The Soloist Life

Entrepreneur Lucy Flores shares her journey of building a values-aligned business in the U.S. food system. She discusses niching into food equity, forming alliances, marketing strategies, investing in relationships, and adopting a 'safe to fail' mindset. Flores emphasizes collaboration, courage, and cautious optimism in pursuing mission-driven work.

Everyone has difficulties in life—and sometimes our unique genius arises from how we deal with them. Take Psychotherapist Jeff Eamer who turned a challenging mental health diagnosis into a life of purpose:How he moved from being an award-winning ad agency wonderkind to nabbing a 3-picture Hollywood deal.Why crashing—hard—led him to get help with his mental health.When saying yes to a $100K investment and six years of study and practice was exactly the right move.The importance of building and maintaining routines and boundaries.The signals that might mean it’s time to ask for help with your mental health.LINKSJeff Eamer Website | LinkedIn | Desert SunRochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramBIOJeff is an international award-winning advertising art director, copywriter and commercial film director. He had a brief stint in Hollywood as a screenwriter and producer on the film Coyote Ugly.He has dedicated much of the last 25 years supporting the mental health community as a Suicide Prevention Counselor, Psychotherapist, and member of the Los Angeles Crisis Response Team.He currently lives on his desert ranch with his two dogs: Koda, a 14-year-old black Lab and Ruby, a 10-month old Border Collie. Along with 11 chickens: Scarlett, Mrs. T., Cathy, GPT6, Beatrice, Gypsy Rose, Betty White, Griswald, Honey and Seva.BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLERESOURCES FOR SOLOISTSJoin the Soloist email list: helping thousands of Soloist Consultants smash through their revenue plateau.Soloist Events: in-person events for Soloists to gather and learn.The Soloist Women community: a place to connect with like-minded women (and join a channel dedicated to your revenue level).The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 - 00:33Jeff Eamer: I've been influenced profoundly by the symptoms of mental illness, and it created a phenomenon that created certain challenges that I could then relate to with my clients. So if I have a superpower in all of this, it's a greater sense of relatedness. And so when clients come spend time with me, I'm much more perhaps congruent or authentic and transparent than probably most therapists are. And so when clients come spend time with me, I'm much more perhaps congruent or authentic and transparent than probably most therapists are. Than probably most therapists are.00:33 - 01:13Rochelle Moulton: Hello, hello. Welcome to the Soloist Life podcast where we're all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I'm Rochelle Moulton and today I'm here with my pal, Jeff Eamer, who's an international award-winning advertising art director, copywriter and commercial film director. He had a brief stint in Hollywood as a screenwriter and producer on the film Coyote Ugly. He has dedicated much of the last 25 years supporting the mental health community as a suicide prevention counselor, psychotherapist, and member of the Los Angeles Crisis Response Team. He currently serves as a psychotherapist and lives on his desert ranch01:13 - 01:27Rochelle Moulton: with his 2 dogs, Koda, a 14-year-old black lab, and Ruby, a 10-month-old border collie, along with 11 cleverly named chickens who may be making a cameo appearance. Jeff, welcome.01:28 - 01:31Jeff Eamer: Thank you, Rachelle, and my chickens thank you, too.01:32 - 02:06Rochelle Moulton: All 11 of them. So, Jeff, we first met in LA maybe 15 years ago. And I only knew bits and pieces of your backstory, which was all about the ad world and the creative life of glitz and glamour that can be LA when you work in film. But in 2015, you had a major event in your life that completely changed how you work and how you live. And when you said you were willing to talk about this and your experience with mental health, I knew that we had to have this conversation because mental health, especially amongst02:06 - 02:28Rochelle Moulton: entrepreneurs, is so rarely discussed openly. So let's dive in. Why don't you set the scene for us? So it's 2015, you're in LA, you've been doing design work as a soloist, you know, for pay, along with your volunteer service with suicide prevention and crisis response. You're enjoying life. What happened?02:29 - 03:09Jeff Eamer: Okay, here we go. Well, we'll have to backtrack a little bit to 1995, which technically is when I dropped into the soloist mindset and self-employment. So, and we're gonna sort of take a trip through bipolar disorder so your audience can kind of get a sense of how I experienced it and some of the challenges were around that as I was at that point in the advertising world. So I had joined McCann Erickson in the early 80s and I spent about 15 years as an agency guy, as you mentioned. I bounced from major agency to major agency,03:10 - 03:48Jeff Eamer: McCann Erickson, as I mentioned, J. Walter Thompson, Young and Rueckham, all of the really big ones. And I ended up at Leo Burnett. Now through that 15 year period I had tremendous highs and tremendous lows and I referred to as states of bipolarity. The technical term is bipolar disorder and during that period in the what would be the manic states my creativity was truly remarkable. There was a problem with it, though, because at a certain point, it got out of control, in that my state of righteousness and state of arrogance and hubris kicked in. And I03:48 - 04:26Jeff Eamer: think I was terribly proud of in hindsight, but that's what was happening. So during that 15-year period, I lost jobs. I was self-employed through that entire period. I lost jobs for 1 of 2 reasons, because I was clinically depressed so bad that I could no longer work. And I was hospitalized and I was hospitalized 5 times for suicidal ideation and for in fact, suicide attempts. Sadly, I'm really shitty at killing myself. And the last time, I can make jokes of it. It's just crazy that world as a suicide prevention counselor, I talked to 3, 000 people04:26 - 04:58Jeff Eamer: and of course it's tragic, but life is tragically crazy sometimes too. So I would lose a job in the clinically depressed state. I'd also lose jobs in a manic state and I would be fired. And the last time that happened, I was working at Leo Burnett and as fate would have it, I was doing incredible work. I was doing the job that they asked me to do to create a better profile for the agency. And I was doing that. The problem was I was doing it in ways that the agency wasn't comfortable with. And they determined04:58 - 05:10Jeff Eamer: I was more of a liability than asset. And so they, you know, the creative director walked into my office 1 morning. I thought he had an envelope and I thought, you know, I'm either getting a raise or I'm getting fired.05:10 - 05:11Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, no in between.05:11 - 05:41Jeff Eamer: Yeah. And I knew when he was kind of shaking handing it to me, so I thought, ah, this is not going to be good. But again, in that state, it was like, well, I'll be fine. So as opposed to trying to get another job, this is when I kicked into being self-employed. And in fact, by definition, and your definition of soloist, so this is what took place. I thought, well, I got some money, so I'm going down to down to Florida. My brother lived down there and he had a big motorcycle and I think I paid05:41 - 06:09Jeff Eamer: him some money to buy it. I don't know if I actually technically bought it. And I went to West Palm Beach and I got on this motorcycle and I was riding to Key West. I was gonna go all the way down there. And I stopped in Miami at the News Cafe. And I'm sitting there and as I want to do, There was a pretty girl across the way, and we sort of locked eyes, and they said, would you like to join me? She said yes. And I sat with her, and she said, what do you do?06:10 - 06:40Jeff Eamer: And I said, well, and I thought for a moment, I said, I'm a director. And I wasn't a director. I hadn't directed anything at that point, but it sounded like a good answer, again, in that very state of which I believed anything. And she said, well, what are you working on? I said, well, I don't have any projects right now, but I think when I get back to Toronto there's going to be 1 waiting for me. So I said goodbye and I spent some time with her and then I thundered down to Key West and then06:40 - 07:11Jeff Eamer: I returned to Toronto. And because I was a writer I could actually freelance as a writer. So I went into this agency and they had this campaign it was for a back then a big record retailer it's called Sam's and and they had this giveaway there for every album you bought they they gave away a box of macaroni so I write this campaign about macaroni aid, which is sort of like far made. It was like a farce on that. And I said to the creative director, I said, look, you guys don't have enough money to do07:11 - 07:44Jeff Eamer: this, but I can get support from a production company and I can direct these. And he said, Well, you're right, we don't have the money to do it. So, you know, if a production company is willing to front this for you to get your real started, then sure, go ahead and direct them. And so began my career of being technically self-employed. That was directing this contract work. You work with the production agency, but technically I was self-employed. So that's how I began the process of going off on my own. And it certainly went from there.07:45 - 08:05Rochelle Moulton: With a lot of confidence, which makes me smile, because not all soloists start with confidence. Sometimes they have to like work up to it. But so, all right, so that was the start of your soloist career. So you're in LA, can we fast forward to 2015 or is there another event in there that we should we should talk about first?08:05 - 08:44Jeff Eamer: I think there's a few things along the way and so I was still in Toronto then and again sort of there's there's a line between confidence and and overconfidence perhaps And I would straddle that line when my moods would shift. And then of course there was like times when I had no confidence at all. And I don't lay my career or my life at the feet of my mental health diagnosis. I don't, I had other problems of not taking about accountability and not being responsible. And so it wasn't just that, that just made it worse. But08:44 - 09:22Jeff Eamer: what I found was interesting is that I could believe in something to such a degree that I could make it happen. You know, I don't want anyone to think I could win the lottery just because I think I bought the ticket, but especially in business and in business circumstances, I could actually envision something and move towards making it happen with no evidence that it should happen. But I had a vision, and as somebody who was self-employed, I could do a lot of different things. So I actually, this story started, I was in Los Angeles. I actually09:22 - 09:54Jeff Eamer: created a board game called Rumors, and that's a whole other story, but I was standing on the Venice Boardwalk at the bottom of Westminster. It right, I could take you to this spot right now, There is this giant peace sign that was painted on the ground. And I stood in the middle of that peace sign. Now, this is 1995. I was in Toronto, as I mentioned. I had no ability to work in the United States. I had no green card. I had no job. I had no access to do what I'm about to say. I was09:54 - 10:33Jeff Eamer: standing there and I said, 1 day, I'm going to live and work in Los Angeles and make movies with no possibility of doing that in that moment. But I had the vision that this was gonna happen. And fast forward to 1999, I go back to that spot and I'm standing there and I did it. I was in Los Angeles working on a major motion picture, living there. And do you know where I was living? I was living in the building in front of where I stood. I was living in the Westminster Hotel, the very spot that10:33 - 11:05Jeff Eamer: I said 5 years before that I would work and live. And not only was I working and living, I was living exactly where I was standing 5 years earlier. And I think What's interesting with that is vision. And a lot of times people think that they need, they need money to start something and they'll, they'll get stuck or they don't know enough how to do it. And so, well, I don't know how to do it and I don't have money. So I'm just going to give up before I started. And what I realized is you neither11:05 - 11:41Jeff Eamer: need money or the skill in that moment to do it. You just need to believe that you can do it. I remember my son once said, Dad, you've done a lot of really interesting things. How have you done this? I said, well, I'm stubborn and I'm naive. And sometimes those qualities are really great because you're stubborn, you're not gonna quit, and you're naive, you don't think you can't do it. And so you just start doing it. You take the first step and then you take the second step. But the vision of where you want to be11:42 - 11:54Jeff Eamer: is so important and to not so much worry about how you're going to get there. Sometimes the universe gives you a tremendous amount of support if you're clear about what it is that you want to do.11:55 - 12:03Rochelle Moulton: Clarity is such a critical part of this because it's hard to know what the next step is if you don't know where you want to wind up.12:03 - 12:08Jeff Eamer: Oh, and sometimes you step in a pile of shit, Rachelle. I mean, so you know, it's not like...12:09 - 12:11Rochelle Moulton: Oh, no, that never happens.12:12 - 12:45Jeff Eamer: It's not like all the steps are the right ones, But then you learn, you go, wow, better not step in that pile again. But that's that that's how you get there. And I think there's a lot of notion to, wow, there's so many stories about people who have failed multiple times. And every time they failed, I think it was Edison, I figured out 999 ways not to make a light bulb. You know, so that is the process of getting there. And when you're by yourself, it's really tough because you don't have somebody there that can say,12:45 - 13:13Jeff Eamer: that can bolster you, you don't have a partner, you don't have employees, and they're like, we're gonna do it, boss. You're on your own. And yes, you can surround yourself with people who are supportive. And eventually you have to bring a lot of people into your life, relative to that vision, in terms of making it happen. But I think, as I mentioned earlier, the mistake a lot of people make is they don't think they have the time or skill to actually complete it and said they don't even start.13:14 - 13:35Rochelle Moulton: Gotcha, gotcha. So I wanna bring you to 2015. So you did the movie thing, then you didn't do the movie thing, right? When I met you, you were art directing, basically, and writing. And so you did that for a number of years. And then 2015, talk to us, what happened?13:35 - 14:07Jeff Eamer: Yes, I was in the film business and then I was out of the film business. It was in Hollywood East stories to how that ended. Not how I would have imagined and again I have to bring in the mental illness piece. At that point, when I got to LA, I was critically depressed. A few months later, based on taking a medication that I wasn't aware was going to have the impact that it did, but it ricocheted me into a manic state. And so my film career took an incredible hit because of that time period, and I14:07 - 14:37Jeff Eamer: never went on to make what were the next 2 pictures. I had a three-picture deal. And so from that point, I was in Los Angeles with nothing to do. When you apply for a green card, you can't leave the country because they won't let you back in until there's a determination as to whether or not you're gonna get it or not. So I'm like, what am I gonna do? Well, the first thing I did was I volunteered. I was flipping through a newspaper back when there were newspapers, and there was an ad for a suicide prevention14:37 - 15:10Jeff Eamer: counselor, volunteers. And so I went there and I talked to the director, and I said, hey, I don't know much about being a counselor, but I know a lot about being suicidal. And he asked me a bunch of questions. He said, yep, you qualify. So I spent 4 years there. 1 as a volunteer, the next 3 as a supervisor. But during that time, I wasn't making much money doing that. So during that time, I technically was continued to be a soloist. So I was working on design projects, and that's how I actually met you, Rochelle. And15:10 - 15:50Jeff Eamer: I think that wasn't 2015. That was a few years before that. But during that time period, I just dropped back into being self-employed and just working on my own. I had a lot of freedom to do a lot of different kinds of projects. I did design projects, I did some writing projects. I was still writing in the entertainment world, but not all that much, just some projects that got optioned. And so that period from 2000 and basically 1 to 2015, I continued as being a very small soloist. I was just making enough money to live in15:50 - 16:28Jeff Eamer: Venice, to live in this tiny little bachelor apartment. I was gonna live in the dream, but at a certain point, my work wasn't very satisfying. I really didn't want to give it my all to working on design and branding projects. And I thought, well, I can't sell my...

What if the standard productivity advice gets it wrong? What if your performance, health and happiness are grounded in how well you manage your energy, not your time?Jim Loehr and Tony Schwartz’s The Power of Full Engagement makes an excellent case for the role of energy in performance:The four types of energy—physical, emotional, mental and spiritual—and how they interrelate.How harnessing all energy sources allows us to optimize our productivity, happiness and engagement in the world around us.Why life—and work—isn’t a marathon, but a series of sprints (and why you want to manage your energy like a sprinter).How to get back on track when your energy sags.The role of your purpose and the amount of energy you invest in yourself vs. others.LINKSRochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramBOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLERESOURCES FOR SOLOISTSJoin the Soloist email list: helping thousands of Soloist Consultants smash through their revenue plateau.Soloist Events: in-person events for Soloists to gather and learn.The Soloist Women community: a place to connect with like-minded women (and join a channel dedicated to your revenue level).The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 - 00:47Rochelle Moulton: We have to learn to adapt our system, our bodies, our emotions, our minds, and our spirits to be able to flex up to perform and then down to rest and rejuvenate. Hello, hello. Welcome to the Soloist Life podcast where we're all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I'm Rochelle Moulton and today I want to talk to you about managing energy instead of time. Now I started down this path when podcast guest, Joe Jacoby recommended the book, The Power of Full Engagement, Managing Energy, Not Time, is the key to High Performance and Personal Renewal by00:47 - 01:27Rochelle Moulton: Jim Lehrer and Tony Schwartz. I mean, when an Olympic gold medalist recommends a book on performance, you pay attention. So this came up because a few weeks back, I dedicated an episode to productivity for soloists. And I did that because a lot of us have internalized productivity as going 90 miles an hour to complete an endless to-do list versus carefully choosing what you want to pay attention to so you can Optimize your results. Optimize, not maximize. Well, this book, which I heartily recommend, by the way, is all about making sure you have the energy to tackle01:27 - 02:06Rochelle Moulton: what you decide is most important to you. You can't do everything you want, but you can manage your energy so you can do the things that matter most. Like the David Allen book, Getting Things Done, this is not a new book. It came out in 2003, But the principles are evergreen. And side note, if you're going to write an expertise book, this is how you do it. 20 years later, people are still talking about it and recommending it and buying it. So Let's start with this quote from the book. Every 1 of our thoughts, emotions, and02:06 - 02:50Rochelle Moulton: behaviors has an energy consequence for better or for worse, which means that your performance, health, and happiness, all critical to maintaining an optimal, soloist life, are grounded in how well you manage your energy. And they see 4 types of energy, physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual. And when we harness all of those energies is when we can truly optimize not just our productivity, but our happiness and our engagement with the world around us. Another thing that struck me here is that life isn't a marathon. In fact, it's a series of sprints, not unlike high-intensity interval training. We02:50 - 03:32Rochelle Moulton: just aren't wired to work, say, 8 hours straight at a desk and perform consistently well without taking recovery breaks. I should mention that before writing this book, the authors had spent 30 years working with world-class athletes in professional sports to design precisely what it takes to perform consistently at the highest levels under intense competitive pressures. Over 80 of the world's best tennis players, for example, went through their laboratory. The athletes were already gifted and accomplished, so the authors' focus was helping them to manage their energy more effectively to serve their mission. Eventually, they turned their attention03:32 - 04:11Rochelle Moulton: to executives, arguing that professional athletes had far shorter competitive careers than a typical executive or consultant. How people like us manage our energy defines the quality and the quantity of what we can achieve during the course of our careers and our lives. So can you see why I got so excited about this concept? The younger and healthier we are, the easier it is to just power through and keep working longer hours to get things done. But that only works for so long. And I'm not buying that those hours when you're exhausted were your most productive. We04:11 - 04:58Rochelle Moulton: have to learn to adapt our system, our bodies, our emotions, our minds, and our spirits to be able to flex up to perform and then down to rest and rejuvenate. Maximum performance is possible when our energy is pleasantly, positively high. We feel invigorated, confident, challenged, joyful, and connected. So how do we get more of that? All right, let's talk about physical energy first. I like their comparison of marathon runners to sprinters. If you think about it, the long distance runners usually look gaunt, a little shrunken, emotionally flat even, while the sprinters, and I'm picturing Usain Bolt04:58 - 05:41Rochelle Moulton: here, look powerful, bursting with energy and ready to push themselves against their limits. We want to become sprinters who can see the finish line clearly 100 or 200 meters down the track or set a different way. We must balance our energy expenditures with intermittent energy renewal. We have to learn how to rhythmically spend and renew energy, spend and renew. So how do we do that? By pushing beyond our normal limits, training in the same systemic ways that elite athletes do. The authors even argue that stress is not the enemy. In fact, it's the key to growth.05:42 - 06:25Rochelle Moulton: We systematically stress a muscle, expending more than normal energy, and then we give it a bit, 24 to 48 hours to recover, and it grows better able to handle the next stress. And we're not just talking physical muscles, we're talking about building muscles in every dimension of our lives, physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual. And the last piece of building energy is developing positive rituals, highly specific routines for managing energy, which are the key to sustained high performance. So just to recap so far, there are 4 essential principles to manage your energy. 1, draw on the 406:25 - 07:16Rochelle Moulton: separate but related sources of energy, physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual. 2, balance energy expenditures with intermittent energy renewal. 3, push beyond your normal limits training systematically. And 4, build positive energy rituals. So where do you start? Well, with your physical body, because too much energy expended without sufficient recovery eventually leads to burnout and breakdown. And too much Recovery without sufficient stress leads to atrophy and weakness. So the key is to find the right balance for you. And you can read the book for suggestions and stories about exactly how to do that. But here's the thing. You07:16 - 08:01Rochelle Moulton: follow exactly the same process—physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually. Stress yourself just enough, recover just enough, and you'll grow. If you don't, you'll either burn out or atrophy, And neither 1 of those will lead to your best work or your best life. In fact, when we don't invest enough energy in all 4 dimensions, thinking we can just spend energy indefinitely, we can become flatliners. When we're in flow with all 4, we develop a rhythm, healthy patterns of activity and rest. Just last week, I was feeling out of sorts and realized I'd been giving my spiritual energy short08:01 - 08:34Rochelle Moulton: shrift. So I took a day off, I got in my car, and I headed for an area where I feel inspired, and then I spent most of the day taking photographs and just feeling the beauty around me. I went home feeling like a million bucks, and I slept like a baby. Now for you, it might be something completely different. Maybe you'll go listen to or play some music, have a deep conversation with a friend or a spiritual advisor, whatever that looks like. It's a muscle that needs attention, especially when you're busy or your mind is fully08:34 - 09:11Rochelle Moulton: occupied. We need breaks, intermittent rest periods to perform at our best. Now, I've worked with many clients who are embarrassed to admit that their energy falters during the day. It's like they think it's a personal failing that their energy has a valley. And the antidote is so simple, especially for soloists, because you have control over your workspace. Take a walk, do a few yoga poses, take a nap, generally a short 1 of about 40 minutes, according to a NASA study. During the war, Winston Churchill famously put his jammies on in the middle of the day and09:11 - 09:51Rochelle Moulton: went to bed for a sleep somewhere between lunch and dinner. And he swore it was the only way he could cope with his enormous responsibilities. Rest and recover, rest and recover. Now this book is definitely targeted at executives with way less flexibility than the average soloist. We are fortunate that we have so much control. But not all of us use that control. Some of us are still tied to that grind because it's our anchor. We think working hard all the time is required to be successful. But what if working too hard pushes us away from what09:51 - 10:30Rochelle Moulton: we want most as soloists? Plenty of revenue, free time, flexibility, and impact. I know it's paradoxical, but we need to find, not balance exactly, but stress and recovery, stress and recovery, in manageable increments over time. And my most perfect flow of that was probably when I was writing my first book. I decided I was going to finish it no matter what, and I committed to an aggressive writing schedule, 2 hours a day until I produced a first draft. I thought of it much like training for an event. I kept my workout routine intact, so I had10:30 - 11:02Rochelle Moulton: that way to bleed off the stress, the worry that maybe this wasn't going to work. And I committed to not going over the 2 hours. Now, I did slip up 1 day. I was just on fire, and I wrote for 4 hours, but I paid for it the next day. And I learned and I didn't do that again. I had planned easy to prepare nourishing foods. I told the hubby no fancy socializing, just time with good friends for emotional renewal. I was so in flow even when I got stressed about how to deal with, say, a11:02 - 11:40Rochelle Moulton: particular idea or a chapter, I'd stop after the 2 hours, go gaze at the mountains, get a good night's sleep, and wake up with the answer. And when it was all done, I had a first draft I was really proud of. Creating new things can absolutely be like that when you structure your life and commit yourself to a method that feeds all 4 of your energy sources. I encourage you to read this book, especially for the section on harnessing your mental energy. It is a masterful discussion of how to fuel your mental energy with preparation, visualization,11:41 - 12:24Rochelle Moulton: positive self-talk, effective time management, and creativity. They also ask about how you see your purpose. How much energy do you invest in yourself and how much in others? And how comfortable are you with the balance? How wisely and productively are you investing your energy? I know 1 thing to be true about this. When you find your personal formula to harness your energy and renew it effectively, you will literally be unstoppable. So on that note, I shall sign off. I hope you'll join us next time for The Soloist Life. Bye-bye.

When you’ve been on staff at an organization—especially in the lead role— transitioning to consulting can be a bit disorienting. Consultant to credit unions Mark Triechel talks about the lessons learned in his switch from regulating an industry to advising them:How to quickly morph from “retirement” into a Soloist expertise business serving your former constituents.Dealing with non-competes and ethics clauses honorably while building your new business.Becoming a “Soloist with a twist”—why you don’t have to work alone.How “changing teams” allows you to continue serving an existing niche in new (and profitable) ways.Turning what could have become a pure compliance practice into a strategic advisory business.LINKSMark Treichel Website | LinkedInRochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramBIOIn 33 years at the federal agency known as the National Credit Union Administration, Mark led the agency as Executive Director after starting at the entry level. His varied positions at every level give him a unique perspective on all things NCUA.He “changed teams” and is now in his fourth year of consulting with NCUA credit unions so they save time and money. He has two credit union educational podcasts: With Flying Colors and Credit Union Regulatory Guidance.His clients consider his team as secret weapons in the regulatory battles they face every year.BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLE RESOURCES FOR SOLOISTSJoin the Soloist email list: helping thousands of Soloist Consultants smash through their revenue plateau.Soloist Events: in-person events for Soloists to gather and learn.The Soloist Women community: a place to connect with like-minded women (and join a channel dedicated to your revenue level).The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 - 00:16Mark Treichel: It's really important that your ideal client knows that you exist. And figuring out who the ideal client is 1 big piece. If they're not aware that I'm here, they're not going to know that they can hire me.00:22 - 01:01Rochelle Moulton: Hello, hello. Welcome to the Soloist Life podcast where we're all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I'm Rochelle Moulton and today I'm here with Mark Treichel. In 33 years at the federal agency known as the National Credit Union Administration, Mark led the agency as executive director after starting at the entry level. His varied positions at every level give him a unique perspective on all things NCUA. He changed teams and is now in his fourth year of consulting with NCUA credit unions so they save time and money. He has 2 credit union educational podcasts with01:01 - 01:12Rochelle Moulton: flying colors and credit union regulatory guidance. Mark's clients consider his team as secret weapons in the regulatory battles they face every year. Mark, welcome.01:13 - 01:15Mark Treichel: Thanks Rochelle. I'm excited to be here today.01:15 - 01:33Rochelle Moulton: Well, I have to say, Mark, when we first met, you were just getting your business off the ground and living in an RV, at least some of the time. I mean, I remember your Zoom backdrop quite well. So maybe you could tell us the story about how you came to start your consulting business?01:34 - 02:12Mark Treichel: Yeah, absolutely Rochelle. So yeah, when I retired, my wife and I had previously, just a few months before that, bought a Class B RV. And for the non-RVers, a class B is the van, right? So it's a van that's souped up to live in. It's a small footprint, but our goal was, I was planning to retire, use the RV to drive around, go to concerts and maybe dabble in consulting. So I made the announcement I was retiring in January, that I would be retiring in June, and that was right before COVID and the pandemic took off.02:12 - 02:45Mark Treichel: So you know my replacement was announced, I knew I was going to be leaving. And when we got to June, of course, the pandemic was still going on. And so we had the RV. We also have a lake place, which was the only sticks and bricks, as RVers call it. A sticks and bricks home was in the Adirondack Mountains. And so with COVID, we really couldn't RV that much. And so I started listening to podcasts, doing yard work. I was fortunate that I was kind of off in the mountains. So life seemed a little bit normal.02:45 - 03:21Mark Treichel: And I knew I was gonna have 1 or 2 clients because I had a couple people contact me before I retired. And what happened was I was listening to your podcast, another podcast, learning about doing a consulting business. And I relied on some advice from my dad who never consulted. And he worked for AT&T back when there was only 1 phone company. He worked at AT&T and he was part of when all the phone companies got distributed to Northwestern Bell, et cetera, Southern Bell. And he had opportunities to consult, but he never pursued them. And he03:21 - 03:51Mark Treichel: told me once later in life that he regretted that. And he said, if I want to do it, I need to do it relatively close to when I retire, because he said, people stopped calling. They called the first few months, they called the first year, and in the second year, people stopped calling. And so his name recognition and his expertise, he said no so many times, they thought, hey, he doesn't wanna do it. So essentially, I took 2 months off in the mountains, listened to podcasts, and learned a lot about how to stand up my business.03:52 - 04:26Mark Treichel: And I really kind of pivoted and said, I think I'm going to throw myself into this because there's nothing else to do really because of the pandemic. And essentially now I'm working full time. I don't consider myself retired. I've built the business into more than I ever anticipated. And then the interesting thing is we get to November, the Adirondack Mountains in November are not really a place you want to be. So we got in the RV, we headed to Florida and we lived in the RV for 6 straight months down in Florida going from state park04:26 - 04:59Mark Treichel: to state park. And that's essentially where and when I started the business. I dabbled in it a little bit before that, but we got on the road. I was doing training classes, listening to podcasts, hiring coaches, and then picking up an occasional client those first 6 months. So it was kind of born really, the beginning of the business was born there in the RV, which was an interesting way to start. It was a good conversation piece. Like you said, the background was kind of good for those conversations, but that's essentially how it started. And I really04:59 - 05:07Mark Treichel: think ironically, if not for the pandemic, I might not have thrown so much energy into it and I might not be having as much fun as I'm having today.05:07 - 05:09Rochelle Moulton: It's that divine timing.05:09 - 05:10Mark Treichel: Right, right.05:10 - 05:19Rochelle Moulton: Plus, I understand you're still happily married. So those 6 months in the van creating a business. Yes, Yes. Not everybody can survive that. That's awesome.05:19 - 05:24Mark Treichel: It's funny because we've had friends that say, wait, you know, if I did that with my spouse, we'd have to have 2 vans.05:27 - 05:43Rochelle Moulton: Exactly. Exactly. So I'm just curious. So what kinds of pressures did you feel starting your business? Because you had a long and pretty public career, right? Did you have, like, was there a non-compete? I don't know if the government does such a05:43 - 06:20Mark Treichel: thing. Yeah, great question. So there is a non-compete in ethics clauses that come into play. I could not be involved in anything that I had a direct hand in for 12 months, and then there was another rule for 24 months. The interesting thing was, while I was executive director, my team of executives actually took most of the direct actions. I was, as the executive director, you're kind of the conduit between a politically appointed board of directors and staff. And so I would be guiding my staff, communicating what the board wanted done, but the actual actions were06:20 - 06:51Mark Treichel: taken by somebody else. So ironically, while I was involved in everything, I didn't actually make decisions on a lot of things. And it's that decision piece that precludes you from certain things. So I could immediately take on clients because none of the actual credit unions that are around in the country, and there's like 5, 000 of them, none of them actually directly reported to me or did I take a specific action on. So it uniquely kind of positioned me to be able to hit the ground running. Now pressure wise, ironically, so when I was at NCUA06:52 - 07:19Mark Treichel: as an executive, the pressures I had there was working for a politically appointed board and which would change every couple of years there'd be a new person. So the politics of that created pressure and then managing the staff below me created pressures. But then leaving and retiring and actually maybe for the first time being able to speak from my own voice only was actually very freeing.07:19 - 07:19Rochelle Moulton: Yeah.07:20 - 07:50Mark Treichel: Because if you think about a political board with 3 board members, each 1 of them has their agenda. And then you have my direct reports. Each 1 of them have their responsibilities. And when I would go out to speech, my brain to speak, my brain would go through this process of, okay, these 3 board members each would want me to say it this way. My staff is expecting me to say it this way. So my brain would come up with, here's the way to say this publicly to serve all those audiences. Now that I don't have07:50 - 08:27Mark Treichel: to do that, I'm basically giving my opinion to my client. It's like the parting of the Red Sea for me because my opinion is my opinion, And I can help them by giving them what my truth is. And so essentially weren't pressures. And I guess the other piece is with where I'm at in my life, when I retired, I was 57 with a nice government pension. I didn't have financial pressures. So I was really kind of taking clay and forming it, and it was really a playground of what can I do, what systems can I learn,08:27 - 08:33Mark Treichel: what clients can I pick up, you know, how do I get my ideal clients? So it was really kind of like I was just having fun.08:34 - 08:59Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, well, and the other thing that's interesting is, you know, most of the people listening probably don't have a politically appointed board, but what a great sort of Petri dish to figure out how to deal with all different kinds of personalities and get things done. And so I feel like that freedom, that newfound freedom that you had afterwards, but you also had this knowledge of what it's like to deal with people with different agendas.09:00 - 09:11Mark Treichel: Boy, you're right. Yeah. And trying to come up with a way to serve all the parties turned out to be a very marketable skill when I left and in the niche that I chose to work with.09:11 - 09:15Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. So how long did it take you to hit your first hundred thousand?09:16 - 09:20Mark Treichel: I would say less than 6 months.09:20 - 09:21Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, that's fast.09:22 - 09:57Mark Treichel: It was quick. And the niche is very small. There are 4, 800 credit unions. And the reality is with the team that I put together and the services that I am now able to offer and that I actually was able to offer right out of the gate, there's really probably only 20% of them that I tend to cater to. So we're talking a small group of say a thousand potential clients, but they also have decent budgets. And if they're dealing with issues, particularly with my expertise and knowing the agency that regulates them, there's not a lot09:57 - 10:04Mark Treichel: of options other than me and my team right now. So I've, while it's a very small market, there's not a lot of competition.10:05 - 10:25Rochelle Moulton: Well, and a thousand targets is quite a lot when you're 1 guy. And we'll talk about, you know, your team in a minute. But the point I want to make here is you can make a very nice business and living, targeting a relatively small group of people if you've got the right story to tell and the right expertise.10:25 - 10:27Mark Treichel: Yeah, I would agree with that, absolutely.10:27 - 10:42Rochelle Moulton: So how did you look at your soloist earnings? Were they like sort of the cherry on the Sunday? Or did you feel like from a revenue standpoint like you had something to prove? I mean you said that you know you weren't worried about money, you had your pension, but I'm just curious how you thought about it.10:42 - 11:15Mark Treichel: That's a great question. I never thought about it as something to prove, but that's probably a little bit of what's going on because, again, 33 years as a government employee made a very good salary. It's an agency that pays well. However, working for the government is different than working in private practice. So it was really kind of an opportunity to say, okay, what can I do in the private sector? So I don't know if it's something to prove or let's just see what I can do. And the other thing is, I know you recently had an11:15 - 11:29Mark Treichel: episode with a financial planner, and I have a financial planner that I utilized on occasion. And 1 of the things he said to me, I love quotes, but he said this quote, it's better to give with a warm hand than a cold hand.11:30 - 11:31Rochelle Moulton: I'm thinking about that.11:31 - 12:00Mark Treichel: Meaning give early. And so I've got 2 daughters, I've got 2 granddaughters, a third granddaughter on the way and it's nice to be able to have extra money to go visit them, to have them come visit me, to assist them and see them have some of their pressures relieved, you know, early in life as opposed to, you know, hopefully 30 years down the road, you know, whatever's left in the state. This provides the opportunity to do a little bit more of that.12:00 - 12:07Rochelle Moulton: Do it now. And the audience doesn't know that you're recording from Cleveland, where you're visiting 1 of your daughters.12:08 - 12:19Mark Treichel: Exactly. Yes. And I think I might join the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame here because I'm going to be here for quite a bit this summer. So there's a good opportunity there to kind of tap into what Cleveland has.12:20 - 12:54Rochelle Moulton: That's awesome. So I want to kind of throw in something that I remember from our discussions, I don't know, 2 years, 3 years back. And I remember when you started targeting your universe of credit union people and You know you talked about how it's essentially a thousand people but can you just sort of give like a sort of a bird's-eye view of how you looked at this because I remember at the time feeling like you were being very thoughtful and smart about how you did this.12:54 - 13:29Mark Treichel: So 1 advantage that I have is that there's public data and information available for credit unions. So the 4, 800 credit unions have to file quarterly financial reports. The names of their CEOs are available. The names of their executives are available. And I knew some of those folks. So I really dove hard into LinkedIn. And see, I retired on June 30th and I did a post. I've got a picture of myself with the American flag that was taken when I was at NCAA on the 4th of July. I did this post about that I retired and13:29 - 14:05Mark Treichel: how much I missed credit unions, but that I would be doing a little bit of consulting. It was probably, actually ironically in my 5 years on LinkedIn, aggressively, it was probably my most liked post. So I really hit LinkedIn very hard relative to reaching out and making people aware of the fact that I was doing what I was doing, but trying to do it in a thoughtful way. 1 of my coaches early on suggested that, when I mentioned that I was connected with, at that time, maybe 800 CEOs on LinkedIn, he gave me some ideas on14:05 - 14:39Mark Treichel: how to capitalize that and get some emails. So I started down the email path and then listening to your podcasts, the concept about starting a podcast. So I learned early on that it was really going to be critically important for people to know that I existed. The part about who my ideal client was, which can be a challenge sometimes for I think for some people who are pivoting, That was easy for me because I had the list of the 4, 800 credit unions and then really the targeted list of the thousand credit unions of who those14:39 - 14:45Mark Treichel: clients were. So the important thing really became how do I make them know I'm doing what I'm doing?14:45 - 14:50Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. And so there's a lot of one-to-one kind of communications in that process.14:51 - 15:25Mark Treichel: Lots of one-to-one communications, you know, with email. Here's 4 or 5 different emails that I have as kind of a key to start off with that. But then when I'm posting on LinkedIn, that leads to a lot of conversations on LinkedIn. Really, that's where I have most of my conversations, that they either come from that direction or from somebody listening to the...

Can you build a six to seven figure Soloist business doing the opposite of what “the experts” recommend? Consultant Kris Jennings has created exactly that by forging her own path:How her “tiny, tiny” email list delivered over $1 million in revenue (and provides a vehicle to nurture key referral relationships).How she thinks about and serves her list (hint: it’s exactly the opposite of what most every email marketer recommends).What she does with advice from experts and “gurus”.How she measures success—and how her metrics have changed as her business matures.The evolution of her risk-taking philosophy in business—and what elements must be present for her to say an unqualified “yes”.LINKSKris Jennings Website | LinkedInRochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramBIOWith nearly thirty years of experience, Kris Jennings’ work has helped more than a million people change. From large technology implementations to digital products for Type 2 diabetes, she designs ways to help people take small steps forward.She has run a consulting and advisory business since 2012 and her clients include Fortune 100 global organizations. She now primarily supports change leaders and project teams. Her first book will be released this fall (2024).She holds a bachelor's degree from The Medill School of Journalism at Northwestern University. Kris and her husband live in Minneapolis, Minnesota with their two delightfully curious, mischievous kittens. She dedicates time each year to bucket list adventure travel with their two young adult sons.BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLERESOURCES FOR SOLOISTSJoin the Soloist email list: helping thousands of Soloist Consultants smash through their revenue plateau.Soloist Events: in-person events for Soloists to gather and learn.The Soloist Women community: a place to connect with like-minded women (and join a channel dedicated to your revenue level).The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 - 00:11Kris Jennings: To me, it's not about selling something. It's about reaffirming the relationship that I have with those past clients, because they're gonna be the ones that are gonna refer me to other business. And I'm00:11 - 00:16: gonna be the 1 that's gonna refer me to other business. And I'm gonna be the 1 that's gonna refer me to other business. And I'm gonna be the 1 that's gonna refer me to other business.00:16 - 00:56Rochelle Moulton: Hello, hello. Welcome to the Soloist Life podcast where we're all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I'm Rochelle Moulton and today I'm here with consultant Chris Jennings, whose work has helped more than a million people change From large technology implementations to digital products for type 2 diabetes, she designs ways to help people take small steps forward. Chris has run a consulting and advisory business since 2012, and her clients include Fortune 100 global organizations. She now primarily supports change leaders and project teams and her first book will be released this fall. Chris, welcome.00:56 - 00:58Kris Jennings: Thanks, Rochelle, it's great to be here.00:59 - 01:31Rochelle Moulton: Well, we've had quite an exchange of ideas and conversation about growing a soloist business. In fact, you introduced me to earlier guest Heather Welpley a while back. But the initial spark was when you dropped just this very casual comment about your, and I quote, tiny, tiny email list generating over a million dollars in revenue for you so I'm kind of thinking we should start there but let's go back just a little bit so you started your firm in 2012. Tell us how that happened How did that01:31 - 02:10Kris Jennings: come about? So it's not the great story of like being excited and leaving the big organization to pursue my dream as a solo opener. It's actually quite the opposite. I was laid off. A very surprising layoff from an organization that had never done layoffs at the end of the recession, just coming out of that span from 2008 to 2012. So it was January of 2012 and got the layoff notice and within 2 weeks actually had a consulting gig. So it wasn't the route I was planning to take, but a friend nudged me towards trying it out.02:11 - 02:19Kris Jennings: And honestly that set me on the path to where I am today, which is 12 years later, having done some amazing projects with some amazing teams.02:20 - 02:27Rochelle Moulton: I love that turning lemons into lemonade. So how long did it take you to earn your first hundred thousand? Do you remember?02:28 - 02:44Kris Jennings: It was that first year. So I am 1 of those unusual people that my skill set is highly in demand and I have never had a break. So for 12 years, it's been go, go, go. And that's been financially rewarding.02:44 - 03:06Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. I'm hearing an undercurrent in there, which we'll get to. So you know I have to ask you more about your tiny, tiny list. I mean, it feels like there are lots of people in our space shouting that building a giant list is the way to go. But we know when you're in a high-end B2B consulting space, the metrics tend to look different. So, like, who's on your list?03:06 - 03:37Kris Jennings: I mean, how tiny is tiny? Tiny is under 100 people. I love that. Yeah, really, right? So stop and think about that. And I've been writing it for a year. So I've been diligently writing for about a year. So I was 11 years into my entrepreneurial journey before I really kind of did any kind of what I would say outreach or any kind of marketing. Literally, my business has been 100% referral based. So I've always gone from, you know, 1, if you will, friend to another, people who are behind the scenes saying, okay, we have the,03:37 - 04:12Kris Jennings: we're doing the same thing you guys did. Can you please recommend somebody? And that's how I've, I've really pieced together a magical career over the last 12 years as a solopreneur. So I started writing the newsletter every week because I'm a writer at heart. My background and my degree is in journalism and I love telling stories and I have ghostwritten for executives and it's still a big part of what I do in my work in change. But it was really about me and writing for me. And so the newsletter has become this thing of like, I04:12 - 04:47Kris Jennings: just really share it within the close circle of people who've worked with me and family and friends who are, who know I'm very passionate about change and it is a very safe space for me and actually all of us on the list to collaborate. So it's not the traditional email newsletter. It's the, hey, we're going to try and experiment this month. We're going to do some change experiments. I do whatever I want because I know that the people on the list are reading it. And I just looked at the open rate and prep for this. So04:47 - 04:52Kris Jennings: my open rate is hovers between 70 and 80%. This week it was 82%.04:52 - 05:09Rochelle Moulton: So anybody listening to that just had pangs of jealousy at that open rate. That's unusually high. But I also think the way you described it is really interesting. It feels like a collaborative space versus a one-way speaking space. Yeah. I mean, I think 105:09 - 05:43Kris Jennings: of the things that kind of who I am is like, let me create something and play with it and see what happens. So with the list, it's like, I think the mainstream thinking on it is build your list, build your list, because then you're gonna sell something to everybody who's on your list. Mine's the opposite. I've already sold, as you said, I've already sold a million dollars worth of services to the people on that list. So to me, it's not about selling something, it's about reaffirming the relationship that I have with those past clients, because they're05:43 - 06:09Kris Jennings: going to be the ones that are going to refer me to other business. But just more so from this like, yeah, it doesn't have to be about monetizing the list. It can actually be the reverse, right? I've already done that. And now here's this place where we get to cultivate and strengthen the relationship that we've built through doing hard projects together. Well, and I like the spirit of generosity that kind of weaves through the06:09 - 06:27Rochelle Moulton: way you describe that, right? Like, I've helped you, you've helped me with the financial exchange, and let's continue to be able to grow together. You know, something that you said, and I was thinking about it, conversation we had 1 time about your book. So did you start writing for the list at the same time you started writing06:27 - 07:01Kris Jennings: your book? Like, did 1 make you do the other? Or how were they connected, or if at all? I started doing the newsletter first and it was probably 6 months in that I formally like started the book manuscript. There's definitely overlap and I think anybody who hasn't done a lot of, you know, marketing for themselves and they're in their solopreneur business, it's like, you know, a newsletter is a great place to get your thoughts on paper and say practice or have some content for something that you might do later, such as a book. So for me,07:01 - 07:20Kris Jennings: it's been also a way to get feedback, right? So I know the points that I've made in the newsletter and I know those content areas where it's like, wow, I had great feedback, you know, that prompted 2 or 3 comments, you know, back. And that's allowed me to kind of like, hey, I'm going to go deeper on that content in the book.07:21 - 07:35Rochelle Moulton: I love this. It's just counterintuitive. So what do you tell yourself when you get advice or you read advice from, you know, experts to do some kind of marketing gymnastics to grow your lists? Like what goes through your head?07:35 - 08:07Kris Jennings: I mean, 1 thing I've learned as a solopreneur is like, it's really hard not to do comparisonitis. It's really hard to say follow people and think, oh, I wanna learn from them, right? I wanna mimic what they're doing. But it is actually a moment of like, I'm going to learn what they're doing, and then I'm going to apply it to myself. I'm going to decide whether or not it works for me. Does this feel like it's right for who I am, my voice, my business, where I'm at and how I wanna grow my business, the types08:07 - 08:38Kris Jennings: of work I wanna do, who I wanna call in? There's a lot of shoulds out there in marketing and I definitely feel like you've gotta really have some blinders on in terms of learning, but then actually applying it to yourself and being willing to say, you know what? I like that idea, but it doesn't work quite right for me. And the only way to do that is to play. So I've given myself a lot of permission to fail, to try things and to not expect any wild success, but just to see what am I going to08:38 - 08:39Kris Jennings: learn from it.08:39 - 09:10Rochelle Moulton: I think we've all interacted with people who are doing whatever their latest guru has advised them to do. And, okay, this time I'm going to do this and it doesn't work, or this time I'm going to do that and it doesn't work. Not necessarily because it was a bad tactic, but because it didn't apply, or the person didn't take the time to figure out how to do what you said, which is adjust it for where you're going, for your style. And I think we can push ourselves out of our comfort zones. I think that's a good09:10 - 09:46Rochelle Moulton: thing. But we also want to take a decent bet, right? Something that we think is scary, but feels like something we would want. Like the outcome is something we would want and then we'll try it. But yeah, it is, it's a process. So I'm just curious, do you see or feel a downside with a small list? I mean, just as an example, it would be challenging to say, pivot from these huge consulting projects to something more retail, like $5, 000 workshops. So do you ever think about the size of the list and where you want to09:46 - 09:47Rochelle Moulton: take that in the future?09:47 - 10:22Kris Jennings: In the last couple of years, I think things have changed. I think the consumers, and I say consumers, meaning we're all consumers, right, of other people's content and purchasers of products, et cetera, I think we're more sophisticated and we're perhaps a little more cynical about the stuff that we get, including from email lists. So there's a variety of ways that we think about purchases, and that means anything from people seeing me on LinkedIn, people hearing me on this podcast, people picking up my book, people seeing it on Amazon, people getting a referral from it, somebody giving10:22 - 10:50Kris Jennings: my book to someone else. So there's a variety of ways that I think marketing can work. And I don't necessarily think that the lists as they once were used to be the end all be all. I think there's so much fragmentation and just in terms of marketing and what's being thrown at any of us at any given time, that it's like you can't rely on just 1. You've got to really think about the whole system and how you're getting your message out to your audience.10:50 - 11:20Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, well plus I also think your book, which we haven't talked about, is the kind of book where you don't have to sell a gazillion copies. You have the kind of book just like your list where you could sell 10 copies if they were to the right people, right? And I'm assuming your book is going to be pretty highly focused and targeted to your ideal audience. And so I just love the conventional wisdom would say, I'm going to sell a thousand copies in the first 2 days, and I've got to get to 10, 000 copies. And11:20 - 11:34Rochelle Moulton: when you have a business model like yours, that's not the metric that matters. I mean, it feels good. It would be nice to be on the New York Times bestseller list, but it isn't necessary to be able to serve the purpose that you wrote the book for.11:35 - 12:09Kris Jennings: Yeah, I think that's very, that's very astute in terms of like, why am I writing the book? And honestly, it was quite challenging in terms of working with the editor team that I did, because it was not really something they'd really ever considered, right? That I would have a very small audience, a very niche audience from my book. And that even how I would get it into the hands of the people who would use it would be extremely targeted in thinking about the intermediaries that are likely to be the repeat, if you will, distributors of my12:09 - 12:34Kris Jennings: books. So in my world, that looks like project managers, that looks like PMO offices, project management offices, sorry for the lingo, the jargon, or system implementers, right? Those people who are regularly doing large-scale projects and might not have a skillset like mine within a given project or within a given client team. So I've really strategically thought about how am I12:34 - 13:08Rochelle Moulton: going to partner with those folks to make sure that they have my book and that it becomes this business card that they're handing out on my behalf for at least several more years, at least until I write the next 1. Well, you bring up a great point, and I've seen this with some clients where their book was so targeted to a niche, and literally they could repay all of the time and money that they spent on their book with 1 single client, right, that came from that book. And a lot of editors, like they don't get13:08 - 13:29Rochelle Moulton: that. And in fact, they can try to edit your book for a larger market. And they just like, they can't help themselves because that's what they're used to. That's what everybody wants is to have a bigger market. So thank you for sharing that. It's something you really have to watch out for and it helps to find an editor who totally gets it. But sometimes it takes a round or 2. Yeah, and13:29 - 13:36Kris Jennings: it's definitely 1 of the reasons I self-published to be able to have that ultimate control over that creativity. Yeah.13:36 - 13:55Rochelle Moulton: So the theme I hear loud and clear from you, whenever we've chatted, is to forge your own path. So how do you measure your success? Are you using monthly, quarterly, annual metrics? What's your process to assess your progress with your business in your life?13:56 - 14:31Kris Jennings: Oh that's a great question. For me, if I had had answered that 12 years ago, it probably would be how do my financials look, right? And, you know, what do I have in the queue for the next quarter? And actually, most of my work goes much longer than that. So most of my projects are, you know, 12 to 18 months. So my time cycles, you know, are very, very, very long. And now I'm really thinking differently about what time of year is it? We're coming up on summer in Minnesota. Right. And So for me, I think,14:31 - 15:06Kris Jennings: wow, I want to make sure I have the least amount of stuff on my plate right now so that I can enjoy the short summer that we have here and I get to swim outside and I get to go to breakfast with my 22 year old, my youngest son who will be home from college for the summer. So for me, it's much more measures of life satisfaction and just where does the business fit into my life within a year? And giving myself a lot more flexibility with, you know, and if you will, ups and downs...

You’ve got a bookkeeper, a CPA, maybe even a CFO/strategic financial resource for your business—when and where does personal financial planning fit in? Advice-only financial planner and author Sean Mullaney walks us through financial planning for Soloists:The types of financial advisors Soloists are likely to encounter—how they work and are compensated (and why that matters).The signs that tell Soloists you’ll likely get value from engaging a personal financial advisor.How to get started and identify potential planners that will meet your needs (and why geography just doesn’t matter anymore).One key question to ask any financial advisor candidate to assess whether they might be a fit.Why a Solo 401(k) often beats a SEP IRA for tax-advantaged retirement savings.LINKSSean Mullaney Blog | Book | LinkedIn | YouTube | TwitterRochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramBIOSean Mullaney is an advice-only financial planner and the President of Mullaney Financial & Tax, Inc. Through Mullaney Financial & Tax, Sean provides advice-only financial planning for a flat fee. Sean writes the Plutus Award winning blog FITaxGuy.com on the intersection of tax and financial independence. He also has a personal finance YouTube channel and wrote Solo 401(k): The Solopreneur’s Retirement Account. DISCLAIMERThis discussion is intended to be for general educational purposes and is not tax, legal, or investment advice for any individual. Rochelle and The Soloist Life podcast do not endorse Sean Mullaney, Mullaney Financial & Tax, Inc. and their services.BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLERESOURCES FOR SOLOISTSJoin the Soloist email list: helping thousands of Soloist Consultants smash through their revenue plateau.Soloist Events: in-person events for Soloists to gather and learn.The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 - 00:23Sean Mullaney: I think most of the value is just having that plan in place. Because what happens is people get confused by their finances. Every time something new happens in their life financially, oh, our profits doubled. Oh, there's this new thing they're talking about on TV or the internet, whatever it is, it creates questions. And when we don't have a plan in place, it means we have to go down rabbit holes. We have anxiety, confusion.00:30 - 01:10Rochelle Moulton: Hello, hello. Welcome to the Soloist Life podcast, where we're all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I'm Rochelle Moulton, and today I'm here with Sean Mullaney, who is an advice-only financial planner and the president of Mullaney Financial and Tax, Inc. Through Mullaney Financial and Tax, Sean provides advice-only financial planning for a flat fee. He writes the Plutus Award-winning blog, FITaxGuide.com, on the intersection of Tax and Financial Independence. He also has a personal finance YouTube channel and wrote Solo 401k, the Solopreneur's retirement account. Sean, welcome.01:10 - 01:14Sean Mullaney: Sean O'Toole Rochelle, thanks so much for having me. Looking forward to the conversation.01:14 - 01:48Rochelle Moulton: Rochelle Penney Oh, me too. So I was talking to friend of the show, Erica Goodie, when I mentioned that I really wanted to have a financial advisor guest who wasn't hawking investments and who also believed in simplicity in building wealth. And she immediately suggested we talk. And when I went to, I think it was 1 of your websites, and I saw that The Simple Path to Wealth by J.L. Collins was your favorite money book, too. I knew we had to have you on the show. And then when you asked me to add a disclaimer that I01:48 - 02:23Rochelle Moulton: wasn't endorsing you or your services, which by the way will be in the show notes, I was over the moon certain you were the right person to speak to the subject of financial planning for Solowes. So Let's start by taking a moment to categorize the different kinds of help that soloists can get with our personal financial life. Just by way of background, on the show before, we've talked about having a bookkeeper, a CPA to do your taxes, and even a CFO slash strategic financial resource for your business. And we've kind of vaguely mentioned having a personal02:23 - 02:34Rochelle Moulton: financial advisor, but we haven't described those options. So will you walk us through the types of personal financial advisors a typical soloist might encounter?02:35 - 03:10Sean Mullaney: Yeah, absolutely Rochelle. So there are many different professionals out there and there are many different names for these professionals. I'm going to start off with 2 big archetypes, right? 1 would be a financial coach and 1 would be a financial planner. Not everybody's going to look at the world that way, but that's sort of how I look at the world to begin with, right? So what's a financial coach? A financial coach is a person who coaches people in their personal finances, does not provide investment advice, right? So they tend to focus on things like budgeting and03:10 - 03:43Sean Mullaney: cashflow and those sorts of things. And that could be very important when you're a soloist and you have uneven income and revenue in your business, right? Or you may be a soloist who's doing great in the business but isn't able to control the expense side of your life, right? A financial coach could be a great alternative there, right? So those are 2 use cases for a financial coach. Now, I think what you're mostly getting at Rochelle is more the financial planner or financial advisor world, right? Yes. And that's where the big legal thing that we're introducing03:43 - 04:25Sean Mullaney: there is investment advice. So what that means is advisors, in order to professionally render investment advice, hey, so and so should buy ABC mutual fund. To do that professionally, you need to be licensed with either the SEC, the Securities and Exchange Commission, or 1 or more of the US states. There you get into, well, we have people who call themselves financial advisors, people who call themselves financial planners. Usually that's somebody who, through their firm or their selves individually are licensed to provide investment advice. But investment advice is not the only piece of financial planning. There's plenty04:25 - 05:05Sean Mullaney: more that goes on with personal financial planning than just the investment advice. Within this category, financial planners, financial advisors, there's all sorts of different types of advisors out in the world. There's so many now at this point. We could think about people who work for broker dealers who tend to be more selling that broker dealer's particular investments. They tend to be very investment focused and there tends to be a reward for them to push their particular financial institution's product. There are going to be some people even in this realm who might be selling insurance, right? That's05:05 - 05:07Sean Mullaney: a whole other conversation.05:08 - 05:08Rochelle Moulton: You05:08 - 05:47Sean Mullaney: know, that model came in for a lot of criticism. And so what the industry developed over time is what's referred to as the assets under management model, where you're not necessarily pushing 1 type of investment. What you're doing is you're saying, okay, a client, you come to me and you take your investible assets and invest them through my firm. All right. And I will charge you a assets under management fee. So the fee for the financial planning is generally defined as a percentage, might be every quarter, every year, some percentage of the assets that that advisor05:47 - 06:22Sean Mullaney: is managing for the client. And that model has now come in for a lot of criticism. And look, of course I'm a biased source because I don't sell products. I don't have assets under management, but I'll just give you my perspective. I'm not too fond of that because that increases our expenses and it has this drawback of you're paying these fees that if you do well in your portfolio, they actually increase, right? Because your portfolio goes up and the fees increase. And I also think it overweights investments in terms of, well, wait a minute, investments are06:22 - 06:58Sean Mullaney: 1 component of our financial life. Why are we paying based on that 1 component of our investment life, right? So I could go on and on. I think there's some real drawbacks to that assets under management model. What's developed more recently, although this has existed in a small way for a long time, but it's becoming more of a sort of force out in the world, is what's starting to be referred to as advice-only financial planning. And the idea there is that the advisor is only offering advice. So they're not offering assets under management. You can't invest06:58 - 07:24Sean Mullaney: through this person, but they will, this person, their firm will provide you investment advice and other advice around your own personal finances. And I think in today's era, that makes a lot of sense. Like forget me and my business for a second, but think about you Rochelle right now. Let's say you have a great aunt or great uncle out there you don't even know about and they pass away and they leave you Rochelle $100, 000.07:25 - 07:27Rochelle Moulton: Oh bless, on to him.07:27 - 08:02Sean Mullaney: Yeah, there you go. Right? So that's a good outcome for you. Well, if this was the 1980s or 1990s, what were you going to do with that money other than put it in a bank account? I'm not here to say you're not a smart woman, but most Americans in that situation probably would have needed some professional advice and couldn't just pick up their phone and invest that money, right? Today, Rochelle, you could pick up your phone and in 10 minutes have that money invested in a plethora of well diversified, low cost, mutual funds, ETFs, whatever you08:02 - 08:35Sean Mullaney: want to your heart's content, and you could pick the platform, you can pick the investments with your phone in 10 minutes. In that world, do we really need an assets under management model, right? Mm-hmm. So that's why I think the advice only model is so attractive, at least to people like me. I say, well, what's really needed is advice and knowledge. The investing platform piece of it. Well, most of us are addicted to these phones anyway, you know, and that's a whole other conversation. But if we're already addicted to this thing, we might as well use08:35 - 08:36Sean Mullaney: it to set up our investments.08:37 - 09:13Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting to me when you think about how we look at these kinds of decisions. And I think sometimes we just do a knee jerk because, oh, we've always used insert name or my parents used so and so, so I do that. And I think stepping back and thinking about how you're getting your advice is really important. And just for myself as an individual, I want someone who is going to give me non-biased advice. I mean, I guess you could argue we're all biased on some level, but I don't want somebody to09:13 - 09:37Rochelle Moulton: push product on me. And even when you have someone who's highly ethical, if the system is designed in a different way. So, you know, what I'm hearing is it's important to know what it is that you're buying when you're looking at these financial advisors, especially if you're interviewing a few, because if you've never had 1 before, or you're thinking of making a switch, chances are you're going through some kind of a selection process.09:38 - 10:13Sean Mullaney: Yeah, Rochelle, you know, it's interesting. Look, I'm a career changer, so I'm biased in this perspective. But I do think that the financial planning, financial advice industry makes things relatively opaque on the client end. And I think that is, that's a drawback. If you're a potential client of a financial planner, that's a real drawback. However, we now live in a world, right? So if this was 20 years ago, and Rochelle, you're looking for a financial planner in Palm Springs, California, you gotta get in your car and you gotta go interview 5 different people in 5 different10:13 - 10:45Sean Mullaney: offices. And oh, by the way, that's in Palm Springs. Imagine if you're in Century City, Los Angeles, right? You got to deal with LA traffic to do that, right? How horrible is that? Well, today, Rochelle, you can boot up your computer and most financial planners will have some sort of an intake form and some sort of ability to get 15 minute, 30 minute introductory meetings scheduled. So, you can, from the comfort of your own home, with your computer, interview 5 different financial planners. They don't have to be in Palm Springs. They can, in theory, be almost10:45 - 11:18Sean Mullaney: anywhere in the country. And so in a sense, yes, the industry is opaque, but thank goodness for computers and Google meetings and Zoom and whatever in terms of, hey, I can actually get some look and feel. And I get that the person isn't in your office, you're not in the same breathing space with them. But I like to joke, you know, I'm not a dentist. I don't need your molars in my office to render you financial advice, right? So it is nice that you can meet with 5 of these people without getting in your car and11:18 - 11:47Sean Mullaney: You ask them a bunch of questions and you understand what the fees are you learn how you fit in with the person, right? I like to say there's no perfect financial planner for anyone out there But there are plenty of good financial planners out there for most folks. And so, you know, you have to make this judgment based on a whole host of things, fees, what are you actually getting, but also what's the connection with the person, right? How do you sort of connect with that person? I think that's a big thing to consider as you're11:47 - 11:49Sean Mullaney: interviewing potential financial planners.11:49 - 12:15Rochelle Moulton: Absolutely. No matter what, you cannot ignore the vibe that you get from the person and whether you're going to be able to work together. But so what are some of the signs that tell soloists that they get value from engaging the right personal financial advisor because lots of people don't have 1. When should they start thinking about, actually I use the word should, when might it make sense to start thinking about engaging a personal financial advisor?12:15 - 12:43Sean Mullaney: Yeah, that's a great question Rochelle, and it does vary person to person. I'll say a few things on that. There's no like, this is exactly the time in your life you need a financial planner. I will say most folks coming out of college probably don't need a financial planner at that point, right? They need some blocking and tackling. I feel like in today's world, you can go to sources, podcasts, YouTube, internet, books, like The Simple Path to Wealth by J.L. Collins, for example.12:43 - 12:49Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, I was gonna say, that's the first thing I would hand to a college graduate. That is my go-to gift for college graduates.12:49 - 13:21Sean Mullaney: Yeah, there you go, right? You probably are at a point there where, hey, you know what? You don't really need to bring in a professional, but you also don't want to get to the point where you are a soloist, your business has done well, and now you have the earnings from that business all over the place invested in a hodgepodge of different things that you never had any intention around. In addition to that, it's time to be thinking about financial planning, I think include, but are not limited to, you get married, you have kids, that can13:21 - 13:56Sean Mullaney: be a big 1. Your business or your W-2 work, if you're not a soloist, starts to be rather profitable and you're at a place where you can invest a substantial amount beyond some basic investing, those are sort of times where, hey, you know what? Working with a financial planner now might make some sense. Also, nearing retirement can also make sense to work with a financial planner. I think what you're looking to avoid is to get it at a position where either the wealth went out the door and you just don't know where it even went to,13:56 - 14:22Sean Mullaney: or you have the wealth but it's in 10 different brokerages or it's sitting in cash or all these things where we didn't have a plan in place and now we're not in as good a place as we could have been because we didn't have a plan in place. So I almost defined it in the negative. You wanna avoid being that person where you made a bunch of money in your business ventures, but you don't have much of it left over. It's like, what happened there, right? You didn't have a plan to invest it and to save14:22 - 14:28Sean Mullaney: it. You don't wanna be that person who looks back and says, boy, if I...

None of us are immune to transitions—it’s just that they seem start piling up at “mid-life”. Olympic gold medalist and performance coach Joe Jacobi shares his story and how you too can navigate resistance and uncertainty to pursue purpose, performance and impact:What working as part of a two-person boat teaches you about collaboration (and it’s probably not what you think).Why sometimes winning comes down to making fewer mistakes than your peers—and correcting them more quickly.How focusing on the unique ways your experiences and expertise can help others will magnify your impact.Learning to appreciate where you are “in the river” and navigate toward what you value most.When seeking alliances as a Soloist can provide more opportunities for fruitful collaboration.LINKSJoe Jacobi Linktr.eeRochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramBIOJoe Jacobi is an Olympic Gold Medalist, Performance Coach, Transition Expert and Author who collaborates with high performance leaders to unlock purpose, achieve peak performance, and create a lasting impact.Joe practices and refines these core principles and strategies in his own life and pursuits at his Pyrenees mountains home beside the 1992 Olympic Canoeing venue in La Seu d’Urgell in the Spanish state of Catalunya - the same canoeing venue where he and his canoeing partner, Scott Strausbaugh, won America’s first-ever Olympic Gold Medal in the sport of Whitewater Canoe Slalom at the 1992 Olympic Games.In 2022, Joe published his first book, Slalom: 6 River Classes About How To Confront Obstacles, Advance Amid Uncertainty, & Bring Focus To What Matters Most - Joe's reflections, experiences, relationships, and strategies from more than 40 years on the river transferred to navigating your river of the life.Today, he writes and publishes Thinking In Waves, short and focused weekly essays that transfer his experiences and lessons from surfing off-shore ocean waves on a surfski kayak to an innovative model for clear thinking, better choices, and increased value alignment.BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLERESOURCES FOR SOLOISTSJoin the Soloist email list: helping thousands of Soloist Consultants smash through their revenue plateau.Soloist Events: in-person events for Soloists to gather and learn.The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 - 00:31Joe Jacobi: Energy can travel in different directions and the more you become aware of it and you put yourself to manage Not just the expenditure of it, but the replenishment of it as well You change the game and you really start to think less about time and how you really set yourself up to have the capacity to do what you want to do when you want to do it. And don't feel pressure rushed to spend energy that you don't intend to spend or don't want to spend.00:36 - 01:21Rochelle Moulton: Hello, hello. Welcome to the Soloist Life podcast, where we're all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I'm Rochelle Moulton. And today I'm here with my pal, Olympic gold medalist, performance coach, transition expert, author, and all around good guy, Joe Jacoby. High performance leaders seek his collaboration in navigating resistance and uncertainty in their pursuit of purpose, performance, and impact. Joe practices and refines these core principles and strategies in his own life and pursuits at his Pirine Mountains home besides the 1992 Olympic canoeing venue in the Spanish state of Catalonia, the same canoeing venue where he01:21 - 02:07Rochelle Moulton: and his canoeing partner Scott Strasbaugh won America's first ever Olympic gold medal in whitewater canoe slalom at the 1992 Olympic Games. In 2022, Joe published his first book, Slalom, 6 River Classes, about how to confront obstacles, advance amid uncertainty, and bring focus to what matters most. Today, he writes and publishes, Thinking in Waves, short, focused weekly essays that transfer his lessons from surfing offshore ocean waves on a surf ski kayak to an innovative model for clear thinking, better choices, and increased value alignment. Joe, welcome.02:08 - 02:13Joe Jacobi: Bon dia, Rochelle. It's great to be here talking with you, my friend.02:13 - 02:43Rochelle Moulton: Well, Joe, I have so enjoyed watching your journey in coaching and especially how you've embraced life as an American in Spain. It's like whenever we talk or even just watching 1 of your videos, I can feel your happiness, your contentment. It's infectious in a very warm, kind way. I mean, I just have no doubt that that's 1 of your personal keys to success. And there's so much we can talk about today, so let's just get right to it, okay?02:43 - 02:50Joe Jacobi: See, yes, yes, see. See, see. You listen to me. I have to make the... We're speaking English today, not Catalan.02:50 - 03:12Rochelle Moulton: We can speak whatever we like today. So I feel like we need to start with your Olympic story for those that haven't heard it. So you won your gold medal in a two-man canoe doing slalom through white water, right? Yes. So talk about that experience and what that whole process taught you about focus and overcoming obstacles.03:13 - 03:44Joe Jacobi: You know, Rochelle, I think what the first thing that comes up for me about the sport experience is just how lucky I am to have I got hooked into a sport that truly is like a sport for life. This is still a sport I get to do today and I enjoy doing today, not in the same way, the same level. But I've met so many Olympians that when they finish their sport, they are just so done with it, they're over it, they just wanna get away from it. And I feel very lucky to be in a03:44 - 04:21Joe Jacobi: sport that is out in nature that involves aligning with the water. I guess you could just say it just changed my perspective on the way that I see building relationships with nature. The sport itself, I was really lucky. I grew up in the Washington DC area on the Potomac River. I don't think there are many Americans that would say it's lucky to be raised in the Washington DC these days. But it is lucky if you're an outdoor enthusiast. As far as the best Whitewater rivers in the United States tend to be in rural mountainous areas, but04:21 - 04:57Joe Jacobi: Washington DC is an exception. There's world-class whitewater just outside of the inner city and it's a beautiful place to paddle. When you're on the Potomac River you feel a million miles away from a big city and it was the perfect place to grow up and I was lucky to grow up with a lot of world champions world medalists and the legendary sport of the coach that they welcomed me into their community when I was 12 years old and by age 14, these amazing world-class paddlers, they were just like regular normal people that I was going to04:57 - 04:59Joe Jacobi: paddle with every day. Wow,05:00 - 05:19Rochelle Moulton: That's a very different experience than people like me who are not Olympians think of as the Olympic experience. You just think of it as this total immersion, work, work, work, work, work, and then when you hit the gold medal, that's it, you're done. Like gymnastics would be maybe an example of something like that.05:19 - 06:01Joe Jacobi: Yeah, I went to high school in Potomac, Maryland, and I had a fellow classmate, my graduating class who was Olympic gold medalist in the 200 meter breaststroke, Mike Bererman. And I talked with Mike just after the 1992 Olympics and the next Olympic games were in the United States in Atlanta in 1996. I just figured what gold medalist at 22 years old in the sport of swimming wouldn't go for it again. And he just kind of told me this story about up and down the black line, and there was no way he was doing that for 406:01 - 06:38Joe Jacobi: more years. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I think finding that joy in the process is really important. For sure, there are people in gymnastics and swimming who find joy in the process, but I think there are also sports that I see today. I mean, it just hits me so quickly. Like when I see skiing or snowboarding or skateboarding or canoeing as an Olympic sport, I'm like, oh yeah, of course these people are going to continue. These are really fun sports that they feel great. You embrace your sense of your relationship with gravity and friction. And I think that's06:38 - 07:03Joe Jacobi: exciting. I think that it brings a lot of inner challenge. I do think that's special about canoeing, Rochelle, is that the sport has a person versus person effect, of course, like any sport, but there's also like person against nature and person against themselves. And I think when you combine those 3 levels of competition, you know, against 1 another, against yourself and with nature, it's07:03 - 07:14Rochelle Moulton: an awesome combination. Well, and if you're in a team sport, I don't know if you add that as another dimension, but I feel like it certainly adds a level of complexity to it.07:14 - 07:53Joe Jacobi: It's a great point and definitely worth digging into because I think in a canoe or a kayak, I think a lot of people imagine kind of strapping themselves into a boat and the boat is like an extension of yourself and it's like you and the water and you're trying to find this alignment and when you're with another person that throws in some very special dynamics of person to person communication as specifically nonverbal communication. So in the doubles canoe, the way Scott and I would work together, we would talk about a plan for navigating the river. But07:53 - 08:28Joe Jacobi: once it was time to paddle, I was in the back of the boat, Scott was in the front of the boat. So if you see 2 people in Whitewater Devil's Canoe speaking to each other, it's only because they've made mistakes and they're just trying to come up with a last-ditch effort to fix them. What really happens when things are going well is my partner Scott, he's reading the water and I in the back of the boat, I'm reading Scott. Like all these things that Scott is doing with his back, his shoulders, the way he's twisting his08:28 - 09:02Joe Jacobi: hand position on the paddle, all of it is sending signals to me about what he's trying to do with the boat. So I'm reading those signals that he's doing with the paddling, and then we work together based on that to paddle the best we can together. It wasn't really that we, I always tell people that we paddled so well together, it wasn't like we were the biggest, fastest, strongest. What we did better on the day of the Olympic Games was that we corrected mistakes better than the rest of the field, and we anticipated mistakes before they09:02 - 09:35Joe Jacobi: happened better than the rest of the field. It's like an unsexy way to tell you that's how we won the Olympics, but it changed my opinion about how two-person collaborations can achieve excellence in the world, that it's not by doing everything perfect. You can spend a lot of time on reducing mistakes, reducing resistance, reducing the jump that gets in the way. And not only can you have a good day, but you might have a day that lands you on the top step of the Olympic podium.09:36 - 10:06Rochelle Moulton: Wow. I mean, I've never thought about it that way, probably because I'm not a canoeist, but I'm picturing you sitting behind Scott and you're hyper focused on his body movements, right? And you're reacting to that. Okay, so I'm just curious. So if you popped Scott out and you put somebody else who was a world-class athlete as well in this sport, how would that change? I mean, you're still watching their body movement, but what of the partnership changes when the person changes?10:06 - 10:41Joe Jacobi: Well, it's a good question. You know, before we do that, I want to say something about my relationship with Scott before we pop someone else in the boat, which I think is important. I love to tell people this story that Scott and I were really different, especially at the time we started piling together. I mean, Scott was 24 and I was 17. He had graduated college. I hadn't graduated high school. He was introverted, analytical. I was extroverted and like super positive. Like we were really different. I like to tell people not 180 degrees difference, but 179.10:41 - 11:22Joe Jacobi: And I truly believe this, Rochelle, if we had been 175 degrees different, I don't think we would have won the Olympic Games. I think it's that diversity, those differences, and the ability to work through friction and differences and bring that together to create something special. It wasn't easy. It was actually very difficult at times, but I think that was an important part of it. And so that influenced my thoughts about leadership, my thoughts about teams. So when you talk about taking Scott out of the boat and putting someone else in, really what I'm thinking about is11:23 - 12:03Joe Jacobi: what can I do to compliment that other person in the boat that it's like in basketball, I'm throwing an alley-oop pass and just slam dunks are like the easiest baskets in the world? And I would want to give my doubles canoe partner like lots of slam dunks basically. And so there's, it's just a lot of setting themselves up, but it's a team philosophy and embracing what my roles and responsibilities are in the back of the boat to really make the job of the person in front of me shine through and really leverage their strengths and their12:03 - 12:08Joe Jacobi: best skills and perspectives to bring excellence towards what we're trying to do together.12:08 - 12:28Rochelle Moulton: I love that. I could feel the synergy in that as you were describing it. Now, Joe, do I remember correctly, did you tell me a story about when you came back from the gold medal, when you first came back to the US? I think you were gonna do some motivational speaking and you got some advice on this.12:29 - 13:03Joe Jacobi: Yeah, So this is cool. I mean, it's actually the, it's also the last story in the book of Solemn, but I think it is so helpful to soloists and thinking about how we present ourselves. So we were on the bus going to the closing ceremonies in Barcelona. And I mean, obviously, it felt good. We went to the Olympics, couldn't ask for any more than what we did. We won a gold medal. And the head coach of the Olympic team, Bill Endicott, turned to me and he said, So you're going back to the United States the day13:03 - 13:32Joe Jacobi: after tomorrow as a gold medalist. What are you going to do? What do you got planned? And I said, well, I'd love to do some motivational speaking. I've got a couple of things lined up already, and it would be a privilege and an honor to tell the story of our sport. And Bill said, that would be great. He goes, would you like some advice? As I coached Norm Bellingham to a gold medal 4 years earlier, I'll tell you what I told Norm. And I said, that would be great. And Bill said, listen, when you get back,13:32 - 14:04Joe Jacobi: you can stand on a stage with your Team USA uniform with a gold medal around your neck, and you could be a terrible speaker. You could just say blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And for a few weeks, people will go, Oh my gosh, that's so cool. You won the Olympic games. But he says it's human nature after that where people are going to say, Joe, that's great that you won a gold medal in the Olympic games, but how does that help me? Like how does your success help me? And Bill paused and he said, if you14:04 - 14:39Joe Jacobi: can answer that question, you'll tell the story as long as you want. And so Rochelle, I still tell this, I'm still telling the story today, not because like I love telling the story or I like talking about myself. But for literally 32 years now, I've been thinking of just the most creative ways to get people to care, why rivers and canoes and paddles and waves and currents, why you should care about them and how they will make your life better if you do care about them. And I've gotten pretty good at that after doing it for14:39 - 14:59Joe Jacobi: that long. And it's not so much that I'm doing the motivational speaking so much, but in my coaching and in podcast guesting like this or in my writing, it's such a great opportunity just to help people think about how they think in a very visual and a very feeling kind of way.14:59 - 15:12Rochelle Moulton: Hear, hear. It's mission status really. What we're talking about is a sense of mission about the river. And I actually got goosebumps when I heard you describe how you think about the river. So it's working.15:13 - 15:47Joe Jacobi: We're all navigating. That's the thing, Isley. I mean, that's even the idea behind Solem and thinking in waves is that it puts people in a sense of I think what's helpful about the river metaphor is that it really brings to mind very quickly what are you in control of, What are you not in control of? And how are we gonna manage the gap in between that? And that's it. And by the way, you're not gonna change the river. The river is going to do what the river is going to do. And whether you stop or take15:47 - 16:25Joe Jacobi: a break or get out or portage a rapid, the river doesn't care. The river is going to keep moving. But the river represents a tremendous amount of energy. And when you figure out how to harness that energy and to really create a narrative around it that works for you, you really start to see the path through these complicated rapids so much more clearly. And that's where something, a very unique story, a very unique adventure unfolds. It's in the middle

A quick Amazon search shows over 50,000 productivity titles—probably because as a society, we are obsessed with being productive. But what does productivity look like for Soloists?My theory—and I’m curious for your experience—is that many Soloists approach productivity a bit differently:My own (positive) experience with the classic Getting Things Done—and what seemed missing for Soloists (hint: joy + impact).What happens when you lighten your cognitive load in organizing your work and life.How some contemporary productivity books, especially Slow Productivity (Cal Newport) and 4,000 Weeks (Oliver Burkeman) are addressing a non-hustle and deeply satisfying way to work.Why slow is often better than fast and less can be more.The role of hitting your “enough” goal consistently in re-thinking how you want to work.LINKSGetting Things DoneSlow Productivity4,000 WeeksEssentialismRochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLERESOURCES FOR SOLOISTSJoin the Soloist email list: helping thousands of Soloist Consultants smash through their revenue plateau.Soloist Events: in-person events for Soloists to gather and learn.The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 - 00:50Rochelle Moulton: Do fewer things at a reasonable pace with high quality. Slow it down so what we do matters more. Concentrate and obsess over quality. Hello, hello. Welcome to The Soloist Life, where we're all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I'm Rochelle Moulton, and today I want to talk to you about productivity. I feel like there is a third rail here when we talk about soloists and productivity, because there is a whole school of thought that many of us have internalized, that productivity is about going 90 miles an hour and accomplishing an endless to-do list versus00:50 - 01:29Rochelle Moulton: productivity being about carefully choosing what you want to pay attention to so you can optimize your results. Optimize not maximize. So I love a good productivity book, you know, as much as the next consultant. And finally, just a few months ago, I read what many people consider the Bible, David Allen's Getting Things Done. I think I avoided reading it sooner, in part because it was old. I mean, even the updated version is almost 10 years old now, and technology has changed a lot. But I finally figured I'd give it a try. And let me tell you,01:29 - 02:05Rochelle Moulton: lots of it still applies even now. It did, however, feel more focused on a corporate executive type with an office and a staff, but nonetheless, I got plenty of useful advice. The main thing that hit me, maybe you could relate, was the cognitive load I was carrying from keeping too many open loops in my head. And the book helped me realize that I needed to not just get my projects all down in 1 place, and by the way, a project in getting things done land is anything with more than 2 steps. Okay? But it also needed02:05 - 02:37Rochelle Moulton: to identify at least 1 next action step for every project. So having both would give me a clear picture of what I wanted to get done. So I spent a few days vomiting everything in my head onto a master projects list for work, but also for my life because, you know, hey, we all have to manage both, right? And then it took a few more days because rando stuff would occur to me in the middle of doing something else, until finally I felt like I had a complete list of all of my projects. I had about02:37 - 03:16Rochelle Moulton: 75 of them, which apparently is not unusual. So I decided I needed an app for that, And I chose the paid version of Todoist.com because it seems simple and because I could share home tasks with my hubby. And I was super excited to sit down and start scheduling out all these projects. I jotted down at least 1 next action step for each 1, multiple steps for some bigger projects, and I was going to enter them all in Todoist. Right. I made it through scheduling maybe half a dozen next steps and it just did not feel right.03:16 - 03:51Rochelle Moulton: It felt like drudgery, even though some of the projects and action steps I was scheduling were going to be fun. And I'm the kind of person who loves a good list and feeling organized. So I stopped and paid attention to that emotion and I realized it was resistance to pre-scheduling every day. Because 1 of the things I adore about being a soloist is the flexibility to work on the things I want when I want. So I pivoted a little bit. I only put the big recurring things in my to-do list so I could take them off03:51 - 04:33Rochelle Moulton: my calendar, like my weekly Monday writing time, my podcast production items, some social media. And then I added monthly, quarterly, and annual things, Everything from the monthly package to send to my bookkeeper, to quarterly text filings, and advance notice of birthdays, so I get cards and gifts out on time. I kept all of my next action items with their respective projects. So instead of scheduling them on a calendar or with Todoist.com, I could just decide what I felt like working on when I had a bracket of time. Total game changer. I have a bird's eye view04:33 - 05:07Rochelle Moulton: of all of my projects and I can dedicate my energy to the ones that feel most important or call to me on a particular day. The next thing that this made me do was to get real about what I was actually going to do. And I just deleted some things because I knew I didn't want to do them ever. Even if doing them seemed like a good idea when I put them on the list. So the first thing that happened was I got some brain space back that I didn't even know I was using before. And05:07 - 05:40Rochelle Moulton: for those of you juggling lots of ideas and tasks, I know you can imagine what happens when the bees stop buzzing in your head. And then I got so excited by the time freed up in my calendar, I actually made a new product that I then launched a couple of weeks later. Pure experiment, pure joy. And the thing that was remarkable was that I didn't really have any more time than I had had before. It was simply quieting the voice in my head that said, you have too much to do to tackle anything else. So getting05:40 - 06:18Rochelle Moulton: things done definitely helped me to build structure around the holes in what I thought was already a very efficient system for managing my work and home lives. But even with his maybe someday list, which is a parking lot for the things you might like to do but haven't committed to yet, Getting things done still didn't get to the heart of the 2 most important things when I think about how productive any of us are. Deciding how to best focus our unique genius so that we're building a long-term body of work and a life that fulfills us.06:19 - 07:00Rochelle Moulton: And figuring out how to avoid falling into hustle, hustle, and then more hustle. Being productive is not about making a huge list and ticking things off. Even if, like me, you get a little thrill when you cross off a completed task. We don't want to get better and faster at doing everything on a list that isn't exactly what we want to invest in over the long term. And let's face it, even soloists can fill our list with other people's agendas and action items. We want to slow down and invest meaningfully in those activities that have deep07:00 - 07:42Rochelle Moulton: value to us. So I found myself exploring a series of books, some would call it Going Down a Rabbit Hole, that were either explicitly about productivity or struck me as productivity centered even if the titles didn't quite match up. The last 1 I read probably hit me the most, and that was Slow Productivity, the Lost Art of Accomplishment Without Burnout by Cal Newport. And shout out to Erica Goody for that recommendation. At its simplest, he espouses 3 ideas. Do fewer things, work at a natural pace, and obsess over quality. And those 3 just felt like they07:42 - 08:21Rochelle Moulton: jive so well with the soloist mindset and how we can distinguish ourselves with our body of work. It's really a terrific book, and I encourage you to read it for the examples he gives and the mindset he encourages. I also loved 4, 000 Weeks, Time Management for Mortals, and frankly, anything by its author, Oliver Berkman. He does a delicious job of making you realize we have only so many weeks to live, 4, 000 if we're lucky, and therefore can never ever get everything done we might want to do. So his message is, why try? Instead, double08:21 - 09:00Rochelle Moulton: down on what really matters to you in your life and in your work. Now obviously I'm not doing justice to a deep, rich book, but I'm trying to make a point. Both of these books are quite similar in their big idea that slow is better than fast and less can absolutely be more. I'm glad I read both, and if this topic speaks to you, I highly recommend them. But there's more. During the same few weeks I read Slow Productivity and 4, 000 Weeks, I also happened to reread Greg McCowen's Essentialism, The Disciplined Art of Doing Less,09:00 - 09:45Rochelle Moulton: which was published back in 2014. It wasn't marketed as a productivity book, but the message is the same. Do fewer things at a reasonable pace with high quality. Slow it down So what we do matters more. Concentrate and obsess over quality. It's kind of the essence of the soloist mindset, right? The anti-bro hustle model. It's been interesting stepping back after absorbing these books because I've been seeing the same trend with my one-to-one clients. Once they hit their enough revenue goal consistently, it's about going deeper, about having fewer offerings and consolidating their time so they can optimize09:46 - 10:28Rochelle Moulton: their impact, professionally, personally. It's like they're climbing Maslow's hierarchy of needs to the top of the pyramid. And that's why I wanted to start a conversation about productivity for soloists. Because when we're productive in a way that's joyful, and we're building our impact, doing our best work, that's when we're contributing at our very highest level. Working in your genius zone at Whatever pace is right for you not only feels amazing, but it's your highest best use out in the world. So I'd love to hear what you think on this topic and perhaps explore this some more10:28 - 10:48Rochelle Moulton: with a guest or 2 if this topic resonates with you. So shoot me an email to rm at Rochelle Moulton dot com if you've got something to say about this. I'll be putting links to each of the books I've mentioned in the show notes so you can check them out. Alrighty then. That's it for this episode. I hope you'll join us next time for the soloist life. Bye bye.

When you’re focused on building a $100 million business with a co-founder, what could possibly make you peel off to become a Soloist? Consultant Rob Fegan shares how he pivoted from his first business to a highly profitable (and life-enhancing) Soloist consulting practice:Why he transitioned from co-founding and growing their potentially $100 million business to become a Soloist.The value of experimenting and failing—or succeeding—fast.How he 5x’ed his prices in a single quarter by focusing on the value he was delivering to his ideal clients.When to shoot for big leaps vs. incremental growth (and why you don’t necessarily need a big audience to build a 6-7 figure Soloist business).How a failed experiment convinced him to double-down on his genius zone.LINKSRob Fegan Website | LinkedInRochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramBIORob Fegan is an author, speaker and the founder of Venvito Consulting. He is a highly sought-after expert and leading authority for Microsoft Partners. Rob is on a mission to help founders and individual contributors demystify the success formula to become a go-to partner working with Microsoft. BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLERESOURCES FOR SOLOISTSJoin the Soloist email list: helping thousands of Soloist Consultants smash through their revenue plateau.Soloist Events: in-person events for Soloists to gather and learn.The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 - 00:30Rob Fegan : For me, I'm focused on working with 5 to 10 clients throughout the year. My business is not set up to work with thousands of clients or even hundreds of clients. It's really finding the few clients that I can help and serve in a way that allows me to be really part of their business to help me grow their business versus trying to touch a lot of people with just a little bit of value.00:35 - 01:07Rochelle Moulton: Hello, hello. Welcome to the Soloist Life podcast where we're all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I'm Rochelle Moulton and today I'm here with Rob Fegan who is an author, speaker, and the founder of Venvido Consulting. He is a highly sought after expert and leading authority for Microsoft partners. Rob is on a mission to help founders and individual contributors demystify the success formula to become a go-to partner working with Microsoft. Rob, welcome.01:08 - 01:11Rob Fegan : Rochelle, thanks a lot. I'm excited for our conversation today.01:12 - 01:42Rochelle Moulton: Oh, me too. So there are all kinds of things we can talk about today. But the thing that most, I guess, captivated me the last time we talked was your story about becoming a soloist. So set the stage for us. So before you started soloing in 2022, You had a business and a business partner. So what was your plan together for that business? It started off in 2015 where my partner and I, we wanted to continue to grow.01:42 - 02:18Rob Fegan : We were both in the Microsoft ecosystem working for partners. And we realized that we had an approach that we thought was really unique in the market. So we created a company back in 2015 and we grew that to millions of dollars in revenue in a really short time. And so we were super passionate about what we were doing. We had a mission to get to $100 million was the goal for the company. And as we grew and as the problems got bigger and the numbers got bigger, My partner and I, we had a different approach or02:18 - 02:42Rob Fegan : a different view on how we were going to move forward from there. And it became a real challenge and something that I felt I knew what I wanted to do. I knew the mission I was on and we just couldn't see eye to eye on that. So I decided to move on from that business and to make the transition into a soloist career. So it was a huge change, but 1 that I don't regret for a second.02:42 - 02:50Rochelle Moulton: Well, now, refresh my memory on this. Was the 100 million, like, was that what you were planning? Like, that was your dream?02:50 - 03:23Rob Fegan : That was the goal that we had when we started the company back in 2015. That was our joint vision it was to get to this you know hundred million dollar mark and You know what? I don't think either of us had a good feel for was what that entailed and the sacrifices that we'd be making individually and as a partnership to get to that mark and so for me it was just a decision about how I was going to run my life and what I wanted from life, what I wanted from my business. And so it03:23 - 03:25Rob Fegan : was just a time to make a real change for me.03:26 - 03:38Rochelle Moulton: And can you talk just a little bit about the sacrifices? Like, is it about how you spend your time with employees, or was it the hours, the quality? How did you see the sacrifices you were making?03:39 - 04:12Rob Fegan : It was really all of the above. It was the amount of time I was spending in the business. It was the time away from my family. I was traveling a lot to grow the business, to spend time with employees, to recruit employees, to overall manage the entire business as we were growing and we were growing rapidly. So we were growing quarter over quarter. We had just excellent growth and consistent growth, but that came at a real price for me, for my family, and I didn't see that as being sustainable for me. I wanted something different that04:12 - 04:38Rob Fegan : gave me more control over how I approach life and the time I was able to dedicate to not only the business, but to my family and full disclosure, I love what I do. I loved what I did back then, but it was just getting away from me. It was becoming all consuming and I was losing sight of the things that were important across the board, not just business or just family, but living in sort of more holistic approach to life.04:38 - 04:41Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, be careful what you wish for because you might get it, right?04:41 - 04:55Rob Fegan : Yeah, it was absolutely, oh, Michelle, that is such a great way to say that is that it was that It was, you know, careful what you wish for. We were ultra successful, but it came at a price that I didn't clearly appreciate when we set out on the business.04:56 - 05:14Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, and if it makes you feel any better, I don't think anybody really does know, you know, until you're in it and you deal with employees and hiring and firing and traveling for clients I mean, it's it's I think a lot of that is hard to see ahead of time But it's really easy to see in the rear view,05:14 - 05:15Rob Fegan : right?05:15 - 05:22Rochelle Moulton: So once you severed your relationship with that business, so what did you do like immediately afterwards? What did you do next?05:22 - 05:59Rob Fegan : So immediately afterwards I am well it was March of 2020 when the When we actually separated company so oh goodness About some fortuitous timing so I took a little bit of time off. I think I took most of the pandemic off, which was nice. It was an amazing opportunity to spend time with my family. That was the first thing that happened. But by 2021, mid-2021, I was ready to get back at it. I was like, okay, I love what I did back then. I love being part of the larger ecosystem, the Microsoft ecosystem. And so I05:59 - 06:30Rob Fegan : was looking for a way to get back into it and just in a more balanced way, in a way that I had more control over what I would take on and what I would do and how I would do it. So I just started sticking my toe in the water of helping a few friends that had businesses in that same space, doing a little bit of coaching for them, just to kind of feel out if this was something that the market was going to be willing to bear, was having someone come in and coach founders, owners,06:30 - 06:40Rob Fegan : and sales leaders on how to partner with Microsoft. So now that's in the 2021 timeframe is when I started to dip my toe back in the water.06:40 - 06:43Rochelle Moulton: And then when did you actually start the business? Was that 2022?06:44 - 07:17Rob Fegan : It was, yeah. So by the end of 2021, I had had enough interest and enough people had said yes, just to even coming in and a lot of it was done pro bono and hindsight, I probably wouldn't do that again. I was like, wait, I've delivered a lot of value. But it really did give me the confidence to say there is a need in the market. And so come 2022, I decided to make a real legitimate go of building a practice around coaching Microsoft partners and founders of partners. So that was really when I decided, okay,07:17 - 07:30Rob Fegan : I have to start to think through what it's gonna take, who can I serve, how can I serve them? And I have to say there was lots of trial and error at the beginning, but overall. Shocker. Right?07:32 - 07:41Rochelle Moulton: Well, now I know you have a very, very successful business, Rob, but how long did it take you to hit your first 100K? Did you do that in your first year?07:41 - 07:50Rob Fegan : I did not. I did not hit 100K in the first year. I was, I think I finished the year around $75, 000 or $80, 000.07:51 - 07:51Rochelle Moulton: Okay,07:52 - 08:19Rob Fegan : so I sat back and thought, okay, I know how much value I'm bringing. I wasn't charging accordingly to the value I was bringing. So I made a concerted or I made a decision that I was going to change the entire pricing model for the business going into 2023. And so Q1 of 2023, I hit the $100, 000 mark in that first quarter.08:19 - 08:19Rochelle Moulton: That's quite08:19 - 08:20Rob Fegan : a change.08:20 - 08:30Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. So what did you do? Did you link your fees specifically to the value or did you just rethink them in terms of their overall value to your ideal client?08:30 - 09:02Rob Fegan : So I really, initially I just said, okay, I know I'm delivering more value, I'm going to up the price. And In the first quarter, I think I upped it 5 times Wow I was like, okay, you know, they said yes to that and didn't think it they didn't think twice so the next time I doubled it and the next customer did not bat an eyelash, they just said yes. So it took 5 times doubling my price to get to a point where I felt like, okay, now it's a real decision for them. They still see the09:02 - 09:28Rob Fegan : value. They see the additional value I can bring. I tell owners and founders and leaders is that if you do this right, you should be adding half a million to a million dollars in top of funnel activity for your salespeople in partnering with Microsoft. So that's a massive value for them. And so I'm always trying to think in the back of my head, whatever I charge, can I deliver 10x the value?09:28 - 09:54Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, I like that. I like that ratio. But the other thing I want to ask you is, and this is for people who are struggling with raising their prices with doubling their prices, never mind 5 Xing. Did you ever have to like have these conversations with yourself about, yes, I really can double this because I see this value and I can 10X the value of what they pay me? Did you have to have these sort of internal debates with yourself or did you just09:55 - 10:20Rob Fegan : do it? Oh my goodness, the first few times I literally, I would be arguing with myself, I think people must have thought I was crazy. I was like, I'd literally be like, no, you can't do that. There's no way. So I would just have these in my head going over and over that I can't say that number. I can't. Nobody would pay that number for this. And then I was like, okay, I'm just going to do it, no matter what they say. And so finally, I just said, okay, I'll do it. And by the third time,10:20 - 10:49Rob Fegan : I was like, okay. Now, every time they say yes, the next one's getting twice the price. Yeah. Until I got to that place where it was like, okay, they have to think much deeper about are they going to move forward with this? Do they really see the value? Do they really believe in, are they really committed? And that was the big thing that for me, I realized is that when I got to the right price, I was only working with people that were 100% committed to making this work. You know, when I first started, people will10:49 - 11:11Rob Fegan : be like, oh, well, it was, you know, it didn't work, no problem, just move on. Now I'm like, no, we need to do all these things together and to make this business work for you and to really leverage the Microsoft ecosystem. And when they got to that final pricing structure where I am today, now they're 100% committed to everyone will know it now.11:11 - 11:41Rochelle Moulton: Oh, I mean, there's so much we could unpack there. And what's fascinating to me is this idea that you get better clients by increasing your prices. Now you're not doing that in a vacuum. You are relating those prices to the transformations you're producing. So I don't want to give the impression that anybody can just go out and 5X your prices and be fine, right? You've got to be delivering value, but when you do that, it literally can change overnight the quality of your clients.11:41 - 12:09Rob Fegan : Oh, that is so true, Rochelle. I can tell you today, I love working with the clients I'm working with today because they are so committed. They're equally as passionate about making the system work, their system work. They're equally as passionate about working in the Microsoft ecosystem. So it really did. The right people to me and me to them when I've got the right pricing structure and we're all committed 100% to making it work.12:11 - 12:38Rochelle Moulton: Love that. So 1 of the other things that really struck me since I've had a little bit of a front row seat to your business growth the last couple of years is how you seem to experiment with new ideas in your business. Like I have watched you grab an idea that you heard from somewhere like a podcast or a book and you go and run with it and you experiment and then you come back, like ready for the next thing. Will you talk a little bit more about the role of experimenting? We've talked a little bit12:38 - 12:47Rochelle Moulton: about it with pricing, but I think you've done some other experiments as well. Yeah, for me, and 1 of the big areas, Probably the most difficult area for me and the12:47 - 13:27Rob Fegan : experimentation that I had to go through here was in my Marketing efforts. I don't buy ads. I don't do any paid advertising for me I'm out there just educating my audience and part of what I invest in is LinkedIn. And so I started off and I was absolutely terrified of putting myself out there, but I watched people like yourself and like other consultants out there educating and delivering high value content on the platform specifically for me, LinkedIn. And I was like, that seems like it's got legs for me. It seems like what it's authentic and true13:27 - 13:56Rob Fegan : to who I am is I wanna be out there teaching. I'm not out there throwing offers out of, buy today, buy by 05:00. It's, no, just let me educate you, let me share some interesting facts or some interesting information. And so for me, just even getting onto the social media platform and the LinkedIn platform and showing up every day was a challenge. And then I would see more and more people sharing content via video. And I was terrified of that. I was absolutely like, no way, can't do it.13:56 - 14:00Rochelle Moulton: Oh, you're great on video. I've seen some of your videos. They're really good.14:00 - 14:34Rob Fegan : Well, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. But it was so terrifying for me. I was like, I can't do this. I mean, who would want to watch a video from me? And so, you know, the first time I did it was just the camera in my laptop and no audio, no lights, just really, really rough. But I just kept doing it, and I kept doing it over and over again, to the point now where I'm comfortable jumping on a video and having a conversation, sharing information. But for me, experimenting is so important. I don't profess14:34 - 15:06Rob Fegan : to know all the secrets to social media or building a business, but what I do know is that if I can find a good idea, and I'm a big fan of podcasts, reading, all these different mediums to find new ideas that I can try in my business and see what works. And I'm not afraid to kill them fast. If it doesn't work, it's gone. But if it works and if I see traction, even if it's traction slowly over time, I'm going to continue to invest in that and work on improving my skills in that area just15:06 - 15:09Rob Fegan : to help grow the business and help grow myself at the end15:09 - 15:34Rochelle Moulton: of the day. Yeah. And when I looked at your LinkedIn profile just before I got on and you had, I think, 6, 000 plus followers. So you really became highly visible within your niche in LinkedIn very fast. And do you think it was more about the content that you were sharing, the relationships you were developing, or was it sort of a blend of both?15:34 - 15:59Rob Fegan : That's a great question, and I will just, I'll say, when you say very fast, it was probably, the 6, 000 probably came in the last 90 days for the...

That first year after leaving corporate life can be tricky—do you say yes to most every opportunity or niche immediately and start saying no? Strategic communicator Jacqui Miller aced (by any measure) her first year as a Soloist and describes how she made it happen:The surprising first thing she did when leaving her corporate job to start her expertise business.Why she made the decision to niche right away—and then continued to niche down even more.How she decides which clients to take on and which to refer (and why she’s a big believer in creating a circle of complementary professionals).What to do when you hit an inflection point in your career/business where you’re “not practicing at the top of your license”.The communication strategies that expanded her impact and relationships.LINKSJacqui Miller Website | LinkedIn | On Thought LeadershipRochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramBIOJacqui is a communications professional with over 15 years of experience in early-stage and high-complexity businesses. Previously, she led communications at PillPack, a digital pharmacy, from the first customer through its $1 billion acquisition by Amazon. She's also launched moonshots at Google X, and helped bring to market the first genomic tumor test for personalized cancer treatment at Foundation Medicine.Today, she works alongside founding teams to take the long view on communications as an executive function. Her philosophy is that the best PR strategy is ultimately just running a thoughtful business.BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLERESOURCES FOR SOLOISTSJoin the Soloist email list: helping thousands of Soloist Consultants smash through their revenue plateau.Soloist Events: in-person events for Soloists to gather and learn.The Soloist Women community: a place to connect with like-minded women (and join a channel dedicated to your revenue level).The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.TRANSCRIPT00:00 - 00:23Jacqui Miller: I had never in my in-house W2 career tried to grow a big team or even really have many direct reports. So it would have been a new thing for me to do to go and try to build a bigger team as a consultant. So it did feel pretty natural. And then Everybody would ask me, oh, are you starting an agency? Are you hiring people? Are you doing this? And I had to go through a little bit of a moment where I was like, is that what I'm supposed to do? Am I supposed to be hiring these00:23 - 00:28Jacqui Miller: people? And was able to come out the other side of that and realize I'm quite happy as a soloist.00:34 - 01:19Rochelle Moulton: Hello, hello. Welcome to the Soloist Life podcast, formerly known as Soloist Women, where we're all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I'm Rochelle Moulton, and today I'm here with Jacqui  Miller, who's a communications pro with over 15 years of experience in early stage and high complexity businesses. Previously, she led communications at PillPack, a digital pharmacy, from the first customer through its $1 billion acquisition by Amazon. She's also launched Moonshots at Google X and helped bring to market the first genomic tumor test for personalized cancer treatment at Foundation Medicine. Today, she works alongside founding teams01:19 - 01:31Rochelle Moulton: to take the long view on communications as an executive function. Her philosophy is that the best PR strategy is ultimately just running a thoughtful business. Jackie, welcome.01:32 - 01:34Jacqui Miller: Thank you so much, Rochelle. I'm really happy to be here.01:34 - 01:56Rochelle Moulton: Oh, I'm so excited. So 1 of the many reasons I invited you on the show is your powerhouse year number 1 experience as a soloist. So Why don't we start there? Maybe you could tell us about how you decided to leave your job and to go solo. How hard was it to exit and make that transition to owning your own01:56 - 02:25Jacqui Miller: business? Absolutely. So I do also have to say, Rachelle, I found your podcast early on and it has been so helpful to hear other folks who've made this jump. So it is really an honor to be here to share my story too. So I had a job, a full-time job, and you know, I'd been in the role for probably 6 months and I was starting to feel like this is not my genius zone. This is just not accessing the parts of my brain that I want. I don't think it's the right fit. So I had started02:25 - 02:49Jacqui Miller: thinking, what would it look like if I left? What would I do? I don't know, kind of poking around. And also feeling quite a bit of fear because I'd been there for just a short amount of time and obviously didn't want to kind of burn any bridges. And all of this was rolling around in my head. And then in the background also had, as you'd mentioned in the intro, I'd worked for a startup, had kind of a nest egg from that acquisition. So I knew I would be okay if it took me a minute to figure02:49 - 03:19Jacqui Miller: out the next thing. And 1 day I just, I had, I really frustrated. Something happened at work and I kind of had an out of body moment where I was like, you know, there's not that many opportunities in life where you get to make a decision based on your gut feeling and what you know is right for you. And this is not right for me and I'm gonna leave and I'm gonna figure out what the next best thing looks like for me. And so pretty rapidly, I closed up shop there and left everything in good shape.03:19 - 03:22Jacqui Miller: And the first thing I did, Michelle, was I went and I got a new headshot.03:25 - 03:30Rochelle Moulton: It's funny because that's the thing that everybody hates. They leave it to the very end. I love it.03:30 - 03:51Jacqui Miller: And as a communications and public relations person, I was like, you know what I think is going to make me feel confident about whatever I do next? It's having a brand new headshot on LinkedIn. So that Saturday after my last day at work, I went and I got my makeup done and got a new headshot. And I kind of just hung my shingle out in the proverbial sense on LinkedIn and started trying to figure it out.03:51 - 04:00Rochelle Moulton: So you didn't do the, oh, let me create this giant website and figure out the 2700 things I can do for you. You started on LinkedIn.04:00 - 04:27Jacqui Miller: I did. I think exactly what I did. I switched my role to working for myself. I was fortunate enough to have a couple of folks very early on who I'd sort of been talking to and they were like, if you become free, we have work for you to do. So I was fortunate enough to have that early on while I wrote my website and that sort of thing. And yeah, I just really started kind of putting it out there to folks in my network that I was available to do projects and would love to chat.04:28 - 04:45Rochelle Moulton: Okay. So, you know, I always ask people, you know, how long did it take to make your first 100, 000? And I know that you made over 100, 000 in your first year. So tell us how you experience like the financial side of your new business, especially compared to yourself as a salaried employee. Yeah,04:46 - 05:19Jacqui Miller: it's been wild. The pricing side was really intimidating to me at first. As an in-house person, I'd worked with agencies, I'd worked with a few soloists. I understood the value of what I could do. But putting together those earlier proposals, I was lucky to have a few friends who had kind of been here before me who were willing to look at them, but it was very overwhelming. But what I quickly figured out was when I'm doing my best work, it's very valuable to the companies. And in a full-time role at the level that I'd gotten to05:19 - 05:45Jacqui Miller: as a communications professional I hadn't been in a job for a while that was using kind of my full brain all of the time. So initially I was like oh is it okay to make this much money in a month? Am I overcharging? What am I doing? But I realized that the pricing structure as a soloist at a certain point in your career is really lucrative and fun because you're doing the things that You know at least for me that I find both the most challenging but also the most rewarding But that are also creating the05:45 - 05:47Jacqui Miller: most value for the folks I'm working with.05:47 - 05:57Rochelle Moulton: And it's funny that that would be a disconnect, right? Like I'm doing these things in my genius zone, they're worth a lot of money. Oh, I can charge a lot.05:58 - 06:15Jacqui Miller: Right, and I'm making 3 times as much as I was as a W2 employee, is that right? And when you think about it logically, it makes sense, but it was a strange realization for me. And then really exciting about what that meant for my earning potential and what kind of a lifestyle I could figure out while still having so much fun.06:15 - 06:37Rochelle Moulton: Well, and I just want to point out that, you know, mindset is so critical, right? And you just set a magic number, at least in my head, which is 3 times. So you got to a point where you were earning 3 times what you earned as an employee, using your full brain, doing what you love. Were you working as much as an employee, more or about the same?06:37 - 07:01Jacqui Miller: I will say I was working quite a bit more. Still, I would say in the first year, probably the biggest thing I need to still figure out is how to get to the number of hours I want to be working a week. You know, I'm not working. I have 2 small children, so they don't really allow me to work much more than maybe 35 or 40 hours. But I'd like to get to the point where I can just balance that a little bit better. So definitely working more, but I think also just feeling much more fulfilled07:01 - 07:01Jacqui Miller: by it.07:01 - 07:04Rochelle Moulton: Yes, it feels like a holistic approach to it.07:04 - 07:14Jacqui Miller: Absolutely. And just really excited to open my email and see what new things had come in and tackle the next project. I was just feeling energized in a way that I hadn't in quite a bit.07:14 - 07:42Rochelle Moulton: What a difference that is to be excited about the emails coming into your box. So when we first met, you'd already made the decision to niche, which in my experience is boldly unusual. Lots of folks spend that freshman year doing a little bit of everything and then regretting it in year 2. But you focused like right from the beginning. Tell us about that decision and how it played out where you decided to play in a specific niche.07:42 - 08:17Jacqui Miller: Yeah, it started out in part based on, you know, other communications professionals that I'd seen going off on their own. The ones that I was most inspired by, I felt like were being quite specific about what they were doing. Communications is a really broad field. It can fit into marketing. It can fit separate from marketing. It can be just public relations. It can be just internal communications. It's a very broad area of expertise. And as I kind of looked around at other folks who were doing this soloist thing or building small agencies, I was really inspired08:17 - 08:46Jacqui Miller: by the people who were saying, you know, quite specifically, we are doing this thing for this industry in this way. So I wanted to get to that as quickly as possible. And I also, you know, having been in house and running these functions inside of businesses for so long, I really had a good understanding of what makes for a good soloist consultant offering in terms of what sort of things you can have somebody like that take on successfully. So those 2 experiences helped me feel more confident and offering a tighter range of services when I first08:46 - 08:46Jacqui Miller: started.08:46 - 09:03Rochelle Moulton: Well, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but as I'm listening to you, it sounds like you've got a point of view, whether you've fully articulated in writing or not. Is that the case? Yes. Any point of view in terms of communications, in terms of how it impacts clients, the way that it works best.09:03 - 09:37Jacqui Miller: Definitely. I would say I'm very passionate about the idea that communications cannot be fully outsourced, nor should it be. I actually, as I've gotten further into this first year of business, I've niched even more than I think the first time we talked, into really thinking about engagements as working with very, very early stage companies who, you know, it's still the founder and a small team. And then there's kind of this valley where I think a lot of companies and startups especially, it was the majority of folks I work with are venture-backed startups, where they kind of09:37 - 10:07Jacqui Miller: try to fake it for a while on the communication side and they don't quite want to hire the expertise so they're trying to fill the gaps with somebody in marketing or a PR agency. I get really passionate about talking to those folks and telling them, just go hire someone who loves to write and has high judgment and bring them in house and let them work with you and trust them and give them the tools they need to really guide the business. We live in a world where reputation is everything. That person doesn't need to be super10:07 - 10:31Jacqui Miller: senior, but you do need someone who's looking out for the reputation of the business. It's a little ironic that that's my strong point of view, because then I'm here as a consultant. But I think having that point of view helps me give clients really good advice. And then I can tell them, they're like, OK, great. So what can you do for us? And then I can talk about kind of the range of things that I can do either before you hire that person to set them up for success or after you've hired them to be a10:31 - 10:38Jacqui Miller: thought partner and a coach and an extra set of hands when they need it, but mostly helping them figure out how to grow that role within the business.10:39 - 11:12Rochelle Moulton: Well, 1 of the advantages of taking that position is that you're doing 2 things at the same time. 1 is you're telling them to essentially get a trusted advisor that they hire to keep on staff. And the other is by saying the opposite of what many other people would say in order to get work, you have built more trust in that initial engagement. Yeah. So yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. So moving forward though, what do you see is the revenue potential for this business from where you are now? So where you are now, 311:12 - 11:24Rochelle Moulton: times what you were making as an employee, Are you picturing that you can double your revenue, triple a much bigger multiplier? Where do you see the business going?11:24 - 11:53Jacqui Miller: Yeah, it's a good question. And I'm influenced by people you've had on the podcast before, and I'll name drop them because people should go listen to their episodes. But I remember Erica Goodie's episode, you talked to Heather Welpley and Katie Burkhart, and they all had these amazing points about how they make their business and their financial goals really work for their lives as a whole. And that's the thing I think I'm trying to figure out. And I don't know yet what that looks like for me. I think I'd love to kind of toggle the pricing levers11:53 - 12:04Jacqui Miller: and the services levers, and then what other things are important in my life to figure that out. But it has been a lot of fun, I think, in year 1 to just really go for it and see what I can do if I'm firing on all cylinders.12:04 - 12:18Rochelle Moulton: And it's also, it's a little unfair of me to ask you that question at the end of year 1. Right? But sometimes you just see a clear path ahead. Well, do you see adding employees at some point or have you become a confirmed soloist?12:19 - 12:39Jacqui Miller: I'm pretty sure I'm a confirmed soloist. I just don't get as much enjoyment out of managing people. And I've actually I've got a couple proposals out right now where I've brought in colleagues or peers who do similar things and proposing, you know, we can, we can work together to do all of the things that you need. But it's really fun to only report to myself.12:40 - 12:40Rochelle Moulton: Yeah.12:40 - 12:51Jacqui Miller: And for me, I think it helps me be more in my genius zone more often when I'm not also trying to delegate and figure out who's going to do what. And I get to focus on the projects that I feel like are best fit for my expertise.12:52 - 13:08Rochelle Moulton: I'm just curious, when you first left the corporate environment, did you know that at the beginning? Because sometimes people will say, oh, yeah, I was in corporate and I was managing a bunch of employees and I just realized it just wasn't for me Or is this something that kind of grew on you gradually as you figured out your genius zone?13:08 - 13:40Jacqui Miller: I've always known that I really enjoy being an executive level individual contributor And I think that's kind of a rarefied position. And I was very fortunate to be able to do that for quite some time, where I didn't have a team and manage people. And I got to sit at the table and have my thoughts and go and do my work. And I really...