After the JAG Corps: Navigating Your Career Progression

It purely a coincidence that my conversation with COL Walt Foster, USAR, is being released the same week that "Top Gun: Maverick" is released.  The connection is that Walt initially entered military service in 1987 to become a naval aviator, thereby giving credence to the scenario in which Maverick could possibly still be serving over 30 years later. There are differences however as Maverick was already a lieutenant in 1986 while Walt entered as an ensign that year.  Additionally, Walt left the service to attend law school and eventually joined the Army Reserves, where he had a number of mobilizations, especially since the attacks on 9/11 and is essentially leaving the service like his active-duty colleagues. I had never met Walt before we sat down for our conversation on April 29, 2022, but typical of many of our experiences in the military, the commonality of service was enough to provide a foundation to have the dialogue which you are about to hear.  In this episode, Walt talks about his career progression journey, including resumes, Hiring our Heroes (www.hiringourheroes.org) and Veteran (www.veterati.com), and interviewing.   Walt is set to start his post-military law practice on Tuesday, May 31, 2022.  I am aware, however, that Walt did attend a recent cohort hosted by Blue Water Advisors, and is willing to share his perspective on the value of BWA, HOH and Veterati.  You can contact Walt through LinkedIn; his profile can be accessed here.

Dan Saumur and I first met as O-4s at the DFAC at Camp Victory, Iraq.  We then had the opportunity to work together again when he was the SJA for U.S. Army South and I was the SJA at JTF-GTMO.  Dan became a very frequent contributor on transition-related matters on LinkedIn as he approached his own retirement and his transition to a post-military career.  In this episode, Dan talks about his priorities when it came to a follow-on career with location, in this instance San Antonio, being the primary factor in that process.  Now working for the Veterans Administration, Dan talks about the fulfillment he derives from continuing to support veterans in his new capacity and shares his thoughts how his use of LinkedIn helped with making introductions and provided him an opportunity to engage with and learn from others.   Dan's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielsaumur/ (which can be accessed by clicking on the URL). This episode was recorded on April 28, 2022.

Following his retirement from the Navy JAG Corps, Steve Epstein went on to work in ethics for the Navy Office of General Counsel and the Department of Defense Office of General Counsel where he served as the director of its Standard of Conduct Office, before going to work for Price Waterhouse Coopers and Boeing.  I sat down with Steve to talk all things ethics and compliance, a must for anyone thinking of entering the compliance world upon leaving the JAG Corps. Please note, that the audio drops off around the 18:05 mark for about 2 seconds.  (Not my best edits, but I was pressed for time as I head out of town and the country for a few days.)

In this episode, we learn about Mark Nevitt's incredible journey from entering the Navy as a line officer flying the venerable S-3 Viking from the USS CONSTELLATION (CV-64) to serving in the Navy JAGC and now as a law school professor following his retirement in 2017 after a 20-year career.  Mark provides some great insight into the different paths to becoming a tenured law school professor, including the narrow path available for JAGs desiring to enter academia, the importance of scholarly writing, the willingness to teach different areas of the law, and how other former JAGs-turned-law-professors helped him.  A must listen for anyone thinking of becoming a law school professor. Mark is currently an Associate Professor of Law at the Syracuse University College of Law, but will join the Emory University College of Law on June 1st.  A prolific writer, Mark has had several articles published in several law reviews, and has been a frequent contributor to NYU's Just Security blog and Penn Law's Regulatory Review.  Mark's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/marknevitt/.  This conversation was recorded April 22, 2022.

John and I served together at Naval Legal Service Office, Mid-Atlantic in the mid-1990s.  A surface warfare officer who transitioned to the JAG Corps via the Legal Education Program, he quickly established himself as a skilled litigator, both as a prosecutor and defense counsel.  Given his great credentials, a line officer, his courtroom skills and because his father had been a career judge advocate, many of us thought John would remain on active duty for a long time.  However, Joh ended up transitioning to the Naval Reserves.  Leveraging his vast military courts-martial litigation experience, John joined a firm in Northern Virginia, where he continued his career in the courtroom. John’s firm was retained to represent a company who saw several of its executives indicted, which eventually hired him as a litigation attorney and where eventually became its corporate secretary and general counsel.  John's career is about seizing the day and taking advantage of opportunities as they arise.    John’s LinkedIn profile can be accessed by clicking here. A few notes: 1.  User error during the edit process required a Mulligan, forcing a re-start of the entire process.  This is the reason for the late release. 2.  You may note a few slight audio issues.  I had intended to work on those, but #1 caused me to put it out as is. This interview was conducted April 18, 2022.

On February 24, 2022, I had the opportunity of talking to Captain Stu Belt, JAGC, U.S. Navy (Retired), who continues to support and serve the men and women in the Navy as an attorney with the Navy Office of General Counsel (OGC) after a 24 years as a judge advocate.  Stu takes us through his decision to retire, how assisting Military Sealift command with some international law issues while on active duty provided him with unique insight into the issues with which they were dealing with an OGC position came available in Bahrain, and the immense satisfaction he derives from his continued service in the Navy.  For more information about Stu, visit his LinkedIn Profile page, which is available here.

In February, I had a chance to sit down with Colonel Ian Brasure, USMC (Retired), who, after a 30-year military career went onto work with the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) before taking a job with the Department of Homeland Security.  Our conversation covered his desire to do something different and meaningful and what led him to return to Government Service and why he continues to serve.  Ian also discussed USAJobs, onboarding when a security clearance has lapsed, the importance of relationships, and cautioned about allowing oneself to become "freeze-dried" as of the date of separation or retirement. Ian is an invaluable resource if you are interested in working for the U.S. Government.  He is always willing to talk to separating and retiring judge advocates.  To learn more or to get in touch with Ian, please see his LinkedIn profile, available here. (I am always looking for new guests.  If interested, please e-mail me at aftethejagc@gmail.com.)

In this podcast, we hear from Captain William "Bill" Toti, who served in the Navy for 25 years, including as a CO of a nuclear fast-attack submarine, and in other command positions before moving on to serve in various leadership positions within industry, including as CEO.  Over the course of his career in industry, Bill kept notes on things that were either not taught or taught correctly during the transition courses, and his observations of common mistakes made by military personnel trying to transition into industry positions after leaving the service.  The result was a book, From CO to CEO: A Practical Guide from Transitioning from Military to Industry Leadership, which was just released on April 5, 2022.  Captain Toti's online presence includes his LinkedIn profile and his web site.

As the title states this is part two of our conversation.  A huge thanks to BGen Baker, who was recently sworn in as the Federal Public Defender for the Western District of North Carolina and Butch Bracknell, who retired from the Marine Corps in 2014.

Proving once again that timing is everything in life, the launch of "After the JAG Corps" occurred just as BGen Baker was retiring from the Marine Corps.  Seeing a comment about the podcast on LinkedIn, General Baker and LtCol Bracknell volunteered to sit down for a virtual conversation about their recent and not-so-recent experiences, offer insights, and "play it forward" to future retiring and separating judge advocates.  The result was a free-flowing conversation that lasted about one hour.  Accordingly, this podcast is being released in two parts with the second half of this conversation being released next week (4/2/2022).  BGen Baker's LinkedIn profile can be accessed here while Butch Bracknell's profile can be found here. This conversation was recorded February 11, 2022.