Joel Hawksley, a Staff Software Engineer at GitHub specializing in accessibility and frontend architecture, shares valuable insights on the hidden costs of frontend complexity. He emphasizes the importance of changeability in well-maintained software. The conversation dives into GitHub's approach to accessibility as both a business and legal imperative. Hawksley discusses the paradox of design consistency versus the need for flexibility in their extensive design system and advocates for using off-the-shelf components to ease complexities for smaller teams.

Austin Story, Senior Engineering Director at Doximity, dives into the art of creating maintainable software. He discusses critical traits like testability and simplicity, along with the principle of YAGNI that ensures only necessary features are built. Austin shares insights on migrating to a federated GraphQL architecture from a monolith, addressing both benefits and challenges. He emphasizes the importance of collaboration between data and application teams, using tools like Kafka, to enhance workflow efficiency. Tune in for a masterclass on software evolution!

Topics CoveredCharacteristics of Maintainable SoftwareDan emphasizes the importance of internal consistency in codebases, automated tests, and proper documentation to preserve decision-making context.[00:05:32] Internal consistency: Why it matters.[00:08:09] Lessons from maintaining legacy codebases.Working with Legacy SystemsDan shares stories of upgrading ORM frameworks, introducing caching systems, and transitioning to bug tracking tools.[00:09:52] Replacing custom ORM systems with Hibernate and Ehcache.[00:13:10] Tackling high-risk components with automated testing.Modern Authentication ChallengesAs part of FusionAuth, Dan discusses building developer-friendly tools that balance local flexibility with SaaS convenience.[00:21:05] FusionAuth’s role in secure authentication.[00:28:13] Testing authentication flows locally and in CI pipelines.Navigating Constraints in TeamsAdvice for managing technical debt, advocating for team priorities, and communicating with stakeholders during lean times.[00:16:39] Communicating the impact of resource constraints.[00:19:27] Tracing single requests to understand complex systems.Industry Trends and AI's RoleFrom managed services to the impact of AI on coding languages, Dan reflects on how the industry continues to evolve.[00:35:05] Managed services as accelerators for maintainability.[00:41:25] The potential and limits of AI in software development.Key TakeawaysConsistency and documentation in codebases reduce cognitive overhead for developers.Understand how your software fits into the business to prioritize effectively.AI might reshape the industry, but it won’t replace the need for thoughtful problem-solving.Opinionated frameworks like Ruby on Rails continue to offer exceptional developer ergonomics.Resources MentionedFusionAuth BlogDan's Personal BlogCIAM Weekly NewsletterDan’s Book: Letters to a New DeveloperZen and the Art of Motorcycle MaintenanceThe Asimov story mentionedTry FusionAuthDownload FusionAuth: Get started with the self-hosted version today.Free Trial of FusionAuth: Experience the FusionAuth cloud for free!Connect with DanLinkedInBlueSkyThanks to Our Sponsor!Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error-tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and other frameworks.It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Use the code maintainable to get a 10% discount for your first year. Check them out! Subscribe to Maintainable on:Apple PodcastsSpotifyOr search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.

In this episode of Maintainable, Robby speaks with Tom Johnson, Co-Founder and CEO of Multiplayer. Tom shares his perspectives on the evolving landscape of distributed systems, the challenges of maintaining legacy software, and how innovative tools are transforming the way teams collaborate.Topics DiscussedCharacteristics of well-maintained software, from system-level documentation to effective workflows.The importance of debugging tools tailored for distributed systems.Anecdotes about managing technical debt, including cutting off a CEO’s database access.How auto-documentation and design branches in Multiplayer streamline team collaboration.Practical strategies for tackling technical debt and fostering developer morale.Key Takeaways[00:01:16] Defining Well-Maintained Software: Tom explains why documentation, tests, and collaborative workflows are essential.[00:06:14] The Case for Locking Down Production: Lessons learned from a humorous but cautionary tale.[00:18:11] Debugging Distributed Systems: How Multiplayer’s tools simplify the debugging process.[00:25:00] Design Branches and Team Collaboration: Enhancing communication through shared documentation.[00:31:39] Prioritizing Technical Debt: Identifying customer and developer pain points.Resources MentionedMultiplayerTom Johnson on LinkedInTom Johnson on TwitterBook Recommendation: Making Comics by Scott McCloudThanks to Our Sponsor!Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error-tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and other frameworks.It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Use the code maintainable to get a 10% discount for your first year. Check them out! Subscribe to Maintainable on:Apple PodcastsSpotifyOr search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.

In this episode of Maintainable, Robby speaks with Gulcin Yildirim Jelinek, a Staff Database Engineer at Xata. Joining from Prague, Czech Republic, Gulcin discusses her experiences working with legacy databases, the evolution of Postgres, and her passion for building accessible tech communities.Gulcin shares practical insights into modern database management, including the rise of automation tools like YAML and Pgroll, as well as how extensions like pgvector are unlocking new possibilities for Postgres users. Her work with the Prague PostgreSQL Meetup and Diva Conference highlights her dedication to fostering inclusive and welcoming tech communities.Episode Highlights[00:05:32] What Makes Databases Maintainable? Gulcin reflects on documentation, onboarding, and usability.[00:15:10] From Legacy to Modern: Challenges with legacy systems in hospitals and banks and the transition to Postgres.[00:22:18] Pgvector and Vector Search: Introducing Postgres extensions to enable vector-based queries.[00:28:12] Scaling Automation with YAML: How YAML transformed database management and DevOps workflows.[00:33:00] Fostering Community and Accessibility: Gulcin’s work with Postgres Europe and Diva Conference.[00:36:15] Mythology with a Twist: Book recommendations featuring Circe and Elektra.Key TakeawaysDocumentation Matters: A well-documented system ensures effective onboarding for both developers and end-users.Automation is Key: Tools like YAML and Pgroll streamline database operations, minimizing downtime and manual intervention.Inclusivity in Tech: Conferences and communities should prioritize accessibility, from catering to translation services.Vector Databases in Postgres: Pgvector is making Postgres a viable option for AI-driven workloads, eliminating the need for separate systems.Resources MentionedXata BlogPgrollPrague PostgreSQL MeetupDiva: Dive into AI ConferenceKadin Yazilimci (Women Developers of Turkey)Circe by Madeline MillerElektra by Jennifer SaintConnect with GulcinLinkedInPrague PostgreSQL MeetupDiva ConferenceBook Recommendations:CirceElektraLinks:Kadin Yazilimci (Women Developers of Turkey)Diva: Dive into AI ConferencePrague PostgreSQL MeetupOn XXata BlogPgrollThanks to Our Sponsor!Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error-tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and other frameworks.It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Use the code maintainable to get a 10% discount for your first year. Check them out! Subscribe to Maintainable on:Apple PodcastsSpotifyOr search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.

Robby sits down with Justine Gehring, an AI Research Engineer at Moderne, to explore how AI tools are transforming code maintenance and scalability. They dive into the unique ways AI can support refactoring for massive and legacy codebases, from retrieval-augmented generation (RAG) to lossless semantic trees, and discuss how developers can benefit from AI-assisted planning and refactoring.Justine shares her background transitioning from academia to industry and reflects on the essential role of reproducibility in AI, why maintainable code is often overlooked in research, and the challenges of balancing innovation with real-world reliability in software projects.Topics DiscussedWhat Makes Software Maintainable: Justine’s take on good documentation, reusable code, and ensuring new team members can quickly navigate a codebase. [00:00:42]Academia vs. Industry in Code Maintainability: Why reproducibility and code maintenance often diverge in research settings, and how industry standards address this gap. [00:01:14]From Academia to AI Engineering: Justine shares her journey and how her background in machine learning led to a career in AI-focused software maintenance. [00:04:48]Scaling Refactoring with OpenRewrite: An introduction to OpenRewrite, the open-source tool that facilitates large-scale code transformations, developed by Moderne. [00:12:15]Lossless Semantic Trees: The benefits of LSTs for detailed code analysis, retaining essential syntax and type information critical for reliable AI refactoring. [00:20:24]Retrieval-Augmented Generation (RAG): Justine explains RAG’s significance in allowing AI models to provide context-specific responses without heavy re-training. [00:26:00]Trust and Validation in AI-Generated Code: The importance of robust test cases and human oversight when leveraging AI-generated code to avoid cascading errors. [00:31:36]AI as a Planning Tool for Refactoring Projects: Justine’s insights on using AI as a collaborative coding assistant, offering developers suggestions for planning refactoring and maintenance tasks. [00:35:24]Real-World Example of Scaling Refactoring: Justine recounts a case study where Moderne used OpenRewrite to facilitate large-scale code migration involving multiple frameworks. [00:42:00]Advocating for AI Tools in Code Maintenance: Tips for developers interested in introducing AI tools and approaches within their teams or organizations. [00:42:31]Key TakeawaysAI Supports Reproducibility and Reliability: Ensuring reproducibility in AI-driven tools can enhance both credibility and usability for complex codebases.Prioritize Planning Before Refactoring: Understanding code dependencies and structure is key to successful refactoring; AI tools like OpenRewrite can automate targeted changes.Human Expertise Remains Essential: AI can be an effective coding assistant, but human oversight is necessary to ensure accuracy and quality.Experiment and Scale: Start with small, impactful AI-assisted refactoring recipes and scale up once the process is reliable, saving significant development hours over time.ResourcesModerneJustine Gehring’s LinkedInOpenRewrite DocumentationGetting to Yes by Roger Fisher and William UryThanks to Our Sponsor!Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error-tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and other frameworks.It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Use the code maintainable to get a 10% discount for your first year. Check them out! Subscribe to Maintainable on:Apple PodcastsSpotifyOr search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.

As a product advocate at Nx, Katerina Skroumpelou combines her engineering skills with a knack for connecting with clients. In this episode, she shares how clear documentation, scalable architectures, and a collaborative culture can transform software development for the better.Key Takeaways[00:01:25] Katerina’s Background: Robby and Katerina discuss her career journey, starting in engineering and recently moving into product advocacy.[00:02:29] Characteristics of Well-Maintained Software: Katerina highlights key aspects of maintainable software—readability, scalability, and reliability.[00:04:39] Product Advocacy at Nx: Katerina describes her unique role, bridging technical support and customer outreach to ensure clients make the most of Nx tools.[00:07:01] White Glove Approach: The “white glove” service approach allows Katerina to dive deep into clients' codebases, offering a hands-on approach to using Nx effectively.[00:09:52] Scalable Documentation Practices: Balancing clarity and detail, Katerina provides tips on structuring code comments and READMEs to be concise yet thorough.[00:12:09] Managing Technical Debt: Robby and Katerina discuss the importance of keeping code up-to-date and scalable, especially in large systems with high demands.[00:16:00] The Importance of Collaboration: Moving from solo work to team-based code reviews taught Katerina the value of a collaborative approach to maintainable code.[00:19:15] Nx’s Monorepo Solution: How Nx provides cache and build tools to optimize mono-repo performance, boosting both speed and organization within projects.[00:22:12] Nx Cloud and CI: Katerina discusses Nx Cloud’s role in enhancing CI workflows by allowing parallel tasks and cache sharing across teams.[00:24:07] When to Consider Monorepos: Katerina explains the benefits of monorepos for organizing codebases and improving scalability.[00:26:37] AI Tools in Development: Katerina shares her enthusiasm for new AI tools like StackBlitz’s Bolt and their potential to streamline app development.[00:29:00] Finding Motivation at Work: Advice for developers who feel stuck or unmotivated in their current roles and ways to reconnect with the work they enjoy.Resources MentionedNx DevStackBlitz Bolt.newBooks:The Three-Body Problem by Cixin LiuCryptonomicon by Neal StephensonSlaughterhouse-Five by Kurt VonnegutKaterina's social profiles:LinkedInTwitterBlueskyThanks to Our Sponsor!Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error-tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and other frameworks.It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Use the code maintainable to get a 10% discount for your first year. Check them out! Subscribe to Maintainable on:Apple PodcastsSpotifyOr search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.

Welcome to another engaging episode of the Maintainable Software Podcast! In this episode, Robby sits down with Moriel Schottlender, Principal Software Engineer at the Wikimedia Foundation, to explore the complex journey of modernizing MediaWiki, the software behind Wikipedia. Moriel shares her insights on what it takes to keep an enormous monolithic codebase maintainable while supporting an ever-growing and diverse set of global users. She highlights the importance of modularization, ownership, and the delicate balance between flexibility and stability in open-source software.Key Takeaways[00:00:51] Characteristics of Well-Maintained Software: Moriel discusses the three crucial characteristics of well-maintained software: ownership, modularization, and documentation.[00:01:09] Ownership and Rules for Contribution: Ownership goes beyond just fixing bugs—it involves understanding the architectural purpose and maintaining consistency even as teams change.[00:03:35] Product Vision's Role in Maintainability: Why a clear product vision is essential for maintaining software, even in the face of organic growth.[00:07:14] Balancing Experimentation and Long-Term Planning: Moriel shares insights into how Wikimedia balances rapid experimentation with careful, long-term architectural planning.[00:07:32] The Evolution of MediaWiki: MediaWiki's growth from a small project to the backbone of Wikipedia, now supporting over 900 wikis, and the challenges that come with scaling.[00:14:18] Modernizing a 23-Year-Old Monolith: Robby and Moriel dive into the challenges of modernizing MediaWiki’s architecture, including the difficulties of updating a monolithic structure.[00:17:15]Wikitext vs. Markdown: Moriel explains why MediaWiki uses its own Wikitext language instead of Markdown and the unique challenges it presents.[00:22:25] Architectural Flexibility for the Future: The importance of having a flexible architecture that can adapt to the evolving needs of users and technologies.[00:26:04] Technical Debt and Modularization: How Wikimedia approaches technical debt in MediaWiki and prioritizes architectural interventions to improve modularity and maintainability.[00:39:00] Community Contributions to MediaWiki: Strategies for increasing developer contributions and how Wikimedia empowers volunteers while maintaining software quality.[00:41:59] Advice for Aspiring Open Source Contributors: Moriel shares encouraging words for anyone looking to contribute to open-source projects, emphasizing that everyone can make a meaningful impact.[00:35:44] The Role of Documentation: Moriel discusses Wikimedia's efforts to improve documentation and ensure it's useful for both developers and end-users, leveraging the strengths of wiki-based contributions.[00:30:29] Celebrating Small Wins: Moriel talks about how Wikimedia celebrates small victories to keep team morale high in the face of big challenges.Resources MentionedMoriel's WebsiteMoriel on MastodonMediaWiki DocumentationBook Recommendation:Year Zero by Rob ReidConnect with MorielMoriel on LinkedInInstagramTwitterGitHubMastodonThanks to Our Sponsor!Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error-tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and other frameworks.It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Use the code maintainable to get a 10% discount for your first year. Check them out! Subscribe to Maintainable on:Apple PodcastsSpotifyOr search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.

Welcome to another engaging episode of Maintainable! Robby sits down with Kate Holterhoff, Ph.D., a Senior Analyst at RedMonk and former front-end engineer, to explore the intricate world of software maintenance, documentation, and the future of developer roles. Kate brings her unique perspective from her time as a practitioner at a digital marketing agency, her academic background, and her current role in developer advocacy.Topics Explored[00:00:00] Introduction to Kate's Background: Robby and Kate discuss her journey from academia to front-end engineering and now to being a Senior Analyst at RedMonk. Kate shares how her experiences have shaped her perspective on software maintenance.[00:04:00] Well-Maintained Software: Kate dives into her definition of well-maintained software, emphasizing modularity, semantic readability, and the importance of considering future developers who will interact with the code.[00:11:30] The Challenges of Agency Work: Kate reflects on her time at a digital marketing agency, where she often worked on projects that had passed through many hands. She discusses the importance of balancing quick deliverables with maintainability.[00:20:45] The Role of Documentation: Kate shares insights on the value of documentation for distributed teams, highlighting her experience organizing documentation sessions ("documentation paloozas") to capture team knowledge and ensure maintainability.[00:30:00] RedMonk and Developer Advocacy: Kate explains her role at RedMonk and how the firm differs from traditional analyst firms like Gartner. She discusses RedMonk's focus on developers as key decision-makers in the tech landscape.[00:39:15] Front-End Developers as Kingmakers: Robby and Kate explore how front-end engineers are increasingly influencing the adoption of tools and technologies within organizations. Kate describes this trend as front-end developers becoming "kingmakers" in the industry.[00:49:50] AI and Developer Tools: Kate discusses the integration of AI into developer tools, the potential benefits, and challenges for junior developers. She emphasizes the importance of understanding how to read code in an AI-assisted world.Key Takeaways:Emphasize modularity and semantic readability to ensure code can be easily maintained by future developers.Documentation is crucial for maintainability, especially in distributed and contractor-heavy teams.Front-end developers are becoming key decision-makers, influencing tool and technology adoption.AI is increasingly integrated into developer workflows, making it essential for developers to focus on reading and understanding code.The definition of a 'developer' is evolving, with more abstracted tools and AI playing a larger role in development processes.Resources Mentioned:RedMonkKate Holterhoff on LinkedInKate Holterhoff on TwitterDarwin's The Origin of SpeciesEpisode Highlights:[00:00:00] Introduction to Kate's Background[00:04:00] Characteristics of Well-Maintained Software[00:20:45] The Importance of Documentation[00:30:00] What Does a Senior Analyst at RedMonk Do?[00:39:15] Front-End Developers as Kingmakers[00:49:50] The Role of AI in Developer ToolsThanks to Our Sponsor!Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error-tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and other frameworks.It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Use the code maintainable to get a 10% discount for your first year. Check them out! Subscribe to Maintainable on:Apple PodcastsSpotifyOr search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.

Alan Ridlehoover: Building Robust Systems Through Behavior-Centric TestingIn this episode of Maintainable, Robby speaks with Alan Ridlehoover, Senior Engineering Manager at Cisco Meraki. Alan shares his perspective on building well-maintained software by focusing on behavior-centric testing, clear code ownership, and thoughtful technical decisions that stand the test of time.Alan discusses his experience working in both startup environments and large-scale engineering teams, including how he navigates the unique challenges of each. He provides practical advice on managing conditional logic in code, scaling with third-party dependencies, and ensuring that testing strategies remain effective as systems grow in complexity.Key Takeaways:The characteristics of well-maintained software: behavior-centric testing, solid code principles, and ownership boundaries.Balancing the needs of startups vs. large enterprises when it comes to software maintenance.Alan’s approach to handling conditional logic with a technique called "rehydration" to simplify complex code.Why focusing on behavior, not implementation, is critical for scalable, maintainable tests.The importance of interfaces and facades for managing third-party dependencies and future scalability.How to approach technical debt as a conscious trade-off, not an inevitable burden.Best practices for addressing flaky tests, including managing non-determinism, order dependencies, and race conditions.How to set up effective monitoring and alerting systems to maintain a healthy software environment.The role of team structure and product ownership in delivering sustainable, high-quality software.Episode Highlights:[00:05:32] Introduction to the Guest's Background: Robby and Alan discuss Alan's work at Cisco Meraki and his approach to well-maintained software.[00:15:10] The Importance of Behavior-Centric Testing: Alan explains why focusing on behavior, not implementation, helps in both startups and large-scale environments.[00:24:30] Rehydration: A Strategy for Managing Conditional Logic in Code: Alan shares his method for simplifying code with many conditionals.[00:35:00] Navigating Technical Debt: Alan offers advice on how to strategically manage technical debt without slowing down business needs.[00:45:18] Monitoring and Alerting: Alan’s tips on keeping systems healthy and avoiding customer-facing issues through smart monitoring setups.Resources Mentioned:Radical Candor by Kim ScottThe Code GardenerConnect with Alan Ridlehoover:LinkedInThe Code Gardener BlogThanks to Our Sponsor!Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error-tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and other frameworks.It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications.Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Use the code maintainable to get a 10% discount for your first year. Check them out! Subscribe to Maintainable on:Apple PodcastsSpotifyOr search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.