
ABA Journal: Legal Rebels
The ABA Journal Legal Rebels Podcast features men and women who are remaking the legal profession and highlights the pioneers who are changing the way law is practiced and setting the standards that will guide the profession in the future.
Latest episodes

Jun 12, 2019 • 29min
Avvo founder Mark Britton unwinds as he thinks about next step
Mark Britton, who founded and sold the online attorney ratings site Avvo, is taking a break. This helps with creativity but does cause him some discomfort. After his years of making money from attorneys on his site, he has some business development advice for the profession—zero in on groups of people who might hire you and figure out how they want to be spoken to, he tells the ABA Journal's Stephanie Francis Ward. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1 and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.

May 15, 2019 • 27min
David Van Zandt has made a career out of touching third rails in higher ed
When David Van Zandt became dean of what is now Northwestern University's Pritzker School of Law in 1995, he faced a steep learning curve, he tells the ABA Journal's Jason Tashea. But he had a good sense of the demands on recent graduates and lawyers. He also took on faculty hiring and tenure–a third rail in higher education–by hiring those for tenure track positions with not only JDs, but PhDs. Named an ABA Journal Legal Rebel in 2009, Van Zandt is now the president of the New School in New York. Whether grappling with political issues of the day or an oppositional faculty, Van Zandt has continually forged ahead for the changes he believes in. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1 and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.

Apr 17, 2019 • 18min
Nonprofit law pioneer applauds 'low bono' growth
Before they were buzzwords, Luz Herrera was a pioneer in the world of "low bono" practice, nonprofit law firms and legal incubators. In this episode of the ABA Journal's Legal Rebels Podcast, Herrera speaks with Angela Morris about how a low-bono practice can enable a lawyer to balance the desire to help people with making a living. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1 and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.

Mar 13, 2019 • 32min
Jeff Carr continues his fight against billable hours
Jeff Carr has been on a 40-year path of improving lawyer efficiency and effectiveness. "There's an old saying that if you pay for service by the hour, you buy hours and not service," he says. "And I still believe that very much." In this episode of the Legal Rebels Podcast, Carr speaks with ABA Journal reporter Jason Tashea about why he came out of retirement, and how his principle of the Three Es calculated the value of legal services to clients. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1 and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.

Feb 13, 2019 • 23min
Leading advocate for diversity in legal industry hasn't seen much progress in 10 years
In the 10 years since Emery K. Harlan, co-founder of the National Association of Minority & Women Owned Law Firms, was featured as an ABA Journal Legal Rebel, he says little has changed for diversity in the profession. "I think it's stayed about the same," Harlan tells the ABA Journal's Stephanie Francis Ward. "The lesson we can take from diversity and inclusion is that there needs to be vigilance. There can never be a point where we can say we've achieved all there is to achieve. I think this year's [Am Law] partnership classes is an indicator of that." Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1 and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.

Jan 16, 2019 • 30min
Beating the drum for change
When Ralph Baxter joined the inaugural class of Legal Rebels in 2009, he was the CEO and chairman of Orrick Herrington & Sutcliffe. Just a year into the biggest recession since the Great Depression, he caught the ABA Journal’s attention through his initiatives that took Orrick from a domestic, California-based firm to an international heavyweight while navigating economic turbulence. Since leaving the firm in 2013—after 23 years as chairman–he has gone on to consult with law firms looking to improve their business and service models, sit on the board of LegalZoom and run for the U.S. House of Representatives as a Democrat from West Virginia in 2018. In this episode, he speaks with the ABA Journal’s Jason Tashea about where the profession has been and where he thinks it’s headed. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1 and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.

Dec 12, 2018 • 18min
Young lawyers can be technophobes too
Many lawyers are reluctant to new adopt legal technology, says Monica Goyal, who developed platforms including My Legal Briefcase, which helps parties in the Canadian small claims courts, and Aluvion Law, which uses automation to cut legal services costs for small businesses. "We think young lawyers are on Facebook, Twitter, they're using computers, and that somehow they will be more willing to try and experiment with new technology. I've found that's not the case," Goyal tells the ABA Journal's Stephanie Francis Ward in this episode of the Legal Rebels Podcast. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1 and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.

Nov 14, 2018 • 17min
Make room for chatbots at your firm, LawDroid founder says
Chatbots have a place in a law office because they can handle busy work that eats up precious time in a lawyer’s day, says LawDroid founder Tom Martin in this episode of the ABA Journal’s Legal Rebels Podcast. By wiping out such mundane tasks, it frees up time for meaningful human interactions between lawyer and client that no machine can master, he tells host Angela Morris. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1 and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.

Oct 17, 2018 • 23min
Could 80 percent of cases be resolved through online dispute resolution?
Perhaps in five to seven years, as Colin Rule sees it, half of U.S. citizens who file court cases will have access to online dispute resolution software walking them step by step through their matters, resolving up to 80 percent of cases. Rule, a nonlawyer mediator, is vice president for online dispute resolution at Tyler Technologies. In this episode of the ABA Journal’s Legal Rebels Podcast, Rule speaks with Angela Morris about the possibilities–and pitfalls–for this technology. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1.

Sep 12, 2018 • 17min
Legal writing pro is helping teach AI to draft contracts
Ken Adams has brought his contract expertise to LegalSifter, a Pittsburgh artificial intelligence startup. The 2009 Legal Rebel and author of “A Manual of Style for Contract Drafting” sat down to discuss his new venture with the ABA Journal’s Jason Taschea. Adams says LegalSifter is a system built with human expertise to address the fact that many customers are doing the same tasks when dealing with contracts. It’s a system that will excel at flagging issues that keep coming up, and he thinks the technology will be sophisticated enough to flag the issues for any one user. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1.
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