
Qiological Podcast
Acupuncture and East Asian medicine was not developed in a laboratory. It does not advance through double-blind controlled studies, nor does it respond well to petri dish experimentation. Our medicine did not come from the statistical regression of randomized cohorts, but from the observation and treatment of individuals in their particular environment. It grows out of an embodied sense of understanding how life moves, unfolds, develops and declines.
Medicine comes from continuous, thoughtful practice of what we do in clinic, and how we approach that work. The practice of medicine is more — much more — than simply treating illness. It is more than acquiring skills and techniques. And it is more than memorizing the experiences of others. It takes a certain kind of eye, an inquiring mind and relentlessly inquisitive heart.
Qiological is an opportunity to deepen our practice with conversations that go deep into acupuncture, herbal medicine, cultivation practices, and the practice of having a practice. It’s an opportunity to sit in the company of others with similar interests, but perhaps very different minds. Through these dialogues perhaps we can better understand our craft.
Latest episodes

Apr 6, 2021 • 1h 16min
194 Restoration of the World • John Stan
Our work as practitioners involves restoration. We know that neither we nor our patients are separate from the natural world. Our daily clinic might be focused on the microcosm that is our patient, but we know that their relationships to family, kin and friends are also part of the tapestry of their lives. As is the health and vitality of their communities and world at large.In this conversation with John Stan we explore the backstory of the manufacturing and environmental impact of our most essential tool— needles. Listen in to this discussion of all that goes into those pins you use everyday and how a few changes of habit can have an impact on the waste generated by your clinic.Head on over to the show notes page for more information about this episode and for links to the resources discussed in the interview.

Mar 30, 2021 • 1h 27min
193 Physiology, Congruence and Counterflow • Bryan McMahon
There is a saying in Chinese, 以人為本, Understanding a person is basis of knowing how to treat them. Our work requires we both understand our medicine, and understand how it applies to that individual who sits before us in our clinic.In this conversation with Bryan McMahon we explore the importance of congruence in health and illness, take a look at the dynamics of counterflow that will give you a new perspective on this pathomechanism. And we’ll look into how more deeply understanding physiology will help you with difficult presentations in the clinic.Listen in to this discussion of medicine, service and the interactions of heaven and earth through the dynamics of the five phases and six qi.Head on over to the show notes page for more information about this episode and for links to the resources discussed in the interview.

Mar 23, 2021 • 1h 10min
192 Having a Home Office • Ji Ling Lin
What is the best business model and size of acupuncture practice? That depends on the practitioner, their values, goals and individual perspective. Just like our medicine, while there are core principles that form a foundation, the methods that arise and the various ways to engage the medicine and a practice as unique as each individual. In this conversation Ji Ling Lin, a fairly recent graduate, grabs the microphone and steers this conversation with podcast host Michael Max and gets his perspective and experience with having a home office. Listen into this discussion on the benefits and challenges of having a home office, and how our practices are an expression of our own spirit, vision and values.

Mar 19, 2021 • 56min
Mistakes and Discoveries- group discussion on learning Saam acupuncture
Mistakes and discoveries go hand in hand. And there is really no way to get it right in medicine without getting wrong on the way to getting right.This is another in a continuing series of conversations between Toby Daly along with Laura Christensen and Sharon Weizenbaum who are actively engaged in learning the Saam acupuncture method.While we know that the practice of medicine requires of us constant study and sometimes diving into a new perspective, it is usually easier said than done.Listen in to this conversation for some areas of uncertainty in the midst of learning a new system, and for the clinical insights that come from attentive and thoughtful practice.

Mar 16, 2021 • 1h 19min
191 Fluid Physiology and Pathology • Steve Clavey
We think of the meridians as being a connective network within the body. But it is the fluids that actually permeate all the organs and tissues, and in a sense connect and allow for communication between all aspects of the body. And at the same time provide the medium for nourishment and exchange.In this discussion with Steve Clavey we discuss the vital role of fluids, the vast connectivity of the San Jiao, the mischief created by phlegm, and how some simple herbal formulas can make a big difference in the state of a patient’s fluids and health.Listen into this conversation on fluid physiology and pathology and how the process of learning medicine is an ongoing investigation in proving to ourselves how this medicine works. Head on over to the show notes page for more information about this episode and for links to the resources discussed in the interview.

Mar 9, 2021 • 1h 23min
190 The Power and Practice of "No" • Elisa Yip
East Asian medicine practitioners want to be helpful. That is often a large part of what drew us to this work. Sometimes being helpful is not in what we say yes to, but rather that to which we say, no.In this discussion with Elisa Yip we look at how saying no is deeply related to our ethical and moral stances. How our “yes” is more trustworthy when we can say “no,” and that there is a lot we can find out about ourselves when we dig into the discomfort that comes with a heartfelt and unequivocal, no. Listen in to this conversation on the power of no, and the clarity that it can bring. Head on over to the show notes page for more information about this episode and for links to the resources discussed in the interview.

Mar 2, 2021 • 1h 20min
189 Cultivating Confidence • Vanessa Menendez-Covelo
Confidence at the beginning of any endeavor, especially at the beginning of a medical practice, a new business, or new career is not possible. You may have some skills, tools and competence in their use. But confidence, that comes later after you’ve had some skin in the game and learned to sort out problems and challenges on your own.In this discussion with Vanessa Menendez-Covelo we explore how the learning process itself is our teacher, that our confidence comes not from knowing but learning to work through the gaps in our knowledge, and that persistence and perseverance are required for this journey.Listen in to this conversation on developing a sense of stability in your work, the importance of learning through challenging situations and how a background in computers can help you with learning and practicing acupuncture.Head on over to the show notes page for more information about this episode and for links to the resources discussed in the interview.

Feb 23, 2021 • 1h 23min
188 Herbal Medicine for the Aftermath of Covid • Nigel Dawes
There is a moment in between sensing and allowing what is felt to enter the world of cognition and concept. It’s a liminal space of being and feeling and if you can linger there for a moment there is information that is beyond the ken of words. In this discussion with Nigel Dawes we explore how palpation allows us an opportunity to imbibe that sensual place between being and thinking, and how that can help us with our diagnostic work. We also consider how our herbal medicine readily lends itself to the treatment of Post-Covid syndromes and how our medicine can be of great service in the aftermath of coronavirus infections. Listen into this conversation on cultivating that attentive perceptual space just this side of language and the maps of the mind, the opportunities for using ancient formulas for modern problems and the circuitous journey that went into the writing of Nigel’s new book.Head on over to the show notes page for more information about this episode and for links to the resources discussed in the interview.

Feb 16, 2021 • 1h 14min
187 Money Archetype and Metaphor • Lacey Dupre
There isn’t anyone who doesn’t have an opinion about money. Regardless of what kind of economic system you have an ideological bent toward, one thing is for sure; as long as humans have worked together and pooled their resources for mutual benefit there has been some way of recognizing value and exchange. In this conversation with Lacey Dupre we look at the yin and yang of money, consider some archetypal influences and get friendly with the transformative potential of money.Listen into this conversation on money, value and worth. Head on over to the show notes page for more information about this episode and for links to the resources discussed in the interview.

Feb 9, 2021 • 1h 31min
186 Language, Presence and Practice • Randy Clere
Zhuang Zi says, “Words exist because of meaning. Once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words so I can talk with him?” Any seasoned practitioner will tell you that skillful use of language and the ability to listen beyond words is an essential aspect of clinical practice. In this conversation with Randy Clere we explore the use of language not only so that we may better understand our patients, but so that they may better understand themselves. Listen in to this discussion of how the fluid medium of language facilitates connection, rapport and presence.Head on over to the show notes page for more information about this episode and for links to the resources discussed in the interview.