Salesforce Admins Podcast

Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Prag Ravichandran Kamalaveni, Founder & CEO of Skilled Cohort and the Founder & Co-Chair of Salesforce Saturday Cohort Canada. Join us as we chat about his Dreamforce presentation on AI readiness and how to be a better storyteller. You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Prag Ravichandran Kamalaveni. Why AI is moving technology from clicks to chats I caught up with Prag fresh off his Dreamforce presentation about AI readiness. The idea for his talk came from thinking about what people were saying years ago, when he started attending the conference, compared to now. If we're talking about Agentforce this year, what will we be talking about in five years? In ten years? "We are moving away from clicks and moving towards chats," Prag says. AI currently sits in the application layer, working as a tool on top of your org. But as these functionalities become more deeply embedded in everything we do, Prag predicts that an "agentic layer" will sit directly on top of your data. What this all means is that data cleanup and data quality need to be top priorities for your organization to get the most out of AI. How to find presentation topics As a 10-time Dreamforce speaker, Prag has a simple and effective approach for how he turns ideas into presentations. It starts with the topics—pick something you're excited to talk about. The best topics are in areas where you have some experience but want to learn more. "Curiosity is fundamental for success," Prag says. Write out a list of topics that you're curious about, and then look at the big picture of how they might fit together in a presentation. Prag also points out that you don't need to write a fully finished 20-minute script to submit for a conference. Technology moves so quickly that by the time you're actually giving your talk, half of the information will be out of date. Write a good abstract and focus on the core concepts. Finally, keep a sense of perspective and don't get discouraged by rejection. As an event organizer myself, I see plenty of great presentation ideas that just don't fit with the event as a whole. It's all about persistence, so keep at it. Forget the script—go for flexibility and rehearsal So you've submitted some great topics and booked that speaking gig—how do you prepare? As he's gained more experience as a speaker, Prag has stopped trying to write a detailed script. Instead of focusing on the exact words you have to say, think about what you want your audience to understand. Practice makes perfect, so make sure to take the time to rehearse your speech in front of friends, family, and anyone who will give you input. Prag has found ChatGPT to be effective for doing a few practice runs, once he prompted it to stop being so complimentary and give him direct feedback. Listen to the full episode for more insights from Prag about AI readiness and how to be a great presenter. And don't forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Salesforce Admins on the Trailhead Store Learn more Dreamforce for Admins playlist on Salesforce+ Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Essential Tips for Creating Effective Presentations Admin Trailblazers Group Admin Trailblazers Community Group Social Prag on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on X Mike on Bluesky social Mike on Threads Mike on X Full show transcript Mike: This week on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we're joined by Prag to talk all things AI readiness, from Dreamforce stages to real world slide decks, so if you've ever wondered how to prep for a major presentation in a fast moving AI world, or how tools like ChatGPT can play coach, creator and confidence booster, I promise you, you're in for a treat. Now, Prag shares what it takes to go from idea to impactful delivery, plus the pivotal role that data plays in getting AI ready. Now, whether you're planning your next big talk or just curious how AI fits into your workflow, this episode has something for you. So with that, let's get Prag on the podcast. So Prag, welcome to the podcast. Prag: Pleasure to be here, Mike, with you. Mike: Let's get started, for those people that didn't see your presentation at Dreamforce or haven't bumped into you in the community, let's do a little bit, tell me how you got started in the Salesforce community and what you presented at Dreamforce this year. Prag: Wow, okay. So you are backdating probably 15 years ago, that's when I started Salesforce. This was the pre-Salesforce classic version is when I started, and Salesforce evolved a lot, and I couldn't believe that it's already 15 years past, and I think this Dreamforce is my sixth or maybe seventh. Mike: Wow. Prag: But every Dreamforce for me is pretty amazing because of the energy and people around the globe who could able to come join us, exchange ideas, mostly the problems and the pain they're going through, it's fantastic. So I always look for Dreamforce every single year, and the energy that I take away from Dreamforce is obviously the biggest driver for me. I know people sometimes complain that they become tired by end of day four. I think, me, on the opposite, I allow to steal energy from others, so I take more energy, if it is crazy week like Dreamforce, and that's fantastic feeling for me. Mike: So you're taking other people's energy, oh no. I think this year you presented about getting AI ready. Can you talk to me? I mean, if you think about it, even in the short time that you've been, if you go back six or seven Dreamforces ago, I promise you we probably weren't talking AI, and now we are. How was that presentation and what did you talk about? Prag: So it's a very, very new topic to a lot of us. We are consuming AI in a lot of ways, and I'm pretty sure almost everyone who is listening to this podcast might have used some version of ChatGPT or Gemini at some point, but I started believing in my co-speaker, like we both started believing that we all are going to start using AI as part of our work. So the presentation, we started in a way that in the next five to 10 years, what we predict is we are going to move from application layer to data centric layer. What it means is the AI or the agent layer is going to sit on top of the data layer, and the phrase we actually mentioned at our session was, we are moving away from clicks and moving towards chats. So that's going to be a very interesting starting point when it comes to AI. How are we going to consume AI? Mike: Yeah, I mean, I feel like having just come off of [inaudible 00:04:26], even if people don't want to talk AI, they're still talking AI about just about everything. I even had an AI conversation with my Lyft driver, which I will tell you, that was probably the first time I've ever had that. Yeah. Prag: That's nice. Yeah, I think none of us could able to avoid the topic. Mike: So what did you see at Dreamforce this year that you're excited maybe to have come GA or just the next advancements in what could come out for Salesforce in 2026? Prag: Wow, there's a lot of things, but being very honest, I enjoyed this Dreamforce because the message was clear. If your AI needs to work, you need to have the right data. I think that message was little bit under the hood for a while, but I think it's been clearly communicated this time that any kind of AI content that you consume during Dreamforce, it's not even disclaimer, it's very clear that, "Hey, you need to have the right data to make sure that your AI works the way you want it to work." So first of all, kudos to the team who made this approach of making the message clear about the data layer, which is super important to make your AI works. But I also super excited about the naming convention and the name change of all the products. Mike: Oh? Prag: It's not easy to move from sales cloud to agent force sales. That's a big difference. That means that there is an organization switch at the company level, or at the product level, there's going to be a lot of agent force presence going to come along that we are going to start using probably much faster and much sooner. Those are all kind of an indications that I got, but at the same time, at the keynote, I was super surprised to see Patrick doing a demo of agent code wipe. That's beyond what I would expect to see at the keynote floor. Mike: Well, that's the whole reason we do keynotes is to wow and amaze you. Prag: Yeah, it is definitely worth getting the goosebumps moments there, for sure. Mike: Yeah. Well, let's talk a little bit about, so you presented at Dreamforce and you talked about getting AI ready, I think absent of talking about your presentation, one thing that's really relevant having just come off of a community conference, and I know quickly the holidays will be here and gone and it'll be January, February and community conferences, user groups, Trailblazer DX will be coming back. I'd love to hear your perspective on if you had some advice or things that you would love to share about how you got ready to present at Dreamforce that would be helpful for others. Prag: I think what I have done in the past as a mistake was, oh, I want to make sure that my presentation is ready or the content is completely ready before I even submit my topics to talk about. I think that's a biggest mistake that I have done in my own life and the moment I started coming out of it, because the things are changing much faster. You cannot have something ready assuming that you can present that in three months or four months, then you're going to be old dated content. So my suggestion would be, start picking up the topics that you are excited to talk about. You have experience, but also wants to gain more experience. So the curiosity is the fundamental success for you to have a successful content delivery and for that, pick a range of topics. So I'm always the security guy. I love talking about Salesforce security. It's just my thing. And now I love data. I started talking about data layers in different angles, and since I talk about security and data layer, I could able to start adopting AI topics because when you talk about anything AI, you need to have two most important things, which is the data and how secure that AI have access to the data. So it's kind of putting those puzzles together is going to be phase two of how you can start thinking of presenting to either the community conferences or trial ideas or even at Salesforce World Tours. So these are the two fundamental things that I would be picking before I start worrying about how to deliver that presentation. Mike: Yeah, I completely agree, I mean, selfishly, the event organizer in me would love to have everybody have all their topics ironed out, but in reality, if you have a really good idea and a really thoughtful abstract that explains it, it makes me think of the Wayne Gretzky quote, you just have to skate to where the puck will be. Which is you have to know that you're going to create that presentation even though it's not created right now, so I think that's really good advice because sometimes people can think they have to sit down and have a fully vetted idea before they submit, and you don't, you just have to know that your idea will come together and be incredibly helpful for others. Prag: Exactly. Again, I was one of those folks who made that mistake, but the moment I moved out of it, now I start my presentation with just a piece of paper or a Google Doc. I won't even go to Google Slide and have four or five bullets. I would, "Okay, this is the four or five things I want to talk about that. What could be a potential title?" And then I pick a title and I usually submit at least three or four different kinds and versions of the content, because again, don't give up if your topic didn't get selected. I have seen so many people, if they don't get selected to speak within the first two or three times, then they started believing that they are not the good presenters or they don't know how to submit their topics, and they started giving up on not taking that approach of submitting the topics. I want to tell them that my topics has been rejected many times compared to the times of the topics that's been selected. So rejection is good at times to make sure that it's not your turn yet doesn't mean that you never get your turn. Mike: Yeah, I mean, having been on both sides of the fence on that, it's amazing, but if you think about it relevant to other things like applying for a job, you apply for jobs when you're searching for a job. And yes, there's jobs that you really want, but you also apply knowing you're not just the only person applying, and to your point, it's not like you find one job and apply for it and then go, "Oh, well, I guess nobody ever will employ me again, just because I got rejected from that one." From an event standpoint, it's a combination of, what are the contents being submitted, what is the mix that the event is looking for, and what do I have to pick from? And sometimes you can be one of a thousand submissions on a certain topic, and it's not that your content isn't good, it's one of a thousand, and there's maybe only two or three slots. And other times it can be, boy, I've had it where, like in your case, I've needed one or two sessions on a certain topic, and thankfully there was one or two submissions on that. And so I hate to say it's luck, but a lot of it is. It's being open and flexible and kind of making presentations that fit for what the organizer's looking for. Prag: Exactly, exactly. So I think if people get clarity around that, I think they won't get demotivated for not getting selected. Mike: No, I mean, it's also, how many times do you buy a lottery ticket and you don't win the lottery, right? If you bought a lottery ticket, you're like, "Well, I'm going to win." And then you don't win and you're like, "I'm never buying a lottery ticket again." Come on. I mean, I hate to say it's the same way, but part of it is that's kind of just how, when you're in a big pool like that, it works, and sometimes the reverse also holds true. You can submit something and it may be a great presentation, it just doesn't fit for what the company or the organization's looking for. I mean, I've gone through lots of call for presentations for other events, and I'm like, "This is a really good subject." And from my perspective, it's really good, but from an organizer's perspective, it's good, it just doesn't fit what they're looking for. And so it's like being cinnamon and somebody's trying to make a ravioli dish, and I'm not saying cinnamon's bad, cinnamon's really good with sugar and frosting. You can make cinnamon rolls, it's just, we're trying to make ravioli over here and cinnamon doesn't work out. Prag: Yeah, yeah, no, I one hundred percent agree with that. So yeah, these are all something that I suggest people to think before submitting their topics. But once it gets accepted, I think the best thing that you can do as a presenter is not to have a pre-written script. Mike: I would agree. Prag: And I have tried it multiple times and almost every single time I failed because if things are not going as per the plan, which 90 percent of the time it doesn't, then the moment you get into the panic mode, the script that you remember magically disappeared and you started blanking, you started blinking, you started filling with words that is, even though it's appropriate, but it doesn't match the exact tone that you're trying to say certain things. So what I started practicing for the last decade is, "Okay, I'm going to talk about the things that I do know and I'm not going to stick with a specific script." And if I'm speaking with my co-speaker and if my co-speaker took more time, then if I don't have a script for me, I could able to shorten the version of the content that I plan to deliver. So there are a lot of flexibility and lot of freedom that you get if you do not have a script that's pre-written and you want to stick with it, which is not easy for people who doesn't have English as their native language because I'm coming from that background. But once you started practicing by delivering presentation without scripts, it's easy, it's comfortable, and you won't go into a panic mode any time. Mike: I couldn't agree more. As somebody that presents a lot and helps prepare presenters, there's definitely a point in time that a script is necessary to help you kind of vet out what the talking points are, but you're not in a play, you're not in a musical, you're not in a blockbuster movie where you have to say it word for word. And the thing that I always remind presenters when they get up on stage is, people will remember how they feel when they saw your presentation. People will remember the passion and the information better if you just speak to, what is the point you're trying to make across. And a script is definitely a step in that, you need something to kind of get your framework about it, but I think too often people do get hung up. Even English speakers, where we're native language, they get hung up on, "I have to say these exact words." Prag: Exactly. Mike: And you don't, you have to convey the meaning. What is the point of this slide? The script got you there, but in your own words, what is that slide? And that's often when the presentations, I can always tell when a presenter goes what we call off script, and generally the first time they rehearse it and they're off script, they go long because the need to over explain, it's in the back of your head and you're like, there's this little person inside that's like, "You didn't say enough. You got to keep talking. Say more words. They don't understand." Prag: Exactly. Mike: And the irony is, it's actually fewer words, but with more intention, because if you choose your words carefully, then you can really convey that meaning. So yeah, I mean, boy, and I've seen, you can also tell as an audience member, when somebody is up there and they're going through the script in their head and they're looking up and then they forgot something and they don't know what to do, and that's where rehearsal comes in. Just rehearsing for that. I always tell people, "You should rehearse in front of your family, your friends, and periodically have them unplug the computer or let something go wrong." Because it's like why sports and athletic people practice all the time, because the more you go through the motion of doing it, the more natural it is when something comes up. I've walked up on stage and had microphones fail, I've had screens go blank, and there's a moment where you're like, "Oh, I've practiced this. I'm just going to keep with the talk. I'm going to let the AV people do their thing, and if it comes back, great. And if it doesn't, then I just realized nobody can see what I saw and I'm going to have to describe it in my head." But if you're on script, you're like, "I don't know what to do because the script doesn't say that." Prag: Yep, exactly. No, I one hundred percent agree with that point, right? It's the pattern, and I think I've been told once that you should also explain in a way a ten-year-old should able to understand, so that you kind of avoid all the complex words and terminologies, to even explain a complex concept, but in a simple way. Mike: Yep, I agree with that. Prag: Yeah. Mike: Interesting, so I'm kind of curious, this is sort of Salesforce related, sort of not. But what role did AI play in getting you presentation ready? Did you lean on it to help create some scripts for you? Did you lean on it to help create some visuals for you? Prag: Oh, a combination of both, being very honest. I did use AI to generate specific graphics. I used to have to go rely on a graphic designer to do some graphics that gets aligned with Salesforce color factor, which changes every Dreamforce. So until last year, I was relying on another human who could able to do the magic and then get it plugged into my presentation, but this time it wasn't required, actually. I could able to give the prompt, give the exact font style I want, give the exact place of the image that I want, and it could able to get back to me with my expectation. Even though it does not meet exactly how it used to be done in the previous times, but this is pretty amazing, I took advantage of building images for sure. The other thing I used it for is subtitles. For each and every slide, I always try to avoid the tiny little subtitle under your title section on each and every slide, because I don't know what I could put there as an subtitle, and then I tried it with AI and it could able to process my content and say, "Oh, this is something you can put under your title." Which is very interesting way of seeing it. And I started almost for all my slides, I used AI with my own content that I put it on that slide and asked it, "Hey, how can I frame it under subtitle?" And it could able to give me some really interesting titles. Mike: Yeah. I got to say, for probably this year, for me, it's been so incredibly helpful to generate images that I needed to really drive home a point in a presentation without worrying about copyright or having to figure out where I was going to get an image because it could generate the image for me, and I saw that across other presentations as well, because that was always something you run into, is the use of images that were under copyright. Prag: Exactly. Oh, a hundred percent, I agree. I also remember, I want to remove a certain content from the image, and I asked AI to remove it. It did a decent job, but the job it does is all I needed, and that was an a-ha moment for me. Rather than just generating one, it also fixes the image in a much faster and a much efficient way. Mike: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Prag: The other thing, I know you ask about the presentation and you mentioned about presenting it to your friends and families, but you wouldn't believe that I presented to ChatGPT, actually. Mike: Tell me more. Prag: Yeah, so it's the voice conversation and I gave inputs that, "Hey, these are all the topics. These are all the content that I'm going to present on, and I want to do a trial run with you." And it was listening for the entire 20 minutes, and then the feedback it gave me was phenomenal. It was like, "Here you went faster. You have to slow down. Here, your content is repeating, try to address. Here you are using lot of ums. Here you are using a big pause. Here you are running because you notice that you're running out of time." This is amazing. So the active feedback layer that I received from the conversation I had with AI tuned me, trained me in a much faster way compared to doing it with a human. Mike: Yeah, I mean, that's really amazing because if you think about it, part of presenting in front of others is just to get used to being in front of people and talking, but rarely do you have the opportunity to present in front of a talented speaker coach, and you did that because ChatGPT has access to, I don't even know how much information, and it can be that talented speaker coach that normally speakers pay thousands of dollars to interact with, and you got to do that. It's really an interesting use case, I really like that. Prag: Oh, yeah. And the feedback it gives, it was unbelievable. So I did at least a couple of times. The first time, it was more soft acknowledgement, I got it. And then the second time before I even say, I said, "Hey, be rude. Try to be a coach. Don't give me polite responses. Be straight and help me understand because you are preparing me and not judging me." And then you won't believe the acknowledgement and the response I received was more straight, there is no polished way of saying, it says like, "Prag, this is where you made this mistake. This is how you need to fix it." It was more, I think I would say commandable in a good way, which I really liked it. Mike: That's interesting that you had to tell it to be a little more straight with you as opposed to probably understanding and empathetic. Prag: Exactly. It's not a human. So for me, why would I expect it from a mission, right? It's like, okay, I'm here. I want to use you for this particular reason, this is the use case for me to use you as an application. I don't expect you to be nicer to me. I want you to be the reason for why I'm using you for. Mike: Right? Yeah. I know, maybe this is a positive thing, but often I run across a lot of prompts and different settings for different AI because they're built to be so helpful, and you often have to kind of like, "No, dial it back. You can disagree with me." And I run into that where anything that you use, the AI is almost like, "Oh, well, that's a really great idea, Mike, and let's do that, and would you like me to do this?" And you're like, "But it's not always a great idea. You can tell me it's not a good idea." You can go to an AI and be like, "Hey, I've got some cinnamon. Would this taste good dusted on ravioli?" And I mean, I guess to our benefit, we've built AI systems that are like, "Absolutely, Mike, you are the Bobby Flay of the next world, but [inaudible 00:29:52]." You're like, "No, you can say it's going to be bad." But we almost have to tell it that. I guess it's somewhat commendable that we've done something that we have to say, "No, you can tell me I can be wrong." Prag: Exactly. And I am one of an example that I tried it and the responses are different. So if I am having any serious thought process that I have, and if I want to get an AI, not opinion, but how it would answer it or how it would handle the situation, before I ask them, I will say like, "Hey, make sure that you don't need to be kind or soft as part of your response and being very straight. I want more factual information." And the response you get is definitely different. Mike: Yeah. Wow. I love your tip on using AI and presenting to it and having you give you feedback, because I think that's incredibly useful. Well, this has been a fun conversation, Prag. I appreciate it. Prag: Thank you, Mike. It's always fun connecting with you, and I'm happy that we are talking about the future of how we are going to use tools that's going to help us becoming more and more efficient in what we are doing. That's my excitement. Mike: I know I often think back to what'll happen in 10 years if somebody's listening to this podcast and be like, "Oh, you remember that time that Prag and Mike were talking about presenting to AI, and they thought that was such the future, and now it's bloody [inaudible 00:31:51]." I think of that because I go back and listen to old episodes. I mean, there's over 12 years of the podcast episodes available. Prag: Wow, wow. Mike: And I go back and I remember talking about things like dynamic lightning components, like a page rendering dynamically, and now we're just like, "Well, yeah, obviously you would do that. Obviously you would do that." But back then it was like, "Oh my goodness, you can do that now, and you can make this setting." And then I remember putting together a demo and like, "Watch, we'll change this stage, and then this field will appear." And then everybody's quiet, and then the page refreshes and the record's there, and then the field shows up and you're like... I wonder if we're not going to sound like that in 10 years when we're talking about AI. Prag: But I wish we be like that in 10 years, right? That's where the technology advancement is going to take us. Mike: Yeah, hopefully we still have to keep telling it it can disagree with us because I kind of like that part. Prag: I agree. I agree. Mike: Well, thanks so much for being on the podcast. Prag: Oh, thank you so much for having me, Mike. It's always a pleasure. Mike: Big thanks to Prag for joining us and sharing so many insights from crafting compelling content, to using AI as a trusted prep partner. If you're thinking about submitting a talk or just want to sharpen your storytelling, this episode was packed with some wisdom. Now, do me a favor, share it with a fellow trailblazer who perhaps needs that nudge. Until next time, we'll see you in the cloud.

Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Daniel Peter, Chief Technology Officer at Petaluma Creamery. Join us as we chat about how he manages cheese wheels with custom objects and how Salesforce and AI can level the playing field for SMBs. You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Daniel Peter. Modernizing business processes at a historic creamery Daniel gave out some of the best swag at Dreamforce—free cheese samples. As a Salesforce MVP Hall of Fame member, he's held a wide range of roles on the platform, but none have been quite as delicious as his current gig as the Chief Technology Officer at Petaluma Creamery. You could say he's the big cheese for digital transformation. The creamery is a 115-year-old business capable of producing over 140,000 pounds of cheese per day. It's an old-school business, and that means he inherited several old-school business processes. With so many manual processes, Daniel had to move fast and focus on the biggest wins first. Digital transformation priorities for SMBs So how did Daniel take his business processes from aged Gouda to fresh mozzarella? He started with the basics: getting the cheddar through the door. In other words, simplifying the ordering process. Like a lot of SMBs, the creamery's system dated back to a time when you could just throw more people at a logistics problem. A sales or delivery person would talk through the order with the customer, fill out a paper form, and then do some unit conversions before they could enter the data into a database. It was time-intensive, labor-intensive, and introduced all kinds of opportunities for mistakes. Daniel quickly built an order system in Salesforce that saves time, does all of the conversions on the backend, and makes it easier for his users to find the product they're looking for. The creamery is also able to track all sorts of data about the cheese-making process, like where ingredients come from and how they were stored, which is crucial for getting a certified-organic label. Why Agentforce levels the playing field for SMBs A common misconception is that AI tools are reserved for huge corporations with the technical resources to implement them. However, as Daniel explains, affordable tools like Agentforce actually level the playing field for SMBs. Looking forward, he's aiming to implement several agents that will streamline the creamery's business processes: An internal agent to take orders, so a delivery driver can talk to a customer and dictate the order over the phone. A customer service agent that can use the context of a customer's order history to decide what remediation needs to be done and how to do it. A cheese expert agent, using the decades of unstructured data from the creamery's cheese lab to answer questions like optimal storage temperature, or what type of rennet was used to make a particular product. If all of this sounds exciting to you, be sure to check in with Daniel at TDX to see what he's built. And, you know, try some delicious dairy. Make sure to listen to the full episode for more from Daniel, and don't forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Salesforce Admins on the Trailhead Store Learn more Petaluma Creamery Admin Trailblazers Group Admin Trailblazers Community Group Social Daniel on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on X Mike on Bluesky social Mike on Threads Mike on X Full show transcript Mike: Hold onto your curds folks. Today's episode is un-brie-lievable. We're chatting with Daniel Peter, CTO at Petaluma Creamery, where they're proving that even in a world full of mozzarella sticks and spreadsheets, Salesforce can be the big cheese. Now today, Daniel's going to dish on how he's gone from QuickBooks and paper trails to a cheddar-rific automation and including some AI agents. So if you've ever wondered what it's like to manage wheels of cheese with custom objects, or if curd record type is a thing, then this is your jam. I mean, cheese, let's melt into it. Let's get Daniel on the podcast. So Daniel, welcome to the podcast. Daniel Peter: Hey, thanks for having me. Mike: I know it's been a while since we've had you on, it was Talking Community and Twitter back when it was called Twitter. Daniel Peter: Yeah, I did look up that podcast, it was 2017. Mike: Oh man, that was a thousand years ago. Daniel Peter: Yup. Mike: For those people that aren't familiar with who Daniel Peters is, can you give us a quick update and kind of let everyone know what you do and how you got started in the ecosystem? Daniel Peter: Yeah. I got started way back in 2009 as a developer, and I've done a lot of things. I've worked for Salesforce customers, ISV Partners, did a stint at Robots and Pencils where I ran a SI Salesforce practice, done a lot of consulting work on the development side for ISV, and actually even for Salesforce. But my most recent venture here, I'm back in the customer seat. So I'm the chief technology officer here at the Petaluma Creamery, and we're having a lot of fun relaunching this place on Salesforce. So that's what I'm up to now. And I'm also a Salesforce MVP Hall of Famer. Mike: Aha. There, snuck it in just by the way, buried the lead. Daniel Peter: Yeah, I got that in. Mike: I think we met when you were at the nonprofit. Daniel Peter: I don't remember which nonprofit that was. Mike: I thought it was the Pencils one anyway. Daniel Peter: Oh, Robots and Pencils, yeah. Mike: Yeah, Robots and Pencils. Sorry. I knew there was pencils and paper. Pens and papers and [inaudible 00:02:42]. Daniel Peter: Yeah. So Robots and Pencils is a Salesforce nonprofit partner, but only on the higher ed side, not on the NGO side. And I know that whole organization has changed with Education Cloud and all of that. So yeah, that threw me off for a second. But yeah, technically we were, yeah, we were a nonprofit partner on the education side. Mike: Okay. So I know my friends are always like, every time I see customers, I'm like, oh yeah, I think that's a Salesforce customer. So now you work at a creamery, and I ran into you at Dreamforce. You were handing out cheese, which as a Midwesterner, that's exactly how you get straight to my heart is like you either hand somebody from the Midwest, a piece of meat or a piece of cheese. Daniel Peter: Yeah, I think I'm the only one with cheese swag [inaudible 00:03:35]. Mike: Yeah, I think you are. Tell me a little bit about what being the CTO at a creamery is like, and what are some of the challenges? I mean, what do you manage the curds in Salesforce? What do you do? Is there a curd record type? Daniel Peter: You know what there basically is, I mean, it sounds funny, but all that stuff is really important to track for all these different compliance reasons. If you want to be organic certified, you have to show the milk coming in, that batch that you made out of it, butter, cheese, yogurt. You have to show the ingredients that went in. And all of that really, I was at Canandy and we built a manufacturing ERP for Del Monte, and so I knew Salesforce was up to the task of tracing all the ingredients and manufacturing of food. So yeah, we do store all of that in Salesforce. Mike: So how were they doing it before you started? Daniel Peter: It was pretty fragmented. The main system we had for our kind of the closest thing to ERP was QuickBooks Desktop. And they used QuickBooks Desktop for 20 years, and it was the big manufacturing edition. He actually was doing a lot of business here. There was years when he did close to 50 million a year and all that ran through QuickBooks, and it did have some inventory capabilities, but it's pretty terrible to use. And then there was just a lot of paper-based, like the order forms were on paper. They would take inventory on paper and then put it into an Excel spreadsheet. Mike: Did you have to do your compliance stuff on paper too? Daniel Peter: Yeah, there's rooms here full of paper files. I mean, so it's kind of an old school industry, and I think a lot of the people in it, they know cows, they know how to make cheese, but technology isn't something that comes naturally to them. They're much more comfortable writing things on paper. Mike: Well, even the technology of cheese has changed too. I mean, I know where I live in Iowa, we have a creamery that's about 20 miles south of us, and it's run by Amish, and that's always a big trip because you got to head down there to get some Amish cheese and bread. Oh, the bread is amazing. Let me know when you work for a bakery, by the way. But the technology of cheese, because they have the open windows, that's changed. But ironically, I think sometimes the technology that manages the processes, or in your case maybe just the data, just gets left to pencil and paper because it's what we know. Daniel Peter: Yeah. And an interesting story here is that the pencil and paper at one point was an economical way to do things. I mean, that actually created a lot of jobs for people here. This creamery has been here for over 115 years, and back then you would just throw more people at the problem. But that's kind of the changing paradigm that we're in is the city of Petaluma has grown up around this creamery. This is a Bay Area kind of city, and property prices are through the roof, labor costs are through the roof, utilities are through the roof. You can't really exist anymore in a world where you're just throwing people at the problem. It's way too expensive and your margins will disappear quickly. Mike: Well, I mean there's really, to be realistic, there's only so much you could sell that block of cheese for. And you can't pay 15 people to live in a high dense area with all of that cost just to move paper around. If a one pound block of cheese is going to end up costing $400 just to make everybody's living wage, right? Daniel Peter: Exactly. And that's why most of the creameries have moved out of California, out of state into the lower cost of living. Yeah, that block of cheese is for commodity cheese it's kind of a race to the bottom who can make it for the lowest cost. But we're actually a little bit more of a differentiated product. So our cheese isn't competing for lowest price. We're actually competing more on quality and kind of a best cost. It's a pretty good price, but also really good quality. Mike: Yeah. So what was some of the first things you tackled to move off of pen and paper and give a little more structured process around what you're doing and integrate Salesforce? Daniel Peter: Yeah. Well, the very first thing was to stabilize just the IT here, which was get off of T-One lines if anyone knows what those are and get on fiber optic, get rid of on-premise servers. There was an exchange server, an Outlook server, a QuickBooks server. Somebody could walk by and accidentally turn it off or it might just die, and then all your systems are down. So getting good internet and getting on the cloud, that was the very first thing. But the first interesting thing we did in Salesforce was actually I wanted to make it, we need to stay alive here. We need to make money. So I wanted to make it super easy to take orders, get the cash in the door, the order to cash process. Mike: Sure. Daniel Peter: So QuickBooks was so painful. To put an order in QuickBooks, you had to actually do math either in your head or on a calculator. You had to convert, like if somebody ordered a case of cheese, you had to know, oh, those are eight ounce pieces and there's 14 in a case, so that's seven pounds. Okay, so they say one case. So we have to convert that to seven pounds in your head to put it into QuickBooks. And then you also had to do things like memorize the whole cheese hierarchy. So like C:J for Jack, M for Monterey, 8 for eight ounce. That's how you punch it into QuickBooks. And yeah, you basically had to have a computer in your head just to enter an order into the computer, and it was super painful. So we couldn't get orders into the system quickly, and we can't just... We'd have to highly train people and it's highly error-prone to put orders in and people would call on the phone or you'd get a written order, and then you'd have to convert that in QuickBooks. So I said, what we need to do is just bury QuickBooks on the backend. Let's build a really nice, basically an order entry screen in Salesforce. So we built it exactly like we want it for our business in Salesforce. So if customers want to order by the pound, by the piece, by the case, Salesforce does all the conversions, ultimately converts it back into pounds in QuickBooks, what's integrated with QuickBooks. But it lets you enter it in a very human friendly way, very nice auto complete. I mean, you can basically just start to type one letter of Y for yellow cheddar, and yellow cheddar just pops up. The orders almost right themselves now, and it's very easy to train new people how to put orders in the system. So that was a huge- Mike: Oh, that's good. Daniel Peter: Yeah. That was a huge win. Mike: Did you also stand up an external facing way to take orders too, to speed that up, or is that on the roadmap? Daniel Peter: That's still on the roadmap. We do have, so 99% of our business comes from wholesale to stores. Mike: Oh, okay. Daniel Peter: We do have a small segment of direct-to-consumer, so you can go to springhillcheese.com and order online. Right now that's just a Squarespace e-commerce website, and that works well, but we want to do some fancier things. So we might look into some Salesforce offerings. There's obviously things like Commerce Cloud, but there's also some ISVs have built some apps on Salesforce to sell. So we'll look into some of those. Right now during this relaunch and focusing on staying alive here in the short term, really wholesale is what we're focusing on. But there's a big opportunity in direct-to-consumer. We ship cheese in a kind of an insulated cooler. Believe it or not, it actually ships really well throughout the US, and a lot of people do order. That's on the roadmap, actually. But the tricky thing is the stores might not necessarily... The stores, a lot of them are still old school and the buyers still kind of want to call you. So even if we did give them a way to enter their own orders, not everybody would adopt it. Mike: Yeah, they'd still call you. Daniel Peter: Yeah, there's still a human element there that we need to preserve. But obviously you can start to dream about how AI can listen in on your conversation and create the order for you as you're talking, things like that. Mike: Quiet, AI is listening right now, Daniel, it's taking my cheese order. And I mean, that completely makes sense. You want, for a business, you want to send truckloads of cheese, not shoe boxes of cheese. Because even a consumer, somebody like me thinks they're ordering a lot of cheese. Well, compared to a grocery store or a supermarket chain that's ordering for five stores to stock 10 coolers, focusing on wholesale totally makes sense. So keeping that human element there, you can always go to the consumer, but then you're shipping probably smaller chunks of items. So you really need the volume first. Daniel Peter: Yeah. If people want to order just like a piece of cheese, they end up paying more for the shipping than the cheese costs. But we do free shipping over $100. That seems to be a good sweet spot. If people want to order, then it's like say it costs $100 worth of cheese and we pay the $30 shipping, that kind of thing. So there is a market for the direct-to-consumer when you want to purchase a little bit bigger order, it kind of makes more sense. But yeah, this place can make 140,000 pounds of cheese a day, and that's one of its- Mike: Wow. Daniel Peter: ... images we need to leverage. So yeah, definitely moving by the palette or by the semi-truck load is how we can make money here. Mike: Okay. So you said something, and we talked at Dreamforce that I think a lot of small or medium-sized businesses are faced with, which is they all, "I'm too small for AI." Like AI is really for the big players like the Fortune 500 or the Fortune 100 companies need AI. But you're just a creamery, not just, I mean, you're a small creamery out in California, and before I pressed record, I mean you were at Dreamforce, you saw all the Agentforce stuff, you saw where AI is going. What are your plans for AI? Daniel Peter: Yeah, I think the story we hear a lot is about AI replacing jobs. There's a lot of fear I guess, in the job market, both on the developer side, admin, but also basically any kind of a white collar worker that might be doing any type of work is my job going to be replaced by AI? But I think there's all these small businesses that really have a chance to have a renaissance because of AI. So instead of losing jobs, it's more like AI can enable them to save themselves, to save an industry or to save a small-medium business. We've seen, unfortunately, a lot of... Fortunately, or unfortunately, I guess there's been a lot of disruption over decades. A lot of mom and pop stores can't afford to be around because of places like Amazon. It's kind of changed the world, but Amazon's a great service too. I mean, you can get anything you want in a couple of days, so you could say it's fortunate or unfortunate. But I think people like to have some of these old school industries around. It kind of makes life more interesting to be able to go visit a historic place instead of everything just coming from a centralized factory. Yeah, I think the story for these smaller industries is, hey, you can actually compete. AI levels the playing field a bit now. You can actually afford AI, and it's pretty easy to use with tools like Salesforce. So you can actually make your business reinvent your business model, to be efficient enough to be profitable, this new paradigm. So that's the story we have here, and that's why it's exciting to me here. And so I think, yeah, small business, you need a little bit of tech talent. You might have to find, like my cousin that owns this creamery came and found me to help them out with that. You might have to find somebody to help you, but it's really easier now than it's ever been. And I think people are pretty comfortable now doing things like writing customer service emails with ChatGPT that we've achieved a certain threshold where the fear is kind of going away and the trust is starting to come into play. And so it's just a matter of, okay, well, how can I implement this now at scale for my business, to where I'm focusing on the things I'm really good at? Like my vision for the business and interacting with the customers that come in the door while AI is doing all the grunt work in the background for you, and at a pretty low cost. Mike: So you envision at your creamery using AI as kind of a scalable factor? Like you can scale one person, as opposed to how our conversation began, which is you would just throw people at it. AI kind of gives you that ability to throw people at it, except you're just throwing an agent at it, right? Daniel Peter: Yeah. It's sort of what the cloud did for computing when we needed elasticity. When you got a Black Friday and you got a million requests all at once and your server went down, and the cloud, kind of solve that. I think AI solves the people elasticity problem. Certain times you have a lot of orders coming in, and do you really want to have 10 people on staff all the time when they're mostly sitting around? But then once in a while, all 10 phones are ringing. AI can solve that pretty easily. Mike: So you saw a lot at Dreamforce. I mean, we've rolled out so many things, it's hard to remember everything, but I mean, even my team is sitting back trying to build examples for agents and prompting. As a small business. And I think it's fair to say that where are you looking at deploying, or hey, this could be a good use case for Agentforce, or really thinking about how we can scale there. Daniel Peter: Yeah, we've got a few great ones. I think they're all similar level of importance. So this will be in no particular order, but one of them is an agent to take orders. It's very smart. So it would be something we'd use internally. Maybe even a delivery driver in the field might dictate it from their phone, or we could use it right in the office, but instead of having to type things into the order entry screen, we can just talk to it, talk to the agent. Ideally even with our voice and just say, "Hey, for Safeway, number 572 in San Francisco, they called in, they want to duplicate their order, but they want to add in an extra case of this." And it has all that context already of what they ordered before. So you don't have to go look it up and try to clone it and add to it, and it can just crank out that order. And it can say, is this what you meant? And you can say, yeah, so there's that one we want to build. There's also one that's more customer focused, and that would be, we get a lot of calls, emails for random customer service requests that are... They're along the lines of refunds, credits, changes, questions, things like this. And again, we have all that context. We had QuickBooks for 20 years, so we have 20 years of their order history imported into Salesforce. Mike: Wow. Wow. That's huge. Daniel Peter: Yeah. So we don't have a data problem. Actually we have plenty of good data here, but these things eat up a lot of time. So people call in and they'll send a very vague request. They'll say something like, we need three replacement pieces of yellow cheddar. And so we make so many different types of yellow cheddar. And then once you figure out what they need, how do you handle that? Do you add them to their next order? Do you create a credit memo? These kinds of things. So you can imagine an agent knows everything about the customer's history. It fills in the blanks on these vague requests, and it does the action. Whether it's adding something onto the order, issuing a credit, that kind of thing. And if it needs to, let's say emails the channel that could clarify through an email. Maybe if it's a vague request and we have context, but the responses are still ambiguous, there may be one thing we need to clarify. It can do that agentic loop and iterate until the customer's happy with the outcome. So that's another one. And then the final one that I was thinking would be really fun to deploy, it's kind of a... I haven't thought of a name for it yet, but basically be kind of a cheese agent that really knows everything about all of our products. So we've got all the order history, but what we also have is a super rich library of unstructured data here. So there was a world-class lab here on site for 20 years. It's one of the three blocks that this place is on, and it had all kinds of testing equipment. And they cranked out so many analysis, studies of all the products. So anything, any random long tail questions somebody might want to ask about dairy products, cheese, butter, powdered products, any of that, we have the answer to sitting in these unstructured documents. Anything from PowerPoint presentations to Excel to PDFs, and I can just imagine putting that into data cloud and being able to produce a really good answer. So I think probably a way better answer than a customer service rep is ever going to be able to come up with, because how are they going to be able to do all that research? Mike: Yeah. It'd be just based on their knowledge. And then it's a lottery based on whoever's working that day. Daniel Peter: Yeah. So if people want to know salt content and this or that, or do you use this type of rennet that had this particular genetically modified organism or not? Or how many days out of the year are your cows eating grass? Or how long is this product good in our refrigerator at 38 degrees? We can answer just infinite number of these long tail questions. So I think that one would be not just an efficiency gainer, but actually would increase our customer satisfaction by giving them not only the information they want, but these generative AI responses have a very nice friendly tone to them also. So you'd get a great answer and it would also make you feel good, because it's so nice to you. And so I think that would be huge for customer satisfaction. Mike: Yeah, I mean, I was even thinking the consumer route, once you go that way is a lot of people, when you go to the butcher, it's the same way too. You have a general idea of what you could do with this, but especially with cheeses, the right or wrong cheese can make or break a dish. And even combinations of cheese. I like watching the Food Network, and they'll make a macaroni and cheese, and it won't just be one cheese, it'll be five. And it's funny because my mom will be like, "How do they know those five tastes good together?" I'm like, "Well, mom, they're trained chefs." They're not like you and me where it's trial and error. Let's add this in, and it totally makes it a mess. But you could even be that same way too. Oh, if you're ordering these three cheeses, you could order these other two. And they pair really well, all five of them together. And then they're ordering more cheese. Daniel Peter: Yeah, totally. And yeah, I've experienced that. So we have this four-way shred blend we do for the Kings, Sacramento Kings Stadium. Mike: Oh, wow. Daniel Peter: And I don't know what it is about that mix, but those four cheeses together, they synergize. And I go out and sample it when they're making it, and it's way better than... You could have one, two, or three of the cheeses. But when you put all four together, it's like something magic happens with the combination- Mike: [inaudible 00:26:26], yeah. Daniel Peter: ... cheese and some spicy cheese, and maybe there's some mozzarella in there or something. But the way they... Yeah. So there's definitely something to getting that magic mix right. And I think that, yeah, that's something really fun, that'd be a fun AI problem to solve. Mike: That would also, you think about that. It would help educate your consumer, but it also helps sell more cheese. The good salesperson doesn't just sell what the customer wants. It also sells what the customer doesn't know they want. Daniel Peter: Yeah. Mike: Right? Like I know I'm going to come to you and just buy some cheddar or some Parmesan, but I'm buying these two. Did you know if you mix this with it, or here's five other recipes you could use it for. So it's always kind of... And again, these are all things a small little creamery is here's how we can add scalable people on with agents that more than offset the cost of it. And you're not a thousand person company or a 10,000 person company that's doing it, right? But you can act like you have a thousand people. Daniel Peter: Yeah. So a lot of the stuff you're mentioning is things that really good salespeople are good at, and really good salespeople are hard to find. And we have some here, but yeah, they don't scale. So yeah, that upsell opportunity, I mean people... That actually it's a win-win. We make more money and they actually walk away feeling like they had a way better experience. They got to try this new thing they wouldn't have tried otherwise, something like that. So yeah, that's pretty exciting when you can have AI fill in for that lack of top sales talent like that. Mike: So I guess we'll end on a fun note. What is something that you saw at Dreamforce that you can't wait to get your hands on? Daniel Peter: Oh boy. Well, I know this is the admin podcast, but- Mike: That's okay. You can talk about any of our products. Daniel Peter: I'm pretty excited about the vibe coding. Basically, I've been a big fan of generative AI just as an easy button for everything and seeing how good it can write your code for you now. I was a little skeptical at first just because I've been a developer for so long, but when I saw it in action, I realized that's going to be the next game changer for developers. So I actually, I haven't been using it much, and I want to start using it now, and it'll actually help to build some of these agents that I'm talking about more quickly. So that's huge. I mean, I'm wondering, we've seen generative AI disrupt so many different tools that we use. It's what people use now for, we saw the students using it to write their term papers for them, and it's just gone the gamut of things. But now actually it's smart enough to be able to write code in quality, and it's a really high-level skill that's going to be a huge time saver for developers. Mike: Yeah, I think, not to belabor the point, and I certainly have never written code, there's always, oh, it's going to take our jobs. Well, technology's evolved since forever, but it's always taken the mundane parts of our job. And that's how I see a lot of... Like I sat in the developer keynote and watched it. To me coding, I think they demoed building a menu, I don't know, Daniel, you tell me. If you had to sit down and code something, I have to believe that coding the menu, the mundane part wasn't the part you were most excited to work on. Daniel Peter: No. Mike: But if AI can do it and then it can be like, okay, so here's the 10% I can't do, that's probably the 10% you really wanted to work on anyway. Daniel Peter: It's so true. And that's actually been what Salesforce has been good at since the very beginning. You go back to when you would create a custom field, you wouldn't have to go put it in the database and put it in each TML page. It just showed up everywhere automatically. And that's all you wanted was a custom field. You didn't want to have to write all the tedious code to wire it from the bottom to the top of the stack. So yeah, it's just the next logical evolution of Salesforce making it to where you just get to do what you want to do and it handles the mundane things. Mike: Yeah. Daniel Peter: Yeah. Salesforce was an early adopter to that lower code way of doing things. And it's exciting that now it's come all the way to actually pro code can be written with your voice. Mike: I mean, there's always a need for both. I think you're kind of a car guy. I saw a stat that like 94% of the automobiles produced are automatic transmissions now. Well, that's still 6% that aren't, and is that good or bad? Well, I mean, some people that really like three pedals, oh, that's horrible, why are they making all these automatic cars? They're taking the fun away and this. Yeah, I mean, to be fair, you drive a 50-year-old manual clutch car, it's a lot different than when you get in your car. And I mean, some of them don't even have a gear shift now, some of them, you just press a button to start and press a button to put it in gear. But then also the experience of driving. You can focus on the things that really help you prevent getting in a car crash, as opposed to just making the car go the road. And as a car guy, it's two very different things. One's not better than the other, it's just less weight on your mind. Daniel Peter: Yeah. Yeah, that's a cool analogy. I like that. Mike: So I mean, they'll probably always still make manual transmission cars. If not, I'll just keep mine going. And that doesn't make them any less, it just means that there's less tediousness for you to do to make the car go down the road so you can focus on some of the other things. Perspective, right? Daniel Peter: Yeah, no, I like that perspective on it. It makes a lot of sense. So yeah, don't fear the loss of having to figure out how to use your clutch and your gear shift, just embrace it. Mike: I mean, I still think everybody should learn how to drive a manual transmission car. It does make you a better driver. I guess the opposite of that is I imagine learning how to code would make you a better admin too. So the reverse of everything has to hold true. Daniel Peter: Yeah. I know it gets into a pretty deep discussion about maybe how long until code totally goes away, at least from our perspectives, creating business software on Salesforce. I think I could see that even happening. And then it's like, well, you don't even have to drive the automatic, it's more like the Waymo or something. Mike: Even then somebody has to write the software that makes it so that you don't have to write code. Daniel Peter: Yeah, there'll always be at some level. Yeah, I think there'll always have to be. It just keeps moving further away from the people that are familiar with the business and more down to that platform level. Mike: Yeah. I guess I look at it much in the same of an engineering. The people that engineer and make automatic transmissions, I mean, they make automatic transmissions that can hold thousands of horsepower. And these engineers are incredibly intelligent. That doesn't mean that the mechanic is any less of an engineer. It just means that the engineering skill moved in a different part of the business. Much like the coding skill or the non-coding skill. Daniel Peter: Yeah. And I think that's good. I mean, I think people are scared of it, but I think businesses should be in business to focus more on how they can basically make their customers happier. Not so much in having to do all the tedious behind the scenes things to make it happen. Mike: Right. Well, Daniel, we've covered a lot today. Cheese, manual transmissions, business process, AI. I think if I had a wheel, we would've spun it and hit every corner of the wheel. Daniel Peter: Yeah. Well, I'm excited to keep building out these agents we're talking about. And I'll keep everybody in the ecosystem updated through different means. I've been doing some different articles and things like that, posting on LinkedIn, and so excited to get more and more of these cheese agents rolled out, and get us scaled up without having to eat up all of our margins and then some. Mike: Oh, look at you. Eat up all of your margins. I see where you're going with that. Good job. Well, Daniel, I look forward to, we got TDX coming up in April of next year. Hopefully we can see one of your cheese agents at TDX. Daniel Peter: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I kind of wish that I had more to show off a Dreamforce this year, but I've been wearing a lot of hats here as CTO of a creamery, so we need to get this stuff rolled out like yesterday. Mike: Yeah. Well, I mean, the cheese has got to make the money before you can buy more software. So I think you got your priorities straight. Daniel Peter: Yeah. Mike: Yeah. And you make good cheese too. Daniel Peter: Oh, thank you. Yeah, I love it. It's a little dangerous working here. Mike: I could only imagine. Daniel Peter: All the cheese you can eat. Mike: Can only imagine. Well, Daniel, thanks so much for coming on the podcast, and I look forward to seeing your cheese agents in the future. Daniel Peter: Thanks for having me, Mike. This was a lot of fun. Mike: Well, that was cheddar than expected. So big thanks to Daniel Peter for cracking open the cheese vault and sharing how Salesforce is helping Petaluma Creamery brie-come more efficient, more scalable, and still delicious. Yes. Remember, digital transformation, including Agentforce, isn't just for the big cheeses, even small creameries can scale with AI and Salesforce. No provolone required. So spread the word, and until next time, we'll see you in the cloud.

Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Laura Pelkey, Director of Customer Security Communications & Engagement, and Kylie McKlveen, Director of Product Marketing at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about a simple framework for thinking about security in Salesforce and what you can do to protect your org. You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Laura Pelkey and Kylie McKlveen. The evolving security landscape in the age of AI With Agentforce and the rise of AI, protecting your data is more important than ever before. Remember, the bad guys have access to these tools too, and that means phishing and deep fake attacks are becoming more sophisticated by the day. That's why I wanted to bring Laura and Kylie on the pod to talk about security. They're here to help explain how Salesforce is already hard at work to help you protect your data, and what simple steps you can take to beef up security for your org. A simple Salesforce security framework Laura and Kylie have a simple framework for the security available to you on Salesforce. There are three layers to think about: Invisibles: The things that Salesforce already does to watch your back. This includes a global, 24/7 threat hunting team that is constantly scanning the network for anomalous events. Configurables: These are actions you as a Salesforce Admin can take to make your org more secure. Taking the time to configure your security settings and think through your permission sets can go a long way towards protecting your org. Enhanceables: If you work in a heavily regulated industry or have sensitive data, you may need to take extra steps to enhance your security. Tools like Salesforce Shield and Security Center can give you an extra layer of protection. Most admins will want to focus on the configurables, and the security team has put together a handy video series to walk you through your next steps. The importance of data continuity One important piece of the security puzzle is continuity. Protecting against attacks is important, but you also need to account for human error—sometimes users make mistakes. If someone's delete key gets stuck, tools like Backup & Restore and Field Audit Trail can help you save the day. If you want to learn more, be sure to check out the Dreamforce Security Keynote on Salesforce+. And don't forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you never miss an episode. Podcast swag Salesforce Admins on the Trailhead Store Learn more Security Keynote: Protecting the Agentic Enterprise The 360 Blog: Laura on security YouTube series: Trusted Enterprise Security: Built on Salesforce Meet the Long-Lost Fourth Member of Snap, Crackle and Pop Admin Trailblazers Group Admin Trailblazers Community Group Social Laura on LinkedIn Kylie on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on X Mike on Bluesky social Mike on Threads Mike on X Full show transcript Mike: This week on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we're diving into some security framework that you've either seen online or at Dreamforce, specifically wrapping your head around invisibles, configurables, and enhanceables. So this week I am joined by longtime podcaster and security champion Laura Pelkey and new voice and new to the Salesforce Trusted Services Team, Kylie McKlveen. They are both here to help us unpack how we can think about the security layers baked into the platform, the settings they control, and the tools available for us to go even further. Plus we also jump into a little bit about what AI means for keeping your org secure. This is a fun podcast, and we also bring in a little bit of pop culture. I won't ruin it, but Sylvester Stallone does make an appearance in this episode. So with that, let's get Laura and Kylie on the podcast. So Kylie and Laura, welcome to the podcast. Laura Pelkey: Hey, Mike. Kylie McKlveen: Hey, thanks for having us. Mike: I know. This is going to be fun, even though... Well Laura's a long time podcaster, so she makes security fun, but Kylie's a new voice. So Laura, let's start with you. Refresh everybody, what you've been up to at Salesforce since we've last chatted. Laura Pelkey: Yeah, I know it's been a little while. I'm very happy to be back on the pod. Thank you for having me. So I'm actually coming up on my nine-year anniversary at Salesforce, which is crazy. Can't believe it's been that long. And lately I've been at Dreamforce speaking, writing a lot of blogs about security, and still just trying to get the word out there to our customers about how to be secure with their Salesforce data. Mike: Yep, absolutely. And Kylie, you're a new voice to the podcast, so welcome. Tell us a little bit about how you got started at Salesforce and what you do. Kylie McKlveen: Thanks, yeah, what do they say, long time listener, first time caller? So yeah, I work on our product marketing team for our trusted services products. I've actually just joined this team within the last year when Salesforce acquired Own or formerly Own Backups. So loving my new role and really excited to work with Laura and yourself working with customers on helping them with their security. Mike: Now, trusted services sounds big and massive and like a lot of stuff. What are some of the products that maybe Salesforce admins are familiar with that fall under that umbrella? Kylie McKlveen: Yeah, that's a great question. So Shield, Salesforce Shield, which consists of event monitoring, data detect, platform encryption, and field audit trail. It's also security center. And then with the acquisition of Own, we also added backup and recover, archive, data mask and seed, so that was enhanced with seeding capabilities. We also have privacy center. So those are some of the products admins would be familiar with. Mike: Yeah, no, I think we saw a few of those in the admin keynote. So Laura, you're still on the mission and I'm with you on security-minded admins. Laura Pelkey: Yes. Mike: Let's talk about what being a security-minded admin is to get us in that security mode. Laura Pelkey: Yeah. You know Mike, I was actually just thinking about this. I think we did a podcast with that name, and I think two months after I started at Salesforce, we did a podcast together, which is- Mike: I mean, we don't mess around. Lynn was like, "We're doing a podcast right away." Laura Pelkey: Yeah, yeah, the security-minded admins, love that topic. So a security-minded admin is just someone who understands that securing their data in Salesforce and their organization's data in Salesforce is an admin's responsibility. Admins have many responsibilities. There's really not enough time in the day to do all of the stuff that an admin needs to do. But security is one of the most important ones. And it's often one of the most overlooked ones. So yeah, really, really passionate about that topic, and I feel my role is to help admins focus on the top things that they can do. Because there's a lot of stuff that can be kind of confusing, but really if you're doing a handful of things, best practices, using the right controls, you're doing most of what you can to protect your organization. Mike: Yeah. Now I know Laura, at Dreamforce, you gave a presentation that took that security-minded admin up a notch because, I mean, pre-AI, we were just talking about making sure people didn't put sticky notes on monitors and strong passwords. Oh, we got MFA. Remember, MFA was like... That was going to save the world. And now we have AI, which I saw your presentation in Dreamforce. What is security like now in the world of AI? Laura Pelkey: And first of all, MFA is still very important, so definitely still do that. Mike: Right, absolutely. It still saves the world, it just there's more to it. Laura Pelkey: Still saves the world. There's just more more things now. Yeah, we're seeing a huge rise in adoption of AI. I mean, look at how many people listening to this call use LLMs like ChatGPT on a regular basis. I mean, I know I do. Of course, Agentforce, we all love Agentforce. There's a lot of amazing AI technology out there now. But unfortunately what we're seeing is the attackers or hackers, bad guys, whatever you want to call them, are also leveraging this technology, and they're doing so in ways that make it harder to spot when malware is happening. They might be creating a deepfake, that's kind of advanced, but it's actually... It's pretty easy to do nowadays, in order to get your user credentials and to take over your user account. It could even just be maybe a really well phrased phishing text message. I think we all probably get those too nowadays, it's super common. And before it would be kind of easy to spot them. There might be some spelling errors or just language related errors that would be easy to guess that maybe this isn't really from somebody that I know, but nowadays with AI, it's actually... The AI can craft these messages that sound much more realistic and believable. So that's had an effect on how successful bad actors are when they're trying to take over a user account or get user credentials or get sensitive information and data. Mike: I mean, the good news is a lot of people have access to AI, and unfortunately sometimes the people you want access to shouldn't. It also burst my bubble, so it means you're telling me that Bob Ross video of him wrestling Mr. Rogers wasn't real that I just watched the other day? Laura Pelkey: Yeah, yeah, probably not. Mike: Because it was awesome. Laura Pelkey: Probably not. Just logistically, I think that would be pretty difficult. But we are seeing... If anyone watched the security keynote, we shared a really interesting video, it's on Salesforce+ now, of one of our executives, we said, "Hey, can we have a professional ethical hacker demonstrate how easy it is to hack somebody at your level? Can we do this live?" And he was like, "Yeah." So there's actually a really cool video of that in the security keynote. Mike: Ooh, I'll put a link to that in the show notes so you can watch that. Laura Pelkey: Oh, thank you, we would love that. Kylie and I would really appreciate that. Mike: Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, and speaking of videos, Kylie, I think you worked with Laura. You put out a whole series of videos around security, talking about invisibles, configurables, and what was the third one? It's always the third. It's like Snap, Crackle... Who's that third one? Pop. Laura Pelkey: The third child, I forget as well. Mike: I heard there was actually four at one time. You should Google that. The Snap, Crackle, Pop, there was four. Totally not on topic of talking security, but you know... So Kylie, let's talk about that. I mean, it's an interesting concept to think about. There's invisible things that Salesforce does, there's configurable things, and then there's things that I guess we can put frosting on, right? Kylie McKlveen: Yeah, the pop. I think this framework is just a really easy way to understand the security that's available to you. The invisibles are the things that we do, that Salesforce does kind of invisible to you, hence the name. The configurables things customers can do to make their org more secure, but it's up to them to configure them. And then the enhanceables, so things they can go above and beyond what's provided to them to really enhance their security. So the names are a bit obvious by design. Mike: So tell me a little bit about some of the invisible stuff that goes on behind the scenes that helps admins sleep at night. Kylie McKlveen: Yeah, I hope admins are familiar with things like network level security, our secure infrastructure, application level security, things like that. Those are really table stakes for SaaS platforms. But there's a lot of really cool things that our cybersecurity operations center does proactively protecting our customers. And I'm actually going to throw it over to Laura to give some of those examples. I know we've had multiple conversations about some of the examples of the things they do and it's really cool. Laura Pelkey: Yeah, so our team, our cybersecurity operations center team, they are incredible. Actually, when I started working in cybersecurity, which I've always worked in cybersecurity, my very first job, which I won't say how many years ago that was anymore- Mike: Well two, because you're 27, right? Laura Pelkey: Exactly, exactly, correct. But when I first started working in security, I was learning about all of the really cool things that my company at the time, we had a social engineering team, and the things that other companies would hire us to do, and they would literally go into companies and attempt to hack them by physically gaining access to a structure, their networks in their building. And this was part of something that our clients would pay for. It was so cool to me. And basically it would just reveal where the holes were in their security so that the client could then fix those. So things like that, that's called social engineering. So at Salesforce we do things like that, we're constantly hunting for vulnerabilities in the platform, in our networks, we call that threat hunting. We have a global team that is working 24 7, literally just scanning all the networks for anomalies we call them, anomalous events. Does something look weird in one of our networks? Does something look weird in one of our customer's networks? And then we have a massive team of people who, as soon as they spot something, they jump on it. And if it's a customer issue, they'll contact the customer right away and actually work with them to resolve it. I don't know, it reminded me when I was first learning about this many years ago, it just was very cool work and it's always behind the scenes and you don't know that it's going on, but it actually does so much to shore up the security of your organization. So we do stuff like that. Mike: No, that sounds really cool. When you were mentioning that, I was thinking of... I think it's like an early 2000s B-level Sylvester Stallone movie where he's like a guy that gets paid to break out a prisons to find their vulnerability. Laura Pelkey: Yes, it's exactly like that, yes. Mike: That's what I was thinking of. So that's how I envision your whole team is. Laura Pelkey: I would actually love to do that kind of work. No one has asked me to, but if anyone at Salesforce is listening, I'm open to doing that, that sounds fun. Mike: Okay, all right, look at that. Laura, while we have you, can we... I mean the invisible stuff's really cool, but it's behind the scenes. Admins love to get their hands on stuff. Let's talk about what we can configure. Laura Pelkey: So as Kylie was saying, the second piece or second pillar of this are the configurables. And the configurables are... The easiest way to think of it is the things that are within the customer's control. So this is security settings, controls, and features that actually need to be set up properly by the customer. And Salesforce is a very robust platform, and we do provide a level of flexibility to make sure that our customer's needs are being met, but it's also part of our shared responsibility model where when a customer has control over these things, that they really spend the time to properly configure them to best protect their data. A couple of examples. The principle of least privilege. It's not a setting, but it's a principle that in cyber security is the defining principle for when you're talking about user permissions. So admins set up users all the time. Every day, maybe. So when an admin is setting up a user, it's really important that they're paying attention to the permission sets and the level of permissions that they're granting to this user. So we still say layering permission sets and permission set groups on top of profiles is the best practice, and when you are setting up a user, make sure that the permissions you're granting them are only what's necessary for them to do their job. So that's that that least privilege part. And by limiting them to only what's necessary, it actually helps limit the exposure if in... Hopefully this doesn't happen, but in the chance that a user account is compromised. And especially when we're looking at people who have admin level permissions, and what are those, Mike? Modify all data, view all data. Mike: Everything's scary. Laura Pelkey: Yes. So those are incredibly powerful permissions, and admins know they can do everything in their Salesforce org. But would you give, for example, okay, say like a Salesforce admin is the owner of a house. Let's just create that metaphor. Would you give all of your keys to your mail carrier? Why would they need access to the inside of your house? Maybe they need access to the gate for the pathway that walks to your front door, so you leave that unlocked for them, but they don't need to get inside your house. It's kind of like the same thing when you're setting up users. You don't want all of your users to be able to do every single thing in your Salesforce org. And again, it's because users make mistakes so they could accidentally and unintentionally do something that could cause a security issue. That happens all the time, or in the off chance that a user is compromised, you don't want the bad actor that has compromised and taken over that user account to be able to do all the things that an admin does. So yes, very long spiel about principle of least privilege and why it's important, but basically the configurable part of this is setting up users and making sure that they only have the level of permissions that they need. Mike: And to run with your metaphor, Laura, I think even the delivery companies now, I have a code from my garage door and you can drop a package off in my garage door. So in theory, you're only getting into my garage unless I forget to lock the door to my house from my garage. Now you have access to the whole house. And that plays into the same... They should only have access to the things they should have access to. Laura Pelkey: Yeah, exactly. Mike: Laura, I think this falls into maybe a product that you oversee, which is Security Center. Laura Pelkey: I don't oversee it, I wish I did. Mike: Or Kylie, sorry. Laura Pelkey: It's an amazing... Yes, Kylie's team does that. And you can actually, with Security Center, see the number of people exactly who in your organization has admin-level permissions? Kylie, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in Security Center you can actually change those permissions within Security Center itself or apply policies across all of your orgs within Security Center to limit that, is that correct? Kylie McKlveen: That's correct. Absolutely, you can apply policies. And I think especially for admins who have multiple orgs that they're managing, being able to view their security posture across and then have a sense of consistency and control, Security Center is a great product for that. Laura Pelkey: Yeah, we love that product. Mike: Yeah, and we saw a lot of this in the admin keynote where Kate and Lisa did a demo of Lisa just needing additional permissions to edit a field, not the entire object. And I think what was nice is we saw Agentforce double-checking with the admin to say, "I've set this up, but is this correct?" Which is a huge step, the human in the loop for a lot of security and AI things that we work on. Laura Pelkey: Yes, it's so important that you're working with... And now that Security Center is enhanced with Agentforce, it's like admins have kind of a partner, but still the admin's responsibility to validate everything and to oversee everything. But it's now easier to do that, which is great. Mike: Great. Especially when it goes GA. I think admins will be excited for the new setup. Kylie, Laura set you up perfectly. She mentioned enhanceables. Let's talk about some of those security enhanceables that admins can get their hands on or help set up that take security even farther. Kylie McKlveen: As we talked about earlier, we have Shield and Security Center. These are the products that fall within the trusted services portfolio. Is that what you were asking, Mike? Mike: Yeah, just I would love to learn more about what we consider enhanceables. Kylie McKlveen: Yeah, so these are the products that go above and beyond to help you enhance your security. And when we talk about enhancing our security, there's really many reasons why customers are choosing to enhance their security. A couple of years ago, when we were talking to customers, it was really those in regulated industries that had specific requirements that they needed to meet in platform encryption or things like that. But now there's a variety of reasons, so some of these customers who are in high threat industries and need an additional layer of protection. Or scale, we talk about scale a lot. So whether you're resource constraint because you're an admin of one, but you need the security power, or if your company is growing and you need something to help you scale with that. These products can really help with that. And then another thing I'll mention is if you have a lot of sensitive data in your org, I think there's a lot of important data in Salesforce that customers need to protect in different ways, but sensitive data, if you really need to add additional layers or prevent people from seeing certain data, we have products within this portfolio to help with those specific scenarios. Mike: I think one thing that's interesting to me in the discussions I've had with Laura and Lynn over the few years that we've worked together is security isn't only just keeping the bad actors out, it's also making sure the right people have the right access at the right time. I would love to know, because in my mind, backing up data, and you came from own backup, how is backing up data really part of a security posture? Kylie McKlveen: This is really about continuity. So being able to ensure that if you were talking about bad actors or malicious intent, but there's human error. If one of your users accidentally made a mistake and corrupted the data or deleted the data, being able to have a backup that you can quickly and easily restore that data in your environment is really important. That data is there and needs to be restored. So you need a tool to help you quickly respond to that. And that's how backup is part of that. Mike: Yeah, no, I never really thought of that. It's one thing to have the data, make sure the right people have the right access to it, but it's also having the history of the data and making sure... I guess it would be a paper trail of what's happened to it and when it's happened. Kylie McKlveen: We do have products. Field Audit Trail is great for understanding how your data has changed over time. But there are some cool things about backup where you can look back into the past and see how the data has changed. You can actually look up in backup to look at the signals to see if the data might've been corrupted. So it's a really cool product. Mike: Now, the idea of invisibles, configurables and enhanceables isn't something we just thought up one day. It's actually a series of videos that I believe are out on YouTube, if I'm not correct... And this is for you, Kylie or Laura, whoever was the most involved, what are some of the things that we're going to see in those videos, because I'll definitely link to those videos in the show notes. Laura Pelkey: I could take that one. So this is something actually our Chief Trust Officer came up with. He's so smart, his brain is just constantly working. He just explained it one day, "Invisibles, configurables, and enhanceables," and we were like, "That is brilliant." And really what these videos are talking about, and they're also available on security.salesforce.com as well as YouTube, but basically he and our SMEs who are on the video series as well go into these layers. So invisibles is the bottom layer, and you can think of it's the strong foundation. Salesforce handles this for you. We're always working to keep our networks and our products secure and our infrastructure secure, and customers don't need to do anything to take advantage of this. I mean Hyperforce is an example of how we are creating secure infrastructure for our customers. So we talk about the invisibles. And then we talk about the configurables. Rachel Beard, who is featured in this video series, she's amazing, she's one of our security architects at Salesforce, she talks about specific things that customers can do, and these are like... If you watch these videos and just do everything she says, that's going to be hugely impactful to the security of your Salesforce org. One of the things she goes over is login IP ranges, which is when a Salesforce admin restricts the login IP ranges so that only people within the company's network can actually access your Salesforce org. And that's really one of the best things. So things like that. She talks about principle of least privilege as well. And then there's the enhanceables where, as Kylie said, we have a suite of amazing security and privacy products that are really designed to help our customers grow and scale. Like Kylie mentioned, a lot of admins might be struggling to keep up with their growth at their company, and these products can help you do that. And then there's actually a really cool... The last video in this series is our Chief Trust Officer speaking with a CEO and a CISO from one of our friend companies. And you just get the... From folks at that level, from these executives who think about cybersecurity all the time. You get to hear their perspective on what's next in the cybersecurity industry. So it's a really awesome video series. I would definitely encourage people to watch it. Mike: Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, as we wrap up, Kylie, we're fresh off of Dreamforce. What was some of the exciting things that you're getting ready to work on heading into the coming year? Kylie McKlveen: Yeah, we had two really big announcements, multiple big announcements in the security keynote, but two that I just want to call out I'm so excited about. We talked at the beginning of this podcast about how AI is changing everything, but now we're seeing AI in our security and compliance products, which is really cool. So AI is actually helping you be more secure. So we have Agentforce in Security Center, which can detect threats, and you can conversationally investigate the threats and remediate them. It will give you suggestions on how to quickly resolve those issues. And then we have Agentforce in Privacy Center too. So automating some of that hard work around complying with these constantly evolving regulations. You can tell it what's applicable to your business and it will give you suggestions around some risks you may have, some gaps, and it can suggest policies that you may want to deploy in your org. So really just making security and compliance a lot more accessible and a lot more easier, faster. It's just really cool how AI is actually helping us with security in this scenario. Mike: And with a lot of those centers, I mean, there's a lot of data and to have AI comprehensively look at all of that, it might find things that you just didn't know to look for. Kylie McKlveen: Oh, definitely. I think that's the struggle. Sometimes you're looking at this data and you don't even know what you're looking for, and AI can really just take the pain out of that. It can look across multiple data points and tell you what's out of the ordinary. So saving a ton of time. Mike: Laura, similar question. We're fresh off Dreamforce. As you help admins in the coming year become more secure, more AI proficient, what would your advice be for admins for the upcoming year? Laura Pelkey: Well, definitely the couple things that I mentioned when we're looking at configuring, I think just broadly, look at your security configuration in your Salesforce org. That's the broad thing I want all admins doing right now. And then within that the things that I think are the most important for admins to be focusing on are that setting up login IP ranges, that's super important. Following the principle of least privilege when setting up users. And that also means doing an audit of the permissions that your users already have, that's super important, and taking away unnecessary permissions. Admins should also be talking to their Salesforce users about things like phishing, like the security threats that are out there. They should be educating their users about that and setting them up for success so that if they ever get into a situation where they might be targeted, then they know at least to stop, think, and then disengage. So those three things are super important. And then MFA, as we said, saving the world. That's already required for all user logins in Salesforce, but I would also encourage everyone to set up MFA for their personal accounts. If you watch the hacking video in the security keynote, you can actually see that if you reuse your passwords across multiple user accounts, which everyone does, that's just natural, we all have a lot of credentials to keep track of, they can possibly be leveraged... Something from your personal account can possibly be leveraged to gain access to another personal account or even a business account. So you want to make sure you're using MFA on every account. And then if you can do this, if it's available to you, add a security contact in your Salesforce org so that in the event that Salesforce needs to contact you about something, like I was talking about our amazing CISOC team at the beginning of this podcast, how they're working 24/7, they never sleep, they're just staring at a computer looking for security things. If they need to get in touch with you, they will reach out to your security contact that's listed in Salesforce. So it's important that that's up to date. So that's my advice to admins. Mike: That's good advice. I would also add, watch the 2013 movie Escape Plan. That's what that movie's called. Where Sylvester Stallone, AKA Laura, breaks out of prison. Well, Kylie, Laura, thanks for coming on and talking security. I mean, you know as well as I have since the moment I started at Salesforce, I think it's the most important thing because we're protecting our company's data. So what else you got better to do besides make the data better and more secure, in my opinion. So thanks for coming on. I look forward to seeing some of the new stuff that we have coming out from your area, Kylie, and the advice that you continue to give, Laura. Laura Pelkey: Yeah, we've got a lot in store, so this will not be the last you hear from Kylie and I, I promise. Kylie McKlveen: I love it. Mike: Well, we're going to hold you to that, though. Laura Pelkey: No pressure, Kylie. Mike: We'll be back. Laura Pelkey: We'll be back. Mike: Big thanks to Laura and Kylie for walking us through the security stack that every Salesforce admin should know. Now whether it's understanding what Salesforce has your back on, tightening up your permission sets, or leveling up with tools like Shield and Security Center, there is something here for all of us. Make sure to check out the full video series on security.Salesforce.com. Don't worry, I'll link to that in the show notes. And until next time, we'll see you in the cloud.

Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Bradley Condon, Technology and Systems Specialist at Waste Solution Services. Join us as we chat about his Dreamforce presentation and the custom apps Bradley built to help him land his next role. You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Bradley Condon. From customer service rep to the Dreamforce stage This year was the first Dreamforce Bradley was able to attend, and also his first time giving a presentation—I'd say he's off to a great start. Bradley started his career as a Service Cloud user who got curious about the platform. He clicked on the Help Section, ended up on Trailhead, "and by the end of the day, I knew what I wanted to do with the rest of my life," he says. However, when he started looking for jobs, he ran into a common problem. How can you show that you have hands-on experience without landing that crucial first Salesforce role? Using personal projects to stand out Bradley decided that the best approach was to build custom apps in Salesforce and reference them on his resume. But what to build? As he explains, "I realized that in order for me to make time for it, I needed to build something I was passionate about that I wanted to use." One thing he was definitely focused on was passing his Admin Certification exam. So he made an app to help him study by texting him a practice question every day. He also wanted to attend more Salesforce events, which led to another app that helped match Trailblazers with each other to save on accommodations. Bradley listed all of his personal projects on his resume and also shared them on Experience Cloud so interviewers could see his solutions in action. How to pick a side project In the course of building (and debugging) these projects, Bradley was able to learn by experience. By the time he was finished, he was able to sit for the Platform App Builder Certification without needing to study and pass it with flying colors. As for what to work on, Bradley encourages you to work with what you know. Can you think of an app that would help you in your day-to-day? Or, if you're interviewing in a specific industry, something that would solve a common problem they might face? We want to hear about your side projects, so tell us about them on our socials. And don't forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us in your feed every Thursday. Podcast swag Salesforce Admins on the Trailhead Store Learn more Automate This!: Boost Your Salesforce Certification Study Routine with Flows & Email-to-Text Gateways | Automate This! Admin Trailblazers Group Admin Trailblazers Community Group Social Bradley on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on X Mike on Bluesky social Mike on Threads Mike on X Full show transcript Mike: Welcome to Salesforce Admins Podcast. This week I'm chatting with Bradley Condon, a first-time Dreamforce presenter who has a powerful story about self-starting service cloud and personal projects that pack a punch. Now, Bradley shared this at Dreamforce about how building custom apps on the side helped him land a role and prep for certifications, and it was even something really cool he could do for a friend in a tough time. Now, Bradley's journey starts from a call center agent, all the way to creating experience cloud solutions that he could share with future employers when he was interviewing. So if you're curious about why you should do Salesforce projects on the side and do personal projects, Bradley's story is for you. So let's get Bradley on the podcast. So Bradley, welcome to the podcast. Bradley Condon: Hi. Thank you so much for having me. Mike: Yeah, well, it's exciting, you are a first-time presenter, as I learned before we pressed record, at Dreamforce, and you're going to talk about building personal projects, which I've done quite a few on the side, and I think that's really cool. I can't wait to see your presentation, but let's learn a little bit about you. Tell me how you got started in the Salesforce ecosystem and what you do. Bradley Condon: Yeah, of course. So I got started in the ecosystem as actually a call center agent using Service Cloud, working for a furniture company, just handling warranty issues and whatnot. And I got really interested in it and wanted to learn more about it, so I clicked on the Help section and ended up on Trailhead, and by the end of the day I was like, "You know what? I know what I want to do with the rest of my life," and started to make the transition to learn all I could about Salesforce and eventually, got my certification, landed a role, and then after that role, I had some time in between that I was trying to find the next one, and that's when I started building personal projects to really fill in that gap that I had to get my next role. Mike: Wow, okay. I think you might be the first person that started off in Service Cloud. Bradley Condon: Yeah, really? Mike: Yeah. A lot of admins I know, I'm not saying nobody, but admins I know always start off in sales, and you were in Service Cloud, so that was really cool. You had to have been just a dream. I'm just sitting here back thinking of what that admin must've been like when you were like, "Hey, I clicked on Help and I'm starting to do some Trailhead modules." I would've looked over and been like, "Bradley, I'm going to buy you lunch right now," because- Bradley Condon: Yeah, we didn't have an admin. Mike: Oh, okay. Oh, you just burst my bubble. That's all right. Well, you probably became the admin then, defunct. I started off doing because when you get excited with Salesforce stuff, you're probably like me, and I was doing a whole bunch of things. I was like, "Oh, I could probably track that in Salesforce. Oh, I could probably track that in Salesforce." I think I had three or four dev orgs that all had different things in it. Personal projects, you know you're doing Trailhead stuff, you're working. First of all, how did you just find time to do extra projects on the side? Bradley Condon: Well, so it all started when I was looking for another role and I was having trouble really getting my foot in the door for interviews, and I think it's because I was just looking like everyone else on paper. And I thought, "Okay, I need a different strategy. I need to do something that's going to help me standout." And that's when I decided, "You know what? I'm going to just start building, and that way, I have something to showcase during your interviews." Mike: I like that. Did, as you were interviewing, change and modify the org? I'm assuming you shared credentials with your Mike. Bradley Condon: Well, so I actually would make it so that it was available on Experience Cloud- Mike: Ooh. Bradley Condon: So that way, it also showed experience in cloud skills and made it available for them to use and made the flows available. So not only could they just see what I worked on, but they could actually play with it themselves. Mike: Wow, okay. That's next level. I like that. How did you decide what to build? Bradley Condon: So the first thing that I built was, I was studying for Salesforce certification and I needed to figure out a way to be more consistent with my study schedule. So I started to build an app that would send me a text message every day with a practice question to help study. Mike: Wow, okay. That's a really cool, that's a neat idea. I'm over here thinking, how am I tracking, I was into binge-watching shows. You're sending yourself text messages, we're totally on different planets right now. That's awesome. So as you were sitting, as you were working through different Trailhead modules, also try to build other stuff in some of that project org as you'd go through different Trailhead modules? Bradley Condon: Oh yeah, there was plenty of times where I'd be in a Trailhead module and I'm thinking, "Well, why don't they add this feature that we learned in this other module?" Well, obviously because you're not always going to be doing them in a certain order, and that's the one thing with Trailhead is there's so much to learn, you just kind of hop around and go with your interest. Mike: Yeah. Bradley Condon: But I've definitely seen times where I was like, "Okay, I've had to have this here," like this would be so perfect. Mike: Now I can only imagine going from being an end user in Service Cloud to building something, had to feel very different. What was some of the ways that you promoted yourself when you were interviewing to show people, "Hey, I also have this org that you can try out." You have to get past that initial screening process. Bradley Condon: Yeah, so the thing that I would also do is I would make sure that I included my portfolio site on my resume and also in the experience section, I would include those personal projects as part of my experience because that's something that I was working on almost full time for a while, that I just really dedicated myself to creating that project. Mike: Yeah, wow. I know when I first took the admin certification 18 years ago or 17, something like that, it was a long time ago, I had had a lot of hands-on building things in an org, trying stuff out before I actually took the certification. How did working in your developer environment or just building out sample apps give you that confidence for trying your certification? Bradley Condon: Yeah, that's a great question because most recent certification I took was the platform app builder certification, and I sat for that exam without studying at all. It all just had to do with what I learned doing on projects. So the one I've been working on recently is I'm building an app to match trailblazers who want to attend Salesforce events with one another to cut the cost of accommodations down. And so while I was building that, I learned a lot of concepts that were tested, so that really helped, especially with data modeling and stuff like that. Mike: Yeah, wow. I've seen quite a few of those. I think that's really cool. Let's talk about, so one of the things that I like about Trailhead is you're in, you've got the module, you have an org to try and build something out, and basically as long as you copy-and-paste everything, it should work, right? There's a few times you have to think through things, but when you're actually in a developer environment and you're building something that's your own idea, there's been multiple times that I've had flows not work or something just didn't fire off like I thought it would, how did that, kind of having your own space to try something out and fail help you understand more? Bradley Condon: Oh yeah, definitely 'cause that's the thing when you fail and you have that error message that you're trying to figure out what it is, that's probably when most of the learning happens, is when you don't do it correctly the first time and you really have to research and get down to the nitty-gritty and act like a detective pretty much. Mike: Yeah. There's multiple times when you sit there and you hit that error message and you're like, "Ah, I just need, please just work this time," and you're five times into it and it's like midnight and you're like, "I'm going to get this flow to work before I go to bed," the number of times I've said that. When you were working through, how did you think of stuff that you wanted to build? I think it's pretty easy to sit down and be like, "Oh, I'm going to create a custom object in these five fields," but it's another thing to think of, "I'm going to create this big app that's maybe going to take me a week or two weeks to build." How did you work that out and plan that time in your head? Bradley Condon: Yeah, so pretty much in order for me to make time for it and to really put the effort in and not to just stop building it was that I wanted to build something that I was passionate about and that I myself would use because that's going to show in the final product. If you're passionate about it, it'll show. It'll show in the user experience. It'll show in how you thought about it to be scalable 'cause you're going to want to continue to use it. So that's definitely how I did it. Mike: So this makes a kind of meta question. Did you build an app to manage your orgs or your apps that you were building and your interviews when you were doing this? Bradley Condon: No, I did not because I've seen so many of those and to me, that's not something I would use personally. Mike: Okay. Okay. Can I needle you on what was something you built that you did use, besides the text message thing? Bradley Condon: It was mainly the text message thing, but I also used it just to, so I had someone who had their mother pass away and they were really close to the mother and so as a gift for them, what I did is I had it so that it would send them different memories that they had with their mom every week, and then they could add little things about thinking-of-you messages to her. So that's something that I created that they used. Mike: Wow. I never would've thought enterprise software to be used as that way. That's kind of interesting. What gave you that idea? Bradley Condon: They were just going through a tough time, so I really wanted to do something that at the time, I didn't have that much money. So I had to do something that I could kind of make, and I'm like, you know what, I'm great at making apps. Mike: Right. Yeah, no, I mean that's super creative, that's super creative. I love that. As somebody that's gone through, built a lot of things, did you often have an idea to build something and then go and use Trailhead to learn the skill or did you try to do it in parallel or did you try to build it first and then go back to Trailhead? What was your thought process there? Bradley Condon: Yeah. So it would usually come up that I'd want to add a feature, like if I wanted to do something where I wanted to add commerce and I wanted to figure out, "Okay, well, how would I take payments if I did actually take payments?" And I had never done anything like that in my other position, so I had to go to Trailhead in order to find out how to do that. But there's also been times where I've been in Trailhead of thinking, "Oh, well, now I kind of want to add this to my app. I hadn't thought about this before." Mike: Yeah. Yep, absolutely. Take payments, I never would've thought of that. So as somebody that, I mean obviously people are going to listen to this and think, "Wow, I want to do the same." If people are looking for ideas to get started on, "I want to build out an org, maybe I'm going to look for another job, maybe I'm not, but I kind of want to test my skill," what is an idea or something they should think about in terms of building their first project? Bradley Condon: So I think a good thing to do is look at the roles you're trying to apply for and if there's a specific industry, create a project that's specific to the industry. If you're into the hospitality industry, maybe you create an app that helps with hotel room bookings, or if say maybe you find out there's a job you're applying for and they have room service, but they don't have a way to order it online, create an experience cloud site that allows people to start ordering their room service online. So you can present that in the interview. It's something that they're missing and something you could deliver. Mike: Yeah. And I've heard that in previous podcasts too, definitely start in the industry that you're in. Tell me about how the Trailblazer community helped you in building different projects or different ideas that you had. Bradley Condon: Oh, yeah. So I'm part of the Serviceblazer community, and that group has been so helpful to me. Obviously coming from Service Cloud, I gravitated to that community, but they've been really helpful. Anytime that you post anything on there, like Ask a Serviceblazer, you'll get a response usually within the next 10, 15 minutes, and everyone there is extremely knowledgeable. The amount of knowledge that comes through that channel is crazy. Mike: Yeah. Do you find, because you were in the service industry, that a lot of your apps start in Service Cloud? Bradley Condon: Yeah. And even if they don't start in Service Cloud, somehow I'll manage a way to add it into it. Mike: Yeah, I can see that. Bradley Condon: For the text message service, I used Email-to-Case to send text messages, I'd used e-mail-to-text gateways so that you send an e-mail to, e-mail that's dedicated to your phone number to get the text message to them. So even though it was not using the texting service, I used the Email-to-Case to make it [inaudible 00:15:14]. Mike: In some aspects, the limitations on those orgs actually force you to be more creative. Bradley Condon: Exactly. Mike: I didn't even think about that. It's always easy, like, "Oh, please turn this on." That's what we have at Salesforce. Just go to another PM, turn this on for me really quick and you don't think of if you actually had those limitations in place, how would you get more creative. I'm curious, so as you've done this and done different projects, have you helped anybody build projects or ideas that they've had of their own? Bradley Condon: I haven't really helped anyone build their own personal project. On the Serviceblazer community, I answer a lot of questions when it comes to people that are facing problems they're coming up with in their company that they need help with. But the funny thing is I usually end up going to a developer org and making sure that I try it out myself before I give them the answer. So I always make sure that I'm trying it and make sure that it's going to be accurate information I'm giving them. Mike: Yeah. Nope, I'm the same way. You cannot, in theory this should work, but let me log in and double-check that something hasn't changed or something is different. Is this your first Dreamforce? Bradley Condon: It is my first Dreamforce and it's also my first Salesforce event ever. I've never been to a community conference and never been to a Salesforce event, so I'm really excited. Mike: Wow. So you're just jumping in the deep end right away? Holy cow. Bradley Condon: Pretty much, yeah, pretty much. I'm a little nervous, but we'll see. Mike: It'll be fine. By the time you listen to this podcast, you'll be like, "Phew, what was I nervous for? I was awesome up there on stage. They loved me." So off the cuff question, when you present at Dreamforce, people always have questions. What's the one question you're afraid somebody's going to ask you? Bradley Condon: Oh, wow. Can you make it an agent? Mike: Well, by the end of Dreamforce, you'll know how to build plenty of agents. Bradley Condon: Yes. I'm really excited for that. My company wants to do a lot of stuff with Agentforce, so I'm really looking forward to that aspect. Mike: Yeah, and then you'll be able to come back and be like, "Well, here, let me just have you log into this," and you can build a Bradley agent of your own. Bradley Condon: Exactly. Mike: That's the plan. Thanks for coming on the podcast and telling us about this. I think it's a really cool idea. I hope people do it on their own. I know it feels like you're pressed for time. And when I was a Salesforce administrator, weekends and nights were the time that I would build stuff. I didn't have Trailhead. Back in my day, it was just the little Help box. But I think getting out of just that business world of accounts and contacts and contracts and building something fun, I remember going to user groups and having friends tell me about diaper changing apps, and I think one person talked about how they managed their wedding in Salesforce. That to me is just like, it gets you in and it gets you doing things that make you feel super empowered. So I think everybody should build on their own free time. Bradley Condon: Yes, it's a great skillset to have. Mike: Well, I look forward to seeing your presentation at Dreamforce, and I appreciate you coming on the podcast, Bradley. Bradley Condon: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. Mike: Big thanks to Bradley for joining us and sharing such a thoughtful hands-on approach to growing as a Salesforce admin. If you've ever been stuck in-between jobs or just unsure of your next step, I think Bradley's story is a great reminder that building what you love can open surprising doors. And hey, I would love to know if you are building something fun on the side. Share with that on social and be sure to comment. I'd love to know what fun things you're building. So with that, until next time, we'll see you in the cloud.

Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to David Simpson, Salesforce Administrator at the 1916 Company. Join us as we chat about how he landed his first Salesforce Admin role and what advice he has for folks who are new to the ecosystem. You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with David Simpson. A career pivot from finance to Salesforce If you didn't catch David's presentation about resolving Flow errors at Dreamforce, be sure to check out our earlier episode with him. Another thing that came up was his career pivot, and it was so interesting that I had to bring him back to talk about it. David started out as an accountant before eventually becoming a financial systems analyst. He had to run a lot of reports and quickly discovered that the thing he was actually interested in was the Salesforce platform. Soon enough, David became the part-time admin for his organization, but he quickly realized that if he wanted to just focus on Salesforce, he would need to find a new job. What to look for in a job description While David bulked up his credentials, he started looking for full-time Salesforce Admin roles to apply to. One piece of advice he has is to take a closer look at the job description and be clear about what you want. "It's not uncommon now for admins to have developer skills or maybe dip their toe into the architect side of things," he says, "but I focused mainly on positions that were only looking for admin-related work." David also was really specific about finding an organization that was already committed to Salesforce. He looked for green flags like job postings with specifics on certifications or Superbadges. Finally, it was important to him to join a Salesforce team as opposed to try to cut his teeth as a solo admin. Find opportunities to grow as an admin David's advice for people new to the ecosystem is to get curious. Back when he was a part-time admin, he was laser-focused on opportunities because that was what his organization was asking him to do. "I should have given myself the benefit of the doubt," he says, "and taken a little bit more risk in learning new things." Reflecting now, he sees where he could have taken the initiative to try automations or enhance integrations and become a better admin in the process. There are a lot more great tips from David about his pivot into a Salesforce Admin career, so be sure to listen to the full episode. And don't forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Salesforce Admins on the Trailhead Store Learn more Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Navigating Flow Errors as a New Salesforce Admin Admin Trailblazers Group Admin Trailblazers Community Group Social David on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on X Mike on Bluesky social Mike on Threads Mike on X Full show transcript Mike: Welcome to Salesforce Admins podcast. This week I'm joined by David Simpson, who you might remember from our pre-Dreamforce chat not that long ago. It was a little over a month ago, but this time we're diving into something that really hits close to home for a lot of Salesforce admins, and that is career change. The number one question I get in my inbox is how do I find a different career? What does it look like to interview as a first time Salesforce admin and questions like that? I'm telling you, we're going to dive into all of that with David because he's going to share how he went from spreadsheets as a staff accountant to automations as a Salesforce admin and what his transition looked like. We get into certifications. We talk about job hunting. We talk about imposter syndrome, and I dig into what it looked like to be a brand new Salesforce admin on his first day at a new job. I think this might be the most comprehensive podcast interview about what it looks like to change careers that I've done since I've launched this show. If you're curious about how David did it, this is the episode for you. Give it a listen and let's get David on the podcast. So, David, welcome back to the podcast. David Simpson: Thank you for having me back. Mike: It wasn't that long ago that we were talking, it was pre-Dreamforce about 45 days ago or so. I had you on the podcast to talk about the presentation you're giving at Dreamforce, and we've since wrapped up Dreamforce now and people are at home. Well, some people. I think some people stayed and probably went to Napa Valley and did wine tastings, which I wouldn't blame you. There's a lot of great vineyards and stuff out there. But one thing you brought up that I wanted to follow up on was your career trajectory, and we haven't talked about careers a whole lot, but let's just rewind a little bit and give one of those the last time on the Salesforce Admin podcast, because I've watched a lot of streaming things. Let's fill people in on what you do and where your career started and how you became a Salesforce admin. David Simpson: Sure. Previously on Salesforce Admins. Mike: Exactly. David Simpson: So, many years ago, I went to college for accounting, and my first job out of college was a staff accountant at a software company. After a few years of working in spreadsheets and doing the monotonous day-to-day that comes with being a staff accountant, I made a pivot to be a financial analyst, more specifically a financial systems analyst, and after I made that pivot, my supervisor at the time, he informed me that he was the administrator for our company's Salesforce instance, and that a lot of the work that I was doing, which was doing financial analytics for our professional service team, a lot of that data came out of Salesforce. Our professional service team would put opportunities into Salesforce, and we needed to make sure that those financials were clean. So, he suggested that I become another admin with the company, and that I would learn about the general inner workings of Salesforce and be a point of contact for cleaning up that data, for troubleshooting issues and just all the things that come with being a junior level admin. So, he gave me a system administrator license. He recommended that I go into Trailhead to just learn the basics of being a Salesforce admin, the Salesforce ecosystem, custom objects. All those general items that you learn as an admin, and then I just kind of fell in love with it. It was such an interesting pivot from doing spreadsheets and reconciliations. I was able to kind of do problem solving and be an environment that I wasn't too familiar in, but I was also able to see how Salesforce works and how we can get this data to be reportable data. So, the automation behind it or validation rules, just even something simple like setting up a page layout. It was all very interesting and new to me, so I just latched onto it a hundred percent, and then I further got sold on the whole experience after about a year or so, being a Salesforce admin, I went to my first Dreamforce in 2018 and I got my Salesforce administrator certification, and at that point, that kind of signaled to me that this is what I want to do full time. So, from that point on, it's all history. I went and unfortunately, the company I was with didn't have the resources for a full-time admin, so I did go to another company, but since then I have been an awesome admin just doing it every day. Custom objects, flows, you name it, admin work-wise, I do it. Mike: And I think career changes are hard. I went from sales to becoming an admin as well, and I think everybody kind of looks at like, well, what do I have to do? Or where do I have to go? Or what skills are required? And I think you, like me, kind of got fortunate you were with a company that was like, "Hey, we need these skills." And I'm assuming you probably did both jobs for a while, right? David Simpson: Yes. I was doing both jobs up until I left the company. It was essentially 50/50 financial systems analysis and then admin work. Mike: So, it's not like you just all of a sudden jumped in the pilot seat and took over the plane and away you go. David Simpson: Thankfully, that wasn't the case for me. I was able to kind ease myself into the admin role because I still had work to do on the financial side. Mike: Yeah. And I think that that works out as an incredibly lucky path. David Simpson: Yeah, definitely. Mike: One thing, so you mentioned they didn't have the budget for a full-time admin, which is the role you wanted to pursue. Did you consider just staying at that current position and kind of dividing your time, or was this something where you were like, "No, I really, this is, I'm going to commit?" David Simpson: It was something that I really wanted to commit on. In the beginning when I had first gotten a system administrator license and started doing basic admin work, I was completely on board with splitting my time between the two. I wasn't super confident in what I was doing as a Salesforce admin. I was still learning the ropes, but after I had gotten my first certification, that kind of sold it to me and locked in that this is what I want to do as a career. So, at that point, I did bring up my interest in being a full-time admin to the company, and they said, "Unfortunately, we just don't have the bandwidth to have a full-time admin whose only job is to be a Salesforce administrator." So, unfortunately, I did have to switch companies to go and find that. Mike: Okay, so let's pause there because that is the point that I think everybody has questions about, which is, so what did interviewing look like? What kind of prep did you do? You're going from career A to career B, and you kind of have some experience. I mean, what was that like? Because I'm assuming you sat in interviews for jobs you didn't get. David Simpson: Yeah, I won't sugarcoat it. It was a little tough. You're going into a new job where, yes, you do have experience, but you don't have a ton of experience. So, what I focused on was first the credential side of things. By the time I decided to make the jump to be a full-time Salesforce administrator, I did have, I believe, three certifications under my belt. I had the Salesforce administrator certification, the platform app builder, and then the CPQ specialist. So, I- Mike: Ooh, CPQ specialist. Wow. David Simpson: Yeah. Yep. I haven't used it in a while, but it was a very challenging and interesting certification to take. I actually took the Salesforce-provided trainings for it, and it was a wealth of knowledge, but so I had these three certifications. I did lean a little bit heavier on that to say, listen, I may not have years of experience, but you can see here that I'm able to answer the tough questions. Additionally, I did focus on what projects and initiatives I was able to complete at my job while I was part-time being a Salesforce admin. So, I had done some work building a custom object for, funnily enough, our accounting team to log their calls to people for collecting payment. So, I made a point to mention that in my interviews. So, I used the certifications. I used actual project and real-world experience, but something else that was a little kind of ace up the sleeve for my interview process was that I did have finance and accounting background. The job that ultimately hired me, while I did not do finance and accounting work for them, I was able to be a point of contact to help bridge the gap between the finance team and the Salesforce team. If they needed to pull financial data from Salesforce, I would be a person that they could go to, and I could confidently answer that because of my background. So, when it comes to jumping from one career to a Salesforce career, I definitely recommend that people do lean into what they've done in the past and show how they can enhance a new job's day-to-day by focusing on those areas of expertise, but just in a Salesforce context. That's what really helped me because yes, I did unfortunately have a handful of interviews where I didn't get the job, and I think that ultimately came down to just pure raw Salesforce experience. But the job that did hire me, it was because I had a great rapport with their CFO, and I was able to talk the talk with finance as well as bridge that gap to the Salesforce side of things. Mike: Yeah, I mean, you stayed in finance. It's not like you went over to a fish distribution warehouse or something. David Simpson: Yes, exactly. [inaudible 00:10:41]- Mike: I tried to pick something that was the opposite of finance, and my brain went blank for a second, and I was like, "Oh, I just watched a show on cooking last night." David Simpson: I mean, those are pretty different. I can't think of a much more different thing, but yeah, I mean because the Salesforce department at that new job also heavily interacted with the finance department, that was a big benefit to me. Mike: I can feel people listening to this podcast right now, and they're like, ask this question, ask this question, ask this question. I got like a million. What were in ... Because we're going to get to your job, I promise you, but we're going to just stay in this middle ground here for a second. In some of the job search that you were looking for in some of the, I don't know even, it sounds so old of me to call it classified ads. I'm sure it was like LinkedIn listings or Indeed job boards or something. What were some of the things that you looked for in terms of the description that you either filtered in or filtered out in terms applying for? David Simpson: Yeah, so some of the things that I looked for in my job search was making sure that the job posting focused purely on admin work. I think nowadays we focus so much on being specialized in a number of different aspects of Salesforce. It's not uncommon now for admins to have developer skills or maybe dip their toe in the architect side of things, and that is fantastic, don't get me wrong, but I focused mainly on positions that were only looking for admin-related work, so building custom objects, administering users, building validation rules, just those general kind of things were the main items I was looking for when I was transitioning to my first full-time Salesforce job. Additionally, I was looking to see what kind of qualifications and credentials they were looking for from an education side of things. If there was nothing about a Salesforce certification, then I erred on the side of caution and didn't apply there. I wanted a company that was fully bought into the Salesforce ecosystem, and that can be illustrated in a job posting by seeing that they're asking for the proper credentials. An extra little bonus, which was much more rare, was seeing your certain Trailhead status, or you have certain super badges. It's very rare for a job to ask for those sorts of things, but that's how you know you're working with a company that knows the Salesforce ecosystem and knows what they want. Mike: Yeah. And it's done its homework. David Simpson: Exactly. So, I was looking for those types of companies, just really people who were bought into the ecosystem, people who knew what they were looking for, knew what enhancements and long-term goals they had for their Salesforce org, and also was going to treat it with the level of attention and detail that is needed in a Salesforce org. There's many times where unfortunately, due to resourcing or staffing issues, Salesforce gets a little bit put by the wayside, and instead of having great initiatives and solutions deployed, it's just a bunch of band-aids, and then that comes back to the admin saying, "Oh, we can't deliver on something truly incredible because we're not given the time and the resources for it." So, I was looking for companies that really didn't have that mindset and were looking for true, awesome admins. Mike: Yeah. You were fortunate enough that you had worked in an org. Did you, at any one point in time in the interviewing process, think about preparing a developer org or a Trailhead org to showcase some of your skills? David Simpson: When I was first applying for a full-time Salesforce admin, that thought did not cross my mind. That said, this was many years ago in, I think it was 2019. That said, a little over a year ago, I did get a new job at my current position, and during that job search, I did have a Salesforce developer org that I had built out, and I recreated some of my most interesting and complex solutions in that developer org, and then basically in every single job interview I had, I said, "Do you want to see my dev org? I've built some awesome flows." And most of the time they said no. But every once in a while they'd say yes, and then I get to show off my screen flow that I worked really hard on. So, nowadays, yes, I do have my dev org. I'll bring up Trailhead every now and then, or I did back then when I was in the job hunt, but really, I like to showcase the dev org whenever possible because it is something that I'm actively developing in. Even now that I have a job and I'm in a job I love, I still whatever I do at my normal job, if I say, "Oh, that's pretty interesting," I go and I rebuild it in the dev org. But of course, without confidential information. Mike: Right. No. Oh, man. I'm the same way. I was crushed, I want to say a year and a half ago I was prepping for Dreamforce and the dev org that I'd had since 2006. I forgot to log in and it expired. David Simpson: Oh, no. Oh, that's horrible. Mike: And it was just more of like, it was just such an awesome little relic of stuff that I had built and things that I had tried out, and I have another one, but it's not as old and it doesn't have as much. There wasn't anything cool in it, but it was cool because it was stuff that I had built when I was, it had my first workflow in it. David Simpson: It shows a timeline of how you've grown. Mike: Yeah, I mean, very much so. I'd let nobody in there because they'd be like, "What were you doing?" Well, I was a kid with crayons back then. David Simpson: Yeah, you got to make mistakes in order to get better. Mike: Absolutely. Okay. So, I mean, we could do a whole podcast on interviewing and everybody in the comments will be like, "You should." Let's go to day one of the new job. So, you've transitioned, you're no longer 50/50. The company's bought in. Dave's our new Salesforce admin. Day one, outside of all of the HR paperwork and stuff, what did you do on day one? David Simpson: First, I quietly panicked because I was afraid I was not going to be able to live up to expectations. But after that calmed down, I of course met the team. I was very fortunate to work with a team of several people in the Salesforce space. There was two developers, there was another admin. There were two architects, and of course the Salesforce manager. So, they showed me around the org and they showed me some of the details of what they had built, what they're currently building, how they take in tickets. It was just essentially getting a feel for the Salesforce ecosystem that was there. And then from that point, once I was left my own devices, I just continued to do some more digging. I looked, okay, they're using cases. How are they using cases? Where is the queue that stuff that we get asked to do comes in? What does their account object look like? Because the account object is always one of the busiest objects in the Salesforce ecosystem. How many validation rules do they have? I was really just trying to take the little experience that I had from my previous job and then look at those same areas in this new job. So, essentially just getting a feel for the org. Mike: So, you joined a team of people? David Simpson: Yes. Yes. Mike: What was that like? David Simpson: It was a fantastic experience. I still keep in touch with all of them to this day, despite the fact that I haven't worked with them for a few years now. They were all super friendly and super helpful, and I think that was something that really helped me to continue this admin career path is that I got paired with such great people in this team, and it wasn't just the Salesforce team that was super friendly and helpful. Everybody in the company was, but these people took me in and they knew that I had limited experience, and they said, "It's okay. Let's show you the ropes of what you don't know and make sure that you are as successful as possible." That company was actually where I learned how to build flows. The Salesforce architect there, Nick, he sat down with me one day for two hours and he said, "Okay, we're going to build a screen flow and this needs to be triggered from a button and it needs to grab all these records. Let's see you build it." And then he walked me through it step by step, and it was just such an incredible experience, and I'm super grateful for it because now I use flows every single day in my job and I talk about flows. I talked about it at Dreamforce that just recently ended. I have a YouTube channel where I talk about flows. So, it was just such a good experience and I'm forever grateful for them. Mike: Would you advise newer admins when they're joining an organization to join as part of a team rather than trying to be a solo admin? David Simpson: Yes, most definitely. I think a team is one of the best things that you can have as a Salesforce admin outside of a good clean org, and of course, knowledge [inaudible 00:20:22]- Mike: Oh, a clean org. You mean the first day you get one? David Simpson: Oh, yeah, exactly. But yeah, a team is so important. Not only do you have other people that you can bounce ideas and problems off of, but just being able to work together and help lift each other up is such a good blessing in a Salesforce org. I think it's not only going into a job that has a team, but going into a job that has a team that is friendly, helpful, and inviting. Because I have had experience at a different position where unfortunately the team wasn't as welcoming, and that was really difficult to do good work because I couldn't ask questions. I couldn't troubleshoot certain things properly, and then when I eventually made a mistake, it was coming down on me pretty hard, but this first company here, it was just nothing but super niceness. Mike: So, having worked as part of a team, are you looking at your other team members in terms of where you want to grow your career or your skills and where are those? David Simpson: Yeah, definitely. So, working with a team and working with a team of a variety of skill sets, such as like an architect or a developer, it really does help kind of narrow down what I want to do. The architect route is something that is certainly interesting to me. I feel like it's a slight natural progression from being an advanced administrator and doing all these complex flow work, but I've seen what developers do with Apex, and while I think it's incredibly interesting and incredibly impressive, it's not something that's necessarily for me. So, you do get those different perspectives working in a team of people that you wouldn't get all by yourself because you're just kind of in the silo trying to figure everything out yourself. Mike: Well, and sometimes working in a silo, you have to do all those things. You just don't know that you're doing them, and then what part of it you're doing well. David Simpson: Yeah, exactly. Mike: I mean, I'd like to think I was an architect by drawing diagrams, but then I've seen architectural diagrams and I've realized I was just scribbling. David Simpson: Yeah, you don't know until you see it firsthand. Mike: Yeah. Well, and sometimes the only exposure, for me, the only exposure was talking with other people at user groups, and that's often limited as opposed to having them as coworkers. David Simpson: Yeah. You really do get the benefit of just day-to-day exposure with working in a team. So, I'm incredibly grateful for that exposure and that opportunity. Mike: So, last question, and maybe it's the hardest, I don't know, but if you had to rewind the clock and do it all over again, what's one thing you would do differently? David Simpson: Great question. I think that if I were to rewind time and do stuff differently, I think back when I was still that part-time admin and I was still just getting my feet wet, I think I probably would've taken a little bit more risk in learning new things because I was just told to handle this one aspect of Salesforce at the very beginning, as I'd mentioned earlier on, I was working with opportunities and our professional service team. I really only focused on that kind of area, but if I could do it all over again, I probably would've asked more questions and said, "Hey, how does this third-party integration work? Can I do some enhancements on it? I might break something, but can I give it a shot?" Or, "Why doesn't this process work the way as intended? Can you let me try this automation?" I eventually got those skill sets over the years, especially with automation, but it took a little bit longer than expected because I was just afraid to take that leap very early on, and I should have given myself the benefit of the doubt that I could have figured it out that early on, and I think that would've made me a stronger admin from the get-go. Mike: Yeah, I could see that. The benefit of hindsight is hindsight, right? David Simpson: Yes. Mike: The ability to look back and boy, if I had to do the same thing, I don't know what I would do differently other than probably be less hard on myself. David Simpson: Yeah, that too. You need to be forgiving of yourself because as an admin, especially a newer admin, you will make mistakes. You'll accidentally use the wrong tools or the wrong process. I mean, look to the admin certification where you have to separate between sharing rules and field level security profiles, permission sets. You're going to grab the wrong thing or do the wrong process, and it might not be the end of the world, but you should give yourself some leeway that you will make those mistakes and you'll learn from them. Mike: Yep. Well, I think that's a great way to end this podcast. David, thanks for coming on, and given is probably one of the most comprehensive overviews of switching careers that I think I've talked to in a while, so I appreciate it. David Simpson: Yeah, of course. Thank you so much for having me on again. Mike: So, big thanks to David Simpson for sharing his journey with us presenting at Dreamforce. It was amazing last week to see his presentations. I really appreciated how honest he was about the highs that he had, the hesitations and everything in between. So, whether you're just starting out or you're thinking of making your own pivot, there's a lot to take away from his story. And hey, if you found it helpful, pass this podcast along to somebody that might need to hear it. And until next time, we'll see you in the cloud.

Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Naveen Gabrani, Founder and CEO of Astrea IT Services. Join us as we chat about why Salesforce Foundations is a game-changer for admins. You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Naveen Gabrani. Why Salesforce Foundations is a big deal This year at Dreamforce, Naveen is giving a presentation about something that Enterprise users already have access to that's criminally underrated. "Salesforce Foundations is one of those lesser-known features," he says, "but it is extremely important." Announced last year, Salesforce Foundations brings the most useful basic features from Sales Cloud, Service Cloud, Marketing Cloud, Commerce Cloud, Data Cloud, and Agentforce to your org. It has a modern UI that consolidates the most important features you use every day into an updated homepage. And the best part? It's free—you simply have to enable it in Setup. Take Agentforce for a test drive Naveen gives some examples to highlight how important Salesforce Foundations truly is. If you have Sales Cloud, you can borrow Service Cloud features like Knowledge and macros to give your customers some technical support. Or you could build a customer journey with Marketing Cloud's flow-based interface that feeds into a Commerce Cloud storefront. With so many businesses pushing to integrate AI features, Salesforce Foundations gives you the opportunity to try before you buy. You can configure Agentforce and Data Cloud to get everything integrated with your org and then make the decision to expand functionality. It's much easier to convince stakeholders when you have something concrete to show them. Tips from a Dreamforce veteran Naveen is a Dreamforce veteran, so I wanted to know what keeps bringing him back, year after year. "The biggest thing for me is to make sure that I get time to meet my customers, meet my friends in the ecosystem, meet my partners," he says. "Those networking aspects of the conference have helped us a lot as a company in the long term." Each year, Naveen makes a point of writing a blog post to summarize his takeaways on what's happening with the platform. Make sure to check it out, and make sure to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you never miss an episode. Podcast swag Salesforce Admins on the Trailhead Store Learn more Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: How Can Salesforce Admins Leverage Foundations to Prepare for Agentforce? Admin Trailblazers Group Admin Trailblazers Community Group Social Naveen on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on X Mike on Bluesky social Mike on Threads Mike on X Full show transcript Mike: This week on the Salesforce Admins podcast, we're joined by Naveen Gabrani, founder of Astrea IT Services and longtime Salesforce ecosystem veteran. Now Naveen sat down with us just a little bit before Dreamforce to share why Salesforce Foundations is a game changer for admins; offering multi-cloud access, a sleek, modern UI, and best of all, it's free with Enterprise or higher licenses. Now if you've been curious about how to do more with what you already have, this episode's for you. Now stay tuned and don't miss Naveen's tips, use cases and insights from 30 years in tech and what he does after Dreamforce. So with that, let's get Naveen on the podcast. So Naveen, welcome to the podcast. Naveen Gabrani: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Mike: Yeah. Well, you are a string of presenters that we've had on the podcast over the last month, and today, when this episode comes out, it's the Thursday of Dreamforce. So I bet a lot of people probably listening to this on the plane flying home. But let's get started with a little bit about yourself, kind of how you got in Salesforce, how you got in the ecosystem, and then I want to talk to you more about what you're presenting at Dreamforce. Naveen Gabrani: Great. So my name is Naveen Gabrani. I ran a Salesforce partner company called Astrea IT Services. We are based in a place called Noida in India. So I have been running this company Astrea for about 15 years, so it's been a long time. It's been a fun journey. Before this, I used to work as a program manager with a large MNC, and so my total experience is more than 30 years. Mike: Wow, that's a long time. I was going to say your company is a teenager. Naveen Gabrani: Yeah. Mike: That's been around for a while. Now at Dreamforce this year, which is today. Whee. Or it could have been a few days ago, depending on when you're listening to this. You talked about Salesforce Foundation, get more from your org with Salesforce Foundations. Why was it so important for you to have admins understand how to get more from their org with Salesforce Foundations? Naveen Gabrani: So Salesforce Foundations is one of the features that is less known, but it is extremely important feature. This was announced in last year 2024 Dreamforce, and it's about one year now, but still it is not so well known. So I wanted to work towards making it more popular in the ecosystem. Mike: Yeah. What have you done with Salesforce Foundations? What made you so passionate about it? Naveen Gabrani: Sure. So let me talk a little bit more about what is Salesforce Foundations, and why is it so important? So I would classify Salesforce Foundation has two different parts. One is a modern user interface, which is fun to use, and second is the access to multi-cloud. So let me talk about the user interface part first, then let me get into the multi-cloud functionality. But before that, let me just talk who has access to Salesforce Foundation. So any customer that is using Enterprise Cloud or higher of Sales Cloud, Service Cloud or Industry Cloud, has access to Salesforce Foundation out of the box. The great thing about this is that it is completely free. You just need to enable it in your setup and then you're ready to go. Okay? So that is one of the wonderful things about Salesforce Foundation is that there is no cost involved in using it. Coming back to the user interface part, there are a few different things that are provided in the Salesforce Foundation user interface. One is all the apps are accessible on the left nav bar in a very modern UI. And also for setup for admins, the most important features are available through a dropdown. So for example, managing users, you can just go to the top right and then access the most important features that you use every day. The third important feature of the new Salesforce Foundation user interface is access to a more modern homepage that will give you everything that you need the moment you'll land on the homepage. So that is the UI aspects of the Salesforce Foundation. The second part of Salesforce Foundation is the access to multi-cloud, which is more important actually. So let's say you are using Sales Cloud and you enable Salesforce Foundation. What it will give you is it'll give you access to Service Cloud's essential features, it will also give you access to essential features of Marketing Cloud, Commerce Cloud, Data Cloud, and Agentforce. The reason it is called Salesforce Foundations is because it gives you the platform on which you can start building your Agentforce applications without paying anything extra. Okay? So let me just elaborate this multi-cloud features. Mike: Yeah. Naveen Gabrani: So let's just say that you are using Sales Cloud. Similar things are applicable for Service Cloud as well, but let's assume you are a Sales Cloud or CRM kind of customer. So main features of Service Cloud that will be available to you, to the users, are you have access to Knowledge Base. So the commonly occurring features are available to your users to let's say you can resolve the case using standard Salesforce Knowledge features, even though you are just having the Sales Cloud license. You also have access to features like macros, so you can perform multiple tasks together by just clicking them. Single click. Okay? So that is some of the Service Cloud aspects that are available out of the box to Sales Cloud license with Foundations. The additional clouds that are available are Marketing Cloud and Commerce Cloud, Data Cloud and Agentforce. So let me talk about Marketing Cloud next. So Marketing Cloud here is based on a flow like interface, so it's based on top of flows. So you build journeys and you use flows to build your journeys. So let's say you want to send a mail today and send another mail after two days to a market segment. Then you can create email contents using an Experience Cloud kind of interface, and then you build a journey and set up the campaigns, and this is all included within Salesforce Foundations. Okay? So you have Sales Cloud, you are getting essential version of Marketing Cloud for free, for no other charges. Okay? Mike: Yeah. Naveen Gabrani: So that is another big kind of bonus you get as part of Salesforce Foundation. The next is Commerce Cloud. So as part of your Foundation license, we have access to one storefront. You already have products available as part of Sales Cloud, so we can use Experience Cloud interface, a drag-and-drop kind of functionality, to build a professional looking user interface. And it's fairly easy to set up. So we can build an e-commerce site for our clients using Commerce Cloud and Salesforce Foundations. And this is you can pretty much go live in a day, it's so easy to set up. There are some limitations on the number of transactions and the number of storefronts, etc. But that is... So the idea is if you are a very large company and you're exceeding those limits, then you work with your account manager and purchase additional transactions. Also included our Data Cloud and Agentforce. If you want to just learn Data Cloud or you want to check whether Agentforce is good for me or not, then the idea is you can set it up in your Sales Cloud or Service Cloud org, try it out, test it out, set it up, everything. And then when you are satisfied with it, only then you buy it. So basic advantage of Salesforce Foundations is that you try everything. When you're satisfied, only then go ahead and make a purchase. So that in a nutshell is various aspects that come out of the box without any charges when you have just a Sales Cloud or Service Cloud Enterprise or higher license. Mike: Yeah, I know we did... I was just looking back, and I did a podcast with Eddie Cliff, who at the time was the product manager for Salesforce Foundations. And of course I think the benefit of everything we were talking about was it's such a simplified area to go to so that you know you're turning on all the right things and you're not really having to hop around in set up. Naveen Gabrani: Definitely. That is the interface part of it. Everything is... Like the most easy to access aspects of the platform for end user or for admin are available at one place. Mike: Yeah. You've mentioned you've been in the tech ecosystem for 30 years, and at your company for 15. In terms of if you had to stack rank really cool features that Salesforce has come out with, where on your list would Foundations fall? Naveen Gabrani: Oh, that's a tough one. Mike: Well, I did tell you there might be a few hard questions every now and then. Naveen Gabrani: Yeah, there's so many different things and it's difficult to compare. The big thing about Foundation is obviously the access to so many different things, and it's free. I'm not aware of any great Salesforce product that is available free of cost. So that is one thing that I really like about Foundations. And obviously the things that are extremely popular are... Like because I'm from development background, I like Apex a lot. Pretty much we never have to say no to a client. We never say no for any requirements because we know that we have flows, we have Apex, and we can handle it. So those are a couple of other favorite things that I have. Mike: Do you find, when you're working with clients, that you use Foundations more often to turn on Marketing Cloud and Commerce Cloud? Or do you use it to... Is it when they're expanding from Sales Cloud to Service Cloud? Naveen Gabrani: For now the focus has been on Agentforce, because that is the buzz in the market. But I think Marketing Cloud and Commerce Cloud are going to be equally popular with time, but for now, Agentforce is on everybody's mind. And sometimes clients are not convinced, so they want to give it a try and see a demo before they make a decision, and that's where Salesforce Foundation comes in. Mike: Well, sure. You got to test drive the car before you buy it. Right? Naveen Gabrani: Exactly. Mike: What are you excited about for Dreamforce this year, besides your session on Salesforce Foundations? Naveen Gabrani: I'm kind of a veteran. I've been to Dreamforce I think seven or eight times, I've spoken a few times. And so I mean you make so many friends in the ecosystem over the years, so the biggest thing for me is just to make sure that I get time to meet my customers, meet my friends in the ecosystem, meet my partners. Those are kind of the networking aspects of the conference, that has long-term... That has helped us a lot as a company historically. So because we are virtual, living in a far-off place, and the clients are in the US are elsewhere in the western world, Dreamforce is a place... It's like a get-together. So we get to meet them, build relationships, and then those relationships help us out for rest of the year. Mike: Yeah. No, I could totally understand that. So most people that are going to listen to this episode are probably listening to it after Dreamforce, because it comes out the Thursday of Dreamforce and everyone's like, "Oh my gosh, I got to run to this session. And I got to go to this place and get this food because San Francisco has a lot of food." Naveen Gabrani: Yes. Mike: I'd be remiss if I don't talk about food on my podcast, even though it's a non-food podcast. But my question to you, you've been to a lot of Dreamforces and you've been in the ecosystem for a long time, what is the most important thing that you do after Dreamforce? Naveen Gabrani: So my goal is that I try to summarize a couple of things. One is summarize the key announcements. Mike: Uh-huh. Naveen Gabrani: And whatever I have learned, like interesting things. So I meet a lot of vendors, I go to booths, I spend time in the expo. I listen to a few keynotes and get a feel of the new features that are coming in, I look at a few Salesforce demos, I also attend a few sessions. I try to mix and match and do many different things. So at the end of the show, I have a fair idea about what are the new things that the platform is announcing, and I try to publish a blog on that. That these are my learnings, so that the people who are not able to attend get to see that. That is one. Second is just like an acknowledgement mail to all the people that I have met kind of summarizing our discussions. Mike: Yeah. Naveen Gabrani: So those are the two things that I do while it's fresh in my mind. Mike: And I think you have... Well, a lot of people have a long plane ride home. I'd love for you to remember back to your first Dreamforce. If you could do your first Dreamforce differently, what would you have done? Naveen Gabrani: The first one, I think what happened was that people... I booked a lot of sessions, and so I didn't... It was just spent some time in the expo in looking at demos and all. I was trying to attend session from morning to evening, and your brain gets exhausted. So that was probably not a good idea. That's what I learned. So I try to keep my schedule somewhat free now. Mike: Yeah, I appreciate that as somebody who manages a lot of sessions with a lot of great content for you to have gone to. I was thinking back to my first Dreamforce, and I remember one of the best things I did was if I got to a session early I just sat down and just chit-chatted with the people around me, because we were all there to learn the same thing. Naveen Gabrani: Sure. Mike: And you meet some really fun people. Of course, this was I feel like 100 years ago. I also remember that was one of the first Dreamforce I was walking around with an iPad, and people were like, "Whoa, you're taking notes on iPad." I felt like I was so in the future at that time. Naveen Gabrani: Yeah. How things have changed in the last 10, 15 years. Mike: Right? Exactly. Naveen, I appreciate you coming on the podcast and talking about Foundations. I know I've covered this topic before, but it's really cool. The UI is super intuitive and helpful for admins. And I love that you've been in the ecosystem for a long time and are still coming to Dreamforce and still pointing out new things and inspiring people all the time. Naveen Gabrani: Thanks a lot. Thank you so much, Mike, for having me. Mike: Big thanks to Naveen for joining us and shedding light on Salesforce Foundations. Whether you are helping users with a streamlined interface or testing out Agentforce before you commit, Foundations gives us admins a powerful, no-cost way to do more with our org. Now don't forget to check out Naveen's post-Dreamforce blog wrap-ups, and keep an eye on what's next in the ecosystem. He is out there presenting a lot of things. So until next time, we'll see you in the cloud.

Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Sharon Klardie, Senior Director of AppExchange Labs & Innovation at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about how Labs empowers Salesforce employees to build and share solutions on the AppExchange, and what that means for admins navigating the new world of AI. You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Sharon Klardie. What is Salesforce Labs? Next year, Salesforce Labs will celebrate its twentieth birthday. If you haven't checked it out, it's an innovation program for Salesforce employees to create solutions, package them, and share them with customers like you. That's why I was so excited to sit down with Sharon Klardie. She's the Senior Director of AppExchange Labs & Innovation, and as she puts it, her team's job is to "showcase the art of the possible." If you've ever stared at a new feature and felt some blank canvas anxiety when it comes to how to actually implement it in your org, browsing through Salesforce Labs solutions could be a great starting point. Even if you don't end up using something, you can see what's possible and even look at how they did it on GitHub. The key to AI implementation If you're like most of the admins I talk to, you're probably looking for new ways to use Agentforce. As Sharon puts it, "How do you have meaningful and mindful implementations of AI at your organization?" You can get a lot of ideas looking through Labs apps that incorporate Agentforce. However, as Sharon points out, that's only one piece of the puzzle. You need to get your data in a good place and build a solid foundation for scalable AI, and there are several Salesforce Labs solutions that can help you get started. Best practices for AppExchange Finally, we talk through some AppExchange best practices that will help you get the most out of any Labs solutions you want to try out. First and foremost, never install an app you haven't used directly into production. Spin up a dev org or sandbox so you can test without breaking anything. But more importantly, make sure you have a solid rollout and change management plan for any new functionality you're adding to your org. You need to tell users what's new, teach them how to use it, and be ready to handle any edge cases that will inevitably pop up. Be sure to catch Sharon's presentations at Dreamforce, and say hi if you see her! And don't forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you never miss an episode. Podcast swag Salesforce Admins on the Trailhead Store Learn more Trailhead Module: Salesforce Labs Basics Trailhead Module: AppExchange Basics AppExchange: Trending on Salesforce Labs AppExchange: Salesforce Labs App Guide YouTube channel: AppExchangeTV GitHub: Salesforce Labs Help Article: How To Get Support for Salesforce Labs Created Applications Admin Trailblazers Group Admin Trailblazers Community Group Social Sharon on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on X Mike on Bluesky social Mike on Threads Mike on X Full show transcript Mike: This week on the Salesforce Admin Podcast, I sit down with Sharon Klardie, who's the senior director of Salesforce Labs, to talk about, well, what else? Free innovation. Sharon shares how labs empower Salesforce employees to build and share solutions on the AppExchange and what that means for Salesforce admins navigating the new world of AI and why, this is important, you should never install a new app straight into production. Now, whether you're Dreamforce-bound or catching up after Dreamforce, this one's packed with a lot of great tips from Sharon and a lot of AI strategy gold. So tune in, take notes, and let's get Sharon on the podcast. So, Sharon, welcome to the podcast. Sharon Klardie: Thank you for having me, Mike. Mike: I find it hard to believe, but you are one of the few people in the world that hasn't been on the Salesforce Admin podcast despite you and me being in the ecosystem for like a thousand years. Sharon Klardie: I know. I was thinking about this morning and I was like, "I can't believe I haven't been on here yet." So I'm super excited to share with the listeners here today. Mike: Well, let's talk about that. So how did you get started in Salesforce and in the ecosystem, and what do you do at Salesforce? Sharon Klardie: Oh, I love a Salesforce origin story. So picture, it's 2010, and I'm working at a software company that gets bought by an equity partner, and that equity partner implements Salesforce at every company they buy. And that was my first introduction of Salesforce back when it was just Sales and Service Cloud. And I absolutely felt in love with the platform. I felt empowered. There was community behind it. And ever since then, so from 2010 till today, I've been all Salesforce all the time. Mike: Wow. And you joined Salesforce. What part of Salesforce did you join? Sharon Klardie: So when I joined Salesforce in 2018, I joined leading the Salesforce Labs program. That was exclusively my focus. It's been part of my remit my entire time, almost eight years here at Salesforce. And I've added some other things to what I do on the daily basis, but the Salesforce Labs program, community innovation, it's my passion area. It's what brings me joy. I just actually love being part of it, seeing the creativity of the employee community, creating labs, and seeing the creativity of our trailblazers who are using Labs solutions. Mike: So for anybody that hasn't heard about Labs, when you say Salesforce Labs, what do you mean? Sharon Klardie: So Salesforce Labs is a program that's actually turning 20 next year, if you can believe it. It's an innovation program where we empower Salesforce employees to create solutions, package them, and share them on AppExchange for our customers to use. And Salesforce Labs solutions are always free. They're community-driven. You can think of them like an open-source project. So it's volunteered by employees. It's not an employee who is on a product team and this is part of their regular release roadmap. This is an employee who sees a problem in the space that they want to solve, or they have a really creative idea on how to use our technology. So the Labs program really helps trailblazers to learn new technology, play around with it, get starter packs and templates. Blank canvas anxiety is a real struggle as an admin, throwing back a few years from my admin days, but sometimes a new feature would be rolled out and you'd be like, "I'm not sure where to start." So the Labs program really tries to help trailblazers be able to adopt new technology, understand how you can use it, and showcase the art of the possible. Mike: That's good. I know as an admin, I found Labs because I needed a project management app, and at the time, Reid Carlberg had a really cool one, so I was like, "Oh, that's kind of cool." And then from there on, I looked for the little beaker logo. Sharon Klardie: Yeah, we love that beaker logo, and then we evolved the logo to actually use the periodic elements of tables to use labs spelled out because we're geeky like that. Mike: Right. I know. It kind of has like a Breaking Bad feel to it. Sharon Klardie: Yeah. Mike: I'm all about that. So at Dreamforce you're going to talk about seven free solutions to drive your AI strategy forward, and it's going to be a really cool presentation, and some people are going to get to see it, some people aren't. Why is it important for admins to look to the AppExchange and some of our Labs apps in terms of moving AI forward in their organizations? Sharon Klardie: Yeah. So right now, AI is moving at the speed of light or whatever is faster than the speed of light. I'm not sure what that is, but there's probably something faster than the speed of light, and that's what it feels like is happening right now. So one of the benefits that the Labs program will have is we can showcase different solutions on how to use this new technology, but also I think even more importantly is how do we think about how do we want to implement AI at our organization. And sometimes that might actually be using a Labs solution or another partner solution on AppExchange that isn't actually AI-driven, but helps set the groundwork for how do you have a strong AI strategy. So an example of that would be, is there a set of technology or tools or processes that you should have in place at your organization to really help you identify what are your goals and use cases for using AI? And we have a number of different Labs solutions that we'll share. Pro-tip for anybody who's going to see the content, it would be probably a few more solutions than seven. We'll throw a couple bonus things in there and some shout-outs. But there's a lot of technology out there to really help you frame is your data ready. Data readiness is super important as an AI strategy to move forward in the space. If you're going to train your AI or use AI on your data and if your data is no good, then you're going to have a problem. The AI isn't going to respond the way that you expect or what your business needs. So we want to showcase these solutions that you can use to get started to help ground you in strong AI strategies. Mike: So it's not just downloading agents. Sharon Klardie: Exactly. It's going to be more than that. It's really about thinking about how do you have meaningful and mindful implementation of AI at your organization. And we'll also have some showcases of how to use cool Agentforce and AI technology. Mike: Oh, nice. I noticed you put the word free in your title. That implies that there's some that aren't free. Sharon Klardie: Yes. So all Salesforce Labs solutions are free. So anything that our employees create and contribute are free to download from AppExchange. But there are other solutions from our partner ecosystem and some are free and some are paid. It is important to note for anybody who's not familiar with the Salesforce Labs program is these are not official Salesforce products, which is actually called out in the master service agreement, the MSA. These are community contributions, so you can't pick up the phone and call support and get help for them. We generally try to open-source all of our Labs solutions on GitHub so you can actually use it to learn new technology, see how an employee built that solution, or maybe that solution does 80% of what you want, but you want to change it. You can go get the source code and then go customize it for whatever works for your business. And if the solution that the employee built hits a home run and it solves your business challenge you're trying to solve, you can go install the managed package and off to the races. Mike: Yeah. And I'm also thinking any of your Labs apps are also going to immediately be able to be agentified? Sharon Klardie: I would say. So we have some Labs solutions. I wouldn't say that's a hundred percent guarantee, although most of them should be able to be extended, but we have over 500 Labs solutions on AppExchange and I can't say conclusively that all 500 would become- Mike: You don't know all 500 just like the back of your hand? Come on now. Sharon Klardie: I, unfortunately, do not. I know many of them, but not all 500. But yeah, most of them should be extended. We're actually looking at engaging with some of our more popular Labs solutions and having conversations with the builders to say like, "What are ways that we could extend this using newer technology that's come out?" Either adjacent, something like if you want to use AI, you can add onto it, but if you still want to use the main core functionality, like custom objects and flows that was there but not to have an AI arm to it, then you could still use the original. But how can we take these to the next level using the great technology that's come out over the past couple of years? Mike: Yeah. Now, I think the use of apps within Salesforce has probably evolved since you and I were out in the world as we little admins wandering blindly through the Salesforce universe, because it's become ubiquitous that you'd use an app on your phone, right? Like there's specialized apps to do things. Oftentimes on my iPhone, I'll get an app, I'll try it out, it won't work, I'll just delete it, but I don't have a spare phone. What is best practice for admins evaluating apps, be it from Labs or somewhere on the AppExchange, in terms of trying and testing something out perhaps before it goes into production? Sharon Klardie: There absolutely are some best practices. Number one will be we do not install brand-new apps we've never explored into production. We do not do that. I'll repeat, we do not do that. Some trailblazers like to explore in a dev org first, but the cons of that is you don't have your unique customizations. A lot of trailblazers have a lot of success in installing a Labs solution or a partner solution in a sandbox first so you can see how it interacts with the customizations you've made to the platform. But both either a dev org or a sandbox is absolutely where you want to start to check out any new solution, whether it be Labs or partner solution. Mike: Yeah. So that was the first mistake that I made back in the day. I would just try things out in production. Why not? Sharon Klardie: Yeah, no, hopefully nobody takes that guidance, Mike. Definitely it's much more advantageous for everyone to play around and see how things work. And it gives you a little bit more freedom as an admin to look under the hood and see how exactly it's going to work and then what your rollout plan is. Because it's just like what I tell my Labs builders, it's not if you build it, they will come. It's not if you install it, it will work, right? Mike: Right. Sharon Klardie: So you also need to have that kind of change management process at your organization. If you just install a new app and have some great functionality, if you don't tell your users about it once you move it to production, they might not know what to do with it or they might not use it in the way that you had in mind. I think we all know in technology, when we release things into the wild of our user base, we are going to come across some use cases and edge cases that we never thought might be the reality. So the more that you can get ahead of that and the change management process, it's just going to be smoother for both you as an admin and also for your end users. Mike: Yeah. Now, one thing I'd be remiss not to cover, we talked a lot about consumption part, but you mentioned Labs is also open to non-Salesforce employees, correct? Sharon Klardie: No. So only Salesforce employees today can create and distribute a Salesforce Labs solution. Mike: Gotcha. But our AppExchange is open to non-Salesforce? Sharon Klardie: Absolutely. We have a very robust partner ecosystem and a process to engage. It can be a free solution that somebody wants to create as a business to kind of spin up and share with the community. You can go through our partner program to do that. And of course, it's an ecosystem, so if you have a solution, idea that you believe is of value to our broader trailblazer community and customers, then you can engage with our program and list there. But anything created by Salesforce Labs is created by a Salesforce employee. Mike: Yeah. Sharon Klardie: And I just also want to note Labs go through the same security review process that all of our partner solutions go through as well. Mike: Oh, so no cheating because it's a Salesforce employee? Sharon Klardie: That's exactly right. Trust is our number one value here. We want all the Labs to adhere to that as well. Mike: Right, yeah. No, it's same rules apply for everybody. That way you get the same quality and consistency. So that makes sense. Well, Sharon, thanks for coming on the podcast. I think this session's going to be awesome. I can't wait to hear what people have to say about it, and I can't wait to see what new stuff comes out from the Labs team. Sharon Klardie: Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. Hopefully, it's the first time, but hopefully not the last time. I've really enjoyed chatting with you, Mike, and if anybody is at the session and shows up at Dreamforce, stop by and say hello. I'd love to meet you. And I'm on LinkedIn, and if you want to engage with that way, share any feedback about the Labs program, I'm happy to engage. Mike: So a big thanks to Sharon for joining us and sharing some behind-the-scenes look at the Salesforce Labs. I don't know about you, but I'm ready to fire up a sandbox and test drive some :abs apps. That was always the most fun part for me as an admin. But remember, not in production, just in a sandbox or not in production. But hey, if you're heading to Dreamforce, don't miss her session on the seven, plus she says a few bonus free sessions to fuel your AI strategy. And remember, best part about Salesforce Labs apps is they're free and open, and they're built with you, the community, the Salesforce admins, developers, architects in mind. So with that, until next time, we'll see you in the cloud.

Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Abhishek Saxena, Technical Architect at Copado. Join us as we chat about how he learned Data Cloud and why understanding context is the key to making Agentforce shine. You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Abhishek Saxena. Overcoming the complexity of Data Cloud As a developer and architect, Abhishek isn't lacking for technical knowledge about the Salesforce platform. But even he found it hard to get his head around what Data Cloud was and what it could do. Abhishek attended community events, scoured LinkedIn posts, studied videos, and even read a book about Data Cloud. But there were so many new terms being thrown around, and he still couldn't explain the difference between a data lake object, a data model object, and a data source object. "Even though there was a lot of buzz around Data Cloud and how it is such an amazing, innovative solution," Abhishek says, "I was not able to grasp what it does in an easy fashion." Luckily, he had an ah-ha moment that helped him see the big picture, and so he's giving a presentation at Dreamforce to share what he's learned. What Data Cloud actually does Abhishek's talk, "A Beginner's Guide to Data Cloud," will get you up to speed in 20 minutes or less. As he explains, the main thing to understand is that Data Cloud is about data unification. If you have your data in a bunch of different places, you used to have to dedicate significant developer time to maintaining APIs that allowed Salesforce to share information with your other platforms. With Data Cloud, you have everything on one record, with Salesforce and Slack as the front door. You have a complete 360 view of your customer, regardless of where the information is. Why Data Cloud is crucial for Agentforce Getting a complete picture of your customers is doubly important when it comes to Agentforce. AI agents are extremely context-dependent: they do a much better job when you "ground" them with extra parameters. As Abhishek says, "If you give agents good data, your responses are going to be much more personalized and better." Data Cloud allows you to give your AI agents a much more specific picture of your customers, opening the door for better and more effective automations. If you're coming to Dreamforce, make sure to come to Abhishek's presentation so you can be a Data Cloud pro. And don't forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you never miss an episode. Podcast swag Salesforce Admins on the Trailhead Store Learn more Salesforce Admins Blog: From Pillars to Lakes: Using Data Cloud As Your Source of Truth Admin Trailblazers Group Admin Trailblazers Community Group Social Abhishek on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on X Mike on Bluesky social Mike on Threads Mike on X Full show transcript Mike: So have you ever tried to figure out what a data lake is and then ended up wondering where the lifeguard's at? Ditto. Today on the Salesforce Admins podcast, we're talking with Abhishek Saxena, a Salesforce consultant with a developer's mindset and a teacher's heart. Abhishek's going to take us through his journey of learning Data Cloud and how it went from something buzzworthy to something he could really explain to a five-year-old. So if you've ever felt overwhelmed by new tech or just really weren't sure where to begin this episode's for you. Plus Abhishek gives us a sneak peek at his Dreamforce session and why understanding context is key in making AI tools like Agentforce shine. So with that, let's get Abhishek on the podcast. So Abhishek, welcome to the podcast. Abhishek: Thank you so much for having me, Mike. Mike: I'm excited to talk about this because of all the things going on at Salesforce, we've got a big event coming up in just a few weeks from when this is going to air, and you're doing a presentation there, but before we talk about that, let's find out a little bit about you. How did you get started doing stuff in the Salesforce ecosystem and want to present at Dreamforce? Abhishek: Certainly. So I have been working in the Salesforce ecosystem for about 10 years now, it'll be 10 years later in November. I started off immediately after my college where I was studying computer science engineering. I always had an affinity to computers and how they work, so it was an easy choice to what to study. But getting into Salesforce, that was a happy coincidence. My hometown, where I'm originally from, it's called Jaipur, it's in India, and that's where I did my engineering from as well, Jaipur is traditionally not touted as a tech hub, but for some divine reasons there were several Salesforce consultancies that were trying to make it big in that area when I was just graduating, I got an offer to work for one of them as a Salesforce consultant after a series of intense grueling interviews. But yeah, that's how I got started, and I have never looked back since then. Mike: Fresh out of college. And let's see, people heard this in the past, I've recently had somebody point out to me that my Salesforce experience is old enough it could graduate from high school. So your Salesforce experience is somewhere in middle school, I guess, at this point. Abhishek: Yeah, sounds about right. I'm eager to get to high school and get to be the cool kid. Mike: Well, right now it's getting its first iPhone and being popular. I don't know what ten-year-old kids do nowadays, I don't have kids, so we'll just move on. Eventually my experience will be in college and that'll scare me. Abhishek: Yeah, I hope I can get the certified technical architect or MVP or one of those cool badges to show around everyone. Mike: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, being in the ecosystem is just fun enough too. It's not going down the road with all those biker patches or like a race suit. It's not, what was that game? Pokemon? You don't have to collect them all. But you're talking Data Cloud, so tell me from your experience, what's so interesting about Data Cloud that admins need to know about it? Abhishek: So as I mentioned, I've been in the ecosystem for a long time and got decent exposure on Sales Cloud, Service Cloud, Experience Cloud, so yeah, just the core platform in general. But over the last few years, Data Cloud has been one of those top things, and most talked about things from Salesforce at events everywhere. So even though there was a lot of buzz around Data Cloud about how it is such an amazing innovative solution, it could replace some of the other tools that an organization might be using, I was not able to grasp what it does in an easy fashion. Especially around two years back, 2023 Dreamforce when it was relaunched after being renamed from Genie, I was trying to understand what it does, what could be its use cases, maybe look at some Trailhead modules, but at that point in time, there wasn't a lot that was available. So Trailhead modules weren't baked out completely. There weren't any demo environments that I could get hands on, and it just felt a little bit overwhelming. I knew my friends who were doing Marketing Cloud, Einstein, CDP, that sort of stuff, knew what was going on, but us commoners who were just working on the core clouds. Mike: Us commoners. Abhishek: Yeah, we weren't privy to that information as much as they were. So I started to get down on this journey to learn a little bit myself because yes, seems like everyone was talking about it. So I started by attending different community events in the States and Canada, trying to attend the Data Cloud specific sessions, read people's LinkedIn posts, watch some videos. I even read a book on Data Cloud- Mike: Wow. Abhishek: ... that one of our friends in the community had put out, but even then it was just so overwhelming trying to think about it logically. I am an engineer, I like to think about things in a logical analytical manner that, okay, I'll first learn the alphabets, then I'll start to learn words, sentences, so on and so forth. So I wasn't able to get that topography down in my mind that way to get started with Data Cloud. There was these few workshops or actually Salesforce Data Cloud trainings that Salesforce teams were doing several times a month. I had to attend that one training probably four times until it finally clicked to me that, okay, now it feels that I have the basics down of what's going on with Data Cloud, and if someone comes up to me and asks me about it, I'll probably be able to give at least a satisfactory answer on what exactly is Data Cloud. But at this point, now I had several months of experience trying to learn Data Cloud, I thought that, okay, let me go ahead and do the Data Cloud certification as well just to quiz myself if I know enough. I did that and I passed. So that was the validation I was seeking that, okay, now I am somewhat of a Data Cloud consultant. But I wanted to share this journey with everyone else because I consider myself fairly technical with a consultant and a developer background, and if it took me a lot of time to get through, then I would not blame anyone else in the ecosystem who's not as technical to not completely understand that, Hey, why Data Cloud? What is Data Cloud? Why is this important? So that's why I thought that yes, I need to share my knowledge with everyone else. Mike: No, I get that. And what's so relevant about all that is when companies roll out features, and I'm not just speaking for Salesforce, but anybody, there's often a lot of thought and process that has gone into it, and just because you don't get it right away within a sentence or two or 10 seconds into somebody's presentation, that's not on you. That's just speaking to the complexity of perhaps the situation, where you're at in your learning journey, and then also just the complexity of the product that you're trying to understand. I think it's a lot for you to say, it took me a few months to kind of wrap my head around this. It doesn't just happen right away. And I think some people get really frustrated in themselves when they're like, well, I just don't get it. Abhishek: No, absolutely. I agree with you. And yeah, I have been very lucky that I like what I do. So even after work, I'm not afraid to put in some hours to just sharpen my skills. But everyone's situation is not the same, you've got a life outside work as well, you've got so many things going on that sometimes you're just not able to put in those 10,000 hours to get perfect on something. And that's why I feel that if you attend my session on A Beginner's Guide to Data Cloud, at least in those 20 minutes that we are together, I could give you a good framework about, okay, after you leave it that I understand what is Data Cloud. I know what are some key use cases and why everyone says that it's needed for Agentforce. So that's what I'm trying to get out in those 20 minutes for everyone who has not yet had the opportunity and the luxury to actually focus on going through the Data Cloud trail certification modules or just having the training on the job of their own organization adopting Data Cloud yet. Mike: Yeah. What was it for you, as you were investigating looking into and learning about Data Cloud, what was the first kind of piece of it that started to click for you that really was like, oh, I think I'm starting to understand it? Abhishek: Yeah, great question. So when I was learning about it, and as I said, Data Cloud is a slightly different beast than the regular core clouds like Sales, Service, Experience, it's something called as a near core cloud. So it's not directly built on Salesforce, it's Salesforce adjusting, you can say. So some of the concepts that were being introduced, they were not getting my other knowledge that I had gained through learning Sales, Service and Experience Cloud. There were concepts called as Data Lakes, there were some activations, segmentations, things that I had never really learned in the other clouds while working on it. So even though it was somewhat difficult to get the vocabulary for Data Cloud to get started, once I was able to work through those first few basic things, the biggest aha moment for me was when I saw that Data Cloud can help you consolidate a lot of different records. So I'll try to explain this and I go into much more detail in my session as well. If anyone in our listeners is in the attendance, I would love to have you in my session. But just to give you a recap or a quick preview of what I'm going to talk about is that let's say your company uses Salesforce, your company also uses SAP for something else. Your company maybe uses Trello for tracking some stuff as well. So you have your record your identity as, since my name is Abhishek, all these systems have my identity there in SAP or ServiceNow, Abhishek can do certain things, maybe that has my personal email for some reason, or maybe a different phone number. And then the Abhishek on the Salesforce ecosystem, that record, that contact or user, has slightly different details. Maybe the address I put in is different. Maybe the phone number I put in is my work phone, and in the other one I put in my personal phone. So what Data Cloud ends up doing is that from these different identities of Abhishek that exist in these separate platforms that are not linked, it allows you to create one record where all of your identities are linked. So in case I want to get Abhishek's email in SAP, I can just call out to Data Cloud and Data Cloud will give that to me instead of myself having to write three or four different APIs trying to de-duplicate records, trying to find some common way or how it's called an external key of linking that, okay, this Abhishek in Salesforce and that Abhishek in SAP are the same person. Data Cloud takes all of that complexity out of this and just tells you that, okay, Abhishek's record exists in five systems, here are the values of different things in those five systems. And I could just get that. So once I understood this, I was like, wow, this unified data that Data Cloud is giving you could have so many ramifications. And that's again, one of those things that I explored in that presentation that how agents that need this sort of information can benefit from Data Cloud. Mike: You were so close. I was about to say, wow, you just described Data Cloud and you didn't talk about agents. But no, what's crazy is thinking back in my umpteen hundred years of Salesforce experience, there's been different waves of where's your data? For a while it was, well, Salesforce is CRM, and then they had Service and then that takes care of that. But there's another system for this and there's another system for that, another system for that. And the world just kind of operated that way. It was like just understood, people had multiple systems to log into. And I remember for a long time when I was a Salesforce administrator, the big question was, well, such and such system, does X, can't Salesforce do that? And there was a big push for admins and developers to kind of rebuild all of this functionality into Salesforce. And so you would have these really robust time management or project management apps and the platform could more than easily handle it. And you didn't have to be a coder, you could build a project management app with a few objects and a couple dozen fields and some relationships, and there you're ready to go. And then it kind of became like, well, wait a minute, why are we spending all this time building on this platform when we can just connect things? But there was no sense of unification there. And I think in your description, what I heard is finally now you can have an entire enterprise where the front door is Salesforce or Slack and it can access all of that data and you're getting a complete view of a customer regardless of where the system information is, and that allows other applications and other things to run and do their job just well, but you still get that unified pull back in, and then you don't have the burden of a developer maintaining 200 APIs on the back end. Abhishek: 100%, Mike, you got a spot on. Mike: See, you're a good teacher. Look at what you just taught me. Abhishek: Well, you are not a bad student either. Mike: Well, I think a lot of people have had Data Cloud explained to them in terms of agents and Agentforce, and there's power there, but there's also the first step out the front door, which is, yeah, but what if your customer service people or your salespeople sit down and actually get that full view that we've been talking about regardless of where the system of that information lives? Abhishek: Certainly, and that reminds me actually, so the terminology that Data Cloud uses is that you get the customer 360 view. Meaning that, okay, your organization uses Salesforce for CRM, you are using Azure to actually log into different systems, single sign on, maybe Excel and other Azure products. You're using Workday for HR related things. You're using Asana for project tracking. And like I said, you have different identities in these different systems, different values for maybe same fields, similar fields like email address, regular address, phone number, et cetera. But with Data Cloud, you are able to unify all of these different identities of a single user and then present that within your Salesforce systems as the customer 360 where you can access all these different details and take much more intelligent decisions. So hopefully now our listeners are able to get that, okay, why is it so important for Agentforce and why is it so important in general. Mike: Yeah. So then that's my next question. Why is it so important for Agentforce? Abhishek: So agents, like any AI, and I'm sure our listeners must have used some sort of AI at this point, ChatGPT, Gemini or anything. When do agents do their best work? They do their best work when they have good context to go on and a good prompt that the user asks. Now, what is context? Context means that if you ask it to write me a sales email, if that's your prompt, it's going to give you a very generic answer, a generic response that, okay, Dear ABC, are you interested in our sales services? Are you interested in buying our product? But that's going to be it. It's going to imagine a few things, it's going to skip out some important details. So basically the answer is going to be generic and not as helpful for your particular organization's scenarios. Now, if you provide the agent with good context that whenever agent responds, it knows that I'm working for Coral Cloud Resorts, I am responsible for handling bookings, I can refund things, I can access customer details and which objects to look at, where to get the information from. If your agent has these informations, or again, a simpler example that if you are in ChatGPT and tell it that, okay, I want to write a sales email as a customer service agent for Coral Clouds, my name is Abhishek Saxena, when you start your email, start with the salutation. This is intended to be for the guests who are staying at the resort. And if I give all of these details and then hit enter, the response I'm going to get is going to be a lot more personalized. And that's how you can automate it to send to any user that is using your agent. That's what I mean by why context is so important for any AI to work. And with Data Cloud, as we have discussed in the podcast so far, it gives you that unified profile. It gives you the customer 360 so that your agents have all the information about your particular user who is asking the question or to wherever you're trying to use it. Because good data, if you give it good data, your responses are going to be much more personalized and better. Mike: And that's a lot of what we do in the Agentforce Now workshops like the one I do, the intro one where we talk about just prompts and even just writing a better, more descriptive prompt. If you think about it, I kind of reference it in the same way of it's like learning to cook with one cookbook or learning to cook with a library of cookbooks. If you have more references then you have more ways of looking at things and more context into providing better information and a better response. Abhishek: Certainly. Mike: I love it. I'm curious to know, in learning something, there's always something you're going to run into that maybe frustrates you or maybe for me, just bounces off the surface. What was it about Data Cloud that was kind of something you really had to work to try and understand that maybe other admins might be having difficulty understanding as well? Abhishek: Yeah, great question. Like I said, most of my experience was on Sales Service Experience Cloud, so I was not a data specialist or a data consultant. So wrapping my head around what is a data lake? What is a data warehouse? What is the difference between a data lake object versus a data model object versus a data source object? How are they getting stored? Where are they getting stored? Is it not just another Salesforce object in which we are storing everything? So that's sort of basics of data processing that a typical data engineer knows, but a typical Salesforce consultant, admin developer does not, that was somewhat difficult for me to wrap my head around because in my training on working on Salesforce platform for so many years, I have been accustomed to think about data in terms of objects, Socket queries, and that form. But with Data Cloud, it's a little bit different. So that was one of the things that threw me off initially, and I had to look at some resources even outside of Salesforce's Data Cloud trainings to understand that data lake is not actually a lake. Data warehouse is not a big factory in which there are tons of books with data. So yes, that was something that threw me off initially. Mike: Yeah, those terms when they first came out, I know I've done some podcasts like with Skip Sauls, and he's talked about putting a cabin next to the data lake and stuff that. I'm like, okay, who comes up with these terms? It's not helping me understand. Where's the data pond? Can you have a data swimming pool? Somebody decided lake. Abhishek, this has been a fun conversation. I think it's going to be a very compelling presentation at Dreamforce, but also I think it's been very inspirational, at least for me, that even the hard stuff is still not that hard to learn. I go back to a saying, everything in the world is created by somebody at some time, and if that somebody can figure it out, you certainly can too. So Data Cloud and Data Lakes was created by somebody, which means they figured it out, so it can't be that hard for anyone else to figure it out. Abhishek: Yeah, no, absolutely. And as I said, you got to learn the alphabet before you can learn to work with words and work with sentences. And I firmly believe that if you cannot explain something to a five-year-old, then you don't understand it yourself. And again, a five-year-old needs to have that structure to understand it. So hopefully with the session that I've put together, everyone can learn the alphabet of Data Cloud and even start to make their own sentences. Mike: I like it. Well, we'll see how many people can describe it to a five-year-old after we're done. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast. This was a lot of fun. Abhishek: The pleasure has been mine, Mike. Thank you for having me. Mike: Okay, big thanks to Abhishek for joining us and breaking down what it really means to learn Data Cloud. I think I picked up a few things in just that short bit of time. Now, whether you're prepping for a certification or just trying to make sense of new tech, I really think his story was a reminder that persistence pays off and that even you as a Salesforce admin don't need to have to figure it all out in one day. So be sure to catch his session if you're going to dream for us and share this episode with a fellow Salesforce admin maybe who's also struggling to understand some new technology or just getting started with Data Cloud. Either way, until next time, we'll see you in the cloud.

Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Denise Carbone, Director of Delivery at ImagineCRM. Join us as we chat about her journey from business analyst to external consultant admin and why AI makes BA skills even more valuable. You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Denise Carbone. Why business analyst skills are so important for AI Denise was working as a business analyst when she was first handed the keys to a Salesforce org. She remembers getting a plaque in the mail for being one of the first 500 people to become Salesforce certified. Obviously we've come a long way since then, but the skills needed to understand a business problem and map out the requirements for a solution haven't changed. As Denise explains, you have to be "process first, technology second." I sat down with her for this episode to find out how these BA skills are even more important with Agentforce. The power of asking why In order to really do your job well, an admin needs to be more than just an order taker. But if you're spending your time running through a list of requests without having conversations with users and really understanding the business process, well, that's a tough row to hoe. Instead, you need to ask why. That's where your business analyst skills come into play. You need to have a full understanding of how things currently work, where they could be improved, and who cares about it the most. Admins in the age of AI Another key business analyst skill is change management. You may have built the coolest solution in the world, but how do you get folks to actually use it? As Denise explains, if you want your solution to be adopted, you need to make it adaptive. As you're building, you need to keep going back to your users for input. If they feel like their feedback is a part of the process, they'll have ownership over the results. While Agentforce has greatly expanded what the platform can do, it's still just technology you're using to help solve a business problem. As long as you understand the why behind a request, you can build solutions that transform your organization. Be sure to listen to the full episode for more from Denise on business analyst best practices and the importance of establishing AI governance policies. And don't forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Salesforce Admins on the Trailhead Store Learn more Salesforce Admins Blog: Why Every Admin Should Adopt a Consulting Mindset Admin Trailblazers Group Admin Trailblazers Community Group Social Denise on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on X Mike on Bluesky social Mike on Threads Mike on X Full show transcript Mike: This week on the Salesforce Admins podcast, I'm joined by Denise Carbone, longtime admin, Salesforce MVP, and all-around champion of business analysis. We unpack her journey from BA to external admin through the power of asking why, and why AI makes those foundational skills more valuable than ever. So, whether you're like me and you've just figured out dependent picklists, or you're leading delivery teams, I promise Denise's insight on governance, process and career growth is a must-listen. So with that, let's get Denise on the podcast. So Denise, welcome to the podcast. Denise Carbone: Awesome. Thanks, Mike. I'm really happy to be here. Mike: I know, I've been to a whole bunch of Chicago user groups, I can't believe I haven't had you on the podcast. So, I've tipped the scale a little bit in your favor, but tell us how you got into the ecosystem and what you do in Chicago. Denise Carbone: Yeah. No, thank you. Thank you. Yes, longtime listener of the podcast so happy to be here. So, I actually started in the ecosystem in 2004. I was a BA turned external admin. I was working for a technology company in Chicago, and I was bestowed the ownership of our Salesforce platform. I was a BA operations kind of girl. I've done work in CRM systems like Goldmine and Act!, so really old system. So, when Salesforce was presented to me I wasn't totally intimidated. I knew it was a CRM platform, I just didn't know much about it. I will be honest, I did not fall immediately in love with it. Later on I found out why. It was not because of the platform or the technology, it was because of lack of governance and processes. So, when I was doing reporting and operational metrics and things weren't being presented, as the CEO was saying, as they wanted to see them, it turned out just a lack of the governance and the processes is what really caused those issues. So, I put my BA hat back on and went back to the team, and explained some of these points we had to clean up and just do better with some guidance, and some structure and rigor around using the tool in the platform me. And that was in 2004, so in 2006 I attended my first Chicago user group meeting. Completely intimidated. I had major imposter syndrome because I really didn't know much about the platform. Do I even belong here? But I needed to learn, I had that desire and curiosity to really build out my skill set. So, I got a little bit more comfortable in this ecosystem. And then, in 2008 I was presented an opportunity to help co-lead the group. The user group leader was moving on and actually going to work for Salesforce at that time, and left a vacancy in Chicago. So I said, "Yes, sure." At the time I agreed to helping co-lead the Metro Chicago area, so just anything in the city limits. And that same year I actually took the certification exam. So, in October of 2008 I was certified as an admin. So that solidified, put to rest slightly the imposter syndrome that I was carrying along, but felt really confident and good about that. And a few months later I received a plaque in the mail, I was one of the first 500 people globally to become Salesforce certified. Mike: Welcome to the club. Denise Carbone: Thank you. It was a really cool designation at the time, but yet looking back how many years later, I'm like, "Oh my God." And today with the number of certified professionals out there and all the different types of certifications available, it's a pretty cool little fun fact. So, I like to share that. And going into my career, and again, I was on the client side for the past, starting my career from 2004 on the client side, learning the platform, being that admin, external admin, utilizing my business analyst skills, always asking the questions of why. In 2013, I actually joined the MVP program, so super, again, imposter syndrome, why am I here? Appreciate all the peer support, love being there, but also completely intimidated. I wasn't sure if I belong, but it was a really cool opportunity for me to learn and grow, get to meet amazing people like yourself, Mike. Mike: Oh, thank you. Denise Carbone: And Steve Moe, actually, I was a huge fan of Steve's. Met him through the MVP program, became friends to date. The MVP program just helped me solidify my career and just learning journeys I think is where it helped me the most. In 2015 I took the leap over to the partner side, so I needed the opportunity to really stretch my skillset. Working on the client side, you really are focused on industry specific workflows and processes, your growth opportunities on the industry side, at least for me at that time, were a little bit limited. So, going over to the partner side was really an opportunity for me to stretch my skillsets in both BA and admin, working with clients, getting to know why they're building something and less about the how. So, one of my mantras I use all the time is it should always be process first and then technology second. I've seen situations where people love the shiny things and, "Oh, we can automate this and turn this on, and doesn't this look great?" And the design of the layout is, it's not intuitive, it's hard to follow. It doesn't make sense. It's over-automated, over-architected, over-engineered, so I always like to peel it back and ask the questions why, and get to learn more about the users, more about what we're trying to solve for. I love that journey, and when I joined the partner side I had the opportunity to really upskill myself in both BA, administration, and then just focused on delivery. So on the partner side today, I am a director of delivery. I stepped into a leadership role in the past 10 years. So, I started as a director of delivery in 2015 with a team of one. I was able to build a team of 14 people, which means I manage a team of consultants, and I am accountable for all of our project success. Today I'm in the same industry, work for a smaller SI. We are focused in the philanthropy space and also nonprofits. Again, I support a team of consultants and I am very client-facing. I work day-to-day with our teams, I meet with our clients, and I'm accountable for the overall project success. So, one of the things I really love about the job I do today is the coaching and the mentoring for learning and upskilling. In this space in the day and age that we're in today, things change fast. I remember last summer seeing a preview of the Dreamforce keynote where they're talking about agents, and being presented to us, and what do we think about this, and how does this work? I will say Salesforce has done an amazing job at providing enablement so that we can all start this learning journey, and you have to stay up to date with it because it changes, as you know, as the ecosystem knows, almost weekly. So, it's been fantastic. But today, again, I focus on project delivery with my teams, and upskilling, and supporting, and mentoring folks. Mike: Wow, you said a lot in all of that answer. So, I want to dig into what you're presenting at Dreamforce, but there was a theme in your answer that's come through on quite a few podcasts, which is imposter syndrome. Do you feel that a lot of admins get into their role because they weren't pursuing something in tech and they fell into it? Is that where you were feeling your imposter syndrome? And to be fair, I also want you to clarify, when you say BA you mean business analyst, right? Denise Carbone: Correct, yes. Business analyst. Mike: Okay. So I mean, you had a background in business analyst skills. That's not a skill to scoff at. What do you think was giving you the imposter syndrome? Denise Carbone: That's a great question. I think it was learning the technology and learning the platforms, I felt at the time when I fell into it, anything technology related you would be categorized as a developer, and it was very tech heavy. We used technology, we used business tools, but it was just a tool. I didn't have to learn the behind the scenes. So, I felt a little intimidated that we're learning the system, and I think the power of the platform, which really helped solidify my career and I think a lot of people's career back at that time was the clicks not code focus and everything that you're able to do declaratively. That was a huge lift for people's career. Obviously when I started back in 2004 I wasn't seeking out a role in the Salesforce ecosystem, and I'm using my air quotes here, because it wasn't really a thing. We didn't call it out at that time. It was a business tool, and it took you through a whole wave and phase of a career path. And today in this space, I think it was even maybe eight years ago when people were really talking about career transitions, and they wanted to get into the Salesforce ecosystem and they wanted to learn Salesforce, and it was definitely a shift in that learning and it became a career back in 2004. And I don't know about even yourself and folks, was that something people aim for? I think it started becoming a career path more towards maybe 2008, 9, 10, when certifications become more prevalent. Mike: I mean, I ask because I'm the similar path. I was hired to do something else, and along the way of improving business process Salesforce became vital. And so it was, "Well, I have to learn this because it's really at the crux of improving our business process." There's only so much I can do to suggest sales stages and stuff, but without the technology supporting it. And so yeah, I mean, I accidentally fell into it, and within easily a couple years I was like, "This is my full-time job." Denise Carbone: It does become full-time job, for sure. I think my skillset in being a business analyst, my superpower, if I'm getting asked that today what's my superpower, is being able to break down complexity and talk in layman terms. That is a huge, again, superpower, because I have this ability to hear and kind of visualize in my head a process flow chart. Like, "Okay, we start here." I always ask people if we're trying to elicit requirements and gather requirements, understand a day in the life of the X persona, "Walk me through your day," and they walk through stuff. And you start getting a visual and how you can build it, but outside of the technology is really getting to know their process and building out. Because sometimes people say, "Oh, this is so different. You've probably never seen this before." Well, some cases maybe because maybe really broken, or sometimes it's just they never took time to step a few steps back and optimize, make things more efficient. So, I love efficiencies, I love optimization, I love the ability to break down complexities, I love the ability to speak in layman terms. I think that's a learning that I've taken wholeheartedly through my journey because I can speak business speak, I don't want to speak Salesforce speak if the recipient on the other end doesn't speak Salesforce. So, I want to speak in a language that's going to be comfortable for them, and then break down the complexity and really help and work to build systems that are going to bring the client along for the journey. Mike: I feel like we've gotten a hell of a preview of your Dreamforce presentation. Because I don't know if admins always think, "Well, I'm doing business analysis," how do you look at business analysis maybe different than somebody that's never been formally trained? Denise Carbone: That's a great question, and this will definitely be part of my session, is I always ask why. There's been a mantra back in the admin world- Mike: Forever. Denise Carbone: Yeah, we're not order takers. We should ask the question on why. I've heard people say, "You should say no," but I would challenge that and say, "Well, ask why," because that is the root of what a business analyst is doing is they have this curiosity mindset where they are just like, "Well, why? Why do you do this? Have you ever considered this?" Just not saying no per se. I like to say, "Yes, and," but you give the options. Because you can do it, this, this or this, but what are the impacts of your decision if you go that route? So, I believe that admins inherently have some BA, business analyst built into their skills, it's just maybe they don't realize it yet, it's unrealized. But they actually do in a way, if they're asking what somebody wants, and they should also follow up with why. I think that should be the starting question honestly, and then go forward and then do the build if applicable. But it's definitely a learned skill. The other flip side to that is, I think there was, I've heard it before and it's so not true, that business analysts are not just note takers. They should never be a note taker. I mean, they can do documentation, but they're not glorified note takers. It's definitely a skillset where you talk about a user story, or a requirement, or use cases. Those are all three very separate things. And the reason why you do some of this documentation upfront is to make sure that what we're building as admins meet the technical requirements for the end user. Mike: What is your best advice for an admin to not be a note taker? Because I think when I first started, I knew improvements that needed to be done because I was in sales and I was working on sales. And so, very easily out of the box I was like, "Well, I know we need this. I know we need to track that." And then it quickly became my user seeing the change and offering for, "Well, can you add this? Can you add this? Can you add that?" And I think what I realized early on was I really wanted to appease my users right away. Like, "Oh yeah, absolutely I can do this." Or I remember the time, this is going to sound silly, I remember I figured out how to do dependent picklists, and let me tell you, I was like, "I can code the internet, because I can make a picklist where if you pick hot dogs it can say 'Red Hots,' and if you pick hamburgers it can say, 'Rare, medium, well.'" And I just thought I was the cat's pajamas. Denise Carbone: [inaudible 00:16:51] it was very powerful. Mike: Yeah. And then your users are like, "Well, can you make it do this?" I was like, "Yes, I can. Ha-ha. That's a dependent picklist." For a while all I wanted to build was dependent picklists. But how do you move from that to like, "No, I need to set a vision. I need to understand more of what's going on"? How do you make that your approach versus piling up a bunch of tickets? Denise Carbone: That's a great question. So, you want to make sure that it's going to be adopted, that we always talk about adoption in the space, and adapted, being adaptable to things and change. So, there's a whole change management aspect of what we do. I do believe that through the journey and empowering the admins, it's making sure, so partnering with the end user. I think it's on the consulting side we always say, "We're a partner," so we partner with our clients. It is a partnership because we can do the work but we need their input, and we want feedback. So, it's like a continuous feedback loop. So, we have a hybrid methodology in how we do things today, but it's definitely we will gather requirements, and get approval of these requirements, and do some build, and we build that. We break it up in sprints, maybe theme it out by certain features and functionality and present it back to the end user and get their feedback. "Does this work? Does this look good? Are we missing anything? Is there any key step that we did not capture?" It's really getting that buy-in as you're doing the build so that it can easily be adopted, and you're getting the feedback in the time where it's more real time. So, if it's features and functionalities that are, like you said, the bells and whistles of dependent picklists were amazing, but after a while it could become stale and they're not using it. The goal is, I always say less is more. You don't want to overkill something that's not going to be used. Even today I was talking to somebody earlier about utilizing a tool to be able to scan all the metadata and see all the unused fields that were created at one point in time that are just sitting out there and untouched for a long time. So, we have to get rid of that technical debt. So, my approach and my recommendation or suggestion is for people to really partner with who they're building it for so that they can get the buy-in, get feedback. "Does it work? What would you like to see? Does the user interface still, is that intuitive?" I feel like with the new Lightning design pages, Mike, we grew up on Classic, remember that? Mike: Oh, I know. We've called it a few other things too, like Aloha. But yeah, Classic. I remember describing to my users, Salesforce is like the Amazon interface because at the time Amazon had those tabs. The world has gotten away from tabs on websites now. Denise Carbone: They have. Mike: We're too fancy for that. Denise Carbone: When I log into something I'm like, "Wait, where do I go?" So, the intuitiveness of some of these apps and the design is escaping the newer, what's being published today. But it's really, you want to make sure whatever you're building is going to be usable, it's intuitive. All the things like practical foundational serum, best practices should always be applied, and I feel like it's really partnering with who you're building it for. And the business analyst aspect that feeds into the admin role is that why are you building it? What are you building? The how is always something, I don't necessarily know if the end users need to see behind the curtain for it, but you want to make sure that what you're building is, it works and it flows well. I always still laugh because it still comes up today, we don't want to do all these clicking. So, there's many magical ways to make things a lot faster than to do all these clickings. The automation tools that are available today on the platform are amazing, the flow automation is just next level. So, I feel like there's a lot of opportunity there to do really cool things, but you want to make sure the cool things are really going to support the folks that are going to use the platform. Mike: I couldn't agree more. So, let's talk about the cool things. AI is everywhere, and that's in your session. Denise Carbone: It is. Mike: So, let's talk about why. I mean, there's been a lot. There's always new features coming out with Salesforce, and sometimes we cover features too heavily but I feel like there's AI in everything. I was at a car dealer website the other day and they had an AI chatbot on the homepage. I was like, "Man, if car dealers got it, you know everybody's got it now." So, what makes it different for admins about why we need to learn and understand business and analyst skills in the age of AI? Denise Carbone: That is a great question. There's truly a distinction between our human skills and the strengths of AI. AI is definitely a tool. It can be your autonomous agent, it can support different tasks, but the human skills are and will always hopefully remain relevant in this space. Right now, humans bring to the table we can do critical thinking, we provide judgment. Most people have emotional intelligence. The thing about BAs too, I talk about, and I think this is a skill that crosses both the adaptability and growth mindset, we have to be able to think differently. As humans, we are, "Okay, so what's the new shiny thing out there? Do I need to learn this? How is it impacting the work I do today?" That statement I just said about, "Do I need to learn this? How does it impact the work today?" For me, just a full transparency, I did not need to learn how to actually build flows for a while. I needed to be able to document and explain what needed to happen based on a client's experience, or their workflow, or their processes. So, I would document processes and I would be able to document the heck out of how to explain or the build steps to create a flow. But I didn't have to be hands-on right away. I do know how to build flow and I can build flows, but it wasn't a skill that I had to learn because I was able to document that, write that, and I was able to articulate it well enough so that an admin or one of our builders was able to pick it up and run with it to build. But this day and age today with AI, it is here, it is not going away. It is not like a nice to learn later, it is if you don't know it or if you haven't started, you're already behind. And that's one of the pieces I really want to emphasize is that if you have, and I would beg to differ with the folks attending Dreamforce, if this is not on the radar, if they're not already in this learning journey, I'm sure a good majority of them are because it is so prevalent. But if they're not, they're already left behind. But I do feel that the human skills, storytelling, communication, ethnical reasoning, these are things that we bring to the table to it. Using AI, AI is really good at processing, data processing, or summarizing, maybe some automation. They're good at pattern recognition, but they're lacking certain human emotions, human elements that go into the work that we do today. Mike: I can agree with that. It's also fun if you ask it for things and it's like, "Yep, that sounds bad." And you're like, "No, you wouldn't understand." Denise Carbone: Yeah, one of another piece I'm going to hone in on a bit in the session is admin skills and BA skills are needed because you have to vet it. So many times I've seen people generate, the generative AI, I read this thing, I was like, "This is so AI generated." I'll go back to my team and I'm like, "All right, so here's my problem. What other sources did you reference this on? Is this validated? This to me," and I'll point out a spot, "This looks like a hallucination. Is this a real thing?" "I don't know." And I was like, "Well, you need to check that." Mike: Yeah. I was recently on a long road trip and some people in the car were scrolling through Facebook ads and stuff, and the one was like, "Oh, hey. Hey, I think I found one." And they read it and I go, "That was 100% generated by AI." It was describing some 1992 used car, and it said, "With a fresh battery for those cold starts on Iowa mornings." And I was like, "Anybody that's selling a $2,000 car probably doesn't have the copy editing skills to put that level of detail into the ad." So, yeah. Denise Carbone: Yeah, the description and the adjectives totally give it away. Mike: I mean, I am starting to get to the point where you look at an article and you're like, "That's AI generated," and I'll just give it to another AI and be like, "Just tell me what this says." So, great. And so, I have to think back that somewhere AI is sitting going, "Isn't it fun that the humans make us type all this stuff out and then the human make us decode all of our own stuff?" Denise Carbone: Probably, probably. It is a little humorous in what we ask it to do. I know someone that actually wanted constructive feedback on his code, so he fed, and he actually asked the bot or the agent to change his tone to be, I don't know, he called irrigate or snotty. So, he wanted to get the constructive feedback versus the, "Oh, this is great." So, it was pretty funny and it was actually a pretty fun read on some of the feedback, and there's a lot of experiments you can do with it. But yeah, in the end I think you really need to validate, at least from a solution perspective what it's doing. It's entertaining in some ways, but other ways you really need to validate against other true sources. Mike: So I'll end on, I hope it's not a hard question but it is something I'm curious about. Denise Carbone: Sure. Mike: As a business analyst, what is a question you ask now because of AI that you didn't ask before? Denise Carbone: That is a great question. One of the things we ask people or clients today is, "What is your AI policy?" And what that actually entails is also governance, because there's certain aspects of the platform that based on industry certain people not are allowed to use it. Or we have even some scenarios where we would use a Zoom recording and there's an AI summary function. Some people don't allow that. But actually when it comes to platform questions, it's relevant in that do you have a policy? You're thinking about a governance, there is a good 50-50 that don't and a good 50-50 that do. It's also what are your thoughts about using AI? Do you have any use cases today that you're thinking about using? We also recommend maybe AI readiness, which means do you have those use cases? Do you have policies or governance in place? How do you think you want to use AI? And then we can provide use case examples based on those responses, but those are the top few questions we ask. Mike: Yeah, I could understand that because otherwise everybody's just going to be, "Well, at this point I just have Bob," because I'm waiting for somebody to call AI Bob, "Generate this," and cool. So, isn't that your job? Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Denise Carbone: It is. Mike: Denise, I think your session at Dreamforce is going to be amazing. I hope you can get out into the user group world and share more BA skills with admins, because I want us to be more than order takers. And I say that for all of the personas, I don't think a developer should be an order taker or an architect. I mean, bring yourself into the role, and bring your knowledge and experience because that's what they hired you for, right? Denise Carbone: Yeah, for sure. No, I love it. And we have some really great BAs out there in the space, but I'm also happy to support and share knowledge, and just talk through these scenarios, because the work is not going away. It's only getting deeper. Mike: Right, I know. The work's not going away, it's just going to change. Denise Carbone: Right. Mike: Right? Thanks so much for being on the podcast. Denise Carbone: Awesome. Thank you, Mike. Mike: Big thanks to Denise for sharing her story and dropping some really insightful knowledge about the intersection of business analysis and admin work in the age of AI. And her message, ask why, build smart, and don't let imposter syndrome hold you back really resonates with me. Now, if you found this episode helpful, pass it along to a fellow Salesforce admin, or a teammate, or a friend maybe. Until next time, we'll see you in the cloud.

Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Nicole Pomponio, Director of Delivery Management and Operations at SaltClick. Join us as we chat about how admins can unlock the full potential of Slack in Salesforce. You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Nicole Pomponio. Why Slack is changing what it means to be an admin If you're planning on coming to Dreamforce this year (or catching it at home), you're probably going to hear a lot about new ways of combining Agentforce and Slack. That's why I'm excited I got a chance to sit down with Nicole for this episode and have a conversation about her Dreamforce presentation. Nicole is the Director of Delivery Management and Operations at SaltClick, a consultancy for Salesforce and Slack, so she's eager to find new ways to get the most out of both platforms. The ever-deepening integration between Salesforce and Slack means there are all sorts of new ways to connect users with data. As Nicole explains, all this means that the entire idea of what an admin can do is becoming more and more expansive. Getting organizational buy-in for Slack If your organization isn't using Slack, how do you get the buy-in you need to overcome inertia? And if you are using Slack, how do you get the most out of it? Nicole is an admin, but she's also a decision-maker at SaltClick, and when she puts on her leadership hat, she wants to hear about business problems and possible solutions. So the key to getting buy-in is to reposition Slack from something that sends messages to something that can solve real business problems. "I think the magic of Slack is that when you're using it and when you're using it right, it's easily adopted," Nicole says, "you don't have to sell it because when you use it, you showcase it." For example, identify how many meetings can be eliminated with a dedicated channel on Slack, or show how much you can simplify your team's workflow with the Jira integration. Tips, tricks, and best practices for Slack As Nicole explains, it's helpful to establish some rules of the road for how your organization will use Slack. Here are a few tips to get started: Have consistent naming conventions for channels. SaltClick uses prefixes to keep things organized: #ext for external channels, #int for internal channels, and #salt for fun stuff like #salt-babies. Let your users know how to organize things for themselves, especially how to leave or mute a channel that they don't need to use every day. Make a channel for dedicated Slack support, so you can quickly help folks who get stuck. Establish guidelines for what Slack etiquette means at your organization and any emojis you're using. Make space for fun, but mostly on a different channel from work. Make sure to check out Nicole's Dreamforce presentation, in-person or online. And don't forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you never miss an episode. Podcast swag Salesforce Admins on the Trailhead Store Learn more Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: What Can Salesforce Admins Do With Slack and Agents? Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: What Can Salesforce Admins Do with Slack Integrations? Salesforce Admins Blog: Slack and Salesforce: The Power of No-Code Automation Salesforce Admins Blog: Getting Started With Slack and Agentforce Integration Admin Trailblazers Group Admin Trailblazers Community Group Social Nicole on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on LinkedIn Salesforce Admins on X Mike on Bluesky social Mike on Threads Mike on X Full show transcript Mike: Slack-first doesn't have to mean Slack-only. And today's guest, Nicole Pomponio, tells us why. Nicole is the delivery and operations manager at SaltClick, and she's going to tell us, Salesforce admins, how we can unlock the full potential of Slack and Salesforce. In addition, Nicole shares her journey from accidental admin to leadership, and she gives us some insight into building intentional channel structure, integrating external platforms, like Jira, and reshaping the admin role in this new very connected era. So whether you're Slack-curious or already swimming in salty channels, you're going to walk away with some ideas you can use. And with that, let's get Nicole on the podcast. So Nicole, welcome to the podcast. Nicole Pomponio: Thank you so much for having me, Mike. Super excited to be here. Mike: I'm excited for everything that's coming up for Dreamforce. Last week we got done talking about navigating flow errors as an administrator, and the irony is I had to do a workshop and navigate my own flow error. So it's fortuitous the way things happen sometimes when you report a podcast. Nicole Pomponio: It was meant to be. It was meant to be. Mike: But Slack is a thing, and Slack's been a thing for a while, and you're going to present about Salesforce channels inside Slack. Before we talk about that, let's learn a little bit about you, Nicole. Tell us what you do in your everyday life and how you got into the Salesforce ecosystem. Nicole Pomponio: Absolutely. I have been in the Salesforce ecosystem for about 14 plus years. I stopped counting because it makes me feel old. Got started reporting, and it grew from there. I was lucky enough to become a solo accidental admin, and then the opportunities just spun up from there. My day-to-day life right now, I manage delivery and operations over at SaltClick. We're a consultancy for Salesforce and Slack, so I get to work with very bright people building out super fun solutions for customers and ourselves, and that's Salesforce and Slack together, which also gets me very excited. Mike: I reached the same kind of milestone where my Salesforce experience, somebody said, oh, it's old enough that it could have graduated from high school. Nicole Pomponio: Oh, ouch. Mike: Yeah, burn. Yours at least has a learner's permit. Nicole Pomponio: I'm almost driving, yeah. Mike: Right, almost driving. Nicole Pomponio: I'm almost driving. Mike: There's no segue to talk about Slack and driving. Things you shouldn't do while driving. Nicole Pomponio: There you go. Mike: Have your phone and use Slack. Why do admins need to discover channels in Slack? Nicole Pomponio: It's such a great timely question, Mike. For me, there's no better time because Slack is being positioned in front of Salesforce, and I know we just aged ourselves a little bit, but it's really the first time that I've seen that happen and seen it done in a really meaningful way. So from my perspective, we're starting to see a really close merge of Slack, this communication powerhouse, with Salesforce and having the ability to understand and navigate both right now is going to be such an amazing opportunity, and I think it starts to rewrite the narrative of what an admin is. Mike: Oh, how so? Nicole Pomponio: An admin, I think it's been changing over the years. If we look at what a Salesforce admin historically was, we're creating workflows, we're navigating some fields, some page layouts, and then we're growing from there. We're working with flows, and we're starting to dip our toe into becoming developers maybe, if we want to take that path. And now it's merging more with other platforms. As a Salesforce admin, I need to also understand connected platforms, how to maybe connect to different systems. So over the course of, I think rapidly the past three years, what an admin has been I think is no longer just those foundational Salesforce elements. It's really starting to evolve. So I see that happening too with Slack, so bridging the gap a little bit, expanding out to other systems. So I do think it's shifting, and Slack has helped shaping that. Mike: I mean, I always look at how many meetings are people in. And I remember when Salesforce required Slack. Of course, we had a lot of collaboration tools, and organizations have a lot of collaboration tools. With channels, does the collaboration tool become the channel, or how does it really narrowly define what some of the users are looking for in terms of supplemental data outside of what's on the record? Nicole Pomponio: That Slack channel, now merging with Salesforce, of course, we've got Salesforce channels, really is that collaboration. It's a point where teams are coming together. They're not having to wait for that weekly meeting. I'm not having to wait for my monthly meeting, my weekly meeting. I can work async in Slack, but all of that information is being condensed and surfaced in that Slack channel, so it's easier for us to find what we're looking for. Everything stays together. If we're using threads like we should, all of those answers are within one thread. We're seeing associated files. And now with Salesforce channels, we're seeing that Salesforce data as well in details tabs and related lists. Everything's right there surfaced and condensed for us, so it really creates an efficiency that I don't think we've seen before. Mike: Do you feel in terms of broadening the reach and looking at other platforms, I mean at Salesforce we look at Slack and Salesforce is really just the platform, how have you navigated working with others in your organization to integrate platforms into Salesforce? Nicole Pomponio: It's one of my favorite questions. Mike: Ooh. Nicole Pomponio: I love to bring things into Slack. I really want to, and this is a little bit selfish of me, I just want to be in Slack. I'm biased heavily here. So the more that I can bring in, I think the better it's going to be for me. But also our teams. We talk about Slack being our work operating system and wanting to do more in the flow of work, all these buzzwords and phrases we hear. What does that really mean? It's bringing those systems in, whether it's just the data or it's actually actions and connecting out too. So I think the example that is top of mind for me, because I'm in it constantly, is Jira. So I want to connect with Jira through Slack so that I can create issues, I can update issues. I just get things done faster with pulling in those external systems, the data, but now the actions too, right? Mike: Right. Nicole Pomponio: Which that gets me really excited because if we're talking about our agentic era, then if I start to think about the data that's available to me and the actions I could potentially do, I think natural next step is can I get an agent to do them for me? Which, if we're talking about efficiency, frees up my time for the higher level things. I love to spend my time with people. So I know that was a long way from connecting systems and bringing things in, but it becomes my favorite question because we can start to do so much when we connect systems that we're using every day and when we're actioning in those systems too. Mike: Well I, just for clarity's sake, I prefer the long scenic route of the answer, not the short, short route. Nicole Pomponio: Oh, good. Oh, good. Yeah, mine are long. Mike: Drive around the block, got to see everything, take the long way. Sunday afternoon cruise in the convertible. Nicole Pomponio: Perfect. Mike: So one question I have, and this goes back to maybe I was an admin in a different era, it sounds like your organization is bought in and your leadership is bought in to let's make Slack the interface for a lot of our work. Is that true? Nicole Pomponio: Yeah, we are Slack-first. Mike: Okay. Did you sell that vision or was that a consensus that came down from leadership that you embraced and get to work towards? Nicole Pomponio: I mean, Mike, I would love to take all of the credit for this. Sometimes I do. Just kidding. I don't. It's a top-down, bottom-up type of approach. I think the magic of Slack is that when you're using it and when you're using it right, it's easily adopted, and I don't have to sell it, if you will, because I use it, I showcase it, and then everyone sees the power of that. My favorite thing is the light bulb moments. So the more that we can do that, the easier that story becomes. But I will say when I started at SaltClick, it was almost three years ago, time flies, it was already heavily being used, and one of my predecessors was really starting to push on what is Slack, how can we use it? And I really gravitated toward that, so I just started to pick that up, training sessions for folks, really empowering people and pushing them to Slack's help articles because they're amazing. So it just became a natural conversation for us. And now it's people coming to me saying, hey, can we do this with Slack? I just posted something about Gearset and getting notifications and then linking out to pull requests to understand what's being validated, what's failing. That wasn't my idea. Shout out to Jacob on my team because he knows that we can use Slack for many different things, and he wants to make his own life easier. So it's become a natural conversation for us. What can we do in Slack, and how can we do it? People come to me with half-baked ideas. I love it, and then I just help get it to the finish line. I might have an idea I reach out to somebody about, but it is really all hands in on Slack. Mike: Okay, you win. You got the fun leadership. So let's play the opposite side of that coin. The admin's bought in, you, and you see the vision, you see the potential, but perhaps leadership, they're busy. They don't pay attention 24/7, like you do, to the innovation that's coming out of Salesforce and Slack. But you know your users and you know the pains and the gaps within the organization. What would your advice be for an admin that's maybe going to go to Dreamforce or maybe watched a YouTube video online about Slack or just knows that their organization has Slack, but it's like, to me it's like Slack's like a Ferrari and you use it to go to the store and buy a gallon of milk every week and you don't use it to its full potential. What would your advice be for those admins to get the organization to flip to where you are at? Nicole Pomponio: I think that's such a great question. And just to be fair for the previous question, I am on our leadership team, so that was- Mike: So you have sway there too. Nicole Pomponio: ...it's an unfair advantage for me. But if I put my leadership hat on, what I'm looking for is not just the problem but the solution. So for folks that are trying to navigate, well, how do I really showcase this, it's really difficult sometimes to get enough data to show ROI. But if you go to leaders in your organization, you say, hey, I see this problem. I think that Slack can solve this for us, can fill this gap, here's how we could do it, I don't know many leaders that would just say, hard pass. I don't want to even look at that. I think taking that initiative would really show that you're invested and showing the solution to that problem I think would be phenomenal. I think as leaders we tend to see problems and we have potential solutions, but we really want input and buy-in from the people that are using the tools, right? Mike: Right. Nicole Pomponio: It shouldn't just be the Nicole show. I want to definitely understand that it's going to add value for folks. So if you are one of those people that are really trying to showcase what Slack can do, I would suggest going to Slack sessions at Dreamforce. I would suggest joining the Slack community and making some friends in there. I'll definitely say hi to you, but really poke around at here's a problem I'm trying to solve, what's a way I could do it With Slack? I know I would be willing to help folks, but anyone in the community would be willing to help too. And I bet you, in some of the sessions that you're going to, you're going to see a lot of use cases and a lot of ways to solve those problems. So that's what comes to mind for me when I think, how do I reposition this tool that might just be seen as a way to send messages to something that can actually solve some business problems for us. Mike: I mean, I've felt that way. So you opened up a whole other can of questions when you said you're on leadership. I think that's incredibly awesome that you're a Salesforce admin and you're in leadership. For admins that aren't in leadership, was this just the way that your organization operates, the admin is part of leadership, or how did you get that seat at the table? Nicole Pomponio: Such a great question. Many of your questions are great questions. Mike: I try really hard. I'm thinking of hosting a podcast where I ask questions. What do you think? Nicole Pomponio: I think this would be a great journey for you [inaudible 00:14:58]. Mike: Okay, we'll see how it works out. Nicole Pomponio: I think in our organization I have the flexibility and opportunity to be the Slack owner as well as participate in being that Salesforce admin as well. It's a shared responsibility, so it's not just me doing it. But because of the experiences I've had, not only being a Salesforce admin, being a Salesforce BA, being the doer and the navigator in different business units in my past life, I've been able to take that with me wherever I go. So it is a gift that I'm able to bring at SaltClick to be able to do multiple things, but I really enjoy coaching others on that too. So for me in leadership, it's been very powerful because I can understand how we can use our systems to really solve our business needs. And again, SaltClick gives me the opportunity to continue to do the things that bring me joy. Mike: That's a really good, really good answer. See good questions, good answers. On the subject of Slack, because I'd love to know, how often do you communicate with your users broadly? Do you have a dedicated Slack channel? Do you run help through Slack? Is there a place for them to ask questions? How do you run user engagement on your end? Nicole Pomponio: So from the SaltClick lens, we have fun channels. We have learning channels, training channels. We have chit-chat channels. We all have some salty channels as well because we like to have fun. We have Salty Babies and Salty Pets. I'm a jokester, and I can't help but bring corny jokes into every aspect of my life. And then as a Slack community group leader, I have a channel in our Slack workspace as well. So from the Slack community lens, the engagement there is really answering questions that come in. Sometimes you're going to get a meme. Sometimes you'll get some help articles and some directions and a path forward. And it's really posting consistently there to help people understand that you're there for them, that you can bring them information in the flow of their lives that's going to help them. On the SaltClick side, it really is about trying to organize because I did some kind of research pretty recently to understand how many channels are we in, how many messages and files and all kinds of stuff are we sending around. It's a lot. I think on average people are in 100 or 200 channels, so the noise can become pretty robust. You want to try and organize that and make it meaningful. So really helping navigate with channel descriptions. What are we even doing in this channel, what's our goal, what can you expect? Letting people know that they don't have to be in a channel. They can exit it. They can leave. They can set their own notifications. I really like to advocate for not only the way that we have our channels set up, but the way that they can help themselves in that experience as well. But we have all kinds of fun. I think my favorite is probably the Salty Babies one. Mike: I won't dig into that because who knows where that goes. I would like to know because, and we have this a little bit at Salesforce, did you enforce or did you... Enforce sounds bad. I don't have a different word for it. Parameter, I don't know, fence. Did you put out guidelines? That feels the best. Nicole Pomponio: Guidelines feels right. Mike: You put out guidelines. Guidepost, yeah. Because people can name channels whatever they want, did you put out a naming thing so that people know... You mentioned salty channels and chit-chat channels, and boy, say that one five times fast. Nicole Pomponio: I can't. I can't. Mike: I will. I'll just get myself kicked off the air. And work channels, and we have that at Salesforce too, did you put out a guide and get leadership, I mean, you're on leadership, but a corporate understanding of here's how we should name things so that people can easily quantify stuff? Nicole Pomponio: Yes. You want to have some pretty solid channel naming conventions to help people organize their day and to make it easier to find things. So I did mention the Salty Babies channel. The fun ones could start with Salty. They could start with Fun, but you want to make sure that you are outlining what those are for your teams and that you're building out some Slack etiquette. But thinking about too not only our internal channels, our external ones as well. Mike: Oh. Nicole Pomponio: So yes, we don't want to confuse ourselves or our vendors or customers, so. And I'm sure you know, you might be in many different channels. And you have an external channel, you want to quickly know that it's external, so putting ext in the front of it is definitely helpful for your eye to make sure you understand you're posting something in the right location. And then if it's internal, putting an int in front of it. And then we did develop a standard naming convention for our project channels because again, we are Slack-first. So we are running our projects through Slack, and then we have our customers in Slack channels as well. So we wanted to define what those naming conventions were so that we could organize ourselves a lot more efficiently. And then we also think about too what should go in that channel. Should there be a canvas or not? So not only are we thinking about standard naming conventions for channels, we're also thinking about what would add value right there in the channel. So if I have a canvas for a project, what should I have in that canvas? If I have a canvas and a DM with one of my direct reports, what should I have in that canvas to make it meaningful? So in my mind, it's definitely thinking about the structures of the channels, how we're using Slack, what our etiquette is for each other. And even things like defining the emojis that you use. A thumbs up or thumbs down could mean something else to someone. I like to give the example of my parents texting one another back and forth. My mom sent a long paragraph to my dad, and then his response was a thumbs up, but we probably had a good five-minute conversation around what his thumbs up meant. Was it a good thumbs up? Was it a sarcastic thumbs up? So defining what your emojis mean could avoid some confusion down the line. Mike: Yeah, I would agree. There's a few channels that, well, we have one internally on the admin team, and we use an emoji just to recognize or put your hand up for something, and I never realized how many different hands there were as emojis. Because it also kicks off a workflow that like, hey, so-and-so said, yes, and they would do this. And I'm like, I put my hand up. Why didn't the workflow fire? Oh, I used the wrong hand. I used hand two instead of hand one. Nicole Pomponio: There are a lot. There are a lot. And then you can make your own custom emojis. That can get real. Mike: Oh, well, that's a requirement on my team. Everybody has to have their own emoji. Nicole Pomponio: You have to have it. I love that. Mike: And I'm blessed enough somebody made one of me giving a thumbs up, so I got both. Nicole Pomponio: Nice. Mike: I got me and a thumbs up. Nicole Pomponio: That's awesome. Mike: Last question. For all of the stuff that you're working on for Salesforce, for Dreamforce... Sorry, so many forces. I'm sure it'll be Slackforce, right? Nicole Pomponio: It could be. Mike: If admins were listening to this and they had to go what's one reason I need to talk to my leadership about Slack and why because I heard it from Nicole, what would that answer be? Nicole Pomponio: My gosh, Mike, no pressure. Mike: No, none. Nicole Pomponio: I truly believe that we are going to continue to see an evolution of the integration between Slack and Salesforce. It feels like we're on the arc, we're on that path, right? Mike: Uh-huh. Nicole Pomponio: Purchased in 2021, started to hear some rumors about things being connected, started to see it happen. We've got Salesforce channels. We have to be empowered to understand what we can do with both systems. And the best way to do that is to immerse yourself in at least three days of sessions heavily centered around what you can do with Slack, what you can do with Salesforce, and what you can do by combining them. I think it is the perfect opportunity. I was at TDX and started to hear a lot of Salesforce people asking, what's up with Slack, what can we do there? A lot of people are starting to join the Slack community. It's the perfect time. And I think with how fast things are changing, I don't want anyone to get left behind. I don't want them to feel like they're being left behind, certainly not anyone's company. So I think, for me, it's really, really being at this point of being able to understand both and connect them. Mike: Well, I think that's very, very solid reasoning right there. I can't think of anything better. Nicole Pomponio: It feels right. I feel like anyone would say yes to that. Mike: I mean, it's also one of those pretty obvious things. AI is a very conversational tool, and so is Slack. Nicole Pomponio: Yes. Mike: It's made for each other. Nicole Pomponio: I think so. I want an agent right in there chatting with me helping me with my day. Mike: I would love. I'm a fan of Marvel. One of these days I'm going to get my own assistant. Nicole Pomponio: Yes, yes. Mike: And it fires up, "Good morning, Mike." Nicole Pomponio: I want my own J.A.R.V.I.S. I wouldn't name them J.A.R.V.I.S., but- Mike: Oh, I would totally name them J.A.R.V.I.S., and I expect him to have a British accent because it sounds just very proper. But yes, open up my shades, tell me what the weather's going to be in my first meeting and summarize the urgency of Slack messages that I got. That's what I want. Nicole Pomponio: I don't think we're asking for too much. Mike: No. I mean, we were supposed to have flying cars by now. Nicole Pomponio: Yes. Mike: So... Nicole Pomponio: The least we can do is have a Slack agent that could do work around our house. Mike: That speaks in a British voice. Nicole Pomponio: Yes. Mike: Cool. Thanks, Nicole, for coming on the podcast. I appreciate it. Nicole Pomponio: Thank you so much for the opportunity. Mike: Big thanks to Nicole for sharing how she's leading with Slack and evolving the admin role along the way. I really love the fact that she is an admin for multiple platforms and has leadership in leadership at her organization. It's great to hear from her how she's building smart channel conversations and also, yes, finding that seat at the table. I don't know about you, but I got a lot of strategy. I got a ton of inspiration out of this episode. Now I know not everybody's headed to Dreamforce, but if you are, I hope this session got you excited for some of the content that's out there. If you're not, that's okay. There is a ton of content on Slack, on both Trailhead, on our YouTube channels. You're not going to miss out. We'll also broadcast a whole bunch of this. I do believe Nicole's session will probably also be online, so I'll just let that out as a sneak peek. Now, if you learned something new or you enjoyed this episode, do me a favor, share it with somebody, promote it on social, spread the word. Let other admins find some of this great content that you enjoy listening to. And with that, until next time, I'll see you in the cloud.