

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp
Tokens Media
What does it really mean to live a good life—in our politics, our faith, our work, and our relationships?
On No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp, we explore the ideas, practices, and public debates that shape human flourishing today. Each week you’ll hear thought-provoking conversations with bestselling authors, philosophers, neuroscientists, psychologists, theologians, artists, and political leaders—people wrestling with the biggest questions of meaning and purpose in our time.
Together we ask:
How can religion be a force for healing instead of division?
What does neuroscience reveal about happiness, habits, and productivity?
Where do politics and justice meet the pursuit of the common good?
How do truth, beauty, and goodness help us live well—personally and collectively?
If you care about faith, politics, social justice, science, or the search for meaning, you’ll find courageous, practical conversations here. Because pursuing a meaningful life is no small endeavor—and we’re with you on the road.
Learn more at nosmallendeavor.com.
On No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp, we explore the ideas, practices, and public debates that shape human flourishing today. Each week you’ll hear thought-provoking conversations with bestselling authors, philosophers, neuroscientists, psychologists, theologians, artists, and political leaders—people wrestling with the biggest questions of meaning and purpose in our time.
Together we ask:
How can religion be a force for healing instead of division?
What does neuroscience reveal about happiness, habits, and productivity?
Where do politics and justice meet the pursuit of the common good?
How do truth, beauty, and goodness help us live well—personally and collectively?
If you care about faith, politics, social justice, science, or the search for meaning, you’ll find courageous, practical conversations here. Because pursuing a meaningful life is no small endeavor—and we’re with you on the road.
Learn more at nosmallendeavor.com.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Oct 29, 2020 • 52min
22: The Christian Imagination: Willie James Jennings
An interview with Dr. Willie James Jennings, Associate Professor of Systematic Theology and Africana Studies at Yale University, on his book The Christian Imagination: Theology and the Origins of Race. Jennings argues that the medieval European colonialist Christian vision imagined the entire globe in terms of a racist imagination; and that the continue to reap the consequences to this day; and that the Christian tradition does, in fact, have resources to re-imagine a new sort of world.
LINKS:
Dr. Jennings’ book, The Christian Imagination
Tokens Online Master Course with Miroslav Volf, Lee C. Camp, and John Mark Hicks.
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Oct 22, 2020 • 40min
21: “What Could Possibly Produce Someone with a Soul That Shallow?”: Stanley Hauerwas
Stanley Hauerwas was once dubbed by Time Magazine with the moniker, “America’s Greatest Theologian.” This is ironic because he’s spent much of his life criticizing American Christianity. Join us for our evening with Stanley, a beloved, profane, beautifully grumpy theologian, as he shares about non-violence, the story of Billy Dick, and a brief commentary on Christians and Donald Trump. PLUS: Stanley Hauerwas makes his acting debut with a stand-up comedy with the Tokens Radio Players.
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Oct 15, 2020 • 1h 1min
20: The Facts of Life: Pádraig Ó Tuama
Irish poet, peace-maker and theologian Pádraig Ó Tuama joins Lee for a discussion on practices of peace-making, including peace with oneself. They both discuss the great significance of John 21 for their own lives. And Pádraig shares readings from his poems “The Facts of Life,” “The Pedagogy of Conflict,” and “Shaking Hands.”
LINKS:
Padraig Books:
In the Shelter
Sorry For Your Troubles
Daily Prayer with the Corrymeela Community
Readings from the Book of Exile
Tokens Online Master Courses
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Oct 8, 2020 • 42min
19: “I’m a Black Feminist: I Think Call Out Culture is Toxic”: Loretta Ross
Loretta Ross is a black feminist, a human rights activist, and an advocate for most things for the American political left. But in a recent New York Times opinion piece, she argues that American culture is sick with calling out, cancelling, and virtue signaling. Co-host Lauren White joins Lee Camp for a provocative conversation sure to be simultaneously celebrated and criticized by both right and left, which prescribes “calling in”—a call for accountability with love—as a creative and productive way forward.
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Oct 1, 2020 • 50min
18: What Hath Christianity to do with Psychology? Mark McMinn
Mark McMinn, Professor of Psychology discusses the presumed antagonism between Christianity and psychology; the recent new research findings which posit a much larger ground of overlap; The surprising consensus between new findings in psychology and traditional Christian virtue theory; one of the common denominators in cases of psychosis and depression; and Lee discusses some of his own experience with depression.
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Sep 24, 2020 • 56min
17: “I Don’t Know if I Should Say It, but, well…”: Charlie Strobel
Charlie Strobel is a sort of elder-statesman in Nashville, a Catholic priest, and founder of Room in the Inn. In a moving conversation with Charlie about some of his most important life moments, Lee and Charlie discuss loneliness and solitude; therapy and the opening of the self; receiving hospitality from the homeless as a boy; and the murder of Charlie’s mother. Charlie shares things regarding which he says “Nobody really knows this, but I guess, I don't know if I should say it, but, well…”
LINKS:
- Tokens Courses: tokensshow.com/courses
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Aug 13, 2020 • 34min
16: Most Outstanding Season Wrap: Lee C. Camp
Host Lee C. Camp in a recap of season one, wandering hither and yon through the archives: on the burning of the world; the apparent irrelevance of poetry, song, and story; the importance of shutting up and listening; on the refusal to practice “othering”; and the deep need for humility as a social virtue.
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Aug 6, 2020 • 1h 1min
15: I Am Not Your Enemy: Michael T. McRay
Author and story practitioner travels to some of the globe’s most contentious socio-political locales. He’s convinced you cannot argue people into a new way of seeing the world, you can only story them into new ways of thinking. In this compelling episode, we hear some of the troubling and violent, yet nonetheless hopeful, stories he’s learned. And we reflect upon personal practices of peace-making, with others and with ourselves.
LINKS:
Link to Michael’s book
Master Course with Miroslav Volf
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Jul 30, 2020 • 1h 2min
14: “Does This Make My Butt Look Big?”: Ashley Cleveland
Grammy and Dove Award winner Ashley Cleveland holds back little, and discusses major life lessons: from her adolescent “bad habit of behaving badly” through the storm of subsequent consequences and recovery; plus a conversation about the south and race, a horrifying murder, and Anne Lamott’s wisdom about what we do, and do not, have time for.
Links:
Master Course with Miroslav Volf
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Jul 23, 2020 • 35min
13: A Theology of Joy: Miroslav Volf
No theology of grumpiness here: Miroslav Volf (Professor of Theology, and Director of the Center for Faith and Culture at Yale University) sketches some initial direction for a Theology of Joy. Volf himself having suffered under a communist regime, and his father have imprisoned in a forced labor camp, he provides compelling possibilities for joy in some of the most difficult of circumstances. AND: Brother Preacher makes an (intrusive) appearance.
LINKS:
- Master Course with Miroslav Volf (get 50% off with code VOLF50): https://www.tokensshow.com/courses
- Book: Exclusion and Embrace, Revised and Updated: A Theological Exploration of Identity, Otherness, and Reconciliation - https://amzn.to/2ZPPbqF
- Book: For the Life of the World: Theology That Makes a Difference (Theology for the Life of the World) - https://amzn.to/2ZM9t46
- Book: Flourishing: Why We Need Religion in a Globalized World - https://amzn.to/32CD9CD
- Book: Allah: A Christian Response - https://amzn.to/2OGBzrb
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