
Democracy Paradox
Is it possible for a democracy to govern undemocratically? Can the people elect an undemocratic leader? Is it possible for democracy to bring about authoritarianism? And if so, what does this say about democracy? My name is Justin Kempf. Every week I talk to the brightest minds on subjects like international relations, political theory, and history to explore democracy from every conceivable angle. Topics like civil resistance, authoritarian successor parties, and the autocratic middle class challenge our ideas about democracy. Join me as we unravel new topics every week.
Latest episodes

May 25, 2021 • 50min
Can America Preserve Democracy without Retreating from it? Robert C. Lieberman on the Four Threats
Racism and racial conflict are always there, always a powerful and important part of American politics. But when they combine with polarization, with this kind of partisan antagonism, and when that becomes the dividing line between the parties, that's really dangerous. That's what happened in the 1850s. It led to civil war. That's what happened in the 1890s. It led to violent conflict and mass disenfranchisement. And it's happening again today.Robert C. LiebermanA full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Key Highlights IncludeAn account of the 1898 insurrection in Wilmington, North Carolina.Is polarization the fault of both sides or is one party responsible?How the election of 1896 affected American democracy.How polarization, conflicts over who belongs, rising economic inequality, and executive aggrandizement interact to threaten democracy in the United States.Does the preservation of democracy really require democratic backsliding?Robert Lieberman is a professor of political science at Johns Hopkins University and coauthored Four Threats: The Recurring Crises of American Democracy with Suzanne Mettler.Key LinksFour Threats: The Recurring Crises of American Democracy by Robert C. Lieberman and Suzanne Mettler"Together, You Can Redeem the Soul of Our Nation" by John Lewis in The New York TimesFollow Rob Lieberman on Twitter @r_liebermanRelated ContentDerek W. Black Says Public Education Represents the Idea of America... Not its RealityJacob Hacker and Paul Pierson on the Plutocratic Populism of the Republican PartyMore from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicThe Science of PoliticsEmail the show at democracyparadoxblog@gmail.comFollow me on Twitter @DemParadox100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

May 18, 2021 • 55min
Kurt Weyland Distinguishes Between Fascism and Authoritarianism
In the 19th century Europe had thought that they had moved towards liberalism, enlightenment, rationality, progress, that stuff like mass warfare was over and it wouldn't come back. And then you have four years of senseless, mass slaughter, they just totally destroyed or challenged those ideas of humankind getting better off, progress of humankind getting more civilized. In retrospect, it's hard to imagine the coincidence of deep challenges and crises that wrecked the interwar years.Kurt WeylandA full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Key Highlights IncludeKurt clarifies the concept of totalitarian fascism from conservative authoritarianismA description of the political environment of the interwar periodWhy did authoritarians disliked communism and fascism?Why did fascism emerge during this period?Is there a parallel between the interwar period to today?Kurt Weyland is a professor of political science at the University of Texas at Austin and the author of the new book Assault on Democracy: Communism, Fascism, and Authoritarianism During the Interwar Years. Key LinksAssault on Democracy: Communism, Fascism, and Authoritarianism During the Interwar Years by Kurt Weyland"The Real Lessons of the Interwar Years" by Agnes Cornell, Jørgen Møller, Svend-Erik Skaaning in Journal of Democracy, July 2017Problems of Democratic Transition and Consolidation by Juan J. Linz and Alfred StepanRelated ContentAgnes Cornell and Svend-Erik Skaaning on the Interwar PeriodPaul Robinson on Russian ConservatismMore from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicAnother Way PodcastEmail the show at democracyparadoxblog@gmail.comFollow me on Twitter @DemParadox100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

May 11, 2021 • 56min
James Loxton Explains Why Authoritarian Successor Parties Succeed in Democracies
They really view their history as one of victimization, one of struggle and even martyrdom. ARENA had multiple leaders assassinated. Again, that version of history that I just told you, that's not necessarily my view. But I do actually believe that that is their sincere belief and it makes for a really compelling founding myth if you will. And I think that founding myth has helped to hold both parties together right up until the present day.James LoxtonA full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Key Highlights IncludeWhy do voters elect leaders with ties to former dictators?Description of authoritarian successor partiesChallenges for conservative party formationA brief history of the UDI in Chile and ARENA in El SalvadorThe role of counterrevolutionary struggleKey LinksConservative Party-Building in Latin America: Authoritarian Inheritance and Counterrevolutionary Struggle by James Loxton"Authoritarian Successor Parties" by James Loxton in Journal of Democracy, July 2015Visit James at www.jamesloxton.netRelated ContentBryn Rosenfeld on Middle Class Support for Dictators in Autocratic RegimesAmy Erica Smith on Politics and Religion in BrazilMore from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicDemocracy Matters PodcastEmail the show at democracyparadoxblog@gmail.comFollow me on Twitter @DemParadox100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

May 4, 2021 • 53min
Derek W. Black Says Public Education Represents the Idea of America... Not its Reality
I find it hard to believe, without a lot more justification than they're offering that somehow that there's this new secret sauce to opportunity and equality and democracy that does not involve public education as the fundamental pillar. So you have people arguing that it's not. They're not saying we want to destroy democracy, but I'm saying, you as reader, you as listeners, need to think about the long-term consequences of shrinking the public education footprint and moving back into a siloed or a fiefdom or a private system that resembles our darkest days.Derek W. BlackA full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Key Highlights IncludeDerek explains the case for a right to education.A brief history of public education in the United StatesHow the NAACP used the language of democracy in their litigation for school desegregationWhy vouchers and charter schools threaten public educationFinally, the intersection of public education and democracy runs throughout the conversationKey LinksSchoolhouse Burning: Public Education and the Assault on American Democracy by Derek W. BlackSan Antonio Independent School District et. al. v. RodriguezFollow Derek W. Black @DerekWBlackRelated ContentJacob Hacker and Paul Pierson on the Plutocratic Populism of the Republican PartyCarolyn Hendriks, Selen Ercan and John Boswell on Mending DemocracyMore from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicSwamp StoriesEmail the show at democracyparadoxblog@gmail.comFollow me on Twitter @DemParadox100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Apr 27, 2021 • 48min
Sheryl WuDunn Paints a Picture of Poverty in America and Offers Hope for Solutions
That's why all Americans should care. Because the cost of poverty is not just the cost to that person who is in poverty. It's a cost to all of society. We're all paying for people being jailed. We're all paying for extra costs in the legal system, in the police force, in the healthcare system.Sheryl WuDunnA full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Key Highlights IncludeStories of Poverty and Inequality in AmericaChallenges in America in Education, Health, and Well-BeingImpact of Poverty on Children with an Explanation of Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs)Collective Responsibility to Solve Social ProblemsRethinking of Social Programs as Investments Rather than OutlaysSheryl WuDunn is a pulitzer prize winning reporter, business executive, and the author of Tightrope: Americans Reaching for Hope (along with her husband Nicholas Kristof). Key LinksTightrope: Americans Reaching for Hope by Sheryl WuDunn and Nicholas KristofTightrope: Americans Reaching for Hope - PBS Documentary Presented by Show of ForceFollow Sheryl on Twitter @WuDunnRelated ContentJacob Hacker and Paul Pierson on the Plutocratic Populism of the Republican PartyZizi Papacharissi Dreams of What Comes After DemocracyMore from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at democracyparadoxblog@gmail.comFollow me on Twitter @DemParadox100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Apr 20, 2021 • 55min
Mike Hoffman on How Religious Identities Influence Support for or Opposition to Democracy
Doctrine is actually often a lot looser and more subject to interpretation than we tend to assume and the way that the doctrine gets interpreted is often partially a function of group interests themselves. If you have a religious group in a given country that believes it would benefit from democracy, it's pretty likely that that group will find a way to interpret and frame its doctrine in a way that supports democracy.- Mike HoffmanA full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Key Highlights IncludeRole of Religion in Identity FormationHow Communal Prayer Shapes Religious IdentityWays Group Interests Shape Perspectives on DemocracyDescription of Lebanon's Political SystemWhy Some Groups Oppose DemocracyMike Hoffman is a professor of political science at Notre Dame and the author of Faith in Numbers: Religion, Sectarianism, and Democracy.Key LinksFaith in Numbers: Religion, Sectarianism, and Democracy by Michael HoffmanEconomic Origins of Dictatorship and Democracy by Daron Acemoglu and James RobinsonPatterns of Democracy by Arend LijphartRelated ContentElizabeth Nugent on Polarization, Democratization and the Arab SpringBryn Rosenfeld on Middle Class Support for Dictators in Autocratic RegimesMore from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicDemocracy WorksEmail the show at democracyparadoxblog@gmail.comFollow me on Twitter @DemParadox100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Apr 13, 2021 • 54min
Shari Davis Elevates Participatory Budgeting
Participatory budgeting is actually about connecting folks with the skills and resources to navigate and shape government. And so, for me, that is the most optimistic and the most important outcome of any participatory budgeting process.Shari DavisA full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Key Highlights IncludeA walk through the process of participatory budgeting with an exampleThe history of participatory budgeting around the worldAn example of participatory budgeting in ChinaThe Role of Art in DemocracyNext steps for Participatory BudgetingShari Davis leads the Participatory Budget Project as its Executive Director. They have over 15 years working in local government beginning in high school. And not long ago they were honored as an Obama Fellow. Key LinksParticipatory Budgeting ProjectDemocracy Beyond Elections"Why is Democracy Performing so Poorly" by Francis FukuyamaRelated ContentHélène Landemore on Democracy without ElectionsCarolyn Hendriks, Selen Ercan and John Boswell on Mending DemocracyMore from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicHow Do We Fix It?Email the show at democracyparadoxblog@gmail.comFollow me on Twitter @DemParadox100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Apr 6, 2021 • 45min
Chris Bickerton Defines Technopopulism
That tension between the politics of the whole and the politics of the part, that tension between the politics of generality and the politics of particularity, is really at the heart of party democracy. What we are sort of trying to capture, I suppose, with technopopulism is to think of a form of politics where that tension has simply gone.Chris BickertonA full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Key Highlights Include- Chris describes Technopopulism through an explanation of the Five Star Movement in Italy- We discuss how populists and technologists consider expertise- How technopopulism is different from classic interest-based politics- We discuss ANO and the Pirate Party in the Czech Republic- Barak Obama is analyzed in the lens of technopopulism- Chris explains how he thinks we can move beyond technopopulismChris Bickerton is a reader of of Modern European Politics at the University of Cambridge. Alongside Carlo Invernizzi Accetti, he is the coauthor of Technopopulism: The New Logic of Democratic Politics. He is also a frequent panelist on Talking Politics. More InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicLet's Find Common GroundKey LinksTechnopopulism: The New Logic of Democratic Politics by Christopher Bickerton and Carlo Invernizzi Accetti"Understanding the Illiberal Turn: Democratic Backsliding in the Czech Republic" by Seán Hanley and Milada Anna VachudovaFive Star Movement at WikipediaRelated ContentChad Alan Goldberg on the Wisconsin Idea and the Role of the Public University in a DemocracyThomas Carothers and Andrew O'Donohue are Worried About Severe PolarizationMore from the PodcastLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Mar 30, 2021 • 47min
Ross Benes on Nebraska and Rural Conservatism
The legislature is one of several examples of our history of being independent which is why I think it was such an important story to tell of Nebraska becoming like baptized into Republican orthodoxy. Because seeing that shift. That it wasn't always that way. We founded Arbor day in this state, we settle a lot of refugees per capita, we increased minimum wage, and Medicaid through ballot measures recently. We do stuff like that.- Ross BenesA full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Red states and blue states. Republicans and Democrats. Rural and urban. Polarization. It is a term often heard about American politics. Most states find their politics lean heavily toward one party or the other. And Nebraska is no different. It is a very conservative state so it makes sense for it to elect Republicans.But not too long ago Democrats competed for state offices. In fact, Nebraska had at least one Democratic Senator from 1977 until 2012. It’s really only been the last ten years where Democrats could not compete in the state. Of course, the Democrats it elected were about as conservative as many Republicans. But Nebraska also has a history of progressive reforms. In fact, it was often rural America who championed many of the progressive ideas in the early twentieth century. This realization has caused me to go through a variety of different counterfactuals. Like why are rural Americans conservative and urban Americans liberal? Is there a scenario where this is reversed? I’m not looking to rewrite history. I just want to understand how politics change over time. And maybe where it is going next. Because history shows some of the things we take for granted have not always been that way. My guest Ross Benes grew up in Nebraska before moving to New York City. He has the kind of expat perspective that has given so many writers both clarity and insight. His recent book is Rural Rebellion: How Nebraska Became a Republican Stronghold. Ross and I, we discuss why Democrats no longer compete in Nebraska. But I don’t want anyone to think Nebraska has to elect Democrats to prove their commitment to democracy. That’s not the point. Nebraska is one of many states with very little genuine competition between parties for statewide office. My concern is effective governance needs a range of perspectives to succeed. And this problem is not unique to Nebraska nor are many liberal states immune. More InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicOur Body PoliticKey LinksRural Rebellion: How Nebraska Became a Republican Stronghold by Ross BenesFighting Liberal by George NorrisThe Politics of Resentment: Rural Consciousness in Wisconsin and the Rise of Scott Walker by Katherine CramerRelated ContentChad Alan Goldberg on the Wisconsin Idea and the Role of the Public University in a DemocracyJacob Hacker and Paul Pierson on the Plutocratic Populism of the Republican PartyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Mar 23, 2021 • 55min
Chad Alan Goldberg on the Wisconsin Idea and the Role of the Public University in a Democracy
They had an obligation to take the knowledge that they were developing, to take their expertise and put it in the service of the community as a whole and the service of its elected leaders.Chad Alan GoldbergA Fulll Transcript is Available at www.democracyparadox.com.At the turn of the twentieth century, Wisconsin was at the forefront of the Progressive Movement. Wisconsin adopted the first modern state income tax. It initiated the first workers’ compensation plan. It enacted the first unemployment insurance program. Wisconsin even spearheaded important constitutional reforms like the direct election of Senators. UW Madison Professor Patrick Brenzel explains, “To say that Wisconsin was known nationally for transparent and egalitarian government is an understatement.”These reforms were the product of a relationship between the public university, legislators, and other stakeholders. It is known as the Wisconsin Idea. The Wisconsin Idea is a belief the public university has a role to contribute its research to the service of the state. A common motto is “The boundaries of the university are the boundaries of the state.” The Wisconsin Idea remains central to the mission of the University of Wisconsin system to this day, but has become the subject of attacks from conservatives in recent years. Among the many efforts by Scott Walker to dismantle the administrative state included an attempt to remove the Wisconsin Idea from the university charter. It failed, but it highlights how there is a genuine debate about the role of public universities. Chad Alan Goldberg has been at the forefront of the effort to defend the Wisconsin Idea in recent years. He is a professor of sociology at the University of Wisconsin Madison and the editor of the volume Education for Democracy: Renewing the Wisconsin Idea. This book features chapters from many leading scholars in a variety of disciplines including Kathy Cramer. Our conversation discusses some of the history behind the Wisconsin Idea. But it is really about the role of the public university. How is a public university different from a private university? Why does the public support universities? And how does a public university help to shape democracy? These are important questions I never thought to ask, but will mean a lot as we work to renew democracy.More InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicPolitics in QuestionKey LinksEducation for Democracy: Renewing the Wisconsin IdeaThe Wisconsin Idea by Charles McCarthyThe Politics of Resentment: Rural Consciousness in Wisconsin and the Rise of Scott Walker by Katherine CramerRelated ContentRyan Salzman is an Evangelist for PlacemakingZizi Papacharissi Dreams of What Comes After DemocracyThoughts on John Dewey's Democracy and EducationLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show
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