

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp
Tokens Media
What does it really mean to live a good life—in our politics, our faith, our work, and our relationships?
On No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp, we explore the ideas, practices, and public debates that shape human flourishing today. Each week you’ll hear thought-provoking conversations with bestselling authors, philosophers, neuroscientists, psychologists, theologians, artists, and political leaders—people wrestling with the biggest questions of meaning and purpose in our time.
Together we ask:
How can religion be a force for healing instead of division?
What does neuroscience reveal about happiness, habits, and productivity?
Where do politics and justice meet the pursuit of the common good?
How do truth, beauty, and goodness help us live well—personally and collectively?
If you care about faith, politics, social justice, science, or the search for meaning, you’ll find courageous, practical conversations here. Because pursuing a meaningful life is no small endeavor—and we’re with you on the road.
Learn more at nosmallendeavor.com.
On No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp, we explore the ideas, practices, and public debates that shape human flourishing today. Each week you’ll hear thought-provoking conversations with bestselling authors, philosophers, neuroscientists, psychologists, theologians, artists, and political leaders—people wrestling with the biggest questions of meaning and purpose in our time.
Together we ask:
How can religion be a force for healing instead of division?
What does neuroscience reveal about happiness, habits, and productivity?
Where do politics and justice meet the pursuit of the common good?
How do truth, beauty, and goodness help us live well—personally and collectively?
If you care about faith, politics, social justice, science, or the search for meaning, you’ll find courageous, practical conversations here. Because pursuing a meaningful life is no small endeavor—and we’re with you on the road.
Learn more at nosmallendeavor.com.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jun 4, 2020 • 33min
6: Hospitality Wanted, Given, and Given When not Wanted: Leslie Garcia, Brian McLaren, and Odessa Settles
Three very different accounts of hospitality: one entails sneaking across the border in the back of a pick-up truck. Another entails seeking out a Muslim imam to say some things after September 11. And a third entails a radical subversion of southern racism through the exercise of both medical expertise, and kindness. Our episode on hospitality comprises an interview with author Brian McLaren, a spoken word performance by Leslie Garcia, and an interview with beloved Nashville performer Odessa Settles.
LINKS:
Brian’s book: "Why Did Jesus, Moses, the Buddha, and Mohammed Cross the Road? Christian Identity in a Multi-Faith World" - https://amzn.to/2ZKmcVj
Tokens 2020 Subscriptions: www.tokensshow.com/2020
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May 28, 2020 • 49min
5: Faith, Science, Humility: Rachel Held Evans, Francis Collins, and Ed Larson
The supposed conflict between faith and science, as typified in the debate between fundamentalist Christianity and the theory of evolution, turns out to be hiding some skeletons in its closet. This episode explores some crucial unknowns, and breaks down some false dichotomies, in conversations on site of the famed Scopes Trial in Dayton, Tennessee with Pulitzer prize-winning author Ed Larson and celebrated activist and author Rachel Held Evans (who tragically passed away in 2019), as well as an interview at Pepperdine University with Dr. Francis Collins, director of the National Institutes of Health.
Find links to videos and photos from our show at the Rhea County Courthouse, along with historical photos and other helpful links on the episode page at www.tokensshow.com/blog/s1e4
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May 26, 2020 • 12min
4: String quartet arrangement of Marie Howe's poem, "Part of Eve's Discussion"-BONUS
A follow-up to episode three with a special performance of Marie Howe's poem, "Part of Eve's Discussion" set to music by composer Stephen Lamb. Vocalist is Cindy Morgan, Alicia Enstrom and Katelyn Westergard on Violin, Kristin Wilkinson on Viola, Nicholas Gold on Cello.
More about the Tokens Podcast at tokensshow.com/podcast
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May 21, 2020 • 57min
2: Humility and the Art of Politics: Bill Haslam
Host Lee C. Camp invents a phrase: the “sunk-suffering fallacy.” Borrowing from the economists’ sunk-cost fallacy, the sunk-suffering fallacy provides a potential explanation for why some Christians tend to be so horribly partisan. Is there any way out of such a mess? Lee wonders about such questions in his interview with former Tennessee governor Bill Haslam. Haslam reveals an almost jarring key to the kingdom of doing public service, and some virtues to live by.
LINKS:
- Website episode page: https://www.tokensshow.com/blog/s1e1
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May 21, 2020 • 1h 2min
1: Murder, Race and Faith: Jerry Mitchell
Host Lee C. Camp interviews the MacArthur Genius Grant recipient Jerry Mitchell on his new book Race Against Time: A Reporter Reopens the Unsolved Murder Cases of the Civil Rights Era. The conversation discusses Jerry’s anger, his quest for justice, and the manner in which Jerry’s faith drove that quest, contributing to convictions in 24 of those cold Civil Rights era murder cases.
LINKS:
- Website episode page: https://www.tokensshow.com/blog/s1e1
- Jerry Book link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1451645139/ref=as\_li\_tl?camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1451645139&ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&linkId=a9e1e3e6aa2da672a65d67843ffabcc3&tag=tokensshow-20
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May 21, 2020 • 42min
3: Poetry as Politics: Poet Laureates Tracy K. Smith and Marie Howe
A strange conversion experience has happened to religion here in the Bible belt: once known as a key to social transformation, these days it’s more likely the mechanism of socio-political conservatism. So perhaps one of the key questions to living life well in our contemporary world is how to get troubled. Poetry, anyone? The unlikely possibility that poetry could do anything of the sort is explored by former U.S. Poet Laureate Tracy K. Smith, and former NY State Poet Laureate Marie Howe, as they both claim the possibility that poetry can do a great deal of troubling of the waters, can provide a counter-spell to the hypnotizing forces of either social hostility or consumerism.
LINKS:
Tracy K. Smith book, “Life on Mars: Poems”
Tracy K. Smith book, "Wade in the Water: Poems”
Marie Howe book, ”What the Living Do”
Marie Howe book, “Magdalene: Poems”
Tokens 2020 Subscriptions
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