The Soloist Life

It’s a conundrum: we know stories help make us better communicators, but we’ve also been told that too much personality “just isn’t appropriate” in a B2B context. Communication specialist Camille DePutter tells us exactly how to use storytelling to make an impact as a soloist.We talk about:Why storytelling is leaning into your thoughts, ideas, opinions, unique perspective and experiences.The questions that will help you uncover your best stories (and the role shame may have played in keeping a challenging story untold).Being both authentic and effective as a storyteller (hint: there is no one else exactly like you isn’t just a cheesy line).How to not only excavate your best stories, but refine and polish them.Why you might want to develop a story vault—and how to get started.LINKSCamille DePutter | Website | LinkedIn | Instagram Rochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramGUEST BIOCamille DePutter is a storytelling specialist who helps high-performing individuals communicate better. Through her work as a communications coach, consultant, and writer/editor, Camille helps her clients express themselves effectively and authentically, so they can level-up their leadership, build their reputation, and make the impact they were born to make. Her client portfolio includes internationally-recognized brands, Olympic Gold medalists, world champion athletes, and highly respected founders, industry disruptors, and thought leaders. Camille hosts the Storytelling with Heart podcast, is the author of two books, including Share Your Story: A Storytelling Workbook, and publishes regularly at camilledeputter.comBOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLERESOURCES FOR SOLOISTS10 Ways To Grow Revenue As A Soloist (Without Working More Hours): most of us have been conditioned to work more when we want to grow revenue—but what if we just worked differently?The Soloist Women community: a place to connect with like-minded women (and join a channel dedicated to your revenue level).The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 - 00:31Camille DePutter: It can be very easy to feel like, oh well, no, I need to speak professionally, or I need to follow this template that other people are saying, or I need to say it this way because that's what other people are saying, or they're telling me that's how I have to talk to my audience, or even I need to care so much about my audience that I forget about myself and I want you to be able to bring yourself into this whole process because a I care about you and it's more fun this way but b also00:31 - 00:35Camille DePutter: it's actually more effective. So it all works together.00:40 - 00:59Rochelle Moulton: Hello, hello. Welcome to Soloist Women, where we're all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I'm Rachelle Moulton, and today I'm here with Camille de Putter who helps high-performing individuals level up their storytelling so they can make the difference they want to make. Camille, welcome.01:00 - 01:07Camille DePutter: Hello Rochelle, thank you so much for being here. Or I guess that was my own podcast. See what01:07 - 01:12Rochelle Moulton: happens when we podcast is like, we forget which side of the mic we're on. It's so funny.01:12 - 01:19Camille DePutter: This is my podcaster positioning just autopilot. Sorry about that.01:20 - 01:54Rochelle Moulton: I love it. No worries. So when I first met you Camille, I was really taken by the way that you told your story on the about page of your website. It felt so authentic and real. And then my personal experience with you mirrored that perfectly. So I'm so excited to have you talk more about how to do that for soloists wanting to make an impact. But first, I'd just like to talk to you a little bit about how you got here doing what you do. So what made you decide to start your business?01:55 - 02:36Camille DePutter: So I'm going to kind of tell you 2 stories here as a way to answer that. And I'd say in a way it was sort of a convergence of similar themes. The first reason and more kind of pressing reason of why I decided to go out on my own, I have worked in communications in various aspects of the communications industry. So I did actually freelance a little bit when I was first starting my career. I've worked within agencies, marketing agencies, public relations. I've worked in-house in nonprofit. Public relations, I worked in house, in nonprofit. But eventually02:36 - 03:21Camille DePutter: I became just dissatisfied working for other people, in part because I felt like I was constantly trying or being sort of told to fit in a box, like to do, just do your job. And I would have other ideas or, you know, enthusiasm or passion for how we could do things better or more or differently. And I would look at the organization as a whole and feel strongly about how we could change it or make a bigger impact or do things better or what have you. And eventually I got to a place where I had a03:21 - 03:23Camille DePutter: bad boss. Many people03:23 - 03:25Rochelle Moulton: I think are out there. We can relate.03:26 - 03:55Camille DePutter: Yeah. We, you know, often that can be the kind of tipping point, right? And it certainly was for me where I'm like, I got to get out of here. I have to leave. And in fact, a friend of mine who I sat down with at 1 point and I was just expressing to her the kind of work that I wanted to have and the kind of environment I wanted to work in. And she said, you know, I don't know that you're going to just find that if you really want to make that kind of difference and03:55 - 04:30Camille DePutter: live that kind of life and do that kind of work, you might have to make it up yourself. And that really resonated with me. And I just thought, yeah, that's, that's right. That's what I'm gonna do. And so I quit that job and I started my own business, not with a ton of clarity, not knowing exactly what I was going to do. But as I looked at my resume and I looked at my past experiences and I thought back to myself as a kid and what I've always loved to do. I've always been writing and self04:30 - 05:10Camille DePutter: publishing and making things and I thought, oh, I'm a storyteller. That's what I've been doing my whole life and my whole career. And so I saw already this kind of sort of narrative thread of my life and my life's work. And I thought, okay, I don't know exactly what this is going to look like or how I'm going to do it, but there's something around this and I'm going to go and explore it. So that was the real sort of jumping off point. But there's also another kind of thing that was going on here in my05:10 - 05:54Camille DePutter: life at the same time. And that is the story that I told and that you kind of alluded to that's on my website that was about growing up with a heart condition and that in many ways in my life including with a physical difference that I was born with I have kept a lot to myself. I was not always really open and expressive about who I was and what I was feeling and in particular for years growing up until well into adulthood. I had kept the secret really about first having a heart condition and then my05:54 - 06:23Camille DePutter: experience having a pacemaker. And so I around the same time got on stage and told this story and claimed it and owned it for myself. And so I think that even more than really made me want to commit to sharing my own story, being myself, expressing myself, and helping others do the same.06:24 - 06:46Rochelle Moulton: I have to say, Camille, I know they're still coming back. I got goosebumps hearing you tell that story because it was a secret for you. And uncovering the secret changes dynamics, it changes the energy around it. It's the freedom to feel like, yeah, this is me, accept me as I am.06:47 - 07:29Camille DePutter: Yeah. And that's why I called my business Storytelling with Heart because that was you know it's sort of that dual message. It's like yes I want to bring my passion into what I do and help people express themselves effectively but also authentically. But it was also me saying, I'm not going to hide. My heart, my history, who I am is part of all of this. I'm going to bring that into my work and commit to really doing this kind of stuff truly from the heart, literally and metaphorically.07:30 - 08:06Rochelle Moulton: LB. Literally, Yeah. It's interesting because the last interview I did, we talked about money shame. And I feel like for a lot of us, there's a part of there may be, I don't want to assume there may be a part of our stories that somehow we've applied shame to and for no good reason. Right? Right. And so I'm really struck by that lifting of potential shame and I don't want to put words in your mouth or anybody else's But I think a lot of us have secrets like that. And I'm not talking about deep dark secrets.08:06 - 08:16Rochelle Moulton: I'm talking about things we just don't talk about about our experiences in a business environment. So, yeah, I really want to dig into this some more.08:17 - 08:56Camille DePutter: Yeah, I'm happy to for sure. I mean, I know in my case, absolutely, this was a story that involved shame. It involved something that really could be seen quite neutrally, you know, as like something about myself. But for various reasons, it doesn't really matter what the reason is, you know, I grew up feeling a sense of shame about it. And I had processed a lot of that by the time that I got on stage. It was still difficult to talk about. It's really not difficult to talk about now, although I suppose in any kind of personal08:56 - 09:35Camille DePutter: story, if you want to really get into it, you know, it can be. But I had done a lot of the sort of processing around that shame. So it wasn't super raw, fresh, traumatic, but it was something that was still, it was a place where I was still holding back, the place where I gave the speech was at a motivational speaking kind of event, maybe not quite motivational, but a place for people to come and tell personal stories and some of them, you know, maybe with a bit more of an inspiring bent and the person running09:35 - 10:19Camille DePutter: the Event I had known for years. He was my mentor a former employer we were quite close and he invited me to come and talk about something and I said, oh, I think I want to talk about growing up with a heart condition. And he's like, what? What? There were people in my life close to me who had no idea about this. And I think it's important when we talk about bringing personal stories into the professional, that these stories don't have to be, like you said, the biggest, you know, deep, dark, really heavy stuff. And nor10:19 - 11:01Camille DePutter: does it need to be you know really dramatic or traumatic but often these these things that have happened to you that have been challenging to you or that have shaped you or yes you may feel some discomfort or even a little bit of shame or a fear around are quite likely the things that are going to connect us that somebody else is going to want to hear about because they are actually going to relate to it and there's going to be some relief on their part because they see another human being grappling with the same kinds11:01 - 11:04Camille DePutter: of things that we all grapple with.11:05 - 11:43Rochelle Moulton: Yes, yes. And I think the other piece of that is that those big chunks of our story have helped make us who we are and formed our superpowers. And we don't always understand where our superpowers come from. Sometimes we're just born with them. But other times, the situations in our lives, the stories in our lives are what help to form them. And that's powerful for other people to understand. So it's it's witnessing, yes, but it's also, oh that makes sense. I see why they're so good at X.11:44 - 12:15Camille DePutter: Yeah, absolutely. I mean 1 of the 1 of the things that I often do are kinds of questions or prompts that I will ask clients is like, well, how did you get here? How did you learn that? That thing that you know now or that you care so much about or that you're so good at? Okay, how did you get there? And let's go back and retrace some of the steps. And sure, on the surface you might say, oh well, you know, I have experience in this, or you know, I have education in this. But if12:15 - 13:04Camille DePutter: we really go deeper, there's usually a moment or multiple moments, experiences that shaped that and allowed you to develop that. And those can be large or small. You know, I can talk about for myself as a communicator, as a storyteller, I can share the story of, you know, how sharing a personal story transformed my life and set the tone for my business. But I could also tell you about being a kid and reading Archie comics and writing in to the editor to correct their grammar or complain about the sexism in the Archie comic. And it's like,13:04 - 13:27Camille DePutter: that tells you also something about the fact that I have been, that I have cared about what we say and how we say things my entire life. And so we can kind of go, if we can go back and retrace our steps, then we can likely find lots of stories along the way that will help us show, not just tell who we are and what we're all about.13:28 - 14:02Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. 1 of the things you said when you first started describing how you got into your business was that you saw the narrative thread. And I think that's the thing that sometimes is a sticking point for us because it's, you know, we usually can only understand it looking backwards and we have to really think about it sometimes to see that thread. So I think that's, that's kind of the first challenge, but I'm really impressed that you did it so early in your business journey. Let me just ask you 1 more question about the business and then14:02 - 14:21Rochelle Moulton: let's go all in on storytelling. So do you remember how long it took you to hit your first hundred thousand in revenue? It seems like that tends to be the demarcation line where we start to feel like, yes, have a business, it's going to work, I don't need to worry about this, I just need to keep growing and adjusting.14:22 - 15:06Camille DePutter: Yeah, I think so I started my business halfway through the year. And if I remember correctly, I think I hit it. So the first half of the year, I made some money. And then if we start that next year, January to December, I'm pretty sure I hit it that year. That's awesome. That's awesome. I have to be honest, I have not struggled in the way that freelancers, especially people in writing and communications, I feel like there's sort of this idea that if you're a writer, then you're sort of squeaking by and there's kind of this idea15:06 - 15:34Camille DePutter: of, you know, it being kind of nickel and dime type work. And when I talk to people, especially people who are maybe younger and just thinking about going off on their own. I recognize that we're not all going to have the same experience, but I kind of want people to know, well, this is possible. And you don't have to just take these little teeny little writing jobs and be barely kind of squeaking high.15:35 - 15:42Rochelle Moulton: The dollar a word projects. Right. So did you ever have employees or contractors or have you always been a15:43 - 16:24Camille DePutter: solo? I've certainly used contractors and I do have like I have a virtual assistant for example and I've you know I've worked the odd time very rarely with another writer so on but I right out of the gate I knew I wanted to operate solo do my own thing and that I wasn't trying to be an entrepreneur and create a business that I could then sell or grow to have employees. And there's kind of been some, I have felt at different points, maybe sort of some pressure. Like there's not as many resources or even, I don't16:24 - 16:43Camille DePutter: know, celebration out there of this kind of company of 1. Not that freelancer stuck in, you know, hustle mode, barely getting by, but also not the, you know, person who's trying to grow a business and add employees and, you know, become an agency or something.16:44 - 17:19Rochelle Moulton: There's a lot of, I think of it as societal pressure, at least in the US. I don't know if you find the same in Canada, but there is this idea that, you know, it's not a real business until you have employees or until you have like a physical location. And it's so complex. And there's all sorts of reasons why someone might want to have employees. But there is such a wonderfully fulfilling life as a soloist when you're focused on creating transformations for people that you really care about and making the impact that you want in the17:19 - 17:23Rochelle Moulton: world. So yeah, this is about celebrating the soloist way.17:23 - 17:40Camille DePutter: Yeah, I love it so much. We need more of that. And yeah, like I said, wanting people to know that it's possible. I mean, it feels like this little, you know, like best-kept secret sometimes. Like, how am I getting away with this?17:40 - 18:13Rochelle Moulton: Exactly. It's like almost guilt because I think so many of us have been taught you have to work really, really hard. And if...

Have you noticed how no one talks about what to do financially when your business hits certain milestones—and then you’re left wondering what financial moves make the most sense? CPA Erica Goode is out to change that.We discuss:Building a solid financial base for your brand-new expertise business (and why it’s OK to start with a spreadsheet).How shame around money can keep you from getting the help you need—and why you want to reach out anyway.The value of consistency—in paying yourself a salary, staying current with the IRS and starting to direct funds to the causes you care about.When to think about saving for short and long-term goals, including tax-advantaged retirement.Being aware of your money mindset and where you live on the SPEND to SAVE continuum.LINKSErica Goode | Guide For Coaches + Consultants | LinkedIn | InstagramRochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramGUEST BIOErica Goode, CPA is the host of the Coaches, Consultants, and Money podcast where she helps business owners get their money right. She also runs a virtual accounting firm supporting coaches and consultants with bookkeeping, tax planning, and CFO services. She’s a former Director of Finance at Walgreens and started her career as an auditor at KPMG. Erica also loves avocados and a heavy dose of sarcasm. She lives with her two kids and fellow-CPA husband in the mountains of Idaho.BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLERESOURCES FOR SOLOISTSJoin the Soloist email list: helping thousands of Soloist Consultants smash through their revenue plateau.Soloist Events: in-person events for Soloists to gather and learn.The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 - 00:28Erica Goode: There's a lot of professionals who will tell you how much you need to save, but nobody's holding your feet to the fire per se and nobody's keeping you accountable. So like, it sounds all well and good that, yeah, I should put away $20, 000 a year or whatever that may be. But having somebody come alongside you and say, okay, in July, we're doing 10 and in December, we're doing 10. It's in your cashflow forecast, I think makes the hugest difference in the world.00:32 - 00:57Rochelle Moulton: Hello, hello. Welcome to Soloist    Women, where we're all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I'm Rochelle Moulton, and today I'm here with my pal, Erica Goode. And she is a CPA who runs a virtual accounting firm for coaches and consultants, and she hosts the Coaches, Consultants and Money podcast where she helps business owners get their money right. Erica, welcome. Thanks so much for having00:57 - 01:01Erica Goode: me, Michelle. This is so great.01:01 - 01:15Rochelle Moulton: Well, I am so looking forward to this discussion for like a multitude of reasons. But 1 of them is because I feel like no 1 ever talks about what to do financially when your business hits different milestones, you know, until it's usually too late.01:16 - 01:24Erica Goode: Yeah, yeah, I think that's a huge question I get is, or just some confusion out there of like, what should I be doing first? What should I be doing next?01:24 - 01:41Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, what do you do when? And so what we're going to talk about today is what to do before you have any revenue. And then when you hit your first 150, 000 and then 300, 000. And Erica, I like how you refer to those as revenue toll gates. You guys are really01:41 - 01:47Erica Goode: helpful. Yeah. Yeah, we're all on a journey, and we hit different points around the path.01:47 - 02:11Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. Well, in addition to that, I'd really love for our listeners to hear how you've gotten to this place. Because whenever we talk, whenever I watch you on Instagram or LinkedIn, by the way, follow her. It's hysterical and helpful at the same time. You exude so much happiness for your life and passion for your work. Let's start with what made you decide to start your own business.02:12 - 02:43Erica Goode: Oh, how I got to where I am. I recently said this and it was 1 of those things where people like said it out loud and I heard myself and I was like ooh isn't that the truth I said it's taking me a lot of years and a lot of tears I am very happy nothing fake on social media for me when you see that I appear happy, I'm very happy. I have a long, long, long career corporate career, like I think a lot of the listeners might hear as well. But I came out of college02:43 - 03:26Erica Goode: in a traditional CPA kind of way. I went to Big 4 Public Accounting, spent some time there and what I call Accounting Boot Camp, I did audit there and if anybody's familiar with Big 4 Public Accounting, it is a boot camp for sure, but it teaches you well. And after that, I went to Fortune 50 retailer did corporate finance there, and spent years learning, SPNA, financial planning and analysis and budgeting, and just a whole bunch of the corporate race, if you will. And they came a time where it was just, just time to go home. I03:26 - 04:00Erica Goode: had had some burnout, I had had some come to Jesus moments. And it was just when I left that role it was you know it was a big big time in my career and at that time that I left I was in a good place actually but I had had enough experience in the corporate life to know that this is not what I should be chasing right now. What I really wanted to chase was our then 5 year olds and 1 year old at home. And I just wanted to be very present at home in that04:00 - 04:20Erica Goode: season of life. And so with lots of spreadsheets, and talks with my husband, it was time for me to come home. And he was fully supportive of that. I came home for a few years. And I say I was quote, just mom. Because anybody who is a parent knows that just being mom is still a lot of work.04:21 - 04:22Rochelle Moulton: Full-time plus.04:23 - 04:57Erica Goode: Yes, but I do say that it was easier than juggling both at the same time, a big corporate career and being mom. And so I was really just happy to be home and be present for for our littles and make PBJs and do bus stop pickup. And so I did that for a couple years and really just missed I missed the work. I never left my corporate gig because I didn't like what I was doing. I have been budgeting and forecasting since I was 8 years old. And I did not leave that job because I didn't04:57 - 05:07Erica Goode: like the work. And so I got to a point where I really just missed the accounting, missed the finance aspect of my old career. And so I, you know, accidentally started my own accounting firm, as we do.05:08 - 05:12Rochelle Moulton: Now, how did you wind up in Idaho? Because I know you were in Chicago.05:13 - 05:47Erica Goode: Yes, I'm lifelong Chicago suburbs, went to college in Illinois. And my husband, who also is a CPA, who also started at Big 4 Public Accounting at the same firm, which is how we met. But he was in Idaho, and I was in Chicago, and we just happened to meet at a conference in Florida. And the rest is history. We got married within a couple of years. And so I always say he did my place for 10 years and we're doing his place for however long we left here now in Idaho.05:48 - 06:10Rochelle Moulton: I love that story. You know, all the times we've talked, I never knew when you moved to Idaho and the story behind that. So that's awesome. Yeah. So let's talk revenue for just a minute. Like how long did it take you to hit your first hundred thousand? Like if you were doing it accidentally, like were you not really focused on the revenue but on the work? I mean how did you approach that?06:10 - 06:45Erica Goode: Yeah, it really did happen on accident. I accidentally picked up my first client because it was a coach of my daughters who was then said 6 or 7 years old. And, and I really wasn't worried about making money, we had obviously planned financially for me to not have an income. And so it wasn't a financial need for me to go start a business. It was really just a missed passion. And so I picked up my first client and I honestly back then I had never even looked at QuickBooks. Like I came from a huge corporate background.06:45 - 07:01Erica Goode: I had never seen QuickBooks. I had to learn software. Yeah, I was I was an SAP. I was in BI tool like these big fortune 50 tools. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, I have to learn how to use a bookkeeping program.07:01 - 07:02Rochelle Moulton: Yeah.07:03 - 07:43Erica Goode: And so I did. And so it was really just more of a quiet building of a business. And I didn't do any marketing for probably 3 or 4 years. And that was very intentional because because I had experienced burnout and in my life before that really had to work I was very very diligent and I held my boundaries very strong that I wasn't going to build a business that I had to work outside of when my kids needed me. And so I always said, my business is going to grow as fast as my kids grow. And07:43 - 08:06Erica Goode: we say they grow fast, but when you're trying to build a business, and if that's your cadence, they also grow very slow. And so my business grew very slow intentionally and happily, because I only worked when they were not in the house when they were in preschool when they were in kindergarten. And so every year they grew an age and a grade, I got to work a little more.08:07 - 08:13Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. So more of a stair step, kind of like the kids are growing stair steps. So is your your business and your revenue.08:14 - 08:24Erica Goode: Yeah. And so I probably didn't hit my chance your question. I probably didn't hit my first 100, 000 until 3 or 4 years in the very intentionally because it didn't tell anybody I had a business. I would not tell anybody.08:25 - 08:39Rochelle Moulton: But the other thing is, is you're earning 6 figures and you're not working full time. And when I say full time, I don't mean 40 hours either. I mean, you know, full time in a job job now, nobody works 40 hours. It's always significantly more.08:39 - 09:01Erica Goode: So right. Right. Yeah. And even to this day, I don't I don't work 40 hours. And so I still hold true to I only work with my kids are at school and I also and actually where we live, we only do 4 day work weeks. Like the town works on 4 days in the school operates on 4 days. And so I have to operate on 4 days as well.09:02 - 09:04Rochelle Moulton: Wow, that's, oh that's a whole other conversation.09:04 - 09:07Erica Goode: But I know, yeah it is, fascinating.09:07 - 09:15Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, it is awesome when you can work your life around that. It probably wouldn't be if you had trouble with that fifth day, but that's a whole other topic.09:15 - 09:16Erica Goode: Right.09:16 - 09:42Rochelle Moulton: Okay, so thank you Erica for sharing that. Yeah. So let's, let's get down to the kind of these financial moves that we can make. I hate using the word should, but the things we really want to be smart about. So if a listener is just getting started with their expertise business, just starts having revenue come in, what should she be thinking about?09:43 - 10:01Erica Goode: Yeah, so I think of kind of the toll gates and the path that we should be on as a pyramid that looks like a hierarchy, you know, way back when we would have called it a food pyramid and put all the carbs at the bottom because we needed to eat all the carbs, right? That's how the 80s were. I don't remember. I don't know if you remember that.10:01 - 10:05Rochelle Moulton: Still works that way for me. I'm all about the carbs.10:05 - 10:43Erica Goode: Yeah, I'm going to live in that decade because those are tasty. So what I think of the financial hierarchy of what business owners need, it's really layering that first financial foundation at the bottom. And that being setting up your LLC, getting your business insurance, getting your business bank account, setting up your bookkeeping procedures or process, how whatever you want that to be and really laying that that foundation so that everything you build your business on top of kind of has that solid financial and legal foundation so that everything is safe and solid on top of it.10:43 - 10:58Erica Goode: It's really hard to go back And you almost have to redo everything. If you don't do the LLC, the EIN, all of that seemingly unfun stuff at the beginning, you're going to wind up having to unwind it and rewind it later down the road.10:58 - 11:10Rochelle Moulton: So is the current thinking, like if you're starting your business right now that you want to start with an LLC, like right out of the gate versus, you know, like just doing business hours with a separate account.11:11 - 11:44Erica Goode: I mean, I think it's easier down the road. I think an LLC always protects you legally. And the reason we set up an LLC is because an LLC kind of acts and I'm not getting legal advice here for the record. LLC kind of is a box and everything you put in that box is your business. All of the risk lives in that box. And so should somebody for example, should somebody, I'll use me as an example, should somebody sue me for bad financial advice, they're suing my LLC, not Erica Goodie. And so they can't touch my11:44 - 11:49Erica Goode: house or my cards or my personal assets, they can only touch the assets of that LLC.11:50 - 12:04Rochelle Moulton: Perfectly said. It's like I would be petrified to start a business without putting some kind of a ring around it. A ring of protection is kind of how I think about it. Okay, so the LLC you mentioned, insurance?12:05 - 12:23Erica Goode: Insurance, so if LLCs protect your personal assets, your business insurance protects your business assets. So the 2 of those are kind of like your, I don't know, powerhouse twins that kind of protect you on both sides of your of your now life. You have a personal life and a business life and you want both of those to be protected.12:24 - 12:39Rochelle Moulton: And so when people are just starting out, like are you typically recommending that they have like long term disability insurance, some kind of, you know, business interruption, loss, liability insurance, Like what do you usually recommend right at the beginning?12:40 - 13:14Erica Goode: Yeah, I mean, again, I'm not an insurance salesman by any means, but I think just having a general liability professional insurance coverage just to kind of house what you're doing. Some professions have specific coverage like CPAs need E&O insurance and if you're a coach who's also a therapist you might need malpractice insurance And so there's different professions that might need additional items specifically, but in general, I would say a good professional general liability policy is going to cover you at the beginning.13:15 - 13:42Rochelle Moulton: Well, I think the other thing like we just have to tackle right now is the bookkeeping side because it just feels like so many people start the business and it's not till tax time in their first year that they start to go, oh, what do I do? And God forbid if it's a shoebox full of receipts, right? What do I do now? So how do you, how should people start with the bookkeeping process at the very beginning stages of their business?13:42 - 14:15Erica Goode: Yeah, I'm probably going to be the only CPA who says this. It's okay to start with a spreadsheet. I mean, we all start somewhere, and I think especially in an expertise business where you don't have heavy cost of sales and you don't have heavy expenses, I think a spreadsheet, if that's what you're comfortable with, is perfectly fine to track where your revenue is coming in, what expenses are going out. If you've gone ahead and gotten a business bank account that makes it super extra easy because everything in and out of your business is just filtering through14:15 - 14:16Erica Goode: 1 bank account.14:16 - 14:47Rochelle Moulton: I like the idea of starting with a spreadsheet. When I started a little side business a while ago, that's what I started with, was just a spreadsheet because it was an easy way between that and the bank account. I could figure out what was there. But Once you start to get more revenue, what I like personally is I love watching, whether it's QuickBooks or FreshBooks or whatever platform somebody uses, I love watching all those little expenses go into the right categories and being able to just click on a report whenever I want.14:48 - 15:04Erica Goode: Yes, I mean, I love I love a good accounting software. That's me. And that's why I say it's okay to start with a spreadsheet. I get a lot of clients who come to me embarrassed that they have a spreadsheet like, oh, I just have a spreadsheet. I'm like, no, no, no, you have a spreadsheet. That's fantastic.15:05 - 15:07Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, it's probably more than a lot of people start with. Yes.15:07 - 15:35Erica Goode: I find it especially women will come to me with a little bit of shame, a little bit of their shoulders up, and a little embarrassed that they have a spreadsheet, which is ironically usually far better than what their male counterparts are coming to me with. And so it's so interesting that like, as women, we like, expect

If you’re like most of us in the soloist expertise space, you probably think of SEO—if you bother with it at all—as picking the right keywords so that maybe you’ll get discovered in a google search. But marketing consultant Sarah Moon has a different take.We explore:Why SEO is not the mysterious, robotic box we’ve heard about—and a new way we can think about it.How to discover—and capitalize on—the big questions your audience is asking when they search.When SEO can help you discover a new audience you didn’t even know existed.The three key elements of game-changing SEO for knowledge businesses.Aligning your authority not only with your vision and point of view, but with what your ideal clients and buyers are searching for.LINKSSarah Moon | Special Soloist Women Page | Newsletter | Website | LinkedIn | Instagram Rochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramGUEST BIOSarah Moon is a Portland, Oregon-based marketing and business strategist on a mission to rethink modern marketing so it works for us—instead of making us miserable. She's known for her unique knowledge of SEO and how solo consultants and "personal brands" can leverage this underutilized approach to get found and make an impact. She founded Sarah Moon & Co by mistake in 2008 after a layoff from a cushy public sector public relations job and never looked back.Outside of work, Sarah is a servant to two Australian Shepherds and is an avid cyclist, bread baker, standup paddleboarder, and local food nerd.BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLERESOURCES FOR SOLOISTSJoin the Soloist email list: helping thousands of Soloist Consultants smash through their revenue plateau.Soloist Events: in-person events for Soloists to gather and learn.The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 - 00:29Sarah Moon: Nothing makes me more excited when I see someone sort of take something that I have said like, hey, this we can do this better. And they play off of what I've said and kind of make it their own. It's like that. That's that impact that just, yes, obviously I want to make a good living. I want to have a life that's enjoyable and comfortable. I want to be able to buy my dogs a fancy dog food. And yet I want other people to kind of take ideas and make them their own and continue that impact. And00:29 - 00:31Sarah Moon: for me, that's part of how wealth is defined.00:37 - 01:02Rochelle Moulton: Hello, hello. Welcome to Soloist Women, where we're all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I'm Rochelle Moulton, and today I'm here with Sarah Moon, who I think of as the movement marketing champion for people like us who are leading revolutions. And she is on a mission to rethink modern marketing so it works for us instead of making us miserable. Sarah, welcome.01:03 - 01:26Sarah Moon: Thank you. That made me sound really fancy. You are. You're fancy. You're fancy. I am on a mission though. That is something I feel so strongly about because I hear so many people say, Oh, I hate marketing. I hate marketing. I'm like, I don't hate marketing. I love talking about the stuff I care about. And then when I say that to people, they're like, wait, that's marketing. I'm like, uh-huh. It is.01:27 - 02:01Rochelle Moulton: Exactly. The new definition. So 1 of the reasons that I asked you to join me is that is really what you have to say about SEO for Soluis because I've you know beyond thinking about choosing smart keywords I've always thought of SEO as a thing that product-based businesses use or like truly local service businesses like you know say a plumber but as you know in the last couple of months I've been reading what you have to say on this and you've been changing my mind, which I love. Yes. So I'm excited to dive in and see02:01 - 02:17Rochelle Moulton: if we can't open some eyes to SEO. But first, just as kind of an introduction, I believe our listeners want to hear a little bit about how you got here doing what you do now. So maybe we could just start with like, what made you decide to start your business?02:18 - 02:54Sarah Moon: Well, I'd never decided to start a business. And I don't know if you've heard this kind of story before. I bet you have. I was 1 of the many, many, many victims of the 2008 financial crisis. I had a great career in public sector communications. So I had fancy job titles like communications director, public information officer, those kinds of things, working in the public sector, helping the communities that I worked in understand various issues that impacted them by using media. It was the beginning of social media doing a little bit of that. I wrote my city's02:54 - 03:06Sarah Moon: first social media policy. So doing a lot of that. And then in 2008, basically the public sector was hit really hard and I, you know, everyone looks around, they're like, we got to get rid of the marketing people. What do they do?03:08 - 03:09Rochelle Moulton: Always the first to go, right?03:10 - 03:47Sarah Moon: And I was just, you know, I'd been lucky enough to kind of be have like very fast acceleration of my career. And that was very humbling to go from kind of like this sort of young star to like no job. It sucked. I mean, I wish I could be like, it was such a great learning experience. No, it sucked. But what I discovered was because I'd always been experimenting with new ways of helping people get the information they needed, whether it be blogs or it was very early in using Twitter. We played with Twitter for our03:47 - 04:27Sarah Moon: bureau, things like that. And I was like, well, this is, I have some interesting knowledge. And I started applying for jobs and it was brutal out there because it was the economic collapse, really. And so I actually was able to pitch my previous employer on a project and did a project for them. And so I kind of did that like, I guess I'm a freelancer now. And we've always thinking like, well, when the right thing came along, I would jump back in to what I was doing. And that never happened. And so my business, it's interesting04:27 - 04:57Sarah Moon: because when I started out, I was doing a lot of basically various marketing strategy consulting. And as that progressed, I started doing a lot more work more very much on the digital side and more execution, which I'm gonna be really honest, execution is not my top strength. I'm a strategist at heart. And actually slowly kind of accidentally built up almost an agency model. I had a handful of employees. I realize I bet you understand this story.04:57 - 05:02Rochelle Moulton: I totally do. I totally see that. So you had actual employees, not contractors.05:03 - 05:04Sarah Moon: You had employees.05:04 - 05:05Rochelle Moulton: Yes, actual employees.05:05 - 05:05Sarah Moon: And are you05:05 - 05:06Rochelle Moulton: saying past tense had?05:07 - 05:39Sarah Moon: Yes. Yes. Okay. I technically have 2 employees, but 1 of them is me and the other 1 is my husband. So now. So I don't think we count. And sort of had this agency model that was, I think, quite successful, but it did kind of send me professionally down a direction that was less that me doing that consulting stuff, which I'm really good at, the consulting and the strategy and the really creative problem solving into a lot more of this rolling out work. And I was like, I need to get back to what I really am05:39 - 05:56Sarah Moon: awesome at and started emphasizing the Sarah time really being focused on that strategy. And over the last couple of years, that side of the business, I was like, wait, this is what people want. People were literally telling me, Hey, this is what we want from you. Yes. That's the05:56 - 06:07Rochelle Moulton: G zone, right? Because we think you have to do certain things to grow your business. But then your people start saying, no, no, no, no, we don't want that from you. We want this thing.06:08 - 06:41Sarah Moon: That is such a gift. It absolutely is. And I love that I have been so fortunate to work with really wonderfully aligned humans, many of whom have worked with me for many, many years. So they do tell me these things and they stay in touch and are like, oh, I'm so excited about what you're doing. I can't wait to get in on this and that kind of thing. So, you know, as that agency model is people moved on, I didn't replace them and brought in, you know, contractors to service some of the clients we had like06:41 - 07:17Sarah Moon: on a smaller scale. And so now it's kind of scaled back down, which I think in sort of the business world, sometimes people think of in a negative way, which bothers me a lot. But I know this is a safe place to talk about, because what I'm doing now is really actually very much back to my roots 15 years ago, which is really having the space and time to help clients develop really creative strategies that actually work for them and leverage their strengths. I have a lot to say about that. And 1 of the things though,07:17 - 07:51Sarah Moon: in that time of that more agency life of this business was I really started figuring out some great ways for my clients to expand their visibility and for me to expand my visibility using the search engine and or using the data that the search engine was telling us. And that kind of got to be something I was really known for. So it kind of all coalesced a couple of years ago in this methodology that I use now. And that's how we got that. They said that pretty quickly, actually. Go me. Yeah.07:51 - 08:09Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, like 15 years in a nanosecond. So just 1 more question before we dive into the SEO. So I'm asking everybody this because it's so fascinating, the diversity of answers. So do you remember how long it took you to hit your first 100, 000? And if that was like before you had employees or after?08:09 - 08:46Sarah Moon: Yes, it was before. It was just me. And I was trying to remember this the other day because someone asked me and I changed bookkeeping systems. So I'm like, I can't look that up. I'm going to have to guess. In my mind, it was probably pretty far along. Like, because I also missed I skipped the step, the part of the story where I had a part-time job for 3 years, doing writing. And so that was, I don't, that time was weird. So I think it was at the year after I left that part-time job. So 408:46 - 08:47Sarah Moon: or 5 years.08:47 - 08:47Rochelle Moulton: So I'm08:47 - 09:00Sarah Moon: going to put it up. Yeah. So it was the year, it was that year that leaving that kind of safety net, which was really scary was actually I had 2 part-time jobs because I forgot about how the first 7 years I had a part-time college teaching job as well.09:03 - 09:28Rochelle Moulton: Well, you know, everything after 2007, 2008, I mean, it was just, yeah, there was a weird time. Yeah, we all did some weird things then. I hear you. I totally hear you. Okay, well, let's get down to SEO for soloists because I think we might change a few minds here, maybe blow a few minds here. Do you want to start with this basic description of SEO just so that we're all on the same page?09:28 - 09:51Sarah Moon: So when you hear people talk about SEO, what they generally mean is they want to get found in Google. And that's the most possible basic way of saying it. Now when I ask people for more information beyond that, they will say something like, Well, what I want is if someone Googles business coach, I wanna come up. And I'll say like,09:51 - 09:53Rochelle Moulton: okay. That's a tough 1.09:53 - 10:23Sarah Moon: Yeah. Oh, you know what my answer is. That's a tough 1. And also I would argue they don't actually wanna come up when someone is Googling business coach, because the person who is the intention, this is where the fun part of this is, the person who is just at those, like, I want a business coach stage, they actually don't have a lot of clarity on what they want to get out of that experience. So my argument is, actually, that's kind of not where you want to put your efforts anyway in the search engine because you want10:23 - 10:53Sarah Moon: to be reaching someone who knows the results they want to get. They know what the outcomes they want to get. And so when I talk about SEO, I talk about it very much deep into understanding your audience and their intention and what they need and all that kind of stuff. But at its core, what it is, is if someone is doing a search of some sort, whether it's in Google or YouTube, because that's a whole part of the search engine as well, or even image searches, that's the results that come up. I do want to say10:53 - 11:12Sarah Moon: that about 90% of online experiences start in a search engine. The reality is that most of our audiences, when they have a question, they're going to Google first. So that's something to keep in mind too. I'm like, that's the reality we live in. We may as well figure out how to make it work for us.11:13 - 11:38Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. You know, when we were emailing back and forth, you made this comment that search engines aren't just for discovery. We can use search data to help us better understand our audiences and their intention and then develop messages that take flight through that work. I call this SEO-fueled movement marketing. So talk some more about that, would you?11:40 - 12:11Sarah Moon: Yeah, so this is such an interesting thing because often when I work one-on-one with clients, What I'll do is I have a whole bunch of software subscriptions that make understanding what's going on in the search engine easier. And I will often pull 1 of those up and I'll plug in just some basic words that I'll ask a client. So what are some of the big questions people ask you when you first talk about your subject matter. So not things like how much does this cost, but more around subject matter expertise. And let's plug them in and12:11 - 12:21Sarah Moon: see what people are asking this Google, because sometimes when people are asking Google and what people are asking us are 2 really different things because we're embarrassed to ask the professional sort of our basic questions.12:23 - 12:24Rochelle Moulton: That's juicy. Right?12:24 - 13:03Sarah Moon: And it's true. It's absolutely true. Like when I was hiring an intellectual property attorney to help me with some trademark stuff. Do you know how much Googling I did so I didn't look like a ding-dong when I was talking to her? So what's interesting is it's almost like a chance to eavesdrop on what people are asking the search engine. And so for example, I was talking to a client yesterday and we were looking, she's a fellow marketer, and we were looking up information around marketing is actually a very interesting keyword in general to start digging into,13:03 - 13:39Sarah Moon: we're like, let's see if what you think your people know and what the data is telling us are aligned. Well, it turns out that her folks are at actually a much more, they need a lot more foundational information than she thought they did. So a lot of them don't have, they think that marketing is posting on Facebook. Like that's, they're like marketing. Yeah, I do my posts and that's not marketing. So they don't even the idea of having a strategy, they think that's actually just action steps. So that's what that keyword data told us is basically13:39 - 14:02Sarah Moon: like, oh, a strategy is a checklist. So she was speaking at this level that was assuming sophistication and knowledge that her people didn't have. And that doesn't mean that it's time for her to dumb down her message. It's actually time for her to add more context around her messaging so that people feel that she is someone who can actually help them understand and make progress towards their goals.14:03 - 14:21Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking about that. I mean, what an interesting use of SEO. I mean, it's sort of like, when I say inbound, I don't mean like inbound marketing, but it's like you're taking what's coming in versus pushing stuff out. It's, you're actually using it to decide what to do.14:21 - 14:55Sarah Moon: Love that. Exactly. And yeah, I have a lot of clients who are web designers because that was a service that we used to offer. And they saw that I had a successful web design product that did really well and was very successful. So I actually have a lot of clients that I help with marketing strategies for their web design business. That is a fascinating 1 to start looking at the keywords. My clients will think that their potential clients have a lot of understanding of what they need in a website, what content goes on the website. Yeah,14:55 - 15:27Sarah Moon: I know. What platforms to use. And then when you look at the data, it's like someone's like, you see all these searches like do I need a website redesign or a website refresh? And I was again, having a conversation this week where this is what we pulled up and my client was like, oh, I never thought to explain which 1 of those is, and this is a person who offers both of those options and never thought to explain those 2 because it seemed like someone would already know which they need, but they...

Over nine years, Laurel Scherer built her digital marketing agency to a highly engaged and talented team of seven employees. In 2023, she decided to go solo—she shares her experiences with shedding employees for the freedom and flexibility of a solo business.We dive into:The day-to-day realities of running a firm with employees.How having employees impacted revenue and profit growth plus the owner’s personal bottom line.The emotional, cognitive and time commitment of being responsible for employees, their career growth and the underlying business.The pleasant surprises from shifting daily responsibilities for an agency of employees to a solo model.LINKSLaurel Scherer | Website | LinkedInRochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramGUEST BIOLaurel started her professional life as an Air Force public affairs officer, working in internal communications and media relations, then managing the consolidation of several hundred base websites into a single news and information site for the AF. Ultimately, she decided to depart from her original career path, and moved to the Blue Ridge Mountains, where she began a far less predictable endeavor, starting a web development business.Over the next several years, she grew her small operation into a 7-person digital marketing agency. Then, in 2022, she shifted gears again, and slowly scaled the agency back down. Now she's a soloist, focusing on why she started this journey in the first place.BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLERESOURCES FOR SOLOISTS10 Ways To Grow Revenue As A Soloist (Without Working More Hours): most of us have been conditioned to work more when we want to grow revenue—but what if we just worked differently?The Soloist Women community: a place to connect with like-minded women (and join a channel dedicated to your revenue level).The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 - 00:16Rochelle Moulton: My new definition of wealth is money, revenue, money, time, and flexibility. So what you just picked up is a form of wealth that you didn't have before, which is the flexibility to make decisions you might not have been able to make before.00:17 - 00:33Laurel Scherer: Right, and that's the irony is you go into business to have that flexibility, and then you grow an agency and realize that you really don't have nearly as much of it as you do if you're working more independently and collaboratively without the responsibility of the employees.00:38 - 01:03Rochelle Moulton: Hello, hello. Welcome to Soloist  Women, where we're all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I'm Rochelle Moulton, and today I'm here with Laurel Shearer who built a seven-person digital marketing agency but decided to convert to a soloist model, a process that she literally just finished a few days before we're doing this recording. Laurel, welcome.01:04 - 01:06Laurel Scherer: Hi, thanks for shell. Thanks for having me.01:06 - 01:39Rochelle Moulton: Well, 1 of the many reasons I wanted to have you on the show, Laurel, is your experience of shedding employees to go solo. So, you know, I really appreciate your willing willingness to come talk about it as it's kind of almost unfolding in front of us. And plus, I'd really love for our listeners to hear how you've gotten to this place. Because I suspect that you're not alone amongst expertise business owners who built an employee model. I've heard this more than once, and I felt it myself when I did my first business with employees. So why01:39 - 01:45Rochelle Moulton: don't we start with what made you decide to start your own business in the first place? And when was that?01:45 - 02:26Laurel Scherer: The business that I've had, the agency that I've had, I started actually in 2014. I had been working as a freelancer, web developer for several years before that. And at that point, I was also running a different type of company, a photography and action photography business. But I realized that I was a great developer, but I really sucked at design. And I needed some design help. And I started partnering with a designer and decided that it was time to ask him to join forces with me. And so it just kind of started out that way as02:26 - 02:30Laurel Scherer: a two-person agency, 1 designer and 1 developer, and it grew from there.02:30 - 02:35Rochelle Moulton: Wow. Were they typically employees versus contractors?02:36 - 02:51Laurel Scherer: Yes. I've done a lot of collaboration over the years, but I did grow this as a payroll employee business, which sometimes I second guess and is a good part of the reason why I am now downsizing.02:53 - 03:03Rochelle Moulton: Well before we talk about that, let's talk about revenue. So how long did it take you to hit your first hundred thousand in your current business?03:03 - 03:08Laurel Scherer: We hit a hundred thousand in our second year with the 2 of us.03:09 - 03:17Rochelle Moulton: And from there did you plateau at all or was it more of a steady climb you know because you're bringing in new employees of course?03:18 - 03:44Laurel Scherer: Yeah it was a fairly I mean in my mind it was a slower than I might have liked climb, but it was fairly steady. So I guess it would have been year 3 that we brought on a second developer. And that was mostly because I was the only developer and was becoming a bit of a bottleneck for projects. My designer could design faster than I could develop and run the business.03:45 - 04:16Rochelle Moulton: So when I think about having employees, I always think the revenue line is interesting, because there's the revenue line and the profit line. And when we're soloists, those 2 lines are usually pretty close together, but not so much when we have employees. So how did your profit change as you added employees? I mean, when you thought about your own income, were you kind of steady? Or did you have more of a personal up and down depending on, you know, revenue and your employee volume?04:17 - 04:46Laurel Scherer: Oh, it was definitely very up and down for me personally. I was able to maintain a fairly steady salary with small incremental increases, but there were certainly times when I had to not take a salary for a short period of time as we grew. But I always managed to make it up by the end of the year. But I would say as I added employees, revenue grew quite steadily, but profits did not.04:47 - 04:49Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, that's the rub, isn't04:50 - 05:15Laurel Scherer: it? Yeah, definitely. We were profitable in most years, but we added a second designer in year 4, an SEO strategist in year 5, a junior developer and sales guy in year 6. And you know, it's just every time you have more mouths to feed the profit margins certainly don't tend to grow quickly, I guess, at least not in my case.05:15 - 05:35Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. So did you ever find yourself frustrated with your bottom line even when your top line's looking pretty amazing? Like if you're growing year over year, that feels good. But the bottom line, so when you paid yourself a salary, did you have profits left over most years or was it more just you know 0 sum?05:35 - 05:49Laurel Scherer: Honestly it was it was enough profit left over to over the years to build a rainy day fund but it wasn't enough to really take a lot out of it as a business owner until the downsizing began.05:50 - 05:53Rochelle Moulton: And when did the downsizing begin actually?05:54 - 06:27Laurel Scherer: 2019 was an interesting year because my sixth hire really didn't even last a full year. That just turned out to not be a great fit, the junior developer. And then of course in, yeah, so I guess I got down to 6 people in that year. And then in 2020, of course the pandemic hit and I had to let our sales guy go. So that put us down to 5. And at that point I determined that I was gonna stay at 5. I didn't have a desire to try to grow the agency anymore. I was feeling very,06:27 - 06:52Laurel Scherer: as most agency owners are, I think very overworked and stressed out because that comes with the territory when you have employees to be responsible for. Part of that profit equation is that I really had a strong desire to try to increase salaries for my employees as much as I could year over year. And so some of our increased revenue went to that.06:53 - 06:57Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. Well, I mean, you share the wealth, right, on some level.06:58 - 07:19Laurel Scherer: Yeah, absolutely. And I just had such a 1 really rewarding thing for me is just what a wonderful team I had. The 5 of us really enjoyed working together and I always wanted to do my best to make sure that I was using the revenues as well as I could to increase their pay. And so that's where I put my priority.07:20 - 07:56Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. And frankly, I'm really happy to hear that, right? Because, you know, we're focusing on soloists here, but when we take on employees, I've always felt like we have a duty, you know, beyond the legal duties, but we have like a moral and ethical responsibility and duty when we take people on. And that's the thing that nobody really talks about, but that can really weigh on you. Like during a pandemic, how do you take care of your people when something bad happens in 1 of their lives, how do you replace them at the office with and07:56 - 08:18Rochelle Moulton: still keep them part of the firm going forward. It's, you know, I think this is the thing people just don't really talk about. And was that part of your decision-making process? You just get to the point where you said, I don't want to worry about this anymore? Or how did you decide to skinny down your business more once you got to the 5?08:19 - 09:04Laurel Scherer: To be perfectly honest, 1 key event really happened at the end of 2021. And I will say at that point, I was kind of been doing this long enough. I was tired, but really working hard to continue to increase that revenue. And at the end of 2021, my lead developer found another job doing something strictly in a technology that he had started to take our agency in the direction of using. And I was pretty devastated by that news having such a small tight-knit team at the time. But I very quickly came to the realization after that,09:04 - 09:36Laurel Scherer: kind of getting through the emotional part of that with the team and also thinking about the impact of him leaving. I pretty quickly got through that phase and It was a no-brainer for me to say I'm not hiring another. I'm not hiring replacement for him I'm going to use contract developer help from this point forward and I am a developer And I've always known how to get the right person for the right job so that's the direction that I decided to go in at that point. And then the rest of it was pretty organic, fortunately for09:36 - 10:14Laurel Scherer: me, because I didn't want to just close down the agency or try to sell it or anything at that point. But I talked to the team, the 4 of us that were left and we decided we would go through the rest of the year with having contract support and me not replacing this lead developer. And then everybody was okay with that, although it was a tight-knit team, like I said, so it was tough for them because they really enjoyed working together. Then a few months later, my creative director, who's the first hire that I made, also10:14 - 10:44Laurel Scherer: departed. The rest of the team was pretty frustrated by that after he had, you know, kind of agreed to stay on for the year. But at the end of the day, that put us down to 3. And it was 3 women, which was fantastic. And we worked really great together. And there was just a lot of transparency and open conversation between us from that point forward. And I told them that I thought we should go through the rest of the year with the 3 of us and make a decision at the end of the year. I10:44 - 11:19Laurel Scherer: wasn't gonna make that decision on my own. So I kind of let it go through the rest of the year. We agreed we'd meet in the fall of 2022, which we did. And I kind of knew what was going to happen. I knew that 1 of them was going to want to go and 1 of them was going to want to stay. And that's exactly how it played out. So, we began 2023 with just 2 of us with me knowing, and with my last employee, pretty much having an understanding that, that we probably needed to part11:19 - 11:38Laurel Scherer: ways unless we could really make some sales that really fit her skill set and So we just continued the conversation and just as of last week she is now in a new position and I am happily down to a one-person team with some contract help.11:38 - 12:11Rochelle Moulton: Well, I feel like I should say congratulations. But what a ride though. This is the other part that when you don't have employees you don't necessarily appreciate is every time 1 person leaves or 1 person joins it changes the nature of the group. It can change it for the better, it can change it for the worse. It's kind of a crap shoot. And the other thing that's really interesting is it sounds like each of these people had what I would call an employee mindset. In other words, they were looking for another job. It's not like they12:11 - 12:24Rochelle Moulton: were going out and looking for some contract assignments. They wanted what I call a job job, a salary, a place to go. Actually, did you have a physical office space or was this all virtual?12:24 - 12:49Laurel Scherer: We did. We had a physical office space, 2 different ones over the course of the years, all the way up until about a year and a half ago. It's kind of during the pandemic, we decided to go all virtual. But and I will say that, you know, that's another expense too, you know, you're, you've got the, you've got this office space that you're dealing with. And it's just, you know, that's, that's always been a little bit of an added stressor in a way.12:49 - 13:22Rochelle Moulton: Oh, that's where I was going next is, you know, having that it's kind of like a noose around your neck because, you know, you usually have to sign a lease for some specified period of time. And the other thing you said earlier was that you wanted to bring in some assignments that suited 1 of your employees skill sets so as the owner you've got these responsibilities for the expense side that may not be changeable very much like the rent and then it's not that you just go out and look for work that with the kinds of13:22 - 13:46Rochelle Moulton: clients that you'd love or the kinds of projects you'd love or the areas of expertise you'd love but you have to keep your people busy Which means yes, and I'm not saying you did this, but sometimes people take on assignments that they really didn't want to in order to keep the lights on and keep their people busy or keep them engaged because employees are usually happier when they're busy versus when they don't have enough to do.13:47 - 14:10Laurel Scherer: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that there is a lot of freedom in not having to do that. And I'm at a point now where I'm really looking forward to being able to, like, I've learned how to say no to potential clients over the years that are not going to be a good fit. But now I have so much more freedom and flexibility in how often I can say no.14:11 - 14:31Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, you just hit on, I don't know if you've heard me say this, but my new definition of wealth is money, revenue, money, time, and flexibility. So what you just picked up is a form of wealth that you didn't have before, which is the flexibility to make decisions you might not have been able to make before.14:32 - 14:50Laurel Scherer: Right, and that's the irony is you go into business to have that flexibility, and then you grow an agency and realize that you really don't have nearly as much of it as you do if you're working more independently and collaboratively without the responsibility of the employees?14:50 - 15:18Rochelle Moulton: Oh yeah, I mean when I had my firm, I was looking at the, I had employees and contractors, and I was looking at them going, I want their life. They're having fun, they're going out, and we only had them do projects they were excited about. And we could do that because most of them were on contract. And they would have fun and we had a no fault, no policy. So if they didn't want to do a project, they could just say no and we still love them. But I was there, right? I was there all the15:18 - 15:49Rochelle Moulton: time fixing the technology when it broke, making sure we had sales, if we had conflicts come up, you know, that was all in my lap. So yeah, there is a whole piece to that. And I think at least in America, we think that when we start businesses, other people judge us by, oh, how many employees do you have? How big are you? And I think a lot of us just kind of buy into that. Well, of course, we're going to grow a firm. Why wouldn't we? And, you know, we, a lot of us like to have15:49 - 16:06Rochelle Moulton: colleagues. We like to have people to bounce ideas off of. But yeah, this is why I just I'm loving hearing this because it's allowing people who might be thinking about having employees to really think about whether this is a responsibility they're prepared to take on.16:07 - 16:48Laurel Scherer: Yeah, definitely. I always wanted to make sure that they had opportunities for professional development, and...

How can you scale as a soloist in the expertise space? You turn your expertise into assets that will work for you. Erin Austin—strategic lawyer and consultant—explains how to increase your revenue and impact by moving from fully customized services to leveraged income streams.We talk about:The eight business problems we create for ourselves when we only provide custom services.The “buckets” of intellectual property and how to think about them in your expertise business.How to decide which of your ideas make sense to protect and nurture.Why you want to develop a signature service that only you can provide—and how to get there from where you are now.LINKSErin Austin | Website | LinkedIn | Hourly to Exit PodcastRochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramGUEST BIOA graduate of Harvard Law School, Erin Austin is a strategic lawyer and consultant who uses her 25+ years of practicing law to help female founders of expertise-based firms meet their growth goals through the creation of scalable IP-based revenue streams. Her experience as a lawyer and as an executive—at the intersection of business and the law (including roles as COO and general counsel at IP-driven companies such as Warner Brothers, Lionsgate (formerly known as Artisan), MGM, Teaching Strategies, and M3 USA Corp)—informs the elevated legal and strategic business advice she provides to her clients. Through her Hourly to Exit podcast and her legal practice, Think Beyond IP, Erin guides women on the journey of transforming their businesses from an unscalable income-generator into a saleable wealth building asset. In her spare time, Erin likes to clear brush on her farmette, search for the perfect gluten-free baguette (all leads are appreciated!) and work on her backhand.BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLERESOURCES FOR SOLOISTSJoin the Soloist email list: helping thousands of Soloist Consultants smash through their revenue plateau.Soloist Events: in-person events for Soloists to gather and learn.The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 - 00:34Erin Austin: If you are someone who's just kind of selling your time, like as an extra pair of hands, you're a very good marketer, you're a very good copywriter, you're saying, I can write whatever you need me to write for you, but you don't have, you're not developing your own signature solutions, your own signature methodologies or frameworks, then you probably have some very weak positioning. People are gonna have you talk about this all the time, you know, the ability to be referable and for people to kind of understand, you know, exactly what you do and who you do00:34 - 00:44Erin Austin: it for. And so if you are using your expertise to create really strong packages, and that helps cement your positioning in the marketplace.00:49 - 01:30Rochelle Moulton: Hello, hello. Welcome to Soloist   Women, where we're all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I'm Rochelle Moulton. And today I'm here with Erin Austin, who, in my opinion, is the maven for female founders of expertise firms who want to build scalable IP-based revenue streams. Erin, welcome. Thank you so much for having me, Rochelle. I'm excited. So 1 of the many reasons that I'm so excited to have you on the show is you have this 100% clear-eyed view on what it takes to scale an expertise business using your intellectual property. And plus, kind of01:30 - 01:45Rochelle Moulton: like as a bonus, I'd really love for our listeners to hear how you've gotten to this place because in my head, you're the poster child for carving out the life you want in the place you want to be. So I want to dig into that a little bit too.01:45 - 02:26Erin Austin: It too. Well, thank you. Well, I do kind of describe myself as my own avatar as a female founder of an expertise based business who has taken that journey from having, you know, unscalable hourly based business to creating 1 that is expertise based, creating intellectual property, creating a new revenue streams that decouple my income from my time. That is why I'm here and to help other women do that. And So just a teeny bit of my back story is I've been working with intellectual property based corporations, large corporations, my entire career. And then I got to02:26 - 03:00Erin Austin: a point where I wanted to not just help big companies get bigger, but to help women, especially women who have expertise-based businesses, maybe they are lifestyle businesses, but they have a mission and a purpose. They want to do more for their families, for their communities, to help them increase not just their income, but hopefully to build wealth with their businesses as well. You know, I like to say that wealth in the hands of women can change the world. And so helping men, yeah, you know, helping women build wealth because, you know, at the end of the03:00 - 03:12Erin Austin: day, wealth, you know, has influence in this world. And so if we want to spread more of that wealth around, we need to help more people get access to the tools of wealth, which is ownership of assets.03:13 - 03:24Rochelle Moulton: Well, Erin, In all the time I've known you, I don't think I've ever asked you this question. What actually made you decide to start your own business? Because I mean, you worked for some very top names in America.03:25 - 03:57Erin Austin: Yeah, well, it really was moving to middle of nowhere, frankly, and having a kid. So I was at the front end of being able to work remotely. When I first moved to, I live in the exurbs of Washington DC, which at the time I had dial up and I was able to work with my former clients doing work with them. At the time, I was still doing a lot of film work, and I had, 1 of my old clients had a film library that they wanted me to look at, and it was easier for them to03:57 - 04:17Erin Austin: download the documents, put them on a CD, and mail them to me than for me to try to do that remotely. Over time, I've been able to work from home while raising my kid out here. And so fortunately, I've been able to have the best of both worlds of working with my large clients and working remotely, working for myself as well.04:17 - 04:40Rochelle Moulton: I guess the other thing that I know from other conversations we've had is that you have Really for a long time walk this intersection between law and business, right? You trained as a lawyer, but you've been in business almost forever So can you talk us through what it was like entering the consulting space and then finding your niche with helping women experts scale?04:41 - 05:15Erin Austin: Yeah, it took me a little bit. I mean, you know, I get I've been practicing law for 30 years, working with large corporations, and having to kind of do the type of business development that's required to work with, you know, a larger audience and 1 that's different from the 1 that I've worked with traditionally has been some work for me to learn how to make sure I'm showing up in the places where my audience is, learning how to stop with the legal speak, you know, the large corporations that I work with. I mean, they all totally05:15 - 05:55Erin Austin: get it. They have legal departments. They, you know, their assets are intellectual property. They love lawyers, frankly, versus a different population, which might be afraid of lawyers might think that they're inaccessible or not understandable. And So being accessible and understandable and having materials that are implementable has been a real process for me and 1 that I really enjoy. Like I found that people tell me I'm pretty good at translating the legalese into things that make sense and that are applicable. I love a good analogy. I love a good graphic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so to me, that's05:55 - 05:59Erin Austin: part of the joy is being an educator along with being a lawyer.06:00 - 06:18Rochelle Moulton: Awesome. Awesome. So 1 of the questions I've been asking guests is about revenue. So how long did it take you to hit your first like 100, 000 after you went out on your own? Like was it really fast because of your legal background or did it take a while? Yeah, it did.06:18 - 06:35Erin Austin: I mean, because I just kind of flipped from being in house to being an outside resource. And so it did not. I mean, that was my first year, frankly, of, you know, doing retainer work, or doing flat fee work. And that is just, you know, a function of yeah, where I was coming from.06:36 - 06:44Rochelle Moulton: And did you plateau or did you find that, you know, since then, or do you find that you have kind of a steady climb over time? Just curious.06:44 - 07:19Erin Austin: Yeah, there were some plateau mostly because, you know, I had whale clients for a very long time and I'll say I still have 1. And so you and there's a comfort with having those whale clients and so long as they stick around right. But it makes you a little bit lazy and I was very comfortable and so I definitely plateaued And so it was on me to kind of find that fire, just do business development as I'm working with this new audience. When you have when you still have those clients. But yeah, yeah.07:20 - 07:26Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. Well, you know, you can make a wonderful business with whale clients, right? As long as you don't just have 1,07:26 - 07:26Erin Austin: you07:26 - 07:59Rochelle Moulton: know, you've got 3 or maybe 4 or 5, I think any more than that's probably not a whale. But so let's get down to scaling our expertise businesses, a subject I know you and I both love to talk about. And I really want to talk about how we can scale even if we want to stay solo. And I was looking at your website before we talked, and I just want to read what you said on there. If the only way you make money is you providing custom services, your score is 0 out of 8 in the07:59 - 08:12Rochelle Moulton: scalability game. And then you go through basically 8 different points in the game. So can you walk us through the business problems that we create for ourselves when we focus only on custom services?08:12 - 08:53Erin Austin: Yeah absolutely and These are all indications that we aren't taking advantage of our expertise and turning it into either assets that we can use internally to become more efficient or perhaps even assets that we can sell externally. So the issues that are the symptoms that you have a problem if you're not effectively using utilizing your expertise as an asset are 1, you know, you have a client concentration problem. I mean, there are only so many clients that you can serve at 1 time. You know, whether or not you want to increase your revenue through the addition08:53 - 09:32Erin Austin: of employees, and let's just say we were soloist women, and we're all, we all wanna stay soloist, but there are ways that we can use our expertise to create efficiencies in our business so that 1, maybe you have that will client problem. And so you can handle more clients when you build efficiencies into your business through standards and procedures, through templates, through models, so that helps you be more efficient. Other ways that helps you perhaps create other offerings that you can provide at different price points. So maybe you're only doing very custom services, maybe you add09:32 - 10:10Erin Austin: some productized services to the mix too because you have developed a specialty, you know, so that kind of signature solution that you have productized that you can deliver more efficiently at a different price point and so that would also appeal to a different client as well. Other ways you might have problems is you know when you have client concentration problem you usually have a revenue concentration problem. So you just have that 1 type of revenue in this case we're talking about one-on-one services And so when you are packaging your intellectual property, packaging your expertise into intellectual10:10 - 10:37Erin Austin: property assets, then you can create new revenue streams off of that. Not just one-on-one services, but also some leverage services that decouple your income from your time, such as maybe workshops or digital products. Another problem will be the earner concentration, and that's just you. It's only you out there. If you're not delivering services, there's no money coming in.10:37 - 10:39Rochelle Moulton: No passive revenue.10:39 - 11:14Erin Austin: Yeah. And you know, 1 of the ways to create, you know, more earners in your business is either through, you know, effective use of employees, if that's 1 way you wanna go, but also using contractors as well. There are people who do workshops and some of them are doing them on their own. They're traveling, you know, if they're doing them in person, They're traveling around the country to deliver those workshops. If you are able to systematize your workshops and document them, then you're able to engage facilitators on a subcontractor basis so that there's somebody else delivering11:14 - 11:48Erin Austin: your work. But you're getting paid for it without you going on the road or out that without that taking your time personally Mm-hmm, then the revenue ceiling problem, you know, I like to say unless you're Tony Robbins You know, there's only so much you can charge for a private coaching session, right? And so, you know, even making a very good hourly rate, there's still a ceiling on your hourly rate. And so if you haven't figured out a way to, again, to decouple your income from your time, then you will hit that revenue ceiling. I like to11:48 - 12:23Erin Austin: talk about the licensing process of having your expertise packaged in a way that someone else can deliver it, whether it is through a facilitator like we mentioned earlier, or perhaps it's something that a client can license directly for you. If we go back to that workshop model and you have been the facilitator for your clients, they may have someone in-house that can be the facilitator. And so you license your workshop to them and then you are getting paid a license fee for them to deliver it internally using their own resources.12:25 - 12:25Rochelle Moulton: Train the trainer.12:26 - 12:59Erin Austin: Yeah, train the trainer model. Other symptom is that inconsistent cash flow. You have that feast or famine cycle when you're doing you know high ticket, high touch custom services. Those can have very long sale cycles. So you're you know you're working, working, working to get the sale and and then you get it. Then you have all the work. Then you're completely overwhelmed by the work so you're not doing anything else until the engagement's over, then you look up, okay, now I got to go do it all again. And I guess it's like kind of a, what12:59 - 13:34Erin Austin: is it, the hunting, like big game hunting, right? Where you go, you feast, and then once you're out of meat you gotta bring it back out there and bring down another beast but when we you know set up multiple revenue streams we have 1 that is not necessarily passive but 1 that's perhaps recurring such as you know maybe you have resources that you can sell subscriptions to, or maybe you have a community that you can sell subscriptions to, or other types of assets that can be offered on a recurring basis so that you can even out13:34 - 14:10Erin Austin: your cash flow. Another symptom would be your weak positioning. Like if you are someone who's just kind of selling your time like as an extra pair of hands, you're a very good marketer, you're a very good copywriter, and you're saying, I can write whatever you need me to write for you. But you don't have you're not developing your own signature solutions, your own signature methodologies or frameworks. Then you probably have some very weak positioning. People are going to have you talk about this all the time, you know, the ability to be referable and for people to14:10 - 14:25Erin Austin: kind of understand, you know, exactly what you do and who you do it for. And so if you are using your expertise to create really strong packages and that helps cement your positioning in the marketplace.14:26 - 14:28Rochelle Moulton: And makes you worth more in the eyes of the market.14:29 - 14:34Erin Austin: Absolutely. Speaking of which, you know, stagnant profitability would be 1.14:34 - 14:35Rochelle Moulton: 0, there's that.14:36 - 15:14Erin Austin: Yeah, absolutely. Well, 1, you know, it depresses what you can charge, right? But also, if you're starting from scratch with every engagement, then how do you get the benefit of efficiencies? How do you get the benefits of systemizing your services? How do you get the benefit of having templates and models that you're starting from? When you aren't billing by the hour, you know, the more efficient you get, the more profitable that same service becomes. And so that means not just having your expertise in your head, but actually creating systems from it. And that can also become15:14 - 15:49Erin Austin: more profitable when you lower the cost of the resources, you know, you are the most expensive resource in your business. You know, can you use less expensive resources such as contractors or even technology, maybe even, if you understand like where the elements are that you might be able to plug less expensive resources in. And then the last 1 is the impact ceiling. I mean, we all got into this business because...

Mindi Zissman started her specialized B2B content firm so she could work from home and replace her then $35K salary. Today, she’s gunning for the $1 million mark and no one in their right mind would bet against her.We talk about:What it takes to leave a comfortable job to start your first business.Revenue progression: hitting your first $100K and busting through your significant income plateaus.How to leverage through hiring/contracting “mini me’s” to do client work (and why systems will become your saving grace).The magic of committing to exactly the right niche (and why it might take a hot minute to get there).LINKSMindi Zissman | Website | LinkedIn Rochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramGUEST BIOMindi Zissman is the President of Zissman Media, a B2B content firm specializing in the risk, insurance and compliance industries. Mindi started Zissman Media in 2004 to be the voice of her clients, expressing their industry expertise through thought leadership. Mindi is passionate about doing project research and connecting one-on-one with her clients.BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLERESOURCES FOR SOLOISTSJoin the Soloist email list: helping thousands of Soloist Consultants smash through their revenue plateau.Soloist Events: in-person events for Soloists to gather and learn.The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 - 00:25Mindi Zissman: There was definitely a point in my business where I would freak out when new projects would have come in instead of being so happy because I just didn't have the capacity. I didn't know how I would do it. I didn't know who would do it. I didn't want it to not be perfect or great. I didn't want it to not be like my A work because I was charging people a lot of money and I did have a reputation to uphold. And so that's definitely a big piece that I now have kind of that frame of00:25 - 00:29Mindi Zissman: mind where I can say, okay, I can hand this off to somebody.00:34 - 00:55Rochelle Moulton: Hello, hello. Welcome to So Louis Women, where we're all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I'm Rochelle Moulton, and today I'm here with Mindy Zisman. She is president of Zisman Media, which is a B2B content firm specializing in the risk, insurance and compliance industries. Welcome Mindy.00:55 - 00:59Mindi Zissman: Hi, Rochelle. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.00:59 - 01:21Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. So 1 of the reasons I was so excited to have you on the show is that literally every single time we talk I feel like you figured out another way to grow your business and still lead the life that you want It's like you have this real zest for your work for your clients and your allies in your craft So I can't wait to just dive01:21 - 01:24Mindi Zissman: in. Okay, let's do it. I'm excited.01:24 - 01:40Rochelle Moulton: Okay, so just so we're clear, you're not currently operating as what we might call a peer soloist. You do have a couple of employees, But 1 of the many reasons I wanted you to share your story is that your model could just as easily work for someone who doesn't want to deal with employees and hires contractors instead.01:41 - 01:50Mindi Zissman: Correct and I also do actually hire contractors. I do happen to have like 1 or 2 people working in the business as well, but mostly I hire contractors. So that is true also.01:50 - 01:57Rochelle Moulton: Okay. So let's start with how you found your way into starting your own business. I mean, where did it all begin for you?01:58 - 02:30Mindi Zissman: I was a trade magazine editor working at a trade magazine company. We had 150 titles, you know, everything from hotels magazine to hairstyles magazine. I mean, really everything. And I worked at 2 magazines that were for architects and engineers. None of us were architects or engineers. We were all writers who kind of learned the industry and that was really my first job out of college. And I did that for a while and I had a couple kids and I was you know I had 2 little kids at the time and I remember we hired a freelance02:30 - 02:57Mindi Zissman: writer or 2 and I would edit their stuff laid out on the page etc and at 1 point I like almost turned myself and said why are you not doing that and this was 2004 there was no gig economy I didn't know anybody that worked for themselves certainly no women and maybe some men who had their own businesses. I didn't know any women who worked from home for themselves. Nobody worked from home again. This is like, you know, I'm really dating myself here. But I really just decided to go off on my own. I took a02:57 - 03:24Mindi Zissman: crazy plunge. My husband's an accountant and I remember him turning to me and said, you can't just do that. And I was like, oh, really? Yeah, let's try that. Let's see how that works. You know, he was very worried about that salary, that little salary. I think my first job at, I was an assistant editor at a trade magazine, I think I was making $35, 000. And he was so worried, you know, I had to bring that $35, 000. And we had 2 little kids. And I was like, all right, let's try it. I don't know03:24 - 03:52Mindi Zissman: if I would have as much gumption today as I did then, but I did. And I went off on my own and I took 1 business owner who was on our editorial board at the magazines. He was an engineering MEP engineering firm downtown. He owned this firm and he was my first client. He said sure I'll hire you to do some writing for our firm. And again this was like before anybody was looking for a freelance writer. So people would say to me, so what do you do? And I would just say, well, I'm a technical03:52 - 04:13Mindi Zissman: writer. And everyone just assumed that meant I wrote the book that came with their earn. Right. And I was like, no, I didn't. You know, we write articles, we go we ghost write for people, you know experts in the engineering and architecture space and those articles go into magazines, they might go on the company's website and again this is 2004 so it was like the beginning of even companies having websites.04:14 - 04:14Rochelle Moulton: Yeah.04:14 - 04:39Mindi Zissman: So it was that but anyway that was me going off on my own. And what did I do? There was no social media then. How do I let people know that I was going off on my own? I actually, this is so funny, I created, I guess it was in Word, but I made it look like a newspaper and it was a 1 page. I had it printed at Kinkos in Glossy, you know, page. I made it look like a whole newspaper and it was like, Zisman goes off on her own. I wrote a whole article04:39 - 05:11Mindi Zissman: and I sent it to all my contacts in the architecture and engineering world in like a manila envelope. And I got a few calls and it was just word of mouth for many years. And people would recommend me clients. I worked really in the architecture and engineering space then. So clients of mine at certain engineering firms would leave and they'd go to another engineering firm and they'd bring me with them. So that was really how the business grew. And my original editor at the time at that engineering magazine, he went off and started an architecture magazine.05:11 - 05:37Mindi Zissman: So he brought me with as 1 of his contributing editors. So I had a bunch of gigs and it just kind of grew over time, but I really was home with my kids and doing what I wanted to do and still making money and being connected to something I loved, which was writing and, you know, telling stories. And at the time I loved that architecture and engineering space too. And I did that for a bunch of years and again, it was just word of mouth. And then about 9 or 10 years ago, a client of mine05:37 - 06:08Mindi Zissman: who was in healthcare at the time I was doing some healthcare stuff actually right around the time of the Affordable Care Act, I was working for a nursing home education company basically. They did continuing ed for nursing home nurses and administrators, just all their staff. Anyway, I had the Affordable Care Act downloaded on my desktop and I wrote 7 white papers on the Affordable Care Act. I think I was like the only 1 that read the majority of it. Wow. This client of mine, she moved over to commercial insurance and she brought me with as a06:08 - 06:41Mindi Zissman: ghostwriter. I was their first writer. And I thought, okay, I know insurance. I have that insurance card in my wallet. We go to the doctor, I got this. And I very quickly realized, and so did she, that commercial insurance is Totally different than health care and having a card from you know, Blue Cross Blue Shield So commercial insurance is the umbrella over businesses So it's the same thing whether that's cyber insurance transportation transfer trucking companies, you know property insurance if you have an office General liability if someone slips trips and falls on your rug in your06:41 - 07:11Mindi Zissman: lobby, that's everything. That's what commercial insurance is. And about 3 years ago, right around the time of the pandemic, I decided I loved commercial insurance and risk so much that I wanted to niche down on it. And I will actually say that Rochelle, you and Jonathan from the Business of Authority really had such a hand in that. I was listening to your podcast, you know, just regularly, I still do. And you guys kept talking about niching down and I'd go to listen to another podcast for business owners and they were talking about niching down and everybody07:11 - 07:40Mindi Zissman: was talking about niching down. And I was kind of falling out of love with my engineering and architecture clients because they didn't like to spend money. Really marketing wasn't such a big deal for them. It was kind of, you know, back end. Okay, we'll do that later. And I loved risk and insurance. And so I just said, you know what, I'm going to double down on it. And I really took a risk, really a big risk for myself, as a business owner. And I, I remember hearing so much, let's say for sure on the business of07:40 - 08:09Mindi Zissman: authority, but you know, on other podcasts and just other experts as well, saying things like you feel, And I know Jonathan says this all the time, you know, you think when you're going to niche down that you are closing in on a smaller pool of potential clients, but really what you're doing is you're actually giving everybody an opportunity to only use you if you're in that market. And that's really what happened. And so I did that and right around the time of COVID, my youngest went to school full time and I'd always had a thousand ideas08:09 - 08:19Mindi Zissman: to grow my business. And so I decided I'm gonna work full time and niche down the business and it just totally exploded. And I think that's, I think mission down was a big piece of that.08:19 - 08:36Rochelle Moulton: Well, it's funny because you absolutely captured that. You always have a thousand ideas on how to do it, but you focus yourself pretty quickly. So I just have to ask a couple of questions about the journey, because I'm picturing somebody sitting there wondering, how long did it take you to make back your 35, 000 and tell your husband see08:36 - 08:39Mindi Zissman: oh that first year I made that money yeah yeah08:40 - 08:46Rochelle Moulton: and do you remember when you made your first hundred thousand when you broke that that barrier08:46 - 09:18Mindi Zissman: yeah I do remember I can't remember what year it was, but I do remember that because I remember being like, oh my gosh, I really could do this. And I now I see even today I'll see on you know, copywriting emails that I get from like just different groups and people say like, oh, who broke that hundred thousand dollar barrier? And I'm grateful, listen, my business and pushing towards that million mark. That's, that's where my next I is. And I hope I'm headed there in the next year. That's my plan. But I remember being like that09:18 - 09:35Mindi Zissman: was, and I'll tell you something, there was also even a threshold. And this really speaks to that whole idea of hiring freelancers or getting more people under you in your business. There was a threshold that I was at, I want to say it was about 120, 130, where I just couldn't get over it if I didn't hire somebody.09:35 - 09:36Rochelle Moulton: Yeah.09:36 - 10:08Mindi Zissman: And I was there for a long time, because I really was very nervous to hire people. I thought people were hiring me for my expertise. How can I grow that? How do you grow your own expertise, how do you clone yourself, how do you... I had so many thoughts and so many things that held me back. And I wasn't able to scale over that 130 for a really long time. And only when I opened myself up to using other writers, getting a VA, getting an editor. Each 1 of those was a process, just because this whole10:08 - 10:17Mindi Zissman: business has been me forever. And so that was really hard. It's still very hard. It's still very hard to delegate, but I've gotten better at it over time. And I see that it's the only way to grow.10:17 - 10:49Rochelle Moulton: I kind of put that in the category of leverage, right? Cause a lot of people in this kind of expertise space, we get stuck around the hundred to $150, 000 mark. And you know, you can typically leverage broadly like in 2 ways, right? 1 is to go and clone yourself or hire people. So you leverage through people. Actually, I should make it 3 ways. Another is that you can leverage through pricing. You could say, okay, this thing that used to cost 20, 000, now it's 40. So you can play with those prices, or you create something10:49 - 11:06Rochelle Moulton: where you sell something to many people and you leverage that way like a membership program, for example. But that's a completely different business model that was not the, you know, let me do this high end really thought leadership pieces for this specific vertical.11:07 - 11:34Mindi Zissman: Correct. And the other thing that I'll say, I've never been much of a subscription model. I mean, I definitely have retainer clients, but I feel like that's different than subscription. I'm not really selling like my thought leadership. And then also, I've never been able to like wrap my head around creating a product. I never wanted to create a course. I never wanted to like teach people what I'm doing. But I will say that I am doing something new now, which is a little bit in that realm. And I really had never thought of this, but I11:34 - 12:09Mindi Zissman: had a client, 1 of my large commercial insurance brokerage clients, who hired me in June to come and speak at their Women in Sales Summit. And I created a two-hour workshop on leveraging LinkedIn for like insurance sales. And that was just based on my LinkedIn knowledge, not necessarily what our business does. You know, we go straight for these companies. So they're a client of mine, but I was speaking to their sales team and I love LinkedIn. It's something I've really enjoyed over the last few years. You know, so it's something that I have a mass knowledge12:09 - 12:38Mindi Zissman: on. And again, it's not something I sell. Like I don't sell LinkedIn posts. You know, we don't do social media for our clients. I mean, I will do, I have a few clients that we write some of their posts, but that's not, that's not like our bread and butter at all. And it's only after we're working with clients on other pieces. But so I created this whole masterclass for insurance producers. That's what salespeople call themselves. It's kind of like an internal term Anyway, now I'm going to leverage it and do it here in Chicago for the12:38 - 13:06Mindi Zissman: first time early September I'm doing a full morning of LinkedIn for insurance producers and I'm gonna see how it goes. Yeah, so I had created it and so I found a way to add more to it you know once I had done it I met with a few just like you always say to do some of that market research so I met with a few of the people who were at that Women in Sales Summit And now I have it's not a productized business model because I still have to be there and I'm still doing it13:06 - 13:32Mindi Zissman: and it's still live. But I hope to be able to give it to like between 20 and 50 people every time I do it. And that's a huge morning for me. You know, that's a huge, a huge financial and I really love it. I have to tell you, I love teaching it. I love being in front of people and answering their questions and figuring it out on the spot and just talking about the knowledge that I've gained from that platform. So I'm really excited about doing that. And it's really kind of an adjunct to the business.13:32 - 13:46Mindi Zissman: Like these, the people who would come to it, these insurance producers, the insurance salespeople, their companies could hire me but they independently wouldn't, you know, wouldn't be hiring us to write, you know, blogs or annual reports or anything like that for their companies. So.13:46 - 14:02Rochelle Moulton: You know what's so fascinating is you said earlier, yeah, I don't want to teach people what I do, but I can hear the passion for teaching this. Right? Yeah. It's like the moral of the story is maybe you just have to find the right thing to morph into being a teacher.14:03 - 14:29Mindi Zissman: Yeah, exactly. And I actually teach at the high school level, which I think you know also, that's more of like a, I actually have an under...

Before I start introducing you to some amazing guests in the soloist space, it makes sense to start with an important question: what exactly is a soloist anyway? And why would you want to be one?I talk about:Finding delight the soloist way, despite having built—and sold to the big boys—a successful firm with employees.Why a soloist business allows you to earn more money, more reliably with none of the employee hassles that can eat up your energy and keep you awake at night.The importance of niching, discovering the revolution you were meant to lead and going deeper into your genius zone.The mindset of successful soloists (hint: think simplicity and ease) as we build an upward spiral of ideas, products and services.LINKSRochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramRESOURCES FOR SOLOISTSThe Soloist Women Mastermind (September 2023) A structured eight-month mastermind with a small group of no more than 12 hand-picked women soloists grappling with—and solving—the same challenges.10 Ways To Grow Revenue As A Soloist (Without Working More Hours): most of us have been conditioned to work more when we want to grow revenue—but what if we just worked differently?The Soloist Women community: a place to connect with like-minded women (and join a channel dedicated to your revenue level).The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 - 00:44Rochelle Moulton: Your mindset is a bit like a muscle. You need to regularly exercise its limits so you can keep building an upward spiral, an upward spiral of ideas of products and services of ways to create the impact you crave with your people. Hello, hello, and welcome to the Soloist Women podcast where we're all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I'm Rochelle Moulton. And since we're launching this brand spanking new podcast on soloist women today, I thought we should start with an important question. What exactly is a soloist and why would you want to be 1?00:45 - 01:24Rochelle Moulton: For those of you who don't know my story, I spent 10 years of my early career in a big global consulting firm, learning the craft of consulting, building practices and businesses. And I loved it until I didn't. And basically the partnership I worked so hard for and wanted a really young age just wasn't enough to compensate for how I felt about the work I was doing and the difference I was making. So I started my first expertise business And we built it around this idea of staffing it with MBA women, usually mothers, from the big firms01:24 - 01:59Rochelle Moulton: who'd had enough of working 60 plus hour weeks, living on airplanes, and still being made to feel they weren't contributing enough to make partner. The beauty of the idea was that we had our pick of highly qualified potential consultants who were desperate for a better way to run their career and their life. And the Fortune 500 firms that were our bread and butter loved our flexible model and they sent business our way, even solo sourcing us a lot of the time. So my point is that I've built businesses with employees, quite a few of them actually.01:59 - 02:39Rochelle Moulton: And if that's what's calling to you, by all means go out and build 1. It's an experience I wouldn't trade for anything. But if today you asked me to do the same thing I'd say no freaking way because I found true delight in the soloist way. No employees to feel responsible for and worry about. No big overhead that might make me say yes to work or clients I don't want. And a hundred percent complete freedom to do whatever I decide floats my boat. I earn more money more reliably with none of the hassles that used to02:39 - 03:16Rochelle Moulton: eat up my energy and keep me awake at night. It's a level of freedom and joy that now that I've tasted it I just couldn't give up And if you're at all inclined to this soloist life, I'm here to help you master it. Okay, so what's a soloist exactly? Well, here's how I think about it. You're the 1 who is center stage. You might have a backup band, contractors who help you create or deliver services, or you might be totally alone in the spotlight working your magic for the crowd. But here's the thing, Just because you're03:16 - 03:57Rochelle Moulton: a soloist doesn't mean you're alone. You have support inside your business, like a lawyer, maybe a bookkeeper, a CPA, a web team, a VA, a coach, and you have allies outside. You have an authority circle of kindred spirits who speak or write or consult in your space and are building engaged audiences who can benefit from your message. What you don't have is employees, which makes it far, far easier to design your work and your life to maximize the time you spend in your genius zone doing only those things you love that you do better than anyone03:57 - 04:34Rochelle Moulton: else. Now think about that for a moment. You get to work not on your weaknesses or even to polish up the things you're excellent at, you are focused on eliminating all of that and zeroing in on what you do best that happens to make time fly by because you're so in flow when you're doing it. A soloist is constantly searching for and testing the boundaries of their genius zone, which is 1 big reason why we niche, right? We burrow into a finely tuned set of clients, an area of expertise that allows us to multiply our value04:34 - 05:18Rochelle Moulton: because we understand our niche so well. We constantly magnify ourselves to attract our ideal clients and buyers. Almost No 1 starts our kind of businesses knowing exactly who they're going to serve. It's definitely a process. But once we've proven our business model usually around the hundred thousand dollar per year mark, we start to get pretty relentless about working only with people who inspire and energize us. Because we've gotten a taste of nirvana and just a taste isn't enough, we want the whole 5 course meal. A soloist has the freedom to explore new ideas, to play with05:18 - 05:57Rochelle Moulton: a concept, to drop into potential rabbit holes and talk about them to see if maybe there's something there. That something might just be a momentary thing that you wind up discarding, or it might wind up being a significant chunk of your body of work. The point is there is no 1 to tell you not to pursue your ideas. You get to choose. Which brings me to the soloist mindset. The most successful soloists punch through their fear on a pretty regular basis and by the way anyone who tells you they have no fear is a liar well05:57 - 06:42Rochelle Moulton: or associate bath. Your mindset is a bit like a muscle. You need to regularly exercise its limits so you can keep building an upward spiral. An upward spiral of ideas, of products and services, of ways to create the impact you crave with your people. And a soloist, think of the rock star Prima Ballerina gets paid more than anyone. And I will argue probably to my dying breath that soloists not only can but must charge premium prices because we are delivering focused high-value transformations to our clients and buyers and we believe deeply in being paid what we're06:42 - 07:24Rochelle Moulton: worth and because we're building not just for today but for rainy days and gloriously sunny days when we want to go out and play instead of working. Soloists charge based on the value we deliver and we're not shy about it. Which brings me to something else that's really important, especially once you've proven your business is viable and sustainable. What's the revolution you most want to lead? Because that's where you and your business can make a serious dent in the universe. You can change lives and have an impact far beyond just yourself. So Lewis also embrace simplicity07:25 - 08:05Rochelle Moulton: and ease because we choose to focus on only what moves the needle. We want systems that work, that are low maintenance, and allow us to spend the maximum amount of time in our genius zone. And frankly, this is true no matter your gender. Solists don't buy into the bro hustle model. We don't blindly try to grow just for gross sake. We're always looking to optimize revenue, free time, flexibility, and impact for our vision of the lives we most want to lead. We create our own vision and we dance to our own music. So I realized that08:05 - 08:50Rochelle Moulton: I've just thrown a whole lot at you. So let me summarize how I see soloists. A soloist is the only 1 on center stage. A soloist has no employees. A soloist is relentlessly focused on discovering their genius zone and moving all of their time to it. A soloist works only with clients and buyers who energize and inspire them. A soloist niches down into a finely tuned set of clients, an area of expertise that they can own. A soloist punches through their fear on a regular basis because they're looking for that upward spiral of ideas, of products08:50 - 09:36Rochelle Moulton: and services, of ways to create the impact they crave with their people. A soloist charges premium prices without apology. A soloist chooses a revolution to lead and goes all in. A soloist embraces simplicity and ease. And a soloist rejects the bro hustle model. So I wanted to set the table for this podcast by sharing my vision of what a truly amazing soloist business can deliver to you, to those you love, and to those you wish to serve. It's with that vision in mind that I've chosen the upcoming guests. In the next episodes you'll hear some I09:36 - 10:05Rochelle Moulton: think very inspiring stories from soloists who've crossed the dip in their business. It wasn't always pretty but they're going to share some hard-won tales from the front and we'll show you what is possible as they work on their upward spiral living and working in their genius zone. And you'll meet some revolution leaders whose ideas and wisdom are exactly what we need to hear right now. So that's it for this episode. I hope you'll join us next time for Soloist Women. Bye-bye.

Geraldine Carter started her business because she didn’t want to be an employee again. EVER. But when she discovered how much she loved coaching CPAs, she set a clear and compelling mission: helping overworked CPAs create the accounting firm and the life they have always wanted.Geraldine joins me for a no-holds-barred conversation about business, money and impact: What to do when you have to make your business work because you never want to be an employee again.How to find your people and zero in on your mission to serve them.Why it’s easier to make your second $100,000 than your first.What happens when your revenue crosses over to your personal definition of “enough”.The costs and pleasures of committing to ruthlessly staying solo.LINKSGeraldine Carter | Website | Podcast | LinkedIn Rochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramGUEST BIOGeraldine Carter is a business coach for overworked solo CPAs and firm owners who want to go down to 40 hours without giving up revenue. Her clients routinely shave hundreds of hours off their to-do lists and get back above water, so they can reshape their practice into one in which they thrive. Her podcast, Business Strategy for CPAs has more than 100,000 downloads and is ranked in the top ten podcast for CPAs, by Apple Podcasts. Geraldine holds a BS in Engineering from Cornell University, is the co-founder and CFO of a company where her cashflow forecasting models resulted in millions of dollars for climate change efforts. In her free time, she can be found mountain biking forested trails or running after her two small children in her hometown of Ketchum, ID.BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLERESOURCES FOR SOLOISTSJoin the Soloist email list: helping thousands of Soloist Consultants smash through their revenue plateau.Soloist Events: in-person events for Soloists to gather and learn.The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 – 00:28Geraldine Carter: I’ve just stopped looking at the money, which is so not normal for me. Counterintuitive. At the risk of sounding however this sounds, I’ve almost lost track because it’s not the main thing that I think about in my business. The main thing that I think about is how do I delight clients? What is the delight that they want? And how do I delight them as fast as possible? Best possible results, least amount of time, best experience. Hello, hello.00:32 – 00:56Rochelle Moulton: Welcome to Soloist  Women, where we’re all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I’m Rochelle Moulton, and today I’m here with my pal Geraldine Carter, force of nature And business coach for overwork solo CPAs and firm owners who want to go down to 40 hours a week without sacrificing revenue. Geraldine, welcome.00:57 – 00:59Geraldine Carter: Hi, Rachelle. I’m so happy to be here.01:00 – 01:22Rochelle Moulton: Well, 1 of the many reasons that I am so thrilled to have you on the show is the way that you’ve established and grown your soloist business. I mean, I find it both aspirational and inspirational. And plus, we’re going to talk about 2 of our favorite topics, right? How to keep making more money without working more hours and staying solo.01:23 – 01:24Geraldine Carter: Ooh, I love it.01:24 – 01:34Rochelle Moulton: Okay. Great. Well, let’s bring everybody kind of up to speed. Let’s start with what made you decide to start your own business. Like was there a catalyst that sent you in this direction?01:35 – 02:30Geraldine Carter: I don’t want to say that I needed something to do, but I needed something to do. And I needed to put Cheerios in the bowl. And I had started a previous business with a friend that we had built and it was successful and I knew I wanted to go in a different direction and I knew that I was gonna start family and I was like okay now what do we do now what do I do what does this look like so when I started I actually wasn’t sure what I wanted to do, but I knew that02:30 – 02:54Geraldine Carter: I didn’t want to grow a giant company, or at least I thought I knew I didn’t want to grow a giant company. But I was like, all right, do I be a CFP? Cause I like money and I like managing money and investments and all that stuff. And I think my women especially need a lot of help with that kind of thing. But I went down that rabbit hole and I was like, oh, 2000 hour qualification, no thanks. And then I was like, You know, everybody says I make, I love making ice cream, sort of a02:54 – 03:07Geraldine Carter: terrible. It’s a, I love making ice cream and I make delicious ice cream. If we’re doing raw Geraldine, The name of my ice cream and I have labels for it is creamy cheese inappropriately delicious.03:08 – 03:11Rochelle Moulton: I can so see that. Oh my goodness.03:11 – 03:17Geraldine Carter: It turned out the minute that I wanted to turn that into a business and somebody said health department I was like I’m out.03:17 – 03:18Rochelle Moulton: Yeah food is tough.03:19 – 03:46Geraldine Carter: Yep and then at this point I forget what the other ones were, but at the end that left coaching. And I was like, well, this is the last 1 on the list, and it’s time to get some Cheerios in the bowl. So I signed up for a coaching certification program. And the minute I signed up the first class I was like, this is where I meant to be. I love this. And that was about 8 years ago. I was pregnant with my first kid. And that’s how I got into it. And I’ve just been finding my03:46 – 03:48Geraldine Carter: way exploring ever since.03:49 – 04:08Rochelle Moulton: Well, I know from some of our other conversations that it was kind of a twisty road that got you from there to here. So maybe can you talk us through what it was like entering the coaching space and especially finding your niche because you’re not a CPA and yet you serve CPAs. I’m just curious how you got there.04:08 – 04:42Geraldine Carter: Yeah. So Twisted Road is exactly it. And I, you know, like many business owners who hang their own shingle thought that I could just sell coaching. And doesn’t everybody want mindfulness coaching? Doesn’t everybody want to think better thoughts? Well, maybe, but it turns out it’s really hard to sell that by the session. So I had to do my own exploring to figure out what it is that I was offering and how I could benefit people or how that skill set could benefit people in a way that made sense for business. And simultaneously, I was having conversations04:42 – 05:19Geraldine Carter: with colleagues and we would always shocker, wander into the money because that’s where I was so at home. And we’d start talking about the money and I’d be asking them questions about whatever and it was on their balance sheet and they’re like, I have no idea. And they didn’t know, they knew very little about the, they knew very little about the state of their money. So I just sort of followed my nose and I started helping business owners understand their financials. And I would ask, where’s your accountant? Where’s your CPA? How come they’re not explaining this05:19 – 05:42Geraldine Carter: to you? And they would say, oh, they don’t have time for me or they talk over me or they talk down to me. And I was like, huh, that’s not like what’s going on there. And then simultaneously, I had a couple of CPAs reach out and they were like, hey, you know, I’ve heard about the work that you’re doing and I think I’m wondering if you might be able to help us. And that was a real head scratcher for me because I thought, wait a minute, you guys are CPAs, you’re exposed to business all day, don’t05:42 – 06:15Geraldine Carter: you guys understand business by osmosis? And once I got behind the curtains, I was like, oh, you guys are business owners just like everybody else and you have a skill and a craft, but that doesn’t mean that you can turn that around and point it at your own business and be a super duper awesome business owner. We all get sucked into the craft of our business and have a hard time seeing how to run and operate our business from the outside looking in. And so that was how I got into coaching CPAs and you know we’re06:15 – 06:39Geraldine Carter: like I’m snug as a bug in a rug because I have an engineering degree. So we talk money, numbers and math and we do spreadsheets all day long and it’s super fun. Whereas with the, you know, the physical therapist and the license, whatever the, the, the family therapist, there was more money and number aversion. So it just wasn’t as easy. So I feel like I landed right where I was meant to be with the numbers people.06:40 – 06:57Rochelle Moulton: There’s also a word you use that I love, which is easy. It’s Like, you know, when you find that intersection of what you love with the people who really need it, there’s that sense of ease that comes from that. Did you ever feel like you’d have to like get a CPA?06:58 – 06:59Geraldine Carter: Oh, no.07:03 – 07:05Rochelle Moulton: You don’t have to be 1 to understand the business.07:06 – 07:08Geraldine Carter: Well you don’t have to understand tax,07:10 – 07:10Rochelle Moulton: right?07:11 – 07:15Geraldine Carter: Right. And tax gives me hives. The minute someone says 1120S I’m out.07:16 – 07:19Rochelle Moulton: But I don’t even know what that is. So I’m with you.07:20 – 07:55Geraldine Carter: So I know I have learned some of these things, but tax still honestly gives me highs, but it’s not, I don’t need to know tax. I need to understand the business and the business model. And especially because accounting and tax and CPA and so on come out of an hourly billing space. There are all the classic problems, downstream symptoms in their businesses that are mostly born of hourly billing and the mentality that comes with hourly billing. And even though they maybe half, not quite, probably have moved off of hourly billing as a pricing mechanism, there’s still07:55 – 08:09Geraldine Carter: the mindset that is lagging, if you will. It’s still an hourly billing mindset, even if the pricing mechanism is different. So we’re doing more the high-level Business model business strategy and I don’t go anywhere near tax08:09 – 08:42Rochelle Moulton: You know, it’s interesting though is I think you said this earlier is that you know, these are CPAs. So they’re presumably people who are logical thinkers and plan things. And your engineering background feels like it would be simpatico with that. And I mean, that’s another thing I think that’s really helpful when we’re trying to figure out, you know, what’s our niche, who are people is where we think like our audience and then where we’re different because the difference is usually the part of the Venn diagram where you are observing them. Yeah.08:42 – 08:53Geraldine Carter: And that has been super helpful because we think alike enough, we get each other, but we don’t think exactly the same. And the differential between the 2 is of enormous value.08:53 – 09:01Rochelle Moulton: It’s kind of like saying, well, what if what you think you see isn’t really what you see? I mean, it’s a fresh set of eyes.09:01 – 09:27Geraldine Carter: Yeah. And there’s so many things in the accounting space that have just been done this way for years. It’s just every space has this, right? Every industry has its culture. And accounting tax is no different. So there, I wouldn’t say they’re sacred cows, but there are a lot of things that are just taken as a given as this is how we do things. And like you say, it takes a fresh set of eyes to come in and be like, wait, what you do this? How? How now?09:27 – 09:28Rochelle Moulton: Why do you do that?09:28 – 09:36Geraldine Carter: Yeah, why do you do this? Why do you not plan out your tax season and who your clients are going to be and know how much room you have and shut the door when you don’t have room for more? How come you don’t close your door when you’re full?09:37 – 09:40Rochelle Moulton: That just boggles the mind right there. But okay.09:41 – 10:02Geraldine Carter: I mean, they have rationale for it. And if you follow it, it makes sense. You can follow their logic. And yet it leads them right into the same trap of being overworked but it’s just how they do things in the accounting space so it takes the non accountant to come in and be like okay hold on a minute this makes no sense and not only does it not make no sense I10:02 – 10:02Rochelle Moulton: mean it makes sense in the10:02 – 10:27Geraldine Carter: way that you think about it. But not only can we find a better way, that way is imminently doable, you will like it better, and you will make more money and you won’t have to work as many hours. But because they’re because the force of history is so significant, and they look around and they don’t see other people doing it in a new way. All they have is evidence for the other way. It feels really risky to try anything different.10:27 – 10:34Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, risky especially in a profession that is generally risk-averse. I mean, you want your accountant to be the steady10:34 – 11:03Geraldine Carter: man. They say that they are risk averse and they love this thread. I’m just gonna pick it up for half a minute. They love saying that they are risk averse, but they work long hours and risk missing their lives. They under price and they risk having to work extra hours in order to make up for it. They are generalists and risk having clients who are all over the map. Accountants love to say they are risk averse, but honestly, I can find a list of 10 ways that they are taking risks with their lives and with their11:03 – 11:05Geraldine Carter: business and with their profits and with their time.11:06 – 11:14Rochelle Moulton: I love that so much. I’m thinking of all the CPAs I’ve ever met and it describes a lot of them right there.11:18 – 11:23Geraldine Carter: I’m not going to any friends by saying this, but honestly, the phrase, well, we’re accountants, we’re risk averse is like a webby.11:23 – 11:52Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, yeah, I know. I hear that. It makes sense. Well, and truthfully, they’re not that different from the rest of us, if you think about it, because we’re all risk averse when, when we think there’s only 1 way to do something because it’s the only way that we’ve known. It’s kind of like coming out of corporate and starting consulting and saying, okay, So I’m going to have an hourly rate and then I’m going to take what I used to make. I’m going to throw in the benefits. I’m going to divide by however many hours I think11:52 – 12:00Rochelle Moulton: is right. And that’s going to be my hourly rate. I mean, you just have to start thinking differently and experimenting, right, until you find the right thing.12:01 – 12:35Geraldine Carter: I think 1 of the things about my audience is part of being a soloist and being inside your niche is really understanding how they think in ways that are different than how I just assume people think. And as an engineer kind of background, scientist-y kind of background, I don’t have any problem experimenting. I learn by breaking things and trying to put it back together. So that to me, that way of doing things seems to me like the normal and of course you would do it this way kind of way. But the thing that I needed to12:35 – 13:00Geraldine Carter: come to appreciate about the way that my people think is that they really like guidance, they really like rules, they want to do a good job, they want to do the right thing, and they need the guidance, the in-air quotes rules in order to be able to do a good job. And it provides them some ballast, if you will, to know that they’re in the right lane.13:00 – 13:01Rochelle Moulton: Yeah.13:01 – 13:37Geraldine Carter: So, I have to appreciate where they’re coming from and be able to appreciate their way of thinking about things so that I don’t just barge in with my own sort of like let’s just experiment what’s the big deal kind of attitude because it won’t work. It won’t be effective for them. And I think if I come in with that, it might kind of, I don’t want to say scare them off, but they might be more reluctant. Rather than if I come in kind of appreciating how they view changing things, going against the grain, in air quotes,13:37 – 14:09Geraldine Carter: risk, and doing it in a way that feels safe, that doesn’t feel like they’re gonna blow a hole in the boat of their business. Doing things in a way that does feel like, okay, I can just run a swatch test on the segment of clients to see how this goes. And if it goes horribly, nobody will know. So there’s, I think, real value in being different from your niche, understanding, being the same as you’re, like, in some ways similar to your niche in some ways different but also really appreciating how they view the world and not14:09 – 14:14Geraldine Carter: assuming that your worldview is doesn’t everybody have this worldview.14:14 – 14:45Rochelle Moulton: Yes and I think that’s important to insert into your point of view and then you fold that into the practices that you create to actually do your work. I mean, when you were describing it, the word that kept flashing in neon for me was coach. I mean, because what you’re doing is you’re meeting them where they are, and then figuring out where they want to go and helping them to get there. It’s like you’re building the bridge, or maybe you’re bringing part of a bridge that’s already built and then you build the rest together.14:46 – 15:18Geraldine Carter: Yeah, and the thing that I’m, the thing that I love doing the most is help them get where they want to go, but even...

The Soloist Life podcast welcomes you into real, gutsy conversations with revolution leaders, authors, and Soloists who are kicking butt and taking names. We’re uncovering the very best ideas, strategies and mindset shifts to build your ideal life the soloist way. Hosted by Rochelle Moulton, author of The Authority Code and champion of the Soloist life.