Post-Growth Australia Podcast

In this discussion, scientist and author George Tsakraklides delves into the roots of humanity’s crises and civilizational collapse. He critiques our evolutionary wiring and societal structures that block meaningful change. The conversation highlights the pitfalls of capitalism and science in tackling climate issues, while examining social media's influence on perception and reality. George advocates for empathy in environmental activism and underscores the vital need for a deeper connection to nature as a pathway to engage with despair and foster a more meaningful existence.

Susie Russell is a long-time activist and campaigner for protecting Australia’s forests who holds committee positions in The North East Forest Alliance, the North Coast Environment Council, 4Nature and The Rainforest Information Centre. Susie was awarded the Miles Dunphy Award in 2024 and soon after was arrested as part of the Save Bulga Forest movement for obstructing logging in endangered glider habitat. In this episode we explore several critical issues including the persistent effects of growth-driven capitalism on the natural environment as well as the urgent need for deep, systemic change to avert impending ecological collapse. Drawing on decades of experience in environmental and social justice activism, Susie goes on to offer a distinctive and holistic vision for a post-growth future where humanity can thrive in harmony with the natural world. • For further reading, we recommend Susie’s interview with the Finding Courage publication: “Standing Up (Even When All Seems Lost).” • PGAP was introduced to Susie through John Seed, who we interviewed in the season 5 finale: “Going deep into Deep Ecology with John Seed.” Many thanks to all of our listeners for your support. You are welcome to support PGAP further by sharing this episode with your friends, family and networks. You are also welcome to rate and review us on Apple Podcast or your favourite podcast platform. You can send us your feedback, thoughts and suggestions on the PGAP Contact form. You can find out more about your PGAP co-hosts Mark Allen and Michael Bayliss HERE and HERE.Special Guest: Susie Russell.

In 2024, the University of New South Wales (UNSW) held a panel discussion on Degrowth as part of their Centre for Ideas series. The panellists were Tommy Wiedmann (Professor of Sustainability Research), Bronwen Morgan (Professor of Law and member of NENA), and Sabrina Chakori (CSIRO researcher). The discussion was hosted by former Deputy Lord Mayor and author of Glimpses of Utopia, Jess Scully. The panel explored sustainability and the urgent challenge of ensuring human needs are met without compromising a sustainable and inclusive future. With the kind permission of UNSW Centre for Ideas, the recording of this panel discussion is now available to listen to on the Post-Growth Australia Podcast (PGAP). Tommy Wiedmann has been a supporter of PGAP since our early days in 2021, so it was great to hear him in his element, sharing his research, knowledge, and ideas on Degrowth. We really appreciate Tommy and panel host Jess Scully giving PGAP a shout-out towards the end of the talk. We hope to return the favour by sharing this insightful discussion, which serves as an excellent introduction to Degrowth for those new to the topic. It is encouraging to see Degrowth becoming an openly discussed subject in Australian universities. Tommy also wrote a very encouraging review for PGAP on Apple Podcast. We warmly invite you to add your review. This will help to broaden our outreach and encourage new listeners. Please also feel welcome to contact us with your feedback or suggestions for future episode topics. Co-hosts Mark Allen and Michael Bayliss share their thoughts on the panel discussion in the introduction and conclusion. For the most part, we align with the perspectives of the four panellists, but we also provide additional thoughts on how the Degrowth movement can incorporate concerns around population, which we briefly touch on in our commentary. For a more in-depth analysis, we encourage you to read the PGAP blog: “To populate or not to populate? How we can come together around the eternal debate of everyone’s favourite vexed issue.” We also encourage listening to two recent PGAP episodes on population, including Anne Poelina, who brings a First Nations’ perspective to the debate, and Isaac Kabongo, who brings a Ugandan/Global South perspective. Regarding the discussion on population, Tommy cited two particularly relevant scientific articles, which are well worth reading: Lamb, W. F., Wiedmann, T., Pongratz, J., Andrew, R., Crippa, M., Olivier, J. G. J., Wiedenhofer, D., Mattioli, G., Khourdajie, A. A., House, J., Pachauri, S., Figueroa, M., Saheb, Y., Slade, R., Hubacek, K., Sun, L., Ribeiro, S. K., Khennas, S., de la Rue du Can, S., Chapungu, L., Davis, S. J., Bashmakov, I., Dai, H., Dhakal, S., Tan, X., Geng, Y., Gu, B. and Minx, J. (2021) A review of trends and drivers of greenhouse gas emissions by sector from 1990 to 2018. Environmental Research Letters, 16, 073005.[ http://dx.doi.org/10.1088/1748-9326/abee4e](. http://dx.doi.org/10.1088/1748-9326/abee4e) Kikstra, J. S., Mastrucci, A., Min, J., Riahi, K. and Rao, N. D. (2021) Decent living gaps and energy needs around the world. Environmental Research Letters, 16, 095006. https://dx.doi.org/10.1088/1748-9326/ac1c27 We would like to thank UNSW, the Centre for Ideas, and all four speakers for allowing PGAP to re-release this outstanding panel discussion. The original podcast of this discussion is available to listen to on the Centre for Ideas website HERE. All views, opinions, and legacies—past and present—of the panellists and UNSW Centre for Ideas are their own and may not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of PGAP (and vice versa).Special Guests: Bronwen Morgan, Jess Scully, Sabrina Chakori, and Tommy Wiedmann.

Isaac Kabongo is the CEO of the Uganda-based Ecological Christian Organisation (ECO), a faith-driven initiative dedicated to fostering environmental stewardship at the grassroots level. ECO works to integrate sustainability with community-led action, including raising awareness about family planning and contraception. By reframing the relationship between Christianity, family planning, and discussions around population, the organisation provides an important bridge between faith and sustainability. In addition to his leadership at ECO, Isaac has represented Sustainable Population Australia (SPA) at each international COP talk since 2012, playing a key role in shaping discussions on how the Global South and Global North can collaborate to address population related issues. A committed advocate for Degrowth and Ecological Sustainability, Isaac’s insights are a vital contribution to the post-growth movement. Isaac speaking on a panel at a recent COP As we are all aware, population sustainability remains a contentious issue. However, it is too often that the voices of experts from Global South communities remain unconsulted. In this episode, PGAP asks Isaac several pertinent questions relevant to the population debate, including: "As a Ugandan citizen, how would you reassure the international community that it is a good thing that organisations within Australia and Uganda work together to address overpopulation in Uganda and other countries in the Global South?" While Sustainable Population Australia (SPA) campaigns strongly on the domestic population issues facing Australia, less is known about the organisation’s commitment to the global stage. We hope this episode will be an inspiration on global partnerships in response to delivering on basic human rights such as access to family planning and reproductive healthcare. Issac was interviwed for the SPA February 2025 Newsletter, which can be downloaded here. Isaac Kabongo representing SPA at a COP exhibition stall, photographed with fellow exhibitors. For more PGAP episodes that explore Global South perspectives on population, we recommend our interviews with Women for Conversation (Colombia) and Florence Blondel (who is also from Uganda). Please share this and other episodes of PGAP with your friends, family and networks. Also, feel welcome to rate and review PGAP on Apple Podcast, subscribe to PGAP, or contact us with your feedback. During this episode, we play the latest single from new West Australian band ‘Mobile Zebra’. You can find out more about your co-hosts Michael Bayliss and Mark Allen here and here.Special Guest: Isaac Kabongo.

In late 2024, Sustainable Population Australia (SPA) proudly welcomed Professor Anne Poelina as its newest Patron. This mini-episode features the audio recording from a video interview that co-host Michael Bayliss conducted with Anne as part of SPA's Meet the Patrons series. An abridged version of this interview is available on YouTube. As a Nyikina Warrwa Traditional Owner from the Kimberley region of Western Australia, Professor Poelina brings a profound commitment to integrating Indigenous First Australian wisdom into discussions on degrowth, population, and immigration policies. At PGAP, we strongly believe that First Nations perspectives are essential in shaping a collaborative path toward a more equitable and sustainable future. Prof. Poelina's invitation to be Patron for SPA was partly inspired by her past interview on PGAP: "Saving the Martuwarra-Fitzroy river with Professor Anne Poelina". You can read more about Anne at SPA's patron page HERE. Anne is also the chair of the Martuwarra Fitzroy River Council and her work on water security aligns with SPA’s most recent discussion paper: “Big thirsty Australia: how population growth threatens our water security and sustainability.” We’d love to hear your thoughts on this episode of PGAP! CONTACT US HERE with your feedback, ideas for future episodes, or suggestions for potential guests. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with your networks, leaving a review on APPLE PODCAST, or SUBSCRIBING. You can find out more about your co-hosts Mark Allen HERE and Michael Bayliss HERE.Special Guest: Prof. Anne Poelina.

In this episode of Post-Growth Australia Podcast (PGAP), we pay tribute to Dr. John Coulter, who sadly passed away in September 2024. John Richard Coulter (3 December 1930 – 6 September 2024) was a trailblazer in the conservation movement, most notably serving as Leader of the Australian Democrats in the early 1990s. In 1971, he organised an open letter published in The Australian newspaper, addressed "to those who shape Australia’s destiny," urging them to recognise the limits to growth. (This episode is in memory of Dr John Coulter) John remained an executive member of Sustainable Population Australia (SPA) until the end of his life. Through SPA, he fearlessly challenged mainstream media for neglecting critical issues such as overpopulation and the limits to growth. In 2021, PGAP had the privilege of interviewing John at his home in the Adelaide Hills. Unfortunately, a bushfire had swept through the property a few months earlier, leaving much of the land scarred. Walking through the devastated bushland was a sobering experience and a stark reminder of the profound changes occurring as society’s growth experiment entered the "decade of consequence." This interview was originally broadcast in 2021 as part of the episode World Population Day 2021. For this memorial episode, we are re-releasing that conversation, as John’s thoughts, perspectives, and reflections resonate even more powerfully in retrospect. Co-hosts Mark Allen and Michael Bayliss share their reflections on the interview and John’s legacy, particularly his pioneering work in the early 1970s for the broader post-growth movement. (The 1971 Newspaper open letter) A heartfelt tribute to John Coulter was penned by Dr Bob Brown: "I was sad to hear of John Coulter’s death, but that sadness was quickly replaced by a celebration of John’s remarkable, life-long advocacy for the environment. In his time as the Democrats’ spokesperson, he was the major Australian political voice for protecting this nation’s wildlife, wild regions, and oceans, as well as promoting greener living for us all. He was a gentleman but unswerving in his devotion to life on Earth. South Australia and the nation are indebted to John for a long, caring, and actively eco-saving career." One of John’s final articles, "The Guiding Criminal Lie in Economics", was published in Pearls and Irritations in 2024. A moving tribute in the same publication, "Vale Dr. John Coulter", was written by former SPA President Jenny Goldie. In April 2024, John was invited to become a Patron of SPA—a role that he very much cherished during the brief months before his passing. The Post-Growth Australia Podcast will take a short break over the festive season before returning to Season Seven in January. In the meantime, we warmly encourage you to share this and other episodes of PGAP with your friends, family, and networks. You can rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, and we welcome your feedback, thoughts, and suggestions for future episodes. You can contact us HERE. Remember, podcasts are rapidly becoming a key medium for mass communication and influence in the modern age. It is vital that we work together to ensure the message of Degrowth reaches a wide audience. To learn more about your PGAP co-hosts and their broader work, visit the respective websites for Mark Allen and Michael Bayliss. PGAP is made possible by the kind support of Sustainable Population Australia.Special Guest: John Coulter.

The aftermath of the US election has left many of us in a state of shock. Voters were faced with a stark choice between more growth-based neoliberalism or alt right extremism, choosing the latter. It was a great day for billionaires either way. As Australia looks to face a very similar choice in mid-2025, it is clear that activists must take stock, recalibrate and work together effectively to advocate for a third alternative that celebrates people and planet. PGAP co-hosts Mark Allen and Michael Bayliss discuss their responses to the election and their recent engagements toward a Degrowth future. In this episode, Michael shares the speech that he gave on Degrowth at the Torbay Festival, Western Australia in late October – just before the election. A quote from the talk: “What can we do as Davids against the Goliaths of psychopathic multinational corporations and the politicians who serve time as their apologists for a few years in the promise of a cushy job in the gas industry? This is where I invite you to think about where from here and let’s have the conversation.” This is a conversation that needs to happen with greater urgency as humanity lurches towards an increasingly dark future. A transcript of Michael’s talk can be read on the PGAP BLOG. Mark shares his most recent posting on Holistic Activism following the US election. As Mark explains, “this message isn’t a call for optimism or hope…instead, it’s a call to hold space and to serve both human and non-human futures, with an awareness of our profound interconnectedness.” The post may be read at the Holistic Activism website HERE. You can be part of the Holistic Activism movement today by joining the HA FACEBOOK GROUP. PGAP is also proud to be the first to play Mark’s new song ‘Ballad of Yakamia’ performed by his occasional and ongoing musical project ‘Counting Backwards.’ You can download or purchase the song from BANDCAMP. One take away from the US election is that podcasts have now overtaken mainstream media as public informers. However, did you know that the top 10 performing podcasts tend to lean more towards right wing populism? It is time that podcasts that offer genuine solutions – planned degrowth, steady state economics, wellbeing societies, and stabilising populations start to make a bigger splash in the mainstream media. We have been very happy with the performance of PGAP’ Season Seven opener, “Rethinking Sustainability” which is looking to break PGAP download records. We invite you to help us to build this momentum. Please SUBSCRIBE and share PGAP with your friends, family and networks. You can rate and review us on APPLE PODCAST. CONTACT US with your feedback and recommendations for future episode. This episode is made possible by the kind support of Sustainable Population Australia. SPA is the only population organisation in the world, that has demonstrated unequivocal support from the broader public, for a sensible and rational population policy. With 17,500 signatures to their position statement, SPA has demonstrated that the issue doesn’t have to be ugly or divisive to win popular support (someone should have told the Republicans). SPA has also released a sobering report on Australia’s water security: “Big thirsty Australia: how population growth threatens our water security and sustainability”. A couple more links: This blog piece from CASSE, A Steady Stater’s Response to the Harris-Trump Debate is good for a 'Degrowth' perspective on the Democract/Republic dichotomy. This video from Resilience.Org, A Dozen Years of Economic Thumb Twiddling, also resonates with us. From George Monbiot: Trump has pledged to wage war on planet Earth – and it will take a progressive revolution to stop him. "Voters have never been swayed by ‘rational debate’. Only a genuine change in the way we do politics can prevent the march of the right". Indeed.

Welcome back to a brand-new Season Seven of Post Growth Australia Podcast! As our world teeters on the edge of an increasingly perilous environmental future—extending beyond climate change—we must ask: what does true sustainability entail? How far are we from it, what are the root causes of our current trajectory, and what paths could lead us there? Rod Taylor (author, columnist, radio host) asks these very questions to eleven esteemed Australian scientists and thinkers in a brand-new radio documentary. PGAP is proud to be the first platform to share this thought-provoking documentary, which explores ecological economics, planned Degrowth and Modern Monetary Theory. Rod Taylor is author of “Ten Journeys on a Fragile Planet”, co-author with Mark Diesendorf of “The Path to a Sustainable Civilisation” and co-editor with Stephen Williams, of the groundbreaking book, “Sustainability and the New Economics”. Rod is also host of the ‘Fuzzy Logic Science Show.” Rod was a previous guest on PGAP (Fuzzy Logic on a Fragile Planet with Rod Taylor). Stephen Williams and Mark Disendorf were also past guests on PGAP. You can listen to their episodes HERE and HERE. The impressive list of guests on the documentary ‘Rethinking Sustainability' include (in order of appearance): • Prof David Lindenmayer • Prof Will Steffen • Prof Clive Hamilton • Dr Kerryn Higgs • Prof Philip Lawn • Dr Mark Diesendorf • Prof Steve Keen • Ian Dunlop • Prof Steven Hail • High Court Justice Michael Kirby • Prof Ian Lowe Last but not least, a shout out to environmental scientist David Tiller, who provided production assistance in the making of this documentary. This episode of PGAP was produced just before the disastrous election results in the USA. As such your co-hosts Michael Bayliss and Mark Allen come across as merely VERY pessimistic at the state of the world, instead of EXTREMELY. Stay tuned for our upcoming episode, where we’ll address these events in more depth and discuss the underlying systemic issues that shape our society. In the meantime, you can explore these ideas further through Mark’s Holistic Activism movement. Now more than ever, it is important that progressive podcasts are supported, as some panacea to the extreme right leaning media that are dominating the airwaves. Please consider supporting PGAP by sharing this and other episodes with your networks, leaving a review on Apple Podcast and contacting us with your thoughts and feedback. This episode of Post-Growth Australia Podcast was made possible with the kind support of Sustainable Population Australia. Special Guest: Rod Taylor.

For the season six finale, PGAP welcomes three core members of Degrowth Network Australia: Sandy Gonzalez de la Vega Gonzalez, Tonié Field and Jess Prescott. According to the Degrowth blog: "As degrowth becomes a more familiar term worldwide, a loose informal network of Australian degrowth activists, scholars and advocates has emerged into the formal Degrowth Network Australia (DNA)." Although a new collective, DNA has already made their mark through workshops, Degrowth themed festivals, and at the New Economy Network Australia 2023 conference, through theatrical degrowth scenario skits. It was through this interactive workshop at the 'Life After Capitalism' conference that PGAP co-host Michael Bayliss was inspired to invite DNA as esteemed PGAP guests. During this episode, we explore the emerging popularity of the Degrowth movement and how presenting Degrowth concepts within fun and interactive ways such as theatrical skits is a means of broadening the movement beyond the academic sphere and include younger generations, local communities and mainstream society. Our guests each share their stories of how they arrived at the Degrowth movement and their perspectives on why we can't have infinite growth on a finite planet. To contribute, join the DNA network or get more details, contact Anisa Rogers at degrowthnetwork@proton.me or Natalie Lowrey at natalie.lowrey@gmail.com or campaign@aidwatch.org.au Remember to RATE and REVIEW PGAP on APPLE PODCAST or on your favourite platform. You can also SUBSCRIBE to PGAP or CONTACT US with your thoughts, feedback or suggestions for future topics and guests. As we take a short break, we would really love to hear from you, our valued listeners and PGAP community. In the meantime, you may also be interest in PGAP's coverage of the NENA conference HERE (Michael is still kicking himself for not recording the DNA workshop at the conference). You can find out more about your co-hosts Michael Bayliss HERE and Mark Allen[ HERE].(https://holisticactivism.net/)Special Guests: Sandy Gonzalez de la Vega Gonzalez and Tonié Field.

The way we design and plan our cities and towns significantly influences our daily lives, which, in turn, affects our carbon emissions and ecological footprints. Australia's continually expanding cities are a striking example of this, illustrating the consequences of an unrelenting pursuit of growth. Fortunately, there are a few urban planners who recognise that transitioning to a degrowth, steady-state system is imperative for the future of urban planning. Our special guest, Emeritus Professor Michael Buxton (OAM) is one such expert. Michael Buxton is one of the most well known and most quoted planning professors in Australia and has taught thousands of planning students over the years at RMIT University and Monash University, as well as working in the public service for 12 years. Despite officially being retired, Michael continues to play a huge role in town planning issues, including being interviewed for podcasts such as PGAP. As a resident of Melbourne, Michael discusses his home city as a case study throughout the interview to illustrate the current state of urban planning. In particular, he draws attention to the Victorian government’s obsession with ‘growth at all cost’ and their ongoing deregulation of the urban planning sector. This episode provided us with an opportunity to discuss the importance of systemic change towards a post growth society and why this will lead to much better planning and development outcomes. We invite you to share this very important episode among your networks and rate and review PGAP on Apple Podcast, or contact us with your thoughts and ideas. PGAP is made possible by the support of Sustainable Population Australia (SPA). All opinions, views and legacies past and present of our guests are exclusive theirs and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of PGAP or SPA. Speaking of Sustainable Population Australia, PGAP co-hosts Mark Allen and Michael Bayliss worked with SPA on an animated video, "The Endless Growth Paradigm", launched in 2019. The animation explores why we need to break from a system of endless economic and population growth. Otherwise, our neighbourhoods will never be dense enough, our cities will never stop sprawling and we will never catch up with the infrastructure backlog. The video has amassed ten thousand views on YouTube and we believe it is still very relevant five years later. If you are keen to revolutionise the town planning sector, we encourage you to check out Town Planning Rebellion or, if you are a resident of Victoria, Planning Democracy, chaired by Kelvin Thomson. PGAP has explored the issue of urban planning and overdevelopment several times. If you would like to find out more, we recommend our interviews with Kelvin Thomson, Alex Baumann and David Holmgren. Looking outside Victoria, we interviewed several Western Australian groups fighting overdevelopment. You may also be interested in your co-hosts Mark and Michael’s own perspectives in the episode: “Housing Crisis?? What Housing Crisis!!”Special Guest: Michael Buxton.