

Books & Writers · The Creative Process: Novelists, Screenwriters, Playwrights, Poets, Non-fiction Writers & Journalists Talk Writing, Life & Creativity
Novelists, Screenwriters, Playwrights, Poets, Non-fiction Writers & Journalists Talk Writing · Creative Process Original Series
Books & Writing episodes of the popular The Creative Process podcast. To listen to ALL arts & creativity episodes of “The Creative Process · Arts, Culture & Society”, you’ll find our main podcast on Apple: tinyurl.com/thecreativepod, Spotify: tinyurl.com/thecreativespotify, or wherever you get your podcasts!
Exploring the fascinating minds of creative people. Conversations with writers, artists & creative thinkers across the Arts & STEM. We discuss their life, work & artistic practice. Winners of Pulitzer, Oscar, Emmy, Tony, leaders & public figures share real experiences & offer valuable insights. Notable guests include: Neil Gaiman, Roxane Gay, George Pelecanos, George Saunders, Viet Thanh Nguyen, Jericho Brown, Joyce Carol Oates, Hilary Mantel, Daniel Handler a.k.a. Lemony Snicket, Siri Hustvedt, Jeffrey Sachs, Jeffrey Rosen (National Constitution Center), Tom Perrotta, Ioannis Trohopoulos (UNESCO World Book Capital), Ana Castillo, David Tomas Martinez, Rebecca Walker, Isabel Allende, Ian Buruma, Aimee Nezhukumatathil, Ada Limon, John d’Agata, Rick Moody, Paul Auster, Robert Olen Butler, Yiyun Li, Rob Nixon, Tobias Wolff, Yann Martel, Junot Díaz, Edna O’Brien, Eimear McBride, Jung Chang, Jane Smiley, Marge Piercy, Maxine Hong Kingston, Sara Paretsky, Carmen Maria Machado, Neil Patrick Harris, Jay McInerney, Etgar Keret, DBC Pierre, Adam Alter, Janet Burroway, Geoff Dyer, Jenny Bhatt, Hala Alyan, E.J. Koh, Jeannie Vanasco, Lan Samantha Chang (Iowa Writers Workshop), Alice Fulton, Alice Notley, McKenzie Funk, Emma Walton Hamilton, Krys Lee, Douglas Kennedy, Sam Lipsyte, Charles Baxter, Azby Brown, G. Samantha Rosenthal, Ashley Dawson, Douglas Wolk, Suzanne Simard, Seth Siegel, Richard Wolff, Todd Miller, Giulio Boccaletti, Amy Aniobi, among others.
The interviews are hosted by founder and creative educator Mia Funk with the participation of students, universities, and collaborators from around the world. These conversations are also part of our traveling exhibition. www.creativeprocess.info
For The Creative Process podcasts from Seasons 1 & 2, visit: tinyurl.com/creativepod or creativeprocess.info/interviews-page-1, which has our complete directory of interviews, transcripts, artworks, and details about ways to get involved.
Exploring the fascinating minds of creative people. Conversations with writers, artists & creative thinkers across the Arts & STEM. We discuss their life, work & artistic practice. Winners of Pulitzer, Oscar, Emmy, Tony, leaders & public figures share real experiences & offer valuable insights. Notable guests include: Neil Gaiman, Roxane Gay, George Pelecanos, George Saunders, Viet Thanh Nguyen, Jericho Brown, Joyce Carol Oates, Hilary Mantel, Daniel Handler a.k.a. Lemony Snicket, Siri Hustvedt, Jeffrey Sachs, Jeffrey Rosen (National Constitution Center), Tom Perrotta, Ioannis Trohopoulos (UNESCO World Book Capital), Ana Castillo, David Tomas Martinez, Rebecca Walker, Isabel Allende, Ian Buruma, Aimee Nezhukumatathil, Ada Limon, John d’Agata, Rick Moody, Paul Auster, Robert Olen Butler, Yiyun Li, Rob Nixon, Tobias Wolff, Yann Martel, Junot Díaz, Edna O’Brien, Eimear McBride, Jung Chang, Jane Smiley, Marge Piercy, Maxine Hong Kingston, Sara Paretsky, Carmen Maria Machado, Neil Patrick Harris, Jay McInerney, Etgar Keret, DBC Pierre, Adam Alter, Janet Burroway, Geoff Dyer, Jenny Bhatt, Hala Alyan, E.J. Koh, Jeannie Vanasco, Lan Samantha Chang (Iowa Writers Workshop), Alice Fulton, Alice Notley, McKenzie Funk, Emma Walton Hamilton, Krys Lee, Douglas Kennedy, Sam Lipsyte, Charles Baxter, Azby Brown, G. Samantha Rosenthal, Ashley Dawson, Douglas Wolk, Suzanne Simard, Seth Siegel, Richard Wolff, Todd Miller, Giulio Boccaletti, Amy Aniobi, among others.
The interviews are hosted by founder and creative educator Mia Funk with the participation of students, universities, and collaborators from around the world. These conversations are also part of our traveling exhibition. www.creativeprocess.info
For The Creative Process podcasts from Seasons 1 & 2, visit: tinyurl.com/creativepod or creativeprocess.info/interviews-page-1, which has our complete directory of interviews, transcripts, artworks, and details about ways to get involved.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Dec 5, 2023 • 48min
DUANE L. CADY - Philosopher, Author of Moral Vision: How Everyday Life Shapes Ethical Thinking & From Warism to Pacifism
How can we resolve conflicts without compromising our ethics and moral vision? Each year, wars are being fought in our name or with our support that citizens never get an opportunity to vote on. How can we make our voices heard?“Warism, taking war for granted as morally acceptable, even morally required, is the primary obstacle to peace.” Duane L. Cady is a philosopher and Professor Emeritus at Hamline University. He was nominated for the 1991 Grawemeyer World Order Award, was named Outstanding Educator of the Year by the United Methodist Foundation for Higher Education, and a festschiff in his honor was published in 2012. Cady is best known for his works on pacifism, including Moral Vision: How Everyday Life Shapes Ethical Thinking, and From Warism to Pacifism: A Moral Continuum."So when I think about the importance of the liberal arts and the humanities, they literally are the skills that free us. I think our freedom depends on the liberal arts, learning about music, learning about mathematics, learning about history, reading books, the kinds of things that we need that are not going to turn into a market job, at least not immediately. But employers understand they need people who can think, and who are articulate when it comes to speaking and writing. And I also think the humanities generally are well-named because they in fact humanize us. Once we see the rich literature, artwork, theater, and so on, of previous generations, it gives us a much deeper perspective on who we might be, and how we might put our freedom and lives to good use."https://duanelcady.comwww.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Nov 29, 2023 • 50min
HOWARD GARDNER - Author of A Synthesizing Mind & Frames of Mind: The Theory of Multiple Intelligences - Co-director of The Good Project
How do we define intelligence? What is the point of creativity and intelligence if we are not creating good in the world? In this age of AI, what is the importance of a synthesizing mind?Howard Gardner, Research Professor of Cognition and Education at the Harvard Graduate School of Education, an author of over 30 books, translated into 32 languages, and several hundred articles, is best known for his theory of multiple intelligences, a critique of the notion that there exists but a single human intelligence that can be assessed by standard psychometric instruments. He has twice been selected by Foreign Policy and Prospect magazines as one of the 100 most influential public intellectuals in the world. In the last few years, Gardner has been studying the nature of human synthesizing, a topic introduced in his 2020 memoir, A Synthesizing Mind.For 28 years, with David Perkins, he was Co-Director of Harvard Project Zero, and in more recent years has served in a variety of leadership positions. Since the middle 1990s, Gardner has directed The Good Project, a group of initiatives, founded in collaboration with psychologists Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi and William Damon. The project promotes excellence, engagement, and ethics in education, preparing students to become good workers and good citizens who contribute to the overall well-being of society. Through research-based concepts, frameworks, and resources, The Good Project seeks to help students reflect upon the ethical dilemmas that arise in everyday life and give them the tools to make thoughtful decisions."And I became interested in synthesis and I wrote the memoir quite a while ago, but now with the advent of large language instruments or ChatGPT, the pressure to figure out what synthesis is, what these computing systems can or can't do that human beings are still the privileged cohort in carrying out those tasks, that's made the interest in synthesis more important than ever. If we're trying to decide what policy to cover, whether it's an economic policy about interest rates, or whether - we're talking now during the beginning of the war in the Middle East - what policies to follow militarily, economically, and ethically. For that matter, do we entrust that to some kind of a computational system, or is this something that human judgment needs to be brought to bear? And if so, how and at what point? And these are quintessential synthesizing questions. You can't just look up and say, 'Well, what should we do with the Gaza Strip? Or what should we do in Japan, which has had low interest rates, but the rest of the world has got very high inflation.' These are not things where we just want to press a button and get the answer. These are things we want to discuss and debate and review and maybe even pit one large language instrument against another and see do they come up with the same answers. They might well not."www.howardgardner.comhttp://thegoodproject.orghttps://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262542838/a-synthesizing-mindwww.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Nov 27, 2023 • 36min
Speaking Out of Place: BILL McKIBBEN, Co-Founder of 350.org, Founder Third Act & CAROLINE LEVINE, Author of The Activist Humanist
In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with legendary climate activist Bill McKibben and scholar Caroline Levine. McKibben relates his long struggle to get companies to divest from fossil fuels and for the world in general to act immediately to seriously and substantially address this existential crisis. Levine tells of her efforts to get the giant pension fund, TIAA-CREF, to divest. She also talks about her new book, The Activist Humanist, and its relation to both her teaching and her activism.Bill McKibben is founder of Third Act, which organizes people over the age of 60 for action on climate and justice. His 1989 book The End of Nature is regarded as the first book for a general audience about climate change, and has appeared in 24 languages. He’s gone on to write 20 books, and his work appears regularly in periodicals from the New Yorker to Rolling Stone. He serves as the Schumann Distinguished Scholar in Environmental Studies at Middlebury College, as a fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and he has won the Gandhi Peace Prize as well as honorary degrees from 20 colleges and universities. He was awarded the Right Livelihood Award, sometimes called the alternative Nobel, in the Swedish Parliament. Foreign Policy named him to its inaugural list of the world’s 100 most important global thinkers.McKibben helped found 350.org, the first global grassroots climate campaign, which has organized protests on every continent, including Antarctica, for climate action. He played a leading role in launching the opposition to big oil pipeline projects like Keystone XL, and the fossil fuel divestment campaign, which has become the biggest anti-corporate campaign in history, with endowments worth more than $40 trillion stepping back from oil, gas and coal. He stepped down as board chair of 350 in 2015, and left the board and stepped down from his volunteer role as senior adviser in 2020, accepting emeritus status. He lives in the mountains above Lake Champlain with his wife, the writer Sue Halpern, where he spends as much time as possible outdoors. In 2014, biologists credited his career by naming a new species of woodland gnat—Megophthalmidia mckibbeni–in his honor.Caroline Levine has spent her career asking how and why the humanities and the arts matter, especially in democratic societies. She argues for an understanding of forms and structures as essential both to understanding links between art and society and to the challenge of taking meaningful political action. She is the author of four books. The most recent, The Activist Humanist: Form and Method in the Climate Crisis (Princeton University Press 2023), grows out of the theoretical work of Forms: Whole, Rhythm, Hierarchy, Network (2015, winner of the James Russell Lowell Prize from the MLA, and named one of Flavorwire’s “10 Must-Read Academic Books of 2015”). Levine has also published The Serious Pleasures of Suspense: Victorian Realism and Narrative Doubt (2003, winner of the Perkins Prize for the best book in narrative studies) and Provoking Democracy: Why We Need the Arts (2007)."Viewed one way, we live in a very hopeful moment. Thanks to in large part the work of university scientists and engineers, we now live on a planet where the cheapest way to produce power is to point a sheet of glass at the sun. That is to say, we could run our Earth on energy from heaven instead of hell, and we could do it fast. The fast is the hard part here. The only difference between all the examples of the long victories of social justice activism that we're in now is that this one is a time-limited problem. If we don't solve it fast, then no one's got a plan for how you refreeze the Arctic once you've melted it. And so we have to move very quickly. Our systems are not designed to move quickly. It's the easiest thing in the world to slow down and delay change, which is all that the fossil fuel industry at this point is trying to do, and that means that it's time for maximum effort from all of us. The story to tell is that the planet is outside its comfort zone, so we need to be outside ours."https://billmckibben.comhttps://350.orghttps://thirdact.orghttps://english.cornell.edu/caroline-levinehttps://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691250588/the-activist-humanisthttps://tiaa-divest.orgwww.palumbo-liu.com https://speakingoutofplace.comhttps://twitter.com/palumboliu?s=20

Nov 24, 2023 • 51min
GLADYS KALEMA-ZIKUSOKA - Founder/CEO, Conservation Through Public Health - UN Champion of the Earth for Science & Innovation
How do some people face incredible tragedies and find within these experiences inspiration to improve the lives of others? Our guest today lost her grandfather, who was the assassinated Prime Minister of the Buganda Kingdom, and her father, who was disappeared by Idi Amin, and yet she went on to become a leading conservationist.Dr. Gladys Kalema-Zikusoka is Uganda's first full-time wildlife veterinarian and the Founder and CEO of Conservation Through Public Health. Interested in animals from a young age, she pursued her studies at the Royal Veterinary College at the University of London before returning to Uganda. In the time since, she's worked tirelessly to preserve the animals of Uganda, being awarded the Whitley Gold Award, Sierra Club Earth Care Award, Edinburgh Medal, National Geographic Explorer, and most recently an appointment to become a United Nations Champion of the Earth for Science and Innovation. She is author of Walking with Gorillas: The Journey of an African Wildlife Vet."I have always wanted to be around animals and growing up, I cannot remember a time when there were no pets at home. My elder brother Apollo Katerega, who was 10 years older than me, also liked animals, especially dogs and was always bringing stray dogs and cats home. I was the last born of six children. My sister, Veronica Nakibule, who I followed, was five years older than me so were just outside each other's age bracket for playing. Thus the pets at home became my main companions, and we developed a strong bond.Along the way, I eventually fulfilled my lifelong dream to not only become a veterinarian, but a wildlife veterinarian. In 1996, I began to take care of the critically endangered mountain gorillas of Uganda. Since then, they've increased in number from six hundred and fifty to 1,063 individuals in Uganda, Rwanda, and the Democratic Republic of Congo(DRC). There are no mountain gorillas surviving in zoos outside their range countries, and their only hope is to keep the population thriving where they are naturally found.The gorillas have shaped my life's calling since I first studied them as a student at the Royal Veterinary College, University of London. I've treated them as the first full-time wildlife veterinarian in Uganda and supported them as Founder and Chief Executive Officer of a grassroots NGO and nonprofit, Conservation Through Public Health, more commonly known as 'CTPH,' that promotes biodiversity conservation through not only improving the health of gorillas and other wildlife, but also the health and wellbeing of the people and livestock with whom they share their fragile habitats."www.ctph.orghttps://www.skyhorsepublishing.com/9781950994267/walking-with-gorillas/www.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Nov 20, 2023 • 50min
MARY HAYASHI - Healthcare Advocate, Former Assemblymember - Author of Women in Politics
A recent UN report shows that women are underrepresented at all levels of decision-making worldwide. They say that women in executive government positions and gender equality in the highest positions of power will not be reached for another 130 years. How can we close the gender gap and achieve true representation?With a distinguished career in public service, Mary Hayashi has spearheaded substantial reforms in mental health services, championed gender equality, and forged powerful, unprecedented partnerships for social causes that previously had no financial or public backing. Recognized as “Legislator of the Year” by the American Red Cross and the California Medical Association, Mary has also been featured on Redbook’s “Mothers and Shakers” list and Ladies’ Home Journal ’s “Women to Watch.” Mary remains a steadfast proponent of social justice expansion and the rights of underrepresented communities. She is author of Far From Home: Shattering the Myth of the Model Minority, and Women in Politics: Breaking Down the Barriers to Achieve True Representation."My parents expected me to go to college just enough that I could find somebody, marry, and have kids. Because over 21, you're like an old maid and nobody's going to want to marry you. That was really their mentality. I'd only been in the country for seven years at that time and just kind of feeling lost and didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. And one day I signed up for this Women's Studies class. And I thought it was more about how I could be a better woman to my husband and my kids, that type of home economics class. And that's when I was introduced to feminist literature. And I started reading about the women's movement and how Gloria Steinem went from being a Playboy model to becoming a feminist and how that transpired. And when I started reading about these women who did what they did, a light bulb went on my head that I actually could have a career and do something with my life. And so, I'm not a professional writer. I'm a politician. I do government affairs work but publishing a book is a way to help other women realize their path because that's what feminist literature did for me."www.maryhayashi.comhttps://womeninpoliticsbook.orgwww.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Nov 13, 2023 • 11min
Highlights - LEAH THOMAS - Author of The Intersectional Environmentalist: How to Dismantle Systems of Oppression to Protect People + Planet
"Intersectional Environmentalism to me means prioritizing social justice in environmental movements and really thinking about what communities are most impacted by different environmental injustices. So, for example, in the United States, a lot of communities of color, Black, Indigenous communities, and also lower-income communities struggle with things like unclean air and unclean water, and those are environmental injustices. So I thought it was important to have an intersectional approach to environmental advocacy that doesn't ignore these things and these intersections of identity, but explores them to make sure that every community, especially those most impacted by environmental injustices, no longer are. And I wanted to write a really accessible introduction that was targeted at school kids or anyone who wants to learn more."Leah Thomas is an intersectional environmental activist and eco-communicator based in Southern California. She’s passionate about advocating for and exploring the relationship between social justice and environmentalism and was the first to define the term “Intersectional Environmentalism.” She is the founder of @greengirlleah and The Intersectional Environmentalist platform. Her articles on this topic have appeared in Vogue, Elle, The Good Trade, and Youth to the People and she has been featured in Harper’s Bazaar, W Magazine, Domino, GOOP, Fashionista, BuzzFeed, and numerous podcasts. She has a B.S. in Environmental Science and Policy from Chapman University and worked for the National Park Service and Patagonia headquarters before pursuing activism full time. She lives in Carpinteria, California. She is the author of The Intersectional Environmentalist: How to Dismantle Systems of Oppression to Protect People + Planet, and Winner of the Creative Force Foundation Award 2023.www.intersectionalenvironmentalist.com www.instagram.com/greengirlleah www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/leah-thomas/the-intersectional-environmentalist/9780316281935/?lens=voraciousSeason 2 of Business & Society focuses on CEOs , Sustainability & Environmental Solutions Business & Society is a limited series co-hosted by Bruce Piasecki & Mia Funkwww.oneplanetpodcast.org

Nov 13, 2023 • 37min
LEAH THOMAS - Author of The Intersectional Environmentalist - Founder of IE Platform & @GreenGirlLeah
Leah Thomas, an intersectional environmental activist, discusses the importance of prioritizing social justice in environmental movements and addressing environmental injustices faced by marginalized communities. They highlight the significance of representation in climate justice and the work of the intersectional environmentalist platform. The podcast also explores the contributions of Hazel Johnson and Dr. Robert Bullard in uncovering toxic waste and establishing environmental justice. Leah shares personal experiences related to privilege and prejudice, as well as their journey in writing and cultivating a community of environmental advocates.

Nov 11, 2023 • 10min
Highlights - ANDREW KLAVAN - Journalist, Podcast Host, Author of True Crime - The House of Love and Death - Don’t Say a Word
"Resolved questions don't actually make for good drama, and they don't actually help people on their own journeys. If you just tell people that you have all the answers, which I don't, then you're, first of all, lying to them. And second of all, you're boring. And it's just a lecture and propaganda that you're giving people.A story can be interpreted, but a great story can be interpreted different ways because you're looking at it from different angles. And there might be wrong interpretations, but there might be many correct interpretations. And so I'm not looking for...I'm not telling allegories. I'm trying to communicate a vision of life. I'm trying to communicate what I've seen of life to you. That, to me, is what art is. It is the communication of the internal experience of being human.But when you look at your life, where does the joy come from? It comes from growing. It comes from changing. It comes from finding out something, having something happen to you that never happened before. And I think that it's very encouraging to me that if you are growing towards something infinite, there's no end to that journey. You can always become better and more and life can become more abundant."What makes a good drama? What advantages do human storytellers have over their AI counterparts? Where do ideas come from? And what do spiritual beliefs share with artists' faith in the creative process?Andrew Klavan is the author of such internationally bestselling crime novels as True Crime, filmed by Clint Eastwood, Don’t Say A Word, filmed starring Michael Douglas, Empire of Lies and When Christmas Comes. He has been nominated for the Mystery Writers of America’s Edgar Award five times and has won twice. He wrote the screenplays to A Shock to The System starring Michael Caine, One Missed Call starring Edward Burns, and Gosnell: The Trial of America’s Biggest Serial Killer starring Dean Cain. His essays have appeared in the Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and the Los Angeles Times, his political satire videos have been viewed by tens of millions of people, and he hosts a popular podcast The Andrew Klavan Show at the Daily Wire. He is also the author of a memoir about his religious journey The Great Good Thing: A Secular Jew Comes to Faith in Christ and the USA Today bestseller The Truth and Beauty: How the Lives and Works of England's Greatest Poets Point the Way to a Deeper Understanding of the Words of Jesus. His latest crime novel is The House of Love and Death, the third book in the Cameron Winter series.www.andrewklavan.comwww.amazon.com/House-Death-Cameron-Winter-Mysteries/dp/1613164467www.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Nov 10, 2023 • 53min
ANDREW KLAVAN - Edgar Award-winning Author of The House of Love and Death - True Crime - Don’t Say a Word
What makes a good drama? What advantages do human storytellers have over their AI counterparts? Where do ideas come from? And what do spiritual beliefs share with artists' faith in the creative process?Andrew Klavan is the author of such internationally bestselling crime novels as True Crime, filmed by Clint Eastwood, Don’t Say A Word, filmed starring Michael Douglas, Empire of Lies and When Christmas Comes. He has been nominated for the Mystery Writers of America’s Edgar Award five times and has won twice. He wrote the screenplays to A Shock to The System starring Michael Caine, One Missed Call starring Edward Burns, and Gosnell: The Trial of America’s Biggest Serial Killer starring Dean Cain. His essays have appeared in the Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and the Los Angeles Times, his political satire videos have been viewed by tens of millions of people, and he hosts a popular podcast The Andrew Klavan Show at the Daily Wire. He is also the author of a memoir about his religious journey The Great Good Thing: A Secular Jew Comes to Faith in Christ and the USA Today bestseller The Truth and Beauty: How the Lives and Works of England's Greatest Poets Point the Way to a Deeper Understanding of the Words of Jesus. His latest crime novel is The House of Love and Death, the third book in the Cameron Winter series."Resolved questions don't actually make for good drama, and they don't actually help people on their own journeys. If you just tell people that you have all the answers, which I don't, then you're, first of all, lying to them. And second of all, you're boring. And it's just a lecture and propaganda that you're giving people.A story can be interpreted, but a great story can be interpreted different ways because you're looking at it from different angles. And there might be wrong interpretations, but there might be many correct interpretations. And so I'm not looking for...I'm not telling allegories. I'm trying to communicate a vision of life. I'm trying to communicate what I've seen of life to you. That, to me, is what art is. It is the communication of the internal experience of being human.But when you look at your life, where does the joy come from? It comes from growing. It comes from changing. It comes from finding out something, having something happen to you that never happened before. And I think that it's very encouraging to me that if you are growing towards something infinite, there's no end to that journey. You can always become better and more and life can become more abundant."www.andrewklavan.comwww.amazon.com/House-Death-Cameron-Winter-Mysteries/dp/1613164467www.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Nov 10, 2023 • 13min
Highlights - MICHAEL S. ROTH - President of Wesleyan University - Author of The Student: A Short History
“So I wrote this book and it was a lot of fun because I had to learn so much. The book examines three iconic teachers: Confucius, Socrates, and Jesus. And I look at how each of those teachers encourage a certain kind of student. The student as follower, someone who will take on the path that you've developed. In the case of Socrates, the student as critical interlocutor or critical conversation partner, someone who will, in dialogue with you, learn what they don't know, how to take things apart. And in the case of Jesus and the apostles, I look at trying to imitate a way of life to transform themselves to strive towards being the kind of person that Jesus incarnated. And so that's the beginning of the book, these models of studenthood, if I could use that word, and being a teacher. And then I look at the way in which these ideas reverberate in the West across a long period of time. So I'm interested in the idea of the student before there were schools. What did we expect young people to learn even when they weren't going to school?”What is the purpose of education? How are we educating students for the future? What is the importance of the humanities in this age of AI and the rapidly changing workplace?Michael S. Roth is President of Wesleyan University. His books include Beyond the University: Why Liberal Education Matters and Safe Enough Spaces: A Pragmatist’s Approach to Inclusion, Free Speech, and Political Correctness on College Campuses. He's been a Professor of History and the Humanities since 1983, was the Founding Director of the Scripps College Humanities Institute, and was the Associate Director of the Getty Research Institute. His scholarly interests center on how people make sense of the past, and he has authored eight books around this topic, including his latest, The Student: A Short History.https://www.wesleyan.edu/academics/faculty/mroth/profile.htmlhttps://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300250039/the-student/www.wesleyan.eduhttps://twitter.com/mroth78www.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast