Sinica Podcast

This episode of the Sinica Podcast, recorded in June 2017, is running as a bonus this week. The arrest of Stephen Bannon yesterday on August 20, 2020, has brought renewed media attention to Guō Wénguì 郭文贵, a business associate of Bannon’s who is wanted by the Chinese government. The Wall Street Journal has recently reported that the federal authorities are examining the pair’s business dealings. Alexandra Stevenson and Mike Forsythe, journalists for the New York Times, joined Kaiser and Jeremy in 2017 to share their thoughts on Guo’s uncertain personal history and his quest to shine a light on the murky world of Chinese elite politics. The original description of the podcast, including many useful references of the people in Guo’s complicated backstory, is reproduced below:The life and times of Chinese billionaire Guo Wengui 郭文贵 reads much like an epic play, so it is fitting that we have included with this podcast a dramatis personæ to explain the many characters in Guo’s story. Scroll to the bottom, below the recommendations, to follow along with them in order of appearance.New York Times journalists Mike Forsythe and Alexandra Stevenson have spent over a dozen hours with the turbulent tycoon at the New York City penthouse overlooking Central Park where he resides in exile, listening to his stories and carefully investigating his most scandalous claims. Mike has for years been a leading reporter on the intersection of money and power in elite Chinese politics, first at Bloomberg and then at the Times. Alex, as a reporter at the Financial Times and now the New York Times, has focused on covering hedge funds, emerging markets, and the world of finance.Are Guo’s myriad corruption allegations, which go as high as China’s anti-corruption chief, Wang Qishan 王岐山, credible? Is even Guo’s own life history verifiable? Who is he really, and why is he on this quest to unveil the shadowy world of Chinese elite politics? Mike and Alex don’t have all the answers, but they are two of the best people in the world to shed light on what is profound and what is puffery in Guo’s version of events.The life and times of Chinese billionaire Guo Wengui 郭文贵 reads much like an epic play, so it is fitting that we have included with this podcast a dramatis personæ to explain the many characters in Guo’s story. Scroll to the bottom, below the recommendations, to follow along with them in order of appearance.New York Times journalists Mike Forsythe and Alexandra Stevenson have spent over a dozen hours with the turbulent tycoon at the New York City penthouse overlooking Central Park where he resides in exile, listening to his stories and carefully investigating his most scandalous claims. Mike has for years been a leading reporter on the intersection of money and power in elite Chinese politics, first at Bloomberg and then at the Times. Alex, as a reporter at the Financial Times and now the New York Times, has focused on covering hedge funds, emerging markets, and the world of finance.Are Guo’s myriad corruption allegations, which go as high as China’s anti-corruption chief, Wang Qishan 王岐山, credible? Is even Guo’s own life history verifiable? Who is he really, and why is he on this quest to unveil the shadowy world of Chinese elite politics? Mike and Alex don’t have all the answers, but they are two of the best people in the world to shed light on what is profound and what is puffery in Guo’s version of events.Dramatis personæ:To read more on Guo Wengui himself, see our narrative explainer and a compilation of more recent news on Guo from SupChina and beyond.In order of mention in the podcast:1.  Yue Qingzhi 岳庆芝, Guo Wengui’s wife, lives in New York, according to Guo. Yet she has not been seen in public nor by Mike and Alex, even though they have spent entire days at Guo’s penthouse. 2. Wang Qishan 王岐山, the leader of Xi Jinping’s anti-corruption campaign, secretary of the Central Commission for Discipline Inspection (CCDI).3. Li Keqiang 李克强, the current premier of China’s State Council, formerly a Party secretary in Henan Province where Guo claims to have met him.4. Wu Yi 吴仪 served in top ministerial positions negotiating trade and managing public health in the early 21st century. Guo claims to have developed a relationship with her back in Henan.5. Wu Guanzheng 吴官正 served as secretary for CCDI from 2002 to 2007.6. Ma Jian 马建, the now-jailed close associate of Guo who served as vice minister of State Security from 2006 to 2015.7. Liu Zhihua 刘志华, the former vice mayor of Beijing who was dismissed in 2006. Liu received a suspended death sentence for taking bribes of over 6 million yuan ($885,000) in October 2008.8. He Guoqiang 贺国强, the predecessor to Wang Qishan as secretary of the CCDI. Guo alleges that his son He Jintao 贺锦涛 had a financial stake in Founder Securities at the time Guo tried to muscle his way into the company (the Times has confirmed this).9. HNA Group, formerly Hainan Airlines, a politically connected business conglomerate that burst onto the public scene in 2016, scooping up foreign companies left and right.10. Hu Shuli 胡舒立, the editor-in-chief of business news and investigative outlet Caixin (disclosure: Caixin partners with SupChina on the Business Brief podcast).11. Li You 李友, Guo’s former business partner. In 2016, he was sentenced to four and a half years in prison and fined 750 million yuan ($110 million) for insider trading.12. Yao Mingshan 姚明珊, the wife of Wang Qishan.13. Meng Jianzhu 孟建柱, the current secretary of the Central Political and Legal Affairs Commission, which controls the police and security services.14.  Xiao Jianhua 肖建华, another billionaire tycoon who had experience dealing at the top levels of the Chinese government. Xiao was apparently abducted by Chinese authorities in Hong Kong in late January 2017 and has not been seen in public since then.15.  Zhang Yue 张越, a former provincial Party secretary in Hebei Province.16. Meng Huiqing 孟会青, a now-jailed former CCDI official.17. Fu Zhenghua 傅政华, the deputy minister of Public Security.18. Yao Qing 姚庆, grandson of revolutionary and former vice premier Yao Yilin 姚依林, and nephew-in-law of Wang Qishan.19. Guo’s two children, his son, Mileson Kwok 郭强 (Guo’s English name is Miles!), and his daughter, Guo Mei 郭美, whom Guo claims went to New York University with Ma Jian’s daughter.20. A “dissident-minder from Guobao” (Ministry of Public Security 国保 guó bǎo), identified later in the podcast as Sun Lijun 孙立军, one of two people Guo claims to have met with in Washington, D.C., in late May 2017.21. Amanda Bennett, the director of Voice of America (VOA), which aired an interview with Guo on April 19 that Guo and some VOA journalists complained was cut short.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, Kaiser and Jeremy chat with Leland Lazarus, an American diplomat stationed in Barbados. Leland is a China specialist, and the conversation focuses on the U.S. response to growing Chinese influence in the Caribbean — an area that the U.S. has long considered its backyard, and a region that is home to many of the states that still maintain diplomatic relations with the Republic of China or Taiwan.7:41: Beijing’s diplomatic aspirations 12:28: How China is getting involved in island economies14:17: Sentiments in the region toward Chinese investment23:53: Taiwanese and Chinese diplomatic recognition34:13: COVID-19 and the impact on American and Chinese influence in the regionRecommendations:Jeremy: Secrets of Snakes: The Science Beyond the Myths, by David A. Steen. He can also be found on Twitter @AlongsideWild. Leland: The popular Chinese-language podcast Story FM, an association promoting black engagement in East Asia called the National Association for Black Engagement in Asia, and the U.S. Foreign Service — check out career options here. Kaiser: A Beijing-based folk metal band called Chǔgē 楚歌 (Songs of Chu).This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Susan Thornton, former senior U.S. diplomat, returns to the Sinica Podcast this week. This conversation was recorded during the Princeton U.S.-China Coalition virtual event on August 1, 2020. Kaiser and Susan discuss the value of American diplomacy with China and if such engagement can help salvage what remains of a deeply strained bilateral relationship between China and the United States. 9:27: Swapping diplomacy for machismo at the State Department23:06: The sharp falloff in candidates entering the U.S. Foreign Service28:29: Fatalism and China34:08: Distrust and vilify, Washington’s new China policyRecommendations:Susan: Mr. X and the Pacific: George F. Kennan and American Policy in East Asia, by Paul J. Heer. Kaiser: The TV show Better Call Saul, available on Netflix.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week, Kaiser and Jeremy chat with Adam Tooze, professor of history at Columbia University and author of Crashed: How a Decade of Financial Crises Changed the World, about the impact of the COVID-19 crisis on the U.S. and China, and how it has affected their position in the emerging geopolitical contest.6:45: American power and political authority14:01: China’s power during the pandemic20:27: Trump’s deliberate strategy of “stress testing” 33:24: The Trump administration’s full-court press against the CCPRecommendations:Jeremy: Wu Fei’s Music Daily: an email newsletter with an original piece of music every day of the week by a composer and guzheng virtuoso. (Disclosure: She is his wife.) Adam: The Feast of the Goat: A Novel, written by Mario Vargas Llosa and translated by Edith Grossman.Kaiser: The Hunt for Vulcan: ...And How Albert Einstein Destroyed a Planet, Discovered Relativity, and Deciphered the Universe, by Thomas Levenson.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, Kaiser chats with Sir Danny Alexander, vice president and corporate secretary of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank and former Liberal Democrat MP and chief secretary to the Treasury of the United Kingdom. Sir Danny gives an overview of how Asia’s financial sector has been impacted by COVID-19.5:27: The United Kingdom’s decision to join AIIB11:49: AIIB and its accountability framework in decision making25:16: How U.S.-China relations have affected AIIB34:00: What AIIB is pushing investors toward nowRecommendations:Danny: Tengger Cavalry, a heavy metal band from Inner Mongolia.  Kaiser: The heavy metal bands Ego Fall and Nine Treasures.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, Kaiser and Jeremy talk to Wall Street Journal reporters Bob Davis and Lingling Wei about their great new book, Superpower Showdown: How the Battle Between Trump and Xi Threatens a New Cold War.5:11: The increasingly insulated Chinese political elite18:08: Chinese import competition and its effect on U.S. manufacturing employment28:27: Líu Hè 刘鹤 and internal politics within Chinese trade negotiations41:28: Chinese negotiators’ perceptions of their American counterparts1:03:29: Huawei’s role in the trade warRecommendations: Jeremy: This Chinese-to-pinyin generation tool by 蛙蛙工具 (“Frog Tools”). Conversely, Jeremy does NOT recommend Quibi. Lingling: The book Wild Swans: Three Daughters of China, by Joan Chang. Bob: The new TV series Perry Mason, available on HBO, as well as the Australian TV series Rake.Kaiser: The dark comedy TV series Search Party, available on HBO Max. This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, Kaiser chats with Andy Purdy, chief security officer of Huawei USA, and Paul Triolo, practice head of geotechnology at the Eurasia Group. They explore the complexities of the 5G ecosystem, challenges to cybersecurity on 5G networks, the process of standards setting in advanced telecommunications, and how the Trump administration's animus toward Huawei might ultimately handicap the U.S. in this vital emerging technology.5:18: What 5G will enable us to do18:06: 5G standard setting bodies and their functions29:55: China’s involvement in the standard setting process37:05: 5G deployment around the world50:59: The collateral damage done by banning HuaweiRecommendations:Andy: A People's History of the United States, by Howard Zinn, and The Road Less Traveled: A New Psychology of Love, Traditional Values and Spiritual Growth, by M. Scott Peck.Paul: Superpower Showdown: How the Battle Between Trump and Xi Threatens a New Cold War by Bob Davis and Lingling Wei, and The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying by Sogyal Rinpoche. Kaiser: The YouTube channel of Joe Parrish, a content creator and guitarist.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Late on the night of June 15, a deadly melee erupted on the banks of the Galwan River, in a disputed region called Ladakh, high in the mountains between China and India. To help guide a discussion on this landmark event in China-India relations, Kaiser welcomes back Ananth Krishnan, a longtime correspondent for The Hindu, who is based in Beijing. Ananth discusses the context of the clash, which pits two massive, nuclear-armed states with increasingly nationalistic populations and growing regional ambitions against each other, and assesses the prospects for a settlement of the long-standing border dispute.5:56: Context behind the India-China border clash17:49: Indian sentiments toward China before the Galwan Valley skirmish33:30: India’s future in the global geopolitical system43:19: What could be ahead for the India-China relationshipRecommendations: Ananth: Choices: Inside the Making of India’s Foreign Policy, by Shivshankar Menon, and a docuseries that explores the creation of the hit TV series The Mandalorian, titled Disney Gallery: Star Wars: The Mandalorian.Kaiser: The Takshashila PLA Insight newsletter, by Suyash Desai, and The Expanse, a sci-fi series available on Amazon Prime Video. This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, Kaiser speaks with Michael Berry, the translator of the Wuhan-based writer Fang Fang’s controversial Wuhan Diary: Dispatches from a Quarantined City. Michael discusses Fang Fang’s body of work and how her daily online posts on WeChat (which were compiled to become her book) drew the ire of critics who have denounced the diary as an act of national betrayal and have even leveled threats against both the author and the translator. Michael Berry is a professor of contemporary Chinese cultural studies and the director of the Center for Chinese Studies at UCLA. 5:21: Reflections on Fang Fang’s Soft Burial 10:42: Fang Fang’s diary, and its backlash 21:08: An excerpt from Wuhan Diary 31:07: COVID-19: The common enemy of humankind Recommendations:Michael: The album Free Spirit, by the band Chandresh Kudwa. For a taste, you can listen to the title track here. Kaiser: The mockumentary TV show called What We Do in the Shadows.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, Kaiser chats with Bloomberg’s chief economist, Tom Orlik, about his new book, China: The Bubble That Never Pops. A longtime resident of Beijing, Tom wrote for the Wall Street Journal before joining Bloomberg as chief Asia economist. His book argues that Beijing's leaders have learned valuable lessons from their own history and from the experiences of other countries, and applied them well to China's own economy. 5:33: The bears have it wrong on China10:08: Debt obligations and local government finance18:29: What the Chinese leadership has learned, and what it hasn’t30:21: Shadow loans, and the shadow banking sector 47:42: The tools that China’s central banks have to deal with riskRecommendations:Tom: China’s Unfinished Economic Revolution, by Nicholas R. Lardy, and The Story of the Stone, or The Dream of the Red Chamber, Vol. 1: The Golden Days, by Cáo Xuěqín 曹雪芹, translated by David Hawkes.Kaiser: The 2010 Chinese television series Three Kingdoms.This podcast was edited and produced by Kaiser Kuo and Jason MacRonald.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.