdigital.com. Author links: Website: www.deepbreathdigital.com Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/purepromassageproducts Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/purepromassageproducts/ YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCncpFzRVwZA_V_SnylkHyMw

A simple question turned into a deep dive, and I learned a ton along the way! A client has an implanted vagus nerve stimulator. Now what? In this episode of I Have a Client Who . . ., Ruth explore's how vagus nerve stimulators work, why they're used, and the precautions massage therapists should consider. Plus, we discuss the exciting possibilities these devices hold for a wide range of treatments. Resources: Ben-Menachem, E. (2001) "Vagus nerve stimulation, side effects, and long-term safety," Journal of Clinical Neurophysiology: Official Publication of the American Electroencephalographic Society, 18(5), pp. 415–418. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1097/00004691-200109000-00005. Lerman, I. et al. (2019) "Noninvasive vagus nerve stimulation alters neural response and physiological autonomic tone to noxious thermal challenge," PLoS ONE, 14(2), p. e0201212. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0201212. Mandalaneni, K. and Rayi, A. (2025) "Vagus Nerve Stimulator," in StatPearls. Treasure Island (FL): StatPearls Publishing. Available at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK562175/ (Accessed: October 22, 2025). Olsen, L.K. et al. (2023) "Vagus nerve stimulation: mechanisms and factors involved in memory enhancement," Frontiers in Human Neuroscience, 17. Available at: https://doi.org/10.3389/fnhum.2023.1152064. Tariq, K. et al. (2020) "A case report of Vagus nerve stimulation for intractable hiccups," International Journal of Surgery Case Reports, 78, pp. 219–222. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijscr.2020.12.023. UCL (2025) Vagus nerve stimulation could help people get more exercise, UCL News. Available at: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2025/jul/vagus-nerve-stimulation-could-help-people-get-more-exercise (Accessed: October 22, 2025). Vagus Nerve (no date) Physiopedia. Available at: https://www.physio-pedia.com/Vagus_Nerve (Accessed: October 22, 2025). Vagus Nerve Stimulation (VNS): What It Is, Uses & Side Effects (no date) Cleveland Clinic. Available at: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/17598-vagus-nerve-stimulation (Accessed: October 18, 2025). Wu, Q. et al. (2024) "Current status of transcutaneous auricular vagus nerve stimulation for tinnitus: a narrative review of modern research," Frontiers in Neuroscience, 18, p. 1405310. Available at: https://doi.org/10.3389/fnins.2024.1405310. Host Bio: Ruth Werner is a former massage therapist, a writer, and an NCBTMB-approved continuing education provider. She wrote A Massage Therapist's Guide to Pathology, now in its seventh edition, which is used in massage schools worldwide. Werner is also a long-time Massage & Bodywork columnist, most notably of the Pathology Perspectives column. Werner is also ABMP's partner on Pocket Pathology, a web-based app and quick reference program that puts key information for nearly 200 common pathologies at your fingertips. Werner's books are available at www.booksofdiscovery.com. And more information about her is available at www.ruthwerner.com. About our Sponsors: Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA

Allison Denney, a certified massage therapist and YouTuber with 25 years of experience, shares her insights on the often-misunderstood realm of deep tissue therapy. She challenges conventional labels that mislead clients and advocates for a client-centered approach. Allison highlights the misconception that deeper pressure equates to better results, discussing the risks of burnout and injury for therapists. Rethinking treatment strategies for conditions like plantar fasciitis, she emphasizes understanding the body’s complexities to enhance outcomes and ensure a sustainable career.

It's easy to skip some of the less-than-daily tasks that need to be handled in a small business. In this episode of Business or Pressure, Allissa Haines walks you through some common tasks and universal lists. Host: Allissa Haines is a practicing massage therapist and business owner. You can find her building websites and coaching massage therapists at deepbreathdigital.com. Links: Website: www.deepbreathdigital.com Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/purepromassageproducts Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/purepromassageproducts/ YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCncpFzRVwZA_V_SnylkHyMw