
Decoding the Gurus
An exiled Northern Irish anthropologist and a hitchhiking Australian psychologist take a close look at the contemporary crop of 'secular gurus', iconoclasts, and other exiles from the mainstream, offering their own brands of unique takes and special insights.
Leveraging two of the most diverse accents in modern podcasting, Chris and Matt dig deep into the claims, peek behind the psychological curtains, and try to figure out once and for all... What's it all About?
Join us, as we try to puzzle our way through and talk some smart-sounding smack about the intellectual giants of our age, from Jordan Peterson to Robin DiAngelo. Are they revolutionary thinkers or just grifters with delusions of grandeur?
Join us and let's find out!
Latest episodes

Jul 10, 2022 • 47min
*Patreon Preview* Lex and Haidt: Gurometer Ratings
What's this? Another episode?Well, sort of...Providing both a tantalising peak behind the Patreon curtain and an apology for the delayed release, we decided to release this week's Gurometer episode to everyone.Witness the science (/art) of Gurometry in action, as we fire up the Gurometer(TM) to calculate the precise Guru-nature of a techno monk and a perturbed social scientist.If you want to play along you can add your own scores for Lex, Haidt, or any of our previous gurus here:Rate the Gurus websiteAnd if you want to check the collected results:Gurometer Results

49 snips
Jul 8, 2022 • 3h 4min
Lex Fridman & Jonathan Haidt: The Techno Monk & The Social Scientist
Lex Fridman, an AI expert and celebrated podcast host, teams up with Jonathan Haidt, a prominent social psychologist known for tackling cultural issues. They dive deep into the complexities of social media's impact on mental health, particularly among youth, and explore the dynamics of misinformation and polarization in today's society. Haidt critiques the culture wars while discussing the pressing need for authentic dialogue in online spaces. Their conversation reflects on personal growth and the historical context of current societal challenges.

Jun 10, 2022 • 2h 7min
Interview with Nathan Allebach on Online Brands, Weird Twitter & that Steak Umms Account
In a way, we're all managing our personal brand in the infosphere aren't we? But Nathan Allebach, in a far more tangible way, really does manage brands - not just his own, but also for companies. And in managing the Steak-Umm brand on twitter, he drew attention by being one of the first to adopt a personal, authentic, and informative style - covering topics far beyond the world of frozen processed steak. Far from providing the typical zero-calorie bland corporate platitudes, Nathan quickly drew attention by delivering substantial threads on weighty topics like conspiracism and online disinformation. He played a delicate game of being edgy without being snarky or combative, providing informative and positive intellectual fare, nourishing both the hearts and minds of twitter users everywhere. As a hardened and savvy longtime twitter user, he's got a good understanding of the weirdness of Being Online, and the various ways to do so.So, we were glad to have a chance to meat Nathan (virtually of course, not in the flesh), to get his insights on navigating the online world, on what it means to See and Be Seen there, and his personal approach to Doing It Right. He didn't share any Convenient Meat Recipes For Busy Professionals though, weirdly enough... Maybe we'll have to get him back for that.LinksBrand Twitter Grows Up: Nathan's Article at The VultureSteak Umm's Mega thread on TwitterChris' Tweet threads about Pageau: here and hereJonathan Pageau: Why Human's SacrificeRichard Dawkins & Jordan Peterson's discussion that features the DNA segmentChris' Article on Ritual & Religion at AeonChris' co-authored article on Trump's inauguration as a ritual eventGurometerWant to help us rate the Gurus? You can enter your own scores for any Guru here!

May 30, 2022 • 1h 55min
Jaron Lanier: Fear of an Algorithmic Planet
The season of tech is upon us! Hold on to your hats and press those non-fungible tokens tightly to your bosom, because we are getting into the thick of it.Matt and Chris kick things off with an exploration of tech pioneer Jaron Lanier. Sometimes referred to as the father of virtual reality, Jaron is a promising candidate for gurudom given his foreboding warnings of a bleak algorithmic future and a penchant for opening tech lectures barefoot with impromptu performances of exotic instruments. In short, he's a groovy guy and Matt digs that! Chris, being the sour lemon that he is, takes a little while to adjust to Jaron's particular style.Some Weinsteinian warning signs might be flashing but there really are eccentric and very clever people in the world... and Lanier might just be one of them? He certainly has a track record of critically commenting on techno-optimism and social media platforms for at least two decades. But some of his pronouncements seem a tad OTT and some recommendations a little hand-wavy...So how do the decoders square this particular dread-locked circle? Well, you're going to have to listen all the way to the end to find out. So, get yourself comfortable. Drink some coffee and pop some no-doze, and strap yourself in.Smash the Duck!LinksWas the Internet a Horrible Mistake? Jaron Lanier on Honestly with Bari WeissThat VR boxing game Chris' mentionedPeterson being a smug judge on Twitter

May 24, 2022 • 60min
*Patreon Preview* Decoding Academia 8: Monkey see, Monkey do?
Ahead of the Jaron Lanier episode a special preview episode of our ongoing Decoding Academia series.This week Matt and Chris take a look at a classic comparative study of social learning processes in chimpanzees and infants (Horner & Whiten, 2005). They discover the correct method to break into a puzzle box, that chimpanzees are sometimes more logical than people, and that popular idioms do not always house universal truths.For anyone interested in reading the paper it is available for free here.We will be back later in the week with our normal decoding episode.

May 20, 2022 • 2h 12min
Interview with Michael Inzlicht on the Replication Crisis, Mindfulness, and Responsible Heterodoy
It's been a while but don't worry the DtG elves have been hard at work and a veritable bounty of content is on its way. The long-promised Jaron Lanier decoding is on its way next week, but this week the cross-overs continue as we are joined by Mickey Inzlicht, esteemed Psychologist, Research Excellence Faculty Scholar at the University of Toronto, and long term (retired) co-host of the Two Psychologists, Four Beers podcast.Mickey has now hung up his podcasting headphones but like an old prizefighter, we were able to lure him back into the limelight one last time with promises of unlimited booze and global fame. To keep Mickey from realising we could provide neither, we then subjected him to an unrelenting barrage of questions for almost two hours. Under our relentless questioning, Mickey gave up the goods on some precious long-buried information, including what it's like to work with Jordan Peterson, the details on his campaign to destroy introspection, and what he really thinks of the Gurus. We also manage to discuss some serious stuff like the state of contemporary psychology, the impact of the replication crisis, whether preregistration is always beneficial (it is, don't listen to Matt!), and to resolve the fundamental nature of the Self!Mickey is a wise egg, a funny guy, and a veteran podcaster and we really enjoyed this conversation so we hope you will too! Stick around at the end for some Tamler themed feedback and more pronunciation errors than you can shake a stick at.Back next week with Jaron Lanier!LinksMickey's HomepageTwo Psychologists Four Beers 27: Against MindfulnessBernard Schiff's Article on Jordan Peterson for the Toronto Star: I was Jordan Peterson’s strongest supporter. Now I think he’s dangerous.Inzlicht, M., & Friese, M. (2019). The past, present, and future of ego depletion. Social Psychology.Friese, M., Loschelder, D. D., Gieseler, K., Frankenbach, J., & Inzlicht, M. (2019). Is ego depletion real? An analysis of arguments. Personality and Social Psychology Review, 23(2), 107-131.Guardian article about that Facebook StudyHoehl, S., Keupp, S., Schleihauf, H., McGuigan, N., Buttelmann, D., & Whiten, A. (2019). ‘Over-imitation’: A review and appraisal of a decade of research. Developmental Review, 51, 90-108.

Apr 29, 2022 • 2h 16min
Very Bad Gurus with David Pizarro & Tamler Sommers
In the most ambitious crossover since the Fraggles met the Muppets, this week we have a special joint episode with moral psychologist David Pizzaro and famed philosopher and ghost detective, Tamler Sommers. Also known as the hosts of a small academic podcast Very Bad Wizards.Stealing the format of their show we have a culture war heavy intro section featuring discussion of Joe Rogan censorship, covid debates, Japanese maid cafes, and the great ghost debate of 2022. Following that we move on to an in-depth round-table discussion of the 2012 Paul Thomas Anderson movie 'The Master'. The movie explores the relationship between a wastrel and a cult leader and features performances by Joacquin Phoenix, Philip Seymour Hoffman, and Amy Adams. There is no denying it's an acting masterclass (and thematically relevant for the show!) but is it any good?Join us and help us as we attempt to decode with the wizards.LinksVery Bad Wizards podcastEmbrace the Void 237: Defining "religion" with Chris Kavanagh'Here We Are Podcast' Ep. 381 Internet Gurus w/ Dr. Chris KavanaghThe Stoa: Truth, Trust, and Culture War w/ Zubin Damania, Christopher Kavanagh, Ben Burgis, and David Fuller

Apr 23, 2022 • 2h 3min
Interview with Timbah Toast on his Tim Pool Documentary & Scooby Doo Partisans
This week's episode we have an extended interview with an independent decoder, the YouTube documentary maker, Timbah-on-Toast. A kindred spirit in many respects Timbah is perhaps the ultimate form of the 'I can't come to bed, someone is wrong on the internet' meme. He makes detailed videos analysing the content of a variety of internet pundits, especially those who are posing as something they are not.If you have not experienced one of Timbah's documentaries you should go do so now. He has an excellent 3-part series on Dave Rubin's interview techniques and another 4-part series breaking down the career of the propagandist founder of the Veritas Project, James O'Keefe.His most recent series, however, is looking at self-proclaimed milquetoast centrist fence-sitter, the eternal beanie wearing Tim Pool. We compare notes, delve into what makes Timbah motivated to do what he does, and discuss his Scooby Doo narrative arc.So join us as Chris meets a kindred consumer of irritating content and Matt continues to ponder if it's all just cloud castles and narcissism.Also featuring... a Weinstein World update, the standard banter quotient, and an abusive Patreon shoutout segment.LinksJordan Peterson's 'Smug Judge' TweetBret Weinstein & Jonathan Pageau: Ancient Wisdom, Modern WorldTimbah's Series on Dave Rubin: Battle of IdeasTimbah's Series on James O'Keefe: 10 Years of TruthTim Pool: Chaotic News AnalystTim Pool: Fence Sitter

Apr 8, 2022 • 1h 47min
Reverend Sun Myung Moon: Absolute Decoding
This week we return one more time to the disturbing world of Reverend Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church, also known as the 'Moonies', this time with a historical decoding episode.We are joined again this week by Elgen Strait, from Falling Out podcast, who helps us with a historical decoding of Reverend Moon's speeches and Moonie promotional material.Due to the subject matter we cannot promise a barrel of laughs but we hope this episode offers some useful insights into the approach of a genuine cult leader. It's also a useful comparison episode to see where there are parallels with the modern secular gurus we usually examine and where they diverge.So join us as we return to an imagined glory era of America in the 1950s (or was it 70s) when Absolute Sex & a God centred ideology was all anyone needed for a perfect society... at least according to Moon. LinksFalling Out PodcastSun Myung Moon: God Bless America Festival (1976) Rare Complete Bicentennial Documentary & We will Stand. Rev. Sun Myung Moon QAnon Anonymous 160: The Moonies Conquer DC feat Elgen StraitArticle on Trump's appearance at Unification Church linked eventJordan Peterson speaking with Andy Ngo about Antifa

Mar 31, 2022 • 1h 31min
Interview with Elgen Strait on growing up in the Moonies & cultish manipulation
This episode is the first of two linked episodes in which we delve into the disturbing world of Reverend Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church also known as the 'Moonies'.Here in an interview episode we introduce Elgen Strait, host of the Falling Out Podcast which is "a podcast about leaving the Moonies and other cults, as told by the kids who grew up within them." The topic matter is serious and Elgen deftly introduces us to the manipulative cult dynamics he experienced first hand, as well as offering some broader information about how the Moonies craft their public image and raise funds.However, Elgen is a man after our own hearts and his dark sense of humour means that he can also enjoy a laugh at Moon's expense & enlighten us about Absolute Sex(!), a term that might mean something slightly different than you imagine.Our next episode will be guest co-hosted by Elgen as we take an excursion from the contemporary secular gurus and attempt to decode some historical recordings from a bonafide religious cult leader.This episode hopefully provides the foundations to better understand that decoding and we hope you 'enjoy' the discussion with Elgen as much as we did, despite the subject matter!LinksFalling Out PodcastSun Myung Moon: God Bless America Festival (1976) Rare Complete Bicentennial Documentary & We will Stand. Rev. Sun Myung Moon(content for the decoding episode)QAnon Anonymous 160: The Moonies Conquer DC feat Elgen StraitArticle on Trump's appearance at Unification Church linked eventPodcast RecommendationsWhen Diplomacy FailsMonocle 24: Foreign DeskWar on the Rocks