Find Your Dream Job: Insider Tips for Finding Work, Advancing your Career, and Loving Your Job

Mac Prichard

Build a career that matters to you with job search strategies and career advice from Find Your Dream Job. Every week, we share insider secrets and job search tips on how to get a great job and develop a purposeful career.

Looking for your first job, searching for direction in your career, or just need tools to find a job? Join Mac Prichard, the Mac's List team, and our expert guests every week for job search inspiration, empathy, and actionable advice to help you find work that matters!

Find out more at https://www.macslist.org/podcast

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Apr 6, 2016 • 34min

Ep. 026: How to Make Your LinkedIn Profile Irresistible to Recruiters (Arnie Fertig)

LinkedIn is a vital part of any serious job search or recruitment. Smart job hunters use LinkedIn to tell a compelling professional story, document accomplishments, and show what they can do for others. A vast majority (94-97%) of recruiters and employers use the platform to find candidates who have the right skills, experience, and connections. This week on “Find Your Dream Job,” we talk with Arnie Fertig, a career coach and LinkedIn expert, on how to use this platform to find a job. Arnie knows what recruiters on LinkedIn are looking for. He shares practical tips for building a compelling, eye-catching profile, as well as strategies for building rewarding professional relationships on LinkedIn. In this 35-minute episode you will learn: Tools for making your LinkedIn profile look polished and professional How recruiters use LinkedIn and what they’re looking for in your profile Strategies for attracting recruiters and potential employers with your profile Why you need to be speaking in the first person (using “I”, “me”, and “my” on LinkedIn) What NOT to include in your LinkedIn profile This week’s guest: Arnie Fertig (@jobhuntercoach | LinkedIn)Principal, JobHunterCoach.comBoston, Mass. Listener question of the week: What should my LinkedIn title be if I’m currently unemployed? Answering our question this week is Dawn Rasmussen, Chief Resume Writer at Portland-based Pathfinder Writing and Career Services. If you have a question you’d like us to answer on a future episode, please contact us at communitymanager@macslist.org. Resources from this week’s show: JobHunterCoach.com Find Your Dream Job Ep. 017 - The Social Media Job Hunt World Bad LinkedIn Photo Day | Mathys+Potestio 7 Tips to Make Sure Your LinkedIn Picture Is Helping, Not Hurting, Your Prospects | Entrepreneur.com The Ultimate Guide to Social Media Image Sizes | Social Media Examiner Pathfinder Writing and Career Services Your Career Begins With What You Wear | LinkedIn Land Your Dream Job in Portland (and Beyond) If you have a job-hunting or career development resource resource you’d like to share, please contact Ben Forstag, Mac’s List Managing Director at ben@macslist.org. -- Thank you for listening to Find Your Dream Job. If you like this show, please help us by rating and reviewing our podcast on iTunes. We appreciate your support! Opening and closing music for Find Your Dream Job provided by Freddy Trujillo, www.freddytrujillo.com. -- FULL TRANSCRIPT Mac Prichard: This is find your dream job a podcast that helps you get hired and have the career you want and make a difference in life. I am Mac Prichard your host and publisher of Mac’s List. Our show is brought to you by Mac’s List and by our book Land your Dream Job in Portland and Beyond. To learn more about the book and the updated edition that we published on February 1, visit macslist.org/book. Ben Forstag: Hey Mac been here I have a question for you. Mac Prichard: Fire away Ben. Ben Forstag: We have an audience for a podcast that goes across the country and indeed around the world. Mac Prichard: I understand we are huge in China. Ben Forstag: We are big in China and we even have some listeners in Iran and I’m going to put out my call again if you’re listening to us in Iran please send me an e-mail I would like to hear your story. The reason I bring this up if I’ve gotten e-mails from several of our listeners asking whether our book is only appropriate for people looking for a job in Portland. Mac Prichard: That’s a great question we are Portland is our home town and we are very proud of it. Much of the information in the book is aimed at Portlanders it reflects our strength. You’ll find that if you do read the book that it’s valuable to anybody looking for work. There are eight chapters and they take you through what you need to do in any job search whether you’re in New York, Austin, Portland or even Tehran. The questions that you will find that we answer in the book include how do I find a well-paying engaging job. What can I do to stand out from other applicants. How do I learn about jobs that are never publicly posted. What do I need to do to get started in a new field. These are common problems for all job seekers and the advice you will find in our book will help you no matter where you live. LinkedIn is a vital part of any serious job search or recruitment. Smart job hunters use LinkedIn to tell a compelling professional story, document accomplishments and show what they can do for others. Recruiters use LinkedIn to find people who have the skills, experience and connections that employers want. In a recent show episode number 17 with Joshua Waltman who is the author of Job Search and Social Media for Dummies. We touched on the importance of a LinkedIn account and the basic elements your page must have. Now that you’ve taken that first step it’s time to do more. After all of as of last year there was almost 400 million LinkedIn members. What will you do to stand out in such a crowded field? This week on find your dream job we will tell you how to make your LinkedIn profile irresistible especially to recruiters. I speak to our guest expert Arnie Fertig former headhunter who has helped hundreds of people create great LinkedIn profiles. Ben Forstag has seven practical steps you can take now to shine on LinkedIn and our guest co-host Dawn Rasmussen will answer a question from a listener. Joining us again this week is our guest co-host Dawn Rasmussen a pathfinder career and writing services. Dawn thanks for coming into the studio. Dawn Rasmussen: Thanks for having me, it’s good to be here. Mac Prichard: It’s great to see you again. Dawn, Ben when you two think about your LinkedIn profile what’s the one change that you’ve made that has produced the best result for you? Dawn Rasmussen: I would say making your profile as robust as possible. So many people they just do a very cursory just one liner about their work or whatever. You really need to go in with a fine tooth comb and add as much relative content as possible. Making sure that you keep track of those keywords because that’s how people search for you and for me, my clients find me through keywords on LinkedIn. You have to pay attention to those things. Mac Prichard: Okay good tip. Ben? Ben Forstag: For me it’s just updating my profile regularly instead of one big massive edit I try to go in there and tinker with it every couple of weeks or so. The thing that does is it puts you out there in front of your contacts, they see the changes you’re making and it is just a trigger for a conversation with contacts. I remember during my last job search I made some change on my profile and I got two or three people who reached out to me and said oh hey Ben it’s been a while since we talked tell me what’s going on what are you looking for what’s the good word. I think that’s a good habit to get into just so you’re always up there with folks. Dawn Rasmussen: I was going to say one other thing I actually publish articles too and I had one unexpectedly went viral there’s no magic formula for things going viral. It was kind of a controversial thing I said what you wear determines your career. It was talking about how people should dress for interviews and things like that. It really sparked a pretty big conversation on LinkedIn, I think I got over 117,000 views on that article. It’s just interesting because that brought a lot of people to my profile too because they were checking me out. That is a great publishing platform is to Ben’s point is to have some content that’s constantly coming out that’s refreshed about yourself too. Mac Prichard: I remember that post that you wrote Dawn and the attention you got from it, that’s a great point. It’s actually related to my tip which is there’s a status update section and even if you’re not creating original content to publish on LinkedIn you can take blog posts for example that you’ve already written for your company blog or an organization blog and write a little status update about them there and draw people to them blog. It gets to your point Ben about having a dynamic site that engages people and attracts the attention of others. Now let’s turn to Ben Forstag our managing director who is out there every week exploring the Internet and he’s looking for blogs, podcast, books all kinds of tools that you can use in your job search. Ben what do you have for his this week? Ben Forstag: This week we’re talking about LinkedIn and I want to share a couple of resources around one of the most visible aspects of your LinkedIn profile. That’s the photo you use and I know it seems a little silly to be talking about a LinkedIn photo on a podcast, but it’s amazing how many bad LinkedIn photos there are out there and what a turn off this is for prospective employers. Mac Prichard: Are you looking for nominations right now because I have one I could share? Ben Forstag: Well you know lets hear it. Mac Prichard: I got an e-mail from somebody who wanted an informational interview, good guy and I went to his LinkedIn profile and there was a photograph of him with a cigarette dangling from his mouth. Dawn Rasmussen: I had an executive client who had a LinkedIn profile that had him in a water ski flotation vest with a woman’s hair cut off at the shoulder. It was pretty bad. Mac Prichard: That’s hard to top I guess if he had been wearing Speedos. Dawn Rasmussen: It was shoulders up thank goodness. Ben Forstag: I know our friends over at Mathis and Potestio which is a recruiting firm here in Portland and we actually had Steve Potestio on an earlier episode of the podcast. They had a bad LinkedIn photo contest where users could submit their own bad LinkedIn photos which is well intentioned and well hearted little contest. I’ll see if I can find the link to that and include it in the show notes. On past shows we talked about the importance of having a professional looking photo on LinkedIn. Our specific advice for those photos has been fairly high level. No spring break photos with a woman’s hair in the background. No photos of your cat etc. I thought I would get a little more into the weeds today and offer some more specific tips for taking the perfect LinkedIn profile pic. I’ll be showing two different blog posts today. The first is from the website entrepreneur.com and is entitled seven tips to make sure your LinkedIn picture is helping not hurting your prospects. These are all quick and dirty rules for having an appropriate LinkedIn photo and I will go over them real quickly. One, appear approachable, friendly, smiling and looking at the camera. Two remember this is about you don’t include other people distracting backgrounds etcetera. Three make sure your photo is up to date and they have a great quote here. “If your professional headshot isn’t old enough to buy a drink in the bar it’s time to get a new one.” Look the part, clothes and grooming matter no wrinkled shirts, shorts et cetera, this speaks to your point earlier Dawn. Five, skip the Facebook esk photos. LinkedIn and Facebook are different platforms with different audiences so you want to get a photo that’s appropriate for the LinkedIn. Six, no selfies allowed this is a big one I think especially for Millennials. Selfies tend to be lower quality and it’s clear that you’re taking a selfie of yourself and the image itself is often pretty hazy. Seven, Photoshop with caution, a little bit is great but too much is bad. Mac Prichard: It’s important to invest in your career and your job search and getting a good quality headshot from a professional photographer might set you back $50 $100. Again it will pay so many dividends down the road. Ben Forstag: Increasingly at professional conferences I noticed the organizer of the conference will bring a photographer as part of your registration you will get a headshot. If you’re at an event and that’s an option certainly take advantage of that because that’s gold for your career. The first part of the equation is taking a good photo. The second part is formatting that image so it looks great on your profile. LinkedIn recommends an optimal image dimension of 400 pixels wide by 400 pixels tall. Meeting those recommendations is important to make sure that your photos are crisp and clear. On LinkedIn you can tell when someone has uploaded a profile photo that is too small because their photo will be highly pix-elated or blurry or sometimes it appears like a little small picture with a blurrier version of a picture behind it. Here’s the rub though, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter and all of these other social media platforms all have their own optimal image dimensions. They always seem to be changing those dimensions every 12 to 18 months. For the second resource I want to share today, it’s a cheat sheet for keeping up to date with those optimal image sizes. It comes from a website called Social Media Examiner and it’s titled the Ultimate Guide to Social Media Image Sizes. This is a resource I use on a regular basis when I’m posting articles for Mac’s list, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram and so forth. I’m not going to delve into all of the numbers here but I definitely suggest you check it out. Let me add there is a benefit here beyond looking good in your profile photos. When you’re adapting your images to each social media platform you are so showcasing your familiarity with that service. This is a great way to show your employees that you know how social media works. That you know how to connect with different social media audiences and that you have a higher level of attention to detail, all important skills when you’re talking to a prospective employer. Mac Prichard: Thank you Ben, if you have a suggestion for Ben, he would love to hear from you. You can e-mail him his address is Ben@Macslist.org. Now it’s time to hear from you our listeners, we are going to turn to our guest co-host Dawn Rasmussen from Pathfinder Career and Writing Services. She joins us here in the studio to answer one of your questions. Dawn Rasmussen: The question from a reader reads what should my LinkedIn title be if I am currently unemployed. Hint, unemployed is not a job title it is not gold. Unfortunately a lot of people do that. Mac Prichard: The other variation I see of that is currently seeking opportunities in _________. Dawn Rasmussen: Or looking for my next opportunity that’s not helpful. Mac Prichard: Right what do you think of those? Dawn Rasmussen: That’s not helpful, that’s not specific. I always say you don’t want to draw attention to the fact that you’re unemployed. When you’re thinking about your LinkedIn title you want to think about the job title that you eventually want to have and so that’s the first thing anybody is going to see and they’re going to put you in a bucket. What bucket do you want to be put in. You don’t want to be put in the unemployment and you don’t want to be put in the looking for the next opportunity bucket. You need to be aligning yourself with your target and that will help your audience understand you. Mac Prichard: Lets just pause there for moment Dawn, why don’t you want to be in the unemployed or seeking opportunity bucket? Dawn Rasmussen: It raises a lot of questions and it brings up negative before positive in my opinion. I think you should be optimistic and looking forward instead of ruminating about what just happened and so it’s just a bad place to be in my opinion. Mac Prichard: I agree and I would also add that there’s research that shows unfairly employers tend not to hire people that have been unemployed for a long time. Dawn Rasmussen: That is true, that is true. One thing that you do you want to do along this whole process it’s a fine line but you want to come up with a headline that’s accurate and speaks to your experience but also focuses on your next opportunity that you want. For example, if you’re in the field of journalism your title should either include journalist or reporter or whatever your specialist is. To make it clear what types of jobs you are interested in or what you’ve had. That will help make you more searchable and getting back to the keyword thing you always need to have keywords in your profile. It’s important to really kind of think forward like I said not look backwards. Ben Forstag: I have a follow up question here. In previous episodes we talked about the importance of being open about your employment search and letting people know especially your own personal contacts like hey I’m out there I’m looking for a new opportunity. How do you balance your advice about not being upfront with it with earlier advice about also being open and letting people know that you’re available for new opportunities? Dawn Rasmussen: That’s a very good question Ben and my suggestion is to take your summary section use that as a way to talk about your forward thinking and what you bring to the table. Then towards the end of your summary section say if you could benefit from someone who has this type of expertise contact me. Ben Forstag: That’s great. Mac Prichard: Thank you Dawn. If you have a question for us please e-mailcommunitymanager@MacsList.org. These segments are sponsored by the 2016 edition of Land Your Dream Job in Portland and Beyond. We’ve made our book even better we added new contact and we’re offering it in the formats that you want. For the first time ever you can read Land Your Dream Job in Portland and Beyond as a paperback book or you can download on to your Kindle, Nook or your iPad. Whatever the format our goal is the same we want to give you the tools and tips that you need to get meaningful work that makes a difference. For more information visit macslist.org/book and sign up for our special newsletter. You will get updates about the book not available elsewhere as well as exclusive content and special discounts. Now lets turn to this week’s guest expert Arnie Fertig. Arnie Fertig is the founder of JobHuntercoach.com. where he helps people master the nuts and bolts of job hunting to find their personal brand and shorten the time until they are hired. He is a former executive recruiter and a leading expert on LinkedIn. Arnie also writes a weekly column for the on careers blog for US News and World Report. Arnie is a graduate of the University of Vermont, Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government and the Hebrew Union college-Jewish Institute of Religion where he was ordained as a rabbi. Arnie thanks for joining us on the show. Arnie Fertig: My pleasure. Mac Prichard: I know you think long and hard about LinkedIn because you were a recruiter for many years and now you help job seekers. I know our listeners are very interested in hearing about how they can make their LinkedIn profiles most appealing to recruiters and employers. Let’s start Arnie by telling us how recruiters use LinkedIn. Arnie Fertig: I just interviewed a recruiter last week and he told me his entire practice was focused on LinkedIn. He uses it to advertise jobs, he uses it to search in a Google like way within LinkedIn to find candidates based on very complex searches. He looks at what people write in their groups and what their qualifications are and reaches out to those people that he thinks would be good fits for the searches on which he’s working. Mac Prichard: Arnie I know you talk to recruiters all the time and other career counselors as well. In your experience is that uncommon that a recruiter spends all of his or her day on LinkedIn and uses the tool that extensively? Arnie Fertig: The latest I’ve seen is somewhere between 94 and 97% of all recruiters use LinkedIn to source candidates. That’s virtually everyone at this point. More than that, it’s used by HR departments and hiring managers in the sourcing and the vetting of candidates as well. Mac Prichard: It’s interesting that figure of almost 100% is so high and just this week I’ve looked at a report from the Pew Research Center which said that about half of adult Americans are on LinkedIn. Perhaps as much as half of the workforce isn’t where recruiters are. Tell us Arnie when recruiters are trolling LinkedIn profiles what are they looking for? Arnie Fertig: They are were looking for keywords to match critical elements of a job description or a position description that they’re looking to fill. They will look at the requirements of the job. They will look at specific skills. They will look at things that would be relevant to the particular employer for example, distance to the job. They might look for the university training that one has had. Certain employers are fond of hiring people from a certain set of universities. They can search to see who has a particular degree from a particular university in a particular year located in such and such a place. They will get very granular with their searches and so that means that you need to have all of that information filled out so that you can come up as the response to a detailed query when a recruiter makes it. Mac Prichard: Listeners obviously cant control now where they went to school or where they live but they do have the ability to plug in key words, not only in their LinkedIn profile but in the skills section. What advice do you give people in thinking about those keywords and what is the strategy behind choosing them and how many should they choose? Arnie Fertig: I don’t think it’s a question of how many to choose and I don’t think it’s a question of just cramming your profile with keywords at this point because recruiters are more sophisticated than that. What they want to see are accomplishments and what they want to see are accomplishments that match up to the kind of expectations that employers have for the role that is to be filled. I would suggest that somebody take a look at several different job descriptions of positions that they might like to fill. Whether they are local or not whether they’re actually going to apply or not but the kind of position that makes sense for your next job. Plum those job descriptions for the key words for the skills that are called for, for the educational background that’s called for, for the verbs that talk about what you’ll be doing in that job. Make sure that you use those words in the way that you describe what you’ve accomplished in your current and former roles. Mac Prichard: Don’t talk about duties or tasks but about accomplishments and think strategically about the words you use in describing those accomplishments. Arnie Fertig: Exactly right. I think a resume is about telling a story it’s about giving a context or a challenge in which you encountered about the actions that you took to confront that challenge and what the results were in each little resume bullet. But in a LinkedIn profile you want to focus less on the responsibilities and more on the accomplishments. Make it much more personal, active and engaging. Because LinkedIn you have to remember is a social medium and it’s fine to use the word I and it’s fine to talk about what you’re passionate about and what really you’re proud of in terms of what you’ve done in your professional roles. Mac Prichard: That’s an important point you’re making because I think many people reflectively treat their LinkedIn profile like a resume and I think the challenge, it’s challenging for them to use the first person to say I rather than put everything into the third person. Why is that more effective why do recruiters like that? Arnie Fertig: I think it’s a question of being personable and showing that this is a social medium and that you can connect in a social way back and forth and interacting. When I’m interacting with you and your profile it’s you as a person not a resume that speaks about you in the presumed third person. LinkedIn is about ultimately not just looking for jobs and saying I’m out here look at me I want a job. It’s about creating relationships and it’s important to create the relationships with the recruiters even before you’re looking for a job so that you know the kind of people that are looking or the kind of recruiters that are looking for people like you. Mac Prichard: Let’s talk about that Arnie, we often hear from people here at Mac’s list who want to get in touch with recruiters and are uncertain about how to approach them and then once they do make a contact how to manage that relationship. What’s your advice about how to connect with recruiters through LinkedIn and how to keep that relationship going Arnie Fertig: It’s fairly simple to do a search an advanced people search on LinkedIn and look for people who have the title recruiter and do a geographic search based relatively close to where you are in terms of your zip code. Do a sub search on that to see who is recruiting in your industry or for people with your particular skill set. Narrow it down to a relatively small handful of recruiters. Then begin to reach out to them just in a sense of saying hi I’d love to have you know who I am, Id love to be of help to you in the searches that you’re conducting and would it be possible for me to have 10 minutes of your time to talk with you. A lot of people will be more than happy to be approached even if it isn’t in the context account of saying I know you’re looking for so and so now please consider me. Mac Prichard: When you get that appointment what kind of expectation should you have as a job seeker when you sit down with an executive recruiter either in person or perhaps over Skype for 10 minutes. How should you approach that meeting and what kind of results should you expect to get from it? Arnie Fertig: As an internet working meeting it’s about building a relationship and building a relationship isn’t just you’ve got, I need, therefore give me. It’s about what can I do for you. It’s about trying to understand the prospective and the needs of the other person. You want to find out what kind of searches the recruiter does, what kind of people does he or she look for on a regular basis. Offer to make connections for them when you can. At the same time the recruiter will likely ask you that’s great I really appreciate that and tell me also about you. Then you want to be able to succinctly provide in a nutshell, in a sentence or two, your own personal branding statement. Hi I’m a _______ ________ career person and I’m particularly adept at doing such and such and my proudest accomplishments are such and such. Stop let the recruiter then come in and ask more questions and find out more about what it is that he or she is looking to find out for you. Mac Prichard: Think about what you can do for the recruiter and how you can be helpful, be clear about what you can offer in terms of your experience and skills and then listen and engage the recruiter in a conversation about how you might work together. Arnie Fertig: Exactly it’s about building relationships, having conversations not just capturing 10 minutes of somebody’s time and haranguing them with your story and expecting them to help you. Mac Prichard: What’s your best advice Arnie about how to keep that relationship going after you have that conversation? Arnie Fertig: From time to time you might want to introduce somebody to that recruiter. Check out their website and see what they’re looking for and see if you know somebody that could be helpful to them. Either somebody who was a thought leader in the field or somebody who actually might be looking for a job who actually meets the criteria of the recruiter is looking for. Mac Prichard: Let’s bring it back to LinkedIn, we talked about the things that people should do and how to leverage LinkedIn into connecting with recruiters. Thinking about people’s profiles Arnie what do recruiters don’t want to see on your LinkedIn page? Arnie Fertig: They don’t want to see a non professional picture. It’s really critical to present a good headshot of yourself with a contrasting solid background so it doesn’t look like you’ve got a tree coming out of your head. Whatever it might be in the background. You don’t want to see children or pets or you standing on a mountain in a distance. You want a good professional headshot first and foremost. You then want to have a good solid title up at the top of your profile. What it is that you do for example, I see on Dawn’s profile, Dawn Rasmussen’s profile she has labeled herself as a CMP certified resume writer. It tells you in a nutshell who she is and what she does. That’s a very good use of the profile the same way you can say here’s what I am and give a job title or give a description of what it is you do. Mac Prichard: What are some of the biggest missed opportunities that you see that things people should know how to do and just don’t take advantage of? Arnie Fertig: There are few things, number one to recognize what people see and what they don’t see. Many recruiters have a paid recruiting package that enables them to see all kinds of information. But some don’t, some have a free account and you never know who’s who. You want to make sure that if you come up as a third degree connection to somebody else’s search where your name and your contact information will be blocked you want to make yourself find-able. The first thing you want to do in your summary is to give your name and your e-mail address. Not your address, not your phone number, not your social security number, and not your visa number. Just your name and your e-mail address so that somebody if they’re interested in what they see in you will be able to reach out and to contact you directly. You then want to make sure as you go through the rest of the LinkedIn profile that you fill in all of the possible fields, all of the possible sections of your profile. You can list up to 50 skills you should do that. You can list your publications and your certifications and your experience and when you come to talk about the positions that you currently have and you had in the past you want to focus on giving people a sense of the size and scope and scale of what it is you’ve done and the accomplishments that you’ve made. You want to feel it in you don’t want to just leave your company and job title, otherwise nobody knows what you do or how you compare to anybody else who works in a similar company or has a similar job title. I think it’s very important for people to understand that using LinkedIn isn’t just about putting out a profile. It’s also about being active on it. Using it as a networking tool online to create relationships. It’s about interacting with the people that you’re already connected to and continuing to build your network. It’s important to understand that there are multiple ways to find jobs on LinkedIn. Not only on jobs tab which is essentially a paid job board but also in your home page on your scroll on the homepage as you’re connected to a lot of people especially recruiters and people who tend to do hiring. HR folks you’ll see that they will often just put a a simple post up that they’re looking for so and so or such and such and those come scrolling by so it’s important to check that. It’s important to check out the jobs that are listed in the various groups that you might belong to. Again you can be in 50 groups you should be in what I think of as a basket of basket of groups. There’s groups based on your locality, groups based on your title or your industry. Groups based on your skill set, groups based on your outside interests or your alumni groups from colleges and universities that you’ve attended. There is all different kinds of groups and you should be in some of each of those kinds of groups. Within each group there is a job tab to look at that and see what jobs are posted there. Those jobs are not necessarily going to be found on the large job tab at the top of the LinkedIn portal. Those jobs are just to be seen by the people in the group and often it’s a way that recruiters and HR people have of finding just a very small talent pool of highly qualified individuals for the specific search that they’re doing. They don’t want to be bothered by having to go through 500 resumes that everybody else is sending in. Mac Prichard: There is a whole universe of niche job boards out there at LinkedIn that are just hiding in plain sight and they are not that hard to find but you do have to know where to look. Arnie Fertig: Right. Mac Prichard: Well thank Arnie, tell us what’s coming up next for you. Arnie Fertig: I’m putting out an eBook, it’s available actually to people who are listening to this podcast on how to booster interviewing skills to get a job. I’m going to be publishing that soon but as an advance to that anybody who is listening to this podcast can get that free and immediately. Mac Prichard: Great and the URL for that which you were kind enough to send me before the show is info.jobhuntercoach.com/dreamjob. We will be sure to include that in the show notes. To learn more about Arnie visit jobhuntercoach.com, you can also connect with him on LinkedIn. You accept LinkedIn connections you told me Arnie. Arnie Fertig: Absolutely. Mac Prichard: We will include those links in the show notes. Thank you Arnie for joining us. Arnie Fertig: It’s been my pleasure thank you Mac for inviting me. Mac Prichard: Welcome back to the Mac’s List studio. Dawn, Ben what were some of the key takeaways for you from my conversation with Arnie? Ben Forstag: I think Arnie had a lot of good points, the one that I thought that was really astute was including your name and your e-mail address in the first line of your summary. I know I use LinkedIn a lot to find people and to reach out and if you can find that e-mail address especially if you’re not already a contact with that person it’s so valuable and it makes reaching out so much easier. Mac Prichard: I agree, I’ve been frustrated so many times trying to reach people who have a public LinkedIn profile and there’s no way to contact them other than through LinkedIn and many people don’t check their LinkedIn mail accounts regularly. It can be weeks even months before you hear back from them. Ben Forstag: We’ve all played the game of trying to reverse engineer an e-mail address based on the company URL and maybe it’s their last name, maybe it’s the first initial and last name. If you can avoid that frustration and just make it very clear how to reach out to you that’s the best. Mac Prichard: Make it easy for people to find you. How about you Dawn, what were some of the key points you heard? Dawn Rasmussen: He hit it right on the head this is a social media forum and you have to write and compel the audience, make them want to pick up the phone or type out a special e-mail to you. Make them want to reach out making it personal is the biggest thing. It really also just craving a constant stream of meaningful content and you can use that to connect to recruiters. I think Arnie mentioned that once you make that connection to the recruiter you can send them people, why not send them articles that might be helpful. You could become a helpful resource to the recruiters but then also show traction within your own profile that makes people want to reach out to you. Mac Prichard: I agree and for me the key point is one I keep running across again and again, people still think of LinkedIn as some kind of online resume book as if it’s an electronic binder and you put your resume inside it and magic things will happen you just have to sit and wait. That’s not how it works and there’s so much more as you say Dawn that you can get out of that platform. Dawn Rasmussen: I use the euphemism that this is a garden and you reap what you sow, if you only plant one or two seeds then you only get that amount back. You have to look at LinkedIn as sort of a garden that keeps … it needs nurturing, it needs to be watered, it needs to be tended to, then you reap and sow what you put into it. Mac Prichard: Good advice, thank you Dawn and thank you Ben and thank you our listeners. If you like what you hear on the show you can help us by leaving a review and a rating at iTunes. It just takes a moment and it helps others discover our show and that helps us serve other job seekers. Here is an excerpt from one of the reviews we received recently. It’s from wildiris2008, that’s her iTunes name and she writes, really impressed with the quality and relevance of this podcast series particularly the guest speakers. I’ve listened to several shows and episode two about staying marketable in the absence of job security stands out. I’ve fallen into that trap of slacking off on professional development and networking when I get comfortable on the job and Dawn Rasmussen who is with here today offers concrete practical suggestions for how to stay focused on the long-term journey, says wildiris2008. Highly recommended for novice and seasoned job seekers alike. Thank you wildires2008 and thank you to the scores of other listeners who have left a review. Please take a moment to leave your own comments and ratings just go to www.macslist.org/iTunes. Thanks again for listening and we will back next week with more tools and tips that you can use to find your dream job. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mar 9, 2016 • 32min

Ep. 025: How to Make a Career Pivot (Jenny Blake)

These days none of us need to be told that change is the one constant in the workplace. Our job responsibilities change regularly--and so do our careers. The old model of climbing the corporate ladder or sticking with one profession for life is giving way to more fluid, transient, and cross-sector careers. Just 27% of college graduate have a career related to their major. And the average American worker switches jobs--if not entire careers--every 4.4 years. So how do you create career stability in a constantly changing job market? By pivoting. This week on “Find Your Dream Job,” we talk about career pivots with with Jenny Blake, a coach for professionals and organizations looking navigate change. Jenny defines a career pivot as “a methodical shift in a new related area, based on what’s already working” and encourages job seekers to continually refocus on their strengths and passions. In this 31-minute episode you will learn: Why changing jobs every few years is the new normal Why you should be doubling down on your professional strengths How to manage your pivot in four phases: plant, scan, pilot, and launch How to avoid professional stagnation and career crises Why even unsuccessful career pivots lead to unexpected, positive rewards This week’s guest: Jenny Blake (@jenny_blake | LinkedIn)Principal, Jenny Blake EnterprisesAuthor of Pivot: The Only Move that Matters Is Your Next and Life After College: The Complete Guide to Getting What You WantNew York, N.Y. Listener question of the week: I've recently had an interview with a prospective employer but after several weeks, I haven't heard back from them. How do I appropriately follow-up with the company? Answering our question this week is Dawn Rasmussen, Chief Resume Writer at Portland-based Pathfinder Writing and Career Services. If you have a question you’d like us to answer on a future episode, please contact us at communitymanager@macslist.org. Resources referenced on this week’s show: 14 Ways to Tell if It’s Time To Quit Your Job | Forbes.com Pivot: The Only Move that Matters Is Your Next Life After College: The Complete Guide to Getting What You Want JennyBlake.me Strengths Finder 2.0 Pathfinder Writing and Career Services Pivot Podcast Mindset: The New Psychology of Success If you have a job-hunting or career development resource resource you’d like to share, please contact Ben Forstag, Mac’s List Managing Director at ben@macslist.org. Thank you for listening to Find Your Dream Job. If you like this show, please help us by rating and reviewing our podcast on iTunes. We appreciate your support! Opening and closing music for Find Your Dream Job provided by Freddy Trujillo, www.freddytrujillo.com. -- Transcript Mac Prichard: This is Find Your Dream Job, the podcast that helps you get hired, have the career you want, and make a difference in life. I'm Mac Prichard, your host and publisher of Mac's List. Our show is brought to you by Mac's list and by our book, "Land Your Dream Job in Portland and Beyond." To learn more about the book and the updated edition that we published on February 1st, visit MacsList.org/book. Ben Forstag: Hey, Mac. Mac Prichard: Hey, Ben. How are you? Ben Forstag: I'm doing great. As our listeners might now, the book comes in 3 editions. We've got a paperback, a digital version for your Kindle, iPad, or Nook, and we've got a PDF version that you can view online. I'd mentioned before that the paperback version is our best seller, but the PDF version is really popular, too. Mac Prichard: What I hear from our readers who buy the PDF is they not only enjoy the book, but they get with it a set of videos, an audio interview, and tips sheets and checklists that you can use to turbocharge your job hunt. You can find a complete list of all the extra resources that come with the PDF on the website, but they include things like a salary negotiation checklist, 10 steps to success, or a fact sheet about how to work with recruiting agencies as well as video and audio interviews with career experts. Again, these are available only to people who buy the PDF version of the book. You can learn more by going to the website. These days, none of us need to be told that change is the one constant in the work place. Our job responsibilities and the skills required change regularly and so do our careers. One estimate says Americans now average 4.4 years in a job. Just 27% of college graduates have a career related to their major. The old model of climbing a corporate ladder or sticking with one profession for life is giving way to the career pivot. Today, we're talking about career pivots, what they are, and how you can make them. Ben Forstag has a website that will help you figure out whether it's time to leave your job. Dawn Rasmussen, our guest co-host, answers a question about how to follow up on an interview once you start pursuing your next career. I talk to this week's guest expert, Jenny Blake, author of the forthcoming book, "Pivot: The Only Move that Matters is Your Next One." We're in the Mac's List studio, and joining us this week as our special guest host is Dawn Rasmussen of Pathfinder Career and Writing Services. Dawn, it's great to have you back. Dawn Rasmussen: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it, Mac. Mac Prichard: Yeah. You were one of our first guests here on the show. I have to give you a shout out. Your episode remains one of our most popular in downloads. Dawn Rasmussen: Wonderful. That's great to hear. Mac Prichard: Yeah. Let me ask you 2, Dawn and Ben, have you ever made a career pivot? Dawn Rasmussen: Boy, have I ever! Mac Prichard: Tell me about that, Dawn. Dawn Rasmussen: Oh, gosh. Well, let's see here. How many? I started out in television actually. I switched over to the hospitality industry. Then, I switched over into education and teaching. Then, I switched over into sales and marketing. Then, I switched over to owning my own business, so which one would you like to talk about? Just kidding. We don't have 5 hours. Ben? Ben Forstag: I've done a couple, as well. I started off in outdoor education, which is a pretty niche field, and then got into nonprofit management, and recently made the move from nonprofit to the for-profit space, working here at Mac's List. Mac Prichard: I've done the same. I stared out working for human rights organizations in Washington D.C. and Boston, and made the switch to politics, government, and political communications. Then, went to work at a university, and then eventually started my own businesses almost a decade ago, now, so a lot of change. We're going to be talking more about those changes and how people can make them with our guest expert, Jenny Blake, later in the show. First, let's turn to Ben, who is always out there on the internet looking for tools you can use, blogs, podcasts, books, and other resources that can be helpful in your job search. Ben, what have you uncovered for us this week? Ben Forstag: On today's show, we're talking about making a change in careers. I'm sure our guest, Jenny Blake, will provide a lot of insights on how to make that specific career pivot. For my resource this week, though, I want to focus on one of the first steps that we have to think about when you're making that change, which is deciding to leave the job or the career that you've already got. Quitting your job is a scary thing, especially if you don't have a clear picture of what you're going to do next. I know there have been times in my life where I've been generally unhappy in my job, but I didn't leave either because my unhappiness wasn't acute enough or because I was too afraid to move. I think the big thing for me when I was a younger person was I was just really passive about my career. I know in one specific job, I got stuck in a pattern where I would reach a breaking point with my position, and then they would offer me a pay raise. That would buy me off for a couple months, and I'd be happy. Then, 2 months later, I'd be right back at that same breaking point. Instead of leaving that job, they would just offer me another raise, and I would stay there. I probably stayed there a couple years too long because I got stuck in that cycle. Mac and Dawn, have you ever had a job where you weren't entirely happy, but you also weren't sure it was time to move on? Dawn Rasmussen: Yeah, I have. It was a difficult situation because the job that I was in, I had just started it actually. I realized that they hadn't really told me all the details about what the job involved. I don't tell this to many people. Why not tell it to 10 thousand people? Anyway, there was one aspect of job I had no idea how to do, and I'm a pretty resourceful and smart person. I remember going to a conference that was discussing about how to actually execute that portion of my job, and I broke down and started crying. I don't like giving up, but I just knew at that point that was not the right job for me because one half of my job, no problem. It was done. I was making changes. The second part I had not a clue, and it hadn't been really told to me in the interview about that emphasis. I had to make a change because I realized I just could not do it. It was hard. It was scary, too. Mac Prichard: For me, I think of an organization where I work that was getting off the ground and growing. It was experiencing dysfunction. It was not a place that worked well. Because of that, there was a lot of conflict, and it was not a happy place to go to work. I had only been there a number of months, and I just thought, "I need to stick this out." I hung on for almost 2 years before I found another opportunity. It did get better, but the lesson I took from that experience was if it's not working after 3 to 6 months, you probably should move on. Ben Forstag: Yeah, I think one of the themes that you hear in each one of our stories is that sometimes, there's a virtue to quitting. Oftentimes, we're told, "You never want to quit. Quitters never win. Winners never quit." Sometimes, it isn't the right fit for you personally, or it isn't making you happy. There's a virtue in quitting. My resource this week is a cheat sheet to provide you some perspective on when you migth want to consider leaving your job, when it would be a virtue. It's a post from Forbes.com, and it's titled "14 Ways to Tell if its Time to Quit your Job." It's a real long article, and they go into depth with each one of these points. I'm just going to read the kind of top lines here. Here are the 14 things you might want to think about: 1. If you're miserable every morning. I've been there. That's a tough one. 2. If your company is sinking, like Mac's experience. 3. If you really dislike the people you work with and/or your boss. 4. You're constantly stressed, negative, and/or unhappy at work. 5. Your work-related stress is affecting your physical health. 6. You don't fit in with the company culture and/or you don't believe in the company anymore. 7. Your work performance is suffering. 8. You no longer have good work/life balance. 9. Your skills are not being tapped. 10. Your job duties have changed, increased, but the pay hasn't. 11. Your ideas are not being heard or used. 12. You're bored and stagnating at your job. 13. You are experiencing verbal abuse, sexual harassment, or are aware of any other illegal type of behavior. 14. You're just generally not happy. I think all of these are good points to think about. The one caveat I would throw in here is that there are times in every job where you might feel like this for a little bit, and it's about differentiating whether this is a temporary feeling or it's been going on for 3 to 6 months, as you pointed out. Mac Prichard: It's important for people to remember that they do have choices. Sometimes, you have to stay with a job because you have bills to pay, and the pay check is important. You do have to do that, but that doesn't stop you from also thinking about what your next move is going to be and where you might go, and taking steps to do that while you continue to work in a job that, frankly, isn't meeting your needs anymore. You do have choices. Ben Forstag: Yeah. Obviously, some of these are a bit more of a deal-breaker than others, right? If you're being sexually harassed, verbal abuse, or there's something illegal going on, it's probably best to leave as soon as possible. Others, where your work/life balance is suffering, that's one of these things where you might look for a long-term trend. Is it trending towards getting worse or getting better? You've got to make those decisions, and like you said, you've got some flexibility in how you direct your career. Mac Prichard: Well, thank you, Ben. If you have a suggestion for Ben, please write him. His email address is Ben@MacsList.org, and he may share your idea on the show. Now, let's turn to you, our listeners. Our guest co-host this week is Dawn Rasmussen of Pathfinder Career and Writing Services. She joins us here in the Mac's List studio to answer one of your questions. Dawn, what are you hearing from our listeners this week? Dawn Rasmussen: Well, this week, we have a question from listener BJ [Roshanich 00:10:13]. BJ writes in and says, "I've recently had an interview with a prospective employer, but after several weeks, I haven't heard back from them. How do I appropriately follow up with the company?" Well, that's a toughy. You have to try to get ahead of this situation. Probably the key thing you need to do is during the interview, before it concludes, is you need to actually ask and set the stage for a follow up process, instead of just leaving it dangling. First of all, if you can proactively say, "What's the next step? When are you making a decision," that kind of thing. Then, if you do forget, sometimes people get a little nervous in interviews, so you should be following up. When you have a sense, maybe a week or so after they are done interviewing people, it's good to send an email. You should send a thank you right away, either by email or by snail mail. That's always a good business process to follow, but really, it's getting ahead of the 8 ball and understanding how their process operates so that you can actually respond accordingly. Mac Prichard: Yeah. Excellent advice, Dawn. This is a question we get a lot, and the best way to answer it is to do exactly what you recommended, which is to ask at the end of the interview, "What's the next step? How's your process going? How can I follow up?" They'll tell you. Thank you, Dawn. If you have a question for us, please email us at communitymanager@MacsList.org. These segments are sponsored by the 2016 edition of "Land Your Dream Job in Portland and Beyond." We've made our book even better by adding new content and offering it in the formats that you want. For the first time ever, you can read "Land Your Dream Job in Portland and Beyond" as a paperback book, or you can download it onto your Kindle, Nook, or iPad. Whatever the format, our goal is the same: We want to give you the tools and tips you need to get meaningful work that makes a difference. For more information, visit MacsList.org/book and sign up for our special book newsletter. You'll get updates there that aren't available elsewhere, including exclusive book content and special discounts. Now, let's turn to this week's guest expert, Jenny Blake. Jenny Blake is a author, career and business strategist, and international speaker. She helps her clients through big transitions, often to pivot their career or business. Jenny is also the author of 2 books, "Life After College," which is based on her blog of the same name, and "Pivot: The Only Move that Matters is your Next One," which will be published in September. Jenny, welcome to the show. Jenny Blake: Mac, thank you so much for having me. It's an honor. Mac Prichard: Yeah, it's a pleasure to have you. What is a pivot, and why does it matter? Jenny Blake: I define a career pivot as a methodical shift in a new related area based on what's already working. What I noticed was that in my own career, I kept bumping up on this really confusing question of what's next, every few years. I thought, "There must be something wrong with me. I'm only supposed to have a mid-life crisis and a quarter-life crisis. Why is this happening every 2 years?" For a while, and we see a lot of shame and blame around millennials. We call them job-hoppers and entitled. I had been working at Google, and I thought, "I must be one of those because every few years, I'm feeling really confused about what's next." It wasn't until I realized 2 things: One, this is accelerating for all of us. It wasn't just me. As I started to talk to more people, I realized we're all experiencing this shift more often. Then, two, the thing that really got me out of it, because I thought, "This is so inefficient. I can't go through a life crisis every time I need to shift my career." I realized that it wasn't until I looked at what was already working and doubled down on it that I was able to move more seamlessly in the next direction. Rather than thinking about big leaps, I started to examine what was already right underneath my feet. That's where I got the idea of a pivot, like a basketball player who has one foot firmly grounded. That's your strengths and what's already working. Then, they scan the horizon for opportunity with their pivot food. Mac Prichard: I think that will be very reassuring to many of our listeners because a lot of people believe that changing jobs every few years is a problem, and there must be something wrong with them if they're doing that. What I'm hearing you say, Jenny, is that's the new normal. Jenny Blake: Absolutely. In fact, research shows that the average employee tenure is 4 to 5 years. Among people 25 to 35, it's now about 2 to 3 years. What I noticed in writing the book over the last 3 years was almost none of the people I interviewed at the beginning were doing the same thing by the time I went to fact check. Even what I had seen in the research, I thought, "Okay. People are shifting every 3 years or so, maybe 3, 4, or 5." That was not even the case with the people I interviewed. I couldn't keep up. Even now, as I'm getting ready to send the book off to press, I cannot keep the stories current. I'm going to put something on the website with what people are up to, but it was shocking to me. Not all of this is by choice. It's not all people who are saying, "I'm bored. I want something new." In many cases, they were laid off. Their company was acquired. Maybe their company was acquired, and then they got laid off. They started their own business, realized it wasn't for them, and went back to employment. There were so many reasons for these career pivots that I think for everyone listening, the message is just don't beat yourself up. If you're at a pivot point, it's totally normal and has to be expected, whatever the reason. Mac Prichard: Recognize that change is normal. It will come every few years. It's not only about changing jobs. It's about changing careers. Let's talk about how people manage that process. What are some basic tips that you give people who are considering a career pivot? Jenny Blake: I do want to add that some people pivot within their role, so it's not always about pivoting career. Sometimes, it's just about defining, "I'm hitting a plateau in my role." A lot of these people who I interviewed are really high achievers. They just want to make sure that they're learning, growing, and ultimately, making an impact. In that case, it can be a good exercise no matter where someone is who's listening right now to say, "Okay, what's my one next move? What would be really exciting?" That's where I recommend people start is I have this 4 stage process: plant, scan, pilot, launch. Plant is about look at what's already working. What are you enjoying most, even if it's only 10% of your current day-to-day work? What's the 10% that you love? When do you feel most in the zone? What are your biggest strengths? What did you love to do as a kid? One year from now, what does success look like? A lot of people get overwhelmed by that question because they don't know. They don't know the exact job, company, or even industry or location. Start broad. Just say, "How do you want to feel a year from now?" What kind of environments energize you? About how much do you want to be earning? If you can even start to paint a broad picture, it's like putting a pin in your maps app. Now, you know a little bit of where you're going, and you can scan for people, skills, and opportunity that will help you get there. Then, the third stage, pilot, is about running small experiments. Take the pressure off to solve your whole career conundrum in one fell swoop and instead look for tiny experiments that you can run. At Google, we had 10 and 20% projects. Anyone in their career can think of it the same way. My blog started as a 10% project on nights and weekends and later became the foundation of my business, but I had no idea that's what it was going to become at the time. Mac Prichard: Last stage is launch, so people have gone through those first 3 steps: the plant, the scan, and the pilot. How do you see people launch? Jenny Blake: You can cycle through plant, scan, pilot continuously, over and over, until you feel ready to launch. The first 3 stages are a cycle. It's about reducing risk, seeing what's out there, getting more comfortable, and someone could plant, scan, pilot, and be doing that for years. There's no time crunch. I've worked through this entire model with someone in 10 minutes. With my coaching clients, maybe it's 3 or 4 months, but if someone's generally happy, plant, scan, pilot, they may not need to launch. Launch is typically when we see the all-in moment. If someone is going to quit a job, start their own business, or move to a new city, the launch moment is when they really pull the trigger and move in the new direction, fully in the new direction. With launches, there's not a guarantee that it's going to work exactly as you have planned, but by reducing risk through piloting, experimenting, and grounding in your strengths, the launch becomes less panic-inducing. That's really the goal. Mac Prichard: Let's talk about risk for a moment because many people, while they recognize that change is a constant, they're uncomfortable with change and the risks involved. What are some of the ways that you see people manage risk as they go through this process or make a pivot. Jenny Blake: One of the diagrams in my book is called The Risk-ometer. It's taking the temperature of where you currently are on an inner feeling of risk. Someone could either be in their comfort zone, everything's fine. Their stagnation zone, that's where they're hitting a plateau, actively bored, or sometimes manifesting as physical symptoms. Then, in the other direction, we have a stretch zone. Something feels edgy and exciting. A panic zone, downright terror. When a lot of people think about risk as it relates to career, career change can be very scary because it seems to threaten our most fundamental needs on Maslow's hierarchy of food, clothing, and shelter. This is how we earn a living and pay for our life, so the thought of rocking the boat can be panic-inducing. The goal in the pivot process is look for activities that put you in your stretch zone but not your panic zone. That's up to each individual to assess moment-by-moment. If they're getting overwhelmed, and they're kind of paralyzed, that's usually a sign that they're thinking too big and that the next steps they're considering are in their panic zone. Try and chunk it down smaller and smaller until you're squarely in your stretch zone. Similarly, to have some awareness around are you comfortable right now, or is it approaching stagnation? The idea about pivoting is that it's really a mindset. It doesn't have to be these huge crisis points in our lives the way that it was for me for a long time because by monitoring and noticing when we start to fall into this stagnation zone, we can then take the steps to come out of it. The first step is that awareness. Mac Prichard: One of the points you made earlier was about the importance of playing to your strengths. Can you talk about the advantages of doing that because sometimes I think people think that they have to take risks or put themselves in places where they're constantly uncomfortable. Why do you recommend that people start by playing to their strengths, Jenny? Jenny Blake: When I reverse engineered what factors led to my most successful career pivots and then I started to study this for dozens if not hundreds of other people, I noticed that there was always a connecting factor. That was either their strengths, so ways in which they had become an expert or things that they really were good at, or people that they knew. Your network can be part of your strengths, as well. Usually, it's both. People you know are not going to offer you a job unless they know that you're really good at something. It was never looking at their weaknesses and trying to fix them that led to the next opportunity, and I'm not saying that's not a good thing to do. I'd recommend, if those of you listening haven't already, to check out the book "Strengths Finder 2.0," either as an assessment, so you can get your top 5 strengths. In the introduction to that book, Tom Rath talks about how much more effective we are when we emphasize and invest in our strengths rather than trying to fix our weaknesses. Particularly when pivoting, one of the biggest pitfalls is people tend to obsess over what they don't like, what they don't have, and what they don't know because of the fear factor. A lot of times in career change, I'll even say to a coaching client, "What does success look like a year from now?" They'll say, "Ah. I don't want to be so stressed out every day. I don't want to be bored. I don't want to dread going to work." "Okay, that's kind of a start, but it doesn't put fuel in the gas tank." That's going to keep the car spinning its wheels in mud. By looking at strengths and what's already working, now the person can figure out how to double down on those and shift methodically in the new direction, whereas just minimizing weaknesses doesn't really propel someone forward. Mac Prichard: One of the things that you wrote about in your blog about pivots is that sometimes, people go down this road, they make a pivot, and they unexpected results. Can you tell us more about that, and how people should manage that? Jenny Blake: Well, unexpected results could be one of 2 things. One, the results surpass your wildest dreams. I've seen so many people who once they were clear that they were ready to make a change, and they started taking those first courageous steps, the universe, whatever someone's kind of spiritual beliefs are met them halfway. Opportunities seem to fall out of the sky. Part of that is I call it the universe rolling out the red carpet. For every courageous step they took forward, another roll unfurled on the carpet, meaning a person showed up, an opportunity, one next clue on their path. The other side of a pivot unexpected is things might not work out exactly as you planned. Nobody I talk to, and there are many people, Mac, who came to me when I was fact checking. They would say, "Oh, don't bother putting my story in the book. I pivoted again." Almost as if they were discouraged that their first pivot didn't work. Nobody regretted making their launch decision. Even, I had 2 friends who quit their job, very high earners on the stock, the open outcry pits on Wall Street, they quit to start an urban farming business, and a year later, they folded it. They both went and found other work, but they don't see it as a failure. They felt so alive. That time really taught them a ton about themselves and about business. Even though they pivoted again, it still all was in a positive direction, which I call up and to the right, like a revenue chart. Most of these experience, we learn from then. Even if what seems like a quote "failure" from the outside is still up and to the right in terms of our fit and what's best for us. We're never really done. Anybody who loves learning, growth, and making an impact, there's always this sense of exploration and risk. Part of it is just learning to embrace that uncertainty and not take it personally, like it's some kind of shortcoming. Mac Prichard: Good. That seems like a good place to stop. Jenny, tell us about what's coming up next for you. Jenny Blake: Right now, I'm finishing up the very last edits on the book, which is exciting. That's my big pivot, is the book will come out in September, which I'm thrilled about. In the meantime, I'm having a lot of fun with the pivot podcast, trying to interview experts on how to be agile in this economy. If change is the only constant, how do we get better at it? Mac Prichard: Great. We'll be sure to include links to the podcast and to your blog, which I know has information about your book, "Pivot: The Only Move that Matters is Your Next One," coming out from Portfolio Penguin Press in September. Jenny Blake: That is correct. Yep, you got it. Mac Prichard: Well, thank you for joining us, and you can learn more about Jenny, her work, and her books at JennyBlake.me. We'll include links to all of those sites in the show notes. Thank you, Jenny. Jenny Blake: Thank you so much, and a big thanks to everybody for listening. Mac Prichard: We're back in the Mac's List studios with Ben and Dawn. Ben, Dawn, what were the most important points you heard Jenny make? Ben Forstag: I really like the central pieces of her book, which is that you can make small changes throughout your career regularly. Back in my grad school days, when I was studying political theory, there was this idea of path dependency, that if you went too far in one direction, you were stuck there, and you couldn't make choices anymore. I think some job seekers think that way, as well. "I studied accounting in college, so I can never do anything else besides accounting for the rest of my life." I like the idea that she has that you can gradually transition to other things, no matter where you are in your career. It might take a little bit of time to go from your accounting background to becoming a professional actor, but you can gradually make that transition if you make the right steps. Mac Prichard: There's a book I think we've mentioned before on the podcast called "Mindset" by Carol Dweck, who is a professor at Stanford. She talks about how people often get stuck thinking they're only good at one thing, and that many people who enjoy early success are afraid to take risks because they worry that if they try something that they don't excel at, they'll jeopardize their success. They just don't continue to grow in their careers. They get stuck in one place. I think what I heard Jenny say was how important it is to have a mindset where you're not only open to change, but you learn how to navigate it because it's coming. It's coming early and often throughout your career. Dawn, what were your reactions? Dawn Rasmussen: I had sort of a interesting thought while she was talking. I think her idea of taking it one digestible chunk at a time is a great one, but there's also the problem of analysis paralysis. Because there are so many choices out there, there's, number 1, the fear of failure, number 1, but then number 2 is like, "Well, there's so many choices. What do I figure out what to do?" Many years ago, there was a company based here in Portland that let people try out or test drive their dream job. It was an opportunity for you to see if you like it and get sort of the inside scoop on what does this job really involve so you know if you want to move in that direction or not. I'm just looking it up on the internet, too, and it seems like there's been a proliferation of other organizations starting to offer the same thing. I think it's a brilliant stroke of genius, really, to come up with these test drive opportunities really to see, "Okay, is this something I want to do?" It helps with the comfort level too because if you don't know quite exactly what it entails, there's a lot of unknowns. If you actually get in there and get a taste of it, you have a better sense of what you're getting yourself into, whether it's going to feel right or not. Mac Prichard: That's a great point. I think experimenting and trying new roles is always helpful, and it gives you a change to try something before you commit. Dawn Rasmussen: Before you buy. Mac Prichard: Yes, exactly. Well, thank you, Dawn. Thank you, Ben, and thank you, our listeners. If you like what you hear on the show, you can help us by leaving a review and rating at iTunes. This helps others discover our show and helps us serve you all, our listeners, better. One of the reviews we received recently is from Spring Rocks, who writes, "I find the very perspective of the hosts interesting. Their advice is actionable, and the tone is encouraging. Also, they stay on topic, and the show title's and notes make it easy to decide which episodes to focus on." Thank you, Spring Rocks, and we do our best to stay on task. If you haven't discovered our show notes yet, please go to the Mac's List website. You'll find not only highlights from every show and links to recordings, but transcripts of not only the interviews, but all the content on the show. If you do have a moment, we would be grateful if you'd leave your own comments and ratings. Just go to www.MacsList.org/itunes. Thanks for listening, and we'll be back next week with more tools and tips you can use to find your dream job.tools and tips you can use to find your dream job.tools and tips you can use to find your dream job. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mar 7, 2016 • 5min

BONUS: Knowing Yourself is the First Step in the Job Search Process (Linda Williams Favero)

A dream job is one that perfectly fits your abilities, passions, preferred working habits, and lifestyle needs. As such, the first step in finding the perfect job is understanding yourself and knowing exactly what you're looking for in your career. On this 5-minute bonus episode of Find Your Dream Job, Linda Williams Favero, career coach and program director at the University of Oregon Alumni Career Services Office, shares the questions you should ask yourself before you start looking for a job. She reads "It's All About You, Knowing Yourself is the First Step in the Job Search Process", her contribution to our book, Land Your Dream Job in Portland (and Beyond). If you’re looking for more advice on how to stand out as a stellar job candidate, check out Land Your Dream Job in Portland (and Beyond). The updated Mac's List guide gives you all the tools you need to identify, find, and land rewarding work. Thank you for listening to Find Your Dream Job. If you like this show, please help us by rating and reviewing our podcast on iTunes. We appreciate your support! --- Full Transcript Mac Prichard: This is Find You Dream Job. The pod cast that helps you get hired, have the career you want and make a difference in life. I'm Mac Prichard, your host and publisher of Mac's List. On today's bonus episode, we're sharing exclusive content from our new book, Land Your Dream Job in Portland and Beyond. Land Your Dream Job in Portland and Beyond compiles job search tips and career management tools into one simple easy to read guide. It's the definitive tool kit for anyone looking for meaningful work. The book also includes special contributions from an array of job search experts and today you'll hear from one of them. Here's Linda Williams Favero, program director at the University of Oregon Alumni Career Services Office reading her contribution, It's All About You, Knowing Yourself is the First Step in the Job Search Process. Linda Williams Favero: I encourage you to answer the following questions to begin your own self assessment process. First, what do you do best? What are your skills, knowledge and competencies acquired through education and experience of all kids, whether it's employment, volunteer work, life experience and so on? They represent your principle assets in the job market. So, an important part of communicating your value is correctly identifying and labeling these skills. Also, your personal characteristics or adaptive skills are inborn or developed early in life. They can include abilities, talents or predisposition to certain career directions. Third, your accomplishments or the things you've done that you are most proud of. Next, what do you like to do? Your interest should help shape your professional objective which should be something you are interested in as well as something you are good at. In addition, your values or your core beliefs about what is the most important in life that usually evolves slowly and may change across your life. Next, consider what are your priorities in life. These are your personal preferences or things that might relate to location, schedules and income. Your professional objective should be consistent with your career vision and lifestyle needs. Also, your motivation. Consists of the drivers or needs that propel you along in your chosen career direction such as a sense of accomplishment, the satisfaction of being part of a team or the desire to travel. Next, where do you fit? Although you may appreciate a good wage, you should also consider many other factors especially when you're working in Portland. First, culture. Do you want a clear line of command or something less hierarchical? Wellness. Does the company offer yoga, encourage noon time runs, discount at gym memberships? Global opportunities. Do you like to travel to the far reaches of the planet or hang close to home? Workspace. Have you dreamed of the corner office or prefer an open environment with beanbag chairs? Flexibility. Do you need an office to stay focused or enjoy the opportunity to work from home? Professional development. Do you want an MBA or the chance to travel to conferences in sunny spots? It does get awfully grey here sometimes. Explore your strengths and weaknesses in other ways. Sometimes more tangential approach can yield productive insights and results. What's most important is to really that you are important in this decision making. It's important for you to consider what you do really well, what you enjoy doing, what are your priorities and what is the most important fit when you think about next job, your next career, your next move. Mac Prichard: If you're looking for expert advice and insider tips like what you just heard, check out Land Your Dream Job in Portland and Beyond. You'll find everything you need to get a great job whether your in Portland, Oregon, Portland, Maine, or anywhere in between. The 2016 edition includes new content and for the first time ever, it's available in paperback, as well as in an array of e-reading devices including Kindle, Nook and iBooks. For more information on Land Your Dream Job in Portland and Beyond, visit Macslist.org/book. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mar 2, 2016 • 35min

Ep. 024: How to Return to Work at Any Age (Kristin Schuchman)

Feb 24, 2016 • 34min

Ep. 023: How to Switch from a Corporate to Nonprofit Career (Marcia Ballinger)

More than 10 million Americans work for nonprofits today. Even the Great Recession couldn’t stop growth in this sector. According to the federal government, the number of nonprofit jobs increased by 18% between 2000 and 2010. And that trend shows no sign of slowing down in the near future. And while the demand for skilled nonprofit workers is huge, it’s often be difficult for established professionals to transition into this sector. It can be a challenge to frame skills developed in the profit world in a way that resonates with nonprofits. Plus, there’s a huge amount of diversity within the nonprofit space. This week on Find Your Dream Job, Mac talks with Marcia Ballinger, an executive recruiter for nonprofit organizations and co-author of The 20-Minute Networking Meeting. Marcia shares her tips for how professionals in the private sector can make the jump into a nonprofit career. She believes it’s all about fit; you need to find the type of nonprofit--and a role within that nonprofit--that aligns with your skills, passions, and professional narrative. In this 33-minute episode you will learn: Why so many people want a nonprofit career The multiple paths into the nonprofit sector How to find the best “nonprofit fit” for your professional background Why you need to get specific and focussed in your nonprofit job search How to manage salary and benefit expectations when you move into the nonprofit space The role of passion and values in a nonprofit career This week’s guest: Marcia Ballinger, Ph.D. (@marciaballinger | LinkedIn)Co-founder and Principal at Ballinger | Leafblad, Inc.Co-author, The 20-Minute Networking MeetingMinneapolis, Minn. Listener question of the week: I’m currently hunting for a job in the nonprofit space. I’ve recently saw an opening where the job duties perfectly align with my skills and professional interests; unfortunately I’m not really passionate about the organization’s mission. How should I address the “passion” issue during my interview? Answering our question this week is Aubrie De Clerck, principal at Portland-based Coaching for Clarity. If you have a question you’d like us to answer on a future episode, please contact us at communitymanager@macslist.org. Resources referenced on this week’s show: ASAE: The Center for Association Leadership Ballinger | Leafblad, Inc. The 20-Minute Networking Meeting Aubrie De Clerck - Coaching for Clarity Land Your Dream Job in Portland (and Beyond) - 2016 Edition If you have a job-hunting or career development resource resource you’d like to share, please contact Ben Forstag, Mac’s List Managing Director at ben@macslist.org. Thank you for listening to Find Your Dream Job. If you like this show, please help us by rating and reviewing our podcast on iTunes. We appreciate your support! Opening and closing music for Find Your Dream Job provided by Freddy Trujillo, www.freddytrujillo.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Find Your Dream Job: Insider Tips for Finding Work, Advancing your Career, and Loving Your Job

Episodes

Mentioned books

Ep. 029: Interview Secrets Every New Graduate Needs to Know (Don Raskin)

BONUS: Getting Ahead by Being Unprofessional (Brittany Bennett)

Ep. 028: How to Look for Work After Age 50 (Kerry Hannon)