Latter-day Faith

The title of this episode is the title of a poem written by this week’s guest, Selina Forsyth. The poem, which she reads here, contains several wonderful metaphors that most of us can definitely relate to. In many ways, a work like this poem can aid us in actually coming to know our own selves better. The episode certainly contains conversation about the covenant path and spiritual journeys—rich territories in and of themselves. But it features much more. It discusses the creative process and its many parallels with revelation, instruction, and experiencing things at a much deeper level than when in our typical waking lives. In fact, for those who have struggled with meditation or other spiritual practices, diving into the world of creation/co-creation and working with our hands, our voices, and our imagination can often be a catalyst that assists us in coming to know more of what mystics know. It has paid off for Selina, and as an example, she credits it with a complete change in how she understands scripture. As the discussion turns to the poem itself, it raises several issues. One is the power of religious narratives and accompanying rituals have to, in some cases, lull us into a sense of being above the fray, and actually harming our sense of urgency to explore God and Spirit more deeply. In other sections, Selina and LDF host Dan Wotherspoon discuss various other things including the less formal stories we tell, and how goodness is far more powerful and affirming of God’s presence in our lives than are ideas and theories and teachings. It’s a terrific discussion! Come meet the wonderful and powerful Selina!

This episode is a follow up to Latter-day Faith 137, “The Hero’s Return,” which was released this past August. That episode featured a discussion between Stephen Carter and LDF host Dan Wotherspoon about an aspect of the Hero’s Return model that is one of its lesser studied elements: the decision by the hero/heroine to return to their society of origin, bringing with them the insights and power they have gained from their journey. In this follow-up, Dan Wotherspoon adds a few additional insights about that pivotal decision that weren’t explored in the first podcast. In order to help understand the cycle and the return better, Dan introduces and tells the story of Jonathan Livingston Seagull, penned by Richard Bach some fifty years ago. The fable is about a seagull who understands that there is more to a gull’s life than being in the large flock that follows fishing boats and feeds on its scraps. Jonathan gains the sense that the key to unlocking a higher form of life is through flight for flight’s sake, and through great effort, experimentation, risk, and practice he comes to new and rich understandings. After more and more training by other gulls on a similar journey, Jonathan differs from many of them by eventually choosing to return to the flock in order to serve other gulls who are interested in flight more than fighting for fish discarded by boats. Dan then focuses on the struggle to return, which most heroes only do reluctantly and that requires them facing different inner and outer obstacles. And if and when they do return, he introduces Joseph Campbell’s notion of their ability to be a “master of both worlds.”   There is much in this episode that relates closely to spiritual journeys in general, including Mormon ones. Listen in!

We often hear the terms "holy" and "holiness," and we have a general sense of what they mean. But it is always good to look at familiar terms and concepts through different lenses, different eyes, and this is what we have done in this episode. In it, LDF host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by Mark Crego and Kajsa Berlin-Kaufusi, both of whom are scriptural scholars as well as partners with Dan in the Faith Journey Foundation, to examine "holiness" from many angles. Does something "holy" necessarily entail that it is accessible only by those who qualify themselves first through holding certain beliefs or behaving in certain ways? Is being "holy" better understood as a state one reaches, or is it perhaps understood best as an ongoing process? What are the linguistic roots of the word "holy," and how do these connect with language and ideas we are familiar with today? Is "holiness" achieved or uncovered, revealed? How have these concepts affected Latter-day Saint lives? What teachings and emphases come the closest, and which miss the mark? These questions and many other aspects of holiness come forth in this wide-ranging but focused discussion among friends. We hope you will tune in for it!

Today’s show focuses on the Prosocial movement, a network of people who are studying and testing and putting into action practices guided by principles that put people first. Our guest, Jordan Harmon, a therapist with strong Latter-day Saint roots who practices in Utah, is part of this movement and brings it into focus for those of us who may never have encountered it. In the process, we learn what study has shown to be key factors in the success of groups whose goals are focused on the well-being of people, the biosphere, and this planet with its limited resources. He draws us into the work taking place in many fields, including his own, and leads us through the movement’s guiding principles. In the final third of the discussion, he and Latter-day Faith host Dan Wotherspoon turn their attention to religion and how certain ideas, ideals, concepts, and phrases might align with prosocial notions and practices. And, of course, as they discuss religion, Mormonism and some of its notions make their appearance. Listen in! You will learn a lot and find yourself chewing on many of the conversation’s wonderful morsels.

Many of us understand the basic structure of what Joseph Campbell has named "the hero's journey" and the wrestles and transformations it requires. But one element that is usually underemphasized is the final step in the journey, which is when the hero returns to community. In most cases, the journeyer comes back to the society and culture she or he had left, but even in the cases when it isn't back where they began, their journey isn't complete until they bring their transformed selves back to the real world, back into community. They left "home" because their society was sick, but now, through their journeying, they have obtained the secret elixir, some sort of healing knowledge and power that can overcome the disease and inspire others to go find it for themselves. In this terrific conversation, Stephen Carter joins LDF host Dan Wotherspoon to discuss various aspects of the hero's return. Does the hero have to physically leave her or his community in order to complete their journey? And if they can't or do not want to separate physically, what sort of things are helpful in assisting them in gaining a different kind of distance and some breathing room to do their healing and gain new perspectives? How will the hero know they are ready to fully reintegrate into community? Are there clear internal signals for them to watch for? This episode also contains an intriguing take on "judgment." How does a lens of judgment affect our experience in community, as well as in our healing work?  Listen in! You will be glad you did!

Elder Bruce R. McConkie once proclaimed, “Obedience is the first law of heaven,” which is an interesting statement when compared with Jesus’s declaration that the first of all laws is love. Has the modern Church followed Elder McConkie’s path, overemphasizing obedience over love? More recently, President Russell M. Nelson has proclaimed that “Obedience brings blessings, and exact obedience brings miracles.”  All of this is interesting for when we examine that actual scriptural meaning of “obedience” we find that it means nearly the opposite from claims like this. Can we turn “obedience” into mindfulness and love?  This episode explores the dangers of “exact obedience” and the joys of turning obedience upside down. Listen in on this conversation between two Faith Journey Foundation chairs: Mark Crego and Dan Wotherspoon

We all live our lives within mythic structures, and we always will. But early on, as James Fowler states, we take these overarching stories as literally true (he names his Stage 2 "Mythic-Literal"). Then life, in ways that we can comprehend, serves up alternate mythologies. We begin to see the stories of others as genuine options for us to adopt, or to at least appreciate deeply. In that dilemma of seeing more than one story or mythic framing being as capable of leading people to experience rich and joyful lives, with strong values and a dynamic sense of purpose, we must begin to shift our perspective. We are now forced to see our myths as "value stories" rather than factual truth, and as we do so we begin to enter into a new relationship with them. Making this shift is extremely difficult. At first, most of us want to hide or re-cocoon ourselves solely within our story as being THE right or best one. This transition toward comfort with our overarching stories and sense of the world/universe/purpose as being mythic can take a very long time. But it is a shift worth making, because all of a sudden the world and universe come alive for us in ways we can’t, in our fearful modes, imagine. Now we find ourselves playing on a much larger stage, and the call for us to embark upon the hero’s journey, the quest to overcome what scares us or holds us back, becomes louder. It is likewise only through such journeys that we can heal ourselves, which then allows us to heal the communities we are part of.  In this episode, my wonderful friend Charles Randall Paul (Randy) and I dive deeply into the importance and value of myth (debunking any thought of it as “not true”) and the excitement of being in a broader world in which we are now able to be creators and teachers and livers of our highest values and experience harmony between our old and ever-emerging selves in ways that enliven our family and community bonds and experiences and, hopefully, model for others the boons of these journeys into the unknown that lead us back transformed in powerful ways. I hope you’ll join us in this important conversation, our attempt to assist us all in “unlearning” any pejorative thoughts about myth as being less powerful or vital than “facts.” I also hope you’ll find attractive, as well, what we do in the sections that help bring alive gorgeous aspects of Mormonism’s foundational myths. This episode was originally aired June 26, 2019. It is definitely worth revisiting! The image above is a representation of the Judgment of Paris, a foundational Greek myth discussed in the episode.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints makes many claims about the importance of priesthood. It also claims that conferral of the priesthood is only to be given to men, only needed by men, not women. Why is that? Yet when LDS leaders actually talk about priesthood's power in relation to men's spirituality and the special gifts it holds, their messaging seems to be describing things that are good qualities and attributes for all people, for anyone who seeks to be a good disciple of Christ. So what is it about men that they need the priesthood boost whereas women don't? What do men lack that seems to be inherent in women? In the spirit of inquiry and clarity rather than in service of an agenda related to priesthood conferral upon and ordination for women, this episode features a discussion about such things between Ian Thomsen and LDF host Dan Wotherspoon. They discuss specific messages by leaders as well as the kinds of explanations one often hears in LDS circle that employ some form of "gender essentialism," which hinges on essential differences between men and women, as part of the reasoning. Yet no real explanation for a men-only priesthood emerges when pressed. Such things are usually asserted rather than examined or argued for. Ultimately, this sort of approach to justifying the exclusion of women from priesthood (essentially saying they already have the spiritual qualities and don't need ordination) leads to a need to really ask fresh what, exactly, is priesthood? Is priesthood "power" distinct from priesthood "authority"? Do our current teachings about priesthood rely on scriptural precedent? Do practices from early LDS history and within Mormonism's own scriptural record match with what we see today regarding a universal priesthood for all men? Is there a place for non-priesthood-ed men within the church? Is that even conceivable within today's church assumptions? What role do cultural notions, especially older ones, play in keeping us today from asking important questions in these and other areas? If we are here on earth to thrive and grow spiritually and ultimately develop as God has, it sure would be helpful to understand what priesthood is.  Listen in! These are important things to think about.

At the end of last week, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned the long-standing right to bodily autonomy for women, including the right to medical abortion. With the end of the protections put forth in Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey, we are now entering a time in which each state has the right to determine when to allow abortion legally. The ruling was lauded by some, including many Latter-day Saints, and it was met with anger and devastation by many who champion reasonable access to abortion. How might we as Latter-day Saints improve our understanding of the issues and strong feelings held by proponents on both sides of the debate? What does our religion say about the reasons that we are here on earth and how God acts in the universe and with us individually? Most surveys of Latter-day Saints suggest that they are primarily pro-life, but what are some LDS principles that guide those who take a pro-choice stance? How does this position fit within their wider spirituality, as well? Does Mormonism's theology of God entail sensibilities that give more room to its adherents than what is typically entailed in the God described by wider Christianity? In this episode, LDF host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by the wonderful and powerful Jody England Hansen and Jana Spangler in the discussion outlined above. Listen in!

Following up on last week's episode about different ways that ideas or things can be "true," in this show LDF host Dan Wotherspoon is joined by his Faith Journey Foundation partner and longtime friend Mark Crego to discuss other aspects of what "true" can mean. Here the focus moves primarily to "true" when it comes to people, families, members of our congregations, and others. Dan and Mark also spend some time on the issue of "exclusivity" when it comes to propositional truth claims as well as individuals. What shall we do when some entity or person is described as the "only" way to salvation, one's one and only true love, and so forth. In that section, Mark introduces us to great ideas and phrasings from Marcus Borg and John Hick. Please enjoy! Tell others about this discussion!