People of the Pod

Following Hamas’ October 7 massacre of Israelis Jews around the world have experienced a  surge of antisemitism. We checked in with some of AJC’s global experts  to learn what they’ve been seeing and hearing on the ground and to understand what efforts are underway to protect Jews and counter this hate. In the first of two installments, we hear from AJC Europe Managing Director Simone Rodan Benzaquen, AJC Africa Director Wayne Sussman, and Dina Siegel Vann, Director of AJC’s Belfer Institute on Latin American Affairs. Take action to bring all hostages home now. *The views and opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect the views or position of AJC.  Episode Lineup:  (0:40) Simone Rodan Benzaquen (7:09) Wayne Sussman (14:54) Dina Siegel Vann Show Notes: Listen – People of the Pod on the Israel-Hamas War: What Happens Next: AJC’s Avital Leibovich on the Hostage Deal and Challenges Ahead What Would You Do If Your Son Was Kidnapped by Hamas? The Good, the Bad, and the Death Threats: What It’s Like to Be a Jewish College Student Right Now Mai Gutman Was Supposed to Be at the Music Festival: IDF Lone Soldier Recounts Harrowing Week Responding to Hamas Terror: IsraAID CEO on How You Can Help Israelis Right Now Learn: Debunking the False Equivalency Between Israeli Hostages and Palestinian Prisoners How much do you know about Hamas? Try to ace our quiz and expose the truth about the terror group today. Follow People of the Pod on your favorite podcast app, and learn more at AJC.org/PeopleofthePod You can reach us at: peopleofthepod@ajc.org If you’ve appreciated this episode, please be sure to tell your friends, and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Transcript of Interview with Simone Rodan Benzaquen, Wayne Sussman, and Dina Siegel Vann: Manya Brachear Pashman: American Jewish Committee has 14 international offices around the world. For today’s episode, we checked in with some of those offices to learn what they're seeing and hearing on the ground since the October 7 Hamas terrorist attack on Israel. Today, we take you to Europe, Africa and Latin America. We start in Paris, where years of work to combat rising antisemitism has seen a serious setback. For more than two decades, since the Second Intifada, antisemitism has been on the rise on the European continent. In fact, it was that ripple effect that prompted AJC to ramp up its advocacy there. AJC Managing Director of Europe Simone Rodan Benzaquen joined us from Paris. Simone Rodan Benzaquen: What we have seen, I think, in Europe is more or less what we've seen, everywhere, what can only be described as an explosion of antisemitism across the European continent, I would say, mostly in Western Europe, here in France in particular, but also in the United Kingdom, we have seen the same. In Germany, we have seen similar things going on in Sweden and Denmark. But of course, here in France, where antisemitism has existed for at least two decades, or at least this contemporary form of antisemitism, for the past two decades with high numbers of antisemitic hate crimes. The situation is very, very serious. We've had basically three times the number of antisemitic hate crimes, since October 7 of what we had during the entire year, last year.   We have desecration of cemeteries, we have antisemitic tags. We have intimidation, we have spitting on people. It is as if the sheer horror, the violence that happened on October 7, unleashed an antisemitic passion, an antisemitic violence across the world. As if the horrible images that were filmed by the Hamas terrorists on October 7 sort of was a legitimization. Manya Brachear Pashman: So what does that mean for the Jewish community and daily life? Simone Rodan Benzaquen: We’ve reached a point where people are hiding every single aspect of their Jewish identity. People are changing their names on their delivery apps, people are changing their names on their doorbells, if they believe that they sound Jewish. People are hiding every single aspect of their Jewish identity. On Uber apps, on taxi apps, myself, you know, I go on TV and do interviews quite a bit and so I give a different name to the taxi, and I give a different address a few blocks down the street is to be sure that you know, just in case, the taxi driver doesn't know where I actually live. So everybody takes precautions. It’s gotten to a point where we just don't live the same life as everybody else. Manya Brachear Pashman: Has the work you’ve done over the past two decades made a difference? For example, since the Second Intifada, there have been a number of conflicts between Israel and terrorist groups in Gaza. Do you see progress? Simone Rodan Benzaquen: We in Europe have felt like we've been doing a little bit of the work of Sisyphus over the past two decades, where we have moments of hope and things are getting better. And we say to ourselves, oh, maybe this is a wakeup call. And sort of, then we go back to, you know, before. And I hope that this this time around, given the level of violence, given the level of antisemitic hate crimes, given the number of sheer antisemitic attacks.  When you actually take it down, you come to on average about 40 antisemitic acts a day. I mean, that's huge for a population that represents far less than 1% of the entire French population. I hope this will serve as a wakeup call. But there is the question of what does it mean, how do you translate it politically? How do you translate it into government action? I mean, Europe has come up with different plans, action plans against antisemitism, but it's not enough and more needs to be done. I think one of the things that we as Jewish communities were very wary about was the fact that  over the past sort of two decades, there was sort of a lack of how can I say, solidarity from other French people. Again, we've had antisemitic hate crimes for the last 20 years, people have been murdered. But every single time, when you look at the demonstrations, at the marches after something horrible happened, you would mostly have a few hundred, or maybe a few thousand Jews in the streets.  And so there was sort of a feeling that within the French Jewish community that they were a little bit abandoned by the rest of society. And so we know from our surveys, AJC does a survey every two years where we know that, for example, French people, and Germans as well, are convinced about the fact that antisemitism is not the problem of Jews alone, but that of the entire society.  So both in Germany and in France, 73% of the population say that it is not the problem of Jews alone. But despite that number, it has never sort of translated into something concrete. So we would never have marches. We would never have like sort of big shows of solidarity with the Jewish community. And I think, since, if there's one good news, and there's not a lot of good news these days, if there's one good news is that last Sunday there were massive demonstrations across France, against antisemitism with basically the entire political class were present, with 20 government ministers who were present, with a prime minister who was present, with three former prime ministers who were present, two former presidents, plus a lot of people on the streets. We had over 180,000 people in the streets of France, basically expressing solidarity with the Jewish community and saying that they want to fight against antisemitism. So I think that was a sort of a very important sign of hope for many French Jews. …. Manya Brachear Pashman: Now we go to the continent of Africa, where AJC Africa Director Wayne Sussman joins us from the South African city of Johannesburg to explain how the war that began on October 7 affects Israel’s relations with African countries.  Wayne Sussman: I would say the tensest of the relationships right now is between Israel and South Africa. The Ambassador of Israel to South Africa received a démarche.  So when the first two countries to recall their ambassadors were South Africa and Chad. When it comes to Chad, that was more unexpected than South Africa. Because relations were recently increasing between Chad and Israel. Sadly–and one's got to remember that the largest Jewish community in Africa by a country mile is in South Africa. But sadly, the government of South Africa has had a very adversarial relationship with the State of Israel over the last few years. And this has manifested in the last few weeks. Manya Brachear Pashman: Because of this antagonistic relationship with Israel, has the South African Jewish community faced quite a bit of antisemitism? Wayne Sussman: Even though the current government of South Africa has had an adversarial relationship with the State of Israel, levels of antisemitism are extremely low–far lower than Europe, far lower than Latin America, far lower than the United States of America, far lower than Canada, far lower than Australia.  So we are working off a very low base here in South Africa. But over the last few weeks, antisemitic incidents have increased. For the time being, levels of violent incidents have been low. A turning point was on Sunday afternoon in Cape Town on the Sea Point Promenade, just to zone in on Sea Point, where the majority of Jews in Cape Town live. And the promenade is a beautiful public space, which all residents of the city use.  And what we saw the day before was a pro-Palestinian demonstration through the streets of the City of Cape Town. It was a largely peaceful protest. There were pockets of the protests, which had hateful slogans and made concerning threats against the main Jewish Day School in Cape Town.  And then the next day, a group of Christians at the Sea Point Promenade, which I referred to earlier, which is in the Jewish neighborhood of Sea Point, were going to have a prayer vigil for the State of Israel. They had a stage set up, microphones, etc. And a group of 200 to 300 pro-Palestinian, pro-Hamas supporters sympathizers came and disrupted it. And the police had to get involved and use water cannons. It's very rare for us to see sights like this in South Africa, particularly in Sea Point. Manya Brachear Pashman: So what I’m hearing you say is the antagonism toward Israel doesn’t normally translate into antagonism that targets the Jewish community there? Wayne Sussman: One of the worrying sides we see is our threats against, first of all, multinational corporations. I think these threats will not be impactful. But what is more concerning are privately owned Jewish businesses. And we have seen specific targets in this regard. Because of  the CEOs of these businesses purporting to support and stand with Israel. But I think we need to see how successful these are going to be.  But I think the community is incredibly united right now. They are standing strong. And it's vital because this is a very important Jewish community in South Africa. A rich history, this community has made a remarkable contribution to the fight against apartheid, to building this economy, to creating jobs in the field of medicine and law, to arts and culture, and even some in sport. Manya Brachear Pashman: There was a United Nations resolution calling for a truce. I believe 35 African states voted in favor of that resolution but Cameroon and Ethiopia abstained. Can you shed a little light on where other African countries stand? Wayne Sussman: I would say the overwhelming amount of countries have adopted a neutral position that might change when we come to the United Nations and a multinational forum on the African continent like the African Union. But countries like Kenya, who under the new president have stood firmly and strongly with Israel. Countries, like Zambia have shown a lot of empathy towards Israel. That's a version relationship. And then we look at countries in the west of Africa, Togo and Cameroon. They've historically had very strong ties with Israel, those ties remain. And then you have countries like the Democratic Republic of Congo and Rwanda, those countries have stood firmly with Israel at this time. An interesting development. And again, this is a very fluid situation. But Indian Ocean islands like Mauritius, and Seychelles, where I was, I've been surprised at their even-handedness on this particular situation.  Ethiopia is a fascinating country. It’s a country which for many years had remarkable levels of economic growth, a very young population, one of the largest populations in Africa, also the center of the African Union, and also the hub of African air travel. And, of course, a country where many of Israel’s citizens hail from and still maintain deep personal ties to. So I think that Ethiopia abstaining was very, very interesting in that regard. And that ties will be stronger between the two countries after this. Manya Brachear Pashman: I should note that Sudan and Morocco, two signatories of the Abraham Accords, did vote in favor of a truce. Do you see those ties weakened by all of this? Wayne Sussman: I think universally, it's going to be a challenging time for Israel. But I think once the dust settles, that you will see countries like Morocco return to embracing normalization. You'll see countries like Zambia, who are not part of the Abraham Accords, but are deepening ties, I think they will continue to do that. So I think the next few days and weeks will be very difficult. But again, back to what I was saying earlier, from a bilateral level, I think African countries are pragmatic.  Those which were considering the Abraham Accords will see the benefit with regards to Israel, agritech Israel in fintech, Israel in rural health care, Israel in rural development. I think countries have seen a great benefit in deepening those ties. So it is going to be tested, certainly in places like the United Nations, certainly in forums like the African Union.  What's very interesting, there was an interview in a Saudi Arabian newspaper recently with the president of Somalia. And he was very bullish, saying that if Israel and the Palestinians agreed to a two-state solution, that it would be right for Somalia to engage in peaceful relations with Israel.  So even though we're in a very difficult and dark time, and it's unclear what's going to happen, we’re seeing signs from Somalia, which is obviously in Africa, and also signs in Saudi Arabia, that even once the dust settles over here, that diplomatic doors will still remain open. …. Manya Brachear Pashman: In July 1994, terrorists bombed the AMIA Jewish Community Center in Buenos Aires, killing 85 people and injuring more than 300 others. From that point on, the Argentine capital became known as the site of the worst and most fatal antisemitic attack since the Holocaust. That distinction changed on October 7 when terrorists breached the border between Israel and Gaza and murdered more than 1,200 people. As the Director of AJC’s Belfer Institute for Latin American Affairs Dina Siegel Vann explains, it has not been an easy time for Jews on the South American continent or other Spanish-speaking regions.  Dina Siegel Vann: Some of the countries that have really concerned us the most, are countries like Colombia, which in the past used to be the most steadfast ally of the United States and of Israel. But since the arrival of President Petro, who is a leftist ideologue, I would say, this has changed. And since October 7, we have seen really the country go in a totally different direction, which is really endangering the relationship not only with Israel, but with the United States.  Colombia, President Petro has tweeted on October 8, he was already tweeting, where he was comparing Gaza to Auschwitz, where he was talking about international bankers, and he was talking about, the media, international media being on the side of those who commit genocide.  So, you know, that has already made for a very rarefied environment, in terms of relations, as I said, both with the United States and what Israel. He also threatened through his foreign minister, the expulsion of the Israeli ambassador who was responding to his attacks, and now he has recalled his ambassador to Israel. Manya Brachear Pashman: Chile also has been unfriendly, but that’s been the case for a while. It is home to the largest Palestinian diaspora outside the Middle East, and leaders of that community have expressed support for Hamas. But AJC will hold its annual strategic forum for Latin American and Iberian leaders in Santiago this month. Can you give us the lay of the land there?  Dina Siegel Vann: So what has happened since is that President Boric, who, you know, who identifies with those positions of the Palestinian community has also had very hostile attitudes towards Israel. Number one, you know, he has not met with the Jewish community, he has not expressed his condolences, he hasn't expressed his condolences to Israel, and to the families of the victims. And he has also spoken, you know, mostly about what is going on in Gaza, and has characterized Israel's efforts to defend itself as genocidal as crimes against humanity, etc. And that also has created a very very vulnerable sense in the Jewish community in Chile that feels, you know, totally alone when it comes to this development. So I would say that Chile and Colombia have been the most egregious cases. Particularly because we're not talking about insignificant countries in the region, we're talking about Colombia, which is the third largest recipient of U.S. aid after Israel and Egypt. And we're talking about a country like Chile, who has always been or considers itself a paragon of human rights, not only in the region, but around the world. So their voices count, and that's why, you know, it concerns us a great deal. Manya Brachear Pashman: As I mentioned at the beginning of this conversation, until October 7, the worst antisemitic attack since the Holocaust had taken place in Argentina in 1994, carried out by Iran’s terror proxy, Hezbollah. And just recently, Brazilian police detained a couple of Hezbollah operatives who were in the country with plans to attack Brazilian Jewish institutions, correct?  Dina Siegel Vann: It underscores the really, really dangerous role that Iran plays in the region. And we know firsthand about it, because of course, the attacks in 1992 and 1994. But we know about it also, because of the tri-border area, where we know that Hezbollah and Hamas are very active, undertaking all kinds of money laundering activities. It's very important that we keep a focus on that. I think the U.S. is very, very keen on following very closely what's going on in that area, and in other areas in other areas of the region, including Venezuela, which has been the gateway to Iran in the region. Iran is very well positioned in that country and has ties to President Maduro. Started with President Chavez and it has continued with President Maduro.  So we need to keep in focus, when we talk about, you know, potentially dangerous scenarios, not only from lead for Latin America, but for the United States for the whole hemisphere., this, you know, Iran is quite  active. And is really, you know, thinking about how to create mischief, you know, whether in Brazil or elsewhere.We don't remember that, you know, that we have really a dangerous situation very close in our own neighborhood. Manya Brachear Pashman: You have told me that 30% of the hostages hail from Latin America: Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, Mexico, 15 from Argentina.  Dina Siegel Vann: Yes. Well, I have to say that Argentina, for example, President Fernandez published in the New York Times a half a page with a letter an open letter demanding that the hostages be brought home and talking about their own hostages their own citizens. So yeah, absolutely. I mean, the hostages are traveling, there's some hostages from Latin American families that are traveling all around the region, meeting with members of Congress meeting with government officials and others and the media to raise more awareness about the issue and pressure the governments, their own governments to to speak up, you know, on on on, on behalf on to bring that these hostages home.  Manya Brachear Pashman: Since recording this episode, many of those hostages with Latin American citizenship have been able to return home. Of course, there are still so many hostages– nearly 160. To push for their safe return, listeners can head to AJC.org/BringThemHome or follow the link in our show notes.  Dina, take us back to Europe–tell us about the situation in Spain.  Dina Siegel Vann: Spain has been a mixed bag, because you have President Sanchez and Foreign Minister Alvarez has come out from the very beginning with very strong signs of support towards Israel, recognizing Hamas as a terrorist organization recognizes Israel's right to defend itself. But they they were in the process of creating a government and they need some of the more radical parties, independent parties, and, you know, some other parties like Soomad, who are very anti-Israel, they needed them to form coalition's and this parties were speaking, you know, in very vile terms regarding Israel, and really indulging on some antisemitic themes, and President Sanchez, didn't come out publicly as well as, you know, Foreign Minister Robotis to denounce them. But at the same time, they made clear that everybody understood that in foreign policy, what counts is the voice of the President and the voice of the foreign minister.  They met with the Jewish community, they expressed their their their solidarity, they express their concern about antisemitism, they met with the families of the kidnapped. So they have really tried to, you know, to keep a very balanced and very difficult position, vis a vis, their current situation. They formed a government yesterday, the government was finally formed. And maybe at this point, they will be more, they'll have more leeway to come out to protest this type of discourse.  But at the same time, you know, in Spain, you have seen some vandalism, you have seen some intimidation in schools against Jews and Israelis. So as I said, it's a mixed bag. And we are still monitoring this very carefully. Spain wants to be a leader, wants to be a convener when it comes to negotiating some sort of peace deal, they did it in the Madrid Conference a while back, they see their role, once again, as you know, as as a liaison, as a bridge between both worlds and therefore, you know, they always try to keep a very careful stance when it comes to both communities.   

From the frontlines of the Israel-Hamas War, Lt. Col. (res.) Avital Leibovich, director of AJC Jerusalem, joins us to discuss the current pause in fighting between Israel and the terror group Hamas, the release of hostages, the significance of international support for Israel, and the challenges the Jewish state faces in the West Bank. Leibovich also provides insights into the humanitarian conditions of the hostages and the broader implications of the conflict.  Take action to bring all hostages home now. *The views and opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect the views or position of AJC.  Episode Lineup:  (0:40) Lt. Col. (res.) Avital Leibovich Show Notes: Listen – People of the Pod on the Israel-Hamas War: What Would You Do If Your Son Was Kidnapped by Hamas? The Good, the Bad, and the Death Threats: What It’s Like to Be a Jewish College Student Right Now Mai Gutman Was Supposed to Be at the Music Festival: IDF Lone Soldier Recounts Harrowing Week Responding to Hamas Terror: IsraAID CEO on How You Can Help Israelis Right Now Watch – Lt. Col. (res.) Avital Leibovich’s War Diary How All Israelis are Affected by the Israel-Hamas War How October 7 "Changed the DNA" of Israelis Forever How Volunteers are Stepping up to Support the IDF Learn: Debunking the False Equivalency Between Israeli Hostages and Palestinian Prisoners What is Known About Israeli Hostages Taken by Hamas How much do you know about Hamas? Try to ace our quiz and expose the truth about the terror group today. Follow People of the Pod on your favorite podcast app, and learn more at AJC.org/PeopleofthePod You can reach us at: peopleofthepod@ajc.org If you’ve appreciated this episode, please be sure to tell your friends, and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Transcript of Interview with Avital Leibovich: Manya Brachear Pashman:   As the pause in fighting between Israel and Hamas terrorists nears its expiration on Thursday, Hamas continues to hold hostage 160 people. 80, including 61 women and children have been released during the pause. In exchange, Israel has freed 180 Palestinian prisoners. Lieutenant Colonel Avital Leibovich, Director of AJC Jerusalem joins us from Israel now for an update. Avital, welcome to People of the Pod and how are you? Avital Leibovich:   Thank you for having me. I am doing well, considering the fact that we are in a war here in Israel. My biggest concern at this time is the well being of my family. My son is in the army, my daughter is on reserve duty. So that's my number one concern. And of course, the well being of Israel, the safety and security of Israel.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   So Avital, what does this pause mean? What is being accomplished during this time? Avital Leibovich:   So the pause is something that Hamas pressured Israel. It pressured Israel because the military pressure was quite significant. The pause allows a few things to happen. Number one, we, Israel will receive hostages, and in return, Israel will free from prison, women and youth that were involved in different planning of terror attacks or executed themselves terror attacks. And that's one thing. The second thing I would say, is time for Hamas to regroup. That's for their benefit. This pause allows them to regroup, rearm, reposition themselves. The third thing and I'm going back to Israel also allows Israeli army to better prepare to rearm to place itself in the right positioning and then be ready for the next stage, which is resumption of the fighting. Manya Brachear Pashman:   And do you expect that fighting to resume right away? Or do you think that Israel would like to extend the pause as long as possible in order to get as many hostages back as possible?  Avital Leibovich:   Yesterday, there were meetings between, actually was a very interesting meeting in Qatar. In the meeting, we had the head of the Egyptian intelligence, the head of the Israeli Mossad, and the Qatari representative, and the American head of the CIA, the American CIA. And in this meeting, the discussion evolved on a few more days of pause, and in return, Hamas will release a few more hostages.  So right now Israel has said that it agrees to a few more days of a pause. But we're only talking about a few more days. The ultimate goal of this war is to eliminate Hamas government in Gaza. And in order to change that government, in order to bring some sort of a new future to this region, to Israel, to Gaza, to the Palestinians living in Gaza, this takes time.  So the fighting I assume will take a long time. It's going to be a long time because Gaza has been built underground and above the ground in such a way that requires inch by inch, very careful work a lot of the time other facilities are booby trapped. There is a huge array of tunnels underground, which are very long. With junctions. Some of the tunnels can even have cars inside. So this has to be a very, very careful job. We have a lot of soldiers inside Gaza right now. And so this pause I would say is temporary. Manya Brachear Pashman:   What are we learning from the hostages who are being released? Avital Leibovich:   That's the most heartbreaking issue. We're learning a few things. The first thing is they had to speak very, very quietly among themselves. Of course, I'm referring to those who had other hostages with them. But those who had other hostages with them had to whisper. And how do we know this because some of the kids are still whispering today, some of the kids that have been held as hostages and just returned from captivity, they're still whispering. Another thing we know is that they had very little food, very little quantities of food, which also brings a lot of worries here in Israel, because there are many elderly people held. There's still a baby inside the toddlers and a few other children. And so the nutrition issue obviously is quite critical.  The third thing we learned is that some of them were held in complete seclusion. One of the children that returned two days ago is a 12 year old boy, by the name of Eitan Yahalomi. His father was murdered, his mother is still alive. And he actually was in a room by himself for at least two weeks. And imagine for a 12 year old to be in this kind of hostile environment, on his own without anybody to communicate, underground, most of the time, that's quite scary.  We also know that they had very poor hygiene conditions, no running water, very, very minimal toilet facilities. We also know they never received any medical care and attention, no medicine, no doctors, nothing of that sort. And the last thing we know is that most of the time they were held underground, in an underground facility, different sizes of rooms. And all of these things are just a small indication of the cruelty of this terror organization called Hamas. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Congress is debating whether to send aid to Israel to support Israel in the war. How important is it at this point? Avital Leibovich:   I think it's very important. First of all, I do want to say that the support that Israel received from the US until now, it's unbelievable. The fact that there are, on the military side the fact that there are our aircraft carriers here in the region, and planes filled with different kinds of ammunition. That sends a very strong message of both deterrence and strength to the enemies in the region. And second, on the political, more strategic level. The voting, the vetoing of the different proposals on the Security Council in the UN, the multiple visits starting from President Biden to Secretary of State Blinken, which he’s supposed to arrive here tomorrow. And also appointing a special envoy to this specific situation that we have here in the region.  So all of these things speak volumes. So yes, I think it's very significant to Israel, and also the future decisions will be significant. Look, being at war for such a long time and 53 days have passed already has serious precautions on different issues. Economy is one of them. Obviously, tourism has stopped, small businesses have been affected and many other sectors as well. So aid would be very, very significant to Israel. Manya Brachear Pashman:   I'm also curious about the security situation in the West Bank. We were so focused on terrorism coming from the West Bank before this happened. What is the situation there now, especially as hostages are being released? Avital Leibovich:   It's a good question, because from where I'm sitting, the West Bank at this point of time is another front that Israel has to deal with at this specific moment. We have a serious challenge with the fact that the Palestinian Authority does not really have governance in many areas in the West Bank. And as a result of that, there are different kinds of terror groups, Hamas is one of them. But it's not the only one, trying to recruit Palestinians to commit different terror attacks. The second side of it is a lot of incitement, which is really flooding the social media platforms, and also has an effect on the mood on the streets on the mood of young people and others as well. So the IDF, the Israeli Defense Forces, actually almost on a daily basis, needs to enter certain areas where there is no prisons, unfortunately, have any Palestinian policemen, and actually arrest those terrorists on the ground. And I think in the last 50 days or so the IDF has arrested more than 1000 people that have been suspicious and with some kind of planning or plotting terror attacks against Israelis. And this does not seem to quiet down I have to say so I am concerned of this front.  At this point of time Hamas is though, by the way, investing a lot of time and effort because Hamas is interest is of course, to create lack of stability here in Israel. So part of that is the instability is trying to influence what's going on in the West Bank and trying to get people out to the streets, either protesting against idea for committing some sort of terror acts against Israelis so that's really an issue of concern for us. Manya Brachear Pashman:   We talked about the importance of American aid, are there other countries that are showing significant support that have been really vital in this war? Avital Leibovich:   I think that we've seen some very important gestures of support by European leaders from the Czech Republic, from Bulgaria, from, from the UK, from France, from Japan, from other countries. But I think the number one country in Europe that really stood up and is still standing up supporting Israel very, very strongly, is maybe Germany. And yesterday, the President of Germany visited Israel and visited one of the kibbutzes, a kibbutz called Be’eri. And a lot of the houses there were burned and dozens of people were murdered and others were kidnapped. And he was so touched and moved. And he said that the government of Germany intends to donate 7 million euros just for the rebuilding and renovating of this community.  But there are other countries as well, and I think Israel has been well supported by the international community. However, the challenge still lays ahead, because we are not at the end of this war. And in order to eliminate Hamas, we need more time. And as this time progresses, there will be a lot more pictures which are not pleasant because pictures from wars are not pleasant pictures. And this may have an impact on different kinds of world leaders. So we have to continue and explain and gain that legitimization so that Israel could complete its goal and continue to defend itself. Manya Brachear Pashman:   I know in conversations with AJC's, Berlin's director Remko Leemhuis, he brought delegations of German officials to Israel. And that has made quite a difference, I think, to see it firsthand. Have there been other delegations from other countries? Avital Leibovich:   So we have hosted here in Israel four delegations with very short notice. I have a great staff in the office, and they were able to create an itinerary, which I think is very experiential on one hand, but on the other hand, is also quite touching. Because how many people in such leadership positions really have the opportunity to really be on the ground and see the situation as it is. So we had here three parliamentary delegations from European countries, East and Western Europe. And we also had here the head of the, the chair of the Foreign Affairs security committee of the German parliament. And I met those three parliamentary delegations, and I briefed them.  And I have to say that with all the information that is out there today in 2023, via the internet and platforms and social media, still there is not a full understanding of the situation. So taking these participants on the ground, showing them those areas, those communities that have been affected, and taking them to a base that has been turned into a morgue. Where, even today, more than 80 bodies and body parts still remain unidentified because of the terrible condition that they came with. And I explained to them the extent of the atrocities. You can only really get it when you're on the ground.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   Avital, once this pause expires, and I know it's unclear when that will be, but you've made it clear that it's inevitable – what comes next? Avital Leibovich:   I think we are heading into a very difficult time ahead. Because once we finish the hostage exchange kind of agreements, then Israel will have to return to the actual fighting part. And Hamas, which is a very bitter psychological warfare enemy will continue and try to stop this fighting in different psychological ways. Israeli leadership will have to make here tough decisions, whether the country agrees, for example, just I'll give you just one idea of such a dilemma.  Let's say Hamas tomorrow morning, or in three days time says, complete and finish the fighting altogether. Stop for the next five years, hold your fire for the next five fears, and in return, we will return all the hostages. Then what, then what do you do as a country? What kind of decision will the government take? Will it still continue with the fighting to eliminate Hamas? Or will it say okay, the life of the hostages are more important and therefore, we are canceling the original goal and stopping the fighting. I don't think that will happen.  But those kinds of dilemmas, I think will escort Israeli leaders in the next couple of days. I think they will be tough, very tough questions ahead that Israel will need to deal with. Another issue that we haven't discussed, is the northern arena. Hamas is a tough enemy. is a cruel enemy. It possesses something like 20,000 rockets, which they used more or less half, maybe a bit more. Because Hezbollah is a totally different ballgame in terms of capabilities in terms of military capabilities in terms of ammunition, precise ammunition and so on. And what will be the policy visa vie Hezbollah. And this is also a question Israel will need to ask itself and I'm sure that the next week or two will have an indication where this country is heading. There's one thing that it's clear to all of us here in Israel, that we cannot go back to the same situation that existed here on October 6–53 days ago. That situation must be changed. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Avital thank you so much for joining us and giving us an update.  Avital Leibovich:   Thank you for the opportunity.

Delve into the unsettling rise of antisemitism on American college campuses, focusing on alarming incidents at Cornell University and Columbia University. Our guests, Molly Goldstein and Elliot Sadoff, both members of AJC's Campus Global Board, share their experiences of Jewish students being targeted in the classroom, physically attacked while raising awareness about kidnapped babies in Gaza, and facing death threats for merely speaking Hebrew. Join us as Molly and Elliott share their perspectives on this surge of antisemitism following the October 7th Hamas attacks, and the solidarity and Jewish pride they are seeing on campus. *The views and opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect the views or position of AJC.  Episode Lineup:  (0:40) Molly Goldstein and Elliot Sadoff Show Notes: Listen – People of the Pod on the Israel-Hamas War: Jewish U.S. Military Veterans’ Message to IDF Soldiers Fighting Hamas: “We’re With You” What Would You Do If Your Son Was Kidnapped by Hamas? Renana Gomeh’s Sons Were Taken Hostage by Hamas: What She Needs You to Do to Bring Them Home Now What Biden’s Wartime Visit to Israel Signals to Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah Mai Gutman Was Supposed to Be at the Music Festival: IDF Lone Soldier Recounts Harrowing Week Responding to Hamas Terror: IsraAID CEO on How You Can Help Israelis Right Now Learn: What is Known About Israeli Hostages Taken by Hamas 7 Ways Hamas Exploits Palestinian Civilians in Gaza How much do you know about Hamas? Try to ace our quiz and expose the truth about the terror group today. AJC Campus Library AJC Campus Global Board Donate: AJC.org/SupportIsrael Follow People of the Pod on your favorite podcast app, and learn more at AJC.org/PeopleofthePod You can reach us at: peopleofthepod@ajc.org If you’ve appreciated this episode, please be sure to tell your friends, and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Transcript of Interview with Molly Goldstein and Elliot Sadoff: Manya Brachear Pashman:   Throughout her studies at Cornell University, junior Molly Goldstein has become passionate about the intersection of international relations, human rights and conflict resolution. She joined AJC's Campus global board last year to develop her Jewish advocacy skills on and off campus. But nothing could have prepared her for what has unfolded this year on Cornell's campus, where nearly a fourth of the students are Jewish. An arrest has been made after a number of posts on an online discussion board threatened extreme violence and death to Jews on campus, specifically identifying the address of Cornell's kosher dining hall.  Likewise, Elliot Sadoff also joined AJC's Campus global board last year. He is a dual degree student at Tel Aviv University and Columbia University, where an Israeli student was physically attacked while hanging posters of kidnapped babies trapped in Gaza. And Jewish students have received death threats and been spat upon for speaking Hebrew. Molly and Elliot are with us now to discuss what they've witnessed as antisemitism related to the Israel Hamas war has emerged at an alarming rate on a number of American college campuses across the country. Elliot, Molly, welcome to People of the Pod. Molly Goldstein:   Thank you for having us.  Elliot Sadoff:   Yeah, thank you. Manya Brachear Pashman:   So I first have to ask, how are you both doing? And how are you coping with the intensity of all of this? Elliot Sadoff:   I mean, I think you can ask anyone how they're doing these days, and it's hard to answer. But definitely holding in there. I've been very lucky the past few weeks because of the program I'm in where I have a lot of students with me who are studying at Tel Aviv University. So we've really formed a tight knit community that's able to support each other throughout these times. With everything going on on campus and around the world. It's a very good support system to have that I don't think a lot of students do. It's not easy to go to class and be looking around you thinking what's going to happen, what are people going to say, what does this professor think? But to have a support system like that is very helpful.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   Molly, how about you? Molly Goldstein:   Over the past month, it's definitely progressed to feeling more and more afraid to be a Jew on campus. But something that doesn't make it to the media, I believe the media likes to portray, you know, all the horrible things that are happening on campus, but the Jewish community at Cornell has really come together, in one of the most beautiful ways I have ever seen during my time at Cornell. We've had the Shabbat dinners with filling capacity of the kosher dining hall. We've had, you know, Jews from Monsey coming and bringing us food for a barbecue for 200 people. We had never met them before in our entire lives. And they just decided to come up and do this wonderful, wonderful, good deed for us. And there's nothing more I could have asked to be proud of as a Jew. And I hope that Jews on campus know that, although it's scary, we will get through this time. And we should be proud and continue to be Jewish. Manya Brachear Pashman:   That's really comforting to hear. And I'm sure your parents find that really comforting to hear, especially as they watch the news and wonder how their children are doing. What are you hearing from them? How are they doing? Molly Goldstein:   Yeah, parents are definitely more scared than I have ever seen them before. I mean, I had people's parents coming up to get their kids and take them home. People's parents like requesting that we have to sue the University and we have to get these kids off campus and we have to take really harsh actions. And it's because they're scared, they don't know what to do. They're far away from their kids. And, you know, it's up to us to make sure that their parents know that we'll be safe and, and for them to know that everything that needs to be done is getting done for Jewish students. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Elliot, anything to add to that? Elliot Sadoff:   Yeah, I mean, I can just echo what Molly was saying about kind of uniting around this and being proud of, like being Jewish and rallying around the community and that my parents are scared, a lot of parents are scared. But there's also been a lot of people working together to change that environment, to change the narrative to to help students be proud of who they are. I don't know if you've seen recently there's a large Facebook group, Mothers Against College Antisemitism, which I think now is hundreds of 1000s of people. I could be mistaken there. But it shows that there are people who care about us, there are people who care about protecting their identity and supporting students and I think that's really meaningful. That's very helpful to see on campus. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Molly, can you walk our listeners through what has happened at Cornell? I mean, how did you first hear about the threats that I mentioned in the introduction? And what precautions did you and other students take? Molly Goldstein:   Yeah, absolutely. So I was sitting in my room actually in the Center for Jewish Living, which was the place that was threatened by a bomb threat, as well as it's right next door to the kosher dining hall, which the student threatened to shoot up. And I was sitting, you know, doing homework in my room, and all of a sudden, there's a Cornellians for Israel group chat that now has 1000s of people in it. It's progressed over the month since the war has started. And we just get a link from one of the students that found it, and said, like, look, what we have posted online, and all of a sudden, all the threats started coming in. My immediate reaction was genuine fear. I'm sitting in the building, I did not know what was going to happen to me or my fellow community members. And pretty quickly, we got Cornell Police Department on the case, we got the FBI, Homeland Security, Ithaca police and New York State Police, everybody showed up and was at the dining hall and kosher spaces. And that night, the President of the University and vice president of the university came to our house, to see how we were doing and make sure that we know they're doing everything they can to ensure our safety.  And, you know, they would not have come if they really thought their lives were in danger. But it was scary. I had students, you know, weren't sleeping in the house that night. They found other places to go, whether that was other friends who had apartments or relatives, family, friends in Ithaca. And as the day went on, we had New York Governor Kathy Hochol came the next morning, the next morning, within just 12 hours was at our doorstep, talking to us, ensuring that New York State was going to do everything they can to condemn antisemitism to ensure our safety for not just Jewish students at Cornell, but Jewish students at all New York State campuses, which includes Columbia, and you know, CUNY schools, which are having a really difficult time with anti-Zionism and antisemitism. And as time went on, we were getting, you know, news media coverage. And we never went on lockdown. But we were doing everything we could to keep people safe. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Did you feel that the university was doing enough to respond? It sounds like people from across the state were doing enough, or doing a lot. But was the university doing enough in your opinion? Molly Goldstein:   In my opinion, yes. I think the fact that the President and the Vice President came immediately to make sure we're doing okay, they released a statement that night, and the next day they were updating their social media with everything that they were doing. And they just released actually that they are changing their antisemitism in their DEI training, so that it's more prevalent and that education can be better on that front.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   Eliott, can you walk our listeners through the atmosphere at Columbia, I know a student was attacked, but there have also been smaller acts of aggression. I won't say microaggressions because there's nothing micro about a swastika on a wall. But can you walk us through the general atmosphere there? Elliot Sadoff:   Yeah, so I think throughout the past month, the atmosphere on campus at Columbia has generally felt unsafe for Jewish students. Obviously, there were the incidents where the physical safety of students was was under threat where the Israeli student was attacked for putting up posters of those that were kidnapped, but also reports of people yelling on campus, f the Jews or people being spit on and I think either one or two now swastikas being drawn on campus. But it just kind of fits into the broader rhetoric on campus. There seems to be the downplaying of anti semitism and anti Zionism and in class on campus, Jewish students aren't feeling safe. They aren't feeling welcomed by the professors, by their peers, by people in New York City. And the rhetoric for me from what I've seen and what my friends have seen from what I'm hearing from the pro Israel groups is that it seems the real effect and a real threat, antisemitism is being downplayed. There's an anonymous app that, obviously, it's an online platform. I think a lot of schools are dealing with this, where students sign up, can post whatever they want without consequences.  And for the past few weeks, it's been riddled with antisemitism. There seems to be no consequences for anyone. People are saying again, like F the Jews, Israel should be demolished. Lives of Israelis don't matter. And there's an anti semitic incident someone posted and all the comments are saying, This is not real. It's over blasted. This isn't a real threat to Jewish students. And that I think that doesn't that doesn't help anyone. It doesn't help the Palestinian cause to do this. It doesn't help the Israeli cause to do this. It's just it's making everyone feel unsafe. Manya Brachear Pashman:   What is this app that you mentioned, where there is no accountability?  Elliot Sadoff:   So the apps called Sidechat, but I think other campuses have different ones-Sidechat, YikYak, some other ones where you have to log in with your student university email to verify that your student at Columbia, or then you get access to a Columbia on the message board where there's posting, you can upvote or downvote, you can comment, post images. And this entire month, the app just every day, you can't scroll through it. 75% of the posts are completely antisemitic, saying Jews don't have a right to live, Jewscan't do this, that, downplaying antisemitism, minimizing it saying it's not happening, saying Jewish lives don't matter. And these things have been brought up, from my understanding, this has been brought up to the university. And obviously, it's hard for them to control. We want everyone to be able to have free speech and speak their mind. But it seems that there's a line that's been crossed here, and Jewish students feel unsafe because of this, and it continues to this day, even this morning. Manya Brachear Pashman:   And who runs this app? It's not a university run app. It's a company, right? Elliot Sadoff:   It's a company, but they advertise at the club fair, they're on campus, they have tables, you need your university email to log in. So it seems there should be some way to provide accountability. And obviously, it's not an official university platform. But it's an atmosphere that's not safe for Jewish students. That's part of what's going on on campus. Manya Brachear Pashman:   You said that there is a feeling of danger in the classroom that you have. Have you personally encountered hostility in the classroom? Elliot Sadoff:   In a lot of my classes, it's that I don't want to spark hostility. And I don't want to say what my thoughts are, I don't want to say that I might feel unsafe as a Jewish student, I don't want to tell people that I went to school in Tel Aviv. And that's the program that I'm part of.  I mean, if I see some of my professors that I've had in the past signing a petition that says Hamas’ actions are legitimate military action, how am I supposed to feel safe on campus? My professors are signing this, ones that I've had, they know who I am, I've had conversations with them. And this is what they're signing. And that just adds into the fact that in some of my other classes, people are kind of using free speech as a guise to promote antisemitism and that one professor at Columbia described awe and joy at Hamas’ attack on Israel. And this is a pretty well known case that this professor has been espousing these ideas. And in my class, people are saying, this is free speech. You can't criticize him, you can't. You can't deny that you can't take action against him when there's a difference. It's clearly adding to a rhetorical atmosphere that's making Jewish students feel unsafe. Manya Brachear Pashman:   And what about you, Molly? Has there been any hostility in classrooms at Cornell that you've, you've come across? Molly Goldstein:   There are many students who have been coming out and reporting professors and other students in their classes, who are spewing anti-Israel, anti-Zionist views. And it's really toeing the line between anti-Zionism and real antisemitism. And it's scary. I mean, I know a student who has family who's in the IDF right now fighting in Gaza, and one of their cousin's just was killed and they tried to get accommodations from the professor and they weren't accommodating. There's another class on you know, colonialism and a writing seminar for first year students. So this is exactly what they're going to introduce to the university. And when they were first asked about their opinions on the Israeli Palestinian conflict, they said, you know, we feel bad for everybody, like innocent lives, nobody should be killed. This is not right. And the professor's reaction was to then say all the horrible things that Israel is doing, and tried to convince the class that they should be on the side of the Palestinians. And then they ask the question again, and almost nobody wants to talk because they were scared of disagreeing with the professor, or they were confused. And it's real propaganda that's being pushed through the university and people aren't able, people aren't able to make the distinctions and be able to freely express their opinions, their problems or opinions or their pro Jewish opinions for that matter. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Has there been any kind of constructive dialogue either facilitated by faculty by students? Has there been any evidence that people are willing to understand other points of view or embrace the complexities of the conflict. Molly Goldstein:   So the only experience I've had with true constructive dialogue was at the beginning, I'm like October 10, or 11th, or something like that. There was a student assembly meeting where SJP on campus, I proposed a resolution to condemn Cornell University for not speaking out for the Palestinian people. Their statement had only mentioned: Hamas is a terrorist organization and didn't say anything about the innocent Palestinian lives that are being lost. And in addition to that resolution, it was you should divest from Israel, you should deem it an occupied apartheid state. And a whole bunch of SJP people and a whole bunch of pro Israel, people came to the student assembly meeting.  And after everyone showed their views, the person who had originally proposed the resolution, wanted to amend it. And they said, You know what, I can understand why this was very harmful. Let's try to change and have constructive dialogue. And at the end, we all came together. And we were all talking about our views and our notions. And that was probably the last time that there was constructive dialogue on campus. Unfortunately, that was like three weeks ago. Since then, you know, the university has had panels and other talks led by professors, but the academics are not in favor of Israel. They do not like to show both sides of the narrative. And it's always from an anti-Israel voice. And it's scary and hard to see. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Elliot, how about constructive dialogue on Columbia's campus–any at all? Elliot Sadoff:   I know that the School of International and Public Affairs has held a few meetings, but it hasn't been student dialogue at all. It's just been webinars from what I understand. And since a month ago, October 7, I haven't seen anything with students that's been constructive, that's been meaningful. And I think that's really the issue that I see with that, and I think a lot of other Jewish students do with that is that it doesn't help us it doesn't help anyone that there's no constructive dialogue. If someone wants to sit down with me and discuss the Israeli Palestinian conflict, I'm happy to do so. I know that there's a lot to discuss. But I haven't seen any of that. All I've seen as Israel's bad. Israel's done this. No actual discussion, and how does that help anyone? I can't sit here and, and feel safe and feel safe to discuss this. If people won't condemn Hamas. People will say: the resistance lives, I support them, they're not a terrorist organization, they didn't behead babies. Then there's no room for discussion. Manya Brachear Pashman:   You know, I keep using the word constructive. But I guess really, another word is compassionate. I mean, has there been compassionate dialogue? And I think one, they are one in the same in this situation. Would you characterize any of the conversations you've had with individual students as leaning toward compassionate, even if not really all that constructive? Elliot Sadoff:   Personally, I've not. And I think that's what's so hurtful is that I would love to have a compassionate conversation. Recognize that right now, both Israelis and Palestinians are suffering. It's the sad truth. It's the reality. But if you can't acknowledge that, if you can't recognize that Israelis are suffering, too. There's no room for compassion. Manya Brachear Pashman:   So AJC has developed an action plan for confronting campus antisemitism. It's a toolkit for students. It closely follows the US national strategy to counter antisemitism that was unveiled by the White House in May. The final step in that toolkit is recruiting and forming a task force to address antisemitism on campuses. Do you see that happening at Cornell or Columbia? Elliot Sadoff:   Fortunately, Columbia, about a week and a half ago, announced that they're launching an Antisemitism Taskforce, which is welcomed, I'm very happy that you're doing it. It's something that is necessary to protect Jewish students and to protect everyone on campus. Personally, though, it is a little upsetting that it took this to happen for there to be an Antisemitism Task Force as antisemitism is not a new problem. This anti-Israel, anti-Jewish sentiment is not a new problem on campus or in the world. And the fact that it's being launched, investigated and addressed as a result of a lot of bad stuff happening as opposed to proactively protecting students on campus is a little upsetting. Obviously, it's a welcome step, it's a step in the right direction. But I don't know if I feel any safer now than I did last week before it was announced. Manya Brachear Pashman:   College is hard enough. And so I'm really impressed that both of you joined us, that both of you are confronting this problem and this challenge and doing so with such bravery and such poise. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with us and we're gonna be rooting for you and fighting for you every step of the way. Molly Goldstein:   Thank you so much.  Elliot Sadoff:   Thank you for having us.

In honor of Veterans Day, explore the unique experiences of Jewish U.S. military veterans with Dave Warnock, U.S. Army Veteran, and Andrea Goldstein, U.S. Navy Veteran and Reservist. Our guests share what inspired them to join the military, how their Jewish heritage played a significant role in shaping their service, and what advice they have for the Israel Defense Forces soldiers fighting now against Hamas in the Gaza Strip. Warnock and Goldstein are members of AJC’s ACCESS Jewish Military Veterans Affinity Group, a space to convene young Jewish professionals who have served in the American military. *The views and opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect the views or position of AJC.  Episode Lineup:  (0:40) Dave Warnock, Andrea Goldstein Show Notes: Listen – People of the Pod on the Israel-Hamas War: What Would You Do If Your Son Was Kidnapped by Hamas? Renana Gomeh’s Sons Were Taken Hostage by Hamas: What She Needs You to Do to Bring Them Home Now What Biden’s Wartime Visit to Israel Signals to Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah Mai Gutman Was Supposed to Be at the Music Festival: IDF Lone Soldier Recounts Harrowing Week Responding to Hamas Terror: IsraAID CEO on How You Can Help Israelis Right Now Learn: What is Known About Israeli Hostages Taken by Hamas 7 Ways Hamas Exploits Palestinian Civilians in Gaza How much do you know about Hamas? Try to ace our quiz and expose the truth about the terror group today. Donate: AJC.org/SupportIsrael Follow People of the Pod on your favorite podcast app, and learn more at AJC.org/PeopleofthePod You can reach us at: peopleofthepod@ajc.org If you’ve appreciated this episode, please be sure to tell your friends, and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Transcript of Interview with Dave Warnock and Andrea Goldstein: Manya Brachear Pashman: This episode pays tribute to our nation's veterans. Guest hosting is my colleague Dr. Dana Levinson Steiner, Director of ACCESS Global at AJC, where she oversees an international program to engage young professionals. In that group are a number of Jewish military veterans who have served in the American Armed Forces. Dana, the mic is yours.  Dana Levinson Steiner: Thanks, Manya. I'm so happy that we're here today. It was just over two years ago that we formed the ACCESS Jewish Military Veterans Affinity Group, which is a space for us to convene young Jewish professionals who had served in the American military. And here we are now recording our first People of the Pod podcast episode in honor of and commemorating Veterans Day.  With us today are: Dave Warnock, U.S. Army Veteran, joining us from his home in Seattle, Washington, and Andrea Goldstein, U.S. Navy Veteran and Reservist, who is based in Washington, D.C. Dave, Andrea, thanks for joining us today. Dave Warnock:   Happy to be here, Dana. Andrea Goldstein:   Yeah, I’m glad to be here.  Dana Levinson Steiner: To kick off the conversation, please tell us a little bit about your journey as an American Jewish military veteran. What inspired you to join the United States Armed Forces? Dave, let’s start with you. Dave Warnock:   For me, there are two kind of main things when I look back on what propelled me to join the US Army. The first one was my great grandfather, Saul Fink. The family legend is like he emigrated over from the shtetl. His family settled in Harlem. And when he heard about what was going on in Texas at the time, and 1916 and 1914 with the Pancho Villa incursions, he felt so propelled by patriotism and love of America that he had to run away from home and enlist at 16 years old. Which he did. Joined the Horse Calvary, a proper Jewish cowboy chasing after Pancho Villa in New Mexico, in a forgotten war. And he made sort of a career out of the army. So that's the legend that he was propelled by patriotism, maybe hated the tenement, maybe just wanted to get out of Harlem, get some fresh air, see the American West, I don't know.  But his service propelled him forward in American society, through the US Army in a way that I think would have been unavailable to a lot of Jews at the time. It's not to say that it was an easy journey. He was certainly discriminated against; he shortened his name from Finkelstein to Fink for reasons that are not kind of lost to history. One joke is that it couldn't fit on the nametag. But through this service, he was elevated in society, he became an officer in World War I. He served through World War II and in the army of occupation in Germany. And his stature, sort of the patriarch of my family, loomed large. My middle name is Solomon, I'm named after him. So that kind of tradition was part of it. Another part was, I enlisted in 2004. So three years after 91/1 when I was a freshman in high school, and that terrorist attack really did propelled, cemented my decision to serve you know, if that didn't happen, I don't know what I would have done differently. But those are the two main reasons that propelled me to join. And I joined the Army and I volunteered for the infantry because I wanted to be a soldier.  Dana Levinson Steiner: In a lot of ways, it is our family that inspires us to make these kinds of decisions and we learn so much from our family history and our family lineage. Andrea, I'd love to hear a little bit more about your journey too and I'm curious if family played a role in your decision to join the Navy. Andrea Goldstein:   My family decision to do the military was much more related to growing up in the United States, growing up in New York at a time actually, probably when we didn't have the NYPD outside of synagogues. I didn't really think about being Jewish, at least in New York in the 90s. But my family came here in mostly two waves, most in the early 20th century, and then another wave right before the Holocaust, and found everything they were looking for. And depending on which wave, either second generation or third generation where a sense of precarity and being American was gone. We just were American Jews. And I am currently sitting in a home that has embroidery on the wall that was sent to my great-grandmother, by family members who ended up–who perished in the shoah. This country really gave us everything and I wanted to give back to that.  The value of tikkun olam is very central to everything that I do. And so serving my country and wearing the cloth of the nation to me felt like really the only way to do that.  9/11 was not a motivating factor for me, despite growing up in New York City and being in New York City on 9/11. My desire to serve in uniform predated that, in fact, 9/11 led me to really not so much reconsider, but really give even more thought to my military service, because I knew I would be serving in conflict zones, which, with the peacetime military of the 90s, that wasn't clear. But I ended up joining through an officer program. I didn't initially have any family support, because it was such a shocking choice. I had great-grandparents who'd served during World War Two great-uncles, but not from a military family at all. And what became very understood by my family, because it was, what was motivating me was, this desire to serve my country and wear the cloth of the nation, no matter what. Dana Levinson Steiner: I want to pivot a little bit, I want to get back to questions of Jewish identity in a moment. But when we're thinking about American Jews serving in the US armed forces, while there isn't a ton of data, the most recent-ish data suggests that just about 1% of the US armed forces, or the US military, is made up of American Jews. It's tiny, only 1%. And that 1% is of an already really small number of American Jews who already live in this country.  So, you know, thinking about this statistic and also acknowledging American history in serving in the military. What do we make of this small number? And what would you like to tell young American Jews who may be considering joining the military but may have doubts or concerns? Andrea Goldstein:   So there are a couple of things I would say to that. I would comment on that data–first of all, that's only commenting that that only includes self reported numbers because we don't collect demographic data on, it’s seen as completely religious affiliation. The military does not collect demographics on Jews as being an ethnic group. So it's actually quite difficult to self-report your religion. So there's going to be an undercount, there are people who are Jewish, who may even practice privately, who are not reporting. And it also doesn't capture Jewish families.  So it doesn't capture the number of people who may be not Jewish themselves, but their partner and spouse is Jewish, and they're raising Jewish children, and they're observing Jewish holidays with their families. So there's a lot that we really don't know. What I would also say is, if you were to overlay where the military struggles to recruit from, with the parts of the country where most Jews live in the United States, you would see probably some very interesting geographic trends.  The military has become a family business. There has also been, there have been some comforts that the military has had in where they recruit from. And that typically is not New York, Los Angeles, Miami, Chicago, Washington, DC. So in addition to being one of the very few Jews that I know, in the military, I think I know probably even fewer people from New York City, especially officers. Dana Levinson Steiner: Dave, I'm curious, your thoughts on some of these numbers? And also maybe what you would tell–you and I have talked about this before about wanting to really engage in conversation with young American Jews about this experience and what it can mean for them, you know, acknowledging this number a while not perfect, I would imagine it's not so massive. So tell us a little bit about what you think and also maybe what you would tell a young American Jew who might be considering enlisting. Dave Warnock:   Sure. First off, my mom was also very surprised when I joined, perplexed, flummoxed, aggrieved, perhaps she would have much rather me not join the army. But I just have to get that out there because she's certainly going to listen to this. Yeah, so, you know, I don't know where that number comes from, you know, the infantry's a different representation, I would say Jews were less than 1% of the infantry. But when I was at basic training, like for one station unit training, as they called it back then, after your red phase, like your hell phase, or whatever you want to call it, you are allowed to go to religious services on Sunday.  So I went to Jewish services on Sunday, because, you know, it is the army. And I want to do it, like in my basic training company, there were no other Jews. So the company’s like 200 guys, and then when you go to religious services, they're all of a sudden, like, 200 guys, they're like, Oh, my God, why so many Jews all of a sudden in every company in Fort Benning, except for mine? And then I realized is because they serve Kiddush lunch and you could get snacky cakes after services. And it turns out there were like three actual Jews at the services. Andrea Goldstein:   I had a completely different experience in officer candidate school where we were allowed to leave on Friday nights. Dana Levinson Steiner: Oh, interesting. Dave, what was your experience?  Dave Warnock:   So again,, this is like 2005, things might have changed. But when you joined a Combat Arms significant you just went to one station unit training and it was a fairly intense experience. Think about Full Metal Jacket, whatever, people screaming at you, doing lots of push ups. And all your time is blocked out and accounted for. So you've trained on Saturdays and religious service time was Sunday morning. That's the time you got, so if you want to go to services, you  had to do that. Something to consider if you join certain aspects of the military is, religious accommodations will be difficult. You know, I served with guys who were vegetarian. And there's one vegetarian MRE. You ate that a lot, like our rations for the field. So you eat that vegetarian ration a lot. Get real used to it.  Certainly that is a consideration and it would be difficult to be religiously observant. In the infantry. I actually there was one guy in my company on the latter half of my service who was a religious Jew. And he basically got a lot of exceptions by his rabbi to serve. Because it was hard. The army would accommodate him to an extent, like, for example, we had to shave every day. And so he was allowed to use an electric razor. But it's something to consider if you are religious, that serving in the US military will be challenging.  But you know, I encourage people to consider it. I don't regret my service, it's difficult to imagine my adult life without it. I'd say, I'm proud of it, too. But it carries costs. You know, when I was 19, on my first tour in Iraq, I was wounded, it took me six months to recover and get back to the line. The, almost five years I was in, I rarely saw my family because I was stationed in Germany and deployed to Iraq twice. So I was overseas, essentially, for the entire time of my service. And that's something to consider, but this is all my perspective.  But the experiences you get, that will propel you forward in life in a way that I don't think you get through other things, certainly, when you're 18, or when I was. That being said, you know, a lot of soldiers in my unit did die in combat. A lot of guys, when they got out, they did struggle with PTSD and suicide. So it's not all sunshine and roses. But for me, it was the right decision. Andrea Goldstein: Military service is really incredible. My field does have more Jewish folks, especially in the reserves where I'm still serving. What's been very interesting is as an intelligence officer, the active duty component doesn't have a lot of Jewish people, but the reserve component, my last unit, we had enough people to have a minyan in a unit of 50 people. And I have found, similarly to just living in society. I mean, your exercises are not–you’re going to have exercises that take place during Rosh Hashanah, you're going to be deployed around Christian holidays so that people can be home for Christmas. Maybe you'll be lucky if that's around Hanukkah.  But I've also found people to who I've worked with to be incredibly accommodating up until, up  to the extent that they can. So maybe I was going to be away for Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur. But people would change their shifts with me on watch so that I could run the service because I was the lay leader, or so that I could break my fast at the end of Yom Kippur war.  And I experienced people being really curious and asking a lot of really good, in good faith questions. And I've had incredible experiences that range from serving with a lot of incredible, not just our military, but partner militaries. The most rewarding was my time with NATO where I got to teach in Norway and Greece and in  Sweden and get to have these incredible experiences with people as the people who– actually the Germans all notice my last name, which was really interesting. And that's a whole other story. But you also see things you can't experience anywhere else. And it's not just the–I saw a meteor shower in the middle of the ocean, on my 26th birthday from the middle of a ship. Like there are certain experiences that you don't think about when you're going into the profession of arms. But you will get to experience these incredibly vibrant experiences just because you've, you've made this choice to go where no one else does. And so it's incredibly rewarding.  I've also found that as a millennial, I mean, there are some very realistic things about the economic environment that we graduated into. And because of my military service, I have no debt, and I own a home. I have a master's degree that the GI bill paid for. So there's some other things. Dana Levinson Steiner: You talked about sort of the things that you learned and the experience that you got as a young person. Dave tell us maybe a little about some of the more rewarding experiences or things were really profoundly important to you in your service. Dave Warnock:   I got out when I was 23. So 13 years ago now and memories once so vivid that I thought I would never forget him kind of faded away a little bit. One thing that I'll never forget, that was quite challenging, because after I was wounded, I was kind of serving in the rear just like in a limited duty capacity, like back in my garrison. And it was a tough tour, you know, lots of us got wounded, we had lots of members of our battalion killed. And I was asked by chain of command, as much as one can be asked in the military to escort a soldier's body back to his parents and to his burial in Arlington Cemetery. And I did that, and that was, I can't even describe just what that moment felt like to do that to be present there. It's kind of like a unit liaison. I didn't know the soldier, we were in different companies. But that was something I'll never forget. Actually escorting a soldier back to his parents.  Another memory I'll never forget is like, because I have a photo of it. And it's on the wall in our living room is, the photo of me and my fire team. I was a sergeant on my second tour. And so I led like a small unit of four guys. And I have a picture when we were leaving Iraq for the last time. And just that sense of accomplishment of, everyone came home safe from my team on that tour. And that's why it's hung up on my wall. It's you know, we're smiling. We're happy. We're leaving. Yeah, so those are two things that tend to stand out in my service.  Dana Levinson Steiner: So Andrea, you started off by saying that the value of tikkun olam, repairing the world is one of the things that really guides you. And what I want to ask both you and Dave is how has your identity as a Jew, also shaped your experience as a veteran, we talked a little bit about, you know, in the beginning about your experiences as Jews or maybe your family, being involved in the military not being involved, being surprised. But tell us a little bit about how your identity as a Jew has shaped your experience as a military veteran and as someone who served in our armed forces. Andrea Goldstein:   So I left active duty in 2016 and stayed in the reserves but left full time service because I felt like I had reached a ceiling on what I could really do for others and that be my full time job. I wanted to keep serving, I wanted to keep serving my country. But a lot of that actually had to do with the way that I saw a lot of my teammates being mistreated by systemic issues, whether they be cultural or policy. And I wanted to spend a lot more of my time actively putting putting more good into the world versus preventing bad things from happening. Because that's what you do in the military, especially if you’re in intel, you try to stop the bad you don't do anything that actively promotes the good. And so I've spent the last seven years in my civilian career, either in nonprofit or public service, doing just that.  And about half of that time has been active either actively helping veterans, particularly women veterans, and people who have experienced sexual violence or other kinds of institutionalized harm, and currently serving members of the military. And I also firmly believe that our institutions need to live up to the ideals that we profess. And  I want our nation to represent the ideals that my family came here believing it had.  And so that's what I've been doing with my time. I spent two and a half years on the House Veterans Affairs Committee and helped write over 100 laws that particularly supported women veterans, members of the LGBTQ community, sexual trauma survivors, people living with PTSD, to help them get improved access to healthcare and benefits. And I'm also very proud that I've also had the opportunity to work with the IDF and provided some insight into the way that we've made some policy changes here in the US. Dana Levinson Steiner: Dave, tell us a little bit about your Jewish identity and how it plays into this experience. Dave Warnock:   Well, my unit was very diverse in many ways, not gender, because the unit was closed to, or  at the time that the MLS was close to females, so the unit was,  the job was all male. And, you know, part of the pipeline and being new and being a private is your identity is kind of like stripped away and melted down, you're built up as part of this team, your individualism is kind of knocked away. So when that process happens, you know, whatever is the more like forefront of your identity kind of consumes it. In a sense that, like, if you have a very pronounced southern accent, everyone's going to call you a country guy, or whatever. And if you're from New York, there's a guy from Queens, so like, everything about him became like, you're the New York guy.  And for me, it was like I was the Jew. Because that was the most forefront and center thing of my identity. Also, when you shave my head, I have a really big head. So it was all like, all my nicknames were either about having a big head or being a Jew. And then eventually, when I started to grow my hair back and settled more on the latter.  So it was always very central to my service, because that was me, I was like the company's guy who was Jewish. And that was not  meant in a derogatory term was more of like a statement of fact. And I think the only thing I really had to overcome was like, in 2005, when you're serving with people, like when I said it was diverse, you could be serving with people from all over the country, the US territories and guys from parts of the South I’ve never heard of, guys from the center of the country place have never been soldiers from Puerto Rico and Guam, like all over the world are serving in the US Army and then we have immigrant soldiers from, you know, Colombia, Nicaragua, Vietnam, like it was a very wide swath of representation and not very many of them had even met a Jew before.  So in a way I was like the first Jew a lot of them had ever met. And I think, you know, rewind back 2005. If you know anything about Jews you probably know like Woody Allen and  Jerry Seinfeld, which are exactly like pictures of guys you want in a foxhole with you. So I had to sort of maybe work a little harder to prove myself in the basic soldiering tasks, but like that didn't take very long. A lot of guys asked me questions about Judaism, because they genuinely didn't know. And I think one of the benefits of my service is, these guys take back their experiences with me, which I hope are positive, and then like, go back to wherever they're from. And they're like, if Judaism or Jews comes up, they're like, Hey, I served with a Jewish guy, he was pretty cool.  But I think that was very important to me, and why it's so important for Jews to continue military service, because you just meet people from all over the country that you never would have met before. And it broadened my experiences too, serving with those guys.  Dana Levinson Steiner: I think, hearing the story about how in many cases you might have been the first few that these folks have met is really important. I think in a lot of ways it helps to demystify, or in most important cases, maybe even act against antisemitic ideas or stereotypes. So I think that that's really important. And Dave, you and I have talked over the years, about how sort of the term of calling you a Jew was like a term of endearment. It wasn't in terms of a term of antisemitism. And in spending a lot of my time with this ACCESS Military Veterans Group, I've gotten to learn some of the interesting elements of how you communicate and what that can look like.  So I have just one more question for us. And I think it's really important to acknowledge this moment that we're in. On October 7, Israel experienced one of the most horrific tragedies in its 75 year history. It was and continues to be a horrific day for Israelis and the Jewish community around the world. As of today's recording, over 300 soldiers have been killed and tens of thousands have been called up for active and reserve duty.  So a question I have for both of you is, what is a message that you have, or that you can share, Jewish veteran to Jewish veteran. And I should even say just veteran to veteran because one of the amazing things about Israel is that there are many who serve in the IDF and who've been called up for reserve duty or who are in active duty who are not Jewish. They're a part of the Druze community. They're Arab Israelis. I think that's really what makes Israel such a remarkable country.  So tell us a little bit about perhaps your reactions to that day. And also a message that you have for your fellow soldiers in Israel. Andrea Goldstein:   I'm struggling to react because – the horror, rage, I'm just going to start crying on this podcast and not be able to actually give words. I was actually in touch on WhatsApp with several women who I've had the opportunity to work with who are veterans and reservists in the IDF. And there's definitely this kind of secret community of women around the world who have served in combat roles. Even if they weren't in combat, occupational specialties in their countries, where we know what we did, and our service has often gone unacknowledged and erased. And that service is also particularly called upon during the most desperate times, which we are in now. And the message that I have is we see you, we’re with you and we want to run towards chaos with you.  Dana Levinson Steiner: Thank you so much, Andrea. Dave? Dave Warnock:   I mean, I can't say anything that hasn't already been said. You know, shock, anger. My wife and I are expecting our first child soon. And I didn't think we'd be having a daughter, be worried about like, I just thought, ignorantly, that these sorts of things were perhaps in the past. All I can say to those who are going to go serve is, keep your head on a swivel. Watch out for your battle buddy. All the things we used to say to each other then are still true now. Dana Levinson Steiner: Thank you. I think just knowing that you are in community with them, and that they have love and support is so powerful. And as I think both of you know, our ACCESS chapters are all over the world, including in Israel, where a huge number of our ACCESS leaders have been called up for active and reserve duty. So we're thinking of them in this moment.  And we're thinking of all soldiers as we approach Veterans Day, and we're so grateful for the two of you sharing your story with us and sharing your time with us and giving a voice to the more than 1% we will hope of American Jewish veterans and perhaps even encourage some folks who may have been thinking that this is something that's been on their mind, maybe perhaps it might be the moment for them to lean into that into that journey as a Jewish member of our armed forces. So thank you both for joining us. Wishing you a restful and restorative weekend. And Shabbat Shalom. Dave Warnock:   Shabbat shalom, thank you.  Andrea Goldstein:   Thank you so much, shabbat shalom. Manya Brachear Pashman: What would you do if your son was kidnapped by Hamas? In this heartfelt conversation with Jon Polin and Rachel Goldberg, the parents of 23-year-old Hersh Goldberg Polin, they shared what they know about their son’s abduction from the Supernova music festival on October 7th and the challenges they face in trying to secure his rescue.  Hamas terrorists are holding hostage more than 240 people from over 30 countries, which the couple describes as a global humanitarian crisis that world leaders are not treating as such. They shared ways that we all can keep the hostages’ stories alive and bring them home. Go to AJC.org/BringThemHome to do your part.

In this heartfelt conversation with Jon Polin and Rachel Goldberg, the parents of 23-year-old Hersh, who is among the over 240 hostages held by Hamas terrorists, they detail what they know about their son’s abduction from the Supernova music festival on October 7th and the challenges they face in trying to secure his rescue. They also describe their dismay that world leaders are not doing enough to bring the hostages home and share ways to keep their son and all the hostages’ stories alive.  Take action to bring all hostages home now. *The views and opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect the views or position of AJC.  Episode Lineup:  (0:40) Jon Polin, Rachel Goldberg Show Notes: Listen – People of the Pod on the Israel-Hamas War: Renana Gomeh’s Sons Were Taken Hostage by Hamas: What She Needs You to Do to Bring Them Home Now What Biden’s Wartime Visit to Israel Signals to Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah Mai Gutman Was Supposed to Be at the Music Festival: IDF Lone Soldier Recounts Harrowing Week Responding to Hamas Terror: IsraAID CEO on How You Can Help Israelis Right Now Learn: What is Known About Israeli Hostages Taken by Hamas 7 Ways Hamas Exploits Palestinian Civilians in Gaza How much do you know about Hamas? Try to ace our quiz and expose the truth about the terror group today. Donate: AJC.org/SupportIsrael Follow People of the Pod on your favorite podcast app, and learn more at AJC.org/PeopleofthePod You can reach us at: peopleofthepod@ajc.org If you’ve appreciated this episode, please be sure to tell your friends, and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Transcript of Interview with Jon Polin and Rachel Goldberg: Jon Polin: This is a global humanitarian issue. And every day, I wonder why is the world not speaking in that way? Why is the world shoving this into a simple black and white box of Israeli-Gaza, Israeli-Palestinian? Why are 33 foreign ministers around the world not holding hands and screaming about the magnitude of this humanitarian crisis? Manya Brachear Pashman: On October 7, Hamas terrorists broke into homes and raided a music festival, murdering more than 1400 civilians and soldiers and kidnapping at least 245 from more than 30 different countries. Almost four weeks later, only five hostages have returned home. Jon Polin and Rachel Goldberg say it doesn’t matter where this happened. It is an international atrocity carried out against innocent lives and families around the world, including their own. But no one is talking about the hostage situation in Gaza in those terms. Why not?  Jon and Rachel are with us now to talk about their quest to bring home their 23-year-old son Hersh and the other hostages. Jon, Rachel: Welcome. Thank you for joining us.  Jon Polin:   Thank you.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   Can you tell our listeners what you know about your son's abduction and the circumstances? It is a widely known story I think by now but just for those few that have not heard. Rachel Goldberg: So, I'll give you a sort of quick version because as you said, I think a lot of people already are familiar with Hersh's story. But he and his best friend who were at the music festival when the massacre started, they escaped in a car with two other friends and started to try to head north to get out of harm's way.  But the road was blocked by Hamas gunmen who were just shooting at point blank range anyone who even got near them. So Hersh and his friends, and many other of the young people who were also in cars trying to escape, just stopped the cars, flung the doors open, and went running to these outside, roadside bomb shelters.  Hersh and his friend Amer ended up with 29, a total of what we believe to be 29 of them smushed into this cinder block reinforced windowless small bomb shelter, which Hamas started to descend upon and threw in initially, hand grenades, which Hersh’s friend Amer was standing by the doorway and manage to actually retrieve, pickup before detonating and throw back out at least seven of them. Three did detonate inside causing a lot of carnage.  And then Hamas brought in an RPG which they fired directly into this small room of young people. And then they sprayed the room with machine gun bullets.  After a couple of minutes of the dust settling, most of those young people were dead. Many of them were severely wounded, some were trapped under the dead bodies and the dying bodies and it is from those witnesses that we heard what happened to Hersh.  Which is, he was slumped with three other boys against one of the walls and they were all somewhat injured but they still appeared alive. And Hamas walked in and said, everybody you know you four stand up and come outside. And when they stood up, the eyewitnesses told us that Hersh's left arm from around the elbow down had been blown off. He had somehow managed to fashion some sort of bandage or tourniquet, and he walked out.  They all walked out calmly. I'm sure they were in deep shock and dazed and traumatized by what they had just seen take place in front of them. And they were boarded onto a Hamas pickup truck which headed toward Gaza. And Hersh's last cell phone signal was found inside of Gaza at 10:25am, Saturday morning October 7.  We subsequently did get a video from CNN’s Anderson Cooper who had come across it in research he had been doing on a documentary about the music festival. And he shared that with us.  So we've actually seen Hersh walking out of the bomb shelter using his less dominant hand. He is left-handed and now doesn't have a left hand. He uses his right hand to board the pickup truck and he turns around to sit down and it's in that moment when he turns that you can see the stump where his left arm used to be. And he sat down and that's the last that we have seen him, heard anything about him in the last 26 days. Manya Brachear Pashman:   I did watch that interview with Anderson Cooper, where they showed that footage and I'm curious what your takeaways were from that video, what were your observations, and also, did it give you hope to see him? Jon Polin:   So on the one hand, as you can imagine it is a video that nobody would ever want to see of their loved one, their child. So basic answer is it's horrendously terrible to see it.  On the other hand, I have been in a position where we need to just look for optimism and hope anywhere we can find it in the last 26 days. And so when I saw that video, my lens on it was, and especially since I know what had preceded it for the 90 minutes before that: the carnage, seeing his best friend killed, etc.  I looked at the video and I saw Hersh looking composed, walking on his own two feet, using his one remaining hand, which happens to be his weak hand, to pull himself onto this truck. And clearly in shock, as one would expect. But I took some optimism from seeing what kind of shape he appeared to be in. Manya Brachear Pashman:   You said 26 days, I cannot believe it's been 26 days that they've held these hostages with no word. And Rachel, you're wearing a 26 on your shirt I saw. What kind of support are you getting? What kind of conversations are you having with policymakers, negotiators, anyone, that indicates progress? Rachel Goldberg: Well, it's kind of a two pronged question. Because what are you doing to walk through these days is, we are surrounded by a team–beyond angels, beyond friends, beyond professional people who are dragging us along when we can't drag ourselves, and they're very talented, and they're very smart and tireless and tenacious. And so that helps us.  And in the bigger picture, I mean, we've had a lot of conversations with both sides in terms of, you know, we are American-Israeli, so we right away that first Saturday turned to the US Embassy. They were extremely responsive right away, partially because they could be. They weren't at war, you know, Israel, I do cut them some slack for being slow in the beginning, because I mean, there were still terrorists running around killing people in their homes. When we first heard about what happened to Hersh. So we were spread very thin. There were things happening up in the north, there were things happening down south. I mean, I understood why there was a sort of short start to that end of things. On the American side, we've had incredible conversations with you know, as high up as you could get with President Biden, with US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken, with 15 different senators. They don't care, they said, this isn't a Republican-Democrat issue. This is an American hostage issue. We don't care what stripes you're wearing, people being real adults, which is refreshing and felt very good and supported. And that is a very excellent first step.  We are now on day 26. And I need a little bit more actually, information, maybe action. I'm never one of the people in this that has said tell me what you're doing and tell me what the plan is because I always think that's ridiculous. Obviously, we can't know about that stuff. But because of Hersh’s grave injury, it's different, I think, than if I had known he was just kidnapped and healthy, because I have a very primal fear that maybe he didn't get the treatment he needed, and maybe I'm here on day 26, but Hersh died on day one. So that's very difficult. Or maybe he did get treated and then three days afterwards, they said, well, we don't have any more antibiotics and then he died of sepsis. You know, so there's a lot of different kind of constellations of what ifs that, you know, run through our minds, and that make it very difficult to kind of feel trust and kind of know everyone said it's gonna take a long time. And it's a process. And I feel like well, that, unfortunately, we don't have that. And it's very concerning.  When we were in America, we've had conversations with ambassadors from different countries who were, I think, trying to be helpful. In Israel, we've tried to have conversations with who we can get to, and we're doing what everyone would do, I think, if they were in our situation, but this isn't our world that we're used to. And we haven't found a playbook for this situation yet. There are playbooks for lots of other situations, but we haven't found one for this yet. Manya Brachear Pashman:   There have been reports that hostages with dual citizenship or foreign hostages may be released first. Considering Hersh is a dual citizen, what have you heard? Rachel Goldberg: I don't think it'll make a difference for him. My personal pontificating is that they probably will release some of these poor Thai people who were swept up in this chaos. Or the Nepalese people, there are, you know, 33 different countries that have citizens that are currently being held. And I think I would be thrilled and elated if Hirsch was released. But I would be also shocked, because my impression is that the people that they're talking about are not people like Hersh. Jon Polin:   We both, Rachel and I, are elated for the hostage for their family, for the country, for the world. Anytime a hostage is released. We celebrate for a moment for all of them, and then we get back to work.  The broader point here is, of course, we are most concerned about our son who's wounded. But if Hersh walked in the door five minutes from now, we'd hug him, we'd rejoice and we'd get back to work because there are 239 hostages that must be released.  And the second part of that is, as Rachel talked about, these hostages represent something like 33 countries. This is not an Israeli-Palestinian, an Israeli-Gaza, an Arab-Jewish issue. This is a global humanitarian issue. And every day, I wonder why is the world not speaking in that way? Why is the world shoving this into a simple black and white box of Israeli-Gaza, Israeli-Palestinian? Why are 33 foreign ministers around the world not holding hands and screaming about the magnitude of this humanitarian crisis? Manya Brachear Pashman:   Rachel said this isn't our world. I'm curious if you could share a little bit about Hirsch's world. How long has your family lived in Israel? How did you end up in Israel to begin with? And talk a little bit about Hirsch. Jon Polin:   Rachel and I should say are both born and raised in Chicago, still have our mothers and other family members living in Chicago, products of the organized Jewish world in Chicago, and are feeling a lot of support from Chicago.  Rachel and I moved to California, where Hirsch and one of our other children, we have three kids. Hirsch and his sister Leebie were both born in California. And then when Hersh was three or four, we moved to Virginia where we lived for four years before moving to Israel as a family. We moved to Israel because Rachel and I felt like, it's an opportunity. This is something that our great-grandparents and their parents and their parents longed for and didn't have the opportunity and we do, so how do we not join this ride, as Rachel said. Hersh is a quiet, I always say he doesn't walk in a room and make a lot of noise. But once he's been in the room for 15 minutes, he's gotten into the hearts of a lot of people. He's a really quiet, likable guy with a sharp, very smart, quick witted. Very curious, he's always been a voracious reader. He sweeps categories. When he was seven or eight, he swept the category of US presidents and knew every detail of every president and their years and their administration and so on.  Not much after that he got into atlases and maps and globes, and that has been a constant in his life. He's been fascinated by the world and by traveling the world, every opportunity, including on his own dime, working, making money and taking trips. In high school, he and Amer, and a few other friends had the chance to go to a few different countries, as 17, 18 year olds on their own traveling. He's been dreaming about this around the world trip for which he has a ticket booked for December 27 to India. Rachel keeps saying, you only need one arm to travel the world so he can do it. That's who he is. I mean, it hit me over the last 26 days as people started to ask us about Hersh. And I really mean this, in 23 years of life, he's never upset me. He's super respectful. It doesn't mean he's a perfect angel, because he's not. But he's just got a very tasteful way of being mischievous with his family, with his siblings, with his parents, with his teachers. That's who he is. Manya Brachear Pashman:   There was a piece written by Shoshana Gottleib for Hey Alma. Shoshana has never met Hersh in person but long before all of this came across Hersh’s bar mitzvah bencher at a friend’s apartment in Jerusalem and felt a real connection to him. So she instantly recognized his name when she heard he was among the hostages. Did you see that column? Rachel Goldberg: We did. It's very funny. Our family tradition is that for each of the kids' bar or bat mitzvahs, we would make a prayer book that had all of the grace after meals, the birkat hamazon. And in the covers, we had the grandmothers make up songs about that kid, to popular tunes. And as you know, sometimes these prayer books, these benchers, they're called, get sprinkled around, and somehow someone ends up with one in their apartment that isn't theirs. They don't even know the people who it belongs to.  And this young woman had come across his bench, his bar mitzvah bencher years ago. And at that Shabbat table, she started to sing all the songs because the songs are to popular songs that people know. And she got a real kick out of it. And that became her whole crew’s tradition Friday night, were to sing the songs from the Hersh Goldberg-Polin bencher.  He tried to explain this to his grandmother to Jon's mom, and she said, doesn't this girl have anything better to do than to sing the songs from your bencher? So anyway, she wrote, since hearing about Hersh, when she heard his name 26 days ago in the news, she immediately knew who he was, because she's been singing his bencher songs for years, even though she's never met him. So she wrote a cute piece about that. Manya Brachear Pashman:   There have been really intense retaliatory strikes on Gaza and the IDF has sent troops and tanks into the Gaza Strip. But the ground offensive has been limited in order to avoid endangering any efforts to free the hostages. Are you hoping for any change in approach in terms of this offensive or these retaliatory strikes? Jon Polin:   It's such a hard one because we are parents of somebody who is held hostage. We are part of the family of people of 239 families who are now together in this. But even as we tried to separate ourselves from it, and we understand that there is an Israeli national interest here, and we understand that the consensus seems to be building or is already built that we must eliminate Hamas for the sake of Israel's ability to exist and to move forward.  But we don't get involved in the military strategy or the military planning. We obviously are highly concerned about the safety of hostages. But we are equally concerned about the safety of all the soldiers. We've got a house full of people since October 7, who are parents of soldiers on the front lines, and starting to hit closer and closer to home as we start to see the first few names of soldiers killed coming in.  And we also should say that we're concerned about innocent civilians on all sides, on the Gazan side. So it doesn't really answer your direct question other than we are hopeful that this gets resolved in minimum loss of life on all sides. I've contemplated—should they have waited longer, should they still wait longer to go in at all, and I understand both sides of the argument. But I keep coming back to: Hamas isn't going anywhere, they're holed up in there. And so if we can go very judiciously, and still try every other possible channel to get people released, I’m for it. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Every Friday night on Shabbat you stand out on your porch, you face Gaza, and you bless your son. Can you tell a little bit about how that restores you, how that connects you to Hersh? Rachel Goldberg: Well, I feel like now more than ever, he probably needs a blessing. You know, and this is the traditional blessing that all Jewish parents give to their children on Friday nights. And I feel like he needs it more than ever. And I think I need to give it more than ever. And ultimately, you know, it's saying like, let God lift up God's face toward you and give you peace, which is so desperately needed. So desperately needed every single place in the world. But certainly when I picture him somewhere, you know, I don't know what to picture and I feel like I am privileged to be able to give that blessing to Hersh. I think all of us who have children, your first child is what changes you in the world. And you go from becoming a person to becoming a parent. And that's what Hersh did for me. So I will always be a different person in the world because of Hirsch.  The first time, that first Shabbat when he was just a newborn baby, to give him that blessing was such a privilege that I feel like until I am told otherwise, it is my privilege to give it to him and if I have to scream it to him, because he's far away, then I will do that. And I will keep screaming that to him until he comes home or until I am told otherwise. Manya Brachear Pashman:   AJC and my colleagues here at AJC, of course, have been working with your family to bring Hersh and the other hostages home. Listeners can go to AJC.org/BringThemHome to urge Congress and the United Nations to release all of the hostages. But Rachel, Jon, what more can we do to help you? Jon Polin:   Well, first of all, now that you mentioned it, and it was on my mind to squeeze in as well. It's not just platitudes, like our gratitude to AJC is tremendous. CEO Ted Deutch, on down, we've been in touch with members of your team. They've been supportive. They've been guiding us. And we cannot thank AJC enough for their involvement not only for us, but for all Americans and all hostages. In terms of what people can do, we keep saying we wish we had better answers because we feel the outpouring of support from around the world and people asking us that question. We can give a few answers. And those are as follows.  Number one, if this is your thing: pray. Hersh Ben Perel Chana, or Hersh ben Perel Chana v’Yonatan Shimshon. Have him in your prayers and have all the hostages in your prayers.  The second thing is: awareness. We think it's critical to keep telling the story of all the hostages. In our case, it's Hersh, but it's all the hostages. News cycles in the world happen quickly, news cycles in Congress and in Washington happen quickly. And we need listeners of this podcast, we need the American Jewish community, we need everybody who can to keep this story alive, keep it front and center. When the world starts to move on from the story, don’t let them. This is a global humanitarian crisis. We cannot forget these people.  The third is outreach. We, in our case, put up Bring Hersh Home social channels, turnkey templates, talking points, emails that people could copy and paste, a spreadsheet of elected officials and their contact information.  We are trying to make it as easy as possible. We know that it matters, it matters for your elected officials to hear not just once but to hear every single day about important issues, in this case, the importance of releasing all the hostages. We've been telling people, set your alarm for the same time every day, and take one minute and reach out to your elected officials and just don't stop hounding them. Rachel Goldberg: I think that counting is something that's very easy. I think in the Jewish tradition, we are very obsessed with, you know, we count the Omer between Passover and Shavuot. We count days of the month to make sure that we're, is it a 29 day month or 30 day month, we're very conscious. Even the days of the week, we count as the first day, the second day, the third day, we don't have names of it. We count.  And I think that that one minute call to your person who can be on autodial to say, Hi, it's day 25 and the hostages are still not released, goodbye. Hi, it's day 26 and the hostages are still not released, goodbye.  Now, it sounds ridiculous. But if you have 1000s of people making those calls every single day, that is annoying for the person who's getting the call. And we want to be annoying. My mother always said the squeaky wheel gets the oil or whatever.  I'll say also, being distracting, I now realize, is a great thing. When we were in New York. You know, since this whole thing happened, a lot of stuff falls right into perspective. You know, I haven't worn makeup. I haven't worn jewelry. I just put my hair back. We don't sleep very well.  When we were at one of the news outlets, the anchor, not even the makeup woman, the anchor said, Can we put some makeup on you? And I said no, I'm a distraught mother. And he said, Yeah, but maybe it's a little distracting. And I said, Yeah, I want to be distracting.  And so I feel like I would beseech people to go out and be distracting, go out and bug people that it's day 26, and we know nothing.  And you know, we get requests on this social media stuff that we're doing. People are saying can you give us updates? Yeah, the update is they're doing nothing. That's the update from today. And tomorrow–I hope I'm wrong–but the update for tomorrow might be, they didn't do anything today. Like we're working our butts off and we're trying every possible angle we can. And for people to just make a call saying: it's day 26 and I'll talk to you tomorrow if he's not home. If they're not all home. I think is a one minute ask. And I think the impact is great. Because I do think, we're a David, a mini mini molecule of David fighting a mammoth Goliath here. And I appreciate all the people that keep coming up to me and saying, he's my son too, and I believe it. So do it. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Jon, Rachel, thank you so much for joining us and sharing this story. Rachel Goldberg: Thank you for having us, and I also just want to give a shout out because honest to God, I don't know what we would have done without the support of AJC so far. I mean it. I mean it from the bottom of my heart. So really, that community will always be with us, no matter what happens.

AJC CEO Ted Deutch joins us to discuss the significance of the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting at the Tree of Life and its aftermath, the anniversary, and what it means to Jews around the world after the October 7 attack on Israel, when once again Jews were murdered just for being Jewish. In the final episode of the Remembering Pittsburgh series, Ted reflects on what being Jewish in the United States feels like at this moment, and how the Jewish community is uniting to overcome yet another challenge. *The views and opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect the views or position of AJC.  Episode Lineup:  (0:40) Ted Deutch Show Notes: Listen: Remembering Pittsburgh Part 1: Behind the Scenes at the Reimagined Tree of Life Remembering Pittsburgh Part 2: What the Family of Tree of Life Victim Joyce Fienberg Wants You to Know About Her Legacy Remembering Pittsburgh Part 3: How the #ShowUpForShabbat Campaign Drew Global Solidarity Amid Tragedy Take Action: Urge Congress to Stand Against Rising Antisemitism Music credits: Hevenu Shalom - Violin Heart Fire Tree (Violin Version) - Axletree Follow People of the Pod on your favorite podcast app, and learn more at AJC.org/PeopleofthePod You can reach us at: peopleofthepod@ajc.org If you’ve appreciated this episode, please be sure to tell your friends, and review us on Apple Podcasts. Episode Transcript: Manya Brachear Pashman: This month, AJC set out to mark the five-year anniversary of the Pittsburgh Synagogue Shooting at the Tree of Life with a series of episodes exploring this turning point for the American Jewish community. Our first installment aired October 5. Two days later, the Jewish people faced another unprecedented deadly antisemitic attack, this time in Israel. Synagogues stepped up security and families tamped down their fears to take their children to Hebrew school or attend Shabbat services. In the second episode of our series, we sat down with Howard and Marnie Fienberg, who paid tribute to their mother Joyce. In the third installment, we looked back at how the horror drew people to solidarity.  For this closing episode of the series, I sat down with AJC CEO Ted Deutch, who served as a congressman at the time of the Tree of Life massacre. We discussed this anniversary and its parallels to the October 7 attack on Israel, when once again Jews were murdered just for being Jewish. Manya Brachear Pashman: Ted, where were you on the morning of October 27, 2018 when you heard about the Tree of Life?    Ted Deutch: I was a congressman who represented Parkland, where the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas took place. And the morning of Tree of Life, I spoke to a group of high school students from all around South Florida, who participated in a program about how they can become leaders in the community. I spoke with them about what had happened a few months before in Parkland, and what I had seen from high school students in Parkland and how they responded and how you stand up to violence and try to stop it and how you respond to evil and how important it is to use the power that you have as young people. That was literally what I was doing right before I walked out of the Florida Atlantic University auditorium and saw my phone start to buzz with news of Tree of Life. Everything that I had said to the students in the discussion, that really difficult conversation we had with these students who shared with me their fears of violence, their fears of going to school–those fears hit home really hard for me and for the Jewish community.  Manya Brachear Pashman: Did you view this as a significant turning point for the Jewish community in America or worldwide? Ted Deutch: This was something that we dealt with in Europe, we feared, we stood AJC's stood with the Jewish community across Europe as they, as they were attacked over years. I was a member of Congress when we had vigils with the ambassadors from European countries, in memory of lives lost, Jewish lives lost as a result of antisemitic attacks. And here, that morning is a turning point for all of us in the Jewish community, and how we respond, how we view the threat of antisemitism now as a deadly threat to the Jewish community in America, and for the rest of America to see another example of what happens when antisemitism, hatred are running rampant and where it can lead and how dangerous it is. Manya Brachear Pashman: From your vantage point as a congressman, what shifted on Capitol Hill, if anything, after October 27? Ted Deutch: Well, I was a member of Congress, but I focused so much of my work on the Jewish community. And we had started a Bipartisan Task Force to Combat Antisemitism in response to what happened in Europe. We never could have imagined something like that happening in our own country, especially in this place. I mean, this is the most idyllic, suburban, lovely neighborhood. I mean, it is, as everyone knows, it is literally Mr. Rogers Neighborhood, right? He lives just a stone's throw from Tree of Life. And so our work became that much more urgent. And we immediately refocused our efforts and those of us who were committed to fighting antisemitism, to ways that we could ensure the security of the Jewish community, and we immediately started looking at ways to find additional funding for security and and we dug deep into FBI reporting and research into what else is out there and what else they're tracking and what the fears are. And, unfortunately, whether in Congress, now at AJC, that hasn't stopped since. Manya Brachear Pashman: Did the members of Congress who are not Jewish respond differently? Ted Deutch: There was real support, and support not just for me and my fellow Jewish members, but for the Jewish community overall. Lots of members of Congress, most, know the Jewish community, many of them have Jewish communities they focus on in their own districts, sometimes large, sometimes very small. But the security concerns became real for every one of them – whether they had a large thousand-family congregation in a major city or a tiny synagogue somewhere in a remote part of the country, everyone felt it, everyone was put on edge, and every member of Congress felt an obligation to respond to that. I just remember having conversations with colleagues who were people of faith, who went to church. They were so struck by the fact that they came and went every Sunday, walked into their churches, doors were wide open. And the contrast to synagogues where you really need to be committed in so many places to get in so many places to go to synagogue, because you have to go through security, and sometimes you have to check in with the police, and in some places, you have to go through metal detectors. That really, really hit them and I think continues to, especially now. Every time something happens in Israel, we see a need for greater security at home. In the aftermath of the horrific attack by Hamas. It’s affected Jews, obviously in Israel and around the world and how we view Israel, but we all fear for what could happen in the United States. Manya Brachear Pashman: You left your job on Capitol Hill and became CEO of AJC just last year. I’m curious whether the horror in Pittsburgh so soon after the Parkland shooting was an inflection point for you and your path? Ted Deutch: I wasn't thinking about leaving Congress. But when a friend reached out and asked if I'd be interested in being considered for the AJC job, I started reflecting upon the issues that I worked on, and what I had been through. And this fits into a very specific part of that thinking it was. It was the whole series of what happened, the shooting at Stoneman Douglas, and the impact that that had on the community. Then almost in immediate succession, quick succession, this horrific shooting at Tree of Life. First, there was the trauma in our own community, then there was the real trauma in the broader Jewish community. And then, not that they're directly related, but on January 6, when I was sitting in my office with the lights off, and my electronics silenced as the Capitol Police told us to do, and I was sitting in a dark cubicle in our staff office … watching what was happening in the Capitol and listening as people ran by my office and not knowing who they are. Everything was, everyone was so concerned about violence that day and my first thought that day was how grateful I was that I had just moved into this new office and had not yet had an opportunity to hang my mezuzah. And, right, so where does this fit in? I didn't decide to come to AJC because of some series of traumatic events. But just in terms of a turning point for me, what happened at Tree of Life and how that informed the remainder of my time and I was in Congress and the way I thought about my work, and, and then those fears on January 6, and realizing again, how at risk I felt even in the U.S. Capitol as a Jew. I suppose there is probably a straight line that I didn't see that started that day that led me to where I am now. Manya Brachear Pashman: So, you’ve been here a year now. How have these events shaped your work since you arrived? Ted Deutch: AJC's is to enhance the well-being of the Jewish people in Israel, and to advance democratic values. If we go back to Tree of Life, and think about what's transpired since and the rise in antisemitism as we saw it around the country, and on social media, and the many ways that the community has felt at risk.  The week I started, Kanye West went on his antisemitic rampage on social media on Twitter. The Jewish community is not well if antisemitism is running rampant. So it's why we worked so hard with the White House, it's why we encouraged them to create a national strategy. It's why we brought in special envoys from around the world to meet with the White House to help inform the process. It's why we celebrated the release of the National Strategy to Combat Antisemitism and put together, really devoted a large part of our resources over the past six months, helping to implement the national strategy. And it's why we continue across the country here to look for ways to engage further in fighting antisemitism. By strengthening the relationships we have with others–it’s why we're doing so much more in our intergroup work and interreligious work.  I just recently visited a new Hindu temple in New Jersey, I think it's the largest, certainly the largest in the United States, one the largest in the world. And it was really meaningful to spend the afternoon with leaders of the Hindu community who, who very much recognize that in many ways our fates in America are intertwined.  Manya Brachear Pashman: So in our first episode of this series, our producer Atara Lakritz and I went on the last tour of the Tree of Life building. You also walked through the building back in June, before many of the artifacts had been removed. Would you mind reflecting on that experience? Ted Deutch: When I walked up to the synagogue, I couldn't help but think of my synagogue where I grew up on the other side of Pennsylvania in a lovely community, like Pittsburgh. I was struck that, forget that this was a synagogue, I really couldn't stop thinking that it was inconceivable that that kind of horrible tragedy could happen in a community like that.  And walking through the synagogue and seeing the site where hatred, and antisemitism, and manifestations, the worst manifestations of antisemitism were brought to this lovely place, in this wonderful synagogue. It was overwhelming to think about what was happening that Shabbat and the fear and terror that people felt as that was happening. That was number one. Secondly, I walked into the main auditorium where they were gathering all of the things that hadn't yet been taken away to be used in the museum and the memorial that's going to be constructed, that haven't been given back to families.  There were lots of things that are just not identified, they don't have families to return them to. And to see tallaisim and tefillin and all kinds of items that are used for Jewish rituals and Jewish customs just sitting on this table where they didn't know what they were going to do with them because the synagogue that existed there, the life that existed there, that simple, wonderful community, that was gone. It was gone.  That community will never be the same. And I think for our community, for the Jewish community, we're really never gonna be the same after what happened there. Manya Brachear Pashman: You were telling me before we started this conversation that they gave you something during your visit. Ted Deutch: As I walked through, and they saw how moved I was by this massive display. They came over and made such a kind gesture to me. And of all of the gifts that I've received in all of my travels, as a member of Congress, and now as CEO of AJC, I don't think there's anything that’s as meaningful as the tefillin that they gave me. I don't know, obviously, I don't know whose it was. And it may well have been someone that was a synagogue member years and years ago. But the connection that I felt at that moment to that community at Tree of Life and the connection that I felt thinking about, not just Tree of Life, but tragedies that have befallen the Jewish people throughout our history.  And knowing that I was going to return to New York, I was going to have the opportunity to join the Jewish community around the world in overcoming these tragedies, and making sure the world understands why these kinds of attacks will never, they'll never work, they'll never, they'll never defeat the Jewish community. As we endure this really challenging time now in Israel, I've been thinking the same thing. We've gone through a lot in our history, and we've constantly, constantly overcome, and have grown and have learned and have continued to enrich the world. As Tree of Life rebuilds and will help shape a national and international conversation for years to come about fighting antisemitism. And as we continue to do our work and as Jews around the country and around the world go through whatever security measures they have to to go to synagogue and to drop their kids at day school and Hebrew school and for people to show up for programs at the JCC, there is a defiance that I felt at that moment that is perhaps the most important thing I took away from that day. Because it was awful. But I'm not going to dwell on how terrible it was. We're going to think about every way we can to honor the memories of the lives that were taken, and to strengthen the Jewish people in their memory as we go forward. Manya Brachear Pashman: We planned this series and invited you to speak before the October 7th terrorist attack in Israel and the war with Hamas that has unfolded since. At first we wondered whether we should even proceed with this series. How could we focus on anything other than Israel at this moment? Of course, the parallels between the Tree of Life and October 7th are all too stark– Jews are once again being targeted simply because they are Jewish. Can you share your thoughts on this difficult moment for the Jewish people? Ted Deutch: That sense of unease that all of us felt when we heard that story, like how could that possibly happen in the United States, really, it's an unease and fear that we feel when we've watched what's happened in Israel and when a horrific and brutal and barbaric attack takes place against our family, our brothers and sisters in Israel, we feel that here, and especially when it was, it was unthinkable what happened with this Hamas attack. Just as somebody shooting up a synagogue was unthinkable in America, it again, it puts us on edge, and it makes us redouble our efforts. Not just to fight antisemitism, but to really bring the community together. What I've really been proud of since this terrible time in Israel began is the way that AJC has responded, not just in putting out meaningful information to help people get the facts and get through this, and to fight back against lies. But the way that we've really worked to bring the community together.  There are 16 million Jews in the world, out of eight and a half billion people we need to stick together. Moments like Tree of Life remind us of that, and what's been happening in Israel absolutely reminds us of that. That informs so much of what AJC does, and has done in response to Tree of Life and certainly is doing in response to the current situation.

In the aftermath of the slaughter of 11 Jews inside the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh, the deadliest antisemitic attack in U.S. history, American Jewish Committee (AJC) drew up a plan to galvanize Jewish communities and their allies across the world in an expression of unity and defiance: #ShowUpForShabbat. The campaign, which reached hundreds of millions of people, urged those of all faiths to attend synagogue services during the Shabbat following the attack to show solidarity with the Jewish community. In this third episode of our Remembering Pittsburgh series, hear from some of those who showed up to that Shabbat five years ago on what the experience meant to them and how the events of that week altered their perspective on antisemitism in America. *The views and opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect the views or position of AJC.  Episode Lineup:  (0:40) Belle Yoeli, Anne Jolly, Rachel Ain, Sharif Street, Jennifer Mendelsohn Show Notes: Listen: Remembering Pittsburgh Part 1: Behind the Scenes at the Reimagined Tree of Life Remembering Pittsburgh Part 2: What the Family of Tree of Life Victim Joyce Fienberg Wants You to Know About Her Legacy Take Action: Urge Congress to Stand Against Rising Antisemitism Music credits: Shloime Balsam - Lo Lefached Follow People of the Pod on your favorite podcast app, and learn more at AJC.org/PeopleofthePod You can reach us at: peopleofthepod@ajc.org If you’ve appreciated this episode, please be sure to tell your friends, and review us on Apple Podcasts. Episode Transcript: Manya Brachear Pashman:  This month, AJC set out to mark the five-year anniversary of the Pittsburgh Synagogue Shooting at the Tree of Life with a series of episodes exploring this turning point for the American Jewish community. Our first installment aired October 5. Two days later, the Jewish people faced another unprecedented deadly antisemitic attack, this time in Israel. Synagogues stepped up security and families tamped down their fears to take their children to Hebrew school or attend Shabbat services. In the second episode of our series, we sat down with Howard and Marnie Fienberg, who paid tribute to their mother Joyce. In this third installment, we look back at how horror drew people to solidarity. May we see that same solidarity today.  Belle Yoeli: We saw hundreds of thousands of people show up. And we saw pictures later, after the fact, and videos, and people making speeches, and just so much solidarity. This was captured on the news. I think it really stands out as one of the most amazing responses to antisemitism that we've seen in modern history. Manya Brachear Pashman: On October 27, 2018, Americans witnessed the deadliest antisemitic attack in this nation’s history. Eleven worshipers inside the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh were murdered just for being Jewish. The senseless slaughter inside a house of worship devastated and shocked American senses because it was simply unAmerican. But the aftermath of the atrocity became an American moment when so many people showed up – showed up with hugs, showed up with flowers, showed up with prayers for their Jewish neighbors.  The most visible expression of this came a week after the massacre with the unprecedented turnout of people of all faiths at synagogues across the nation as part of AJC’s #ShowUpForShabbat campaign. Together, Americans sent a message that hate will not prevail. Belle Yoeli: Everyone wanted to do something, and the entire Jewish community mobilized to make this happen with the understanding that as AJC has always said that antisemitism is not just about the Jewish community. It starts with the Jewish community, but it's a threat to democracy, and the murder of Jews in their religious institution is such a breaking, a fracturing of everything that the United States stands for, everything that democratic society stands for. Manya Brachear Pashman: Today, Belle Yoeli is the chief advocacy officer for AJC. In 2018, she worked as the chief of staff for then AJC CEO David Harris. David had spent nearly 20 years counseling European leaders on the rise of antisemitism in their midst, calling their attention to violent crimes against Jews when conflict erupted between Israel and their Arab neighbors. Belle was on her way to a nephew’s birthday party when she got the call on October 27 about what had happened in Pittsburgh. She remembers sobbing in the car on the phone with colleagues as they all grappled with the reality that whether they were regular shul-goers or had just happened to go to synagogue to celebrate a friend’s bar mitzvah that day – it just as easily could’ve been them. For many, what they needed now was to go to shul and not be afraid, and to see others, not just their own community, but others of all faiths in the pews alongside them. What they needed most now was to know they were not alone. So they drew up a plan. Belle Yoeli: A couple members of our staff actually kind of simultaneously came up with a similar idea, which was that we need to, more than anything, rally non-Jews to come and support the Jewish community at this time, and what better time to do that than the following Shabbat. Manya Brachear Pashman: Dubbed #ShowUpForShabbat, the social media-based campaign called on both Jews and those of other faiths to flock to synagogues that coming Shabbat on the weekend of November 2 in support of the Pittsburgh Jewish community and all of American Jewry. The response across 80 countries was astounding. More than 250 million people spread the message on social media, including celebrities Andy Cohen, Itzhak Perlman, and Mayim Bialik, and politicians Paul Ryan, Kamala Harris, and Sadiq Kahn. And hundreds of synagogues across the country and around the world, from Tokyo to Santiago to London to San Francisco, welcomed people of all faiths into their sanctuaries. Those who walked through the doors included diplomats from dozens of countries, federal, state, and local elected officials, and Christian, Muslim, Hindu clergy. Synagogues across the country reported massive crowds rivaling or exceeding those seen at High Holy Day services. Belle Yoeli: There are some times, I think before Pittsburgh, and before Tree of Life and after, where the Jewish community doesn't always feel like we are seen, and that we need defense too. When it comes to antisemitism, because Jews are viewed as white or for other reasons, or when it comes to us attacks against Israel, we don't feel like our partners are necessarily always there for us, although many are. Seeing with such clarity how people were showing up for the Jewish community, we all really needed that. And honestly, society needed that and to see that. That we will not let this stand. I think it shook everyone to their core and not just the Jewish community. That's what struck a chord with people that could have been me, that could have been hatred towards African Americans, that could have been hatred towards the Muslim community. Every single community who has a piece of them, an identity that’s so strong resonated with that. Manya Brachear Pashman: We connected with people who showed up that Shabbat five years ago, and asked them what the experience meant to them, whether the events of that week altered their perspective on antisemitism in America, or changed how they show support to their Jewish neighbors. Anne Jolly: An important part of what we proclaim is love God, love your neighbor, change the world. And so we believe that means we show up for each other. We can't love each other without being present with each other. So we have to be together. You have to show up. Manya Brachear Pashman: Episcopal Bishop of Ohio Anne Jolly was serving as the rector of St. Gregory Episcopal Church in Deerfield, Illinois in October 2018. A former hospital chaplain, she was sitting in her office when she heard the news break that Saturday morning. Her first call was to her friend and colleague Rabbi Karyn Kedar down the road at the Reform temple commonly known as Congregation BJBE. Rabbi Kedar had recently preached at St. Gregory and then-Pastor Jolly was scheduled to deliver the guest sermon at BJBE the following Friday night. Anne Jolly: I called her and we talked and we prayed. And I said to Karyn, I think probably you need to preach on the Shabbat following the shooting at your temple and she said, ‘I want you to do it.’ She said ‘I think I think we need to hear your voice and that the congregation needs to hear you. Rabbi Kedar I think thought that to hear a voice of someone who is not Jewish saying aloud, We love you, we care for you. We believe we are all created in God's image together. And that means we need to show up for each other. It means we need to be present with each other, that to hear that from someone who was not part of their community might be more powerful, more impactful, and more important for the community here at that time. Manya Brachear Pashman: When Bishop Jolly arrived that following Friday she did not expect her sudden sense of fear when she encountered armed guards. Anne Jolly: I didn't realize I was afraid until I walked in the door. And I stopped and had to take a deep breath and realize that I was afraid because I was entering into a space of people who have long been afraid. And that I had never had to experience that before in that way. And I wasn't really afraid for my congregation the same way I was for my beloveds in the synagogue, that they had more of a reason to be afraid than I did. And that was all the more reason for me to be there, and to be present with them. Manya Brachear Pashman: Bishop Jolly credits that night at BJBE for the deep connection that formed with the congregation. In fact, she returned to BJBE many more times to celebrate Shabbat. Precisely a year later, the members of the Jewish congregation showed up at her door after a pumpkin patch at St. Gregory had been destroyed by vandals. Anne Jolly: There were a bunch of them that came to our patch and we were talking about it and they said, ‘We just wanted to show you that we are supporting you. And they were worried that that vandalism had been an act of aggression against us. And I just thought it was kids. And that was a really clear distinction of how our worldviews are different. For them, a vandalism thing would, of course, of course, be something hateful against them. In this case, it was children, it was just teenagers being dumb. But it reinforced that understanding that for them, fear is always in the background because of the violence perpetrated to them – again and again and again. Rabbi Rachel Ain: It was not a wake-up call that hate existed and already the hate was being felt. And at the same time, the love with my neighbors was being felt. So I was able to hold on to both emotions. But really, as I look back at these five years. Pittsburgh to Poway to Colleyville to Jersey City. I mean, I can sort of think back to all of these moments. It's here. And we need to both be proudly Jewish, and strongly protected. Manya Brachear Pashman: For Rabbi Rachel Ain, the spiritual leader of Sutton Place Synagogue, a conservative synagogue in New York City, the massacre at Tree of Life was not her first encounter with antisemitism. She knew it was simmering. A year earlier, almost to the day, vandals had spray painted swastikas across the entrance of her synagogue on the East Side of Manhattan. She knew how powerful it had been to have members of the wider community come support the congregation after that incident. Whether to invite members of the community to #ShowUpForShabbat was never a question in her mind. Rabbi Rachel Ain: It's not only that I felt supported by my neighbors, especially those that weren't Jewish. But more than anything, it was that so many of our congregation members who were not, let's say Shabbat regulars, felt the importance and the value of showing up for Shabbat and they knew that they had an address to come to both physically and spiritually to place their pain and their needs. Manya Brachear Pashman: That same weekend marked the bar mitzvah celebration of a young man in the congregation. Rabbi Ain wrestled with how to balance the sadness and shock of the prior weekend with the joy and celebration of his milestone. And a few years later, that same young man and his brother stepped up to lead the synagogue’s Holocaust Remembrance event, in which teens interviewed the children of Holocaust survivors and shared the stories that have been passed down to them. She wonders if that moving show of solidarity when he was 13 and the formational years that followed had an impact. Rabbi Rachel Ain: What I really keep thinking about is how some of our teenagers who at that point, were in sixth grade or seventh grade. And now here they are seniors in high school and freshmen in college, how their teen experience has been shaped by showing up for Shabbat and showing up for shul when bad things have happened. So what I've also tried to do is, how do we ensure that our young people's experiences aren't only about the challenges of being Jewish, but the joys of being Jewish? Sharif Street: I just remember the massive amount of people that showed up and the diversity of the folks. I mean, I don't think I'd seen that many people show up for an evening Shabbat at Rodef Shalom in, well, maybe ever.” Manya Brachear Pashman: Pennsylvania State Sen. Sharif Street had been in Pittsburgh the day before the shooting at the Tree of Life building. When he heard the news that Saturday morning, he scrambled to find out if his friends and colleagues were OK. He was not oblivious to hatred and its potential to lead to violence. His father had been active in the civil rights movement and Sen. Street had sponsored legislation to curb hate crimes, but he had hoped to get ahead of the trend. This seemed unfathomable. Sharif Street: I didn't really contemplate that in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, it was within the realm of reasonable possibility that someone was gonna walk into a synagogue, and commit such a vicious, horrible act of hate. I didn't see that.” I thought we had moved beyond that stage of antisemitism and bigotry. And I was reminded of what my friends, older folks, and black and Jewish community always said, which is, we have to remain constantly vigilant. Because these things have a way of coming back. It took on a new air, a new level of seriousness to me. Because this is not the idea that people could be killed because of antisemitism in America. It’s not just something of a bygone era. But I realized we were living in that era today. Manya Brachear Pashman: Sen. Street accompanied a friend to Temple Rodef Sholom in Philadelphia a week later and he has a few indelible memories from that night.  Sharif Street: People from every walk of life. Some people who were obviously maybe were not Jewish, who just wanted to express their support and their solidarity. And the look on the faces of people who are members, who were just, who felt so troubled, so shaken. And to see all the support from people, I think, made people feel like even in this world that seems so cruel in that moment that there were many people who are good, who stood with them. And I think a lot of times, folks who are doing these kinds of acts of hate and terror want to make folks, in this case Jewish people, feel isolated and alone. And I think that the service allow people to recognize you're not alone. And that people from all walks of life stand with you and stand against these horrible acts of hate. I think those of us who were, I would say the under-50 crowd and the younger you got, the more there was a level of shock, found it more disturbing because I guess we were further removed from an era when things like this when vicious acts of violence against people for antisemitism, racism and other forms of bigotry were more commonplace. People were wanting to make sure that this is not the beginning of a new chapter. Hopefully in our lifetimes we’ll remember this as a disturbing outlier, not the beginning of an era. Jennifer Mendelsohn: What really struck me about it was how simple it was, all we asked people to do was quite literally show up. You didn't have to wave a protest flag. You didn't have to donate money somewhere. You didn't have to go on a march. It was literally just saying, ‘Come be with us this evening. We're hurting. And to have that answered so resoundingly was incredibly inspiring. Manya Brachear Pashman: Jennifer Mendelsohn helped create the DNA reunion project at the Center for Jewish History, which uses the power of genetic genealogy to reconnect Holocaust survivors and their children to relatives from whom they were separated. While she did not regularly attend Shabbat services, she and her husband thought it was important to show up at Fulton Street Synagogue in Baltimore on November 2, 2018.  Jennifer Mendelsohn: I walked in, and there's just no way to express what it was like. There were probably 300 people there. And you know, we normally do a potluck dinner. And I looked and there was, you know, there was no room to put down all the food, there was no prayer books, there were people, you know, just packed in. And I remember seeing the faces of neighbors of ours, non Jewish neighbors, and I immediately just got so overcome, and they just sort of smiled at me. And just to know that they had taken the time on a Friday night just to say, we care, and we're here with you. It was unbelievably powerful. Manya Brachear Pashman: Clergy and congregants from across different religious traditions helped light memorial candles for the 11 victims in Pittsburgh and the congregation sang “We Shall Overcome.” Jennifer Mendelsohn: I feel like every time I go back, I remember how nice it feels to be at synagogue. You always think like, Oh, it's so much easier to just, you know, sit on your couch with your fuzzy slippers. But it's, you know, it's always nice to be there. And all of the rituals are so familiar, you know, lighting candles, and, you know, welcoming the Sabbath bride and all of that, and the songs and it just reminded me that, you know, I'm not a particularly religious person in terms of practice or ritual. But it reminded me that, you know, that's where I come from, those are my people. And it was just very comforting to be in that environment at a time of such tragedy to just be around familiar sounds and smells and sights and all of that.” Manya Brachear Pashman: For Mendelsohn, 2018 had already been fraught and eye-opening, as she had become the target of online antisemitism because of a political project on Twitter. As someone who deals with the Holocaust on a daily basis, her shock surprised her. Jennifer Mendelsohn: This event sort of crystallized the sense that, you know, antisemitism was still around and perhaps, you know, coming back with a new fearsome edge… It was very hard to fathom. You know you you spend this much time thinking about the Holocaust and dealing with families shattered by genocide that was, you know, spurred by just hatred. And you think, ‘Well, surely this will never happen again, because everyone understands, and clearly people don't. So it was a very sobering experience to feel threatened again, as an American Jew. Manya Brachear Pashman: But #ShowUpForShabbat also crystallized that regardless of ideology, color or creed, most of America stood beside the Jewish community in this moment. Jennifer Mendelsohn: The crowd inside that synagogue was exactly the America that my ancestors came to the U.S. to be a part of, you know, they escaped political discrimination in Eastern Europe, and that's really for me what it was all about and to reinforce that that America exists that helping, kind, inclusive America, in the face of this horrific act of violence and hatred was just really the balm that my soul needed at that moment.  

Join us in a tribute to the memory of Joyce Fienberg, one of the 11 victims of the 2018 shooting at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh. In this touching second installment of our series on the events of 10/27 , we sit down with Joyce's son, Howard Fienberg, and his wife, Marnie, as they share their  journey of mourning and resilience. Joyce was not only a dedicated member of the Tree of Life synagogue but also a retired university researcher, a devoted mother, and grandmother. Howard and Marnie open up about their extended period of mourning due to trial delays, offering a glimpse into the emotional toll of such a traumatic event. Marnie details how she turned her grief into 2 for Seder, an initiative to honor Joyce and push back against the hate that creates antisemitism. *The views and opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect the views or position of AJC.  Episode Lineup:  (0:40) Howard Fienberg, Marnie Fienberg Show Notes: Listen: Remembering Pittsburgh Part 1: Behind the Scenes at the Reimagined Tree of Life Take Action: Urge Congress to Stand Against Rising Antisemitism Music credits: Tree of Life by Nefesh Mountain Follow People of the Pod on your favorite podcast app, and learn more at AJC.org/PeopleofthePod You can reach us at: peopleofthepod@ajc.org If you’ve appreciated this episode, please be sure to tell your friends, and review us on Apple Podcasts. Episode Transcript: Manya Brachear Pashman:   After her husband and mother died in 2016, Joyce Fienberg started each day at Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, to recite Kaddish, the mourner's prayer. Even when she was no longer officially considered a mourner as Jewish tradition prescribes, 11 months, she continued to attend services each morning at the synagogue.  That's why Howard Feinberg knew his mother Joyce was at Tree of Life when he heard there had been a shooting there on the morning of October 27, 2018. It would be more than 12 hours before he learned she was among the 11 killed that day.  Howard and his wife Marnie are with us now from their home in Northern Virginia to talk about their prolonged mourning period and how they have held onto and channeled that grief. Howard, Marnie, thank you so much for joining us. Howard Fienberg:   Thanks for having us. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Howard, you followed your mother’s example and recited kaddish for 11 months. Can you tell us a little bit about that experience? That experience of saying Kaddish and mourning for your mother, and also can you share with our listeners why it felt like the mourning period was extended? Howard Fienberg:   I felt a huge amount of support everywhere I went, in order to be able to say Kaddish every day. Which for someone who was not the most observant of Jews, it was a big lift to be able to do that every day. In fact, even when traveling in disparate places, that I could always find, somehow, be able to pull together 10 people to be able to say Kaddish was a big deal. And I wanted to make sure that no one would struggle in similar circumstances as well.  Obviously, initially, in Pittsburgh putting together 10 people was not a particularly big lift. Because the community support in that first week of Shiva was phenomenal. But it's not an easy thing in many congregations, and I think we are fortunate in mine that we always seem to pull it out every day. But I want to make sure that it happens. So in practice wise, that's one of the biggest things, my involvement with the synagogue, and prayer.  The broader extension of the mourning period, in a way, was a result of the constant delay of the trial for the monster that committed the massacre. And that was a result of both just the general usual procedural delays that you would expect, combined with COVID excuses that dragged things out during the trial. And once a new judge took over responsibility for this case, things suddenly snapped into gear and it moved forward. And we're particularly grateful for the judge in this case, just for his very no-nonsense approach moving forward. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Can you talk about whether the guilty verdict once it did take place, and a verdict was delivered, how that verdict changed anything for you and your family? Howard Fienberg:   It was a matter of relief, to a great extent. I sat through almost the entirety of the trial, heard and saw all of the evidence. A lot more than I expected to and ever wanted to, but I felt duty to do so. From an outside perspective, looking at it all, you would say this is a slam dunk case, lined up for all the federal hate crimes that were involved. And at the same time, I was in doubt until the jury came back and said, all said guilty. It's just the nature of things. I was on pins and needles. Massive relief afterwards and the same thing with the final verdict and sentencing. Massive relief for us and our families.  And that did allow…nothing's ever closed. You don’t finish feeling the loss of somebody, especially when they're taken in, you know, horribly violent terrorist circumstances. But you move from segment to segment. So the same as we do in the year of mourning, you're moving from shiva, which is one kind of thing, to the 30 days, and then to the end of the mourning period. And this was moving to yet another period. And what exactly this is and how long it will be, I don't know. But we're figuring that out as we go. I certainly feel a lot more relaxed. Marnie Fienberg: Feels a little lighter. Howard Fienberg:   Yes, definitely lighter. Manya Brachear Pashman:   That's good to hear. That's good to hear. I am curious, you said you felt a duty to listen to those details, even though you didn't want to. Can you explain why you felt that sense of obligation? Howard Fienberg:   Part of it is, somebody in our family needed to. And it wasn't something that I wanted everybody to sit and hear and see. And I specifically told friends and family as much as I could, to stay far away and said, as much as you want to know, I'll let you know. But otherwise, it's horrific. And it wasn't anything that I would wish for anybody to see and hear. But at the same time, it's the reality of how my mom died. And what the circumstances were, what was going on with the antisemitic conspiracy theories that drove the monster that killed her. And what did he have in mind, and what was his intention, what did he plan, what did he do? These were important things.  And the bigger picture, which I didn't even know going in, was the extent to which the police in Pittsburgh were so heroic. And while they were not able to save my mom, they saved other people, including friends of ours, and people who are now friends, who would not be alive if those cops had not tried to charge at the front door trying to charge the building and getting shot. And then the SWAT teams going into the building, and in a couple cases getting almost murdered themselves, trying to rescue the people that were inside. And they did rescue some people. And those people would most likely be dead if the SWAT had not rushed in. Equipment wise, they were not ready ordinarily for this sort of situation. But they went in anyways because they knew they needed to, and they didn't hesitate. And that's the kind of thing that you can only understand, having gone to the trial and learned what went on.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   Marnie, I want to turn to you. You quit your job as a federal contractor and started a nonprofit initiative called 2 For Seder. What prompted this sudden shift in your career? Marnie Fienberg: Well, I think that I was so upset about what happened with my mother-in-law, I did take a leave of absence initially. And I wanted to volunteer. Being a Jewish woman, and having all this anger and grief and all the support that we had received from people, literally all over the world. I just couldn't sit back and do nothing. So I wanted to do something that was really in honor of Joyce, but also something that would help every single Jewish individual if they so chose to be able to take some small tikun-olam-style action, and push back against the hate that creates antisemitism. And I think 2 For Seder really accomplished that, especially that first year. And we were really on track to grow quite enormously, except for COVID. COVID stopped us in our tracks, because it is about inviting 2 people into your home, who have never been to a Seder before and really educating them and immersing them in that Jewish joy and intimacy that you create every year at Passover.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   So I'm really curious about the seder connection. Was Joyce known for putting together really elaborate Seders? Was she just always at the Seder table? Why Seders? Marnie Fienberg: So this is a two part sort of explanation. So one is the sort of graduation to being allowed to hold the Seder. So my mother-in-law, really for 15 years we actually had done where we started at her house, and I helped her and I learned as we went and then we flipped it. And we came to our house and she would help me and make sure that I was doing things the right way and guiding me the right way. And there's, I mean, there's so much to do, putting on a Seder and trying to of course fit, you know, 30-35 people into a house that really should only have about 20 people in it is, of course, part of the tradition. And she never blinked an eye, it was never too much.  It was really mostly about making everyone at the table, regardless of their background–she always had students over, she always had people who had no place to go–every single person needed to feel like they were home. So if you had some sort of dietary restrictions, or any sort of an allergy or anything, my mother-in-law would bend over backwards, she bend herself into pretzels to make you feel 100% comfortable. And every single person who ever graced her table felt like they had never been more comfortable before. They felt like they were at their mother's house. And they commented on that many times. It was a wonderful thing. And I have to tell you, it's very hard to live up to. She was one of a kind. Howard Fienberg:   If I might add in, part of this comes from looking at photo evidence. I've been going through all of the family photos, last five years, trying to digitize and you can see the progression. So early on, there are pictures of Passover seders that clearly they've invited friends and other professors at the universities, students that were Jewish, they'd invite to Passover on a regular basis. And I think there's a turn somewhere in the early 80s, my brother and I would start inviting our non-Jewish friends to the Passover Seder.  And probably around about the late 80s was when it became not just bringing in Jews and my brother's friends and my friends who had never been to a Seder, it was their friends and fellow faculty, visiting graduate students from far-flung countries who knew absolutely nothing about Judaism. Certainly nothing about Passover. It was a way for them to have a comfortable introduction to what we're all about. And in all the context that my mother wanted to provide of it being a welcoming taste of being at home. Manya Brachear Pashman: We talked about how the Jewish tradition provides the process of formula, you know, the shiva and the 30 day mourning period. But this, the length of time that families have been mourning has been extended, delayed, slowed down. And I'm curious if on top of the Jewish traditions that guide people through the mourning process, if the Jewish community helped fill in some of what was missing, helped comfort you in certain ways? Marnie Fienberg: We live in two Jewish communities right now. We live in Northern Virginia, and we have our community here. And then we live in Pittsburgh, in a sense, and we have the community there. And we have been back and forth many times. The community in Pittsburgh, regardless if you were a family member, if you were a member of one of the three synagogues, or if you were a member of the greater community. There were so many ways that there were supports. And even from here we were always invited to participate in them. And some of them were done virtually actually when COVID hit which actually was very helpful for us. I don't know if the larger Jewish community is aware, but the FBI actually has a whole series of people, an entire division that's just there to support families and the communities that are affected from mass shootings, which also includes a grant to stand up an actual group that that is going to help the community at large. And that's the 10.27 Center for Healing in the Pittsburgh case, and that group is still standing and still running, still helping everyone.  So there's the Jewish side, where we all still pray together, where we get together for our commemoration once a year, the families always get together in Pittsburgh. And then here in Northern Virginia, there have been a variety of commemorations, but mostly our own local community at our synagogue is extremely supportive. They’re, of course, another family to us. And this has only really brought us all closer, which has been wonderful. Howard Fienberg:   We've had a lot of different kinds of support structures, I wouldn't identify anything as where there was a failing, other than the broader problem that people thought it was over. The presumption on the part of everyone, when they found out that there was a trial for the monster that killed my mom, was: wasn't that done already? Manya Brachear Pashman:   I want to ask you both this question, what has given you hope in the last five years? Howard Fienberg:   I haven't had the time and strength to go through all of the letters and cards that we received in the month or two after mom was killed. But some of the ones that really impacted me the most, outside of people that we knew, or that knew my parents, I mean, I think we have a whole box of correspondence and cards from people who never met my mother or us. And a lot of those were from non-Jews, who were deeply impacted by this, and were moved.  I mean, it's one thing that we had large groups of Jews that came to our Shiva, for example, that wanted to be there to support and during the Shiva period. There were groups of students that came from universities outside of Pittsburgh, like Ohio, and from Massachusetts, they wanted to come and be a part of it, and they weren't Jewish. They just, they felt a need to support. And that's the kind of thing that gives me great hope. Part of why we look at projects like 2 For Seder as so important, that it’s not just that we're Jewish, and we're other. So I see a great load of hope there.  But at the same time, the fact that, you know, trailing back to the trial, the fact that the Justice Department was willing to pursue the trial, and not just take a plea bargain, but actually present evidence and pursue a case involving such rampant antisemitism, and lay out the facts and prosecute them. That gives me great hope as well. It's not something that is an easy thing. The most reasonable response on their part probably would have been to, no matter what we wanted, would have been to pursue a plea bargain and make it all go away. Because it's expensive, and it doesn't make anybody feel good. Why would you do it? Manya Brachear Pashman:   So I have to ask, if the trial had happened a century ago, do you think the jury would have reached a guilty verdict? Do you think the prosecution would have pursued the hate crime charges as they did? Marnie Fienberg: So there would never have been any hate crime charges. Hate crimes did not enter the American laws until 1964, which is when the Civil Rights Act was enacted. This is why I think that we always need to be so thankful for Martin Luther King Jr. and to be proud that we were part of that. So a century ago, would this have even been considered an anti-Jewish crime, an antisemitic crime? No.  I think that you can look at Dreyfuss’ case and you can say very clearly, this country, this part of the world was not ready for something like that. And they would have looked the other way. Would they have convicted as just a general murder? I don't know, there's a lot of those murders that just disappeared 100 years ago. But would it have been because it was antisemitism? Absolutely not. I would be very, very interested to learn of some other way that that would have happened. But we're very grateful that the same laws under the 1964 Civil Rights Act, that is what this was all held under. Howard Fienberg:   And the other angle is that the monster that killed everybody, he killed 11 people, he was not an upstanding part of the community, he did not have a whole segment of the community cheering him on, helping him, encouraging him, protecting him. That's not the way it worked. And the reactions and the killing of my mom was part of the demonstration of that, that people were horrified and they were supportive of us. And, you know, the Justice Department pursuing the case to the fullest extent of the law, as they should, would that have happened 100 years ago? No, but again, not just because of the lack of statute, but you know, our place in society was not what it is today. And society was not the same.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   I know we've sprinkled details about your mother throughout this conversation, but is there anything in particular in there anything in particular that you want listeners to know about Joyce? Howard Fienberg:   She twisted herself into knots and did whatever she could to help others, that starts with the rest of the family, and the amount of time and energy that she put toward helping us and helping my brother and sister in law and all of her grandkids, which were a huge focus of her life. The fact that she was able to also shoehorn in a lot of volunteer time at multiple different projects in Pittsburgh, as well as being the connector of our family and multiple sets of families, both email and letters and phone calls on a regular basis. It's an amazing thing that she was able to do that on a daily basis and still sleep and function. Not to mention, make sure that she was at minyan at Tree of Life early every morning. It was an amazing balancing act, y’know, it's a hard thing to pull off. Manya Brachear Pashman:   And she picked up someone each day for minyan as well, right? Howard Fienberg:   Yes, so unfortunately, he passed away. Late, late last year.  Manya Brachear Pashman:  May his memory be for a blessing. You know, I should ask, what does that mean to you, when this phrase, May her memory be for a blessing. What does that mean to you when someone says that about your mother?  Howard Fienberg:   I generally have an appreciation. Because, not just of what she meant to me, but the recognition from other people of the loss. And for some of them, they understand what that loss means. For others, they don't really, but they're trying to support. I do take comfort in that. I'm not certain that I did, certainly in the first week, I was too shell shocked to be able to appreciate all the people that were saying it to me. But, you know, over time, it makes a big difference. And I appreciate being able to do that for others, even complete strangers. If I'm supporting a minyan at someone's shiva, I like to be able to do that. Marnie Fienberg: Joyce was such a gentle, loving and caring person and to have her loss be through such an act of hate is where I think we all struggle. And I think whenever anyone talks to Howard or myself or any of the families about their losses, that they can feel that, that they can feel the shock that these people who just wanted to make the world a little bit better, a little bit of a better place, that they would be taken in such an act of hate, for no reason. I think that being able to say May their memory be a blessing really emphasizes the loss that we feel and the hope that we can fill in this space. Howard Fienberg:   And I will say it's very awkward to talk to somebody who's in mourning. Just the nature of it. The fact that we have what almost a rote saying that carries so much weight is a huge benefit. And I deploy it regularly with non-Jews. They're partially taken aback, and they're very touched, because they're used to getting the awkward, Oh, I'm so sorry for your loss, which doesn't make anybody feel particularly good. We can argue about the way Judaism approaches all sorts of things. I happen to think the Jewish way of death, you know, as depressing as it may be to think about, is very practical in a lot of ways. And it's designed to be helpful. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Has the rest of your family embraced that? Have they turned to the Jewish faith to cope with this, to try to make sense of it?  Howard Fienberg:   My brother was already what is called traditional in France, traditional Judaism, he embraced that much more fully, and is much more on the Orthodox range than he was before. And that was a huge part for him as well in coping, and coming to grips with our new life, after my mom died. And that is a piece of it for all of the family in different ways.  One of the positive things along these lines, my brother dedicated a Torah in memory of my parents. And by weird twist of fate, or God's hand, in choosing a date to dedicate that Torah in Pittsburgh, the date happened to land a couple of days before the final sentencing in the Tree of Life trial. So we had just a few days before, this whole ceremony and huge celebration that my brother orchestrated, to not only involve the local community and a huge celebration and things that I've heard about, but never seen.  People marching in a parade down the street, not far from Tree of Life, to introduce the new Torah to its new synagogue, but also in the final writing of the letters, finishing off the Torah, to be able to include some of the law enforcement officers that were injured in trying to rescue people at Tree of Life, as well as all of the families of the victims and the survivors. That everyone was able to participate from our family and our extended family. It was an amazing sight to behold and the simple fact that it landed right before the sentencing was kind of amazing, because there's this amazing positive outgrowth that you might not have expected. And the fact that it perfectly coincided with the darkness of the trial. It’s an amazing thing. Marnie Fienberg: He had been planning this for three years. When Howard says that it was an amazing coincidence to bring them both together, to bring the one of the most Jewish things you could possibly do, dedicating a new Torah, creating and dedicating the Torah, right before the sentencing. There was never a plan for that. It just, it just happened. And it was very healing to the community. But it was also, I mean, the message of the shooter was to stop Judaism, to make us so afraid that we would never go back into the shuls, that we would never go back and be Jewish. And not only in the days right afterwards, where people flocked to go to shul. But this was just one more incredibly powerful expression, that each of the families has done so many different things, to focus on Judaism, focus on making the world a better place in memory of their loved ones. But this is just one more extraordinarily powerful example about how just being Jewish, just doing what we do best, it keeps us going. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Marnie, Howard, thank you so much for joining us and sharing part of your journey with our listeners, it's really a valuable conversation to have. Marnie Fienberg: Thank you for having us. We appreciate it.  Nefesh Mountain, from the song Tree of Life [singing]: O sweet friends, come and dry your eyes And hold each other by this Tree of Life I’m angry and tired of this great divide But I sing, nonetheless, with love on our side Manya Brachear Pashman: This episode is brought to you by AJC. Our producer is Atara Lakritz. Our sound engineer is TK Broderick. You can follow People of the Pod on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and learn more at AJC.org/PeopleofthePod. The views and opinions of our guests don’t necessarily reflect the positions of AJC.  You can reach us at peopleofthepod@ajc.org. If you appreciated this episode, please share it with friends and family and write a review on Apple Podcasts.  

At 6:30 a.m on October 7, 2023, Renana Gomeh’s life changed forever when Iran-backed Hamas terrorists stormed her home in Kibbutz Nir Oz and took her two sons, Yagil and Or Yaakov, ages 12 and 16, hostage. She has not heard from them since, knows nothing about the conditions they're held in, or whether they're still alive. Listen to Renana’s painful account, how she is coping, and her mission to bring them home.  American Jewish Committee (AJC) and more than 110 Jewish organizations have urged the United Nations and all governments to secure the immediate and unconditional release of the hostages. Update: This conversation was recorded on October 19. On November 27, Yagil and Or Yaakov were released as part of a temporary pause in fighting. Take action to bring their father, Yair Yaakov, and all remaining hostages home now. *The views and opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect the views or position of AJC.  Episode Lineup:  (0:40)  Show Notes: Listen – People of the Pod on the Israel-Hamas War: What Biden’s Wartime Visit to Israel Signals to Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah Mai Gutman Was Supposed to Be at the Music Festival: IDF Lone Soldier Recounts Harrowing Week Responding to Hamas Terror: IsraAID CEO on How You Can Help Israelis Right Now Learn: What is Known About Israeli Hostages Taken by Hamas AJC.org/AttackonIsrael  Donate: AJC.org/SupportIsrael Follow People of the Pod on your favorite podcast app, and learn more at AJC.org/PeopleofthePod You can reach us at: peopleofthepod@ajc.org If you’ve appreciated this episode, please be sure to tell your friends, and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. ___ Transcript of Interview with Renana Gomeh: Manya Brachear Pashman:   Over 200 hostages are being held by the Iran backed terror group Hamas after its terrorist attack against Israel and the massacre of over 1400 Israelis on October 7. American Jewish Committee and more than 110 Jewish organizations from more than 40 countries have urged the United Nations and all governments to secure the immediate and unconditional release of the hostages. The condition of many of the hostages remains unknown, yet we know some are in dire need of urgent medical care. With me to discuss her efforts to bring back her 12 year old and 16 year old sons is Renana Gomeh. Renana, thank you for joining us.  Renana Gomeh:   Thank you so much for having me. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Now, your two sons were kidnapped from Kibbutz Nir Oz by Hamas terrorists on October 7. You were on the phone with your sons, as Hamas terrorists were breaking into your home. I cannot imagine what you've been going through over the past 2 weeks. Could you please tell listeners what happened that morning at 6:30am? Renana Gomeh:   Yes, I was on another kibbutz that Saturday morning, with my spouse. I have a partner living on another kibbutz in another community near the Gaza border, which is 15 minutes drive away. And I'm divorced, and my ex-husband lives 400 meters away from me. He's also a member of my kibbutz, of my community. And the boys just usually sleep at my place. You know, this is how they prefer it. And since they're not very young children anymore, we let them choose. So they were alone at home.  And he was at his place with his girlfriend, with his partner, who I love to bits. And about 6:30 in the morning, we all woke up to the red alert, which is unfortunately something which became a routine and we're used to. Since I was also on our kibbutz on the Gaza border, all communities at the Gaza border had red alerts and rockets flying over, hundreds of rockets flying over on a completely surprise attack. We just didn't see it coming whatsoever. I called my boys as I was running to the safe room at the place I was in to make sure that they're in the safe room at my place. And as the safe room is the eldest son's bedroom, he was there but he made sure that his little brother was also there. So they were in the safe room. And every couple of minutes I spoke to them to see that they were okay.  At a certain point they said they're starting hearing gunshots outside the house and I could hear gunshots outside the house I was in. Again, it was a completely well-planned and well-executed attack on all communities at the same time. So no one could go outside.  And I told them it was probably the army defending them. You know, they’re keeping us safe. 30 minutes later or so I can't remember. I've lost track of time to be honest, of that morning. We started getting text messages from other members of the community saying terrorists are walking outside freely, breaking into houses, trying to get people out. I was begging neighbors and people from the community to go and see, to go and see them, go and be with them. You know, try and help them. But no one could go outside. And there were probably over 100 terrorists walking around, getting into houses. So there was not a chance that anyone could help.  At a certain point I asked my elder brother, who's also a member of the community, to call my eldest [son] and tell him how to lock the door. The doors don't lock in a safe room because the safe rooms were planned against missiles and rocket attacks and against earthquakes. So they actually want you to have the door been able to open from the outside, so they can take you out. So they don't lock. But you know, there's certain technical ways to try and keep them locked. So I asked him to call my eldest and tell him how to do it. And then I later found out that he held the door like hell. And he fought for that door. But it didn't make it. And about an hour later, about two hours after the attack started, they called me and said, they hear someone breaking in. Breaking the door, breaking in, walking in the house.  And a couple of minutes later, I could hear Arabic speaking outside. The door opens. And my youngest said, Please don't take me, I'm too young. He was always good at manipulation. This time it didn’t work. And they took them. That was the last I've heard from them. It's almost two weeks now. And I've nothing, I've heard nothing. I know nothing of their whereabouts. I know nothing about the conditions they're held in, whether they eat, whether they sleep, and whether they're still alive. Manya Brachear Pashman:   I'm so sorry to make you relive that. But I also know that it's important that you share your story with the wider world.  Renana Gomeh It is, it is. I know. This is all I can do at the moment, you know. And so it means a lot to me that you're actually giving me the platform. Because what I need your audience to do is to enlist to the effort to get them released now. To get my boys home alive now. They shouldn't be there. They take children hostage, 80 people out of our small community, which only is about 400 people. 80 people were taken hostage from the age of six months to the age of 86. People who need medicine, people who need medical care. It's just plain children that need a mother.  I later found out that my ex-husband and his girlfriend were also taken hostage from their house. My hope is that they've met and they’re together. As 80 people were taken my hope is that someone that they know is with them, to support them and to help them. That's the story you know. As a mother to other mothers, just trying to imagine it was your child being kept there. Just for one hour, let alone 13 days. My heart goes out to every mother even in the Gaza Strip. You sometimes get in the news in Israel, you sometimes get news like a 14 year old terrorist was killed tonight at a terror attack and I always my heart goes out to them and I say you know he's 14, he’s someone's child. But what kind of a mother raises such monsters? Manya Brachear Pashman:   Of course, listeners who are hearing this can go to AJC.org/BringThemHome to send a letter to the United Nations, send a letter to Congress to demand swift action to release the hostages. I know that you are pushing for swift action to release your sons and the other hostages. Who have you met with, who have you talked to about bringing your sons home and what can be done?  Renana Gomeh:   Well I’ve met anyone who was willing to meet me. I was mainly trying to get the media, international media to hear my voice and to get people around the world to hear us. I think the international community has a lot of tools and there's many ways you can help by just by putting pressure, as you just suggested, by putting the right pressure in the right places, in order to release them. Obviously I want all of them to be released, there’s over 200 people kept in the Gaza Strip, as far as we know, I think there's more. But, you know, it's not for me to say. What we need you to do is to approach your governments. And ask them to release those civilians that are held. We don't even know, again, in what conditions and especially released those 40 or so children. Children under the age of 18, from babies to teenagers. They're not part of this game. I'm sorry. They are not bargain chips in the war game. Get them free now without any conditions whatsoever. I can't see how anyone can think otherwise. It's just plain and simple. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Renana, are you getting any explanations or theories from diplomats, people that you're speaking with, on why they're holding your sons and other children like this? Renana Gomeh:   To be honest, until two weeks ago, I saw us as neighbors. And I thought there was mutuality between us, you know, that we could have a future together. Those two people have a mutual economy, have mutual relations, even have mutual cultures. But I don't think we do. I can't even try and get into these terrorists' heads and the way they think, because what they did is not just taking soldiers hostages in order to bargain them, to trade them, for prisoners. What they did was to rape and decapitate and murder, just for the sake of fun.  They came in, had cameras, to have this horror filmed, and put on Facebook and on TikTok. So I can't even begin to try and understand but I reckon they probably want to bargain them for the prisoners, which as far as I'm concerned…I don't care. I think the actions they took cannot be justified in normal rules of war. I can't, I can't explain. It's not for bargaining. It's for fun.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   Are you being told there are limits to what diplomats can do or is anyone telling you their hands are tied, or are you getting unequivocal unbridled assurance that everything is being done? Renana Gomeh:   I'm not really told anything at the moment, but I'm not an expert. I understand that not everything can be told. If there are efforts being done, which I hope there are, they can’t share it with 200 families. My hopes are that anyone with the right mind understands that this situation can not go on. And the children cannot stay held by terrorists for not even one hour, let alone a day or a month. And that has to be over, no matter what. I don't care if the war still goes on after. I don't believe there's any other way to get them released, but diplomatic pressure. I think this is the way to do it. But I'm not sure there’s anyone to negotiate with. So you know, the other side is so different to us. And their morales are so different from ours, apparently. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Are you traveling places to meet with government officials, and do those government officials include Israel, America, beyond that? Renana Gomeh:   I'm willing to do anything to get my kids back home. And to get everyone's kids back home. I have another daughter, my eldest, who's 21, who was also in Nir Oz at that horrible, horror day. And who's traumatized. Thank God, her boyfriend was around and held the door. And luckily, they got out alive but very, very deeply scarred. And I have to take that into consideration while making decisions about traveling far away. But I'm doing my best by Zoom. I'm trying to get my voice heard in any way I can, under those conditions. And I still have her to think of, she's all I have at the moment. So she deserves her mother to be around. Even [if] she's willing for me to do anything to get her father and her brothers back. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Where are you staying now? Renana Gomeh:   We've been evacuated to a beautiful hotel suite in Eilat. My boys love Eilat. I was here with them two months ago on summer vacation. It took me years after I got divorced to get to this point where I can take them to a summer holiday on my own. So it was very meaningful also. So I'm finding it very very hard to walk around in Eilat. But everyone from my–what's left of my community of what was Nir Oz–everyone were evacuated to this hotel and we found it very important to be together.  This community, you know, it's like a big family to us. This is why we decided to stay here with them. It's very hard because it's very far away from everywhere in Israel. I know for people in the States internal flights seem like a normal bus. But for us, it's not. But at least it feels safe-ish. I don't think anyone who's now staying here could bear even one more alarm.  People ran for their lives, people fought terrorists. People jumped out of burning houses, people fell out of windows, people were hiding in bushes, people were faking themselves dead. There's not even a… I can't even start to describe, you know, for me, the horror was the fact that my children were taken away. But other people experienced horrors themselves. So we're here with our big family, the kibbutz, trying to recover from ashes. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Much of the world's attention is on what's going on now in Gaza. What do you have to say to journalists who are covering this war? Renana Gomeh:   The last thing I want, as a human being, as a mother, as a woman–if we were to run the world, it wouldn't happen. Just saying. But the last thing I would have wanted is war. You know, we've had so many in the last few years. This is the last thing we need. This is the last thing the Gaza people need. People in Gaza are used as human shields, even their children, like I said, terrorists who are 14. Terrorists, they’re children, why are they carrying guns? Why are their summer camps, teaching them how to use guns and to become terrorists? My heart goes out to every mother there. And I wish we didn't have to have a war. And I wish we could live a better life. And I think the people in Gaza had that chance. We walked out of the Gaza Strip 20 years ago, took villages, complete villages out. And it was a very difficult action to do in Israel. Which, you know, we still bleed on it nowadays, politically and socially.  And we gave them the opportunity to become an independent state. And they gave the keys to a terrorist organization, which uses all the money that the EU and whoever is giving them in order to weaponize themselves and in order to become terrorists and to educate their children to become terrorists.  I used to tell my children all the time: your life is so much better than children in Gaza. You have education, you have running water, you have electricity. And you have the morals that the Jewish world gives to their children: of equality, of mutuality, of giving away from yourself and no wish to get something in return.  The other side does the opposite. We treasure life as Jews and they treasure death. So I'm sorry, but my sympathy is gone. I want my children back home, now, alive. Afterwards, we can speak about having a war or not having a war, the conditions they’re in, the humanitarian solutions. But the world should know that what happens there is not an independent state. It's a terrorist organization, holding civilians, hostages. Their own civilians. My heart goes out to every child and every mother there. It's not their fault. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Thank you so much for sharing your perspective, sharing your family's story. And I am praying and we are all doing everything we can to help you get your sons and the other hostages home. And I pray that that happens very soon. Thank you so much for joining us. Renana Gomeh:   I just want them–I just want my boys back home alive now and I want you to help us do it in any way you can. Thank you so much for having me. Manya Brachear Pashman:   If you would like to help make a difference, go to AJC.org/BringThemHome. There you can urge the United Nations and members of Congress to secure the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages being held by Hamas terrorists in Gaza.  

Jason Isaacson, AJC’s Chief Policy and Political Affairs Officer, joins us to break down U.S. President Joe Biden’s historic wartime visit to Israel and his message to Iran and its terror proxies Hamas and Hezbollah. Jason also shares his take on the fast-moving situation, including the fallout from the explosion at the Gaza hospital, the announcement of humanitarian aid to Gaza, and the growing antisemitic attacks in the Middle East and Europe.  *The views and opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect the views or position of AJC.  Episode Lineup:  (0:40) Jason Isaacson Show Notes: Listen – People of the Pod on the Israel-Hamas War: Mai Gutman Was Supposed to Be at the Music Festival: IDF Lone Soldier Recounts Harrowing Week Responding to Hamas Terror: IsraAID CEO on How You Can Help Israelis Right Now Learn: What Everyone Needs to Know About Hamas’ Lie About a Rocket Strike on a Gaza Hospital AJC.org/AttackonIsrael  Donate: AJC.org/SupportIsrael Follow People of the Pod on your favorite podcast app, and learn more at AJC.org/PeopleofthePod You can reach us at: peopleofthepod@ajc.org If you’ve appreciated this episode, please be sure to tell your friends, and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Transcript of Interview with Jason Isaacson: President Joe Biden: October 7th, which was a sacred Jewish holiday, became the deadliest day for the Jewish people since the Holocaust.  It has brought to the surface painful memories and scars left by a millennia of antisemitism and the genocide of the Jewish people. The world watched then, it knew, and the world did nothing.  We will not stand by and do nothing again.  Not today, not tomorrow, not ever. To those who are living in limbo waiting desperately to learn the fate of a loved one, especially to families of the hostages: You’re not alone. Manya Brachear Pashman:   On October 18th, 2023, President Joe Biden became the first American President to visit Israel during wartime, demonstrating his unequivocal support for the Israeli government. Here to talk about President Biden's visit is Jason Isaacson, AJC's chief policy and political affairs officer, joining us from Berlin where he's witnessed some of the European response to the crisis. Jason, welcome back to People of the Pod. Jason Isaacson:   Thank you, Manya.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   I am always shocked when the President goes to a war zone like he did go to Ukraine in February, or in this case, Israel. What did President Biden's visit signal about his support for Israel during this time? Jason Isaacson:   This is a president who has long identified himself as a strong supporter of Israel, who has spoken again and again, throughout his political career, from the time that he was a young man serving in the US Senate, of his support for, his identification with Israel.  But to hear him speak, as he spoke on Wednesday, in Tel Aviv, after meeting with the Israeli war cabinet that Prime Minister Netanyahu assembled, after other meetings that took place as well, to hear him speak with such passion, such conviction about the priority for the United States, of standing by Israel, of identifying with the struggle that Israel now faces against Hamas terror.  To hear him talk about “the nations of conscience,” as he referred to the US and Israel together. The struggle that the Jewish people have had over the centuries, the fight against antisemitism, his references to the Holocaust. All of that, and to say that the United States was standing by Israel, in the fullest possible way, the deployment of an aircraft carrier battle group to the eastern Mediterranean. Another aircraft carrier battle group, steaming to the eastern Mediterranean as well to provide additional support. The package of additional military assistance. He described it as an unprecedented package of military assistance that he is asking Congress to approve, to help Israel through this difficult time.  All of these statements and his just physical presence in Israel, in the midst of war, spoke volumes of the support that the United States has for Israel. And he also spoke frankly, about the tragedy that occurred the night before he arrived, at a hospital in Gaza. And the fact that all the indications are that this was caused by the fire of Palestinian Islamic Jihad, the rocket that misfired. It wasn't, as so much of the media and so much of the region, frankly, has alleged that it was somehow the work of Israel.  Very clearly from the evidence that has been accumulated by U.S. surveillance and other means of data collection. This was something that was a misfire from the Palestinian side. All of that, packaged into a single presentation by the president at the old American Embassy in Tel Aviv, just spoke volumes of the support that the United States has for Israel, that the US is standing by Israel in this very difficult time. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Let's talk about people who immediately assumed that it was an Israeli airstrike that caused that explosion at that hospital. Many did jump on board with that argument, including Jordan and Egypt. And those are countries with whom Israel has had peace agreements for quite some time, but they seem to embrace that story right away. What is going on with the the Arab nations? What has their response been to this violence? Jason Isaacson:   It's profoundly disappointing. Lies have velocity and in the age of social media, enormous power, and circulation that really just can't be turned back without a huge effort to introduce the truth into the narrative. The lies that have been told about Israel for decades, have saturated the region and frankly, the world, and a lot of the international media as well, quite regrettably. Even in our own country.  So it's easy to believe that if you've been told for decades, that Israel is a colonizer, Israel is an oppressor, Israel is heartless in its treatment of its Palestinian neighbors, then you see pictures of people carrying wounded people or bodies strewn about a courtyard in Gaza, knowing that Israel is attacking Gaza, because it's trying to root out the Hamas terrorists have attacked Israel just a few days before. It's easy to believe if you've got that background, and you've been hearing this and been raised on this kind of media saturation, that Israel is to blame.  And it is only later that the facts come out, that the imagery that we have been now seeing on social media from a few sources, highly credible sources, what the United States government has now found through its own quite formidable means of data collection, that that this was not Israel, targeting a hospital or firing on a hospital. It was a Palestinian rocket that fell on this hospital while they were sending a barrage of rockets into Israel. There have been hundreds of Palestinian rockets and missiles that have fallen in Gaza and have killed Palestinians. This was the latest incident. It's horrible.  The people of Gaza are suffering. The Palestinians are suffering because of the rule of Hamas. And the more that the region talks about that openly–instead of talking about it privately.  AJC knows from our many years, including recently, of traveling across the Arab world and speaking to Arab leaders who know better, know the reality: that Israel is fighting ruthless terrorists, funded by, supported by, armed by Iran. And waging this war that is really their war, against these kinds of extremists who are hijacking a great faith and fighting in the name of a great faith when they are actually doing everything they possibly can to damage the reputation of and the standing and the principles of a great faith.  And Israel is fighting this fight not only for itself and for its people, but frankly, for the possibility of peace and stability and prosperity in that region. I'm hopeful that at some point, it will be possible for the leaders of that region to step forward and say publicly what they have said so many times privately that they know that Israel's struggle is their struggle. And there have been a few assertions of this, I have to point out, in the last week and a half, there have been some statements that have identified by name, Hamas.  I was struck by a statement made by the UAE ambassador to the UN. Statements that were issued on Twitter, by the Kingdom of Bahrain and by the United Arab Emirates a few days after the October 7 atrocities in Israel. But so many of the statements that we've seen in the last week, have been profoundly disappointing and hypocritical.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   You mentioned the actual threat of Iran to Arab nations. I'm curious what message Biden's visit sends to Iran and its terror proxies on the border with Lebanon? Jason Isaacson:   Well, I very much hope that having the USS Gerald R. Ford in the eastern Mediterranean, the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower on its way as well. There was also, I believe, a fighter squadron that was being repositioned to the region. There are enormous military assets that were already in the region.  But the US has made it very clear, President Biden, Secretary Blinken and Secretary Austin, in their visits to the region as well, have made it very clear that the US is telling the region as President Biden said, again and again, you know, my message to the region is: don't. Don't even think about the possibility of adding to this fight against Israel of joining this fight against Israel. The US will step forward.  Whether the US will not only provide additional military hardware, as the President has offered, and there of course are many friends in Congress who are stepping forward right now to provide for that as well. But the US could also enter this fight, depending on the circumstance, on the possibility of a widening of the war. Should Iran make the tragic blunder of deciding to somehow enter into this fight in a more direct way, there would be a powerful response. I think the President has made that quite clear. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Do you think Biden's visit will deter Hezbollah? Or are Iran and Hezbollah one in the same? Jason Isaacson:   Closely connected, maybe not exactly one of the same, but clearly, Iran would like to see Hezbollah take a more, it appears, take a more aggressive posture. There have been some incursions that have been conducted by Hezbollah, or by people from the Hezbollah controlled territory of southern Lebanon into northern Israel, there have been the firings of certain missiles and mortars. Some of them are not the full scale kind of attack that Israel would need to respond to forcefully and that and that would actually represent a second front that hasn't happened. As of the time that you and I are speaking, let's hope that that doesn't happen.  Let's hope that the messages that have been sent by the President, clearly messages sent by Israel, that it is prepared for any fight and will not allow its citizens of the North and the country as a whole to be invaded by by Hezbollah, it will resist powerfully and it will punish any incursion, any attack in a way that Israel has had to do in the past–at great cost. But Israel will defend itself, Israel will stand strong. And the United States will have its back as the President has said repeatedly and demonstrated by his latest visit, and the announcement that he made when he was in Israel this week. Manya Brachear Pashman:   You know speaking of Iran, I want to go back to that, they have called for an oil embargo on Israel, how likely is that to happen? Jason Isaacson: I'd say pretty unlikely. I think that Iran's threats are hollow, and will be met by the oil suppliers from not only the region but from elsewhere, including Europe, including Azerbaijan. There are energy supplies that Israel produces, as you know, on its own through an abundant supply of natural gas in the Eastern Mediterranean. I'm not concerned about a cut off of energy to Israel.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   In Tel Aviv, President Biden announced that humanitarian aid – food, water, medical supplies – would start to flow to Gaza from Egypt. Prime Minister Netanyahu then added that Israel would prevent any aid from reaching Hamas. Why this turn of events, Jason?  Jason Isaacson:   My assumption is, in the early days of the fight against Hamas, there was a sense that by putting pressure on Gaza as a whole, Hamas could be induced to release the hostages, some 200 hostages that it is holding, that the Palestinian people would put pressure on Hamas, to do so, to save themselves. I believe that there was also a concern that providing anything, allowing anything to flow into Gaza, would provide the wherewithal for Hamas to continue to build the rockets and missiles and make other preparations, build out its infrastructure, and fuel its fight against Israel. So I think the idea was, as in many war situations, you know, cut them off, then move in and try to surgically, as surgically as possible, take out the leadership and, and dismantle the infrastructure of terror. But as the situation evolves, and as it's clear that the Palestinians are, are suffering from a lack of, of food or water power, I think the thinking has shifted with, with the United States and other countries offering to provide additional assistance. I think it's very clear that Israel feels also that their intention is not to harm the Palestinian people, their intention is to eliminate Hamas.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   So, Jason, I am speaking to you, actually, you are in Berlin right now. Can you tell me a little bit, tell our listeners a little bit about what you're hearing, what you're seeing there on that side of the ocean. Jason Isaacson:   Of course, Manya. Before I came to Berlin, I was in Paris, briefly as well. And I know the Jewish communities in Paris and Berlin, elsewhere in Europe, are on edge. There have been large street demonstrations in London and Brussels, in Paris and elsewhere. There was a firebombing the night before you and I are having this conversation at a synagogue in Berlin. There was a teacher who was stabbed to death outside of Paris, a couple of days ago. There were two people who were shot to death in Brussels, as well. There have been other acts of violence. Also within a day of our conversation, Manya, there was a firebombing of a synagogue in Tunisia, which has a small Jewish community that's been, in that country for 2000 years.  So there are Jewish communities that are feeling the fallout, the impact of the propaganda that has raced across the world, about Israel being responsible for the suffering of Palestinians. And supporters of the Palestinian cause have come to the streets. And some of them have come to the streets with knives and Molotov cocktails, and have expressed their anger, and targets have been Jews, not just Israelis.  And this is dangerous, and it needs to be confronted, extremely directly and forcefully as it has been, for the most part, I would say, by police authorities, by federal authorities as well across Europe. AJC is very concerned about the well-being of Jewish communities in the diaspora as a result of what's happening in Israel and Gaza.  We were seeing in the first hours and days of the attacks of October 7, expressions of sympathy from across the planet, striking expressions, powerful expressions. I will not forget the statements by Prime Minister Modi, for instance of India, the most populous nation on earth, expressing solidarity with Israel. But then in the days following that, really attention has shifted entirely, the narratives have changed. And now, what we're seeing more, are demonstrations in the street. There were demonstrations in the streets of solidarity with Israel in the first day or two, including here in Berlin. But, now we're seeing a very different and a very ugly, and a completely misplaced set of priorities and angers and prejudices against Jewish communities. So we need to do what we can, working with Jewish communities, with governments to provide protection to Jewish communities that are vulnerable. And we need to hear expressions of support, solidarity, and truth from governments around the world: what really is happening, what the threats really are, and standing by Jewish communities as we stand by the State of Israel as it recovers from the trauma of October 7. Manya Brachear Pashman: Thank you so much Jason, for joining us. Jason Isaacson:   Thank you. Always a pleasure, Manya. Take care. Manya Brachear Pashman: If you missed last week’s episodes – listen to: Yotam Polizer, the CEO of IsraAID, on how Israel’s leading international humanitarian organization is responding to the immediate and long-term needs on the ground.  And Mai Gutman, a 28 year old graduate student and member of AJC's Campus Global Board, who planned to join her friends at the Supernova music festival near Israel's border with Gaza on Saturday, October 7. But when relatives came to visit, she decided to celebrate Shabbat and Simchat Torah in Jerusalem instead—a change of plans that saved her life.