
Democracy Paradox
Is it possible for a democracy to govern undemocratically? Can the people elect an undemocratic leader? Is it possible for democracy to bring about authoritarianism? And if so, what does this say about democracy? My name is Justin Kempf. Every week I talk to the brightest minds on subjects like international relations, political theory, and history to explore democracy from every conceivable angle. Topics like civil resistance, authoritarian successor parties, and the autocratic middle class challenge our ideas about democracy. Join me as we unravel new topics every week.
Latest episodes

Jul 12, 2022 • 44min
Scott Mainwaring on Argentina and a Final Reflection on Democracy in Hard Places
I think they're really important. But I don't think that they are a complete safeguard. Certainly, when you create democracies in hard places, you want to think very carefully about what institutions you want in place and how you strengthen them. But if you get illiberal governing parties in democracies in hard places, they can run over institutions.Scott MainwaringSupport Democracy Paradox on Patreon for bonus episodes and exclusive updates and information. A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Scott Mainwaring is the Eugene P. and Helen Conley Professor of Political Science at the University of Notre Dame. He is also a faculty fellow at the Kellogg Institute for International Studies, where he previously served as director for 13 years and is a current Advisory Board member. He is the coeditor (with Tarek Masoud) of Democracy in Hard Places.Key HighlightsIntroduction 0:47Why is Argentina a hard place for democracy? 2:35Are democracies in hard places the exception or the norm? 9:19Is Peronism a threat to democracy? 12:01How can democracies strengthen institutions? 19:32What role do citizens play? 33:27Key LinksLearn more about Scott Mainwaring"The Fates Of Third-Wave Democracies" by Scott Mainwaring and Fernando Bizarro in the Journal of DemocracyDemocracy in Hard Places edited by Scott Mainwaring and Tarek MasoudDemocracy Paradox PodcastLucan Way on Ukraine. Democracy in Hard Places.Rachel Beatty Riedl on Benin. Democracy in Hard Places.More Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Jul 5, 2022 • 41min
Lucan Way on Ukraine. Democracy in Hard Places
The war is never going to really end. Because even in the most optimistic scenario where Ukraine regains its territory and it goes back to the 1991 borders, Russia is almost certainly going to present a permanent threat to Ukrainian sovereignty. I think objectively it will. But even if objectively it wasn’t, after such an invasion, you can imagine the political environment's going to treat it as one.Lucan WaySupport Democracy Paradox on Patreon for bonus episodes and exclusive updates and information. A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Lucan Way is a Professor of Political Science at the University of Toronto. He coauthored (along with Steven Levitsky) Competitive Authoritarianism: Hybrid Regimes After the Cold War. He has a new book also coauthored with Steven Levitsky due this fall called Revolution and Dictatorship: The Violent Origins of Durable Authoritarianism. He is the author of the chapter "Georgia, Moldova, and Ukraine: Democratic Moments in the Former Soviet Union" in the book Democracy in Hard Places.Key HighlightsWhat makes Zelensky such a special leader?Why wasn't Ukraine considered more democratic before Russia's invasion?How has the war impacted democracy in Ukraine?What role did Ukraine's ethnic pluralism contribute to democratization?What challenges will Ukrainian democracy face after its war with Russia?Key LinksRevolution and Dictatorship: The Violent Origins of Durable Authoritarianism by Steven Levitsky and Lucan WayFollow the Lucan Way on Twitter @LucanWay"The Rebirth of the Liberal World Order?" by Lucan Way in the Journal of DemocracyDemocracy in Hard Places edited by Scott Mainwaring and Tarek MasoudDemocracy Paradox PodcastSarah Repucci from Freedom House with an Update on Freedom in the WorldStephan Haggard and Robert Kaufman on Democratic BackslidingMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Jun 28, 2022 • 36min
Michael Coppedge on Why Democracies Emerge, Why They Decline, and Varieties of Democracy (V-Dem)
Democracy is a complex concept. It has to do with elections. It has to do with legislatures. It has to do with civil society organizations and courts and political styles of politicians. There's a lot packed into the concept and it's multidimensional, because some of these components don't move together.Michael CoppedgeSupport Democracy Paradox on Patreon for bonus episodes and exclusive updates and information. A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Michael Coppedge is a Professor of Political Science at the University of Notre Dame, a principal investigator of the Varieties of Democracy project, and a faculty fellow at the Kellogg Institute for International Studies. He is a coeditor (along with Amanda Edgell, Carl Henrik Knutsen, and Staffan Lindberg) of Why Democracies Develop and Decline.Key HighlightsDemocracy as a multidimensional conceptHow the conditions for democratization differ from those for backslidingWays researchers use information from V-Dem to discover new insights about democracyNew findings from V-Dem research regarding presidentialism, party system institutionalization, and anti-system partiesHow has V-Dem changed research about democracyKey LinksLearn more about the Varieties of Democracy ProjectFollow the V-Dem Institute on Twitter @vdeminstituteWhy Democracies Develop and Decline edited by Michael Coppedge, Amanda B. Edgell, Carl Henrik Knutsen and Staffan I. LindbergDemocracy Paradox PodcastSarah Repucci from Freedom House with an Update on Freedom in the WorldStephan Haggard and Robert Kaufman on Democratic BackslidingMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Jun 21, 2022 • 47min
Rachel Beatty Riedl on Benin. Democracy in Hard Places.
So, at some level, a belief in democracy was necessary in Benin as in elsewhere. Support for it - Absolutely. But what's interesting in the Benin case is that you were lacking that level of political elite leadership that were committed democratic ideologues.Rachel Beatty RiedlSupport Democracy Paradox on Patreon for bonus episodes and exclusive updates and information. A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Rachel Beatty Riedl is the John S. Knight Professor of International Studies, Director of the Einaudi Center for International Studies, and professor in the Department of Government at Cornell University. She also cohosts the podcast Ufahamu Africa with Kim Yi Dionne. Her chapter "Africa’s Democratic Outliers Success amid Challenges in Benin and South Africa" appears in the forthcoming book Democracy in Hard Places.Key HighlightsDetails the story of Benin's democratizationHow Benin has used consensus to governWhat makes Benin a democracy in a hard placeAn overview of the current President Patrice TalonCurrent threats to democracy in BeninKey LinksLearn more about the Einaudi Center for International StudiesListen to the Ufahamu PodcastFollow Rachel Beatty Riedl on Twitter @BeattyRiedlDemocracy in Hard Places edited by Scott Mainwaring and Tarek MasoudDemocracy Paradox PodcastEvan Lieberman on South AfricaChristophe Jaffrelot on Narendra Modi and Hindu NationalismMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Jun 14, 2022 • 55min
Ashutosh Varshney on India. Democracy in Hard Places
Nehru is asked several times in those early years, ‘Aren’t you doing something which has never been done before? You are 17% literate. Half of your country is below the poverty line. Under such conditions no democracy has ever stabilize itself and perhaps has not emerged.’ And his argument repeatedly is that we shouldn't be constrained by the history of the West.Ashutosh VarshneySupport Democracy Paradox on Patreon for bonus episodes and exclusive updates and information. A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Ashutosh Varshney is the Sol Goldman Professor of International Studies and the Social Sciences and Professor of Political Science at Brown University, where he also directs the Center for Contemporary South Asia. His chapter "India’s Democratic Longevity and Its Troubled Trajectory" appears in the forthcoming book Democracy in Hard Places.Key HighlightsHow India defied early theories of democratizationThe role of leadership in India's early democracyWhy India returned to democracy after Indira Gandhi's emergency?The eerie similarities between India's recent treatment of Muslims and the rise of the Jim Crow era in the American SouthWhen will democratic backsliding in India become a democratic collapseKey Links"Modi Consolidates Power: Electoral Vibrancy, Mounting Liberal Deficits" by Ashutosh Varshney in Journal of DemocracyLearn more about Ashutosh Varshney at www.ashutoshvarshney.netFollow Ashutosh Varshney on Twitter @ProfVarshneyDemocracy in Hard Places edited by Scott Mainwaring and Tarek MasoudDemocracy Paradox PodcastDan Slater on IndonesiaChristophe Jaffrelot on Narendra Modi and Hindu NationalismMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

Jun 7, 2022 • 49min
Evan Lieberman on South Africa. Democracy in Hard Places
When you hear people talk in such disparaging tones, that everything is broken, that nothing is possible, you need to ask yourself, is that right? When you look around, the answer is no. There are these examples where things do go right, where people work together and create a neighborhood or a community for themselves in which they can be prosperous and build better lives. And that's really what the democratic project is all about.Evan LiebermanSupport Democracy Paradox on Patreon for bonus episodes and exclusive updates and information. A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Evan Lieberman is a Professor of Political Science and Contemporary Africa at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Director of the MIT Global Diversity Lab, and the faculty director of the MIT International Science and Technology Initiatives (MISTI). He is the coauthor with Rorisang Lekalake of the recent article "South Africa's Resilient Democracy" in the Journal of Democracy and author of the forthcoming book Until We Have Won Our Liberty: South Africa after Apartheid.Key HighlightsWhy is Evan Lieberman optimistic about democracy in South AfricaRole of Nelson Mandela on South Africa's democracyImportance of South Africa for democracy in the worldAccount of the housing community EthembalethuWhat the 2019 election says about democracy in South AfricaKey LinksUntil We Have Won Our Liberty: South Africa after Apartheid by Evan Lieberman"South Africa’s Resilient Democracy" by Evan Lieberman and Rorisang Lekalake in Journal of DemocracyLearn more about Evan Lieberman at www.evanlieberman.orgFollow Evan Lieberman on Twitter @evliebDemocracy in Hard Places edited by Scott Mainwaring and Tarek MasoudDemocracy Paradox PodcastDan Slater on IndonesiaNic Cheeseman and Gabrielle Lynch on the Moral Economy of Elections in AfricaMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

May 31, 2022 • 51min
Dan Slater on Indonesia. Democracy in Hard Places
This might sound like a cliche, but in Indonesia it's really, really true. My hope rests in the Indonesian people and the voters. I mean, the voters, they show up. The voters have been the ones to defend democracy. They've been the ones to reject the most anti-pluralistic candidates, not all Indonesian voters, but a slim majority. They've been managing to do it.Dan SlaterSupport Democracy Paradox on Patreon for bonus episodes and exclusive updates and information. A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Dan Slater is the Weiser Professor of Emerging Democracies in the Department of Political Science and director of the Weiser Center for Emerging Democracies at the University of Michigan. Dan is also the coauthor of the forthcoming book From Development to Democracy: The Transformations of Modern Asia with Joseph Wong.Key HighlightsA brief account of how Indonesia democratizedWhat is democratization through strengthHow elites held onto power after democratizationWhat makes Indonesia a hard place for democracyThe current state of Indonesia's democracyKey LinksFrom Development to Democracy: The Transformations of Modern Asia by Dan Slater and Joseph WongDemocracy in Hard Places edited by Scott Mainwaring and Tarek MasoudFollow Dan Slater on Twitter @SlaterPoliticsDemocracy Paradox PodcastDonald Horowitz on the Formation of Democratic ConstitutionsSebastian Strangio Explains the Relationship Between China and Southeast AsiaMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

May 24, 2022 • 41min
Kathryn Stoner on How Putin's War has Ruined Russia
Boeing is pulling out, DuPont, Erickson, Analog Devices, Bombardier. Eventually all of these things are going to cause supply and production chain issues and unemployment in Russia. So, Mr. Putin doesn't have an infinite amount of time before havoc is wrought.Kathryn StonerSupport Democracy Paradox on Patreon for bonus episodes and exclusive updates and information. A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.Kathryn Stoner is the Mosbacher Director at the Center on Democracy, Development and the Rule of Law, a professor of political science at Stanford University, and a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. She is also the author of the book Russia Resurrected: Its Power and Purpose in a New Global Order. Her article “How Putin’s War Has Ruined Russia” was recently published online at journalofdemocracy.org.Key HighlightsHow has Russia's invasion of Ukraine affected perceptions of Russia's militaryHow has it affected its economy both short-term and long-termHow has it affected Russia's international standingThe affects on Russia's citizensWhat does Putin's unpredictability mean for peace in UkraineKey Links"How Putin’s War in Ukraine Has Ruined Russia" by Kathryn Stoner in Journal of DemocracyRussia Resurrected: Its Power and Purpose in a New Global Order by Kathryn StonerFollow Kathryn Stoner on Twitter @kath_stonerDemocracy Paradox PodcastMoisés Naím on the New Dynamics of Political PowerKathryn Stoner on Russia’s Economy, Politics, and Foreign PolicyMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

May 17, 2022 • 52min
Scott Radnitz on Why Conspiracy Theories Thrive in Both Democracies and Autocracies
There's something natural and organic about perceiving that the people in power are out to advance their own interests. It's in part because it’s often true. Governments actually do keep secrets from the public. Politicians engage in scandals. There often is corruption at high levels. So, we don't want citizens in a democracy to be too trusting of their politicians. It's healthy to be skeptical of the state and its real abuses and tendencies towards secrecy. The danger is when this distrust gets redirected, not toward the state, but targets innocent people who are not actually responsible for people's problems.Scott RadnitzSupport Democracy Paradox on Patreon for bonus episodes and exclusive updates and information. A full transcript is available at www.democracyparadox.com.*Please note during the interview the host says "conspiracy" rather than "conspiracy theory." The transcript has been corrected.*Scott Radnitz is an associate professor of Russian and Eurasian Studies at the University of Washington and the director of the Ellison Center for Russian, Eastern European, and Central Asian Studies. He is the author of Revealing Schemes: The Politics of Conspiracy in Russia and the Post-Soviet Region and coeditor with Harris Mylonas of the forthcoming book Enemies Within: The Global Politics of Fifth Columns. His article “Why Democracy Fuels Conspiracy Theories” was recently published in the Journal of Democracy.Key HighlightsConspiracy theories Russia uses to justify their invasion of UkraineWhy Russia relies on conspiracy theories in its political rhetoricThe use of conspiracy theories in democracies and autocraciesThe recent proliferation of conspiracy theories in the United StatesHow to mitigate the harmful effects of conspiracy theories in politicsKey Links"Why Democracy Fuels Conspiracy Theories" by Scott Radnitz in Journal of DemocracyRevealing Schemes: The Politics of Conspiracy in Russia and the Post-Soviet Region by Scott RadnitzEnemies Within: The Global Politics of Fifth Columns edited by Harris Mylonas and Scott RadnitzDemocracy Paradox PodcastRonald Deibert from Citizen Lab on Cyber Surveillance, Digital Subversion, and Transnational RepressionMoisés Naím on the New Dynamics of Political PowerMore Episodes from the PodcastMore InformationDemocracy GroupApes of the State created all MusicEmail the show at jkempf@democracyparadox.comFollow on Twitter @DemParadox100 Books on DemocracyLearn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show

May 13, 2022 • 37min
Dan Banik is In Pursuit of Development
This bonus episode is part of a series of interviews available for monthly supporters of Democracy Paradox at Patreon. Other interviews feature guests like Julia Azari, Mila Atmos, and Bob Shrum. But more importantly you'll help the podcast cover important expenses and continue to grow. Please consider becoming a monthly supporter by clicking on the link here.If you want to help the podcast in other ways, please email the host, Justin Kempf, at jkempf@democracyparadox.com. Dan Banik is a professor of political science at the University of Oslo and Director of the Oslo SDG Initiative. He also hosts the podcast In Pursuit of Development. His podcast is among the most insightful on topics of democracy, modernization, and sustainability. Past guests have included Francis Fukuyama and Daron Acemoglu. But it's Dan's ability to help listeners understand complex ideas and subjects that sets his podcast apart. In Pursuit of Development Follow on Twitter @GlobalDevPod Follow Dan on Twitter @danbanik Learn more about the Kellogg Institute for International Studies at https://kellogg.nd.edu/ Support the show
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