Do you practice test-driven development or feel left out of the "cool-kids" club of folks that swear testing is a necessity to develop quality code? We discuss our history with testing, how we haven't always used it, the struggle to learn it, and how everyone tests, regardless of the method chosen.

Don's firm recently underwent its first major platform upgrade and we discuss the various ways they prepared, tested, and worked through the changes, all the way up to the dreaded "point of no return."

We discuss the state of development around iPhone and Android development, mainly with using non-native code bases. Randy makes valid complaints about Apple. Don wonders why he isn't allowed to complain about Apple. The subjects of ReactNative, JavaScript, Flutter, Dart, Swift, Java, and Objective-C are discussed, including how Steve Jobs envisioned the Progressive Web App, yet money changed Apple's focus towards native development. Please leave a rating for This Old App on iTunes! https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/this-old-app/id1370196401

Elon Musk discusses the personal toll of running multiple companies. Leadership and leading-by-extremes are explored. The podcast also touches on college football coaches, hydration during practice, building React Native code for Apple, teaching algorithms, the trade-off between career and family, burnout and leadership, and the importance of strong leadership and addressing burnout.

Don runs into a problem with a podcast app as he launches a new podcast of his own, Friday Night Stripes, and wants to deploy his show on Overcast. The issue? Don is not an iOS user and cannot find a way to sign into the Overcast website, which . . . disappoints . . . him. As a happy iOS user, Randy doesn't feel Don's pain and congratulates Marco Arment on making millions of dollars while also ticking off Android folks.

Don and Randy get back from a couple weeks of trips and projects and discuss a grab-bag of subjects of things they've worked on or learned.

Gregg Pollack, an online tutorial creator and investor in the Vue.js community, talks about his decision to invest in Vue.js and a new front-end open source project. He also shares suggestions for creating tutorials and explains why CTOs might choose Vue JS among other frameworks.

We speak with Renee Lahoff, content editor for Moms Can: Code, who began a career years ago as a game developer, left the industry to start a family, and found that a return to the business wasn't as difficult as expected. Topics covered: Unity, Game Jam, Teaching Code Online, and Unix/Terminal Tutorials

We discuss the inevitable issue of bosses, owners, managers, and clients not listening to every bit of advice we offer up. From ignoring the frustration, the psychological reaction, and avoiding a passive-aggressive response, to the maturation of our process and quitting of the pointing fingers and getting stuff done. We talk about why every decision doesn't need to come from you. But never forget: We told you so!

Jesse Weigel talks about being a self-taught developer, how he got started live-streaming his code on FreeCodeCamp and YouTube, and how creating a coding community makes him a better developer.