The Glenn Show

John McWhorter is back for our first conversation of 2022. Let’s get into it!We begin by discussing the death of the groundbreaking black actor Sidney Poitier. Portier was best known for his roles in films like The Defiant Ones, Lilies of the Field, In the Heat of the Night, and Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner. John puts forward the fascinating theory that Poitier’s Caribbean origins and mannerisms made him acceptable to white American audiences who were unaccustomed to seeing black men in dramatic leading roles. We also recently lost the legal scholar Lani Guinier, who was involved in a political controversy in the ‘90s when Bill Clinton nominated her for Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights and then pulled the nomination after receiving political pressure from the right. Though Lani and I were on different ends of the political spectrum, she was an important legal thinker, and I think what happened to her was terribly unfair. Of course, while her views were controversial then, John and I note that they’re widely accepted now. We then go on to discuss a question it hadn’t previously occurred to me to ask: Why don’t we see more women in the ranks of heterodox black public intellectuals? (If you know of some I’m forgetting, let me know in the comments!) We then turn to the anniversary of the January 6 riot. John and I agree that it didn’t rise to the level of an “attempted coup” or an “insurrection,” but it doesn’t bode well for the stability of our elections or the country itself. Are we going to see more violence of this kind in future elections? And finally, John we do a quick review of some of John’s prodigious recent output for the New York Times and his podcast, Lexicon Valley. It’s great to be back with John after a month-long hiatus. Let us know what you think of the conversation!This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.0:00 The significance of Sidney Poitier’s Caribbean origins  9:27 Revisiting the Lani Guinier controversy  24:09 How Guinier’s views eventually triumphed 29:50 Where are the “heterodox” black women?  38:36 Glenn: I’m worried about the stability of our electoral process 49:12 Are we on the precipice of violent political conflict? 1:01:04 An update on John’s prodigious outputLinks and Readings“They call me Mr. Tibbs.”Susan Sturm and Lani Guinier, “The Future of Affirmative Action: Reclaiming the Innovative Ideal”Abigail Thernstrom, Whose Votes Count?: Affirmative Action and Minority Voting RightsCarol Swain, Black Faces, Black Interests: The Representation of African Americans in CongressDavid Brooks’s NYT column, “Why Democrats Are So Bad at Defending Democracy” John’s NYT newsletter post, “I Can’t Brook the Idea of Banning ‘Negro’”John’s NYT newsletter post, “Stephen Sondheim Wrote My Life’s Soundtrack”John’s NYT newsletter post, “Yes, the Classics Make Us Better People”The new home of John’s language podcast, Lexicon Valley This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

This week I’m honored to have the distinguished Robert Woodson on the show. Since joining the civil rights movement as an activist and organizer in the ‘60s, Bob has dedicated himself to finding solutions to the problems of poverty and dysfunction in America. Through the Woodson Center, Bob helps fund and advise programs that are on the ground and working to solve some of the toughest problems in American communities. He’s got more awards and achievements than I can possibly list here, and there’s no telling how many lives he’s changed over the years. In this conversation, Bob and I talk about some of the problems with large-scale anti-poverty funding. Bob argues that, while big programs and studies may have their hearts in the right place, they are plagued by inefficiency and often vulnerable to misappropriation. Moreover, welfare programs can introduce perverse incentives into vulnerable communities, creating cycles of dependency that prevent recipients from achieving self-sufficiency. Bob emphasizes the importance of working with people from within those communities, especially those who use faith as a starting point for practical reform. I ask Bob how local programs like this can scale up, especially when they’re religious in nature, and he points to a heartening example in Philadelphia. Bob then takes us through some of the programs the Woodson Center is partnered with and describes the phenomenal work they do. Finally, I announce in public something that has been in the works for a while here at TGS. Starting this year, 10 percent of The Glenn Show’s net earnings will be donated to the Woodson Center to help fund programs of the kind Bob describes. I’ll also periodically have some of the people behind those programs on as guests to talk about their work. I’m grateful for all of the success I’m having here, and it feels right to pay it forward.This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.0:00 Bob: “There is no monolithic ‘Black Community’”8:27 How much anti-poverty spending actually goes to poor people? 19:35 Recalibrating welfare’s perverse incentives 25:15 Can community faith-based interventions scale up? 34:37 The moral inconsistencies of progressive policy 42:24 What should we focus on instead of race? 46:54 How the Woodson Center is working to restore communities 1:01:59 Why is there no religious dimension to current racial justice movements? 1:05:00 The Glenn Show gives backLinks and ReadingsThe Woodson CenterThe Piney Woods SchoolVoices of Black Mothers UnitedVBMU’s Sylvia Bennett-Stone on The Glenn ShowProject H.O.O.D.Hope for Prisoners This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

It’s been a big year here at The Glenn Show. So as 2021 draws to a close, I thought it would be a nice idea to round up some choice selections from the conversations I’ve had with John over the past year. This episode is a kind of “best of” compilation of segments that got a big response from viewers or that I personally thought were important or noteworthy. I couldn’t include all of the highlights, but I think these clips give a good sense of what my conversations with John were all about in 2021.I must also offer my thanks and gratitude to everyone who read, listened, watched, and commented this year, and especially to those of you who continue to support TGS by subscribing to this newsletter. We wouldn’t be able to do it without you. So from the bottom of my heart, thank you!I’m sure I left out things that regular viewers think were worthy of inclusion. What were some of the segments that resonated with you over the last year? What caused you to think, changed your mind, or made you laugh? Post ‘em in the comments!This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.0:00 A special “thank you” from Glenn 6:23 Race and classics (June 18)18:20 Maintaining domestic tranquility in the face of political differences (March 22)36:06 The “badass motherfucker” problem (April 19)46:31 An “aria” on free will and community (July 2)51:04 Responding to “Simone” (November 19)56:18 Glenn: “I was wrong” about Trump (January 22)1:09:37 Reflections on Obama's legacy (October 1)1:18:32 Finding hope amidst wokeness (November 19) This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

On this week’s show, I talk with Professor Amy Wax of the University of Pennsylvania Law School. As you might have guessed, we get into some very controversial territory. But that’s why I enjoy talking to Amy—she doesn’t pull her punches.Amy begins by talking about her position at Penn Law, where a group of alumni are attempting to get her fired. It’s not the first time people have tried this—as Amy notes, she’s been “canceled” many times, but she’s still here. We move on to a discussion of immigration. While I think the U.S. has benefitted from the talent and value of non-Western immigrants and will require more of them in the future if we’re going to compete, Amy is more skeptical. She wonders whether immigrants from South Asia and East Asia have democratic sensibilities that are compatible with American culture. She worries, too, that these immigrants will adopt woke political positions. But is it necessary to look abroad for a supply of talented, technically minded people? Why can’t we find them here? Amy and I both think that would be a good idea. Amy asks me how conservatives should deal with the problem of wokeness. I tell her that we have to fight these battles as they come. We spend the last third of our conversation talking about the extremely contentious issues of white identity, European history, and colonialism. It wouldn’t be a conversation with Amy Wax if we didn’t push every possible hot button. I’m very curious to know what you all think of the conversation. Let me know in the comments!This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.Want to give the gift of The Glenn Show this holiday season? Click below to purchase a subscription for a friend or loved one. 0:00 The latest attempt to get Amy fired from Penn Law 5:41 Should we be worried even about elite non-Western immigration? 19:21 Amy: “There’s nothing wrong with stereotyping” when it’s done correctly 26:28 Glenn: America need immigrants if we’re going to compete 34:23 Why aren’t we looking harder for technical talent in America? 40:09 The problem with “equal representation” 47:15 Glenn: Wokeness is a political problem that must be fought politically 59:38 The collective action problem of “commonsense” race politics 1:02:36 Is Charles Murray right to worry about white identity politics? 1:18:12 Glenn: “We need to abandon the identitarian matrix altogether” 1:26:37 Was European colonialism especially bad or an expression of broader human tendencies?Links and ReadingsGlenn’s 2021 National Conservatism Conference speech, “The Case for Black Patriotism” in First Things.A transcript of Amy’s 2019 National Conservatism Conference speechMatt Taibbi, “The Red-Pilling of Loudoun County, Virginia”Yuval Levin, “The Changing Face of Social Breakdown”Michael Anton, “Unprecedented” Adam Hochschild, King Leopold’s Ghosts: A Story of Greed, Terror, and Heroism in Colonial Africa This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

The “common sense” of the Woke Left sees so many issues, from the historical effects of redlining to the relationship between race and IQ, as matters that no longer require discussion. “Redlining is responsible for present-day racial wealth disparities, period. There is no relationship between race and IQ, period. End of discussion.”But the discussion is not over, these matters and many others are not settled. Treating them as such just papers over matters of vital concern that require serious thinking. John and I have in some sense made it our mission to unsettle these so-called settled questions. And in the course of doing it, we’ve unsettled the people that consider the questions settled as well. We talk a bit about in this week’s conversation.I begin by talking to John about reaching what may be the current high-water mark of his fame: He was a clue on a recent episode of Jeopardy. There are perhaps more data-driven ways of understanding how fame works, but if the writers on Jeopardy know who you are, you must be exerting some kind of influence on the culture. We then move on to discuss attempts by activists to change math curricula in order to (these activists claims) make them more accommodating to black students. Some argue that these changes don’t alter the fundamental character of math education, but John strongly disagrees. Which is not to say that considerations of diversity have no place in the sciences. Graduate programs in technical fields could take more risks in who they admit to their programs without lowering their overall standards. Doing so might net them the next Roland Fryer (or even the next Glenn Loury). We then return to the small screen. John talks about going on The View to promote Woke Racism, and I talk about debating Michael Eric Dyson on Bill Maher’s Real Time. With the Jussie Smollett verdict in, we reflect on the bizarre story the Empire actor tried to sell and his maybe even more bizarre refusal to admit he lied. We then go on to discuss America’s “black-white” racial binary. With so many people of so many different backgrounds, ethnicities, and colors now populating the country, does this mindset still make sense? And finally, we ask why cultural explanations for racial disparities are still taboo for so many people.As always, this was a stimulating, deep, and fun conversation with my good friend. I hope you enjoy it! This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.Want to give the gift of The Glenn Show this holiday season? Click below to purchase a subscription for a friend or loved one. 0:00 This regular TGS guest was recently a clue on Jeopardy 2:23 Is race-conscious math education as radical as it sounds? 14:17 Why diversity, when done right, can be an asset 19:55 John on The View, Glenn on Bill Maher 26:34 The strange case of Jussie Smollett 43:42 Does the American “white-black” binary make sense anymore? 49:39 If America is irredeemably racist, why do so many non-white people immigrate here? 58:18 What’s the matter with “culture”?Links and ReadingsJohn’s appearance on Nathan Robinson’s podcast Stephon Alexander’s Fear of a Black Universe: An Outsider’s Guide to the Future of PhysicsDavid Austen-Smith and Roland Fryer, “An Economic Analysis of ‘Acting White’”Andrew Sullivan, “The Woke: On the Wrong Side of History”Matt Taibbi, “The Red-Pilling of Loudon County, Virginia” This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

The audiovisual experiments continue here at The Glenn Show. In some of our recent conversations, John McWhorter and I talked about how we would reply to “Simone,” a fictionalized version of one of my students at Brown who believes that systemic racism causes most or all of the racial disparities in the US. I think Simone is wrong about that, but this idea is so widespread that John and I agreed that we can’t just brush it aside. We need to address and refute it head on. We attempted to do that in this conversation. And I think we did a pretty good job! But in a comment, a reader, Adam, pointed out that we neglected to anticipate some very strong arguments that Simone might have made in her own defense. I replied to Adam, but I think our exchange deserves a more prominent place, so I recorded an audio version and Nikita Petrov created some visuals to go along with it. We’re looking to produce more content like this in the future, but we’d love your input. Let me know what you think in the comments!This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.Want to give the gift of The Glenn Show this holiday season? Click below to purchase a subscription for a friend or loved one. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

This week on TGS we’ve got Rav Arora. He’s a compelling writer on race matters in the US. He’s also a college undergraduate, though it would be a mistake to underestimate him. He’s already published in a number of widely read outlets, including the New York Post, Quillette, and City Journal. He’s also got a Substack called Noble Truths, where he writes about psychedelics, meditation, and cultural trends. I begin by inquiring into Rav’s intellectual background. What is this young guy from Canada doing writing about race and crime in the US, anyway? Rav talks about how the summer of 2020 led him to rethink his views and begin writing about them for the public. Rav is quite critical of the way that race, crime, and policing are covered in the US media, but he’s got a nuanced view of things. He talks about why he thinks we need police reform and also more police on the streets. We then move on to a discussion of systemic racism. I say it’s not inconceivable that a police department with a disproportionately high number of black officers could perpetuate racial inequality, though Rav doesn’t seem quite convinced that’s the case. From there, we discuss the misguided claim that violent crime in some black communities is driven solely by poverty. When the question of genetic factors in crime rates comes up, I don’t demure. I don’t know whether there actually is a genetic component, but I’m not ready to dismiss it out of hand. And we round out the discussion by touching on alternatives to incarceration, the increasing earning power of Asian American women, and the recent historic rise in US homicide rates. Rav and I covered a lot of ground in this one. He’s a vital new voice, one I’ll be paying close attention to—I hope you will, too. This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.Want to give the gift of The Glenn Show this holiday season? Click below to purchase a subscription for a friend or loved one. 0:00 How Rav got his start on the crime, policing, and identity politics beat 10:33 Why is a Canadian college student writing about race and crime in the US? 21:30 Rav: We need police reform but also more police in black communities 31:34 Will hiring more black police officers make police departments “less racist”? 43:26 Glenn: It’s ridiculous to say that violent crime is driven only by poverty 50:04 Is it possible that racial disparities in crime rates have a genetic basis? 55:09 Are there any effective alternatives to prison? 1:00:52 Why Asian American women are out-earning white men 1:10:23 What’s behind the historic rise in homicide rates?Rav’s Substack, Noble TruthsAldon Morris’s Scientific American essay, “From Civil Rights to Black Lives Matter”Rav’s Quillette piece, “A Peculiar Kind of Racist Patriarchy”  Urban Labs’ Becoming a Man program David Frum’s 2016 interview with Barry Latzer about crime wavesLast year’s famous study of the “Minneapolis effect”The Marshall Project’s analysis of race and victimization in 2020 This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

John and I often talk about how we feel about race in America, but we rarely delve into why we feel the way we feel. What factors in our own lives primed us for those emotional responses? While John and I often agree about where the politics of race have gone wrong, we just as often experience very different feelings about these matters.I start the discussion off by raising a question a friend put to me recently: are we wasting our time engaging with “red meat” issues in the race debate? Should we stick to the hard data before wading into the culture war? This leads us to discuss our very different emotional responses to the people we disagree with. I tend to go to anger and John tends toward empathy. We look to our respective pasts to try to understand why we diverge in this way. In fact, we stay in the past for a while, looking back on our exposure to Afrocentrism and black radicalism in our youths and to the skepticism that often attended those encounters. Finally, we work our way back around to “Omar.” Personally, I believe that the Omars of the world can and must lay claim to their agency. That they often refuse to is source of constant frustration and, yes, shame. It’s an intense episode. It’s also one marred by technical difficulties. John lost his connection at several points during the conversation, and finally what had been a dialogue became a monologue. Apologies for the rough edges!Want to give the gift of The Glenn Show this holiday season? Click below to purchase a subscription for a friend or loved one.0:00 Are Glenn and John wasting their time by talking about race? 10:36 How Glenn and John’s families shaped their attitudes toward race 20:42 Looking back on past radicalism 27:15 Glenn: Is my anger necessary? 33:26 Can “Omar” change his ways? This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

In this week’s TGS, my old friend Larry Kotlikoff, an economist at Boston University, is back to talk about some of our most pressing economic concerns. Chief among them is the inflation rate, which has hit a 30-year high. By some accounts, inflation is now threatening to do major, possibly longterm damage to the US economy. But are things as bad as they seem? Larry will take us through his analysis and talk about some other looming economic troubles. If you want to understand how these things work, Larry is your guy.We begin by discussing just why high inflation poses such a dire threat to the economy. Obviously it’s something to be concerned about, but will it get bad enough to send us the way of Weimar Germany? This leads us to discuss Biden’s recent policy decisions, including the $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill. Larry argues that it’s not as costly as it sounds when you consider that it’s parceled out over the course of a decade. Larry is much more concerned about the fiscal gap, which is enormous and, according to Larry, could eventually lead the US into insolvency. Larry sees this as a problem that can only be solved by responsible political leadership, but we have trouble naming any current politicians with the influence to get it done. It’s always great to have Larry on the show (even if he has a tendency to make some pretty frightening predictions about the future). As always, I’m interested to know what you think!This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.Want to give the gift of The Glenn Show this holiday season? Click below to purchase a subscription for a friend or loved one. 0:00 Why high inflation is a potentially dire problem 9:00 Are we headed the way of Weimar Germany and Argentina? 20:37 How short-term government spending can function as a longterm investment 30:02 The looming threat of the fiscal gap 37:08 Why is the US’s fiscal gap so large compared to that of other countries? 41:30 Larry: We’re on the path to becoming a second-rate country 46:37 Why Larry thinks we should index taxes to inflation 53:36 Can we pay for what we’re spending without printing money?Links and ReadingsSteven Rattner’s NYT guest essay, “I Warned the Democrats about Inflation”Larry Summers’s WaPo op-ed, “On inflation, it’s past time for team transitory to stand down”Larry’s website This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

A couple weeks ago in this space, I published an autobiographical sketch called “The Double Life.” It elicited such a strong reaction from readers that I wanted to revisit it, so I recorded an audio version and Nikita Petrov, my creative director, created a video feature to go along with it. I plan to do more of these audio/video pieces in the future, mostly for subscribers. Let me know what you think of this new feature in the comments!This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, ad-free versions of the podcast, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe