Scaling Up: Lessons From The World's Best CEOs and Founders

Welcome to the fifth season of "Scaling Up"! Expect an ecclectic mix of incredible Australian growth stories, told by their founders and CEOs. Some of the episodes are with businesses at the earlier stages of their scaling up journey, as well as a few of Australia’s largest listed businesses. Regardless of scale, or business model, there are some common scaling pain points, and we try again to uncover how these leaders have overcome them. Like our last series, we also have a little mini series, this time lasering in on the role of Chief People Officer and what scaling great cultures looks like.  To kick off though, we have two episodes featuring two of Australis’s brightest venture backed consumer finance companies. By releasing them side by side, it should be easier for listeners to compare and contrast the lessons in similar business models.  The first, is Athena Home loans, and our interview with the founders Nathan Walsh and Michael Starkey.  Founded in 2017 and launched two years later, Athena has already funded over $3.5b of home loans in Australia on the simple premise of allowing for fast, simple, transparent and cost effective digital loans. The home loan market in Australia is massive as you can imagine, and crucially controlled by the four legacy banks. The banks though are having some of their lunch eaten by the non-bank lenders, of which Athena is at the top of the list.  To enable Athena to scale rapidly in a highly regulated environment, Nathan and Michael from day one realised that talent was the most important element to their, and built a crack team of leaders who could scale from start up, right through the scale up journey. The conversation covers a heap of ground – from scaling a consumer brand, to finding competitive advantages in their cost of capital on the lending side of the business, as well as some hot topics around remote versus in-office work as we come out of covid-19 restrictions.  These two are high functioning and thoughtful in everything they do, and this translates into some wonderful insights for founders, management teams and casual listeners alike.  You can follow TDM (linktr.ee/tdmgrowth) and host Ed Cowan (linktr.ee/eddiecowan) across social channels. Show notes;  Founding story (4:00)  The original vision for Athena (4:30)  Why the 'talent first' strategy (8:45)  Overview of the Australian homeloans market (10:40)  Building bands and scaling acquisition costs (14:00)  Biggest difficulty on consumer side of the bussiness in terms of scaling business (16:33)  Processing power and scaling a range of products for consumers - what is Act 2? (19:12)  Funding model and value proposition for funders (23:25)  Trying to scale the funding side of the business (26:30)  Being a culture first business (28:10)  Concept of a cultural balance sheet (32:50)  Heading back into the office and working remotely (36:13)  The importance of the role of the Chief People Officer (40:10)  Biggest scaling challenge when it comes to culture (43:05)  What does success look like over the next 5 years and what are the hurdles to overcome to achieve this (45:10)

Abhishek Gupta is the co-Founder of Circles Life, Asia’s first fully digital telco. Everything a Circles customer experiences is completely online, bringing the same level of sophistication to the telco world that consumers enjoy in many other walks of life, such as their food delivery or ride sharing.  Circles is currently kicking off its second act. Having penetrated Asia initially with it direct to consumer telco offering, they soon realised that their in house technology stack could be rolled out for other telcos to use, and have now started to offer a B2B SaaS platform to enable this. This is an interesting vertical playbook to be running, and we dig into Abhi’s vision of where this may lead.  This is a wonderful deep dive into the challenges and advantages of scaling a company in Southeast Asia, as well as giving insight into the technology eco system more generally.  Raised in India, Abhi is a true high performer, a wonderful leader and someone who is trying to disrupt one of the largest markets in the world. You would not want to bet against his success.  You can follow TDM (linktr.ee/tdmgrowth) and host Ed Cowan (linktr.ee/eddiecowan) across social channels. Show notes; Growing up in India (00:03:11)  Skills Abhishek learned from his years in consulting (00:05:01)  Circles Life founding story (00:07:14)  The tailwinds of the telecommunications sector in South-East Asia (00:09:49)  The insights that had developed as to how Circles Life was going to disrupt the legacy telcos and why the customer-centricity was so important (00:10:48)  What led Circles Life to make the transition to  B2B from B2C (00:15:52)  What the telco industry could look like in 10 years (00:17:58)  Insight into the technology scene in South-East Asia (00:21:56)  Circles Life culture and how it has evolved (28:09)  Circles Life’s culture as a competitive advantage (31:13)  The value of an employee ownership plan (33:12)  How Abhishek’s job has evolved over time (34:45)  Having a personal board of directors (36:59)  The power of story-telling (39:59)  How Abhishek thinks about adversity (42:32)

David Obstler, CFO of Datadog, a $30 billion tech powerhouse, shares invaluable insights from 25 years of scaling fast-growing companies. He discusses the evolution of the CFO role from financial oversight to a key strategic partner for the CEO. David emphasizes the significance of trust, collaboration, and effective communication in fostering sustainable growth. He also dives into the intricacies of investor relations and the pivotal role a strong board plays in steering a company toward success. Expect golden nuggets of wisdom throughout!

The first episode in this mini series is Jill Woodworth, the CFO of Peloton (NASDAQ:PTON). Since 2018, when Jill joined, Peleton has been on a hyper scale journey – she took the reins of the finance function when the business was a private, $200m revenue company. In under 4 years since then, it is now a $4b revenue business listed on the NASDAQ.  The next two episodes are moving the spotlight away from the CEO and Founder to their most important partner in the business, the CFO. You can liken the role of the CFO to that of a navigator on a ship – charged with the responsibility of charting the course, tracking the journey and ensuring hazards are avoided along the way. CFO is often the most underestimated piece of the scaling puzzle, and why we felt the need to finally shine a spotlight on them.  Jill gives some fascinating views into her transition out of investment banking, scaling her team from 12 to 200, working with a passionate founder, as well as what in her opinion makes for good investor relations. We also traverse  the work that goes into preparing a company for an IPO. All these give deeply valuable insights into what it takes to scale quickly and effectively.  This mini series was inspired by a blog post that TDM produced last year - “What makes a great CFO” and I hope this podcast episode brings this blog to life.  You can follow TDM (linktr.ee/tdmgrowth) and host Ed Cowan (linktr.ee/eddiecowan) across social channels. Show notes; Jill’s background in banking and then transition into her role as CFO at Peloton (00:03:32)  Including the skills that were transferrable to the CFO role from her banking experience and the skills she felt she needed to develop (00:7:22)  How Jill’s leadership style has evolved as the company has undergone hypergrowth (00:11:01)  The elevation of the role of the CFO within an organisation (00:13:47)  Skills that make for great CFOs (00:15:40)  Jill’s relationship with Peloton Founder & CEO, John Foley: (00:18:06)  How has John’s leadership style changed over time (00:21:31)  The role of the CFO in creating wonderful IR (23:35)  TDM blog 'What makes great IR'  (00:26:15)  Insight into transitioning Peloton from private to public (00:27:02)  Including how this changed Jill’s job (00:30:37) This podcast is created and published for informational and entertainment purposes only. It is not financial advice. Transcripts may contain occasional errors in fact.

Ethan Berman, was the CEO and founder of the NYSE listed Risk Metrics, until it was bought by MSCI in 2010 for US$1.55b. RiskMetrics, which was spun off from JP Morgan Chase in 1998 and became the market leader in risk management software systems. We need to transport ourselves back to the late 90s – a time of floppy disk distribution and only a handful of pioneer SaaS companies. From writing plays in Paris, Ethan ran one of the fastest companies, software or otherwise, anywhere in the world during one of the most interesting modern decades, spanning both the dotcom crash at the turn of the decade and the GFC just 8 years later.  Few have had Harvard Business School case study written about them, nor received a letter from Warren Buffet commending him in his remuneration philosophy. Ethan is a private person, and so the opportunity to interview him was a tremendous honour. TDM was an investor in RiskMetrics back in the day, and Ethan’s view of the world – from remuneration to fundraising - has shaped our own views more than any other singular force. After this, we hope you will see why.  You can follow TDM (linktr.ee/tdmgrowth) and host Ed Cowan (linktr.ee/eddiecowan) across social channels. Show Notes; Articles and documents mentioned in this episode HBS Case Study on RMG Ethan's Letter to the Board to pay him less - full version NYT article relating to Ethan's leaked letter to the board  Sadly the letter from Warren Buffett is not publicly available Ethan’s journey from playwriting in Paris to being the founder and CEO of RiskMetrics (00:03:38)  The difficulty of spinning a software company out of a huge global investment bank (00:07:53)  Creativity in starting a business (00:11:15)  The changing role of the CEO in fast growing company (00:14:36)  How Ethan’s leadership style changed over time (00:19:40)  The hiring process at RiskMetrics and assessing culture fit (00:22:30)  Transition from private-market CEO to public market CEO (00:26:28)  How Ethan view and dealt with crises at Riskmetrics (00:30:05)  The appropriate level of transparency (00:34:30)  Becoming a bad news organisation (00:35:11)  How Ethan viewed remuneration (00:38:10)  RiskMetrics’ approach to options (00: 43:27)  The philosophy behind RiskMetrics only raising ordinary equity (00:45:55)  Ethan’s view on M&A (00:49:22)  What led Ethan to sell the business (00:53:45)  Does Ethan regret that RiskMetrics did not change the way risk was measured in the world after the GFC (00:59:18)  Ethan’s new project, i2learning (1:01:05)

Howard Lerman is the CEO and co-founder of Yext (NYSE:YEXT) a US$360m revenue business that is listed on the New York Stock Exchange.  Maybe listeners have had interactions with Yext and never known it. Every time you google a business, or ask Siri a question, the up to date information is being powered by the Yext platform. We all know of that terrible customer experience of getting misinformation – like googling opening times for example, only to turn up and the shop or your favourite restaurant is closed. Digital knowledge management across platforms is what has built Yext into the business it is today. But this is only the first act - letting brands take control of their information via search and ensuring they are the ultimate source of truth is where Yext’s next act lies.  Howard  is peerless in his entrepreneurial spirit, an entertainer with an infectious optimism. But this does not hide his deep strategy ability to see an opportunity and run at it with all of his energy. Above all else, this episode will shed some light on all the scaling challenges that get thrown along the journey from start up hustle to the life of a NYSE listed company.  This podcast sets out to share  the secret sauce of great business leaders – if you enjoy this episode, why not share it with someone who you think might gain benefit – whether as a source of inspiration or to pass through a nugget of advice. TDM Growth Partners also share a great deal of content on their own website and blog pages, and they too can be a wonderful resource for executives and leaders of all businesses sizes.  You can follow TDM (linktr.ee/tdmgrowth) and host Ed Cowan (linktr.ee/eddiecowan) across social channels.   Link to Steve Cakebread's book - "The IPO Playbook" Show notes: Howard’s upbringing and entrepreneurial background (00:03:23)  Pivoting from SME to enterprise (00:11:49) How Answers was developed (00:15:01)  How to drive change in consumer behaviour for search (21:34) The operating changes required to cater for greater technology needs in search (24:00) Howard’s transition as a CEO from founder to running a listed business (00:26:36) When is the right time to bring in the “pros” to build the systems at scale (00:29:03) Howard’s relationship with Yext CFO, Steve Cakebread (00:32:23) - link to Steve's book above Response to Covid (00:37:20) How to balance being a visionary founder with quarterly reporting (00:39:01) Raising money at fair valuations (00:39:33) Interacting with investors (00:41:17) Brand impact of being a public company (00:42:44) This podcast is created and published for informational and entertainment only. It is not financial advice. Transcripts may contain occasional errors in fact. 

Therese Tucker is the founder, former CEO and current Executive Chair of the NASDAQ Listed, $6b market cap business Blackline Inc. (NASDAQ:BL) Therese is a pioneer in every sense - an inspiring woman who has written her own script at every point in her career. As a 40 year old single mum of 2, she decided to bootstrap an enterprise software company - building Blackline over the next 20 years into what is is today – the market leader in automation solutions for finance and accounting teams that is trusted by 60% of the Fortune 50, and a third of the Fortune 500.   The complexity that these huge businesses face closing their books is mindboggling. By solving these needs, Blackline’s customer love has driven growth to nearly $400m in revenue, and it has its eyes firmly on the billion dollar mark. As one of the very few female founders to have ever rung the bell at the Nasdaq, Therese has a unique perspective on a range of scaling issues – from the deep pains of bootstrapping to preparing for an IPO, this conversation is wide ranging as it is important, also covering themes as building diversity in the workplace. From Illinois farm girl, to listed CEO, this is a story to be enjoyed by all.  You can follow TDM ( linktr.ee/tdmgrowth) and host Ed Cowan (linktr.ee/eddiecowan) across social channels.  Show notes:  Therese’s upbringing: (00:02:54)  Therese’s first experience with computers: (00:04:06)  How Blackline got started: (00:08:00)  Funding your own business: (00:11:08)  What Therese loves about SaaS: (00:14:41)  Blackline’s transition from on-premise to the cloud: (00:15:25)  The curveball of a a former employee becoming a competitor and pitching to their customers (00:17:50)  The importance of having more than one player to validate the market: (00:18:46)  Value of having enterprise sales lead to scale the business: (00:19:45)  The challenge and complexity of shifting from on-premise to the cloud: (00:21:11)  Blackline’s lead up to IPO: (00:23:35)  The importance of an experienced and strategic CFO: (00:30:20)  Blackline’s culture as it has evolved over time: (00:32:24)  Being based in LA: (00:34:53)  Creating a diverse workplace: (00:36:04)  The changing nature of the role of the CEO: (00:39:02)  How Therese let go of the CEO position: (00:40:59)  How Blackline reacted to COVID: (00:43:18)  Therese’s advice to her younger self: (00:46:31) *Disclaimer: This podcast is created and published for informational and entertainment purposes only. It is not financial advice. Transcripts may contain occasional errors in fact.

Welcome back for another series of Scaling Up. Season 4 will again explore some of the great growth stories from around the world. To kick off Series 4 is the the CEO and co-founder of Braze, Bill Magnuson – one of the world’s hottest technology companies. Based in New York, Braze is a customer engagement platform that works with some some huge brands and businesses like Gap, Deliveroo, The NBA and Canva to deliver real time and personalised messaging across platforms From a serendipitous meeting on a NYC street crossing, Bill and his co-founders set out to build an enduring company based on the premise that mobile technology was going to fundamentally change the world. With vision and purpose, Braze has grown into the gold standard, tool of choice for innovative marketers. While customer love has driven success, building great product requires building and supporting great teams, and this is where Braze has excelled. Bill is a rare type of software CEO – deeply humble, highly technically proficient and possesses  the softer people skills required to execute on the visionary strategy and inspire the rapidly growing team. If this is the first time you have heard of Braze, rest assured it won’t be the last. This business is a next generational category leader in the making. I hope you enjoy this episode with Bill Magnuson. You can follow TDM ( linktr.ee/tdmgrowth) and host Ed Cowan (linktr.ee/eddiecowan) across social channels. Show notes -  Bill’s background (0:02:27); Braze’s founding story (0:04:26); The rise of mobile (0:08:05); How Braze has been used by brands to drive engagement (0:10:23) What the future of customer engagement is going to look like (0:18:52) The technology behind Braze (0:22:21) Including the difference between batch processing and string processing (22:29) The transition from CTO to CEO (0:27:58) How Braze has scaled its culture (0:32:03) The advantages of having headquarters in New York (0:35:42) The value of having operators on the board (0:37:47) Bill’s experience of sitting on a board (0:40:32) The role that venture has played in Braze (0:43:41) The importance of balance in Bill’s life (0:48:08)

A very special guest rounds out Season 3, with many listeners very familiar with Hamish, Magellan, their investment philosophy and sustained success.  People's minds will always drift to how good an investor Hamish is having compounded capital at high rates of return for 15 years, it is perhaps easy to ignore what an incredible business Magellan itself is, having scaled from humble beginnings to now being a ASX 100 listed company with a market cap of over $10b. This was not by accident but rather design, with he business set up from day one with scale in mind. This is an episode intertwines Hamish’s reflections as an investor with how that has shaped his views as a business operator – from strategic insight and building competitive advantages, to scaling people and cultures.  We hope you enjoy one of the most successful Australian scaling stories of this century – the story of Magellan Financial

Robbie Cooke is one of Australia’s most experienced CEOs – having seen 'big' in his time as CEO of Tatts as well as entrepreneurial and fast growing in his previous role at Wotif.com. Robbie of is now the CEO of the $2b Tyro Payments, which listed on the ASX last year as the second biggest technology listing ever in the history of the exchange. We cover a range of topics in this conversation – from how he thinks about innovation as a professional CEO, to brilliant insight into how to best prepare for an IPO. Robbie also gives great colour to how best a board and the management team should interact and the importance of a culturally aligned board. This is a wonderful deep dive into the thoughts of a CEO reflecting on all his experiences and at the top of his game, all delivered with the laid back humbleness that those who have followed Robbie’s career know all to well. This podcast is created and published for informational and entertainment purposes only. It is not financial advice. Transcripts may contain occasional errors in fact.