Behavioral Grooves Podcast

Eugen Dimant, PhD is a Postdoctoral Researcher in the Master of Behavioral and Decision Sciences Department and a Senior Research Fellow at the Identity and Conflict Lab, Political Science Department – both at the University of Pennsylvania. His research is rooted in economics and sits at the crossroads of experimental behavioral economics, behavioral ethics, crime, and corruption, with much of his recent work focusing on the ways “bad apples” (people will malintent) can be thwarted. This is also manifest in his research on behavioral contagion of pro- and anti-social behavior among individuals and groups. Because we met up with him presenting a paper at NoBeC, a social norms conference, we also discussed the role of social norms in pro- and anti-social behaviors. We are inspired by Eugen’s work with social nudges and what can be done to minimize the impact of people who are out to corrupt systems and communities. And, we had a great time talking with this incredibly passionate researcher about his wide variety of interests. We are grateful to Eugen for reaching out to us as we were planning our 100th Episode celebration in Philadelphia. He invited us to the University of Pennsylvania’s NoBeC Conference – the Norms and Behavioral Change Conference – that was happening the same days that we were recording our 100th Episode. Eugen, along with his colleague Chris Nave, PhD, helped us arrange conversations with many researchers and speakers at the conference and we are forever grateful. Finally, we invite you to keep listening after our discussion with Eugen to hear Kurt and Tim’s Grooving Session and then the Bonus Track where we recap the key insights from the episode.    Links Eugen Dimant, PhD: https://www.sas.upenn.edu/lps/graduate/mbds/faculty/eugen-dimant Eugen Dimant research website:https://sites.google.com/view/eugendimant/home Paper 1 (erosion of Norm compliance):https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3355028 Paper 2 (backfiring is nudges):https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3294375 Paper 3 (nudges vs collective behavioral change):https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11127-019-00684-6 Paper 4 (how beliefs matter in behavioral change):https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3326146 NoBeC (Norms and Behavior Change Conference): https://web.sas.upenn.edu/nobec/ Cristina Bicchieri, PhD: https://upenn.academia.edu/CristinaBicchieri Gary Bolton, PhD: https://personal.utdallas.edu/~gxb122130/ Nudge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudge_theory Social Norms: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/social-norms/ Injunctive and Descriptive Norms: https://study.com/academy/lesson/injunctive-and-descriptive-group-norms-definitions-differences-examples.html Pluralistic Ignorance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralistic_ignorance Peer Effects: https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences/applied-and-social-sciences-magazines/peer-effects Coleman’s Boat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGaz0xKG060 Chris Nave, PhD: https://www.sas.upenn.edu/lps/graduate/mbds/contact/christopher-nave Bobo Doll Effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobo_doll_experiment Robert Cialdini, PhD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cialdini Kiki and Bouba: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouba/kiki_effect Pollstar: https://www.pollstar.com/    Musical Links Drake: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_(musician) Bushido: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido_(rapper) U2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U2 Ed Sheeran: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Sheeran Eagles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagles_(band) Rolling Stones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rolling_Stones Fleetwood Mac: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleetwood_Mac

Imagine that the two drawings below are called Kiki and Bouba in some alien language.  If you had to guess which one was Kiki and which one was Bouba - without any other information, which one would be Kiki, and which one would be Bouba?   If you are like most people, the sharp angular shape (on the left) would be named Kiki while the curvier rounded shape (on the right) would be named Bouba.  This effect is called the Bouba/Kiki effect which highlights how we map sounds to visual shapes and was first observed by Wolfgang Kohler in the late 1920s and then refined in the early 2000s by Vilayanure Ramachandran and Edward Hubbard.   In experiments, over 95% of respondents selected the curvy shape as Bouba and the jagged one as Kiki.  The effect shows that words that have softer, rounded sounds (i.e., oo’s and ah’s) are associated with rounder shapes, while sounds that have more angular, sharp sounds (i.e., k’s and I’s) are associated with more pointed shapes.  While this effect focused on speech and visuals, my colleague and co-host of Behavioral Grooves, Tim Houlihan and I have started to use it as a way to describe how we think.  Some of us think with a “Kiki” like a brain.  Others of us think with a “Bouba” like a brain.  While not perfect, it does help in understanding the differences in how our brains process, retain, and regurgitate information.  For instance, a “Kiki brain” is precise and sharp and can remember specific names, dates, and titles.  While a more “Bouba brain” retains information about the general concepts and impacts but is less precise and more holistic in the combination of ideas and thoughts.   So while Tim can typically recall the name of a behavioral science study, the year it was published, and the author(s) (very much a Kiki brain), Kurt can usually only recall the concept that the study explored, how that concept can be applied, and how it interacts with other behavioral science concepts (more of a Bouba brain).    Often times during the podcast, my Bouba mind will be at a loss for the name of a study or a particular researcher, however, Tim’s Kiki brain will have those names readily available.  On the other side of the coin, Tim will be reciting a specific study and my Bouba brain will instantly go to the nuances of the application of how this works and implications for the people involved.  Of course, like most other ways of describing ourselves, this is not an either/or situation.  I would argue that we all have aspects of Kiki thinking AND Bouba thinking depending on the topic, situation, and other factors (i.e., how much sleep we had the night before).  And no brain is just Kiki or Bouba – we shift between the two on a regular basis.  Like personalities, these descriptions are just the tendencies for the way we think.  For instance, I’m not always at a loss for remembering a study name or researcher nor do I not understand the subtleties or connections from those studies that I do remember.  We fluctuate on a continuum and we often move easily between the thinking styles.  In general, my notion is that Kiki brains are more admired.  Those are the people that I don’t like getting into debates with, because they will bring in facts and figures and names at lightning speed and I’m just trying to stay up and connect the dots.   I need to be on my phone looking up references and facts, while they are seemingly pulling them out of the air.  People with KikI brains come across as smarter and more informed – because they can recall these details whereas people with Bouba brains are left talking about the general proposition.  Kiki brains are not fumbling to remember people’s names, the exact figure for the organization’s budget or the year that the Challenger exploded.  At this point, there is no research that is on this or supports this crazy theory.  However, by naming these types of thinking styles, I think we can better interact with each other and contribute to our work.  The power of this is in helping us understand how we communicate with others and understanding how we process and remember information.       Notes Image:  Monochrome version 1 June 2007 by Bendž Vectorized with Inkscape  Maurer, Pathman, and Modloch (2006), The shape of Boubas: sound-shape correspondences in toddlers and adults.  Developmental Science. Ramachandran, V.S. & Hubbard, E.M. (2001). "Synaesthesia: A window into perception, thought and language" (PDF). Journal of Consciousness Studies.   © 2019 Behavioral Grooves

Cristina Bicchieri, PhD is the S. J. Patterson Harvie Professor of Social Thought and Comparative Ethics, a Professor of Philosophy and Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania, a Professor of Legal Studies at the Wharton School, the Head of the Behavioral Ethics Lab, the Director of the Philosophy, Politics, and Economics Program, and is the Faculty Director of the Master of Behavioral and Decision Sciences Program at the University of Pennsylvania. She’s one busy woman! We met up with her at the NoBeC (Norms and Behavioral Change) conference that her program sponsored in the Kislak Center at UPenn. Cristina’s program is in its 3rd year and hosts 75 students from 12 different countries. The unique program emphasizes practical applications of behavioral science and cross-disciplinary work. Students come from celebrity restaurants, tech businesses, NGOs, non-profits and global corporations and find the program engaging because of its diversity. If you’re interested, we encourage you to check it out – there are links in the episode notes for how to reach them. We had some recording issues when we were talking to Christina. Some edits were made to accommodate our gaffs and we hope you won’t mind. And, because we recorded it on the sidelines of a conference, you might hear some background noise occasionally.  © 2019 Behavioral Grooves   Links Cristina Bicchieri, PhD: https://philosophy.sas.upenn.edu/people/cristina-bicchieri The Grammar of Society: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/grammar-of-society/2B063E9C9621C2340DEFB2BE15B3AEA5 Norms in the Wild: https://ndpr.nd.edu/news/norms-in-the-wild-how-to-diagnose-measure-and-change-social-norms/ Master in a Behavioral Decision Science at UPenn: https://www.sas.upenn.edu/lps/graduate/mbds Decision Theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decision_theory Game Theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory Epistemic Foundations of Game Theory: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epistemic-game/ Multiple Equilibria: https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences/applied-and-social-sciences-magazines/multiple-equilibria David Kreps, PhD: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/faculty/david-m-kreps Social Norms: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/social-norms/ Conditional Preference: https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cb36/files/2010_norm.pdf UNICEF: https://www.unicef.org/ Gates Foundation: https://www.gatesfoundation.org/ Reference Network: http://www.iit.comillas.edu/technology-offer/rnm Soap Opera: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_opera Well Told Story: https://www.welltoldstory.com/   Musical Links Giuseppe Verdi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3UAd3d8I6k Wolfgang Mozart: https://www.biography.com/musician/wolfgang-mozart Bruce Springsteen: https://brucespringsteen.net/ U2: https://www.u2.com/index/home Chicago: https://chicagotheband.com/ The Band: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjCw3-YTffo Styx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XcKBmdfpWs Journey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMSFsZFFUzo Fleetwood Mac: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBYHwH1Vb-c   Kurt Nelson: kurt@lantergroup.com Tim Houlihan: tim@behavioralchemy.com

Kurt and Tim like to read about behavioral science and a variety of related fields. To help those interested in the subject, but unsure how to pick good books to either get started or advance their learning, our 2019 Top 10 Reading List should help. Our Top 10 list is really a Top 9, since both Kurt and Tim already had one of the books on both of their lists. But we also go beyond that list with some honorable mentions (that could have easily been swapped for some of our top choices), as well as a shortlist of fiction and poetry for your review. We hope you enjoy this year’s list and encourage you to let us know your thoughts about it. Did we nail the top picks? Did we miss some? What’s on your reading list for 2020? Who do you think should be a guest on Behavioral Grooves in 2020? Let us know. We’d love to hear from you. Do you need some Christmas or Birthday gifts?  Or maybe you just want to treat yourself?   Here are links to the books we mentioned in the episode!   Kurt’s Best Non-Fiction Books John Bargh, “Before You Know It" https://amzn.to/33PdYJR  Yuval Noah Harari, “Sapiens” https://amzn.to/34YWlZO  Michael Mauboussin, “Think Twice” https://amzn.to/2qtfS5y  Wendy Wood, “Good Habits, Bad Habits” https://amzn.to/2RlCjoc     Tim’s Best Non-Fiction Books Rory Sutherland, “Alchemy” https://amzn.to/2OUfG8J  Franz de Waal, “Mama’s Last Hug” https://amzn.to/2ORrEjg  Francesca Gino, “Rebel Talent” https://amzn.to/36alEIb  Roger Dooley, “Friction” (on Kurt’s AND Tim’s lists) https://amzn.to/2r86Gnx  Alan B. Krueger, “Rockonomics” https://amzn.to/38bMQYU    Honorable Mentions Honorable mentions for really great books that you should be aware of. Virtually any of these could have made our Top 10 list.  Nir Eyal, “Indistractable" https://amzn.to/368qiX8  Daniel Pink, “When” https://amzn.to/33QMrbg       https://www.danpink.com/ Daniel Levitin, “The Organized Mind” https://amzn.to/2qnL7Pf http://www.daniellevitin.com Liliana Mason, “Uncivil Agreement” https://amzn.to/2RtIA1j  Tali Sharot, “The Influential Mind” https://amzn.to/33S8wpN    And since we have had great guests with great books in 2019 (we love them and their work), we want to refer you to these authors and titles: Brian Ahearn, “Influence PEOPLE: Powerful Everyday Opportunities to Persuade that are Lasting and Ethical” https://amzn.to/38bc8q8  Ori Brafman, “The Spider and the Starfish" https://amzn.to/2OUdLAQ  Liz Fosslein, “No Hard Feelings” https://amzn.to/2LpVR6S  Will Leach, “Marketing to Mindstates”  https://amzn.to/34UMwvB    https://www.will-leach.com/book Stephen Martin & Joseph Marks, “Messengers”  https://amzn.to/2PfKU99  Amit Sood, “Guide to Stress-Free Living” https://marketplace.mayoclinic.com/shop/healthy-lifestyle/book/mayo-clinic-guide-to-stress-free-living_294600   Tim’s Non-Fiction List We didn’t speak to these on the podcast, because we were most interested in addressing behavioral science books. However, Tim is also an avid reader of fiction and poetry. Tim wanted to mention some books he’s read (or re-read) this year that were particularly rewarding. Madeline Miller, “Circe” http://madelinemiller.com/circe/ John Updike, “Rabbit is Rich” https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/181928/rabbit-is-rich-by-john-updike/  David Whyte, “Everything is Waiting for You” https://www.davidwhyte.com/english-poetry   Thank you!     © 2019 Behavioral Grooves.  Note that we may receive commissions when you click our links and make purchases. However, this does not impact our suggestions, thoughts or ideas. All recommendations are made by Kurt and Tim based on what they believe.

This is Behavioral Grooves’ 100th episode! Who would have thought when we started out two years ago without a clue about HOW to produce and publish a podcast that we’d reach this milestone?  Our first podcast recording began with a very willing Dr. James Heyman, a computer with some recording software, and a dinky little microphone before a meetup we were doing that night. But the conversation was terrific, and we launched it with excitement. Today, we are more thoughtful, have better equipment, and continue to have great guests. For our 100th Episode, we traveled to Philadelphia to host Annie Duke, Jeff Kreisler and Dr. Michael Hallsworth in front of a live audience at the Pennsylvania Academy of the Fine Arts. A little about each of them… This episode covers decision making in an uncertain world with these three renowned experts. We talk about biases and hacks to deal with those biases. And we dove into the role that context plays in our decision making. After the live event, Kurt and Tim groove on some of the highlights of the discussion. Following that, Tim shares a recap in the Bonus Track portion of the episode.   Guests Michael Hallsworth, PhD is the Managing Director of the Behavioural Insights Team in North America, based in Brooklyn, New York. He has also worked on health and taxes in the Cabinet Office of the UK government and has authored behavior change frameworks including MINDSPACE and EAST. Annie Duke is the author of Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don’t Have All the Facts, which quickly became a national bestseller. At one point in her career, she was a professional card player, where she won millions in tournament poker. And she is the co-founder of The Alliance for Decision Education, a non-profit whose mission is to improve lives by empowering students through decision skills education. Jeff Kreisler is a Princeton-educated lawyer who became a comedian, then an author, and then a total advocate for behavioral science. With his co-author, Dan Ariely, they wrote Dollars and Sense: How We Misthink Money and How to Spend it Smarter.   Sponsors and Recognition It is important to note our sponsors. Podbean, who has been hosting us since the very first episode, supported our endeavor and helped us live stream our event to listeners all over the world. We are very grateful to PeopleScience, an organization that supports the application of behavioral sciences with special emphasis on the world of rewards and recognition. PeopleScience is a terrific resource for job postings and original authorship. And, most importantly, PeopleScience is doing something that we love: they are bringing more science to the world of work. Special thanks go to a few of our peeps, too. Ben Granlund and Raya Parks helped us prepare for and execute the event. Chris Nave and Eugen Dimant at UPenn sent their masters students to the hall after a very long day of lectures. And Trey Altemose managed all of the people and technical issues as our stage manager. Your best friend at any live event is your stage manager and Trey guided us at every turn.  © 2019 Behavioral Grooves    Links Annie Duke: https://www.annieduke.com/ Jeff Kreisler: http://jeffkreisler.com/ Michael Hallsworth, PhD: https://www.bi.team/people/dr-michael-hallsworth/ PeopleScience: https://peoplescience.maritz.com/ Podbean: https://www.podbean.com/about-us 100-Year-Old Scotch: http://www.oldest.org/food/scotch/ Overconfidence bias: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overconfidence_effect Imposter Syndrome: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome Motivated Reasoning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivated_reasoning Blind Spot Bias (The Bias Bias): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_blind_spot Base Rates: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/9780470479216.corpsy0109 Illusion of Control: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusion_of_control Human Operating Systems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40QCCMVZDO8 Choice Architecture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice_architecture Tribalism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribalism Paternalism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternalism Backfire Effect: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Backfire_effect Jay Van Bavel: http://as.nyu.edu/content/nyu-as/as/faculty/jay-van-bavel.html Chris Nave, PhD: https://www.sas.upenn.edu/lps/graduate/mbds/contact/christopher-nave Eugen Dimant, PhD: https://www.sas.upenn.edu/lps/graduate/mbds/faculty/eugen-dimant Cristina Bicchieri, PhD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristina_Bicchieri Jim Guszcza, PhD: https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/profiles/jguszcza.html Alex Blau: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexander-blau-2271788/ Alex Imas, PhD: https://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/sds/people/faculty/alex-imas.html Koen Smets: https://www.linkedin.com/in/koensmets/ Motown Records: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motown Soul Train: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_Train     Musical Links: The Five Stairsteps, “Ooh, Child, Things Are Gonna Get Easier”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DHRGrIqmb0 Big Thief: https://bigthief.net/ Yo La Tengo: https://www.pastemagazine.com/blogs/lists/2014/12/the-20-best-yo-la-tengo-songs.html Bon Iver: https://boniver.org/ Joni Mitchell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joni_Mitchell Queen, “Bohemian Rhapsody”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsl3gBVO2k4 Violent Femmes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Femmes White Stripes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Stripes Cake, “I Will Survive”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KJjVMqNIgA Gloria Gaynor, “I Will Survive”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OaEnA4diCI Eagles, “Hotel California”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_California Berry Gordy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berry_Gordy Supremes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Supremes Temptations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Temptations O’Jays, “Love Train”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv0f4hd3UHo Masonboro Sound, “Love Train”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjMthJZT3rA The Spinners: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spinners_(American_R%26B_group) Hall & Oats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_%26_Oates

Katy Milkman is no ordinary behavioral scientist. She’s a Professor of Operations, Information and Decisions at Wharton and has a secondary faculty appointment in the University of Pennsylvania’s Medical School in the Department of Medical Ethics and Health Policy. She’s Co-Director, with Angela Duckworth, at the non-profit Behavior Change for Good Initiative. She’s the host of one of our favorite podcasts, called Choiceology, she is in the middle of writing a book, and she’s a Mom and Partner all at the same time. We are grateful to her for taking time to record a conversation with us about her work on temptation bundling, the sorts of projects she’s getting at the Behavior Change for Good organization, and a few tidbits about what her book, coming out in 2021, will have in store for the readers. Most importantly, Katy shared three important pieces of wisdom about behavior change during our conversation: Behavior change is hard – cut yourself some slack. We humans are not built to do the right thing all the time.  Just keep trying. Stay tuned for our BONUS TRACK at the end where we review key takeaways and offer up a Groove idea for the week! NOTE: This podcast was recorded before Katy Milkman became a podcast phenom of her own and the audio quality in this episode, to put it diplomatically, lacks sparkle. However, we talked to Katy again in episode 232 and we think you’ll the conversation and audio much better there: Katy Milkman: How to Make Healthy Habits that Actually Last: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/katy-milkman-habits-that-last/   (C) 2019 Behavioral Grooves Links Katy Milkman, PhD: http://www.katherinemilkman.com/ Katy Milkman – Twitter: @katy_milkman Behavior Change for Good: https://bcfg.wharton.upenn.edu/ Choiceology podcast: https://www.schwab.com/resource-center/insights/podcast Temptation Bundling: https://mayooshin.com/temptation-bundling/ Fresh Start Effect: https://faculty.wharton.upenn.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Dai_Fresh_Start_2014_Mgmt_Sci.pdf Charles Duhigg: https://charlesduhigg.com/ BJ Fogg Maui Habit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L1R7OtJhWs Robert Cialdini, PhD: https://www.robertcialdinibf.com/ Francesca Gino, PhD: https://francescagino.com/ Angela Duckworth, PhD: https://angeladuckworth.com/   Kurt Nelson: kurt@lanterngroup.com Tim Houlihan: tim@behavioralchemy.com   Musical Links Michael Jackson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson Taylor Swift: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Swift

Chris Nave, PhD is the Associate Director of the Master of Behavioral and Decision Sciences Program at the University of Pennsylvania. We caught up with Chris at the NoBeC conference (Norms and Behavioral Change Conference) at UPenn. NoBeC brought together some of the brightest researchers in the field and we got to attend! The Master of Behavioral and Decision Sciences program is in its 3rd year with 75 students from 12 countries. The students come from jobs in restaurants, fire stations, small businesses, and global corporations and they intend to leave UPenn with an understanding of what it means to be a behavioral scientist, but not actually BE one. We met Chris through our friend, Jeff Kreisler, and we instantly connected as members of the same tribe. But it was even cooler when Chris invited us to attend the conference and to record conversations with some of the researchers. This episode is the cornerstone of the series we recorded at the University of Pennsylvania and we are excited to share an over of the master’s program from Chris Nave.   Links Chris Nave: cnave@upenn.edu UPenn Masters of Behavioral Change Program: https://www.sas.upenn.edu/lps/graduate/mbds/contact Piyush Tantia: https://www.linkedin.com/in/piyush-tantia-4727b74/   Musical Links Baby Shark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrplOhMSoDU The Cure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXCKLJGLENs Red Hot Chili Peppers “Dark Necessity”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWioV5tO1lk Miley Cyrus “Party in the USA”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M11SvDtPBhA AFI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yzu-4kJg6g Vivaldi “Four Seasons”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnDLlajMxyo

Chris Brown is in human risk management and practice is set in backcountry snow. He grew up outside of Philadelphia and after graduating with a degree in Urban Design/Architecture, he moved to Utah to pursue certification with the AMGA (American Mountain Guides Association) in avalanche training.  Chris works as a ski guide and avalanche/snow science professional, but his real job is helping skiers overcome their biases. He incorporates the work of Kahneman and Tversky, Richard Thaler and other great researchers into his classes and we found his intentionality in decision making noteworthy. We had a great conversation with Chris and we also want to express our gratitude to friend and colleague, Ben Granlund, for connecting us with Chris. Ben attended one of Chris’ classes and found it so engaging that he referred us to Chris. Ben was also delighted that Chris relies heavily on behavioral science and reminds us that the biggest threat to your life in avalanche country is your own decision making. After our recording stopped, we discussed Guide Services for training. If you are interested, check out AMGA (amga.com) and the American Avalanche Association: https://www.americanavalancheassociation.org/   Links Chris Brown Email: chrisbr862@gmail.com  Chris Brown Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cbskiclimb/  Ian McCammon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKeoF53syKw Phil Tetlock “Super Forecasters”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV5Gicb66WA Familiarity Bias: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familiarity_heuristic Expert Halo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect System 1 / System 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow Premortem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-mortem Bruce Tremper: https://backcountrymagazine.com/stories/video-avalanche-expert-bruce-tremper-risk/ Bayesian Decision Making: https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Bayesian_decision_theory First Tracks: https://www.boston.com/culture/ski-guru/2012/01/31/its_all_about_f Laurence Gonzales “Deep Survival”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTyfvOrEm1w Wicked Learning Environments: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5c5d/33b858eaf38f6a14b3f042202f1f44e04326.pdf Daniel Kahneman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Kahneman The Tao of Wu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tao_of_Wu   Kurt Nelson: @motivationguru Tim Houlihan: @THoulihan   Musical Links Hip Hop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop Reggae: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggae Classical Music: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music Death Metal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_metal Steel Pulse: https://steelpulse.com/ Wu Tang Clan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBwAxmrE194 MadLib: https://www.stonesthrow.com/madlib Gang Starr: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/gang-starr-guru-bad-name-video-909996/ John Coltrane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH3mb3oXCpw Marcus Miller: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kCi-SsYD5s Stanley Clarke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcuigwtdzS4 Bela Fleck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWIfFIEeZjw Victor Wooten: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzL4BkqmzDQ Herbie Hancock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHhD4PD75zY

Sometimes things just go better in twos and that was the case regarding our guests for this episode. Zarak Kahn is the Behavioral Innovation Director at Maritz and Erik Johnson is an independent Behavioral Science Consultant. They are the co-hosts of Action Design Radio and board members at Action Design Network. Kurt and Tim have known them as coaches and colleagues and wanted to talk to them about all of that. We discussed how the application of behavioral science continues to grow in both the corporate and policy words. Today, there are more jobs, more workshops, more bachelor's programs, more masters programs, more PhD programs, more meetups and more bootcamps than ever before. We expressed our collective desires to make behavioral science so easy to do it will be ingrained into every job from UX to Marketing to HR, and how we’d like to see people applying a behavioral lens in all of their decision-making. In our grooving session, Kurt and Tim emphasized the importance of expanding the community of people applying behavioral science and we are grateful to share the mantle with very bright and fine folk like Erik and Zarak.    Links Erik Johnson Twitter: https://twitter.com/erikleejohnson  Erik Johnson LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erikleejohnson/  Erik Johnson Website: erikj.net  Zarak Kahn LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/khanzarak/ Action Design Network: http://www.action-design.org/ Action Design Radio (podcast): https://actiondesignradio.libsyn.com/ Robert Cialdini: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cialdini Dan Kahneman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Kahneman Richard Thaler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Thaler Cass Sunstein: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Sunstein    Musical Links Idles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuQG6_evFc8 Local Natives: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Natives Lana Del Rey: https://lanadelrey.com/ Carley Rae Jepson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWNaR-rxAic Wye Oak “The Louder I Call the Faster it Runs”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO7ffikJOE4 Sylvan Esso: http://www.sylvanesso.com/ Johnny Flynn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Flynn_%26_The_Sussex_Wit Sharon Van Etten: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7sTHoeH0eA Gillian Welch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ_nWPxrzmE M Ward: https://mwardmusic.com/ The National: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIWmRbHDhGw

Victoria Shaffer is a researcher and professor at the University of Missouri. Victoria focuses on applying decision psychology and behavioral economics to medical decision making. In particular, she is researching judgment and decision making and how they impact the design of patient decision support tools. Tim and Victoria met working on a field research project with Dan Ariely, PhD because of her work on non-monetary rewards with Scott Jeffrey, PhD. She was pushing back on common sense preferences, such as money is the best motivator, just as she is today with her work in the medical field. Our conversation with Victoria began on familiar ground: the preference for cash as a reward and how it’s actually less effective than non-monetary rewards in incentive schemes. But we soon turned to the very personal journey of how she and her mother dealt with decisions surrounding her father’s diagnosis with cancer. Her personal journey became the foundation for important research to help patients, their loved ones and the caregivers communicate more effectively through stories.  It’s a fascinating discussion and we hope you enjoy it.    Links Victoria Shaffer: https://psychology.missouri.edu/people/shaffer Shelly Taylor on Biases and Mental Health: http://humancond.org/_media/papers/taylor_brown_88_illusion_and_well_being.pdf Hal Arkes: https://psychology.osu.edu/people/arkes.1 Decision Support Tools: https://www.healthit.gov/topic/safety/clinical-decision-support “Being Mortal” by Atul Gawande: http://atulgawande.com/book/being-mortal/ MD Anderson Cancer Center: https://www.mdanderson.org/ Advance Directives: https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/advance-care-planning-healthcare-directives Palliative Care: https://getpalliativecare.org/whatis/ Peter Ubel – Duke: https://www.fuqua.duke.edu/faculty/peter-ubel Affective Forecasting Errors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affective_forecasting Columbia Records: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Records Dan Gilbert: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Gilbert_(psychologist)   Kurt Nelson, PhD: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kurtwnelson/ Tim Houlihan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-houlihan-b-e/   Music Van Halen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X6e7uctAww Black Sabbath: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s7_WbiR79E Ozzy Osbourne: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtHEN518VCM Styx:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XcKBmdfpWs Depeche Mode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diT3FvDHMyo The Cure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXCKLJGLENs Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ9NaqjeDGU James Taylor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWGK_fWKb4U