The Breakout Growth Podcast

Atlassian is the powerhouse behind popular productivity software brands including Jira, Confluence, Bitbucket, and Trello. Their solutions help more than 170,000 businesses, and in this episode of the Breakout Growth Podcast Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr are joined by Atlassian’s Senior Growth Product Manager, Andrea Ho.  Today, Atlassian is one of the most respected and fast-growing companies in the world, but it took some time before the company was able to dial in growth. Andrea says she and many others in Australia have been attracted to this “homegrown unicorn” because the company is always innovating in its quest to create valuable, self-serve, low CAC, affordable enterprise software.   Atlassian has done an artful job of capitalizing on its successes. Building and acquiring valuable products that help customers achieve their goals has helped create a strong brand and a powerful word-of-mouth engine. Andrea’s team is then tasked with the “expansion” part of the company’s “land and expand” growth approach.  They focus on getting clients to adopt Atlassian solutions across the full organization as well as on driving customers from one product within the Atlassian ecosystem to another.   This approach has helped create the company’s enormous value. Atlassian currently has a market cap of over $62 billion and a team of over 5000 employees. But Andrea explains there is always more work to be done, and the team is constantly working to evolve its growth process. So join us as we learn what’s driving Atlassian’s breakout growth success.We discussed: * What’s a growth product manager vs. a product manager? (4:01)* Atlassian’s rise to global success (9:30)* Why having a revenue goal has been a good challenge for Andrea (15:33)* The “why” behind Atlassian’s new North Star Metric (17:25)* Insights into the growth team structure (24:40)* The “land and expand” growth engine (27:52)And much, much, more . . . Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

You likely know Shutterstock as a stock photography company, but in this episode of the Breakout Growth Podcast, we discover that in its 17-year history, Shutterstock has grown into a creative powerhouse that provides everything from motion and special effects to music and full production services. When Jamie Elden joined as Chief Global Revenue Officer the company was positioning itself around its technology, but Jamie who comes from a creative background felt that Shutterstock primarily spoke to creative audiences. To drive sustainable growth, he believed Shutterstock would need to refocus as a creative company. This would require a cultural shift and new efforts to personalize experiences for customers. With an intense focus on speaking to creative people on their terms and making it simpler to engage with Shutterstock at every level, the company thrived through the pandemic. Personalization has become a mainstay of customer interactions, even in the self-service areas of the business. Jamie wants the company to speak to customers as humans, and in this conversation with Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr, he explains how he has worked to make that a reality throughout the global organization. And if you think the role of Chief Revenue Officer is all about numbers, this discussion may very well change your mind. Jamie talks about throwing away the spreadsheets and setting new goals to pivot without process. That is a bold approach for a business with 4,800 employees but it seems to be working. This is one of our favorite episodes. As with our discussion with Noom’s founder and president Artem Petakov and our discussion with Georgia Vidler, Canva’s former Head of Product, this is a conversation that really shows the human side of breakout growth. Enjoy!We discussed: * Jamie’s journey to Shutterstock and what excited him about the opportunity (5:47)* From creative company to creative company, not small business to big business (6:28)* Coping with Covid, thriving through Covid (14:58)* Kickstarting the culture at a large company that was plateauing internally  (18:49)* Simplify, simplify, simplify! (23:45)* Throw away the spreadsheets (31:48)* Bring lessons from Tonik, a small business to Shutterstock  (44:53)* Training for relationships (47:45)And much, much, more . . .  Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

Television advertising used to be the domain of large, Fortune 500-type companies with deep pockets who could afford to invest in channels with low ROI visibility. For startups, TV advertising seemed to be an expensive experiment that would be pretty tough to prove its effectiveness. However, in this episode of the Breakout Growth Podcast with Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr, we find out that things have changed dramatically. TV advertising is now more accessible, trackable, and very scalable if a test yields positive results. To unpack the new potential of this medium we brought Philip Inghelbrecht, co-founder and CEO of Tatari, and Jamie Fontana, Senior Director of e-Commerce at Vuori to the conversation. You may already know Vuori, the fast-growing performance apparel company, and if you do it may be because of their television presence. Tatari executes Vuori’s ad-buying strategy, but Philip, who previously founded Shazam and TruCar, sees his company as a data and analytics company facilitating digital advertising and less as a media buying agency.  As digital streaming is rapidly replacing broadcast television and cable, Philip’s team has developed technologies to unlock systems for measuring, buying, and optimizing television ad spends. Where companies used to face entry points north of $3 million just to test TV advertising, Philip says $100,000 is now a big enough budget to get in the game. For Vuori and even for smaller brands this puts the credibility of TV within reach.  To measure the value of a campaign, companies used to depend on the slow and rudimentary feedback loops of Neilson surveys, but Tatari has developed technology to provide accurate, next-day reporting that brands can use to effectively optimize campaigns. At the same time, the costs and speed of creative development have dropped to more manageable levels making this a much more accessible medium. Vuori’s experience is proof that TV can be an effective channel for growing brands. Jamie explains, “If you have a brand story to tell then TV and streaming are potentially valuable across your entire marketing funnel.” So, if you previously looked at TV as only a brand marketing channel, or a channel out of reach for your business, take a listen and see if this old channel has something new to offer for your business. We discussed: * Why better measurement, more transparent buying, and better creative optimization are now possible (11:45)* The shift that has changed TV into a performance-centric, digital advertising platform (13:15)* Putting TV credibility within reach for smaller brands and businesses, and  Vuori’s growth with TV through the pandemic (14:15)* TV as a viable channel in an “outcome marketing” world (29:12)* Far from dead! The future of cable, broadcast, and streaming opportunities (31:28)And much, much, more . . . Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

The lines between product and growth are often gray, and in this week’s episode of the Breakout Growth Podcast, Sean and Ethan share more about this trend with their guest, JD Millwood, Vice-President of Product at Curve.  Curve is a Fintech company on a mission to simplify the way people spend, send, see and save money. JD describes the Curve debit card as the first over the top platform for banking, and with innovations like the ability to finance purchases you have already made, he and his team seek to create a new and better banking experience for consumers. JD previously held growth roles at Coinbase and Uber, and his role at Curve morphed from growth into product fairly recently. It has been a natural progression, and through this lens, JD sheds great insights into why growth people need to have a degree of ownership over the product to control their own destinies. At Curve, the growth team lives within his product organization, and the coupling of product and growth is a trend Ethan and Sean have been exploring with recent guests from Buffer, Canva, and other fast-growing organizations. The approach is working. Despite huge challenges during the pandemic that put a temporary hold on an aggressive hiring plan, the company still expects to nearly double its headcount from about 330 today to over 600 employees by year’s end. Strong product/market fit continues to drive growth, but JD sees partnerships as Curve’s next big opportunity. Leveraging relationships with company’s like Samsung, the company is able to extend its B2C go-to-market strategy to B2B2C and greatly expand distribution.  With an understanding of how product and growth work together, we dive into Curve’s “helix” team structure where data-driven thinking guides the prioritization of experiments and ensures engineering resources are not wasted on efforts that will not move the North Star Metric. We learn about the company’s growth engine, and how building excitement for users early drives referrals and retention. And we find out how a growth mindset drives great product leadership.  Take a listen. For anyone focused on growth, this is a valuable discussion. We discussed: * A better way of banking in the fragmented world of Fintech (3:45)* Why growth people need to have some control over product (6:30)* How data challenges led to the product/marketing teams formation (9:10)* Why JD saw a huge opportunity at Curve (11:25)* Curve’s dangerous exposure during the pandemic  (17:05)* Partnerships and B2B2C as the next big thing  (19:50)* Structuring for growth (25:50)And much, much, more . . .  Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of the Breakout Growth Podcast, Sean and Ethan have a learning-packed discussion with Pat Kinsel, Notarize’s Founder and CEO. Notarize provides an online service that makes the process of getting documents legally notarized fast and easy. Instead of meeting with a notary public in person, the entire process is managed digitally with integrated online meetings and digital signature technologies. The company’s journey began about 6 years ago when Pat, who had previously sold a business to Twitter, needed to get documents notarized  When errors in the process turned into a stressful and annoying near-disaster, he realized that technology might solve the problem he experienced. But, he also knew he faced an uphill battle on the legal front. With a partner who had government relations experience, he went to work to understand, and in many cases, change the laws related to notarization. Together, they navigated these challenges and discovered massive enterprise demand for a solution. The company began to grow quickly and Pat and his team realized they had a superpower; they could get a call from a new business or industry looking for help with a notarization process, unpack and quickly understand the legal challenges, and adapt their solutions to solve the problem. Then, when the pandemic struck, the service became a must-have for the mortgage, title, and other industries. Now, with 600% year over year growth, and a fresh round of venture capital ($130 million), Pat says the world will never go back to the old ways of solving these problems. Notarize was a far better solution before the pandemic, and the crisis has only served to amplify the need and expand the market. So take a listen, as The Breakout Growth Podcast explorers Notarize’s explosive success. We discussed: * How Pat’s own notarization frustrations drove the inception of the business (5:13)* The massive impact of the pandemic on growth (8:20)* Navigating the legal hurdles to make online notarization possible (8:44)* How the product drew massive enterprise interest (9:30)* The word-of-mouth engine behind Notarize.com’s success(11:15)* How Covid forced Pat and his team to mature their go-to-market strategy (12:00)* “Product/Delivery Fit” (23:22)* The importance of distribution partners in the Notarize.com growth story (34:26)And much, much, more . . .  Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

Recently, we have focused the lens of The Breakout Growth Podcast on the role of product in driving sustainable growth. We had a super-interesting conversation with Georgia Vidler, Canva’s former Head of Product, and this week we picked up that theme with Maria Thomas, Buffer’s Chief Product Officer.  Buffer provides social media tools to facilitate authentic engagement with end-users. Customers can pre-schedule posts on multiple channels, engage with commenters, create reports, and more using the service. Maria is relatively new to the company, having previously served as VP of Product Management at Bitly, so it is interesting to hear her compare and contrast her experiences between these two fast-growing businesses. To Maria, the single biggest growth driver at Buffer has been “brand beyond the product.”  She explains that brand recognition is a tremendously important factor for both Buffer and Bitly, but with different go-to-market strategies Buffer’s brand in the context of its mission is what she sees as the company’s secret sauce. The ability to speak to customers on a deeper mission-focused level has been a key factor in Buffer’s approach, and Maria explains that “Buffer was a product-led growth company even before PLG was cool.” From a product perspective, this has meant putting intense focus on building the user experience to power acquisition, retention, and expansion.   We also learn that the company’s super-transparent culture that embraced remote work long before the pandemic began, has helped drive Buffer’s data-driven test/learn culture. However, it has also created interesting communications challenges along the way. As Maria describes how she has overcome these and other challenges, we get great insights into the world of growth from a product perspective. This is a fun one, enjoy! We discussed: * Getting used to Buffer’s super transparent culture (3:30)* How a well-known brand impacts growth, plus its impact on product (7:35)* Highlighting Bitly vs. Buffer when it comes to go-to-market strategies (7:50)* Key growth factors and challenges in Buffer’s Product Led Growth approach (8:34)* Advantages and challenges of a no-meetings culture and asynchronous communications (13:05)* Working with data; super-important but not a replacement for working with customers (19:41)* Why MAU is the right North Star Metric to drive growth at Buffer (24:28)* Organizational leadership where product and marketing are in constant communications (26:30)* Why Maria believes in a dedicated growth team approach (27:00)And much, much, more . . .  Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

Looking back after you have stepped away from something is often a great way to gain valuable insights, and in this episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast, Sean and Ethan have the unique opportunity to gain retrospective learnings from a conversation with Georgia Vidler, who, until recently, was Canva's Head of Product.  If you are not familiar with Canva, their tagline says it all: “Amazingly simple graphic design software”. With a huge library of templates and a super-intuitive interface, Canva allows non-designers to create high-quality logos, social media ads, infographics, and more to power their businesses. By delivering on that promise, Canva has become Australia’s fastest-growing startup with a reported valuation of over $6 Billion. Georgia has experience in product, marketing, and growth, and through that lens, she describes how Canva’s success took shape. It might surprise you to find out that the company bucked the “Lean Startup” convention and didn’t build a simple MVP, and when Georgia talks about data, you may find it refreshing when she explains that while she very much believes in metrics, she also feels that not everything that is worth doing is measurable. Her perspective reminds us that there is very little prescription in growth, but lots of inspiration! Canva wants to be “the Google of design one day,” says Georgia and she believes the company is well on its way with a philosophy that puts customer happiness before revenue, and a structure that is constantly evolving to meet the demands of a fast-growing business.  While Canva may not be formulaic in its approach, she describes a culture that is systematic and intentional and focused on learning and growth.  In this conversation, we walk through each component of Canva’s growth engine, gaining insights into how a cross-functional approach to improvements connects each piece of the business. We also see a great example of a North Star Metric helping to unify individuals and teams towards a common mission.  So join us as Georgia Vidler takes a “look back” at her amazing journey to Head of Product at Canva. We discussed: * Georgia’s backstory from working in an incubator to heading product at Canva (3:28)  * How the product “felt delightful” and “made with love” and why that matters (9:31)* Why Canva did not build a simple MVP (12:01)* How using the product every day drives team member contributions (19:01)* Metrics: they are not one-size-fits-all, or the be-all-end-all of growth (20:22)* Happy Active Users - a North Star Metric that puts users in focus (23:05)* Planning in seasons, not quarters (30:38)* Deep diving into Canva’s Growth Engine (36:30) Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

“Ultimately, what it meant was we had to figure out ways we could resonate with an older audience . . . Stop talking to 18-year-olds and start talking to 50-year-olds!"  This turned out to be a key, data-driven learning for Bradley Fehler, Echo’s Head of Growth, and fortunately, he and his team started to figure this out before 2020 brought unexpected and explosive growth. Brad joins Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr on this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast to share Echo’s story of growing into England’s leading online pharmacy. The journey began when the company’s two co-founders faced different health problems and saw an opportunity to create a mobile app to meet an unsatisfied need. For many, a trip to the pharmacy is just one of life’s minor inconveniences, but for some getting their medication is a matter of life and death. Before Covid, the business was growing well. The company had found ways to help consumers solve problems of adherence by creating a simple three-step process to get users to their first prescription delivery and then by optimizing notifications and reminders to ensure those same users were taking their doses and ordering refills as needed. But then Covid hit, and the company’s patient-base doubled in just three weeks.   Brad explains the operational challenges of meeting that demand, and the mission-driven decisions the company made to ensure successful patient experiences.  At one point the company actually paused acquisition efforts just so everyone in the organization could focus on helping customers get their medications. Echo is a business that depends on patient trust, and one late delivery could shatter that relationship.  The company takes this responsibility very seriously. So dive in with Sean and Ethan as The Breakout Growth Podcast looks to uncover key growth learnings with Bradley Fehler, Echo’s Head of Growth. We discussed: * A mission to deliver the medications people need to get better or stay well (3:21)  * Anxiety and Asthma, the co-founder’s journey that led to Echo (4:51)  * Why Brad was excited to join a company with a patient-led approach (8:40)  * Growth to nearly 400,000 patients, accelerated by the pandemic (12:01)  * McKesson’s acquisition of Echo in June 2019 and its impact (16:34)  * Driving profitability by talking to the right audiences (17:50)  * Organizing for growth and using a North Star Metric (25:29)  * Word of Mouth Growth efforts with regulatory challenges (36:03)  And much, much, more . . .   Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

Slip on your Oculus headset and FitXR will get your heart rate up. They are combining gaming, fitness, and virtual reality together to create immersive experiences where users can go dancing or jump into a boxing ring. The immersive part seems to really be working! “There have been some mishaps,” laughs Product Lead, Nejc Skoberne. “A few of our community members shared pictures of holes they accidentally punched in their walls.” Nejc is excited, because FitXR is on an accelerating growth trajectory, in a growing marketplace where the rules are yet to be written. Virtual reality is still very much in its infancy. Players like FitXR must deal with the challenges of a relatively small hardware-driven ecosystem, but they also benefit from rapid innovation and new opportunities constantly emerging in this space. While the playbook has yet to be written, Nejc and the team are driving growth by learning from data and tapping into an enthusiastic community of users. In our conversation, Nejc explains that virtual reality today is at a stage very similar to that of the early days of the mobile app industry. A few key hardware players like Oculus, Sony, and Steam are setting the framework. That means FitXR cannot easily offer a subscription model today and has to rely on one-off purchases. That’s a challenge in a world where Peloton and Mirror, and other at-home fitness systems have emerged, but those limitations also drive the team to focus and innovate within those constraints. By the end of the discussion co-hosts Sean Ellis and Ethan Garr both wanted to try out the virtual boxing game, so take a listen and join us as we find out how FitXR is working to drive sustainable growth. We discussed: * What is FitXR? Think of products like Peloton reimagined for the virtual world (7:25)  * Why boxing and VR? How the founders came up with this innovation (9:18)  * Fitness, gaming, or a combination of both? (12:07)  * Challenges and opportunities in the emerging VR-hardware ecosystem (13:59)  * Growth as people were forced to stay home (15:20)  * What VR today has in common with the early days of the App Store (18:51)  * The emergence of communities and how they drive growth (19:40)  * When there is no playbook for growth, focus on end-user value (23:50)  * Putting data to work and using Amplitude to drive learnings (27:40)  * Subscriptions are not yet possible, FitXR’s business model today (33:20)  * Winning with Product/Market Fit (38:20)  And much, much, more . . . Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe

Few industries have been hit harder by Covid-19 than gyms, but despite the lockdowns and forced closures, many have actually weathered the storm. In this week’s episode of The Breakout Growth Podcast, we will find out how one company helped make that possible, and why their growth approach was crucial in supporting clients through these turbulent times. Daan Bakker is VirtuaGym’s VP of Growth and in our conversation, he explains that the company started with an app, and grew into an all-in-one tool that helps gyms and trainers navigate everything from scheduling to workout plans. Many of those tools would have been useless if Covid closed their client’s doors and disconnected members from their gyms. But VirtuaGym had been growing internationally with 50 - 100% YoY returns for a reason. They were quick to innovate and whether it meant helping gyms schedule Zoom workouts, or building interactive connections between trainers and clients, they were up to the task. Daan also spun up the company’s FitNation podcasts and webinars, which focus on helping fitness entrepreneurs find the tools and approaches to move forward and grow through Covid. These pivots have all been about putting the focus on VirtuaGym’s clients (and their client’s customers) and that has helped drive growth in the face of adversity. A big part of that has been the growth team’s unique ability to influence fast change within the organization.Daan says when he joined the company had many functional silos, but the more he and his team interjected themselves and found ways to show results, the more effective they have been in driving cross-functional success. We discussed: * How VirtuaGym looks to deliver on a promise to make fitness professional’s lives easier by automating everything in one place (2:34) * Why success means not just helping customers, but helping their customers too (6:45) * How the founders’ story and the company’s original app-based approach developed (7:02) * Compliance and Covid-19; how VirtuaGym became an integral link for gyms and trainers (9:25) * Spinning up the FitNation Webinars and Podcasts to help the community navigate the crisis (13:20) * The future of gyms beyond the pandemic (16:00) * VirtuaGym’s successful SaaS model growth (22:55) * The Growth Team’s critical role as the “oil’ between departments (29:25) * How bringing value in growth became a powerful tool in breaking down silos (37:47)  And much, much, more . . . Get full access to Growth with Sean Ellis at seanellis.substack.com/subscribe