

The Education Gadfly Show
Thomas B. Fordham Institute
For more than 15 years, the Fordham Institute has been hosting a weekly podcast, The Education Gadfly Show. Each week, you’ll get lively, entertaining discussions of recent education news, usually featuring Fordham’s Mike Petrilli and David Griffith. Then the wise Amber Northern will recap a recent research study. For questions or comments on the podcast, contact its producer, Stephanie Distler, at sdistler@fordhaminstitute.org.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Apr 20, 2022 • 19min
#816: Want kids back in school? Make sure they feel safe. - 04/20/22
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Jing Liu, Assistant Professor in Education Policy at the University of Maryland College Park and author of our latest study, Imperfect Attendance: Toward a fairer measure of student absenteeism, joins Mike Petrilli to discuss its findings, the notion of “attendance value-added,” and how improving school safety could help keep kids in class. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern looks at what happened when Massachusetts labeled half its students as “advanced” in mathematics.Recommended content:Jing Liu’s study: Imperfect Attendance: Toward a fairer measure of student absenteeism.The study Mike referenced that also examined “attendance value-added”: C. Kirabo Jackson, et al., “School effects on socioemotional development, school-based arrests, and educational attainment,” American Economic Review: Insights 2, no. 4 (2020): 491–508.The study that Amber reviewed on the Research Minute: Christopher Avery & Joshua Goodman, “Ability signals and rigorous coursework: Evidence from AP Calculus participation” Economics of Education Review (June 2022).Amber’s previous research review of an ability-signaling intervention: “How students react to news of their AP potential.”Feedback welcome!Have ideas or feedback on our podcast? Send them to our podcast producer Pedro Enamorado at penamorado@fordhaminstitute.org.

Apr 13, 2022 • 24min
#815: Paul Hill vs. Checker Finn: Does Denver prove that portfolio districts are doomed? - 4/13/22
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Paul Hill, founder of the Center on Reinventing Public Education and emeritus professor at the University of Washington Bothell, joins Mike Petrilli and Checker Finn to debate recent reform setbacks in Denver, and whether they prove that portfolio districts are doomed. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern shares good news from a study examining the intersection of gifted education and segregation.Recommended content:Checker’s case for why these types of reforms are not politically resilient: “Denver’s cautionary tale for the ‘charter-lite’ strategy.”Paul’s response: “Denver doesn’t spell doom for portfolio-style reform.”Paul’s book on innovation schools referenced during the podcast, Strife and Progress: Portfolio Strategies for Managing Urban Schools.The study that Amber reviewed on the Research Minute: Owen Thompson, “Gifted & Talented Programs and Racial Segregation” NBER Working Paper #29546 (December 2021).Feedback welcome!Have ideas or feedback on our podcast? Send them to our podcast producer Pedro Enamorado at penamorado@fordhaminstitute.org.

Apr 6, 2022 • 24min
#814: How Biden’s proposed regulations would hurt charter schools - 4/6/22
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast (listen on Apple Podcasts and Spotify), Christy Wolfe, vice president for policy and planning at the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools, joins Mike Petrilli to discuss how new regulations proposed by the Biden administration could stunt the growth of charter schools across America. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern examines a survey of student reading habits in grades K–12.You can find this and every episode on all major podcast platforms, as well as share it with friends.Recommended content:Christy’s piece criticizing the proposed regulations: “Biden administration’s proposed rules for Charter School Program empower districts at the expense of communities.”The study that Amber reviewed on the Research Minute: Yangsook Choi et al., “What Kids Are Reading: 2022 Edition,” Renaissance Learning, Inc. (2022).Feedback welcome!Have ideas or feedback on our podcast? Send them to our podcast producer Pedro Enamorado at penamorado@fordhaminstitute.org.

Apr 1, 2022 • 2min
Education Gladfly Show: The literal research minute
This week’s Education Gladfly Show podcast is a Research Minute–only special! Amber Northern examines a survey of district and charter network leaders about staffing challenges they’ve faced this school year—and true to the segment’s name, tries her mightiest to do so in under sixty seconds. Will she succeed? Listen to find out. (April Fools episode!)Related Content“Young Cattle Auctioneer Champion,” America’s Heartland, YouTube (December 12, 2012).“Talking Fast With a Record-Setting Speed Talker,” Great Big Story, YouTube (October 25, 2017).The study that Amber reviewed on the Research Minute: Heather L. Schwartz and Melissa Kay Diliberti, “Flux in the Educator Labor Market: Acute Staff Shortages and Projected Superintendent Departures,” RAND Corporation (2022).Feedback welcome!Have ideas or feedback on our podcast? Send them to our podcast producer Pedro Enamorado at penamorado@fordhaminstitute.org.

Mar 30, 2022 • 28min
#813: Rick Hess and Mike Petrilli on ed reform and culture wars - 3/30/22
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast (listen on Apple Podcasts and Spotify), Rick Hess, Senior Fellow and Director of Education Policy Studies at the American Enterprise Institute and the cohost of the “Common Ground” podcast, joins Mike Petrilli and David Griffith to discuss how to advance an ed reform agenda in the midst of ongoing culture wars. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern discusses a study on housing affordability’s impact on student outcomes.You can find this and every episode on all major podcast platforms, as well as share it with friends.Recommended content:Rick Hess’s plan for post-pandemic schooling in The Dispatch, “Schools Are Exiting the Pandemic. What Now?”Rick’s podcast, “Common Ground,” which he cohosts with Pedro Noguera on Spotify and Apple podcasts.The study that Amber reviewed on the Research Minute: Jennifer Jellison Holme, “Growing Up as Rents Rise: How Housing Affordability Impacts Children,” Review of Educational Research (March 2022).Feedback welcome!Have ideas or feedback on our podcast? Send them to our podcast producer Pedro Enamorado at penamorado@fordhaminstitute.org.

Mar 23, 2022 • 22min
#812: How to follow the science to improve elementary education - 3/23/22
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast (listen on Apple Podcasts and Spotify), Mike Petrilli, David Griffith, and Victoria McDougald discuss Follow the Science to School: Evidence-based Practices for Elementary Education, a new book that Mike edited with Kathleen Carroll and Barbara Davidson. They talk about the promise of evidence-based practices, the importance of elementary education, and the centrality of high-quality instructional materials. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern examines a study on how employment during high school impacts student outcomes.You can find this and every episode on all major podcast platforms, as well as share it with friends.Recommended content:Mike’s book, co-edited with Kathleen Carroll and Barbara Davidson: Follow the Science to School: Evidence-based Practices for Elementary Education.Mike’s pieces from previous years addressing elementary education and the importance of research-based practices: “An ode to elementary schools” and “Can evidence improve America's schools?”The study that Amber reviewed on the Research Minute: Rune Vammen Lesner et al., “The Effect of School-Year Employment on Cognitive Skills, Risky Behavior, and Educational Achievement,” Economics of Education Review (March 2022).Feedback welcome!Have ideas or feedback on our podcast? Send them to our podcast producer Pedro Enamorado at penamorado@fordhaminstitute.org.

Mar 16, 2022 • 24min
#811: How one district scouts for talent for its gifted programs - 3/16/22
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast (listen on Apple Podcasts and Spotify), April Wells, Gifted Coordinator in Illinois School District U-46 and author of Achieving Equity in Gifted Programming: Dismantling Barriers and Tapping Potential, joins Mike Petrilli and David Griffith to discuss how her district scouts for talented students early on, and from all backgrounds. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern examines a survey of district and charter network leaders about staffing challenges they’ve faced this school year.You can find this and every episode on all major podcast platforms, as well as share it with friends.Recommended content:A 2021 Hechinger Report piece on April’s district and how it reformed its approach to gifted education: “An Illinois district proved gifted programs can be racially diverse.”April’s 2019 book: Achieving Equity in Gifted Programming: Dismantling Barriers and Tapping Potential.The study that Amber reviewed on the Research Minute: Heather L. Schwartz and Melissa Kay Diliberti, “Flux in the Educator Labor Market: Acute Staff Shortages and Projected Superintendent Departures,” RAND Corporation (2022).Feedback welcome!Have ideas or feedback on our podcast? Send them to our podcast producer Pedro Enamorado at penamorado@fordhaminstitute.org.

Mar 9, 2022 • 27min
#810: College for all or college for some? - 3/9/22
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast (listen on Apple Podcasts and Spotify), Lizzette Gonzalez Reynolds, Vice President of Policy for ExcelinEd, joins Mike Petrilli and David Griffith to discuss the pros and cons of the college-for-all movement. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern discusses a study on how winning public-school-choice lotteries affects public school enrollment.You can find this and every episode on all major podcast platforms, as well as share it with friends.Recommended content:Mike’s post on reforming high school for the many students who won’t go to or aren’t prepared for a four-year college: “We all agree that college isn’t for everyone. We should start acting like it.”Arthur Samuels’ concurring piece, which focuses on how principals can support students aiming for entering a career instead of college: “A principal explains how to repair the harm of ‘college for all’.”The study that Amber reviewed on the Research Minute: Susha Roy, “Public School Choice, Outside Options, and Public School Enrollment,” retrieved from Annenberg Institute at Brown University (February 2022).Feedback welcome!Have ideas or feedback on our podcast? Send them to our podcast producer Pedro Enamorado at penamorado@fordhaminstitute.org.

Mar 2, 2022 • 27min
#809: Diversity, the law, and the future of selective-admission schools - 3/2/22
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast (listen on Apple Podcasts and Spotify), Fordham’s editorial director, Brandon Wright, joins Mike Petrilli and David Griffith to talk about the shifting landscape of highly-selective high schools. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern discusses a study on teacher morale during the pandemic. You can find this and every episode on all major podcast platforms, as well as share it with friends.Recommended content:Brandon’s piece from 2021, which discusses Boston’s exam school policies: “Boston is punishing its Asian American community for its educational success.”A 2020 Chicago study finding that the city’s approach to diversifying selective-high-school admissions had null-to-negative effects on the academic achievement of admitted disadvantaged students: Lisa Barrow, Lauren Sartain, and Marisa de la Torre, “Increasing Access to Selective High Schools through Place-Based Affirmative Action: Unintended Consequences,” American Economic Journal: Applied Economics (October 2020). The federal district court ruling on admissions-policy changes at Thomas Jefferson High School in Fairfax, Virginia: Coalition for TJ v. Fairfax County School Board, No. 1:21cv296-CMH-JFA (E.D. VA February 25, 2022).The study that Amber reviewed on the Research Minute: Gema Zamarro et al., “Understanding Teacher Turnover Intentions During the COVID-19 Pandemic” retrieved from the Annenberg Institute at Brown University (February 2022).Feedback welcome!Have ideas or feedback on our podcast? Send them to our podcast producer Pedro Enamorado at penamorado@fordhaminstitute.org.

Feb 23, 2022 • 24min
#808: End school mask mandates. It’s now or never - 2/23/22
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast (listen on Apple Podcasts and Spotify), Daniel Buck, Fordham senior visiting fellow and English teacher at Holy Spirit Middle School in Appleton, Wisconsin, joins Mike Petrilli and David Griffith to argue that the educational harms of face masks now outweigh their benefits. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern discusses a study on whether alternative pathways to graduation benefit students who fail exit exams. You can find this and every episode on all major podcast platforms, as well as share it with friends.Recommended content:Dan’s piece, which cites studies and European and World Health Organization’s policies on masking children to make his case: “End school mask mandates.”A great read in The Atlantic by Emily Oster making a similar case: “Kids-Last COVID Policy Makes No Sense.”The study that Amber reviewed on the Research Minute: Jane Arnold Lincove, Catherine Mata, and Kalena E. Cortes, “A Bridge to Graduation: Post-Secondary Effects of an Alternative Pathway for Students Who Fail High School Exit Exams,” retrieved from Annenberg Institute at Brown University (February 2022).Feedback welcome!Have ideas or feedback on our podcast? Send them to our podcast producer Pedro Enamorado at penamorado@fordhaminstitute.org.