

The Vital Center
The Niskanen Center
Making sense of the post-Trump political landscape…
Both the Republican and Democratic parties are struggling to defend the political center against illiberal extremes. America must put forward policies that can reverse our political and governmental dysfunction, advance the social welfare of all citizens, combat climate change, and confront the other forces that threaten our common interests.
The podcast focuses on current politics seen in the context of our nation’s history and the personal biographies of the participants. It will highlight the policy initiatives of non-partisan think tanks and institutions, while drawing upon current academic scholarship and political literature from years past — including Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr.’s 1949 classic “The Vital Center.”
Both the Republican and Democratic parties are struggling to defend the political center against illiberal extremes. America must put forward policies that can reverse our political and governmental dysfunction, advance the social welfare of all citizens, combat climate change, and confront the other forces that threaten our common interests.
The podcast focuses on current politics seen in the context of our nation’s history and the personal biographies of the participants. It will highlight the policy initiatives of non-partisan think tanks and institutions, while drawing upon current academic scholarship and political literature from years past — including Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr.’s 1949 classic “The Vital Center.”
Episodes
Mentioned books

Oct 27, 2021 • 1h 17min
The Last Liberal Republican President, with John R. Price
Richard Nixon’s legacy will be forever tarnished by the Watergate scandal that led him to become the first and only U.S. president to resign from office. But Nixon was also a political mastermind whose impact continues to resound in both domestic and world politics.
John R. Price served on the domestic policy side of the first Nixon administration, eventually becoming Special Assistant to the President for Urban Affairs. He has written about his experience in a compelling new memoir and history, The Last Liberal Republican: An Insider’s Perspective on Nixon’s Surprising Social Policy. In this interview, Price talks about his background as one of the founding memoirs of the Ripon Society (a moderate Republican activist group in the 1960s), his efforts on behalf of progressive Republicans like Nelson Rockefeller and Jacob Javits, and his work in the Nixon administration for the eminent Harvard sociologist (and later U.S. Senator) Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
Price describes his efforts with Moynihan and Nixon to create the Family Assistance Plan, a far-reaching welfare proposal that would have implemented a negative income tax for households with working parents. He makes the case that Nixon was in many ways a liberal — indeed the last liberal Republican president — and that his social welfare program, if it had passed Congress, would have put the country on a different and better trajectory.
Photo by Aaron Burden on Unsplash

Oct 13, 2021 • 1h 3min
Dark Days in Washington, with A.B. Stoddard
A. B. Stoddard is one of the country's sharpest and best informed political commentators. A former congressional reporter and producer of ABC World News Tonight, as well as a current columnist for RealClearPolitics, she has seen politics from the inside and up close since the 1990s. And when she warns that both parties, and the country, are in a dark place as the 2022 and 2024 elections approach, we should listen.
In this interview, A. B. Stoddard talks about her experiences as a woman in the male-dominated news business, her view of how Congress has slid into dysfunction in recent decades, and her assessment of how Donald Trump was able to take over the Republican Party and jettison its loyalty to Ronald Reagan and his once-revered brand of conservatism. She analyzes the Democrats' stumbles in their attempts to pass the Bipartisan Infrastructure Framework and the Build Back Better Plan, the tensions between the party's moderate and progressive factions, and the breakdown of the Democratic establishment's control over the legislative process. She also speculates about why the Democratic leadership has failed to grapple with the growing threat of election-nullification efforts by state Republican legislatures and the growing potential for political violence in upcoming elections.
Photo by Chris Grafton on Unsplash

Sep 29, 2021 • 1h 17min
How to confront the growing threat to American democracy, with Tom Nichols
In September 1787, an onlooker is said to have asked Benjamin Franklin what kind of government he and the other delegates to the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia’s Independence Hall had given the United States. “A republic,” he replied, “if you can keep it.” Can we still keep it? That’s the question at the heart of Tom Nichols’ provocative new book Our Own Worst Enemy: The Assault from Within on Modern Democracy. Nichols, a professor at the United States Naval College, joins Geoff Kabaservice to discuss how responsibility for our eroding democracy ultimately rests with America’s citizens themselves.
Nichols ticks off the factors that, in his view, have made American democracy increasingly unsustainable: citizens’ willingness to embrace illiberalism and conspiracy theories, the ingrained culture of complaint and its corresponding neglect of civic virtues and civic responsibilities, the degradation of public life and public service, and the social atomization that accompanies the spread of social media. At the same time, he cautions against the dangers of nostalgia for a bygone era of American greatness that never really existed, at least not as many Americans choose to selectively remember it. And while Nichols worries about the ways that the dystopic novels Brave New World and 1984 are coming to fruition in today’s America, he also offers hope that Americans can bridge a widening civil-military gap and shore up the foundations of democracy through collective action.
Nichols quotes Abraham Lincoln’s warning that “If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.” The threat to American democracy over the next few years, in his view, comes not only from populist Republicans' inclinations toward authoritarianism but from Democrats’ failure to respond seriously to the reality that “we are in an existential crisis of government that requires an emergency response from a broad coalition of pro-democracy voters.” His message comes as a rallying cry to both center-left and center-right to recognize the dangers that confront us and respond accordingly.
Photo by Samuel Branch on Unsplash.

Sep 15, 2021 • 1h 3min
How to Bridge Our Divides and Find Our Shared American Identity, with Phillipa Hughes
In this era of deepening polarization and intensifying tribalization, Americans have fewer and fewer contacts and communication across partisan lines. Philippa Hughes is a Washington, D.C.-based social sculptor and creative strategist who has long attempted to bridge our divisions by bringing people together for meaningful conversations about art and our shared American identity.
But she has discovered that finding common ground among people from different backgrounds and perspectives is increasingly difficult as our cultural and political wars intensify. Art can divide us as well as emphasize our common humanity, and Philippa has experienced difficulties even in communicating with her own family — including with a cousin who headed ICE under Trump.
Join us as we discuss Philippa Hughes’ “Looking for America” project, her thoughts on social media and the epidemic of loneliness, and efforts by individuals and cultural institutions to shore up our eroding social infrastructure.

Sep 1, 2021 • 1h 5min
Can America Untangle Itself from Red Tape? (With Philip K. Howard)
Red tape rules America. Philip K. Howard joins Geoff Kabaservice to discuss how thousands of nonsensical laws hamper any good the government can do. Years-long environmental review harms the environment because it means that infrastructure isn’t updated. Regulations intended to protect people destroy small businesses
And America isn’t about to change because partisanship encourages the tangled web of inefficiency. Democrats and Republicans refuse to work together to craft meaningful policies and break down harmful regulations. Republicans seem to be driven by the policies that line their pockets rather than sensible reforms that align with conservative principles. And Democrats, while professing to be interested in helping minorities, conserving the environment, etc., often jump straight into government expansion without addressing the myriad of inefficiencies that come with it.
Can America untangle itself from the red tape and break out of its partisan gridlock?

Aug 18, 2021 • 1h 11min
The Role of the Corporate Elite in Politics, with Mark Mizruchi
What accounts for the increasing extremism of the Republican Party, and the polarization that has resulted from it? It at least partly stems from what many may view as an unlikely source: a decline in leadership by large American corporations, a group Mark Mizruchi refers to as the American corporate elite. Here, Mizruchi joins Geoff Kabaservice to provide a detailed history of the role of the corporate elite in stabilizing American politics, and how elites have gradually abdicated that role.

Aug 4, 2021 • 1h 6min
The Roots of Reactionary Conservatism, with Laura K. Field
Laura K. Field’s work in political theory didn’t used to focus on today’s political arena, but when prominent conservative intellectuals started backing the authoritarian, populist messages of Donald Trump in 2016, she began looking into the intellectual roots of conservative thinkers. She joins Geoff Kabaservice today to discuss how today’s “reactionary conservatives” have rejected liberal democratic principles (after mischaracterizing the values of liberal democracy), and breaks down how they’ve combined the ideas of Aristotle, Leo Strauss, and others, as well as a scepticism of Democratic institutions to develop the line of thinking that characterizes the Intellectual Right today.

Jul 22, 2021 • 1h 12min
What's behind the illiberal attacks on our institutions and how to fight back, with Jonathan Rauch
In this episode of The Vital Center, host Geoffrey Kabaservice and Jonathan Rauch discuss the "deliberate, sustained, sophisticated, and very effective attack on the system we rely on to make and obtain knowledge" in our democracy. Fighting back against disinformation involves more than throwing up our hands and wishing it never happened. We have to understand why the attacks on our institutions, our systems of knowing things, and our democratic way of life are working. "We have to understand this as an attack by identifiable people and organizations for power and for profit, and then we have to rally and push back really hard," says Rauch. Today's episode gets to the root of what's causing these illiberal attacks on truth, facts, and knowledge, and what we can do to stop them.

Jun 9, 2021 • 1h 15min
Moderate Conservatism as a Way to Protect Pre-modern Institutions, with R.R. Reno
R.R. “Rusty” Reno is the editor of First Things, an ecumenical and conservative religious journal that seeks to advance what it calls a religiously informed public for the ordering of society. In this episode, Reno joins Geoff Kabaservice to discuss his book “Return of the Strong Gods: Nationalism, Populism, and the Future of the West,” religion, ideological passion, and the way forward for American politics.
“So how do we get through this current rough patch in our politics? There's no guarantee we will. Partly we need good leadership, a little bit of luck.”

May 26, 2021 • 49min
The Case for a Moderate Third Party, with Chris Vance
Political veteran Chris Vance joins host Geoff Kabaservice to offer some insight into his time in the Washington state Republican Party - how they won elections on a local level, what role moderate ideas played in winning elections, and how everything changed once Trump became the Republican nominee for President in 2016. Concerned by the ideological trends in the party and the demand that no Republican criticize Trump, Vance has become an advocate for third party. He explains why the party seemingly changed so quickly with the nomination of Trump, and why he does not believe that moderate Republicans can continue in either the Republican or Democratic parties. As for the big question, "Is a third party viable," Vance believes that it is.