Plain Talk

Lawmakers in Bismarck are considering a number of school choice bills which would, in various ways, make public dollars available for parents to use toward private school tuition. The most important one, perhaps, is Senate Bill 2400, introduced by Sen. Michelle Axtman, and it does a whole lot more than just fund school choice. As currently amended, it would create what's called education savings accounts, making at least $1,000 available for every student in North Dakota who attends a public school or is home-schooled. For students attending participating private schools, there would be $4,000 available per student for families making 300% of the federal poverty level or less, $2,000 for families making up to 500% of the poverty level, and $1,000 for everyone else. These funds could be used not just for tuition, but other things as well, like a STEM camp or tutoring, but there's a big price tag attached. The most recent fiscal note attached to the legislation estimates its cost at north of $200 million per two-year budget cycle. Sen. Axtman joined Plain Talk to discuss this legislation, including its cost, the impact it may have on funding for public schools, and the process through which North Dakotans would access these funds. Also on this episode, co-host Chad Oban and I talked about the status of culture war bills in the Legislature, as well as Rep. Lori VanWinkle's vile comments about infertile women. This episode is brought to you by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation, providing education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advancing quality of life initiatives, and promoting and enhancing the conservation heritage of North Dakota. Learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

At the beginning of this episode of Plain Talk, Attorney General Drew Wrigley took exception to my recent reporting suggesting that he and Gov. Kelly Armstrong are at odds over sentencing legislation and the performance of state prison officials. Based on what would follow, I think the conflict between two of North Dakota's top elected officials is positively overt. According to Wrigely, the North Dakota Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, headed by director Colby Braun, is lying to state lawmakers and the public. He took particular issue with a recent fiscal note issued by the DOCR indicating that so-called "truth in sentencing" legislation he supports, which would mean that inmates serve a larger percentage of their sentences, will cost taxpayers as much as $269 million. "Their quest is to make it extraordinarily expensive to turn people away from the bill," he said. "That is a blatant falsehood," a stormy Wrigley told guest-cost Erin Oban and I. "It is not worth the paper it's written on," he continued about the fiscal note. "It would be a joke if it weren't a matter of serious policy debate," he said. Wrigley also said that DOCR officials have been hiding data from the public and lawmakers, and making misleading statements about rising crime rates. "What an absolute abdication of responsibility," concluded. These are serious accusations -- lying, abdication of responsibility, etc. -- but Braun isn't an independent operator. He has a boss. That's Armstrong, who was also scheduled to appear on this episode to discuss the progress of property tax reform, which he has made his primary focus during this legislative session.  I asked Wrigley if he felt Braun should be fired, and he demured, saying it wasn't his place to advise the governor on personnel issues. As for Armstrong's feelings about Braun? "I have total confidence in Colby," Armstrong told us when I asked him about Wrigley's remarks. "I try not to make things personal," he added. Armstrong said he hadn't yet reviewed the fiscal note issued by DOCR in response to Wrigley's legislation, which is Senate Bill 2128, but expressed some sympathy with its conclusions about cost. "It turns out when you lock people up, it's expensive," he said. Armstrong also said that while he'll take advice from his staff and cabinet into consideration, if he is ultimately asked to sign something like SB2128 into law, the decision will ultimately be based on his consideration of its merits. As for the progress on property taxes, Armstrong said he's pleased with the debate, though he's worried about lawmakers watering down the caps in his bill. House Bill 1176, which was introduced by Rep. Mike Nathe and carries the governor's plan, was amended in policy committees to allow local governments to set aside a 3% cap on spending increases for as much as 10 years if approved by a vote. "The way it was done probably means there aren't really caps," Armstrong said of the change, later arguing that it was a loophole so big "you could drive a grain truck through it." This episode is presented by Dakota Resource Council. For nearly 50 years, DRC has worked across North Dakota to protect our land, water and future. Become a member, volunteer and take action, or donate today at www.DRCinfo.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

In our promotions for this episode of Plain Talk, we had indicated that state Rep. Nico Rios would be joining us. Rios has made some fairly ugly headlines over the past year or so. He derated two law enforcement officers with bigoted and homophobic comments during an arrest for DUI. More recently, with regard to Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum Pardo, he wondered in an X post "if the CIA would help Trump overthrow and kick this Jew out of power in Mexico." He's also introduced a resolution, in the current legislative session in Bismarck, which would have the State of North Dakota "acknowledge the Kingship of Jesus Christ over all the world," something that likely violates the state constitution, the U.S. constitution, and would not be in keeping with what many North Dakotans -- those of the Jewish faith, or Islamic, etc. -- believe to be true. Me and my co-host, Chad Oban, were looking forward to a respectful interview with Rios about these words and actions. Unfortunately, just minutes before the agreed-upon time for the interview, Rios backed out. "Ay dude I'm not going on your boring little show," he told me in a text. "When I initially agreed to come on Sunday afternoon I thought it was just to promote my Christ is King Resolution, but you seem to be focusing on my social media. NOT NEWS. Got more important things to do than chat Capitol gossip." We did have a very good interview with state Rep. Mike Nathe, who spoke about his property tax bill (which carries Gov. Kelly Armstrong's plan for reform) as well as legislation he's backing that would require all candidates seeking a political party's nomination to collect signatures to appear on the primary ballot. Currently, candidates endorsed at party conventions do not have to collect signatures. "I'm just glad they got this one out so everyone can see it," he said of his property tax bill, which just emerged from the policy committee with a "do-pass" recommendation and some amendments. The committee added the option for local voters to approve a 10-year exemption from the budget caps promoted by Gov. Armstrong. It also lowered the amount of the primary residence tax credit by roughly $100, and added an income tax cut. "If it was my desire that would have been in a separate bill," he said of the income tax portion. Nathe also responded to some of the controversy around Rep. Rios. "I don't agree with it," he said of Rios's words and actions. "My colleagues don't agree with it." Asked if he felt his party should remove Rios from the caucus, and strip him of committee assignments, Nathe deferred to House Majority Leader Mike Lefor, though he did have this message for the people who elected Rios: "The people of Williston have got to stand up." This episode is presented by Dakota Resource Council. For nearly 50 years, DRC has worked across North Dakota to protect our land, water, and future. Become a member; volunteer and take action; or donate today at www.DRCinfo.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive  

"We live in an age where people can say whatever they want without consequence," says Steve Hunegs, executive director of the Jewish Community Relations Council of Minnesota and the Dakotas. Hunegs appeared on this episode of Plain Talk to discuss the anti-Semitic comments made recently by state Rep. Nico Rios, who referred to Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum Pardo as "this Jew." "There's nothing new under the sun with anti-Semitism," Hunegs told me and co-host Chad Oban, noting that hateful tropes and conspiracy theories focused on the Jewish people are often centuries old and dusted off for modern contexts. He said he hopes to have a "respectful" and "intelligent" conversation with Rep. Rios at some point. He wants to "try to have good speech drive out the bad speech." Also on this episode, Cody Schuler, advocacy manager for the ACLU of North Dakota, joined to talk about how some communities in North Dakota are trying to balance the principles of free speech with the desire some in public have to use open meetings as stages for at times hateful and bigoted language. He also spoke to legislation mandating the 10 commandments and Pledge of Allegiance in classrooms, as well as a Republican-backed bill that would expand legal access to abortion in the state. This episode is presented by Dakota Resource Council. For nearly 50 years, DRC has worked across North Dakota to protect our land, water, and future. Become a member; volunteer and take action; or donate today at www.DRCinfo.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

Property taxes are complicated, so is it any surprise that reforming the property tax code is similarly complicated? We talked about the property tax issue on this Plain Talk (again) because it is, without a doubt, the most complicated and consequential question before lawmakers in Bismarck during the 2025 session. Rep. Scott Louser, a Republican from Minot, discussed his property tax plan, which includes coupling a spending cap on local governments with a buydown of property tax mills. He also critiqued Gov. Kelly Armstrong's plan, saying he's worried that his proposed primary residence tax credits could depress North Dakota's real estate markets. Sen. Mark Weber, a Republican from Casselton, talked about his role in this process as the chair of the Finance and Tax committee, which will need to sort through these bills. Weber represents a largely rural area, and said that the owners of farm land are worried about being left out in the cold on property tax relief. In some rural areas, the bulk of property taxes are paid by a relatively small number of land owners. Is that fair? And what sort of a situation are we creating if a small number of voters, who don't pay the property tax thanks to the state's primary residence credits, can vote to raise taxes on a much smaller number of land-owning voters who do? "Everybody should pay a little property tax," Sen. Weber said. He also expressed frustration with the number of bills introduced this legislative session, which close to a record for the last 20 years. "I think we are introducing entirely too many bills in the legislature," he said. "If we had less bills we could have more meaningful debates," he added. This episode is brought to you by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation, providing education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advancing quality of life initiatives, and promoting and enhancing the conservation heritage of North Dakota.  Learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

There is a fight in the Legislature between the North Dakota Game & Fish Department and a group of hunters and landowners over regulations aimed at curbing the impact of chronic wasting disease on North Dakota's wildlife populations. But is that fight really about CWD? Or is this another front in the culture war spurred by (in some respects not entirely unreasonable) frustration with Game & Fish regulations? Dusty Backer is an activist (I don't use that word pejoratively, though he objected to being described that way) who joined this episode of Plain Talk to discuss the issue. He argues that concerns over CWD are feigned by state officials, federal officials, and academics as an avenue toward "controlling people." "Prions don't exist," he told us (CWD is described by health officials as "a prion disease"). He said that the state's efforts to regulate bait hunting, implemented as one method to control the spread of CWD, are unreasonable and an affront to property rights. Also on this episode, we've heard a lot about Gov. Kelly Armstrong's property tax plan, but Rep. Ben Koppelman, a Republican from West Fargo, has an alternative he says is better, though he admits that he likes broad portions of Armstrong's proposal. "The cap in the governor's plan I agree with," he said, referring to a 3% limit on growth in local budgets which he says the governor took from him. "I'm honored he would take that idea and put it in his plan." "Where I disagree is on the relief portion," Koppelman continued, saying that his plan delivers more tax relief on primary residences more quickly than Armstrong's plan by buying down a percentage as opposed to providing a fixed credit. He says there is political risk in not delivering tax relief swiftly. "I think we're going to set ourselves up for another measure," he said, referring to Measure 4, a proposal to abolish taxes on property values which voters defeated by a wide margin last year. Koppelman argues that, under his plan, a broader crossection of property owners will feel relief on a shorter timeline than under the governor's plan. "The idea is everyone should get to zer [property taxes] together," he said. This episode is brought to you by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation, providing education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advancing quality of life initiatives, and promoting and enhancing the conservation heritage of North Dakota. Learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

There's no denying that the easy availability of explicit content on the internet is a major problem for parents, not to mention schools. We all agree, children shouldn't be looking at pornography, but how we go about regulating access (and even how we define what is and is not pornography) are tricky problems. Rep. Steve Swiontek, a Republican from Fargo, has proposed a bill that would create a requirement for the purveyors of explicit content online to implement age verification, but the government wouldn't enforce it. Instead, the legislation creates a legal liability for the companies allowing them to be sued by private citizens, or classes of citizens, if they aren't doing verification. "I do have a passion for this one," Rep. Swiontek said on this episode of Plain Talk. Also on this episode, we discussed a growing trend in the insurance industry that's worrisome for people obliged to take expensive medications. Basically, the insurance companies aren't counting payments made on prescription drugs with third-party money toward a patient's deductible. If the patient gets a coupon or a gift card to cover a portion of their out of pocket payment, that doesn't count. If they get some help from family, or a charity or a church, that also doesn't count. That can leave those patients stuck on an out-of-pocket treadmill for much longer than they would need to be. Rep. Karen Karls, a Bismarck Republican, joined this Plain Talk alongside Bill Robie from the National Bleeding Disorders Foundation, to talk about proposed legislation prohibiting this practice. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive  

Former President Joe Biden spent the last moments of his time in office issuing preemptive pardons to family members and political allies. He also pardoned thousands of people convicted of crimes, often to the bewilderment of judges and prosecutors, including some here in North Dakota. New President Donald Trump, meanwhile, spent the first moments after his inauguration releasing hundreds of people who participated in the violent January 6 attack on Congress which was inspired by his lies about the 2020 election. Mac Schneider has spent the last couple of years working in the justice business. The Justice Department, specifically, as the U.S. Attorney for North Dakota. How does he feel about these pardons? "The folks I work with are incredibly serious about upholding the rule of law," he said on this episode of Plain Talk, adding that the "wreckage" created by many of those pardoned persists even as their accountability disappears at the stroke of a politician's pen. "When you get news of that variety, I think of the victims," he said. "That does hurt." Also on this episode, first-term state Rep. Austin Foss, a Democrat from Fargo, talks about his experiences in his first legislative session, as well as legislation he's proposed that would require employers to give people interested in serving in the legislature a leave of absence. What does Foss think of the Legislature so far? "I'm surprised by the number of Republicans that do want to work with us," he said. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

Participatory politics is what makes our democracy work, but it also supposes that those who are participating are doing so in good faith. How do we handle people who want to use the tools of participation -- things like open records requests and open meetings -- as soap boxes for narcissistic jeremiads? What if the people participating aren't intent on being constructive, but instead are out to just burn everything down (figuratively speaking)? The City of Dickinson will soon hold a special election in which the incumbent, city commissioner Jason Fridrich, who was recalled to the ballot by petitioners, will run unopposed after the leader of the petitioning campaign, a local gadfly prolifically active on social media and in the public comment period at city meetings, chose not to run. This exercise in futility will cost the taxpayers of Dickinson tens of thousands of dollars, and what does it accomplish? Satisfying the ego of a minority faction of malcontents? "I bite my tongue," Dickinson Mayor Scott Decker said on this episode of Plain Talk of his efforts to keep his composure while getting berated during public meetings. "I'm patient," he continued, "but our patience is wearing thin." Decker and his community are struggling with balancing the sort of openness and transparency that allows certain members of the public to verbally abuse elected officials, and accuse them of all manner of perfidy, with the need to just get on with the public's business. Why should members of the public, attending a city meeting to learn about budgets, or taxes, or a zoning issue, be subjected to long-winded tirades that often have little to do with city business? This isn't just a Dickinson problem. Local governing entities across North Dakota -- indeed, across America -- are struggling with these problems. During his interview, Decker offered some fascinating insight on what it all looks like from a seat in local government. Also on this episode, Travis Finck, North Dakota's top public defender, talks about his office's struggles amid funding shortfalls, and his efforts to convince lawmakers to fund his lawyers on par with what prosecutors receive. "Right now we're not worried about a level playing field," Finck told us. "We're not even in the arena. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive

In North Dakota, game and fish officials have the authority to restrict bait hunting in order to protect animals from diseases like chronic wasting disease. And that's what they've been doing. When a case is found in the deer population, they ban the use of bait for hunting in an area 25 miles around it. This has a very vocal faction of the hunting community incensed. Many of them insist that chronic wasting disease is a hoax, or at the every least an exaggerated threat, and they want state officials stripped of the ability regulate bait hunting. There are three versions of bills to do that before lawmakers in Bismarck. Brock Wahl is a fifth-generation North Dakotan and chair of the North Dakota Backcountry Hunters and Anglers organization. On this episode of Plain Talk, he told co-host Chad Oban and I that while regulation of bait hunting hasn't been perfect, it is necessary, and it is protecting state deer populations from CWD. "It's undoutable that this is making a difference," he said. As for the opponents? "I think some of these folks are on a disinformation campaign." Wahl spoke at length about the history of prion diseases like CWD, or other maladies like so-called "mad cow disease, calling them "both vertical and horizontal" threats. Part of what he means by that is CWD can spread to other species. Is that a threat to livestock, which is an important part of North Dakota's economy? Wahl said he didn't want to exaggerate the threat. "I don't know that it's a significant concern," he said. But he argued it's like playing the lottery. The odds may be against it, but buy enough tickets, and eventually you'll have a winner. Wahl said that some opponents of baiting regulation invoke property rights, arguing that they should get to do what they want on their property, but Wahl pointed to Article XI, section 27 of the state constitution, which states, "Hunting, trapping, and fishing and the taking of game and fish are a valued part of our heritage and will be forever preserved for the people and managed by law and regulation for the public good." The property may be privately owned, Wahl said, but the wildlife belongs to everyone. Also on this episode, Chad and I discuss the debate over bills mandating the 10 commandments and the Pledge of Allegiance in our schools, the first hearing over Gov. Kelly Armstrong's property tax proposal, and the debate over the explosion in charitable gaming. This episode is presented by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation. ND Petroleum Foundation provides education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advances quality of life initiatives, and promotes and enhances the conservation heritage of North Dakota.    Learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below. Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive