The CEO Project Podcast

Today we have an amazing human being and an incredible leader. We have Kim (KC) she'll tell you what that means. Later Kim, who's a retired Air Force colonel, served in the Air Force for more than 24 years as a fighter pilot and a senior military leader, she's flown more than a hundred combat missions protecting troops on the ground both in both Iraq and Afghanistan. As a senior military leader, Kim has led hundreds of airmen at home and abroad in deployed locations around the world. Most recently, Kim served as a director of the Center of Character and Leadership Development at the Air Force Academy. Kim is now Managing Director of Victory Strategies, where she's the leadership coach and keynote speaker. She's also the author of Flying in the Face of Fear, Lessons on Leading with Courage. Jim: You've been everywhere. You've done everything that the Air Force had to offer. Why did you leave? You don't have to have to, right? So why did you say it was time to hang it up? Kim: I tried to leave three times, so I figured the third time was a charm. But one of my final jobs in the Air Force before I moved to the Air Force Academy, I was a group commander responsible for about a thousand people throughout Central America, South America the Caribbean, a lot of travel, a lot of time away from home. I absolutely loved connecting with my team, getting out and meeting them and walking around, getting to know them. But my husband was also an active duty Air Force officer at the time. He was responsible for the entire base down in Tucson. We also have two boys who happened to be now 10 and 14, but at the time were one and five. And it was a lot. We came to realize that our priorities were changing, the pressures were changing, the stress levels were changing, and we decided it was time to do something different where we were a little bit more in control of our schedules. I attempted to retire then and the Air Force asked if I would stay and become an instructor at the Air Force Academy. Which to me, coming back was home for me. That's where I started my career. And so, coming back there was a great opportunity to help influence the next generation of leaders. Then my husband and I retired at the same time, same ceremony, but it was really a family decision more than anything. And resetting our priorities and our boundaries as well. My passion and my purpose were really initially flying A10, supporting our troops on the ground. That changed over time as I got to lead teams. But then my passion and purpose, changed and I was able to put all my effort and energy and passion into leading the next generation of our airmen, of our leaders of our aviators. And that to me had value, and I was able to find my new way. Jim: We help people get better as leaders. Just for a minute, we must touch on the A10 though, it's too cool an aircraft not to talk about for a minute or two before we dive into the other stuff. So why A10s and what was your view on it? Kim: I realized early on during my days at pilot training, I knew I wanted to be a fighter pilot.I knew from the fifth grade on I was going to be a fighter pilot. I didn't know what airplane I wanted to fly. And then I got to pilot training, and I realized that I really enjoyed low-level flying. It was just fun. It was exciting. It was exciting to fly really close to another airplane. And then I started talking to other pilots about what they liked about their missions. There was something unique. They were so passionate about supporting our troops on the ground, knowing that what they did every day made a difference and helping someone get home safely to their families. That is a mission I can get on board with. And that was my choice to go fly the A10. Jim: For those of you that don't know the A10, it's low-level. It's basically a gigantic cannon with wings, and it's designed to support the troops by clearing the way for them and suppressing other opposing forces. It is one of the most feared aircraft in the arsenal of the United States of America by any opposing force. But you didn't make it home one time. Kim: It happened on April 7th, 2003. So we're almost at the 20-year anniversary. That's part of the reason that I love the A10, why I'm passionate about the A10 was that it helped get me home safely. And I happened to be over Bagdad providing support to our troops on the ground when my airplane was hit with a surface tear missile. I remember that moment; it was such a loud boom and bright red-orange flash as this fireball envelops my aircraft. And then it just dumped over, and I could see Bagdad below. And I think it was just instinct. I pulled back on my control stick and absolutely nothing happened. It was not responding to any of my control inputs. And I remember thinking, I do not want to eject. I mean, that's the last thing I want to do is eject over Baghdad. And I really fell back on my training and all the preparation that I had done quickly trying to figure out what was going on in my aircraft. And I've got lights flashing everywhere. I've got a master caution panel that's lit up like a Christmas tree. I mean, it was slightly overwhelming, but I had to focus on what was most important. And that is, how do I get this airplane under control? I quickly realized that it has lost all hydraulics. They dumped out when the missile hit the airplane. And so at this point, I know I either eject or I try to get the airplane in our backup emergency system. And thankfully I flipped that switch. The airplane worked exactly as advertised, and I was able to slowly pull the aircraft and, and get away from Baghdad. And that was for me, the first moment I felt like I was going to make it out of there alive. I flew the airplane back for an hour. I was able to get it on the ground which was obviously a huge feeling of relief. And let's say there was a lot of adrenaline in that moment. And the next day, instead of being tasked with a normal mission, I was tasked with combat search and rescue alert, which is another mission we fly, where if an aviator is shot down, then we go and do everything we can to rescue them. Normally when we're on alert, we sleep, we rest, you know, it's, it's downtime because this, this doesn't happen often, but this was April 8th, the alarm sounded, it wasn't a drill. An A10 pilot had been shot down right in Baghdad, right. Where I had escaped my own shootdown. And for me, it was just that those guys were there for me the day before. I was going to do the same for this pilot. We raced out to the Jets, we were start gathering information, and we make an immediate takeoff. I just didn't have time to think about it. It was just, how do we get there as quickly as we can? And thankfully, he was very lucky he got picked up by friendly ground troops. So we only made it about 30 minutes into Iraq. But wow, you know, it was the whole idea that that's what we do for teammates. Unfortunately, that airplane never flew again. I was able to land it, but it was so badly damaged that they assessed that they couldn't repair it in the location that it was. So they decided that maintenance took every piece and part that they could out of it. But they also cut a piece of the back tail section for me that had the tail number on it. And it's been with me for 20 years. It's hung in every Air Force office I've had. But I recently retired and it held a place actually back behind me here. And this Smithsonian is doing a new exhibit on modern military aviation. They asked if I had anything, and I thought, what better way Yeah. To share the story than that tail flash. So I delivered it on Tuesday to the Smithsonian in Washington DC It will be there in a new exhibit. And now the story and the lessons learned, which are most important to me, can be told to the next generation. Jim: So let's move over to leadership. You move from sort of being an individual contributor in the form of a pilot to leading people. And now you've transitioned to teaching people how to lead people. So let's just roll all the way back and if you had to characterize your leadership approach, what would be the elements of your leadership approach, the teachable elements of your leadership approach? Kim: Well, I think part of the reason that I wrote my new book, I was trying to capture all of these experiences and lessons. And what I realized for me is that over the course of my career, I have experienced fear. I have experienced being nervous or stressed about flying airplanes, and about leading teams. And to me, all it came down to was those feelings, those things are normal. They happen. It is all about what you do in the moment. It is about leading with courage. And so for me, this whole idea of courageous leadership and leading with courage and how can you make those hard decisions? How can you make decisions when you don't have perfect information? How can you have the tough conversations that none of us like to have, but are essential and necessary? How do you hold yourself and other people accountable? How do you admit mistakes when it's really uncomfortable to do so? You know, how do you get out and connect with your team? It all comes down to me having the courage to do that, to do the hard things, to make those connections, and to build an environment of trust. So the short answer is, it's all about leading with courage. For lessons from Kim, and to learn what her call signal KC stands for, listen to the complete podcast on leading with courage.

Organizational capacity is the capability of the people in your business to get stuff done. In this episode of The Lazy CEO Podcast, Jim, Schleckser, host and CEO of The CEO Project, talk about Organizational Capacity. Basically, if you have a pile of work, size of X, you have X capability to get that work done. The raw capacity to execute and the capability to execute are really two things. We will get into each of these in a little bit. One is just how many people you have in the company. More people means more work, mostly, although not always. The second is the capability of the people in your organization to take on work, their ability to do stuff for you and not get their heads all stressed out and crazy. So the capability to people is really important as well. So first, let's talk about is just as you're growing your business, people do go through a cycle of growth emotions. There are two researchers by the name of Kelly and Connor that came up with what's called this emotional cycle of change model. When you begin a change and, and growth is change, as you are growing your business, things are changing. How much work I have to do, the scope of my job, my title, and the way we do things are changing all the time. So the first stage that Kelly and Connor thought people went through, is uninformed optimism. Over time, as we begin to make the change, we begin to go down into the valley of despair. And the first stage of the valley of despair is uninformed, or informed pessimism. In other words, I've now begun to see this and it's ugly and it's messy and it's confusing and it's stressful and this is not working. That's informed pessimism because I've now gathered enough data to know it's not going to work. They can possibly check out mentally. They're no longer engaged, they're no longer participating, and they're no longer giving their best effort. And checking out privately then can lead to checking out publicly. And this is where your turnover happens. In other words, during informed pessimism is when people check out your organization, that's when your turnover happens. So you have to be really attentive to this and be giving people signals that things are going to work out. Then they move to what they call hopeful realism. We thought it was going to be perfect before when we were in uninformed optimism. We are now hopeful, hopeful realism, it's going to be okay. It's better than it was, it's not perfect, but that's okay. And then stage four informed optimism. It turned out it's as about as good as we thought it was going to be awesome. And then completion. So that cycle, everybody goes through and, a related rule called Cantor's Law, another researcher that says everything can look like a failure in the middle. As you're going through change, realize that in the middle, no matter how successful it is in the future, it looks like a failure in the middle. Country Club vs Stress City Two triangles basically stacked on top of each other. When you have more organizational capacity to execute than you do work, I call that country club. We're kind of chill, we're hanging out, and we have stuff to do, but plenty of time to have coffee and talk about the football pool. Now, to the other side, which is we've got more work to do than we do have the organizational capacity to execute. That's stress city. And as leaders, we're always wiggling around that middle line. Sometimes we're in country clubs, sometimes we're in stress city. And actually, I have to say most organizations are always in stress city. The only question is how close do they get to the line? Do we have the right amount of capacity, people, and talent versus the amount of work we've got. And the signals you'll hear are stress and work-life balance. Now you have to be careful who you're listening to because of that standard distribution. There will people be people that always chirp on that issue. Doesn't matter how much work there is, there will be others that never say a word. Buy, Build, or Borrow Let's say you've diagnosed your organization. We've got more work than we can handle. And you'll probably know when this exists. You have a couple of options. Buy or build or borrow. Those are your options. Borrow, I'll just talk about it quickly. That's finding a third-party staffing company that can help you or a partner that can help you. But fundamentally we've got to build or buy. I'm going to hire somebody in the organization to increase my organizational capacity. When you do this, you want to tick two boxes. One is particularly when you're growing, one is you need the person in the job, right as defined. So that's an increased organization, organizational capacity just because there's a human in position. But more than that, you need to hire ahead of your curve. If you're a growing organization, you're 20 million or 40 million or a hundred million or 200 million and you're underway to double that number. If I hire somebody that is just competent to do the job, no more just able to do the job, but fully competent as I double, they are going to go to incompetency potentially unless they develop, which I'll talk about in a minute. And so ideally you hire somebody who's over your current capability, over your current size. If you're 40, they've done it at a hundred. If you're a hundred, they've done it at 200. They already know what it looks like where you are going. For more about organizational capacity, listen to the full episode of The Lazy CEO Podcast. Resources mentioned in this episode: Jim Schleckser on LinkedIn The CEO Project Great Ceos Are Lazy: How Exceptional Ceos Do More in Less Time by Jim Schleckser Sponsor for this episode… This episode is brought to you by The CEO Project. The CEO Project is a business advisory group that brings high-caliber, accomplished CEOs together. Our team of skilled advisors is comprised of current and former CEOs who have run both public and private sector companies across multiple industries. With our experience and expertise, we guide hundreds of high-performing CEOs through a disciplined approach that resolves constraints and improves critical decisions. The CEO Project has helped high-performing, large enterprise CEOs with annual revenues ranging from $20M to over $2 billion to drive growth and achieve optimal outcomes. If you are an experienced CEO looking to grow your company, visit www.theCEOProject.com.

In this episode of The Lazy CEO Podcast, Jim Schleckser, host and CEO of The CEO Project, interviews Karin Hurt, CEO of Let's Grow Leaders about innovation and conflict in the workplace. Jim Schleckser: Welcome Karin, share with us a little bit about your work with Verizon as well as what you do now with Let's Grow Leaders. Karin Hurt: I learned so many things from Verizon and, in Courageous Cultures, we talk about having the need for clarity, real clarity in your culture, clarity about where you're headed, clarity around setting clear expectations all the way through, and curiosity showing up and being curious and innovative. I would say at Verizon, I learned all about the clarity thing. I learned a lot through the experimentation of leading large teams in times of uncertainty. I led a 2200-person sales team at the moment that AT&T gets exclusive rights to the iPhone, and I got this sales team that has nothing to sell. How do you keep people motivated during a time like that? How do you get results? How do you pivot and look for bright starts and bring a large team along with you? I also learned about what not to do. You can learn as much about leadership from following a bad boss as a good boss. And although I had a number of great bosses, I also had some doozies. I really paid a lot of attention to what is the impact that negative toxic leadership is having. What is the impact on results? What is the impact on relationships? What is the impact on growing future leaders? Overall fantastic experience learned so much from so many mentors and I also learned a little bit about what not to do too. Jim Schleckser: You talk about innovation coming from what I would consider a very high rule-density environment. Talk us through your model on innovation. Karin Hurt: You need to start where you aren't if you're looking for innovation. You can have high clarity, what you're calling rule dense environment. And when you have that, it's more difficult for people to innovate. But if you've got people, everyone is innovating and they don't know what they're innovating towards, then you will lack the right kind of innovation. You may have a lot of ideas, but you may not have the kind of ideas that you can use. And so we talk about, you need to be very clear about two things, 1) that you really want innovation, that you want people's ideas and 2) you are clear about where you're headed strategically so that people can get it. And then you need to show up curious. And after you've had that clarity, then that's when you're teaching people how to think critically, position their ideas, look around corners, and all of those innovative things. And if you have one without the other, you're going to have a challenge. We take people through a process where you begin with clarity, and then we teach them how to, "own the ugly", look at things differently from different perspectives, show their ideas, and give away to pitch your ideas in very, very practical ways. Jim Schleckser: One of the things you talk about is the roles that people fulfill in this ecosystem - micro innovators, problem solvers, and customer advocates. Help me understand how those three roles work together. Karin Hurt: Micro innovators, one of the things that we talk about is there are a lot of great strategies but how do you create something that's going to completely change the game? And that's innovation with a capital I. Where we really focus is how do you get micro innovations, people coming to work every single day saying, how can we do this step differently? Do we really need this meeting? Is there an alternative way to get there? In our research, 67% said their manager operates around the notion of this is the way we've always done it. That's not encouraging micro innovation versus the leader who comes and asks a courageous question and said, what is one way we could change this process to be more impactful for our clients? Then when we talk about customer advocates, that's really empowering the people at the front. How do I advocate for the customer and their needs? And how can I innovate on behalf of the customer? Our favorite definition of culture is from Seth Godin. People like us do things like this. You're helping to amplify the voice of your customer. Problem solvers, that's equipping people with practical tools and techniques to solve problems. And there's just not a lot of training out there for problem-solving. We'll find that when we're doing discovery for our leadership development programs. And there's a huge appetite for that. Jim Schleckser: Interesting. You know there's another whole camp in this sort of innovation space. They call them weak signals. It's funny how you identified, customer advocates and problem solvers. Those would be the kind of people that would pick up weak signals - little things that aren't quite right. And, then they talk about catalyzing. There's a guy named Mintzberg who talks about catalyzing them into something bigger because that little weak signal if we blow on the spark, we can turn into a fire. Karin Hurt: It's interesting because we are neck deep in our next research for our book - World Workplace Conflict and Collaboration Survey. And one of the things that we are finding is there is an exact bell curve of people who are saying, Hey, you know what? There is less conflict than we had before. And some say, on the other extreme, there is way more conflict than we've had before. And as we peel underneath, this has so much to do with innovation because the people who are saying there's less conflict, are not talking to people very much, they are working from home in their own bubbles. And if you have that happening, there may be less conflict negative, but you are not also having the good kind of conflict where, hey, I have an idea and you have an idea and let's really talk about what's going to be best for our customer in this scenario. And, and having those constructive conversations. In our research so far, what's coming as the impact of conflict? 64% are saying more stress, 34% are saying more turnover. And 31% are saying less productivity. So that's the bad kind of conflict, right? If you have conflicts, that's creating that level of stress. And that's what people, a lot of people think of when they think of conflict, right? What they're talking about there is primarily interpersonal conflict, right? And when we ask people why- I left my toxic environment. So, they just ran away from the conflict. The reason we think this work is so important is particularly now, in an uncertain environment where everything is so turbulent and rapidly changing, you have to have all that innovation. And you are not going to do that if you are running away from important conversations. So, we talk about four areas starting with connection. For more of Jim and Karin's conversation and to learn the 4 C's of conflict management, listen to the full episode of The Lazy CEO Podcast.

Jim Schleckser, CEO of The CEO Project and host of The Lazy CEO Podcast, sits down with a fun guest, a hall-of-fame speaker who has had multiple bestselling books, Jay Bearer. Jim Schleckser: What are the five things that we need to be smart about in engaging with marketing to ask the right questions as CEOs? Jay Baer: I think partially because it's obviously the fastest growing and all around us now, and so transformative, we tend to think that digital is good just because it's digital. As a CEO, I would question that assumption. So often the coin of the realm in digital is reach and awareness, and how many people saw your thing, or, and, and I guess my retort to that is to what end, right? Those are vanity metrics. We can't sell exposure, not at scale. And, so typically, what we try to advise CEOs to do is to say, okay, what desired action are we trying to create here? Is it net new customers? Is it an increase in customer purchase frequency? Is it average customer value on an annualized basis? Is it customer retention? Start with what we're trying to incentivize from a behavior standpoint and then, and then build upwards from there. Create a series of digital and many non-digital scenarios that allow that to happen. But the reality is that most digital strategists don't do that. They start with the caboose, not the engine. Then they try to gerrymander their way to the appropriate solution. And that's why so much digital strategy is inherently flawed. I've seen too many PowerPoint presentations from the marketing team about clicks and eyeballs, but how many dollars did this generate? And this is a great irony, from a CEO standpoint. Digital is so much more measurable incrementally than outdoor or print or television or radio. It's by far the easiest to understand the trajectory of success or lack thereof that you're experiencing. Yet, the crazy part is so many people don't take advantage of that. And obviously, it makes testing a lot easier as well, which as somebody who came up in the direct mail business, that's the holy grail. Jim Schleckser: What are the three metrics that you care about and why? Jay Baer: Depends on the project, depends on what kind of consumer behavior you're trying to incentivize. Ultimately it should helicopter back to whatever business success metric you're looking at. Could be sales, could be churn rate, could be new employee applications if you're trying to fix a staffing problem with digital. So when I ask that question of my marketers or my digital marketers, the good one will say, what's your business problem? And how are you going to measure, how are you going to know we're successful against that business problem? And then that's my metric right there. They are not going to tell you, you're going to tell them. Jim Schleckser: I saw you do a piece a while ago on and maybe you could talk about this on the customer journey and provide information at the point of need. Jay Baer: The reality is that we all come from an era where personal time and one-to-one or small group communication in person you know, over, over a video call et cetera, has been held up for many, many years, especially in B2B as the goal. So, if we can provide enough information to get them interested, we'll make sure a BDR or somebody qualifies this lead, and then we'll give them to a salesperson and then we'll have a sales conversation and eventually, they'll become customers that, that's sort of the historical process and it still works. But now what we find, especially amongst younger buyers millennials, and Gen Z, about half of them actually prefer a completely seller-free experience. They're like, just give me the stuff and I'll figure out what to buy and whether to buy it and which options to select. The exercise that I talk about a lot on stage is this. Grab a piece of paper and a pen, and I want you to write down the 25 questions that your customers have most often about your business, your products or services pre-purchase. Every CEO can do it. That's what they think about. Now, take a look at that list. How many of those questions can be answered by a prospect on your website within two clicks? And it's usually about four. We're making people work too hard to get the information they need. What if your customers could never talk to anybody at your company? What if you didn't have an email address? What if you didn't have a phone? What if you didn't have a chatbot? Could you still sell stuff? And if the answer is no, you should probably rethink that. Jim Schleckser: Let's talk about Word of Mouth as a strategy. Jay Baer: Word of mouth has been a customer acquisition strategy since the first caveman sold an arrowhead to another caveman. But only 1% of businesses have a defined and documented word-of-mouth strategy. We just take it for granted. Throughout modern business history, we've sold ourselves a lie. And the lie is that competency will create conversations and that if you just run a good business, people will naturally tell other people about you. That seems to make sense on paper, but it doesn't hold water in terms of actual human behavior. For you to introduce the topic of a business, a product, or a service to your friends and colleagues, something unexpected must happen. We don't talk about good; we talk about different, and this is why you almost never see three-star reviews. All your reviews are five-star or one-star. And so word of mouth works the same way. In my book, Talk Triggers, that's what we call it, it's an operational choice that you make in your business that is designed to create conversations. And it's not your core product or service, it's something else that you do differently, then people say, I didn't think that was going to happen. And that becomes the story that they tell their friends and colleagues. You have to give people a story. And it literally is a strategic execution of a playbook to create word of mouth. Most people just say it'll take care of itself and it will not. For more of Jim and Jay's conversation, examples of Talk Triggers, and how to create business growth through customer experience, listen to this episode of The Lazy CEO Podcast.

Welcome to Andrew Davis, a super creative guy, he came out of media, spent time with the Muppets had a digital marketing agency that he sold. And now what he does is he is primarily a speaker, so he gets in front of audiences, inspires them and educates them, and entertains them. He's spoken to our CEO group before and a couple of our clients as well. Andrew Davis: My focus today is helping people challenge the conventional business and marketing wisdom by really rethinking some of the things that we've always been taught and traveling around the world and teaching those to people and writing books. I got my start in the media business. I worked in television right out of college I worked for the Jim Henson Company which is where I learned how marketing and business really work, because the truth is, at the Jim Henson company, they really don't make much money on selling media properties. Selling Sesame Street as a nonprofit doesn't make any money. What makes money is creating content that people fall in love with and characters that people can't get enough of so that they can license all of those characters. It was a real education in the power of media to inspire people to buy things they didn't know they needed. And after that, I worked at a series of startups in the startup boom of the late 1990s. I started my own agency with a journalist friend of mine named Jim Costco in the early two thousands. Then we sold that in 2012. And since then, I've just been traveling the world and writing books, and kind of challenging myself to find out how things really work in the new world we live in. Jim Schleckser: Share with the audience what it means from your perspective to differentiate. Andrew Davis: We live in a world where being different is something that's really important and we tell people to be different all the time. We've got to look different. We've got to get people to notice us and get more awareness in the marketplace. But the truth is, in the last six years, I've spent a lot of time looking at what really differentiates you in the marketplace today. And looking and sounding different is great, but actually being different is the real true differentiator. So if you can create an experience that feels different for your clients that's where you can win over an industry. What happens is if you create a good client or customer experience, most of the brands that are successful in doing that start marketing that experience as the differentiator. Many people spend all this time saying we need more leads; we need more customers. We need to raise awareness to get more people in the door or onto the website to buy the stuff. And the truth is, if you have a bad customer experience, you're just shoving people through a bad experience. I really truly believe the way, to start transforming your business is to start with the very next customer you get and really rethink the experience by differentiating it from everybody else in the marketplace. Jim Schleckser: I love the idea of becoming an attractive force versus pushing this big heavy rock up the hill all the time. How do you recommend we start? Andrew Davis: Let me give you two just quick concepts that you just have to embrace to understand how what I call the loyalty loop works. So you first need to understand the moment of inspiration. The moment of inspiration is an instant in time that sends you on a journey you never expected. For example - to buy anything, it could be a car. You get your lease-end notification. That lease end letter that Nissan sends you is an instant in time that's going to send you on a journey to buy a new vehicle. That's a moment of inspiration. A moment of commitment is the instant that you trade money, data, or time, for information to support a cause or to buy a product or a service. The big change in the moment of commitment today is that we need to understand that sale. The sale isn't the only moment of commitment. If you fill out an online form, if set up a calendar appointment with someone, if you ask for a quote from someone as a consumer, you are trading data for an experience, and that data is worth something. If you understand those two concepts, just the moment of inspiration and the moment of commitment, what you want to try to do is build a real experience. For more examples and valuable insights into creating customer loyalty, listen to the full podcast.

This episode of The Lazy CEO Podcast is about creating advocacy. We have Heather Hansen, who is the CEO of Advocate to Win, and she is going to talk to us about advocating our positions and persuading people. Heather shares her background as a lawyer and how that has led to her expertise in persuasion and expertise. Heather defended doctors in medical malpractice cases. One of the things that made that job the hardest is that every single person in that courtroom was a patient. Everyone saw the case through a patient's eyes, and her job was to change their perspective and help them succeed in the case through the doctor's eyes. And that is the main job of an advocate. This led Heather to this practice of advocacy and teaching advocacy. What is Advocacy? Advocating is influencing, it's persuading, it's convincing, it's changing minds, it's changing hearts. It's helping people believe what you want them to believe, and it's turning other people into your advocates. The first question to ask is who is your jury? And CEOs have many juries. Their board is a jury at a particular time. They're stakeholders, their clients, their customers, and their team. But we have to know who the jury is so we know how to speak to them. Compassion, Curiosity, and Credibility Credibility is where we focus - the belief triangle. You want your jury to believe you. When you make a promise, you keep it. When you set expectations, you meet them, you want them to believe in you, and that you have the experience, the talent, and the capacity to do the thing you promise to do. And the part that most people forget is to believe that you can help them, that you understand their problem, their perspective, their point of view, and that you can help it. There are times, especially for CEOs, when you must knock down someone else's credibility or question someone else's credibility. How do you do that effectively, how do you use due diligence and look for inconsistencies to make decisions that are going to serve the people that you want to serve? TIP: Questions are magic. A great question can mean the difference between winning and losing a case. You can't prove it until you believe it. You have to have that energy of belief. It's one of the parts of credibility. It's energy and evidence. You have to have that energy of belief and then the evidence as well, in order to help your jury of clients, customers, stakeholders, and board members believe as well. Empathy vs Perspective Empathy is feeling what others feel and perspective is seeing what they see. And you must not necessarily feel what they feel. For example, in the courtroom, defendants are frustrated, angry, scared, and confused. If their lawyer feels those feelings, they are not of service to them. So the empathy piece isn't always imperative depending on the situation, the perspective piece, which is what you're really talking about, is the cognitive part. Seeing what they see is imperative. Seeing it from their perspective and owning it is a credibility multiplier. Use your perspective to own where there are problems and boost your credibility. Advocating for Yourself Here is an example - a woman came to the CEO to advocate for a change in their policy with respect to working at home and taking care of children. She was a very strong advocate. She had stories, she had evidence, she had the energy of belief and he listened to her and he decided that she was right. And this is even though she was advocating. Then once he made the change to the policy because she had advocated so well, she became his strongest advocate. She told everybody in the business, she told everybody outside of the business, you need to come work for this company. There is no one who can advocate for you and your ideas and your potential better than you can because you have your stories and your evidence and your passion and your heart, and you know what your negotiables and your non-negotiables are. These tools will help you with your outer jury that we've talked about, but also with your inner jury, the part of you that decides what to believe and how to go out and then share that belief with others. How do you overcome the mental baggage around self advocation? I'm not supposed to brag. I'm supposed to be humble. You're not framing your stuff as, I'm awesome, I'm the best. Look at me, I deserve it. It's, you need me to do this. And this is why, if I had the cure for cancer, I wouldn't be bragging if I told people I had the cure for cancer, I would be serving them by making it available to them. Stop thinking about yourself and they start thinking about how your experience, training, talents, and passion can serve their jury, then you will stop feeling like they're bragging and will be able to step into that energy of passion and excitement that actually is extremely persuasive. Building Referrals into Our Business We all want more referrals for our business. We don't just want a Net Promoter Score, we want them to be advocates. What's the difference? The difference is it's not just saying this is a great company, it's saying this is a great company and this is why. And so you turn people around you, into your advocates by advocating for them. So seeing things through their perspective builds credibility, which ultimately builds trust, compassion, and curiosity about their needs. You leave the people around you with stories, evidence, and energy to go out and advocate for you. Three Powerful Questions Tell me what you want me to know. Where are they right? What am I missing? For details about these three powerful questions as well as more examples and stories about advocacy, listen to the full podcast. Heather Hansen For over twenty years Heather was a trial attorney. Her job was to help diverse groups of people believe in her case so that her client could win. She honed the tools for her clients to build credibility quickly so they could persuade diverse juries to see things from their perspective. Now she is sharing the tools with you. Heather has worked with organizations like Berkshire Hathaway Home Services, Google, Sav A Tree, the American Medical Association, Call Miner, and LVMH to help them make the case for their services, products, ideas, and their teams. She's also shared these tools at Harvard Business School, Stanford Law School, and The University of Pennsylvania, and with audiences across the world. Heather has combined her experience in the courtroom with her degree in psychology, her certification as a mediator, and her television work to develop her 5Cs of an Advocate. With these tools, you can overcome objections, banish doubt, build credibility, and change people's perspectives.

This episode of The Lazy CEO Podcast is about determining when it is time, as a Founder, to bring in an outside CEO to run the company. We have a gentleman named Nick Wilkinson. Nick was a CEO that was brought into a company called Binary Tree that one of our members Steven Pivnik had founded, and he was trying to position for sale and upgrade the talent. Nick was the guy he identified and ended up bringing into the company. Nick's Background Originally from the UK. After graduation from university, Nick spent the first 10 years of his career in the British Royal Air Force. After the Air Force, he joined what was then a pretty small company in the UK called Computer Sciences Corporation, CSC, which Nick subsequently spent the next 20, almost 25 years rising through the ranks of CSC from a consultant all the way through for various account management roles to ending up as a direct report to the CEO in, at that time was like a hundred thousand people company with 16 billion in revenue. With a great career in the UK. he was lucky enough to do some interesting jobs, which brought him to the States. He also lived in Australia for a few years and really assimilated a huge amount of knowledge and expertise on how to run large-scale organizations. Back in the early 2010s he was the CEO of a private equity-backed company backed by Bear Capital which was also in the IT services area. And that company and Steven's company oftentimes coexisted with clients. They didn't do the same thing, but they did, provided complimentary services. Here is more of the conversation between Jim Schleckser, CEO of The CEO Project, and Nick Wilkinson. What was the size of the company, the training company, and the IT space prior to coming to Binary Tree? The private equity company was mid-market. It was of comparable size to Binary Tree. I made a decision when I left the large corporate world that I didn't want to go and do the same thing again, I wanted a change. I wanted to have more direct visibility of what I was doing and how it affected the business. I wanted to be a CEO. And I decided that I wanted to try that in a different financial structure, a different capital structure. And that's what led me into the private equity world. An important component of being able to step in as a CEO for a Founder is rolling your sleeves up and not needing somebody to do everything for you. In the founder-owned company, there aren't a whole host of staffers and people to do things for you. A lot of entrepreneurs get dazzled by the resume. They see your big career and think, this guy's brilliant, but then they bring that individual in, and they can't do the big to small translation. You obviously made the transition successfully, but what would you characterize as the differences? Most people can't make that transition. You did. What were the differences and why were you able to do it where maybe others might not be able to? A big part of it is personality. And I'm trying to answer the question without blowing smoke in my own direction. You've got to be reasonably self-effacing and modest, the servant leadership things. I know what it felt like to be at this level, and then a mid-manager and the senior manager and management. I had walked a mile in other people's shoes, and I was always willing to empathize with them and try and see things from their perspective. I've always been someone who's espoused lifelong learning. In addition, the founder must have a certain willingness to change and to listen, but at the same time a clear sense of what it needed to be successful in his or her company. That chemistry is important. If I was trying to figure out if somebody had the right profile or didn't, what would you recommend as the two or three questions to figure out if they've got the profile with you? If you were faced with a new opportunity with a big customer because a CEO must be capable of going out and meeting with customers, what do you do? How do you approach that? Shortly after I arrived at Binary Tree, we traveled out to the middle of nowhere and gave the pitch. We didn't win the business, but the fact that I was willing to be the one who made the deck, I went to Kinkos to get it photocopied. I helped prepare the guy to give the pitch and everybody thought, if this guy isn't here just to tell us what to do, he's willing to do it himself. So, a question that gets a potential CEO to show that they would do it themselves, that they would be there in the trenches with people as opposed to telling them from back at HQ. That would be a good way to frame something How do you follow the legacy of the Founder and establish credibility? How do you establish a relationship with the team? Moving into a CEO role in a new company, not a company that you've been in for some time, promoted into, you must have a balance between the drive to implement the things that got you the job, with the need to really learn about the business, to respect the fact that your knowledge of it is superficial when you've been outside it. You must learn how it actually performs. Where's the value really created? Who are the heroes? Where are the tensions? Where are the hidden gems? How it really works. So, it's that balance between listening and doing, which is always the case for a CEO, but extremely important in those first 60, or 90 days. If you move too quickly, then the organizational will or the body will reject the organ transplant as one of my advisors once said to me but if you move too slowly, you've missed your opportunity, and your authority diminished. And people wonder, why did we make the change then? So, you must have a plan. And revisit the plan with the founder, hers, or his DNAs in the company, and who better person to give you feedback on whether well, that would work, but I wouldn't try that you need to keep that relationship going. It's really that balance between listening and doing that's essential. How much of your original plans survived? Most things that I expected that we would do, we did. Did we do them in six months? No. One of the things that you must learn in smaller companies is that you must take smaller steps. The organization is not robust enough to do dramatic change. There are capital constraints. You must temper your ambitions with the, with the resources that you can muster. For more about the board, sacred cows, the difference between working with PE firms and Founder owned companies, and other lessons learned, listen to the full episode of The Lazy CEO Podcast. About our Guest - Nick Wilkinson After my initial period of military service in the Royal Air Force, I have enjoyed a successful career across a wide spectrum of the IT software and services industry: a proven CEO in private equity and founder-owned companies and extensive, global multi-functional leadership experience in a publicly traded corporation. I have also established myself in the entertainment industry as an author, screenwriter, and producer. In all my activities, I relish transformational challenges and managing through the lifecycle of devising strategy, establishing a vision and purpose, building, motivating, and sustaining an outstanding team, and executing for results. I cultivate win-win relationships with customers, partners, and colleagues. And, perhaps most importantly, I bring optimism and a healthy sense of humor and perspective to every situation.

This episode of The Lazy CEO Podcast is about both performance reviews and employee feedback. There is tension around performance reviews, did I achieve my goals? They have a lot of stress around them. People don't like to do them for that reason, both sides. We will talk about both performance reviews and feedback as the yin and yang of engagement with employees. If you think about feedback as a more continuous process and a performance review is a more periodic kind of engagement, annual or biannual or whatever your pace is, they kind of work together. At one level you'd say the feedback over time should aggregate into the performance review. And in fact, one of the rules around performance reviews is there should not be any surprises around performance reviews. Some organizations are eliminating the annual performance review. They're basically saying, if we're doing a good job of continually giving feedback, we don't really need to do a performance review. Some dispute that because there's a bit of a formality that's got value in a performance review. Two Extreme Cases Gen Zs want continuous feedback on how they're doing. If you told them every day -red, yellow, green, or on a scale of one to 10, they would like that. They are the generation that grew up with- how many likes did I get on my post? And how many friends do I have? How big is my network? And they're constantly measuring themselves for acceptance and how are they performing and where they fit in. You can not give Gen Z too much feedback. The opposite of that is when we get feedback from people that do not have good self-awareness and they do not appraise themselves accurately. When there was a complete mismatch in their view of their performance and the boss's view of their performance. This is when there is a ton of stress, so the boss is questioning, what am I doing wrong that I've not communicated to this person where they stand? And, part of the answer is it's them. Standard Performance Review Model An annual performance review is still important. Let's reframe performance reviews as a coaching opportunity. An opportunity to talk about the good, the bad, and what we're going do to make them better. That's your standard good, above average, performing employee review. How did they perform against their objectives? As a leader, you must set clear objectives - specific, measurable, action-oriented, time-based, achievable, all that has to be true about the objectives. They are very observable, third-party observable. You know if you did them, your employees know, if they did them. So when we sit down and say, did you achieve the specific objectives that we had for you this year? That should be a relatively easy conversation if you did a good job of making them measurable. So we go through the achievements, 1, 2, 3. You got an A on this, a, B on this, and a C minus on this one. The second thing that a lot of people miss when they're doing a review is how you got the job done. So they're only focused on the achievement of the item and they miss how you did the job. How does your boss perceive you in this organization and how you got the job done? Are you effective in working with others to get the job done? Did you work and play well with others? When somebody does the job in a way that doesn't match your culture, they shouldn't be in your organization over time. How did you get the job done? What did you do well, and what did you do poorly on there? And then based on that, where do we need some development? And given where you want to go, so this is where the career conversation comes in. Do you want to be a vice president? Here are the three things that you don't have that you need to be a really good vice president. So let's figure out how to get you those things. We need to teach you some financial skills that you don't have, or you need to understand the product development process. Finally, what else can I do to help make you successful? And that's a bit of a servant leadership view of the universe. I'm here to serve you, I'm here to help make you successful. But it is a worthwhile question particularly if they know you're going to ask it. Let them know, I'm going to ask you that question. And they have a little time to think about it. And then ask, what can I do to help make you more successful? That is a really good question. Giving Feedback The key is to always be very specific in your feedback in the performance review. I'll give you an example of that. If I said you know, Sharon did a really great job on the CEO summit this year. That's one kind of feedback. Another kind of feedback would be- Sharon, the CEO Summit went awesome. I loved how you took full responsibility for it. I love how you solved problems and didn't bring them to me. You just dealt with it when it did become a big enough issue, we talked about it and you just solved it. There was never any drama. You organized everybody seamlessly. You did it with good spirits and everybody had a great time as a result. That is very specific feedback about the actions taken and why she's getting positive feedback. So, when you're giving feedback, be as specific as you possibly can. For the low performer. Did you hit your objectives? No. Did you get the job done? How did you get it done? People that are low performers don't generally cause a lot of problems because they want to keep their head below the radar. They know they are non-performers, most of them. And so, they're not going to make waves. It's the people that think they have earned the right to be a jerk that generally are, and they have developmental needs. You will need to spend time on what they need to do to become fully competent in the job they're in because they're not meeting standards. The need to be specific in feedback is particularly true when you've got somebody who has low self-awareness. For example, we have not made a single date commitment for delivery to a client in the last six months. Here's the scorecard. You were late by at least three weeks on every single commitment that you've made. There are 10 jobs that have been in there for six months. That affects our sales and our revenue if we can't do the application engineering. Now I've been very specific. It's quantifiable, it's observable. Performance Plan We're going to get into a performance improvement plan- these numbers are unacceptable. They need to all get green and on time within the next three months. If they don't, we're going to have a very short conversation and it's going to involve you exiting the organization. So now we're on a performance improvement plan which is more severe than a negative feedback kind of conversation. You're going to have them sign. Not that they agree, but that they have received. The reason why it's important is if you do end up terminating that person, you want a paper trail that says we had multiple conversations about this person's performance. Here are the documents. We were completely clear about what was going on and that's why they got terminated. And so the annual review forces that documentation discipline that if you ever end up in a litigious situation, you've got it as opposed to normal ongoing feedback. For more examples, and incites about feedback and performance reviews, listen to the complete episode of The Lazy CEO Podcast.

The Lazy CEO Podcast guest on this episode is Stephen Drum. Stephen is a 27-year, Navy Seal retired combat vet and he now speaks on leadership, some of the lessons that they learned and developed through his many years of leading people through dangerous, high-stress, mission-critical, environments, which we can all learn a lot from as we run our business. Here is a little bit of the conversation between Jim Schleckser, CEO of The CEO Project, and Stephen Drum. Jim: What is warrior toughness? How do you measure it? As CEOs we would really like to figure out when we hire somebody when the fire starts, are they going to run to the fire or away from the fire? What is toughness? Stephen: Well, to set the scene quickly, I'm sitting there, and we have what's called an all-hands call. That's where the whole entire command will sit and either the commander or somebody from outside will come in. So we're doing an all-hands call in the chapel, which is the biggest place where everybody can all sit. And the chief of naval operations, who is the head admiral of the Navy, comes in and starts talking about his initiatives. And one of them was toughness. I have the bright idea to stand up and say, sir, how do we define toughness? How are we going to measure it? And how are we actually going to train it? Little did I know that about six months later, I would be locked in a room with a clinical psychologist, and a chaplain and the three of us would be charged with figuring out how to get our sailors tough. There were some things in the fleet that hadn't really been going well. If you think of like the fighting sailors from World War ii, we kind of lost that. And now we have things going on, ships colliding, missiles being fired; we need tougher sailors. And so of course, the first thing was we had to define what it is. And so, we defined toughness in three areas. First, you have to take a punch and keep on going. There's the tactical definition, but also the life definition. So, literally, we're on a ship, friends wounded, comrades are injured, and I have to get back up. I may be personally injured myself and I must get back in the fight. But it also takes a punch in my career. I didn't get that promotion. Maybe a loss of a relationship or loss of a loved one, but I have to get up and move forward. Next, I must perform under pressure, in the clutch. It's one thing to know the skills to say, I've been trained, I've practiced, but can you perform under pressure? Can you regulate those emotions? Can you maintain your calm and your composure? And lastly, the day-in, day-out grind. And that swings both ways. That's a high-tempo operation that we would see in the seal teams, multiple combat operations a night for six months. The grind and the toll that takes both physically, emotionally, and mentally. But then also the other side of that coin, let's say a radar operator on a destroyer in the middle of the ocean, at the end of that six-month deployment, staring at a screen. 99.9% of the time, nothing happens, but people are going die if that person is not locked on in case something does. So, it's having that attention and commitment to that level of engagement for a long, protracted period. Finally, having the fundamental values, and beliefs, and knowing how to take action and behave in a way through principles that support those values and beliefs. Because not only do we need people that recognize this, therefore they can arrive at a higher level of commitment to what we need them to do. But we need our sailors, our warfighters, to be people of character. It's one thing, to accomplish the tactical objective, but we need people to be people of the right character to make good moral and ethical decisions as well. Jim: Can everybody get there? I'll give you an example. I was on a board of a company and, and we had some tough times, like missing numbers, bank covenant violation. The bank was ready to take the keys to the building. It was interesting to watch the performance of the executive team. Some ran toward, like we call it, ran towards the fire, right? They said, how can I help? What can I do? Let me take something on, let me right others. Can everybody be brought to the point that they would run to the fire? Are they born or can they be made? And I always default to decide that yes, people are more predisposed to have certain traits, characteristics and attributes to make them more gregarious, whatever that is. But ultimately, I believe that we can build that even if you tend to be an introvert, you can still do things. For example, I refuse to believe that somebody who's introverted can't go out and be a good sales rep. Stephen: I also believe that you can always be tougher. There must be a level of commitment that says this is important, and I'm going to do everything possible for me to set the table for my success, and for my team's success. You can do your very best, but if you at the end of the day cannot be bought into that concept, then I'm going to have to exit you from my sphere. Jim: And that does happen. We talked about how this applies to the business environment. You could argue the stakes aren't quite as high, but the ideas certainly translate. How do you translate that line of thinking to a business environment and give an example or two of how you've seen it work? Stephen: The concept that I talk about is the X and I think it's important. My book is called Life on the X, but the X goes back to my time in the military. And it's a military doctrine term, but you can think of it as X marks the spot. So if you rope out of a helicopter onto the rooftop of a building, we call that landing on the X. I'm going to line up all my efforts and all my preparations to make sure that I show up, that I can handle curve balls, that I can pivot, that I can adjust, and that I can learn. Every engagement that you make, you must be intentional, whether it's internal to your organization, to your customer, or to your partner. I must make sure that I align the skills, I identify the gaps in my performance so that when I walk in there, I'm calm and composed, but I also have that level of, okay, I'm hovering above, I can make a decision. I'm not too close to the problem. So really it's about regulating your emotions. For more of the conversation between Jim and Steven, listen to the full Podcast. Thank you to our guest... Stephen Drum is a combat-tested retired Navy SEAL Master Chief who has 27 years of experience leading and developing high-performance teams. As an in-demand speaker and consultant, he helps individuals and organizations such as CDW, Horizon Pharma, and 9 Energy develop leadership and performance strategies, so they can plan, prepare, and execute at the highest levels when it matters most. Steve has trained and led U.S. and foreign partner special operations forces on high-risk and strategically vital missions across the globe, including combat operations in rag and Afghanistan. He recently co-developed and taught "Warrior Toughness" training for The U.S. Navy. This vital program fundamentally changed the culture of the Navy in how it trains and prepares young sailors and officers for the acute stress of intense combat operations. During his Navy career, Steve has personally trained thousands of elite military soldiers and Navy SEAL candidates, helping them succeed in severe training courses and overseas combat operations.

In this Episode Today we're going to talk about some specific ways that you can become more purposeful in your organization. Let's just start with the audiences that care about this. Everybody does at some level, but there are three specific audiences that are highly attuned to purpose. Gen Zs - they have no fear about going to get another job because they've grown up in an environment where jobs were always available. And those of us that have been through a couple of cycles have experienced times in our lives where job jobs were less available, but this group has never experienced that. This group generally believes that since they are working, they might as well make a difference in the world in some way. They are looking for purposeful places to work. Millennials – like Gen Z are looking for purposeful work. Midlife Crisis Boomers - there is a point in a Boomer's career where they are talking about what to do next year. We are going to make more money and grow our revenue and that's the plan. Is that what life is about? The question of purpose at work became a present problem and issue at that time. And if they cannot find purpose in their work, they go find purpose outside the business. So, what should we do differently? And, why would we want to have significance? To attract millennials, attract Gen Z, retain them, and midlife crisis people that are looking for significance in their life. To attract the right kind of people. To retain the right kind of people. It's about doing something amazing so you're going to see a different kind of retention if you can find people that are in the tribe that buys into your purpose. But it will also mean that some people aren't the right fit for you. The choice to be purposeful in a particular direction may exclude a large group of the population that doesn't buy into what you're trying to get done. And that's okay. The ones you do get are going to be way more loyal, way more retained, and way more committed to the purpose. How do you demonstrate purpose? Here are a couple of examples: At minimal levels of significance and purpose - donate money. Organizations have done this forever. Support junior achievement or Boys Club and Girls Club, support the United Way, whatever the organization is, and make donations to the community, or to the environment. That is a great way to add purpose but is often not aligned with the greater business purpose and where you're going and the tribe you're trying to build. Slightly better than that is a giving committee, and this is a case where the people in the organization decide where the money's going. Most of the monies that are going to be donated to whatever charities in the community are determined by the giving committee of employees. This is a great way to engage the organization in where the money goes. Employees that are donating time, donating money on top of that is a great combination. So time and money get extra time and treasure if you will give extra leverage in the giving committee's consideration. But more than that the giving committee is connected to the community so their ability to figure out what's important and give to need points in the community is better. An interesting way of having everybody in the organization on the giving committee is to say, if you give, we will match it. One simple move here is service days. If you want to go and give service to some organization, the company will give you time to do that. If they go spend half a day working in the soup kitchen or helping sort clothes or working with the Girl Scouts, they're going to come back with a whole different energy around work. Finally, there's a lot of power in your giving aligning with your business as well. This one takes a little more thought than stroking the check to United Way, but I think it's three or four notches more impactful and powerful in terms of building your culture and aligning what you do with your charitable giving. For examples and perspectives on B Corps and aligning your charitable business into your business model, list to The Lazy CEO Podcast.