The Glenn Show

0:00 Is Florence Price’s music worthy of its current popularity?12:20 The decline of blind auditions18:27 Do diverse orchestras attract diverse audiences and musicians?23:26 Why Don is protecting his real identity27:00 Glenn delivers a soliloquy on humanity32:06 John: Eliminating blind auditions is “bat s**t crazy”38:22 Should John’s daughters benefit from affirmative action?Links and ReadingsDon’s Substack, The PodiumDon’s series on Florence Price: Part One, Part Two, Part ThreeFlorence Price’s Symphony No. 3Van Cliburn’s performance of Rachmaninoff’s Piano Concerto No. 2Anthony Tommasini’s NYT piece, “To Make Orchestras More Diverse, End Blind Auditions”George Walker on YouTubeWilliam Dawson’s Negro Folk SymphonyWilliam Grant Still’s Symphony No. 1Claudia Goldin and Cecilia Rouse’s article “Orchestrating Impartiality: The Impact of ‘Blind’ Auditions on Female Musicians”John’s NYT piece, “Stop Making Asian Americans Pay the Price for Campus Diversity” This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

This week I welcome Lara Bazelon back to the show. Lara is a lawyer, a professor of law, and the author of several books, including the excellent novel A Good Mother. Lara is also an energetic free speech advocate who has taken some principled stands that have, at times, put her at odds with other progressives.We begin by discussing Lara’s decision to represent a college student, “John,” who had been found culpable for the alleged rape of a fellow student. Lara explains how the Title IX regulations under which John was investigated unfairly stacked the deck against him. These regulations, while providing needed protections for women, can also allow for unfair results that can potentially destroy the lives of the accused without giving them a chance to defend themselves. As a feminist, Lara is committed to defending women’s equality, but she is also uncomfortable with the ways that some progressives seem willing to sacrifice free speech in the name of equity. This has led her to work with pro-free speech organizations that have, among other things, defended Amy Wax against Penn Law’s attempt to fire her. Lara finds many of Amy’s statements odious, but she does not believe Amy should be silenced. She’s even found common cause with conservatives with whom she has worked to overturn wrongful convictions.Lara is proof that, even in our current political environment, principled conservatives and progressives can act together in good faith to achieve some common goals. I admire her courage and conviction, and I’m very curious to know what all of you think.This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.Featured Content from City JournalJoanna Williams discusses how the concept of a motherhood pay “penalty” indicates a society with misplaced priorities. 0:00 Lara’s critique of Title IX adjudications 9:29 Why Lara defended a college student accused of rape 19:17 Lara’s cross-examination of the accuser 26:45 The trouble with “Believe Women” 36:11 What the Trump Administration got right about Title IX 39:26 Why Lara supports Amy Wax’s freedom of speech 50:25 Does Glenn still feel marginalized? 56:58 Finding common ground amidst political tribalism 1:01:12 Lara’s work on racial disparities in sexual assault casesLinks and ReadingsLara’s new book, Ambitious Like a Mother: Why Prioritizing Your Career Is Good for Your KidsLara’s book, Rectify: The Power of Restorative Justice After Wrongful ConvictionLara’s novel, A Good MotherLara’s keynote address at FIRE’s 2022 Student Network ConferenceUniversity of San Francisco’s Juvenile & Criminal Justice Law ClinicPenn Law Dean Theodore Ruger’s letter to the Faculty Senate regarding Amy WaxThe Academic Freedom Alliance’s letter in support of Amy Wax This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

This week, John McWhorter and I welcome special guest Ian Rowe to TGS. Ian is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, the founder and CEO of Vertex Enterprise Academies, and author of the new book Agency: The Four Point Plan (F.R.E.E.) for ALL Children to Overcome the Victimhood Narrative and Discover Their Pathway to Power. Ian is doing outstanding work establishing charter schools throughout New York City, so John and I invited him on to discuss his efforts, among other topics. We begin by discussing how the Rodney King beating and the LA riots that followed the acquittal of the officers involved led Ian and Nique Fajors to make a documentary, which, decades later, developed into their podcast Invisible Men. Ian thinks that two related and competing narratives—“blame the system” and “blame the victim”—place pressure on black teens and young men, and his work at the Vertex Enterprise Academies’ charter schools tries to help them grow in another direction. Ian stresses marriage as a central component in long-term success, but I push him to explain how marriage can correct for dysfunctional patterns present in husband and wife that have been present since childhood. John introduces the issue of academic success and “acting white”—can Ian’s schools overcome cultural barriers to black academic excellence? Ian then talks more generally about the ins and outs of running a group of charter schools in New York and their recent legal victory over a teacher’s union that tried to block their funding. And finally, we talk about the recent Old Parkland Conference, which Ian and I had a hand in organizing. He’s got some exciting things planned for the next phase in that project.Ian is out there on the front lines of education reform. It’s heartening to see someone with his intelligence and drive fighting the good fight. I’m very much looking forward to your comments on this one. Featured Content from City JournalJason Riley discusses the upcoming midterm elections, analyzing the impact of this summer’s SCOTUS decision on Roe and the prospects for the GOP to retake power in DC. This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.0:00 How Rodney King led to Ian’s podcast, Invisible Men 7:31 Blaming the system and blaming the victim 13:20 Ian: I run schools to show my students they can do hard things 17:16 What’s so special about marriage? 29:24 Glenn: Right living is its own reward 41:34 The problem of success and “blackness” 40:26 Ian’s experience running Vertex 45:41 How Ian funds his schools 55:46 The bureaucratic opposition to charter schools 58:47 What comes after the Old Parkland Conference?Links and ReadingsIan’s book, Agency: The Four Point Plan (F.R.E.E.) for ALL Children to Overcome the Victimhood Narrative and Discover Their Pathway to PowerIan’s charter school group, Vertex Partnership AcademiesIan and Nique Fajors’s podcast, The Invisible MenIan and Naomi Schaefer Riley’s podcast, Are You Kidding Me?Milton Friedman and Thomas Sowell speak at the 1980 Fairmont Conference Video from the Old Parkland Conference Glenn, Ian, and Robert Woodson’s appearance on Peter Robinson’s Uncommon Knowledge This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

Source post0:00 Introducing Glenn Loury8:50 What is “social capital”?19:24 Racial inequality and self-segregation 30:01 Glenn: “The jig is up” on affirmative action39:45 Balancing preferences and colorblindness 45:35 Rethinking the welfare state55:41 Why Glenn’s forthcoming memoir is titled The Enemy Within  This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

0:00 What’s on the menu for Glenn’s birthday party 4:49 John’s Twitter spat with Ibram X. Kendi 14:05 What do we lose by changing testing standards? 20:39 Glenn: If groups matter, then culture matters 32:04 How to prove a racist wrong 39:19 The ballad of Glenn and Woody 51:50 Mitchell S. Jackson’s Esquire essay about Clarence ThomasLinks and Readings John and Ibram X. Kendi on Twitter, part oneJohn and Ibram X. Kendi on Twitter, part two John’s NYT piece, “Lower Black and Latino Pass Rates Don’t Make a Test Racist” John’s NYT piece, “Proving Racists Wrong Is Not a Trivial Pursuit”Glenn’s 1992 Commentary essay, “Free at Last?”This American Life segment on Glenn and WoodyMitchell S. Jackson’s Esquire essay, “Looking for Clarence Thomas”Barry Bearak’s 1997 NYT profile of Ward Connerly This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

Normally this week I would post a conversation with John McWhorter. However, due to unforeseen circumstances, we were unable to record. He’ll be back next week. This week, I’m presenting my conversation with Steve McIntosh, President, Co-Founder, and Director of the Institute for Cultural Evolution. I’ve already spoken with two ICE fellows this year—Stephanie Lepp and Greg Thomas—so this TGS episode constitutes a continuation of the series. I ask Steve about his latest book, Developmental Politics: How America Can Grow into a Better Version of Itself, which he delivers as a primer on “cultural evolution.” He traces out a historical narrative that takes us from traditionalism to modernity to our present moment of “progressive postmodernity,” and I ask him whether the more excessive elements of our era should be fought or viewed as a stepping stone to the next phase of cultural development. Steve’s answer: “both.” He discusses his account of the last 300 years mostly in terms of Europe and North America, so I ask him how the rise of East Asia fits into the evolutionary processes he discusses. The recent attack on Salman Rushdie leads me to wonder how a cultural evolutionist framework can help us deal with radically anti-modern movements like violent Islamic fundamentalism, and Steve advocates for the promotion of moderate forms of Islam that are in-step with the rest of the world. Steve includes worrying identitarian movements like Black Lives Matter and Kendiesque anti-racism within the progressive postmodern paradigm, but he also thinks that many good things—like gay rights—have come out of it. We close our conversation by considering what a cultural evolutionist has to say about the increasingly dire political polarization we’re experiencing in the US and development within African American communities. I don’t know that I’m wholly convinced by the grand historical narrative Steve offers, but we need as many new ideas as we can get in the discourse, and cultural evolution does have many virtues (like its praise of economic liberty). I look forward to reading your comments. Featured Content from City JournalStephen Eide discusses homelessness in New York City, the immigration related surge in shelters, and Mayor Adams sparring with Texas Governor Abbot. This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.0:00 A scheduling announcement from Glenn 1:28 Steve's latest book, Developmental Politics: How America Can Grow into a Better Version of Itself 7:54 From modernity to progressive postmodernism 15:18 Are we in the midst of cultural evolution or culture war? 19:02 The work of the Institute for Cultural Evolution 30:52 “Modernist consciousness” in East Asia 37:07 Steve: “Force is necessary but not sufficient” to combat violent Islamic fundamentalism 44:01 The positive side of progressive postmodernism 49:15 Can cultural evolution overcome political polarization in the US? 55:38 A cultural evolutionary perspective on the African American development narrative Links and ReadingsInstitute for Cultural EvolutionSteve's latest book, Developmental Politics: How America Can Grow into a Better Version of Itself Steve’s book with John Mackey and Carter Phipps, Conscious Leadership: Elevating Humanity Through BusinessBari Weiss’s recent speech to University of Austin studentsGlenn and John McWhorter’s conversation with Richard WolffSteve’s white paper on political polarization in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo massacre This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

This week, one of the most controversial TGS guests of all time returns: Penn Law professor Amy Wax. She’s currently in a dire predicament. Her job is on the line. Whatever you think of Amy’s positions, there are issues at play in her case that have implications for people of all political persuasions, and she deserves to be heard out. Amy begins by recounting the events that have led up to her conflict with the administration at Penn Law and taking issue with the charges leveled at her by the school’s dean, Theodore Ruger. Some of those charges are quite serious: racism, sexism, and xenophobia. But Amy contends that they are overblown and implausible. Amy thinks this conflict began when she questioned the efficacy and ethics of affirmative action in public. If the LSATs and other standardized tests predict classroom performance, we shouldn’t be surprised when students admitted with low test scores don’t perform well. That’s a perfectly logical position, yet Amy has been pilloried for taking it. And I agree with her! But I tell her I do feel a little uncomfortable when I’m confronted by students who take my analysis of affirmative action personally. It’s clear that, even though Amy has tenure, her job is at risk Despite the very strong free speech protections guaranteed by tenure, she may be fired for speaking her mind in public. While I don’t agree with her on many issues, I think that would be a disaster. It could open the door to the evisceration of free inquiry within the American university. Amy has said and done many controversial things, including inviting the white nationalist Jared Taylor to speak with to her students. But Amy teaches a course on conservative political and legal thought, and Taylor is an influential figure in some far-right circles. I do press Amy on this, because she has espoused interest in the kind race realism associated with Taylor, and she argues that his ideas at least merit serious consideration.Amy and I are friends, but it wasn’t always so. I recall our first encounter, when she challenged some of my claims about race and mass incarceration. I wasn’t pleased at the time, but I’m now glad she had the freedom to make the comments she made (even though I still think I’m right). As she says, reality is often upsetting and uncomfortable, and if we choose to hide our heads in the sand rather than confronting reality, we can’t say we’re interested in the truth. That I do agree with. And I stand with her in fight to pursue the truth, even if we differ on where it may be found. If you want to support her, she provides some ways you can do that.The comments section is always explosive after Amy appears on TGS, so I’m looking forward to seeing what debates emerge. Let me know what you think!This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.Featured Content from City JournalCharles Fain Lehman & Renu Mukherjee on why support for the Democratic Party among high-skilled Asian-Americans is not immutable, which opens opportunities for Republican lawmakers to grow their voter base.0:00 Amy’s recent conflict with the Penn Law School administration  7:38 Amy responds to her dean’s charges of racism, sexism, and xenophobia  16:38 Should we take students’ feelings into account when discussing race and admissions?  27:34 Glenn: If Amy is fired, it will be an outrage beyond belief 34:53 Why Amy invited Jared Taylor to speak with her students 44:28 Amy’s defense of race realism’s legitimacy  50:25 Glenn and Amy’s first encounter  53:36 Amy: Sometimes reality is upsetting and offensive 58:58 How to help AmyLinks and ReadingsDean Theodor Ruger’s letter to the Penn Faculty Senate asking for a review of Amy’s conductAmy’s past conversations with Glenn Donate to Amy’s legal defense fund This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

John McWhorter is back, reporting from his Catskills bungalow for the latest installment in our ongoing conversation. Let’s get into it. While I’m at home rather than a bungalow, I’m fresh off a wonderful vacation in North Carolina, which I spent surrounded by my wife, children, and grandchildren. Two of my granddaughters are now young women in college and law school, and they had some questions for me about some of the public positions I’ve taken. I recount the discussions I had with them about the Harvard-UNC affirmative action case and the Supreme Court’s abortion ruling. John recounts how calls for proportionate racial representation in the performing arts are leading not only to backstage disruptions but to the elevation of theatrical works that, in John’s view, lack quality but have the “right” political message.John thinks that intellectual insecurity sometimes plays a part in calls for “racial reckoning,” especially on campus. He notes that he never sees his most high-achieving and intellectually confident black students at Columbia involving themselves in campus activism of that kind, and I’ve had the same experience at Brown. All John’s stories about attempts to accommodate racial uprisings within the performing arts makes me wonder when someone is going to say “enough is enough.” Democratic politicians don’t seem willing to do it, but what about CEOs, heads of foundations, and other leaders in the private sector? It’s time for them to opt out of the DEI game.We end by returning again to the arts. John has written an excellent column arguing that, in most cases, we shouldn’t let the flawed personal views of artists stop us from enjoying their art. And we close with the disturbing case of Salman Rushdie, who is still in the hospital following last week’s attempt on his life.As always, I look forward to reading your comments.This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.Featured Content from Manhattan Institute ScholarsOn this episode of the Hoover Institution’s Uncommon Knowledge, Peter Robinson talks with Manhattan Institute fellows Roland Fryer and Rafael Mangual about what is and is not working in policing and law enforcement in the U.S. 0:00 A report on the Loury family reunion 9:22 Identity politics onstage and backstage 19:22 Insecurity-driven campus grievance 27:01 Glenn: When will non-right-wing leaders say “Enough!” to racial grievance? 36:16 John: People with ugly opinions can also produce great art … 52:35 … but are there significant figures whose views disqualify them from public honor? 56:38 Considering fundamentalist Islam and human nature after the Salman Rushdie assaultLinks and Readings We See You, White American Theater’s “Principles for Building Anti-Racist Theatre Systems”New York City Center Encore!’s page for The LifeJames Baldwin’s 1949 essay, “Everybody’s Protest Novel”John’s NYT column, “Let’s Have Fewer Cancellations. Let People Take Their Lumps, Then Move On.”James Baldwin and William F. Buckley’s 1965 debate at Cambridge UniversityJames Baldwin’s 1962 essay, “Letter from a Region in My Mind” This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

As I announced last week, we here at the newsletter and The Glenn Show have a new partner: the Manhattan Institute. I realize some of you may not be familiar with the Institute’s work and point of view, so today I’ve got Manhattan Institute President Reihan Salam on the show to talk about what the Institute does and how some of its scholars and fellows are thinking about the problems facing New York and other American cities today. The Manhattan Institute is often regarded as a conservative place, but as you’ll hear, there’s nothing predictable or partisan about how Reihan understands those problems and their potential solutions. Reihan begins by talking a bit about how he first became aware of me and my work. He’s a formidable thinker himself, so I have to say I’m pretty flattered! After discussing how he came to take on his current role at the Manhattan Institute, Reihan talks about some of the changes in crime rates in US cities necessitate a renewed focus on public safety. New York City Mayor Eric Adams, a Democrat, has shifted more resources to public safety-oriented initiatives. Reihan talks about what that shift might mean for the city. In many ways, Adams’s approach to governing doesn’t line up with Democratic national policy positions, and Reihan talks about how dissenters within political parties and movements (both left and right) can create needed change. Some of that change, Reihan argues, needs to come from more investment in certain government-run agencies, including those that comprise the criminal justice system. For example, he wants to see safer streets for ordinary citizens but also safer prisons for the incarcerated. The conversation moves on to education, and Reihan describes what he sees as the positive developments in New York schools under Michael Bloomberg, which languished under Bill de Blasio’s mayorship. And finally, we turn to race matters. Reihan is deeply skeptical that flattening out racial and ethnic identity under the banner of “BIPOC” actually helps ethnic minority communities, and he’s equally skeptical of the ways that racial identity has become central to how so many people think of themselves today. I agree, but I also wouldn’t want to discard the valuable histories and traditions that go along with our conception of race and identity. Maybe I want it both ways, but shouldn’t I be able to have that? If this conversation is any indication, TGS and MI have got a long, fruitful collaboration ahead of us. I’m looking forward to all the good work to come. This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.Featured Content from City JournalRenu Mukherjee on San Franscisco's misguided effort to do away with standardized testing for its most selective public high school—how it undermined merit and hurt many of the kids it intended to help. 0:00 Glenn’s impact on Reihan 5:38 How Reihan became president of the Manhattan Institute 11:15 What is the Manhattan Institute’s relationship to Eric Adams’s administration? 18:40 The value of dissenters 22:07 Reihan: We’ve underinvested in our criminal justice system 29:31 What constitutes a quality high school education? 36:38 Michael Bloomberg’s education initiatives 41:58 Reihan’s concerns about racial reification 50:08 The uses and abuses of racial identityLinks and ReadingsTariq Modood, Steven Teles, and Glenn’s book, Ethnicity, Social Mobility, and Public Policy: Comparing the US and UKRafael Mangual’s book, Criminal (In)Justice: What the Push for Decarceration and Depolicing Gets Wrong and Who It Hurts MostIsmail K. White and Chryl N. Laird’s book, Steadfast Democrats: How Social Forces Shape Black Political BehaviorMatt Feeney’s book, Little Platoons: A Defense of Family in a Competitive Age This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

This week on The Glenn Show, John McWhorter and I are joined by Richard Wolff, Professor Emeritus of Economics at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst and Visiting Professor of International Affairs at the the New School. Richard is Marxian in his orientation and I am not, so we do some debating here. And while we may not agree on much as far as economics goes, we do share some concerns about the direction of the left in this country. Before the conversation, I make an important announcement: Beginning today, I’m partnering with the Manhattan Institute to bring you The Glenn Show and this newsletter. I lay out what this means in my introduction and in conversation with John at the end of the show, but here are two important takeaways. First, I will maintain full editorial independence over all the content on the podcast and at the newsletter. And second, we’re lowering the cost of the newsletter. For monthly subscribers, fees will drop from $7/month to $6/month. The price of an annual subscription will drop even more substantially, from $70/year to $50/year. For those of you who already have an annual subscription, we’ll extend it by three months to make up the difference. I’m having success here at TGS, and I want to share it with you.And with that, let’s get into it. Richard begins by describing his student days and early career, when he was relatively quiet about his Marxism, the post-Occupy Wall Street environment that made him into a public intellectual, and his origins in Youngstown, Ohio, where the flight of capital devastated the formerly thriving industrial city. He argues that capitalism is not only bad for democracy but inherently anti-democratic, since it allows unelected CEOs and boards of directors to determine the economic fate of huge swathes of the populace. I take some issue with this. First, I ask Richard to respond to Friedrich von Hayek’s claim that markets will always allocate information and resources more efficiently than centrally planned economies. Second, I raise the point that business owners are entering into a contract with employees. It’s a standard exchange of goods and services. Why should employees have any right to the business owner’s property beyond an agreed-upon wage or salary? There is also the matter of socialism’s historical track record, which Richard defends. Richard and I do find some common ground in our skepticism toward the contemporary left, which sometimes seems to have abandoned the working class in favor of identity politics. Once Richard departs, John and I discuss my new partnership with the Manhattan Institute. He and I both want to make clear that John himself is not employed by the Manhattan Institute, though he used to be, and he still respects what they do. There’s a lot happening in this episode and in TGS World. As always, I look forward to reading your comments.This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.0:00 A special announcement from Glenn 3:47 Richard’s journey from quiet Marxist to public intellectual 9:08 Why Youngstown, Ohio was left behind  12:04 Richard: Capitalist ownership is inherently anti-democratic 15:41 Richard’s critique of Hayekian libertarianism    21:44 Pecuniary externalities vs. objective externalities  23:49 Socialism’s historical track record  31:07 Employees as stakeholders  34:36 The rise of the right in the wake of the New Deal and WWII 42:00 The Glenn Show’s new partnership with the Manhattan InstituteLinks and ReadingsThe Manhattan InstituteRichard’s book (with Stephen Resnick), Class Theory and History: Capitalism and Communism in the USSR Glenn and John on Herschel WalkerClifton Roscoe’s critique of Glenn and John on Herschel WalkerJohn’s NYT column about Walker This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe