
The Real Story
Global experts and decision makers discuss, debate and analyse a key news story.
Latest episodes

Feb 24, 2023 • 49min
What does the future hold for President Erdoğan?
The earthquakes that struck south-eastern Turkey and northern Syria on 6 February were deadly and devastating. Tens of thousands have died - many more are unaccounted for.It's not the first time that Turkey has been blindsided by a major earthquake. In 1999 the Turkish government was caught off-guard by an earthquake that killed more than 17,000 people. It sparked major public outcry that helped bring Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and his conservative Justice and Development Party (AKP) into power for the first time in 2003. Back then Erdoğan blamed poor governance and corruption for the huge number of casualties. But now he is the one in power - and this earthquake is even deadlier still. There has been criticism of the speed and effectiveness of the Turkish government's response to the earthquake and anger at periodic building amnesties that legalised poorly built homes - despite Turkey’s history of earthquakes.So could Turkey’s response to the earthquake have been better and what were the limiting factors? With elections on the horizon and an economy in trouble, will the shock of this earthquake loosen President Erdoğan's grip on power? President Erdoğan has cast himself as a key player on the international stage so what might all of this mean for the wider region?Ritula Shah is joined by:Sinan Ülgen, a former Turkish diplomat and director of the Centre for Economics and Foreign Policy Studies, an independent think tank based in Istanbul. Tarık Oğuzlu, a Professor of Political Science and International Relations at Istanbul Aydin University.Ayla Jean Yackley, a freelance journalist who has been covering the earthquake for the Financial Times.Also featuring:Ilnur Cevik, special advisor to President ErdoğanIlan Kelman, Professor of Disasters and Health and University College LondonPhoto: Turkish President Erdogan visits Hatay province in the aftermath of a deadly earthquake / Credit: Murat Cetinmuhurdar/Presidential Press Office/Handout via REUTERSProducers: Imogen Wallace and Pandita Lorenz

Feb 17, 2023 • 49min
Can Lula fix the Amazon?
Brazil’s newly-elected president, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, has pledged to protect the Amazon and to reach zero deforestation by 2030. During a recent meeting with US President Biden, Lula said the rainforest had been "invaded" under the previous administration. His predecessor, Jair Bolsonaro, relaxed environmental protections, encouraging mining and logging in the Amazon that he said would help economic development. Voters will now be waiting to see if they can trust Lula to follow through on the promises he has made so far for the Amazon. But Lula faces huge challenges: The Brazilian Congress elected in the October polls is still largely dominated by conservatives, with Bolsonaro’s PL the largest party in the lower house. Lula’s government will also have to contend with widespread violent crime and illegal mining and logging taking place across the region, even in the protected territories of indigenous communities. The Amazon has been under increasing pressure recently with Brazil setting a new deforestation record last year for the amount of trees cut down in the rainforest in one month.So what needs to happen to save the Amazon? Can preservation and economic development go hand in hand? How important is the conservation of the rainforest for the rest of the world? And will Lula live up to his promise to end deforestation by the end of the decade?Chris Morris is joined by:Carlos Nobre is a climatologist who is chair of the Brazilian Panel on Climate Change. He's also a senior researcher at the Institute for Advanced Studies in the Federal University of São PauloChristian Lohbauer is a political scientist and founder of the political party - Partido Novo (NOVO)Richard Lapper is the former Latin America editor for the Financial Times and the author of Beef, Bible and Bullets: Brazil in the Age of Bolsonaro published in 2021Also featuring:Ricardo Salles, Minister of the Environment from 2019 to 2021, under Jair BolsonaroPhoto: A member of the Xikrin indigenous group fighting deforestation in the Amazon, Para, 20 September 2019. Credit: European Photopress Agency

Feb 10, 2023 • 49min
How do you stop police brutality?
Five ex-police officers have been charged with second-degree murder after beating Tyre Nichols, 29, who was black, during a traffic stop in Memphis, Tennessee. He died three days later.Nichols’ death has sparked protests and fresh calls for reform of the police in Memphis and nationwide. Over the past years, the US has been in the spotlight for police brutality. Public outcry against the murders of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor and Rayshard Brooks - to name a few - at the hands of the police led to Black Lives Matter protests across the globe. It's not just the US grappling with the problem of police brutality. We take a global look at the problem. Which countries are getting it right? Can policing ever be effective without violence? And is reform or a more radical rethink needed?Ritula Shah is joined by: Dr DeLacy Davis is the founder of Black Cops Against Police Brutality and the author of Black Cops Against Police Brutality: A Crisis Action Plan. He is a retired New Jersey police sergeant who served for 20 years in the East Orange police department and commanded the Community Services Unit. Alex Vitale is a Professor of Sociology at Brooklyn College - part of the City University of New York. He is also the coordinator of the Policing and Social Justice Project at Brooklyn College and the author of a number of books including The End of Policing
Zoha Waseem is Assistant Professor in Criminology at the Department of Sociology, University of Warwick and author of Insecure Guardians: Enforcement, Encounters and Everyday Policing in Postcolonial KarachiAlso featuring:Rune Glomseth, Associate Professor at Norway’s Police University College in Oslo

Feb 3, 2023 • 49min
Why is violence escalating between Israelis and Palestinians?
The US Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, visited Israel this week after days of increasing violence between Israelis and Palestinians. Last week, 10 Palestinians were killed in the West Bank city of Jenin, when Israeli forces mounted a raid against a cell which Israel said was planning to carry out an attack. The next day, six Israelis and a Ukrainian were killed when a Palestinian opened fire near a synagogue in East Jerusalem. The deaths triggered rocket fire into Israel from Gaza and air strikes from Israel. Secretary Blinken says the immediate priority is to restore calm, but how realistic is this, and why has the situation become so violent and volatile again?Tensions have been bubbling beneath the surface for years but, after the re-election of Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel now has the most radically nationalist governing coalition in its history. Meanwhile, Palestinians are dealing with the near collapse in control by the Palestinian Authority in parts of the occupied West Bank, with an ageing leader, Mahmoud Abbas, who has been in power for 18 years with no successor on the horizon. So how much is this a factor in the escalating violence? What possible solutions might any party bring to the table? And, as the situation gets bloodier, is there any chance of a peaceful compromise?Ritula Shah is joined by:Martin Indyk has held a number of key diplomatic posts, including as President Barack Obama's special envoy for the Israeli-Palestinian negotiations from July 2013 to June 2014. He also served as U.S. ambassador to Israel from 1995 to 1997, and again from 2000 to 2001. Nour Odeh is a Palestinian political analyst and former journalist, based in Ramallah. Prof Efraim Inbar is the president of the Jerusalem Institute for Strategy and Security, a think tank with a conservative outlook.Also featuring:Boaz Bismuth, member of Knesset for the Likud party
Hosam Zomlot, head of the Palestinian mission to the UK(Photo: Israeli settlers (back) carry an Israeli flag as Palestinian and Israeli activists (front) march during a protest against the eviction of Palestinian families in Sheikh Jarrah neighbourhood, Jerusalem. Credit: Atef Safadi/EPA-EFE/Rex/Shutterstock)Producers: Pandita Lorenz and Ellen Otzen

Jan 27, 2023 • 49min
Is it getting any easier for women in politics?
Jacinda Ardern’s resignation as New Zealand’s PM this month came as a surprise to millions around the world. When she came to office in 2017, she stuck out as a contrast to populist leaders that dominated the global scene at the time. To some, she was a progressive female icon. She had to contend with intense public scrutiny throughout her journey, from announcing her pregnancy just months after taking office to her decision to take six weeks of maternity leave, which sparked debate on whether it was too short. Former prime minister Helen Clark, New Zealand’s first female elected leader, said Ardern faced “unprecedented” attacks during her tenure. Only 26% of the world’s politicians are women. The three most commonly held portfolios by women ministers are still: Family, children and youth.So what are the challenges of being a woman at the top of politics? Are female political leaders under more scrutiny than men? And what can be done to encourage more women into top roles in government?Paul Henley is joined by a panel of experts:Rosie Campbell, professor of politics and Director of the Global Institute for Women’s Leadership at Kings College, London.Helen Clark, former Prime Minister of New Zealand.Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, former President of Liberia and winner of the 2011 Nobel Peace Prize.Also featuring Ruth Davidson, former leader of the Scottish Conservative Party.Photo: New Zealand's Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern addresses the Lowy Institute in Sydney, Australia, July 7, 2022. Dean Lewins/Pool via REUTERSProducers: Pandita Lorenz and Ellen Otzen

Jan 20, 2023 • 49min
Has Germany been holding back the war effort in Ukraine?
Russia's invasion of Ukraine has led to one of the biggest shifts ever seen in Germany's post-war foreign policy. Vladimir Putin managed to achieve what NATO allies spent years trying to: a massive increase in Germany's military spending and a commitment to NATO's spending target of 2% of GDP. As the conflict escalated, Germany's longstanding relations with Russia cooled, there was an end to Russian energy imports and Germany began sending some weapons direct to Ukraine. But back home Germans remain deeply divided about investing in their military given the long and painful shadow cast by the World Wars. A strand of pacifism has become deeply woven into German society and there are strong threads running through many of the political parties in power, including Chancellor Olaf Scholz's party, the Social Democratic Party. This week defence ministers meet at the military base in Ramstein in Germany to discuss what they will do next in Ukraine. Chancellor Scholz is under increasing international pressure to give the go-ahead for German-made battle tanks to be sent to Ukraine. So will the German Chancellor do what many of his Western allies want or will he continue to favour diplomacy in an effort to avoid provoking Vladimir Putin further? And, if Europe cannot agree, what does this mean for the future of European security and the EU project as a whole?Photo: German Chancellor Olaf Scholz looks at weapons during a visit to a military base of the German army Bundeswehr in Bergen, Germany, in October 2022. Credit: REUTERS/Fabian BimmerProducers: Ellen Otzen and Pandita Lorenz

Jan 13, 2023 • 49min
Prince Harry: Dealing with grief in the public eye
Prince Harry's bombshell memoir, Spare, leaves few royal stones unturned. From a physical confrontation with his brother Prince William to his own drug taking, one of the threads that runs through all of these startling revelations is the long shadow that the sudden death of his mother, Princess Diana, cast when he was only 12.Prince Harry claims he never properly dealt with - or was helped to deal with - his profound grief. In his memoir he claims he only cried once after his mother’s death and was never hugged by his father on the day he found out. The Royals have, so far, not commented on any of the book’s revelations but how hard is it to deal with bereavement and grief in the public eye? What do Prince Harry’s recollections tell us about his experience of dealing with grief in this unique family or the modern world more generally? Does privilege help or hinder the process? What role has the media played? And, ultimately, is there ever a right way to deal with grief?Ritula Shah is joined by a panel of experts:Catherine Mayer is a writer, activist and the co-founder of the Women's Equality Party. She is also the author of Good Grief: Embracing life at a time of death published in 2020 and Charles: The Heart of a King published in 2015 but both with newly update material.Dr Elaine Kasket is a psychologist, an expert on death, and author of All the Ghosts in the Machine: The Digital Afterlife of your Personal Data published in 2019Angela Levin is a journalist, royal commentator and biographer. Her books including Harry: Conversations with the Prince published in 2018 and Camilla: From Outcast to Queen Consort released last year.Credits: Spare by Prince Harry / Audible
Bryony Gordon’s Mad World, a podcast by Telegraph Media Group Limited 2021Photo: Britain's Prince Harry follows the coffin of Queen Elizabeth II during her funeral procession in 2022.
Credit: Stephane de Sakutin/Pool via REUTERSProducers: Alba Morgade and Pandita Lorenz

6 snips
Jan 6, 2023 • 49min
Andrew Tate: Why is misogyny so popular online?
The arrest of controversial British-American influencer Andrew Tate in Romania as a part of a human trafficking and rape investigation has pulled his brand of online misogyny back into the headlines.
Tate, who denies the allegations against him, is a former kickboxer who rose to fame in 2016 when he was removed from TV show Big Brother over a video which appeared to depict him attacking a woman. He claimed at the time that the video had been edited and was “a total lie”.He is among a group of influencers who have gained popularity - or notoriety - by advocating a lifestyle in which women are reduced to being subservient to men. The language can be harsh and explicit -- but the ideas appear to be gaining traction with a generation of teenagers and young men.Does the appeal of a more aggressive stance against women and equality suggest there is a crisis of masculinity? Has feminism made its claims at the expense of men?Or is this simply the effect of social media amplifying attitudes that have always existed? Ritula Shah is joined by a panel of experts:Richard Reeves - Senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. Author of the book Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male Is Struggling, Why It Matters and What to Do About It (2022)Natasha Walter - Feminist writer and activist, author of several books, among them Living Dolls - The return of sexismFrank Furedi, Emeritus Professor of Sociology, University of Kent
Also featuringSophia Smith Galer - Senior news reporter at Vice World News and author of the book 'Losing It: Sex Education for the 21st Century' (2022)Producers: Paul Schuster, Pandita Lorenz and Ellen Otzen.

Dec 16, 2022 • 49min
A tough winter for Ukraine as Russia exploits the cold
As the war continues and winter sets in, Russia is targeting Ukraine's energy infrastructure with waves of missile and drone strikes, at times cutting off electricity for millions of civilians. How are the Ukrainian people coping? Does Ukraine’s military have enough weaponry and manpower to defeat the Russians? Or could the war become a more drawn-out conflict, with neither side capable of making a decisive breakthrough?Ritula Shah is joined by a panel of experts:Natalie Jaresko - Ukraine's minister for finance from 2014 – 2016. Currently chair of the Aspen Institute, KyivKataryna Wolczuk - Associate fellow of Chatham House think tank’s Russia and Eurasia programme and professor of East European Politics at University of BirminghamRetired Major General Gordon ‘Skip’ Davis - NATO’s Deputy Assistant Secretary General for Defense Investment Division from 2018-2021.
Also featuring : Alexei Sandakov, a resident of Kherson & Andrei Soldatov, a Russian investigative journalist and security expertProducers: Rumella Dasgupta and Ellen Otzen(Photo: A Ukrainian armored vehicle is seen on the streets in Bakhmut; Credit : Diego Herrera Carcedo/Anadolu Agency via Getty Images)

Dec 9, 2022 • 49min
Are protests changing Iran?
The anti-government protests sweeping Iran are now in their third month, with no sign of ending, despite a bloody crackdown. Women have been at the forefront of the unrest that began in mid-September following the death in custody of Mahsa Amini, a 22-year-old woman who was detained by morality police for allegedly wearing her hijab, or headscarf, "improperly". The protests have spread to more than 150 cities and 140 universities in all 31 of the country's provinces and are seen as one of the most serious challenges to the Islamic Republic since the 1979 revolution. What are the protesters calling for? What is Iran’s leadership planning to do to end the unrest - and what does this mean for Iran’s relationship with its neighbours and with the West?Ritula Shah is joined by a panel of experts:Azadeh Moaveni - Iran expert, writer and associate professor of journalism at New York University. Esfandyar Batmanghelidj - founder and CEO of the Bourse & Bazaar economic thinktank specialising in the Middle East and Iran.Sanam Vakil - deputy director of Chatham House’s Middle East North Africa programme in London.Also featuring : Sadegh Zibakalam - writer and Professor of political science at the University of TehranProducer: Ellen Otzen and Rumella Dasgupta(Photo: A woman in a street in Tehran, Iran. Credit: Majid Asgaripour/WANA/Reuters)