

The Vital Center
The Niskanen Center
Making sense of the post-Trump political landscape…
Both the Republican and Democratic parties are struggling to defend the political center against illiberal extremes. America must put forward policies that can reverse our political and governmental dysfunction, advance the social welfare of all citizens, combat climate change, and confront the other forces that threaten our common interests.
The podcast focuses on current politics seen in the context of our nation’s history and the personal biographies of the participants. It will highlight the policy initiatives of non-partisan think tanks and institutions, while drawing upon current academic scholarship and political literature from years past — including Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr.’s 1949 classic “The Vital Center.”
Both the Republican and Democratic parties are struggling to defend the political center against illiberal extremes. America must put forward policies that can reverse our political and governmental dysfunction, advance the social welfare of all citizens, combat climate change, and confront the other forces that threaten our common interests.
The podcast focuses on current politics seen in the context of our nation’s history and the personal biographies of the participants. It will highlight the policy initiatives of non-partisan think tanks and institutions, while drawing upon current academic scholarship and political literature from years past — including Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr.’s 1949 classic “The Vital Center.”
Episodes
Mentioned books

Sep 29, 2021 • 1h 17min
How to confront the growing threat to American democracy, with Tom Nichols
In September 1787, an onlooker is said to have asked Benjamin Franklin what kind of government he and the other delegates to the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia’s Independence Hall had given the United States. “A republic,” he replied, “if you can keep it.” Can we still keep it? That’s the question at the heart of Tom Nichols’ provocative new book Our Own Worst Enemy: The Assault from Within on Modern Democracy. Nichols, a professor at the United States Naval College, joins Geoff Kabaservice to discuss how responsibility for our eroding democracy ultimately rests with America’s citizens themselves.
Nichols ticks off the factors that, in his view, have made American democracy increasingly unsustainable: citizens’ willingness to embrace illiberalism and conspiracy theories, the ingrained culture of complaint and its corresponding neglect of civic virtues and civic responsibilities, the degradation of public life and public service, and the social atomization that accompanies the spread of social media. At the same time, he cautions against the dangers of nostalgia for a bygone era of American greatness that never really existed, at least not as many Americans choose to selectively remember it. And while Nichols worries about the ways that the dystopic novels Brave New World and 1984 are coming to fruition in today’s America, he also offers hope that Americans can bridge a widening civil-military gap and shore up the foundations of democracy through collective action.
Nichols quotes Abraham Lincoln’s warning that “If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.” The threat to American democracy over the next few years, in his view, comes not only from populist Republicans' inclinations toward authoritarianism but from Democrats’ failure to respond seriously to the reality that “we are in an existential crisis of government that requires an emergency response from a broad coalition of pro-democracy voters.” His message comes as a rallying cry to both center-left and center-right to recognize the dangers that confront us and respond accordingly.
Photo by Samuel Branch on Unsplash.

Sep 15, 2021 • 1h 3min
How to Bridge Our Divides and Find Our Shared American Identity, with Phillipa Hughes
In this era of deepening polarization and intensifying tribalization, Americans have fewer and fewer contacts and communication across partisan lines. Philippa Hughes is a Washington, D.C.-based social sculptor and creative strategist who has long attempted to bridge our divisions by bringing people together for meaningful conversations about art and our shared American identity.
But she has discovered that finding common ground among people from different backgrounds and perspectives is increasingly difficult as our cultural and political wars intensify. Art can divide us as well as emphasize our common humanity, and Philippa has experienced difficulties even in communicating with her own family — including with a cousin who headed ICE under Trump.
Join us as we discuss Philippa Hughes’ “Looking for America” project, her thoughts on social media and the epidemic of loneliness, and efforts by individuals and cultural institutions to shore up our eroding social infrastructure.

Sep 1, 2021 • 1h 5min
Can America Untangle Itself from Red Tape? (With Philip K. Howard)
Red tape rules America. Philip K. Howard joins Geoff Kabaservice to discuss how thousands of nonsensical laws hamper any good the government can do. Years-long environmental review harms the environment because it means that infrastructure isn’t updated. Regulations intended to protect people destroy small businesses
And America isn’t about to change because partisanship encourages the tangled web of inefficiency. Democrats and Republicans refuse to work together to craft meaningful policies and break down harmful regulations. Republicans seem to be driven by the policies that line their pockets rather than sensible reforms that align with conservative principles. And Democrats, while professing to be interested in helping minorities, conserving the environment, etc., often jump straight into government expansion without addressing the myriad of inefficiencies that come with it.
Can America untangle itself from the red tape and break out of its partisan gridlock?

Aug 18, 2021 • 1h 11min
The Role of the Corporate Elite in Politics, with Mark Mizruchi
What accounts for the increasing extremism of the Republican Party, and the polarization that has resulted from it? It at least partly stems from what many may view as an unlikely source: a decline in leadership by large American corporations, a group Mark Mizruchi refers to as the American corporate elite. Here, Mizruchi joins Geoff Kabaservice to provide a detailed history of the role of the corporate elite in stabilizing American politics, and how elites have gradually abdicated that role.

Aug 4, 2021 • 1h 6min
The Roots of Reactionary Conservatism, with Laura K. Field
Laura K. Field’s work in political theory didn’t used to focus on today’s political arena, but when prominent conservative intellectuals started backing the authoritarian, populist messages of Donald Trump in 2016, she began looking into the intellectual roots of conservative thinkers. She joins Geoff Kabaservice today to discuss how today’s “reactionary conservatives” have rejected liberal democratic principles (after mischaracterizing the values of liberal democracy), and breaks down how they’ve combined the ideas of Aristotle, Leo Strauss, and others, as well as a scepticism of Democratic institutions to develop the line of thinking that characterizes the Intellectual Right today.

Jul 22, 2021 • 1h 12min
What's behind the illiberal attacks on our institutions and how to fight back, with Jonathan Rauch
In this episode of The Vital Center, host Geoffrey Kabaservice and Jonathan Rauch discuss the "deliberate, sustained, sophisticated, and very effective attack on the system we rely on to make and obtain knowledge" in our democracy. Fighting back against disinformation involves more than throwing up our hands and wishing it never happened. We have to understand why the attacks on our institutions, our systems of knowing things, and our democratic way of life are working. "We have to understand this as an attack by identifiable people and organizations for power and for profit, and then we have to rally and push back really hard," says Rauch. Today's episode gets to the root of what's causing these illiberal attacks on truth, facts, and knowledge, and what we can do to stop them.

Jun 9, 2021 • 1h 15min
Moderate Conservatism as a Way to Protect Pre-modern Institutions, with R.R. Reno
R.R. “Rusty” Reno is the editor of First Things, an ecumenical and conservative religious journal that seeks to advance what it calls a religiously informed public for the ordering of society. In this episode, Reno joins Geoff Kabaservice to discuss his book “Return of the Strong Gods: Nationalism, Populism, and the Future of the West,” religion, ideological passion, and the way forward for American politics.
“So how do we get through this current rough patch in our politics? There's no guarantee we will. Partly we need good leadership, a little bit of luck.”

May 26, 2021 • 49min
The Case for a Moderate Third Party, with Chris Vance
Political veteran Chris Vance joins host Geoff Kabaservice to offer some insight into his time in the Washington state Republican Party - how they won elections on a local level, what role moderate ideas played in winning elections, and how everything changed once Trump became the Republican nominee for President in 2016. Concerned by the ideological trends in the party and the demand that no Republican criticize Trump, Vance has become an advocate for third party. He explains why the party seemingly changed so quickly with the nomination of Trump, and why he does not believe that moderate Republicans can continue in either the Republican or Democratic parties. As for the big question, "Is a third party viable," Vance believes that it is.

May 12, 2021 • 1h 12min
How to Fix Our Political Parties, with Rob Saldin
Liz Cheney has been ousted from the Republican Party...for speaking the truth about election results. Anyone Republican who opposed Trump is also on thin ice, and effectively must worry about being ousted for their views. And when it comes to passing good policy, Democrats don't have all the answers (or the majorities needed to pass legislation) either. Political scientist Rob Saldin makes the case that American democracy requires two healthy parties and lays out a roadmap that would enable both parties to function better and make space for all voters. He and Geoffrey Kabaservice discuss:
- Why moderate factions within each party are better and more realistic than hoping for a third party.
- What caused the Republican Party to seemingly lose all interest in governing.
- How nationalization of news and issues has impacted party agendas, to the detriment of every day Americans.
- Why Democrats should care about winning in rural areas, and how they can do so without compromising their national party platforms.

Apr 28, 2021 • 1h 10min
How Democrats Lost the Working Class, with Matt Karp
As Republicans embraced anti-elitism under Trump, Democrats reacted by embracing the values of the upper-middle class.
The result, according to historian Matt Karp is a party that often - intentionally or unintentionally - distances itself from the working class, which it used to champion. The professional class has made all opposition the "other," embracing a partisan identity politics that says "if you're not with us, you're against us."
But pushback is coming from both the right and the left. Karp discusses how the mainstream media has mischaracterized what Bernie Sanders is trying to do, and then digs deep into his historical research to provide analogies from the past that explain the present moment.