

Sport and the Growing Good
Peter Miller
The Sport and the Growing Good Podcast examines leadership and coaching in sports settings. In conversations with leaders from wide-ranging contexts, we learn not just about competitive excellence within the game, but also how to leverage sports for broader individual and group flourishing.
The podcast is hosted by Dr. Peter Miller, a professor in Sports Leadership at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
The podcast is hosted by Dr. Peter Miller, a professor in Sports Leadership at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Apr 5, 2021 • 41min
#88: Victor and Dawn Barnett of the Running Rebels take the family approach to position Milwaukee's youth for success
Victor Barnett started the Running Rebels over 40 years ago on an outdoor basketball court in Milwaukee. Today, Victor and Dawn serve as co-executive directors and the Running Rebels has flourished as a robust community organization that includes sports and much, much more. They joined the SGG podcast to discuss:
1. The origins of the program. Victor: “I always knew I wanted to change the world, to make a difference.”
2. Recognizing talents and skills within young people.
3. How the “Running Rebels” name came to be.
4. Why basketball was the place to start. “I introduced them to everything…But I asked, ‘where is the passion of the young people?’ and it was with basketball. And there was a court right down the street…I had to find a way, if I was going to make a difference, how can I get them to want to be with me every day? It wasn’t because I was a great guy. It was because of the basketball.”
5. Examples of success stories: a basketball player and an engineer.
6. What is “the full circle?” Dawn: “We pour into young people. We plant seeds in hopes that they will come back around to help the next generation.”
7. Dawn: “The greatest satisfaction is seeing them become really connected parents in a way that they themselves didn’t have. But because of what was poured into them, they learned how to be there…That’s generational change.”
8. Victor: “We want to put them in a position to be successful.”
9. Kevon Looney: Even after he got a scholarship to UCLA and then went to the pros, remained committed to helping the young people in the community. “Can you imagine the example that he gives other people when he’s humble? He’s steady and level-headed.”
10. Dawn describing how many young people see Victor as a father figure. “When you have that sort of an influence, and you’re able to give guidance, even when a young person didn’t have that in their life, you fill that gap and you show them, ‘This is what a parent looks like. This is what positive guidance feels like, this is what’s instilled in them.”
11. Dawn: We want to help the community from within. The role models that our young people are looking for are right here in the community.”
12. Living with integrity and what it means to be a role model.
13. Using sports terminology beyond sports (e.g., “assist”) and using sports as teaching tools.
14. Parents and coaches don’t send the right messages in sports – how competitiveness can bring out the worst in people. “When it’s about winning more than the development of young people, then we have a problem.”
15. Deciding not to pursue AAU basketball anymore. “It become so negative and difficult to stay right in something that is so wrong. So we changed our model…We wanted to step back and be the big brother organization that does it the right way…that helps others.”
16. Guiding from the side: “Teaching the skillset of making healthy decisions.”
17. Having a non-judgmental approach in working with young people.
18. Connecting youth to several adults in the network – the family approach.
19. The importance of physical space for doing their work: “If we dreamed 40 years ago of what we would like to have, we have it.”
20. Not forgetting where the program came from.
21. Taking on a holistic approach to working with young people.
22. Instilling, understanding, and taking pride in work and life skills.
23. Collaboration with others in the community, including Work Milwaukee and Quad Graphics.
24. Unity.

Apr 3, 2021 • 31min
#87 Professor David Bell is a leading researcher on injuries in sport (re-edit of episode #8)
David Bell is a professor in Kinesiology at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and a leading expert on injuries in youth sports. In this re-edit as part of the special SGG series on youth sports, we discussed:
1. What should parents and youth coaches know about sport
2. The impacts of physical activity in youth and young adulthood years.
3. Why more and more kids are dropping out of sports at younger ages.
4. The definition of youth sport specialization. What “highly specialized” means.
5. What does puberty have to do with specialization? What should parents know…
6. Why there are higher rates of specialization among young female athletes.
7. The importance of the triad between coach, parent, and athlete in creating healthy sporting experience.
8. Recommendations: delaying specialization as long as possible; play on one team at a time; don’t play a single sport more than eight months per year – especially before puberty; play a sport no more hours per week than your age; and take two days off per week.
9. What can college-level coaches and leaders do to help foster a healthy pipeline?
10. Previous injury predicts future risk.

Apr 2, 2021 • 18min
#86: Derrick Mayes on parenting a talented young athlete: “Hindsight gave me 20-20 vision on how to do things with my son”
Derrick Mayes was a great college and NFL football player. But today, much of his energy is directed toward parenting an elite young basketball athlete. He joined the SGG podcast to discuss:
1. His sports experiences as a youngster—including playing contact football starting in 2nd grade.
2. “Hindsight (into his own sports experiences) gave me 20-20 vision on how to do things with my son.”
3. The difficult decisions he’s facing as a parent of a young athlete: 1) no tackle football until at least high school; 2) load management in basketball (but, “there’s a lot of work you can put in that doesn’t put wear and tear” on the body); 3) deciding on which high school to attend (“It’s important to know who’s going to be developing him.”).
4. Public vs. Private school decisions for talented young athletes.
5. Social media: “I am adamant that sports stay merit-based. Your talent will show through.”
6. Social media: “It gives a false narrative of what’s important.”
7. A benefit of today’s high-level youth basketball: Access to innovation in training.
8. Analytics: “I’m thrilled that my son can apply some of the math stuff to something that he cares about.”

Mar 31, 2021 • 26min
#85: Estella Moschkau: “I learned something from every experience I had on the court and it’s transferred into everyday life”
Estella Moschkau excelled at basketball at Edgewood HS, Stanford University, and UW-Madison. Her sports journey also included years of AAU basketball at regional and national levels. Reflecting on the lessons she learned across diverse teams and settings, Estella joined the SGG podcast to discuss:
1. Being placed on the “B” team during her first AAU basketball experience – and the lessons she learned.
2. Playing five years with Wisconsin Elite.
3. Her difficult decision to play for North Tartan, a Nike-sponsored AAU program in the Twin Cities.
4. Not initially starting on the North Tartan team. And the value of humility.
5. High level competition on the EYBL circuit. “I would highly recommend it…It helped toughen me up.”
6. The family commitment required for making travel basketball work.
7. Taking a trip to France, Paris, and Amsterdam with her AAU team.
8. The ins and outs of competing on a national team.
9. The challenges of keeping a positive team culture in elite youth sports environments where everyone has high expectations for their own experiences.
10. The new social media environment in youth sports, including the increasing presence of self-promotion (e.g., “I’m blessed to receive an offer…”). “It’s so gossipy!”
11. “I think every experience you can learn something from...I would go through it again. I learned discipline…I learned something from every experience I had on the court and it’s transferred into everyday life.”
12. Coaching for Wisconsin Elite. “I just hope that I give them a positive experience…Just to lift them up and make the experience fun…And hopefully to love the game more…I think for young girls, it’s especially important to be positive.”

Mar 30, 2021 • 29min
#84: Devin Cannady: From AAU to Princeton to the Pros
Devin Cannady starred as a basketball player at Princeton University and is now a pro, with experience in the NBA and G League. Devin is also known for developing Isowdev, an simple yet innovative training platform that aims to increase access to skill development for young people. In this episode of the SGG podcast, we discussed:
1. Playing multiple sports growing up.
2. The local AAU team that he played on until his sophomore year in high school.
3. What factored into his decision to change to a national level AAU team, including family sacrifices that had to be made.
4. The relationships that were important in his AAU journey.
5. Mentoring his younger brother through his basketball journey.
6. His mother’s role in leading the family through sports.
7. How basketball prepared him for success at Princeton.
8. How and why he developed Isowdev. “It was just a way to stay connected.”
9. “I can be one of those resources that people have access to.”
10. “Technology can be a good thing when used properly…There are a lot of things that technology can’t pick up on, such as the feel of the game. There are nuances that make the game of basketball so beautiful. It’s an art form. The way you move is not meant to be rigid and robotic and too technical.”
11. Creating more access to opportunity in sports.

Mar 30, 2021 • 17min
#83: Intro to the SGG series on youth sports: Reflections from the National Summer Classic
Intro to SGG special series on youth sports.

Mar 26, 2021 • 44min
#82: University of Wisconsin-Whitewater football Kevin Bullis is a teacher first.
Kevin Bullis is the head coach of the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater’s football team, one of the most successful programs in the country. Beyond leading his team to many victories, Coach Bullis has impacted hundreds of lives in a positive fashion. In this episode of the SGG podcast, we discussed:
1. The impact of his parents who were always “helpers.”
2. The coaches who influenced him growing up, including Coach Champ who paid attention to detail, kept things fun, and cared for his players.
3. What he learned from marching band.
4. The importance of trust…and knowing “why” things are done on a team.
5. Knowing what concepts and ideas to adopt…and which don’t fit.
6. “Failure is not an option. It’s a requirement.”
7. The importance of identity: “Who am I and why am I here?”
8. “I am a teacher…I’ve always known that.”
9. UWW football team identity: “Fast, physical, and disciplined”…using these pillars to be the lens for the program.
10. Lessons learned in 2017.
11. Holding others to the same standards he holds himself.
12. What it means for the head coach to “determine the banks of the river.”
13. Teaching staff and players to be better teachers.
14. 1% goals (specific each day)…and aiming to get 3% better each day.
15. What you “see, hear, and feel” at a UWW practice: energy and teaching.
16. “The only people in our program who are not teachers are freshmen during their first semester.”
17. Never attaching degradation to teaching: “Degradation is a distraction from learning.”
18. Building trust through teaching each other.
19. Doing the ordinary things better than everybody else.
20. Listening with the eyes.
21. Taking notes.
22. Holding doors open for others.
23. No bullies in the locker room.
24. Team discussions on race.
25. Showing people you care.

Mar 24, 2021 • 36min
#81: UW-Oshkosh Football Coach Pat Cerroni's journey to the Hall of Fame
Pat Cerroni is a WFCA Hall of Fame coach at UW-Oshkosh. Coach Cerroni’s teams have achieved great success on the field, emerging as one of the top D-III programs in the country. But his biggest impacts may be found off the field, where he’s encouraged a culture of leadership service in his team. He joined the SGG podcast and we discussed:
1. Learning to see and understand the game at a young age. “That was what intrigued me…The ability to see things was given to me.”
2. Learning from coaches in Johnson Creek. Gary Garin. “That was the guy I wanted to be.”
3. How his Air Force experience benefited him: “It really gave me confidence…I thought, ‘I can do anything at this point.’”
4. His brother’s influence on him finding a way into teaching and coaching.
5. Gaining appreciation for home by leaving and seeing other places.
6. Being 19 years-old and in charge of a plane.
7. Learning from other coaches. “I didn’t mind the journey. I started at the very bottom.”
8. Learning different concepts from Coaches Taraska (Arrowhead) and Young (Catholic Memorial).
9. Being aware of perceptions of football coaches in high school buildings…and taking active steps to address them.
10. Being a teacher first at the high school level…and using teaching principles to coach football.
11. The team’s leadership council.
12. Establishing new values, a new theme…and a “brand new team” each year.
13. Knowing when to let others lead: “I have such a strong personality that I realized a long time ago that sometimes I don’t need to be around.”
14. Allowing the senior leadership council to write the shared values and theme for the year. “The story is this: The day I shut up was the day we started winning games.”
15. The spring routine of allowing the seniors to run the off-season program.
16. Learning from John Gagliardi.
17. Using a business model to run the team: “forming, storming, norming, performing”
18. Recruiting players that align with team values.
19. Assigning assistant coaches duties to allow them to indicate their commitment to the team.
20. How his team found the right fit for community service: “Be the Match” and “EAA (honor flight).” And the impact the partnerships have had on the team. (Brett Kasper)

Mar 22, 2021 • 39min
#80: Author Monte Burke on Nick Saban: “How you do anything is how you do everything.”
Monte Burke is a New York Times best-selling author and a former writer and editor for Forbes. As author of Saban: The Making of a Coach, Monte gained unique insight into one of the all-time great coaches. He joined the SGG podcast, where we discussed:
1. The initial days Monte spent with Coach Nick Saban. The importance of being prepared and demonstrating that he was prepared.
2. “The greatest role of an interviewer is to be quiet and to really, really listen.”
3. “All of these people, even the greats, they hear everything. It’s all about how they respond to it.”
4. How Coach Saban uses the media as another way of conveying his message to players, recruits, and fans.
5. Saban getting fired by Coach Earl Bruce at Ohio State.
6. How Saban learned to run a system – including his uneven development at different stops in his professional career.
7. Using temper flare-ups strategically.
8. “How you do anything is how you do everything.”
9. Two sides of Saban: “prickly” and “charismatic.”
10. Saban’s greatest strength: recruiting.
11. One of Saban’s initial strategies: Spreading a common message to boosters and getting everyone on the same page.
12. The role Mrs. Saban plays on the team: gatekeeper and surrogate mother.
13. Strength coach as “bad cop” on the coaching staff who “sets the tone for the program.”
14. Putting lots of energy into the “squeaky wheels” on the team.
15. The importance of routine in Saban’s daily life – and his ongoing discussion of: “thoughts, habits, and priorities.”
16. Liking the minutiae of coaching.
17. “The dangers of ‘relief syndrome.’”
18. Broader leadership lessons from Coach Saban.
19. Breaking things down in “little systematic ways.”
20. Pete Carroll.
21. Obsessions found in leaders…and some of the down sides associated with being obsessive.

Dec 12, 2020 • 49min
#79: Gunnar Roberge learned to relish the moment as a Badger football player
Gunnar Roberge grew up playing multiple sports in Sparta and then Seymour, Wisconsin. Gunnar went on to play football at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, where he was a multi-year contributor. He joined SGG for the final episode of our special series on football in the state. We discussed:
1. Starting football at a young age in Sparta, Wisconsin – and being “a big teddy bear.”
2. The benefits of being on a sports team. “The most valuable piece for me personally was just the sense of family.”
3. “A lot of my childhood, and even now, I’ve tried to seek out positive adult male role models… And luckily I’ve been fortunate that many of my coaches throughout my football career did a good job filling that role.”
4. Seymour football coach Matt Molle: “He’s a family man. He taught me about positive masculinity. He taught me it’s good and ok to be emotional. It’s ok to say ‘I love you’ to other men. It’s ok to talk about your feelings. And he taught us all that while at the same time being a hard-nosed football coach.”
5. His “trust, commit, care” bracelet at Seymour HS – and the powerful story of Coach Molle sharing his own bracelet with Gunnar. “He’ll literally give you the shirt off his back.”
6. Coach Molle being the first person Gunnar called after his brother passed away.
7. “The thing about your teammates is that they become your brothers.”
8. Playing football in “small town America.”
9. How family helped him throughout his sports journey.
10. “The person who has had the biggest influence on my life and on my sports journey is definitely my mother. My mother is my hero.”
11. His mother always ensuring that he got what he needed to be successful in sports. “No matter what was going on, she was always there to support me.”
12. The poem Gunnar shared with the team at one point during the season: The Station by Robert Hastings.
13. Gunnar’s football dreams as a 17-year old…and how some of those dreams did not come to realization.
14. Changing his definition of success in football: Sharing ownership in the team’s success.
15. “The relationships I had with teammates is what mattered most with me.”
16. “Imposter syndrome” in college.
17. Learning to live more in the moment.
18. “I didn’t get the stadiums full of people chanting my name, but I still had to find something to enjoy about that experience.”
19. When his career had just ended … and the moments right after that Rose Bowl defeat.
20. What Gunnar is doing now…and what he aspires to do in the future.
21. Learning to enjoy school during a time when he was injured.
22. Would he do it all again?