

Say More
The Boston Globe
Big ideas and big debates, explained through intimate conversations with the compelling personalities who shape them. AI and biotech. Higher education and health care. Climate and sustainability. Politics and the media. Culture and culture wars. Hosted by Boston Globe columnist Shirley Leung.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Sep 25, 2025 • 24min
Steven Pinker to Harvard: Don't be a hero. Negotiate with Trump.
President Donald Trump wants Harvard to cough up at least $500 million. Longtime Harvard professor Steven Pinker says it's extortion. And Harvard should do it anyway. Globe columnist Carine Hajjar, filling in for host Shirley Leung, talks to Steven Pinker about caving to the Trump administration and where to draw the line. Email us at saymore@globe.com.

Sep 18, 2025 • 22min
"Succession" New England style: inside the Market Basket drama
The Market Basket board of directors fired its CEO, 'Artie T.' Demoulas, on September 9th after a very public - and very nasty - succession battle. Host Shirley Leung and Globe Business Reporter Jon Chesto get into the messy family dynamics and how other New England business dynasties manage to make it work. Email us at saymore@globe.com.
Check out more about the detailed family history of Market Basket on The Globe:https://www.bostonglobe.com/multimedia/audio/podcast/globe-podcast/

Sep 11, 2025 • 18min
Is Michelle Wu What Democrats Need?
Boston Mayor Michelle Wu trounced challenger Josh Kraft in Tuesday’s preliminary election for Boston mayor. What makes Wu so successful? And can she be a model for Democrats nationally? Say More host Shirley Leung talks to Boston Globe politics reporter Emma Platoff and columnist Joan Vennochi about the ‘Trump effect’ on the mayoral election. Email us at saymore@globe.com.

Sep 4, 2025 • 30min
Leslie Forde on ways moms can beat burnout
It's perhaps never been more exhausting to be a mom. In her book, "Repair with Self-Care: Your Guide to the Mom's Hierarchy of Needs" author Leslie Forde calls on moms to find to put themselves first and prioritize their own health and well being, even when things are busy.
Leslie Forde joins host Shirley Leung on today's episode of Say More.

Aug 28, 2025 • 40min
Say More Presents: The Outlaw Ocean "A Team of Journalists at Gunpoint"
Today, we’re bringing you the third and final installment of The Outlaw Ocean podcast’s investigation into the shadowy work of the Libyan Coast Guard. The podcast looks into efforts to capture and detain migrants crossing the Mediterranean Sea in the hopes of a new life in Europe.
This week’s episode describes how members of the Outlaw Ocean team were arrested and detained in Libya while they were investigating its network of migrant prisons.
If you like what you’ve heard over the last three weeks, you can check out the rest of Outlaw Ocean’s new season wherever you get podcasts.
You can learn more about the work of Outlaw Ocean Project here: https://theoutlawocean.com/podcast

Aug 21, 2025 • 51min
Say More Presents: The Outlaw Ocean "A Place ‘Worse Than Hell’
More than 50 million people make their living working offshore on the two-thirds of our planet covered by water.
Today, we’re bringing you episode two from the second season of “The Outlaw Ocean,” a podcast from the Outlaw Ocean Project, a journalism non-profit that investigates human rights, forced labor, and environmental concerns on our planet's seas.
Today’s episode picks up where last week’s episode left off, so if you missed that one, we encourage you to go back and give it a listen.
You can learn more about the work of Outlaw Ocean Project here: https://theoutlawocean.com/podcast

Aug 14, 2025 • 31min
Say More Presents: The Outlaw Ocean "A War on Migration, Funded by the EU"
More than 50 million people make their living working offshore on two-thirds of our planet covered by water.
The non-profit Outlaw Ocean Project is dedicated to exploring human rights violations, forced labor, and environmental problems that plague the world’s oceans. Over the next few weeks, we’re bringing you a three-part story from the second season of The Outlaw Ocean podcast.
Today, in part 1, Outlaw Ocean explores the efforts of the Libyan Coast Guard to capture migrants crossing the Mediterranean to Europe, and the secretive prisons holding those who are caught.
You can learn more about the work of Outlaw Ocean Project here: https://theoutlawocean.com/podcast

Aug 7, 2025 • 30min
Viet Thanh Nguyen on writing as the other
It wasn’t long ago that finding an Asian American novelist in a local bookstore felt like finding a rare flower. Today, the options overflow.
Viet Thanh Nguyen was on the leading edge of that wave. His first novel, The Sympathizer, won the Pulitzer Prize in 2016. Since then he has written a sequel, a collection of short stories, books for children, and a book about the Vietnam War. He’s also become an important public intellectual, promoting the work of immigrant and minority writers, and advocating for Palestinian rights.
Today on Say More, editor Jim Dao is joined by Viet Thanh Nguyen for a discussion about his recent works and the role of the writer in times of political turmoil.

Jul 31, 2025 • 30min
Young men are betting big on sports gambling
In 2018, the Supreme Court struck down a law that banned sports betting, and ushered in a new era of gambling.
Sports betting has become a multi-billion dollar industry. It’s as ubiquitous as it is lucrative.
In his new book “Losing Big: America’s Reckless Bet on Sports Gambling” Jonathan Cohen argues that the rise of online sports betting, fueled by the convenience of mobile phones, is leading to an out-of-control industry that puts the health of young men at risk.
Today, author Jonathan Cohen joins Shirley Leung to discuss gambling and public health.

Jul 24, 2025 • 28min
Rep. Jake Auchincloss on the future of Democrats
Democrats are at a crossroads. According to recent polling from CNN, just 28% of Americans view the party favorably. The lowest rating in the poll’s 30-plus year history.
Critics say the party lacks vision, and fails to connect with voters. Some say, the party is out of touch. Others believe it’s simply gone too far to the left. But there are new voices looking to dictate a path forward for Democrats, as they work to gain back trust of centrist and working class voters, and seats in Congress heading into next year’s midterm election.
Some want to double down on the progressive direction of the party. Others are calling for a return to the center and a new vision for working voters to rally around.
Rep. Jake Auchincloss represents Massachusetts' 4th district in Washington. Today, he joins guest host Carine Hajjar for a discussion about his vision for the future of the Democratic Party.