The Theology Mill

The Bulgakov Booth is a four-part series of interviews on the Russian priest and theologian, Sergius Bulgakov (1871–1944). The interviews here will explore the many intellectual twists and turns in Bulgakov's biography as well as some key themes in his writings. Roberto J. De La Noval is Assistant Professor of Theology at Mount Saint Mary’s University (Emmitsburg, MD). A systematic and historical theologian, his work covers figures such as Sergius Bulgakov and Bernard Lonergan, with a focus on Christian eschatology. He is also a translator of Russian religious thought. His most recent publications are Sergius Bulgakov, The Sophiology of Death (Cascade Books, 2021) and Sergius Bulgakov, Spiritual Diary (Angelico Press, 2022, with Mark Roosien). Fr. Mark Roosien is the pastor of Holy Ghost Orthodox Church in Bridgeport, CT, and Lecturer in Liturgical Studies at Yale Divinity School and the Yale Institute of Sacred Music. He is a scholar and translator of Eastern Christian theology and liturgy. In addition to his translations of two books by Sergius Bulgakov—The Eucharistic Sacrifice (University of Notre Dame Press, 2021) and Spiritual Diary (Angelico Press, 2022, with Roberto De La Noval)—his monograph on liturgical and theological responses to natural disaster in Byzantium is forthcoming with Cambridge University Press.  PODCAST LINKS: Spiritual Diary: https://angelicopress.com/products/spiritual-diary?_pos=1&_sid=c7ba52dd8&_ss=r The Sophiology of Death: https://wipfandstock.com/9781532699658/the-sophiology-of-death/ The Eucharistic Sacrifice: https://undpress.nd.edu/9780268201418/the-eucharistic-sacrifice/ Rob's Twitter: https://twitter.com/roberto_noval?lang=en Rob's academia.edu page: https://nd.academia.edu/RobertoDeLaNoval Fr. Mark's academia.edu page: https://yale.academia.edu/MarkRoosien Hermitix podcast: https://hermitix.net/Home   CONNECT: Website: https://wipfandstock.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/wipfandstock Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wipfandstock Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wipfandstock/ Hermitix podcast: https://hermitix.net/Home SOURCES MENTIONED: Bulgakov, Sergius. The Bride of the Lamb. ———. The Comforter. ———. The Eucharistic Sacrifice. ———. The Lamb of God. ———. Relices and Miracles: Two Theological Essays. ———. Sergii Bulgakov: Towards a Russian Political Theology (edited by Rowan Williams). ———. The Sophiology of Death: Essays on Eschatology: Personal, Political, Universal. ———. Spiritual Diary. Florensky, Pavel. The Pillar and Ground of the Truth: An Essay in Orthodox Theodicy in Twelve Letters. Marion, Jean-Luc. In Excess: Studies of Saturated Phenomena. Solovyov, Vladimir. Lectures on Divine Humanity. OUTLINE: (02:14) – Drip coffee, ice water, and orange salt electrolyte water (07:15) – Rob’s roundtable: Bulgakov, Teilhard de Chardin, Balthasar, Simone Weil (11:42) – Fr. Mark’s roundtable: Bulgakov, Balthasar, Ernst Bloch, Augustine (15:45) – Biography: son of a priest –> Marxist economist –> theologian and priest (27:35) – Personalism, the hyper-real, and Sophia (34:10) – The Bulgakov of Spiritual Diary (42:23) – Bulgakov the friend (of Florensky and Sr. Reitlinger) (52:29) – The story behind The Sophiology of Death (01:01:44) – Bulgakov’s theology of death (01:11:44) – The Trinity and the eucharistic sacrifice (01:23:07) – Final thoughts

The Bulgakov Booth is a four-part series of interviews on the Russian priest and theologian, Sergius Bulgakov (1871–1944). The interviews here will explore the many intellectual twists and turns in Bulgakov's biography as well as some key themes in his writings. Sarah Livick-Moses is currently writing a dissertation at Boston College on the doctrines of Trinity and creation in Sergii Bulgakov's major theological writings. She is a Managing Editor at the Journal of Religion and the Arts, serves on the Steering Committee for the Eastern Orthodox Studies Unit at the American Academy of Religion, and is a Graduate Fellow with the NU Research Initiative for the Study of Russian Philosophy and Religious Thought. PODCAST LINKS: Sarah’s academia.edu page: https://bc.academia.edu/SarahLivickMoses Genealogies of Modernity: https://genealogiesofmodernity.org/   CONNECT: Website: https://wipfandstock.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/wipfandstock Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wipfandstock Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wipfandstock/ SOURCES MENTIONED: Bulgakov, Sergius. The Bride of the Lamb. ———. The Comforter. ———. The Lamb of God. ———. Sophia: The Wisdom of God: An Outline of Sophiology. ———. The Sophiology of Death: Essays on Eschatology: Personal, Political, Universal. ———. Unfading Light: Contemplations and Speculations. Livick-Moses, Sarah. “Eschatological Resurrection and Historical Liberation.” Meerson, Michael A. The Trinity of Love in Modern Russian Theology. Newsome Martin, Jennifer. Hans Urs von Balthasar and the Critical Appropriation of Russian Religious Thought. ———. “The ‘Whence’ and the ‘Whither’ of Balthasar’s Gendered Theology: Rehabilitating Kenosis for Feminist Theology.” Skobtsova, Mother Maria. Essential Writings. OUTLINE: (02:03) – Roundtable: Mechthild of Magdeburg, Hadewijch of Antwerp, Meister Eckhart (05:30) – Major themes: divine-humanity, eschatology, iconography, Sophia (08:02) – Bulgakovian (and Russian) Sophiology (15:35) – Countering (completing?) German Idealism (18:18) – Friends and influences: Florensky, Berdyaev (19:43) – Bulgakov’s (and Maria Skobtsova’s) “eschatological politicism” (24:57) – The two poles of eschatological politicism (26:35) – Spiritual participation in political systems (30:43) – A Bulgakovian assessment of Patriarch Kirill (34:25) – Bulgakov’s ecclesial and political milieu (36:48) – Sophia in the church-world relation (39:47) – Gender difference in Bulgakov’s theology (45:45) – Bulgakov’s iconology in feminist perspective (50:46) – What’s next for Sarah and where to find her

The Bulgakov Booth is a four-part series of interviews on the Russian priest and theologian, Sergius Bulgakov (1871–1944). The interviews here will explore the many intellectual twists and turns in Bulgakov's biography as well as some key themes in his writings. Jordan Daniel Wood earned his PhD in theology from Boston College in 2019 and published a book with University of Notre Dame Press entitled The Whole Mystery of Christ: Creation as Incarnation in Maximus Confessor (2022). He is also a stay-at-home father of four girls. PODCAST LINKS: Jordan’s academia.edu page: https://bc.academia.edu/JordanWood Jordan’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/JordanW41069857 CONNECT: Website: https://wipfandstock.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/wipfandstock Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wipfandstock Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wipfandstock/ SOURCES MENTIONED: Bulgakov, Sergius. The Bride of the Lamb. ———. The Lamb of God. ———. Sergii Bulgakov: Towards a Russian Political Theology. ———. The Sophiology of Death: Essays on Eschatology: Personal, Political, Universal. ———. The Tragedy of Philosophy (Philosophy and Dogma). Daley, Brian E., SJ. God Visible: Patristic Christology Reconsidered. Dei Verbum: Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation. de Lubac, Henri. The Religion of Teilhard de Chardin. John Paul II, Pope. Fides et ratio. Kant, Immanuel. Critique of Judgment. ———. Critique of Practical Reason. ———. Critique of Pure Reason. Kaplan, Grant. Faith and Reason through Christian History: A Theological Essay. Marcel, Gabriel. Creative Fidelity. Plato. Parmenides. Rahner, Karl. Faith in a Wintry Season: Conversations and Interviews with Karl Rahner in the Last Years of His Life.  ———. The Trinity. Slesinski, Robert F. The Theology of Sergius Bulgakov. Unitatis Redintegratio: Decree on Ecumenism. von Balthasar, Hans Urs. Dare We Hope That All Men Be Saved?: with “A Short Discourse on Hell.” ———. The Theology of Karl Barth. Wood, Jordan Daniel. “The Lively God of Sergius Bulgakov: Reflections on The Sophiology of Death.” OUTLINE: NEED TO ADJUST TIME STAMPS AFTER INTRO IS RECORDED (00:00) – Maximus Confessor, Friedrich Schelling, Sergius Bulgakov (06:31) – Roundtable: Bulgakov, Augustine, Aquinas, Hegel (10:56) – Incarnation as repair vs. Incarnation as disclosure (21:24) – Bulgakov: alive to God, alive to the world (30:00) – Key themes: antinomy and synthesis (37:50) – What the Western traditions can learn from Bulgakov (44:00) – The particularization of the universal (49:15) – Creative distance (from Europe) and creative fidelity (to the church) (57:30) – Bulgakov’s ecumenism (01:00:13) – The Sophiology of Death (01:06:42) – Two approaches to Sophia (01:20:36) – The One and the Many (01:31:09) – The influence of German Idealism (01:33:48) – Bulgakov and universalism

Regula M. Zwahlen, from the Sergiy Bulgakov Research Center, discusses Bulgakov's intersections with Kant, Arndt, and Bonhoeffer, his views on human dignity and national feeling, and the church's role in empowering individuals. Exploring elements of philosophy, economics, and social justice in relation to Bulgakov's work.

Michael Morelli, an assistant professor of theology, culture, and ethics, discusses his book containing an English translation of an essay by Jacques Ellul, with engagements by leading Ellul scholars. They discuss Ellul's engagement with influential thinkers, his perception as a sociologist and historian, and the impact of historical events on his work. They delve into the concept of the apocalyptic and explore Lule's cinema club archives analyzing genre-defining films.

David Artman is the author of Grace Saves All: The Necessity of Christian Universalism (Wipf & Stock, 2020) and the host of the Grace Saves All podcast. In this second part of my conversation with David, he and I continue our conversation on Christian universalism, address some of the main critiques of this position, and discuss his book and podcast. PODCAST LINKS: David’s book: https://wipfandstock.com/9781532650888/grace-saves-all/ Grace Saves All podcast: https://www.davidartman.net/podcast David’s website: https://www.davidartman.net/ David’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/davidartman?lang=en   CONNECT: Website: https://wipfandstock.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/wipfandstock Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wipfandstock Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wipfandstock/   SOURCES MENTIONED: Artman, David. Grace Saves All: The Necessity of Christian Universalism. Hart, David Bentley. The New Testament: A Translation. ———. That All Shall Be Saved: Heaven, Hell, and Universal Salvation. Jersak, Bradley. Her Gates Will Never Be Shut: Hope, Hell, and the New Jerusalem. MacDonald, Gregory (Robin Parry). The Evangelical Universalist. Parry, Robin A., with Ilaria L. E. Ramelli. A Larger Hope?, Volume 2: Universal Salvation from the Reformation to the Nineteenth Century. Ramelli, Ilaria L. E. A Larger Hope?, Volume 1: Universal Salvation from Christian Beginnings to Julian of Norwich. Sarris, George W. Heaven’s Doors: Wider Than You Ever Believed! Yancey, Philip. Vanishing Grace: Bringing Good News to a Deeply Divided World. Zahnd, Brian. Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God: The Scandalous Truth of the Very Good News.   OUTLINE: (00:14) – The ultimate question of God’s goodness (02:48) – Scriptures for and (apparently) against (13:45) – “Weeping and gnashing of teeth” (22:08) – Resources on Christian universalism (24:38) – Universalism, evangelism, and morality (35:15) – Free will and freedom (43:31) – Universalism in the early church (51:44) – The traumatic impact of infernalist theology (01:02:23) – David’s book, Grace Saves All (01:15:49) – What’s next for David (01:19:23) – Where to find David

David Artman is the author of Grace Saves All: The Necessity of Christian Universalism (Wipf & Stock, 2020) and the host of the Grace Saves All podcast. On this first of two episodes with David, he and I begin a conversation on the topic of Christian universalism, a conversation which we will continue in a subsequent episode to be released in a couple of weeks. Here we discuss his own journey to Christian universalism, some of the major historic and contemporary figures within this stream of thinking, and clear up some of the common misperceptions and critiques. PODCAST LINKS: David’s book: https://wipfandstock.com/9781532650888/grace-saves-all/ Grace Saves All podcast: https://www.davidartman.net/podcast David’s website: https://www.davidartman.net/ David’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/davidartman?lang=en   CONNECT: Website: https://wipfandstock.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/wipfandstock Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wipfandstock Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wipfandstock/   SOURCES MENTIONED: Artman, David. Grace Saves All: The Necessity of Christian Universalism. Hart, David Bentley. That All Shall Be Saved: Heaven, Hell, and Universal Salvation. Hronich, Andrew. Once Loved Always Loved: The Logic of Apokatastasis. Jersak, Bradley. Her Gates Will Never Be Shut: Hell, Hope, and the New Jerusalem. MacDonald, Gregory (Robin Parry). The Evangelical Universalist. Parry, Robin, with Ilaria Ramelli. A Larger Hope?, Volume 2: Universal Salvation from the Reformation to the Nineteenth Century. Ramelli, Ilaria. A Larger Hope?, Volume 1: Universal Salvation from Christian Beginnings to Julian of Norwich. Talbott, Thomas. The Inescapable Love of God. Wood, Jordan Daniel. The Whole Mystery of Christ: Creation as Incarnation in Maximus Confessor.   OUTLINE: (00:14) – Microphones and Monty Python (05:05) – Podcasting and publishing on universalism (08:30) – Private journals: Karl Barth, Jürgen Moltmann, Hans Urs von Balthasar, C. S. Lewis (12:35) – White Russian, English Breakfast-Cocoa elixir (17:26) – From evangelical fundamentalism to Brite Divinity School (22:50) – Discovering Christian universalism (28:20) – Universalism and holding on to faith (30:35) – The logic and history of Christian universalism (35:03) – Historic figures: Gregory of Nyssa, Origen of Alexandria, Maximus Confessor (40:31) – Universalism and (Nicene) orthodoxy (48:48) – Contemporary figures: David Bentley Hart, Thomas Talbott, Ilaria Ramelli, Robin Parry (54:45) – What are the alternatives? (58:49) – Facing the critiques of Christian universalism (01:07:53) – To be continued . . .

The Apocalyptic Paul Booth is a series of episodes dedicated to apocalyptic readings of the apostle Paul’s letters. Interviews situate Pauline apocalyptic—a stream of similar interpretations of Paul's writings originating in the work of exegetes like Rudolf Bultmann and Ernst Käsemann—among other interpretations (the Old and New Paul readings, for instance) as well as among Second Temple Jewish apocalyptic literature. On this episode, I talk with Dr. Susan Grove Eastman, Associate Research Professor Emeritus of New Testament at Duke Divinity School, as well as an Episcopal priest with two decades of pastoral experience. Dr. Eastman is the author of numerous books on Paul, most recently including Recovering Paul's Mother Tongue: Language and Theology in Galatians (2nd ed., Cascade, 2022), (forthcoming, Cascade, 2023), and the forthcoming Interpretation commentary on Romans. CONNECT: Website: https://wipfandstock.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/wipfandstock Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wipfandstock Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wipfandstock/ PODCAST LINKS: Water Ave. Coffee (Portland, OR): ⁠https://wateravenuecoffee.com/⁠ SOURCES MENTIONED: Davies, Jamie. The Apocalyptic Paul: Retrospect and Prospect. Davis, Joshua B., and Douglas Harink. Apocalyptic and the Future of Theology: With and Beyond J. Louis Martyn. De Boer, Martinus. Paul, Theologian of God’s Apocalypse: Essays on Paul and Apocalyptic. Grove Eastman, Susan. Paul and the Person: Reframing Paul’s Anthropology. ———. Recovering Paul’s Mother Tongue: Language and Theology in Galatians. 2nd ed. Jervis, L. Ann. Paul and Time: Life in the Temporality of Christ. Linebaugh, Jonathan A. The Word of the Cross: Reading Paul. Martyn, J. Louis. Galatians. OUTLINE: (02:18) – Ethiopian coffee, Keurig coffee (03:45) – Three ways of construing the Apocalyptic Paul (07:54) – Cosmological scope (09:36) – Pauline apocalyptic and other biblical apocalyptic (12:18) – Major historic figures: Kasemann, Barth, Martyn, Beker (15:25) – The influence of Lou (and Dorothy) Martyn and Käsemann (18:13) – Zooming out from the individual to the cosmological (22:21) – Pauline apocalyptic’s blind spots: dichotomous thinking (28:37) – Paul and human transformation (33:12) – Paul and the life of the church (39:20) – “Invasion” vs. “incarnation” (43:39) – Contemporary figures: Davies, Jervis, Bowens, Harink (46:31) – Where to start (49:39) – Recovering Paul’s Mother Tongue, 2nd ed. (54:18) – Forthcoming: Oneself in Another

The Apocalyptic Paul Booth is a series of episodes dedicated to apocalyptic readings of the apostle Paul’s letters. Interviews situate Pauline apocalyptic—a stream of similar interpretations of Paul's writings originating in the work of exegetes like Rudolf Bultmann and Ernst Käsemann—among other interpretations (the Old and New Paul readings, for instance) as well as among Second Temple Jewish apocalyptic literature. Here we interview Douglas Harink, Professor Emeritus of Theology at The King’s University in Edmonton, Alberta, whose main areas of interest are in Pauline studies and contemporary theology. His publications include Paul among the Postliberals: Pauline Theology beyond Christendom and Modernity (Wipf & Stock, 2013) and the edited volumes, Paul, Philosophy, and the Theolopolitical Vision: Critical Engagements with Agamben, Badiou, Zizek, and Others (Cascade, 2010) and (with Joshua Davis) Apocalyptic and the Future of Theology: With and Beyond J. Louis Martyn (Cascade, 2012). PODCAST LINKS: Dr. Harink’s website: https://douglasharink.ca/ Dr. Harink’s author page: https://wipfandstock.com/author/douglas-harink/    CONNECT: Website: https://wipfandstock.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/wipfandstock Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wipfandstock Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wipfandstock/   SOURCES MENTIONED: Agamben, Giorgio. The Time That Remains: A Commentary on the Letter to the Romans. Badiou, Alain. Saint Paul: The Foundation of Universalism. Barclay, John M. G. Paul and the Gift. Barth, Karl. Church Dogmatics. 14 vols. ———. The Epistle to the Romans. Beker, J. Christiaan. The Triumph of God: The Essence of Paul’s Thought. Bowens, Lisa M. African American Readings of Paul: Reception, Resistance, and Transformation. Davies, Jamie. The Apocalyptic Paul: Retrospect and Prospect. Davis, Joshua B., and Douglas Harink. Apocalyptic and the Future of Theology: With and Beyond J. Louis Martyn. De Boer, Martinus C. Galatians. Eastman, Susan Grove. Paul and the Person: Reframing Paul’s Anthropology. Harink, Douglas. Paul among the Postliberals: Pauline Theology Beyond Christendom and Modernity. ———. Resurrecting Justice: Reading Romans for the Life of the World. ———, ed. Paul, Philosophy, and the Theopolitical Vision: Critical Engagements with Agamben, Badiou, Žižek, and Others. Jervis, L. Ann. Paul and Time: Life in the Temporality of Christ. Martyn, J. Louis. Galatians. McKnight, Scot, et al., eds. Dictionary of Paul and His Letters: A Compendium of Contemporary Biblical Scholarship. Przywara, Erich. Analogia Entis: Metaphysics: Original Structure and Universal Rhythm. Sonderegger, Katherine. Systematic Theology. 2 vols.   OUTLINE: (02:18) – Starbucks coffee and (much better) craft coffee (05:20) – Apocalyptic Paul in a nutshell: Who rules the world? (08:32) – Tracking Pauline studies as a systematic theologian (by training) (09:46) – Why an apocalyptic reading of Paul? (14:40) – “Reveal/revelation” vs. “apocalypse” (18:53) – Major historic figures: Schweitzer, Bultmann, Käsemann, Beker, Martyn (26:28) – Pulling Pauline apocalyptic into theological territory (30:48) – . . . and on into philosophical territory: Badiou, Agamben, Žižek (36:42) – Kierkegaard: the radical claim God makes on our lives (38:47) – Catholic/Orthodox apocalyptic: O’Regan, Betz, Hart (45:36) – Reconciling Pauline apocalyptic and Paul within Judaism (49:45) – Barth and apocalyptic theology (50:58) – Bible commentaries written in an apocalyptic/theological mode (57:45) – Pauline apocalyptic’s critique of salvation history (01:03:35) – Contemporary figures: Gaventa, Eastman, Barclay, de Boer, Brown, Bowens, Jervis, Davies (01:08:31) – Where to learn more about Harink’s work

The Apocalyptic Paul Booth is a series of episodes dedicated to apocalyptic readings of the apostle Paul’s letters. Interviews situate Pauline apocalyptic—a stream of similar interpretations of Paul's writings originating in the work of exegetes like Rudolf Bultmann and Ernst Käsemann—among other interpretations (the Old and New Paul readings, for instance) as well as among Second Temple Jewish apocalyptic literature. Here we interview Jamie Davies (PhD, St Andrews), Tutor of New Testament and Director of Research at Trinity College, Bristol (UK). His research largely concerns apocalyptic thought in the New Testament and other Second Temple Jewish and Christian literature, with a particular focus on the letters and theology of Paul. He is the author of Paul Among the Apocalypses (T&T Clark, 2016), The Apocalyptic Paul: Retrospect and Prospect (Cascade, 2022), and Reading Revelation: A Literary and Theological Commentary (Smyth & Helwys, in press 2023). COUPON CODE: *Use code “DAVIES23” for 40% off* Dr. Davies’ book, The Apocalyptic Paul. (Good through 6/6/2023.)   PODCAST LINKS: Dr. Davies’ Twitter: https://twitter.com/JamiePDavies Dr. Davies’ academia.edu page: https://trinitycollegebristol.academia.edu/JamieDavies CONNECT: Website: https://wipfandstock.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/wipfandstock Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wipfandstock Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wipfandstock/   SOURCES MENTIONED: Blackwell, Ben C. Paul and the Apocalyptic Imagination. Bowens, Lisa M. African American Readings of Paul: Reception, Resistance, and Transformation. Davies, Jamie. The Apocalyptic Paul: Retrospect and Prospect. ———. Paul Among the Apocalypses?: An Evaluation of the ‘Apocalyptic Paul’ in the Context of Jewish and Christian Apocalyptic Literature. Eastman, Susan Grove. Paul and the Person: Reframing Paul's Anthropology. Gaventa, Beverly Roberts. Apocalyptic Paul: Cosmos and Anthropos in Romans 5–8. Hart, David Bentley. Tradition and Apocalypse: An Essay on the Future of Christian Belief. Käsemann, Ernst. The Testament of Jesus: A Study of the Gospel of John in the Light of Chapter 17. Martyn, J. Louis. The Gospel of John in Christian History: Seven Glimpses into the Johannine Community. ———. History and Theology in the Fourth Gospel. O’Regan, Cyril. “Two Forms of Catholic Apocalyptic Theology.”   OUTLINE: (02:14) – Ethiopian coffee, evening tea (03:40) – Defining “apocalyptic” (06:24) – Apocalyptic vis-à-vis other perspectives on Paul (09:39) – Old and New Perspectives (11:23) – Where to start (13:59) – “An accidental Paul scholar” (15:59) – Paul among other biblical apocalyptic (18:59) – Desert island: Barth, Kasemann, Gaventa (20:49) – Pauline apocalyptic after Kasemann and Martyn: did we forget John? (24:30) – Jewish apocalyptic literature, supersessionism (28:22) – Pauline apocalyptic and Jewish apocalyptic (31:43) – Johannine apocalyptic (34:36) – Why do apocalyptic Paul scholars like Barth so much? (37:14) – Non-Protestants entering the fold: O’Regan, Hart (40:10) – Pauline apocalyptic in an interdisciplinary and generous mode (44:03) – Apocalyptic epistemology (47:28) – New directions in Pauline apocalyptic (50:22) – Teaching apocalyptic to ministerial students (53:34) – How to connect with Jamie