After the JAG Corps: Navigating Your Career Progression

Beth Kubala retired from the U.S. Army JAG Corps in January 2015 after almost 22 years of service, becoming the Senior Director of Syracuse University's Institute for Veterans and Military Families.  In November 2019, she became the Executive Director and Teaching Professor at the Veterans Legal Clinic at the Syracuse University College of Law.  In this episode, Beth explains she took the a bus on the Greyhound on the Hudson River Line 'cause she's in a New York state of mind, where she is able to look after our veterans in her current role, her love of what she does, and that all one needs is a plan, but it need not be a well-developed plan.  As always, Beth's LinkedIn profile can be accessed by clicking here.  This conversation was recorded in May 2022. All you lawyers know this, but THE CONTENTS OF THIS PODCAST CONSTITUTE THE PERSONAL OPINIONS OF THE HOST AND GUESTS ACTING IN THEIR PERSONAL CAPACITIES. "AFTER THE JAG CORPS" IS NEITHER AFFILIATED WITH OR ENDORSED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF THE DEFENSE, THE RESPECTIVE BRANCHES OF THE ARMED SERVICES OR THEIR JUDGE ADVOCATES GENERAL.

If Jonathan Goldsmith was the most "The Most Interesting Man in the World" in those Dos Equis beer commercials, then CDR Scott Suozzi, USN,must be the World's Most Interesting Retired JAG.  After a short stint as a civilian mariner on a oil tanker at the age of 16, Scott went onto graduate from the U.S. Naval Academy, become and deploy as a Surface Warfare Officer, teach at the Naval Academy, and then transition to the Navy JAG Corp's where he served in a number of diverse roles around the world, including in Europe, the Middle East and the Caribbean and South America.  His post-Navy life has been just as adventurous: taking two extended road trips of the United States, serving as chief of staff at a renown institution of higher education, and working with a number of non-profit organizations, including his current role supporting a nationally-known organization that supports the military and first responders.  On May 6, 2022, Scott and I talked about his incredible military career and just as equally impressive (and diverse) post-military career, highlighting the tremendous diversity of experience that our service provides as well all of the amazing opportunities that are out there after one leaves the military.  Scott also talks about the value of taking time to reflect and recharge one's batteries after extended military service and offers some important thoughts for those who are contemplating leaving military service.  Give it a listen! Scott's LinkedIn profile is available by clicking HERE. THE CONTENTS OF THIS PODCAST CONSTITUTE THE PERSONAL OPINIONS OF THE HOST AND GUESTS ACTING IN THEIR PERSONAL CAPACITIES. "AFTER THE JAG CORPS" IS NEITHER AFFILIATED OR ENDORSED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF THE DEFENSE, THE RESPECTIVE BRANCHES OF THE ARMED SERVICES OR THEIR JUDGE ADVOCATES GENERAL.

Joe Moyer packed a lot into just four years on active duty in the US Navy JAGC Corps, serving as an in-house counsel, appellate counsel, and a year in Afghanistan, where he really got his first consulting experience working as an advisor to Afghan government officials and lawyers on rule of law issues.  He also met and worked with some individuals who would become of his network and who have helped in his post-Navy career progression.  In this episode, Joe tells us about his journey from the JAGC Corps into the world of consulting and compliance, including his current job advising companies on CFIUS (The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States) requirements.  If you are interested in consulting work after leaving the military, then this episode is for you.  Joe's LinkedIn profile can be found here.   This conversation was recorded May 6, 2022. THE CONTENTS OF THIS PODCAST CONSTITUTE THE PERSONAL OPINIONS OF THE HOST AND GUESTS ACTING IN THEIR PERSONAL CAPACITIES. "AFTER THE JAG CORPS" IS NEITHER AFFILIATED OR ENDORSED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF THE DEFENSE, THE RESPECTIVE BRANCHES OF THE ARMED SERVICES OR THEIR JUDGE ADVOCATES GENERAL.

It purely a coincidence that my conversation with COL Walt Foster, USAR, is being released the same week that "Top Gun: Maverick" is released.  The connection is that Walt initially entered military service in 1987 to become a naval aviator, thereby giving credence to the scenario in which Maverick could possibly still be serving over 30 years later. There are differences however as Maverick was already a lieutenant in 1986 while Walt entered as an ensign that year.  Additionally, Walt left the service to attend law school and eventually joined the Army Reserves, where he had a number of mobilizations, especially since the attacks on 9/11 and is essentially leaving the service like his active-duty colleagues. I had never met Walt before we sat down for our conversation on April 29, 2022, but typical of many of our experiences in the military, the commonality of service was enough to provide a foundation to have the dialogue which you are about to hear.  In this episode, Walt talks about his career progression journey, including resumes, Hiring our Heroes (www.hiringourheroes.org) and Veteran (www.veterati.com), and interviewing.   Walt is set to start his post-military law practice on Tuesday, May 31, 2022.  I am aware, however, that Walt did attend a recent cohort hosted by Blue Water Advisors, and is willing to share his perspective on the value of BWA, HOH and Veterati.  You can contact Walt through LinkedIn; his profile can be accessed here.

Dan Saumur and I first met as O-4s at the DFAC at Camp Victory, Iraq.  We then had the opportunity to work together again when he was the SJA for U.S. Army South and I was the SJA at JTF-GTMO.  Dan became a very frequent contributor on transition-related matters on LinkedIn as he approached his own retirement and his transition to a post-military career.  In this episode, Dan talks about his priorities when it came to a follow-on career with location, in this instance San Antonio, being the primary factor in that process.  Now working for the Veterans Administration, Dan talks about the fulfillment he derives from continuing to support veterans in his new capacity and shares his thoughts how his use of LinkedIn helped with making introductions and provided him an opportunity to engage with and learn from others.   Dan's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielsaumur/ (which can be accessed by clicking on the URL). This episode was recorded on April 28, 2022.

Following his retirement from the Navy JAG Corps, Steve Epstein went on to work in ethics for the Navy Office of General Counsel and the Department of Defense Office of General Counsel where he served as the director of its Standard of Conduct Office, before going to work for Price Waterhouse Coopers and Boeing.  I sat down with Steve to talk all things ethics and compliance, a must for anyone thinking of entering the compliance world upon leaving the JAG Corps. Please note, that the audio drops off around the 18:05 mark for about 2 seconds.  (Not my best edits, but I was pressed for time as I head out of town and the country for a few days.)

In this episode, we learn about Mark Nevitt's incredible journey from entering the Navy as a line officer flying the venerable S-3 Viking from the USS CONSTELLATION (CV-64) to serving in the Navy JAGC and now as a law school professor following his retirement in 2017 after a 20-year career.  Mark provides some great insight into the different paths to becoming a tenured law school professor, including the narrow path available for JAGs desiring to enter academia, the importance of scholarly writing, the willingness to teach different areas of the law, and how other former JAGs-turned-law-professors helped him.  A must listen for anyone thinking of becoming a law school professor. Mark is currently an Associate Professor of Law at the Syracuse University College of Law, but will join the Emory University College of Law on June 1st.  A prolific writer, Mark has had several articles published in several law reviews, and has been a frequent contributor to NYU's Just Security blog and Penn Law's Regulatory Review.  Mark's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/marknevitt/.  This conversation was recorded April 22, 2022.

John and I served together at Naval Legal Service Office, Mid-Atlantic in the mid-1990s.  A surface warfare officer who transitioned to the JAG Corps via the Legal Education Program, he quickly established himself as a skilled litigator, both as a prosecutor and defense counsel.  Given his great credentials, a line officer, his courtroom skills and because his father had been a career judge advocate, many of us thought John would remain on active duty for a long time.  However, Joh ended up transitioning to the Naval Reserves.  Leveraging his vast military courts-martial litigation experience, John joined a firm in Northern Virginia, where he continued his career in the courtroom. John’s firm was retained to represent a company who saw several of its executives indicted, which eventually hired him as a litigation attorney and where eventually became its corporate secretary and general counsel.  John's career is about seizing the day and taking advantage of opportunities as they arise.    John’s LinkedIn profile can be accessed by clicking here. A few notes: 1.  User error during the edit process required a Mulligan, forcing a re-start of the entire process.  This is the reason for the late release. 2.  You may note a few slight audio issues.  I had intended to work on those, but #1 caused me to put it out as is. This interview was conducted April 18, 2022.

On February 24, 2022, I had the opportunity of talking to Captain Stu Belt, JAGC, U.S. Navy (Retired), who continues to support and serve the men and women in the Navy as an attorney with the Navy Office of General Counsel (OGC) after a 24 years as a judge advocate.  Stu takes us through his decision to retire, how assisting Military Sealift command with some international law issues while on active duty provided him with unique insight into the issues with which they were dealing with an OGC position came available in Bahrain, and the immense satisfaction he derives from his continued service in the Navy.  For more information about Stu, visit his LinkedIn Profile page, which is available here.

In February, I had a chance to sit down with Colonel Ian Brasure, USMC (Retired), who, after a 30-year military career went onto work with the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) before taking a job with the Department of Homeland Security.  Our conversation covered his desire to do something different and meaningful and what led him to return to Government Service and why he continues to serve.  Ian also discussed USAJobs, onboarding when a security clearance has lapsed, the importance of relationships, and cautioned about allowing oneself to become "freeze-dried" as of the date of separation or retirement. Ian is an invaluable resource if you are interested in working for the U.S. Government.  He is always willing to talk to separating and retiring judge advocates.  To learn more or to get in touch with Ian, please see his LinkedIn profile, available here. (I am always looking for new guests.  If interested, please e-mail me at aftethejagc@gmail.com.)