
Democracy Paradox
Is it possible for a democracy to govern undemocratically? Can the people elect an undemocratic leader? Is it possible for democracy to bring about authoritarianism? And if so, what does this say about democracy? My name is Justin Kempf. Every week I talk to the brightest minds on subjects like international relations, political theory, and history to explore democracy from every conceivable angle. Topics like civil resistance, authoritarian successor parties, and the autocratic middle class challenge our ideas about democracy. Join me as we unravel new topics every week.
Latest episodes

Feb 7, 2023 • 48min
Anna Grzymala-Busse on the Sacred Foundations of Modern Politics
While war creates the need for a state, it obliterates the capacity to deliver one. We're seeing that in Ukraine right now. That if you want to develop a state, you need peace, not war. War may create the need for a state, but peace is what allows you to build one. I think that that might be a lesson worth emphasizing, especially these days.Anna Grzymala-BusseBecome a Patron!Make a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Anna Grzymała-Busse is the Michelle and Kevin Douglas Professor of International Studies at Stanford University. She is also the Director of the Europe Center and a Senior Fellow at the Freeman Spogli Institute. Her latest book is Sacred Foundations: The Religious and Medieval Roots of the European State.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:38Medieval Governance - 2:42Papal Strategies - 16:43Law, Taxation, and Representation - 25:07Ongoing Influences - 40:25Key LinksSacred Foundations: The Religious and Medieval Roots of the European State by Anna Grzymala-BusseFollow Anna Grzymala-Busse on Twitter @AnnaGBusseLearn more about Anna Grzymala-BusseDemocracy Paradox PodcastOlivier Zunz on Alexis de TocquevilleDavid Stasavage on Early Democracy and its DeclineMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on DemocracyDemocracy Paradox is part of the Amazon Affiliates Program and earns commissions on items purchased from links to the Amazon website. All links are to recommended books discussed in the podcast or referenced in the blog.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Jan 31, 2023 • 43min
Francis Fukuyama Responds to Liberalism's Discontents
I think that there is a core set of shared values that liberals have to embrace. You know, if they don't believe in a rule of law, they don't believe in the fundamental legitimacy of their constitutional order, that's a big problem. But as I said, probably the strongest argument in favor of liberalism is this pragmatic one. That this is something that allows pluralistic diverse societies to live in peace with one another.Francis FukuyamaClick Here to Join Patreon and Access the Bonus Episode with Final Thoughts on the Last Three Episodes on LiberalismMake a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:47Interpretation of Liberalism - 3:04Liberalism and Democracy - 17:15Conservative Critique - 26:22Threats to Liberalism - 39:16Key LinksLiberalism and its Discontents by Francis FukuyamaThe End of History and the Last Man by Francis FukuyamaLearn more about Francis FukuyamaDemocracy Paradox PodcastMichael Walzer on Liberal as an AdjectivePatrick Deneen Offers a Powerful Critique of LiberalismMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on DemocracyDemocracy Paradox is part of the Amazon Affiliates Program and earns commissions on items purchased from links to the Amazon website. All links are to recommended books discussed in the podcast or referenced in the blog.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

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Jan 24, 2023 • 45min
Patrick Deneen Offers a Powerful Critique of Liberalism
By my reading of political philosophy every regime in a sense ultimately comes to an end because its contradictions ultimately undermine whatever virtues it might have had. I don't have a crystal ball, but I think it's a very real possibility that we're in a hinge of history where the next thing is in the offing and my hope is that that next thing is going to be a better and more humane way of organizing our society because the prospects of a worse and less humane way is also ever real and ever worrying.Patrick DeneenBecome a Patron!Make a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Patrick Deneen is a Professor of Political Science at Notre Dame University. He is the author of Why Liberalism Failedand the forthcoming Regime Change: Toward a Postliberal Future.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:51Deneen's Critique of Liberalism - 2:57Human Rights - 14:06Democracy - 25:18Why Not Reform or Repair - 37:38Key LinksWhy Liberalism Failed by Patrick DeneenRegime Change: Toward a Postliberal Future by Patrick DeneenPostliberal Order SubstackDemocracy Paradox PodcastMichael Walzer on Liberal as an AdjectiveOlivier Zunz on Alexis de TocquevilleMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on DemocracyDemocracy Paradox is part of the Amazon Affiliates Program and earns commissions on items purchased from links to the Amazon website. All links are to recommended books discussed in the podcast or referenced in the blog.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Jan 17, 2023 • 27min
Michael Walzer on Liberal as an Adjective
It doesn't have a fixed character. It's a mindset that has to do with a respect for human rights and civil liberties, toleration of different religions, and an ability to live with ambiguity. So, I like the idea of liberal as a qualifier on other and more specific and coherent commitments.Michael WalzerBecome a Patron!Make a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Michael Walzer is an emeritus professor at the Institute for Advanced Study. He was also a longtime editor of Dissent. He is the author of many books including the classic of political philosophy Spheres of Justice. His most recent book is called The Struggle for a Decent Politics: On “Liberal” as an Adjective.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:45What is Liberalism? 3:53Liberal Democracy - 11:47Liberal Nationalism - 17:35How Does Liberalism Change? 22:14Key LinksThe Struggle for a Decent Politics: On "Liberal" as an Adjective by Michael WalzerSpheres Of Justice: A Defense Of Pluralism And Equality by Michael WalzerInstitute for Advanced StudyDemocracy Paradox PodcastOlivier Zunz on Alexis de TocquevilleMichael Ignatieff Warns Against the Politics of EnemiesMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on DemocracyDemocracy Paradox is part of the Amazon Affiliates Program and earns commissions on items purchased from links to the Amazon website. All links are to recommended books discussed in the podcast or referenced in the blog.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Jan 10, 2023 • 49min
Robert Kagan Looks to American History to Explain Foreign Policy Today
We think that because we’re children of the Enlightenment, the way the world is moving is gradually toward liberalism. I think the natural course of the world is away from liberalism and it has only been American power that has sustained this aberration in world history.Robert KaganBecome a Patron!Make a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Robert Kagan is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institute, a columnist at The Washington Post, and among the most influential writers on foreign policy today. His latest book is Ghost at the Feast: America and the Collapse of World Order, 1900-1941.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:37American and WWI - 2:37Isolationism and Retrenchment - 16:40Troops in the Rhineland - 31:36Parallels to Today - 42:32Key LinksThe Ghost at the Feast: America and the Collapse of World Order, 1900-1941 by Robert Kagan"A Free World, If You Can Keep It" by Robert Kagan in Foreign Affairs"The Weight of Geopolitics" by Robert Kagan in the Journal of DemocracyDemocracy Paradox PodcastLarry Diamond on Supporting Democracy in the World and at HomeCharles Kupchan on America’s Tradition of IsolationismMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on DemocracyDemocracy Paradox is part of the Amazon Affiliates Program and earns commissions on items purchased from links to the Amazon website. All links are to recommended books discussed in the podcast or referenced in the blog.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Jan 3, 2023 • 33min
Olivier Zunz on Alexis de Tocqueville
Tocqueville’s Democracy in America is only partly a book on America. It's also a book of comparative thinking and it's a book of theoretical invention. So, Democracy in America is a theory of democracy. Part of it is about America and part of it is Tocqueville’s theoretical genius pushing through.Olivier ZunzBecome a Patron!Make a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Olivier Zunz is the James Madison Professor Emeritus of History at the University of Virginia. He is among the foremost scholars of Alexis de Tocqueville and the author of The Man who Knew Democracy: The Life of Alexis de Tocqueville.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:44Democracy in America - 2:21Tocqueville as Political Theorist - 15:56Tocqueville the Politician - 22:14Tocqueville's Legacy - 27:17Key LinksThe Man who Knew Democracy: The Life of Alexis de Tocqueville by Olivier Zunz"Cancel Tocqueville?" by Tarek Masoud in the Journal of DemocracyLearn more about Olivier ZunzDemocracy Paradox PodcastMichael Ignatieff Warns Against the Politics of EnemiesLarry Diamond on Supporting Democracy in the World and at HomeMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on DemocracyDemocracy Paradox is part of the Amazon Affiliates Program and earns commissions on items purchased from links to the Amazon website. All links are to recommended books discussed in the podcast or referenced in the blog.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Dec 27, 2022 • 36min
Lynette Ong Describes How China Outsources Repression
The state is able to take advantage of the social capital by deploying social actors and in exercising social capital, through the process of persuasion. They'll be putting on pressure on these families, but the pressures being put on them are social pressures. People would often cave into this social pressure. So, there is compliance, but it doesn't feel like state repression.Lynette OngBecome a Patron!Make a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Lynette Ong is a professor of political science at the Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy at the University of Toronto. She is the author of the recent book Outsourcing Repression: Everyday State Power in Contemporary China.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:48Thugs for Hire - 2:47Political, Economic, and Social Brokers - 12:52Zero-Covid Protests - 20:34Outsourcing Repression After the Protests - 32:17Key LinksOutsourcing Repression: Everyday State Power in Contemporary China by Lynette Ong"China’s Massive Protests Are the End of a Once-Trusted Governance Model" by Lynette Ong in the Foreign PolicyLearn more about Lynette OngDemocracy Paradox PodcastJessica Pisano on How Zelenskyy Changed UkraineLucan Way on Ukraine. Democracy in Hard Places.More Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on DemocracyDemocracy Paradox is part of the Amazon Affiliates Program and earns commissions on items purchased from links to the Amazon website. All links are to recommended books discussed in the podcast or referenced in the blog.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Dec 20, 2022 • 44min
Olga Onuch and Henry Hale Describe the Zelensky Effect
I just want to say that I don't think Zelensky has changed Ukraine. He amplified it. He mirrored what was already there in his time as an actor and comedian. He tried to show the realities and positions of ordinary Ukrainians as they saw them themselves and he then amplifies that and emphasizes that as a Ukrainian.Olga OnuchBecome a Patron!Make a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Olga Onuch is a Senior Lecturer in Politics at the University of Manchester. Henry E. Hale is a Professor of Political Science and International Affairs at George Washington University. They are the authors of a new book called The Zelensky Effect.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:44The Maidan and the Independence Generation - 2:59Zelensky's Origins - 9:19The Zelensky Effect - 23:05The Future of Ukraine - 33:11Key LinksThe Zelensky Effect by Olga Onuch and Henry E. Hale"Why Ukrainians Are Rallying Around Democracy" by Olga Onuch in the Journal of DemocracyLearn more about Olga OnuchDemocracy Paradox PodcastJessica Pisano on How Zelenskyy Changed UkraineLucan Way on Ukraine. Democracy in Hard Places.More Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on DemocracyDemocracy Paradox is part of the Amazon Affiliates Program and earns commissions on items purchased from links to the Amazon website. All links are to recommended books discussed in the podcast or referenced in the blog.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Dec 13, 2022 • 42min
Elizabeth Economy in a Wide Ranging Conversation About China
But if you think that China can change and that Xi Jinping is not inevitable and Xi Jinping two and three and four and five are not inevitable, then I think that leads you to a slightly different set of policy recommendations. A set that's probably more open to discussion to ensuring that we continue to quote ‘Engage with China.’Elizabeth C. EconomyBecome a Patron!Make a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Elizabeth C. Economy is serving as the Senior Advisor for China to the Secretary of Commerce. She is on leave from her role as a Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution. Previously she served as the Asia Director at the Council for Foreign Relations. Her past books include The Third Revolution: Xi Jinping and the New Chinese State and more recently The World According to China. The views expressed in this podcast are her own and do not reflect the official position of the US Government or the Commerce Department.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:43China's Foreign Policy Priorities - 2:57BRI & Chinese Investments - 11:21Indo-Pacific Economic Framework - 22:25Future Issues and Concerns - 28:23Key LinksThe World According to China by Elizabeth C. Economy"Dissent is Not Dead" by Elizabeth C. Economy in the Journal of DemocracyLearn more about Elizabeth C. Economy at the Hoover InstituteDemocracy Paradox PodcastSarah Cook on China’s Expanding Global Media InfluenceAynne Kokas on the Intersection Between Surveillance Capitalism and Chinese Sharp Power (or How Much Does the CCP Already Know About You?)More Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on DemocracyDemocracy Paradox is part of the Amazon Affiliates Program and earns commissions on items purchased from links to the Amazon website. All links are to recommended books discussed in the podcast or referenced in the blog.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Dec 6, 2022 • 40min
Richard Wike Asked Citizens in 19 Countries Whether Social Media is Good for Democracy
When people think about social media, they think about the upsides of it. It speaks to what they want in democracy that they're not getting. They feel disconnected, voiceless, and not empowered. So, if there's ways that social media can play a role in empowering people and giving them a voice and holding accountable leaders that they don't think listen to them, those are upsides and that's some of the reasons why you get more positive evaluations of social media than we might think.Richard WikeBecome a Patron!Make a one-time Donation to Democracy Paradox.A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Richard Wike is director of global attitudes research at Pew Research Center. He conducts research and writes about international public opinion on a variety of topics, such as America’s global image, the rise of China, democracy, and globalization. His latest report (coauthored with Laura Silver, Janell Fetterolf, Christine Huang, Sarah Austin, Laura Clancy and Sneha Gubbala) is "Social Media Seen as Mostly Good for Democracy Across Many Nations, But U.S. is a Major Outlier."Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:47Role of Survey Research - 2:47Views on Social Media and Democracy - 5:27Differences by Age - 16:35Social Media Engagement - 24:23 Key Links"Social Media Seen as Mostly Good for Democracy Across Many Nations, But U.S. is a Major Outlier" by Richard Wike, Laura Silver, Janell Fetterolf, Christine Huang, Sarah Austin, Laura Clancy and Sneha Gubbala"Liberal Democracy’s Crisis of Confidence" by Richard Wike and Janell Fetterolf in the Journal of DemocracyLearn more about Richard Wike at the Pew Research CenterDemocracy Paradox PodcastAllie Funk of Freedom House Assesses Global Internet FreedomRonald Deibert from Citizen Lab on Cyber Surveillance, Digital Subversion, and Transnational RepressionMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox, Facebook, Instagram @democracyparadoxpodcast100 Books on DemocracyDemocracy Paradox is part of the Amazon Affiliates Program and earns commissions on items purchased from links to the Amazon website. All links are to recommended books discussed in the podcast or referenced in the blog.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show
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