

Say More
The Boston Globe
Big ideas and big debates, explained through intimate conversations with the compelling personalities who shape them. AI and biotech. Higher education and health care. Climate and sustainability. Politics and the media. Culture and culture wars. Hosted by Boston Globe columnist Shirley Leung.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Oct 16, 2025 • 28min
Tylenol, Autism, and Mom Blame.
The exact causes of autism are unknown - but you wouldn’t know that from listening to President Trump and his health secretary RFK Jr., who recently announced Tylenol was to blame. The science behind the announcement is not solid - but more troublingly, it falls into an old pattern of blaming mothers for autism, which creates a culture of stigma, says Maura Sullivan, CEO of The Arc of Massachusetts, an advocacy group for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities. Maura has two sons with autism, so this issue is very personal for her. She talks to Say More host Shirley Leung about her own two sons on the spectrum. Email us at saymore@globe.com.

Oct 9, 2025 • 25min
The MFA is Changing its America Wing - Hope Trump Doesn’t Mind!
The Boston Museum of Fine Arts has announced a major reshuffle of its American Revolutionary War galleries. The goal, it says, is to tell an ‘inclusive’ story of America’s founding. Meanwhile, in Washington, President Trump has threatened the Smithsonian over similar moves. Globe editorial page editor Jim Dao talks to Ethan Lasser, curator of American Art at the MFA, about the museum’s plans and the threat of government censorship. Email us at saymore@globe.com.

Oct 2, 2025 • 29min
RERUN: The C-Word: Let’s talk about cancer – starting with my own.
This is a re-run of the first episode of our series "The C-Word" which originally aired May 1, 2025.
Boston Globe columnist Shirley Leung is generally open about her personal life. But this is the first time she is talking publicly about her own experience with breast cancer. She was treated in Boston hospitals and underwent a mastectomy. Like so many others, she will spend the rest of her life getting tested to make sure she stays cancer-free. In this first episode of The C-Word: Stories of Cancer, Shirley talks about the things that surprised her about cancer, and the ways the disease changed her. Email us at saymore@globe.com.

Sep 25, 2025 • 24min
Steven Pinker to Harvard: Don't be a hero. Negotiate with Trump.
President Donald Trump wants Harvard to cough up at least $500 million. Longtime Harvard professor Steven Pinker says it's extortion. And Harvard should do it anyway. Globe columnist Carine Hajjar, filling in for host Shirley Leung, talks to Steven Pinker about caving to the Trump administration and where to draw the line. Email us at saymore@globe.com.

Sep 18, 2025 • 22min
"Succession" New England style: inside the Market Basket drama
The Market Basket board of directors fired its CEO, 'Artie T.' Demoulas, on September 9th after a very public - and very nasty - succession battle. Host Shirley Leung and Globe Business Reporter Jon Chesto get into the messy family dynamics and how other New England business dynasties manage to make it work. Email us at saymore@globe.com.
Check out more about the detailed family history of Market Basket on The Globe:https://www.bostonglobe.com/multimedia/audio/podcast/globe-podcast/

Sep 11, 2025 • 18min
Is Michelle Wu What Democrats Need?
Boston Mayor Michelle Wu trounced challenger Josh Kraft in Tuesday’s preliminary election for Boston mayor. What makes Wu so successful? And can she be a model for Democrats nationally? Say More host Shirley Leung talks to Boston Globe politics reporter Emma Platoff and columnist Joan Vennochi about the ‘Trump effect’ on the mayoral election. Email us at saymore@globe.com.

Sep 4, 2025 • 30min
Leslie Forde on ways moms can beat burnout
It's perhaps never been more exhausting to be a mom. In her book, "Repair with Self-Care: Your Guide to the Mom's Hierarchy of Needs" author Leslie Forde calls on moms to find to put themselves first and prioritize their own health and well being, even when things are busy.
Leslie Forde joins host Shirley Leung on today's episode of Say More.

Aug 28, 2025 • 40min
Say More Presents: The Outlaw Ocean "A Team of Journalists at Gunpoint"
Today, we’re bringing you the third and final installment of The Outlaw Ocean podcast’s investigation into the shadowy work of the Libyan Coast Guard. The podcast looks into efforts to capture and detain migrants crossing the Mediterranean Sea in the hopes of a new life in Europe.
This week’s episode describes how members of the Outlaw Ocean team were arrested and detained in Libya while they were investigating its network of migrant prisons.
If you like what you’ve heard over the last three weeks, you can check out the rest of Outlaw Ocean’s new season wherever you get podcasts.
You can learn more about the work of Outlaw Ocean Project here: https://theoutlawocean.com/podcast

Aug 21, 2025 • 51min
Say More Presents: The Outlaw Ocean "A Place ‘Worse Than Hell’
More than 50 million people make their living working offshore on the two-thirds of our planet covered by water.
Today, we’re bringing you episode two from the second season of “The Outlaw Ocean,” a podcast from the Outlaw Ocean Project, a journalism non-profit that investigates human rights, forced labor, and environmental concerns on our planet's seas.
Today’s episode picks up where last week’s episode left off, so if you missed that one, we encourage you to go back and give it a listen.
You can learn more about the work of Outlaw Ocean Project here: https://theoutlawocean.com/podcast

Aug 14, 2025 • 31min
Say More Presents: The Outlaw Ocean "A War on Migration, Funded by the EU"
More than 50 million people make their living working offshore on two-thirds of our planet covered by water.
The non-profit Outlaw Ocean Project is dedicated to exploring human rights violations, forced labor, and environmental problems that plague the world’s oceans. Over the next few weeks, we’re bringing you a three-part story from the second season of The Outlaw Ocean podcast.
Today, in part 1, Outlaw Ocean explores the efforts of the Libyan Coast Guard to capture migrants crossing the Mediterranean to Europe, and the secretive prisons holding those who are caught.
You can learn more about the work of Outlaw Ocean Project here: https://theoutlawocean.com/podcast